Question:

I was diagnosed with asthma about 8 weeks ago.  I am 21 and have never had a problem like this–in fact I always had amazing lung capacity b/c I run cross-country.  This past august I started to get a cough

Have you changed where you live or anyting just before you had problems. Looking back I can see I had mild problems with asthma all my life just not bad enough to cause problems until I got old, fat and spending too much time in an irriatating enviornment. Gordon Gordon Couger Stillwater OK. www.couger.com/gcouger

Response:

I was diagnosed with asthma about 8 weeks ago.  I am 21 and have never had a problem like this–in fact I always had amazing lung capacity b/c I run cross-country. cut

it’s not uncommon…take a look at the famous people with asthma thread to see how many great athletes are/were asthmatic eric

Response:

I was diagnosed with asthma about 8 weeks ago.  I am 21 and have never had a problem like this–in fact I always had amazing lung capacity b/c I run cross-country.  This past august I started to get a cough accompanied by pains in my back.  The first week in September is when I started getting breathlessness. Iwas better for about 10 days and then it started again–but this time worse.  I was diagnosed with a sinus infecton and put on prednisone (for the 3rd time) but it seems to be not working–at least to me.But I just went to the doctor and my PFT showed that it had improved–thought only slightly.    My question is, if this is in fact only inflamation due to asthma, then wouldn’t the prednisone have fixed this.  Is it possible that it is something else?  I’m supposed to go get chest x-rays and I’m wondering what this will or will not show.  If anyone could help me I would e most grateful!!

 What inhalers are you on?  Is the doctor only giving you prednisone? If so, WHY!!!  Is this doctor a pulmonary specialist?  Why isn’t he giving you an inhaled steroid such as FloVent?   Sue Official Secretary of OSGSL Dogs think they’re human Cats think they’re God

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed with asthma about 8 weeks ago.  I am 21 and have never had a problem like this–in fact I always had amazing lung capacity b/c I run cross-country.  This past august I started to get a cough accompanied by pains in my back.  The first week in September is when I started getting breathlessness. Iwas better for about 10 days and then it started again–but this time worse.  I was diagnosed with a sinus infecton and put on prednisone (for the 3rd time) but it seems to be not working–at least to me.But I just went to the doctor and my PFT showed that it had improved–thought only slightly.     My question is, if this is in fact only inflamation due to asthma, then wouldn’t the prednisone have fixed this.  Is it possible that it is something else?  I’m supposed to go get chest x-rays and I’m wondering what this will or will not show.  If anyone could help me I would e most grateful!!

Hmmm. I had something like this happen to me. Came down with bronchitis, got better, bronchitis reoccured and I ended up in ER with perennial asthma (before had seasonal asthma) Apparently the bronchitis caused lung damage worsening my asthma. So I suspect you may have bronchitis, usually caused by a virus, so antibiotics don’t usually help. Bronchitis can take several months to run its course. Note that the use of prednisone should be limited as it has many bad side effects when taken orally. A much better form for asthmatics is inhaled steroids, which results in a much lower dose since it goes directly to the lungs. The 2 best steroid inhalers are Pulmicort and Flovent. You should also be using Ventolin inhaler. In severe exacerbations of asthma, a burst dose of prednisone may be needed; 40-60 mg for 3-10 days. Prednisone is usually very effective in this use. Bronchitis links: http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/URI_MF.html URI (Colds) &  Acute Bronchitis ‘94, NJC http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0979.html QUESTIONS ABOUT BRONCHITIS Ellis

Response:

I was diagnosed with asthma about 8 weeks ago.  I am 21 and have never had a problem like this–in fact I always had amazing lung capacity b/c I run cross-country.  This past august I started to get a cough accompanied by pains in my back.  The first week in September is when I started getting breathlessness. Iwas better for about 10 days and then it started again–but this time worse.  I was diagnosed with a sinus infecton and put on prednisone (for the 3rd time) but it seems to be not working–at least to me.But I just went to the doctor and my PFT showed that it had improved–thought only slightly.     My question is, if this is in fact only inflamation due to asthma, then wouldn’t the prednisone have fixed this.  Is it possible that it is something else?  I’m supposed to go get chest x-rays and I’m wondering what this will or will not show.  If anyone could help me I would e most grateful!!

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. SR

Response:

"eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks.

I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

A .jpg would be nice Heyco,thanks.I promise to buy the book too,as the new band I’m in will help to pay for it SR [email acebassatntlworlddotcom]

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "eadg" wrote… Anybody have the notation to Marvin’s masterpiece laying around? No tab thanks. I’ve got it in the "Standing In The Shadow Of Motown" book. I’ll send you a scan (*.jpg ok?) if you promise to go and buy the book (not from me *g*); it’s really essential reading for every bassist. Heyko — http://www.virtual-volume.com/artist/1st_take_allstars http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/318/dancing_fools.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/158/heyko_glicher.html

Response:

Question:

My left lung is the troublesome one, too.  Sometimes I feel like I’m not getting any air into it. –Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only know what the All Holy Geisinger Medical Center tells me! Which at times doesn’t seem like good advice, eh? Like do they know why every winter my son’s left lung swells to the point that it isn’t functioning? Oh no! Just the left one mind you.  Oh well, what can I do except believe every word they tell me. I will tell my son’s doctor your story, if it is allright with you? Thank You, Brandy

Response:

I first discovered I had exercise induced asthma at 38 yrs going to the doctor with what he thought was the flu and I had accepted over a couple of months as who knows, getting older,  but I believed it to be asthma. He gave me inhalers and after 2 months of not being able to function, I asked for Accolate.  At that time I was so bad that I couldn’t believe I would have a normal life again.  After 6 weeks (much longer than I read it should take)  I finally felt normal.  Accolate had worked for me and I went about 4 years without using inhalers unless I did alot of exercise.  I have gone through a few periods of problems, certain periods of being over weight or stress but otherwise I cannot believe how much Accolate changed my life.  2x a day and it works well for alot of people but be sure to use it for longer than the the directions or what you read because if I gave up after a month I would not have known it had worked for me.  The 2X day makes more sense for control of a problem but some people cannot remember to take 2X day.   For me it is no problem…Good Luck, Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

I only know what the All Holy Geisinger Medical Center tells me! Which at times doesn’t seem like good advice, eh? Like do they know why every winter my son’s left lung swells to the point that it isn’t functioning? Oh no! Just the left one mind you.  Oh well, what can I do except believe every word they tell me. I will tell my son’s doctor your story, if it is allright with you? Thank You, Brandy

Response:

My doctor pescribed a Tilade inhaler for my exercise induced asthma.  You might ask your doctor about it.  As far as needing it for the rest of you life, there is currently no cure for asthma, only management.  Ceresse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

I only know what the All Holy Geisinger Medical Center tells me! Which at times doesn’t seem like good advice, eh? Like do they know why every winter my son’s left lung swells to the point that it isn’t functioning? Oh no! Just the left one mind you.  Oh well, what can I do except believe every word they tell me. I will tell my son’s doctor your story, if it is allright with you? Thank You, Brandy

Yes, please feel free to tell the story.  It is important for physicians to realize that medication can be helpful, but it may depend on the patient and situation.  Making broad claims can sometimes be misleading.  Good luck with that and with your son’s problem — that one sounds scary. Is the Geisinger Medical Center in Pennsylvania?  Northeastern part? If so, my parents have used it, too.  It has a big name in that region.

Response:

I take both Flovent and Singulair, and both have helped immensely, especially with exercise.  But I still do have to take at least one puff of my Albuterol before exercise, but I don’t have any problems after that.  It used to be that I had to take 2 puffs before, during, and after.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

That is where the Geisinger is. It is HUGE.

Response:

I just realized I was having vivid dreams — probably caused by Advair. Thanks for mentioning this, because I hadn’t made the connection before. I was mini-golfing outside in the very cool air today and didn’t cough or feel short of breath even once, so Advair is certainly working for me. –Jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S- I tried only the inhaler when exercising, but I had to keep using more and more.  Dangerous and not recommended. I complained to my allergist and he had me try Singulair.  I’m in the 2/3 group for which Singulair is effective.  I am very lucky.  I can now run, often without using an inhaler before.  A miracle for me. I recommend trying Singulair or Accolate.  If they work (and there is no guarantee), they will really make your life better and exercise more fun.  Singulair has no side effects in me.  Some people have reported vivid dreaming and some other symptoms. Talk to your doctor.

Response:

   You won’t know ’til you try it, will you?

Response:

Since then I’ve been mountain biking at much higher speeds and I rarely touch my Albuterol anymore. It for all practical purposes eliminates the exercise induced component of my Asthma. It makes you hyper at first, but that diminishes over time. I also take Claritin. Caritin has been a break-through medication for me and I’d put Serevent in that category too. At least so far. Al

Advair diskus contains both flovent and serevent(in a powdered form which is inhaled.)  Severent inhalors gave me bad headaches. But your right, it doesn’t make you gittery. kurt

Response:

I’ve been on it for a week now and have not noticed any significant results. Like you, I’m an avid exerciser. I’ve had Asthma since age 4 and I’m 62. I managed to get by with Albuterol until recently. The stress of mountain biking had me overdosing on the stuff. No bad affects, but I knew I was taking too much. So I did a WEB search and found Serevent. It’s a slow release medication and it acts like Albuterol does. You take 2 puffs in the morning and two in the evening. Since then I’ve been mountain biking at much higher speeds and I rarely touch my Albuterol anymore. It for all practical purposes eliminates the exercise induced component of my Asthma. It makes you hyper at first, but that diminishes over time. My Dr put me on Singulair and Azmacort too as apparently you need to be on anti inflammatory medication as well as the Albuterol and the Serevent. I also take Claritin. Caritin has been a break-through medication for me and I’d put Serevent in that category too. At least so far. Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

If you are allergic to dairy products do not take singulair, it contains lactose. sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S- I tried only the inhaler when exercising, but I had to keep using more and more.  Dangerous and not recommended. I complained to my allergist and he had me try Singulair.  I’m in the 2/3 group for which Singulair is effective.  I am very lucky.  I can now run, often without using an inhaler before.  A miracle for me. I recommend trying Singulair or Accolate.  If they work (and there is no guarantee), they will really make your life better and exercise more fun.  Singulair has no side effects in me.  Some people have reported vivid dreaming and some other symptoms. Talk to your doctor.

Response:

From what my doctor has told me Singulair will not work for Exercise-Induced asthma. Hope this helps! Brandy

Tell your doctor it works for me.  For two years now I run 4 miles in the morning (~ 8 1/2 min/mi).  Before Singulair I couldn’t run that far or that fast with an inhaler.  Sometimes I couldn’t finish the first mile.  Never had that happen after I started Singulair.  I rarely use my inhaler, too.  It can help, but everyone is different.

Response:

From what my doctor has told me Singulair will not work for Exercise-Induced asthma. Hope this helps! Brandy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading here about Singulair and Accolate (sp?).  My doctor and I figured out I had asthma only about 18 months ago as turned 45 years old, and it’s been an ongoing process of education for me so far. My asthma is bearable without any medication under most circumstances save exercise, and I’m an avid exerciser.  Since I discovered Claritin (I’m allergic to just about everything environmental – dust, mold, pollen, etc.) and an Alburterol inhaler, the quality of my life has improved immensely.  But I’ve found that I really need to take two puff of my inhaler before any exercise (I do go at it hard) and that means taking two puffs of the inhaler once a day for the rest of my life.  For the last 18 months I’ve saved using the inhaler for only my hard exercise effort or really humid weather but I’ve found, as I become more sensitive to how things work in my body, my breathing is impaired during any exercise, even easy exercise – the tightening in my chest begins after 10-15 minutes if I’m only going at it easily. Should I ask my doctor about a pill instead of an inhaler?  Right now, I use the inhaler before I go out running or cycling and it makes all the difference in the world – I can finish at the pace at which I started and it’s my legs, and not my lungs, that limit what I can do. Many thanks in advance. -S-

I tried only the inhaler when exercising, but I had to keep using more and more.  Dangerous and not recommended.   I complained to my allergist and he had me try Singulair.  I’m in the 2/3 group for which Singulair is effective.  I am very lucky.  I can now run, often without using an inhaler before.  A miracle for me. I recommend trying Singulair or Accolate.  If they work (and there is no guarantee), they will really make your life better and exercise more fun.  Singulair has no side effects in me.  Some people have reported vivid dreaming and some other symptoms. Talk to your doctor.

Response:

Question:

My  12 year old son was the same way, our first Dr. had this kids on 5 different things, 3 and 3 times a day – no adult would want to do that, so why should I expect a 12 year old to?  We changed Drs. last fall.  I explained to him the hassle of getting Aaron to take his meds.  We are now on just Pulmicort and Rhinocort once a day with saline nose spray a few times a day and Claritin as needed. what a difference in compliance!  I don’t pester anymore, life is much nicer in our household – no more crabby mom and dad and a kid who actually takes his meds on schedule.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a new inhaler and if it isn’t pretty much empty when it should be, then I know he’s not been taking his meds.  His doctor is very good about discussing the need for taking meds on a regular basis.  I think part of the problem is that since his asthma is in good control (the good part) he tends to ignore the importance of preventative meds. Good luck in your campaign to quit smoking!  It’s a tough battle (I quit in 1998) but well worth it! Patrice I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Glad to see I’m not alone on this.  True, even adults don’t like to take meds all the time…let alone so many and frequently.  Why should a kid? Regardless how intelligent and responsible he is….DS is still only 12. The Family Dr and the Allergist didn’t lecture him as the Pulmonologist did. Basicially, they let him know they were glad he was out of the hospital and okay now…and hopefully he has learned why needs to take his meds unless he wants to experience a close encounter again. Sally Avery

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a

new

Response:

I believe that as he begins to take his meds as he should, eventually we may be able to cut some things down….hopefully.  Thanks for the message.  It helps to know others have same problems. Sally Aver

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My  12 year old son was the same way, our first Dr. had this kids on 5 different things, 3 and 3 times a day – no adult would want to do that, so why should I expect a 12 year old to?  We changed Drs. last fall.  I

Response:

The most important part is your not smoking.   Hard! Hard! Hard! to do and I wish only you the best and may your willpower be strong enough to overcome the addiction.  I was very happy 19 years ago when I quit cold turkey. I had a nightmare about being in a hospital and the Doc telling me I had emphysema.  I woke the next day and have not smoked since, however; this last year my doc made my dream come true (50% FEV1).  I feel that by quitting when I did at 33 that I am much better off with my lungs that had I not. Good Luck and keep the faith!!! Tim Washington State

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!

You do have to watch these kids.When they have something chronic like asthma, I think they just want to try and ignore it sometimes. My son was like that . I put my daughter’s meds out for her even though she is 16 so she can’t "forget". The scary thing is I have to watch to see that she doesn’t decide to take an extra dose of something when she feels she isn’t getting relief. This has happened before(luckily not harmful) and I never would have dreamed she would be so careless. Hopefully now she does understand the seriousness of this.

Response:

I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a new inhaler and if it isn’t pretty much empty when it should be, then I know he’s not been taking his meds.  His doctor is very good about discussing the need for taking meds on a regular basis.  I think part of the problem is that since his asthma is in good control (the good part) he tends to ignore the importance of preventative meds. Good luck in your campaign to quit smoking!  It’s a tough battle (I quit in 1998) but well worth it! Patrice

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Question:

        I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day.         Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive.   Then, came the night.         Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?"             These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven.           Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something.   It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here.             I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line.         Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day. Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive. Then, came the night. Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?" These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven.   Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something. It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here. I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line. Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

If you punch in "effexor" on yahoo, you will get some links to sites that might offer you some help on xr withdrawal. There is an anti-nausia drug reported to help some patients ease off this drug more effectively. If you have found anymore help for withdrawal, please let us know. More and more people are reporting this same difficulty of going through withdrawal "hell" from effexor xr and have had to return taking it again just to function. Wyeth, the manufacturer knows about this and have posted more info on their site about tapering off this med. Hope this helps. Thanx Steveb

Response:

I’ve had the same experience.  But I have decided to stay on Effexor because it is the best AD out there for my type of depression. — John Lundquist —-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day. Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive. Then, came the night. Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?" These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven. Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something. It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here. I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line. Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

Response:

I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day. Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive.   Then, came the night. Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that…

Other people have reported "shocks" when withdrawing from Effexor and other antidepressants.  I quit Effexor XR 150mg cold turkey 1.5 weeks ago because my blood pressure was dangerously high.  So far I have not experienced ANY withdrawal symptoms.  My blood pressure is a bit lower but it may be because I also laid off most of the caffeine.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day.    Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive.   Then, came the night.    Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?"        These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven.      Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something.   It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here.        I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line.    Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

I was on Effexor XR 150mg for over a year, and suffered no memorable withdrawal symptoms when I d/c’ed.  Of course, I did taper off rather than going cold turkey, so maybe that helped.  Over a year later, I had another run-in with your friend and mine, the big "D", and now I’m on Zoloft 100mg.  From my personal experience, I would recommend either of these ADs to anyone, but would also suggest that they follow their doc’s instructions carefully. Andy

Response:

        Alright guys, I guess I’ve got a lot to think about.  Thanks for your input. -Jon

Response:

in general when stopping medication cold turkey one should expect withdrawal symptoms i have heard a lot of complaints from people who have stopped taking their medication abruptly…. however the simple solution to this is to not stop taking your medication abruptly if anyone has tapered off and still found themselves unable to escape severe withdrawal symptoms, i would like to hear it

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day. Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive. Then, came the night. Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?" These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven. Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something. It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here. I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line. Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

Response:

I tapered off Effexor XR with what seemed to be an entirely reasonably schedule, from 225 mg/day to 150 for a week, 75 for a week, 37.5 for a week, then half of that for a few days.  Have been experiencing all the symptoms mentioned below ever since, about 2 weeks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in general when stopping medication cold turkey one should expect withdrawal symptoms i have heard a lot of complaints from people who have stopped taking their medication abruptly…. however the simple solution to this is to not stop taking your medication abruptly if anyone has tapered off and still found themselves unable to escape severe withdrawal symptoms, i would like to hear it I’ve been on Effexor XR for a little over a month now.  I started with three days at 30-odd mg and then eleven days at 75mg, and have been at 150mg for the two weeks or so after that.  For shits and giggles, I decided not to take my fat pillie for just one day. Well, I made it through my day without feeling too shabby.  I learned how to drive a manual transmission and was otherwise productive. Then, came the night. Every time I fell asleep, I’d get this strong feeling that an electrical pulse was being sent into my back and neck.  I’d fall asleep, feel like I was shocked a few times, then wake up and ask myself, "What the hell was that?" These weren’t mild sensations.  Rather, it felt like the work of a cheap stun-gun or one of those electric weight-loss belts cranked up to eleven. Now, when my friend had told me he went through some bad times coming off of Effexor, I hadn’t imagined anything like this.  I’ve never had such a strong and violent response from simply NOT taking something. It seems especially odd because I’ve only been on the stuff for a month and change.  But now that I’ve read more about Effexor, I know it can only get worse from here. I don’t have a point really, and I don’t have a moral.  I have a definite problem with depression, and I need something to help me operate on a socially functional level, but now I’m a little scared of what the future has in store for me if I ever, heaven forbid, go longer than one day without my fix.  I think I ought to force myself off of this drug ASAP and save myself from a possibly much wackier and even more extreme withdrawal process months or years down the line. Oh well, at least it doesn’t make me impotent, right? -Jon

Response:

okay i do feel bad for you… my doc told me to take clonazepam… and it worked wonders maybe you should ask your doc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tapered off Effexor XR with what seemed to be an entirely reasonably schedule, from 225 mg/day to 150 for a week, 75 for a week, 37.5 for a week, then half of that for a few days.  Have been experiencing all the symptoms mentioned below ever since, about 2 weeks.

Response:

Question:

…from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS.   Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it.   To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage.   I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections.   I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded.   Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live.   I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive.     I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her."   No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

Hi Patricia.. I dont know how long ago you posted but people here do now take seriously the side and after effects of medications.. Many here suffer from such and are dealing with them.. Off the bat I have to say whatever you think.. your post is intelligent..  coherent and extremely articulate..not at all as you imagine it to be Gemini does still post here and I am sure will respond. there are many here who have had or are having similar experiences so you dont have to feel so alone .. It is usenet. so you could just ignore the occasional scienos under the beds post. Im sorry you are struggling with such problems and fears but you are by no means on your own. regards, Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

Dear Patricia, I have a background in writing — I have also up to this past June 2001 been on a variety of psychiatric drugs… such as Lithium , Seroquel, Tompamax and Carbamazepine.  I did find taking this combination of cocktail… to be rather disturbing in respect to my language and cognitive abilities.  When attempts were made to speak — often I had problems bringing out the exact wordage I wanted to use. However since June, I have gradually taken myself off of all of the above medications and as of tomorrow will be going back onto just 100mg of Topamax, I have otherwise found myself to better concentrate since being off of the above mentioned cocktail combination. In respect to your message here.  I had found no difficulty in understanding what you were trying to express…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Hi Patricia:     I suffer a lot of the *brain damage* descriptions you mention.  These are quite normal for persons suffering from depression.  I’ve taken every type of med there is and had ECTs.  I’m quite treatment resistant. Currently, I’m taking Parnate and Topamax.  Topamax does leave me *looking for that word* you describe.  This present combination is becoming more and more ineffective and will abandon it shortly and they are damaging my liver. But, sure I walk around feeling brain damaged.  For 3 years now – this time. Three years the last time also.  I’m told by my pdoc, I’m such a lovely candidate for recurring episodes of major depression.  I hope each episode they come up with newer and new and safer meds, huh?     Having ECTs has lead to a lot of comments from people referring to the fact that *hey, I bet you are brain damaged*.  I’ve never taken alcohol or rec drugs, and I often wonder how many of those people making statements like that to me can claim the same.  ha-ha.     I have days where I talk and forget what I’m talking about it while I’m talking about it.  So I just don’t talk.  I’m alone usually, so it does not matter.  I often go somewhere and can not remember why I’m there.  Upsetting event, because this will cause the usual panic and anxiety attack.     I’ve now entered the *zone* where I just don’t care really.  I have lost who I was and do not know who I can be.  I am constantly doubtful that I can contribute intelligently to a conversation with anyone in this group.  I believe depression the disease, wears out your brain.  If you are fortunate enough to find a compatible medication with your chemistry – viola – you become well and all the ugly symptoms you speak of will go unnoticed.  So will mine.     I’ve tried – Tricyclics (sp? – duh), Lithium, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil (MAOI), Wellbutrin+Celexa, Parnate(MAOI)+Topamax(MS).     MAOIs do work for me, but dosage must be kept low due to liver problems. So why bother now?  I’m sure there are more we could chuck in there.     For me, a common side effect with everything (except MAOIs) was that I had to go to extremely high doses to get any effect and even that would wear out – but I would get all the side effects.  In a nutshell, I took ADs to get ugly side effects and no relief from major depression.     I often think that my existence is for what?  To live like a terrorized animal in a cage with my eyes open so wide that I don’t see anything? Noises so loud I don’t hear anything one thing?  How can live like this? And to know that ***IF*** this can be finally, after 3 years put under control, it is just going to return.     I have the age old question, why am I here?  What was my purpose?  I’ve have only one reason.  I brought the most wonderful son into the world who will be good and kind to all people.  A special person who a suffered a lot more than he should have already.  A natural peacekeeper. Take Care Sorry for my rambles Carrie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself.

Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it…

Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. so do a  goggle search using  P.A.N.E.S  will produce one or more of the articles on it for you.. I think I know how scared you must be. (I am)

I’m very scared. I just don’t know how much damage it has done, and since I’m in my mid-thirties, will this effect multiply as I lose more cells due to aging? This whole thing is freaking me out. I been trying out and getting some relief, with dietary changes… then supplementing big time with a bunch of vitamins..etc.  I am now  looking into idea a gluten intolerance or food intolerance of some kind made it so..I didnt metabolize meds like NORM,  and they got delivered to my brain in a toxic fashion..for me.

What kind of vitamins do you take? Is it helping? You mention gluten intolerance.. do you mean MSG and soy products. I read somewhere that they can also have an impact on the brain. Holistic healing…research on my part, is ongoing  big time…researching chelation,  YOGA supposed to help,  BREATHING improving circulation, anything….  However I just breached the tip of the iceberg in those areas… SSRIS are vascocontricters,  maybe prolonged use makes it remain constricted unless you do a lot of shit to open up airways.. why I am looking into ways of opening up breathing so more oxygen to brain.. might dissipate a little of this problem Only thing helped me in years…alternate remedies.alll  .one by one adding up to improvements..

Thanks for posting. I would be very interested in what kinds of remedies specifically you’re using.   Its Jan…mid January  and the first one in a decade I wasnt on a med, where I didnt sink into clinicla depression, thanks to what I done so far.

That’s good. Depression is the worst evil, and if you can overcome that to some degree then you’ve succeeded. I was having a panic attack recently, and someone suggested I use this alternate breathing technique rather than call in for zanax, and IT stopped the growing panic,  dead.in a matter of hours..after I begun it. So I am hopeful…I can improve some fo the problems  via diet, exercise and knowlege of holistic,  living..and then living more holistically…

Thanks for sharing your hope. BTW, I’ll be checking this newsgroup on a regular basis (been a while since posting but I remember yours and Mike’s posts) and if you have time could you share some things that have worked for you the most cognitively speaking? I’m very interested. Gingko Biloba is something I’m considering now, but not sure about the long term effects (at least it is natural!)  - Patricia

Response:

Dear Patricia, I have a background in writing — I have also up to this past June 2001 been on a variety of psychiatric drugs… such as Lithium , Seroquel, Tompamax and Carbamazepine.  I did find taking this combination of cocktail… to be rather disturbing in respect to my language and cognitive abilities.  When attempts were made to speak — often I had problems bringing out the exact wordage I wanted to use.

Did you mean speaking vs. writing? I’m finding a problem with speaking even more than writing- at least on paper the previous thought is written down, so that is the crutch I use to recall my previous train of thought and continue it further. However since June, I have gradually taken myself off of all of the above medications and as of tomorrow will be going back onto just 100mg of Topamax, I have otherwise found myself to better concentrate since being off of the above mentioned cocktail combination.

How long were you on the other meds (excluding Topomax)? In respect to your message here.  I had found no difficulty in understanding what you were trying to express….

Same here in regards to your post.   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia Hi Patricia:    I suffer a lot of the *brain damage* descriptions you mention.  These are quite normal for persons suffering from depression.  I’ve taken every type of med there is and had ECTs.  I’m quite treatment resistant. Currently, I’m taking Parnate and Topamax.  Topamax does leave me *looking for that word* you describe.  

You are one of many people who have describe word-finding difficulties while on psychotropics. I’m not sure exactly what Topamax is or does, but I do notice the same effect while on the meds, and after quitting they seem to have left a lasting imprint. This present combination is becoming more and more ineffective and will abandon it shortly and they are damaging my liver. But, sure I walk around feeling brain damaged.  For 3 years now – this time. Three years the last time also.  I’m told by my pdoc, I’m such a lovely candidate for recurring episodes of major depression.  I hope each episode they come up with newer and new and safer meds, huh?    Having ECTs has lead to a lot of comments from people referring to the fact that *hey, I bet you are brain damaged*.  I’ve never taken alcohol or rec drugs, and I often wonder how many of those people making statements like that to me can claim the same.  ha-ha.

That’s interesting about alcohol – I often wonder whether the brain damage would have been less being an alcoholic for a few years. How do you feel the ECT affected you?    I have days where I talk and forget what I’m talking about it while I’m talking about it.  So I just don’t talk.  

Same here. At work people are joking around and I can’t even say a single sentence without stumbling. Often when I’m talking I find myself out on a limb- I forget where I’m headed with the thought. So yes, I’ve found being forgetful can reduce the confidence level quite a bit. I’m alone usually, so it does not matter.  

Me too. I often go somewhere and can not remember why I’m there.  Upsetting event, because this will cause the usual panic and anxiety attack.    I’ve now entered the *zone* where I just don’t care really.  I have lost who I was and do not know who I can be.  

Same here.  I have lost who I was too, and the hardest thing I’ve been dealing with is how to adjust to this new persona. I really feel for your apathy state.. I have the same feeling. Most of the time my mind is just a blank. I am constantly doubtful that I can contribute intelligently to a conversation with anyone in this group.  

You sound intelligent to me, although I have no idea what your previous level was. I know the feelings of doubt though, and the need to just withdraw and retreat from other people. I have about 0% the confidence level I had before the bouts with the SSRIs, and that includes a new feeling that I don’t come across warm or caring enough. It’s as if something in my brain that regulates emotion got eroded somehow. believe depression the disease, wears out your brain.

It does, depression too can damage the brain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are fortunate enough to find a compatible medication with your chemistry – viola – you become well and all the ugly symptoms you speak of will go unnoticed.  So will mine.    I’ve tried – Tricyclics (sp? – duh), Lithium, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil (MAOI), Wellbutrin+Celexa, Parnate(MAOI)+Topamax(MS).    MAOIs do work for me, but dosage must be kept low due to liver problems. So why bother now?  I’m sure there are more we could chuck in there.    For me, a common side effect with everything (except MAOIs) was that I had to go to

… read more »

Response:

Thanks Bob.   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia.. I dont know how long ago you posted but people here do now take seriously the side and after effects of medications.. Many here suffer from such and are dealing with them.. Off the bat I have to say whatever you think.. your post is intelligent.. coherent and extremely articulate..not at all as you imagine it to be Gemini does still post here and I am sure will respond. there are many here who have had or are having similar experiences so you dont have to feel so alone .. It is usenet. so you could just ignore the occasional scienos under the beds post. Im sorry you are struggling with such problems and fears but you are by no means on your own. regards, Bob …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself. Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I don’t know.  I liken this problem to one I have regards colors on my computer monitor.  It is capable of , and supposed to be able to use 256 colors, but I have always only been able to get 16 colors! I am never without words, like my monitor is never without color  BUT..not always the precise word, or right color…and with such a limited number offered up to chose from  when articulating, I find my description is always much harsher than words

Me too. I find I have that problem frequently, like not wanting to seem to "black and white" in my thinking or too simplistic. But my arsenal of vocabulary is so limited that I end up choosing words that communicate a very caricaturistic picture. But I notice that you express yourself in a very interesting way. You seem to break some of the "rules" on purpose and your posts seem richer and more flavorful than most. I would have used or like my screen colors  are harsher lacking access to the full array and color schemes my old monitor had. Sometimes while seeking to find the words to articulate a thought, an image will flash through my mind instead, revealing my meaning.    people then wind up being told they behave like altar boys, and ghouls, and snakes and sharks and other animals,  especially reptiles a lot.  LOL Their actually the lucky ones…as the ones I got no picture shortcut to articulate my meanings get these rambling replies…where  not finding the right words to make the point..have to settle for my suggesting what my point is..LOL

Sometimes images are very powerful, but I see what you mean. At this point however, my brain is at a juncture where even images don’t appear anymore.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it… Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. Disinhibition,  where you  have no qualms about doing or saying in public what you normally be too inhibited to do or say, due to social conventions or your own personal code when normal. .

That’s what I thought. It sounds almost like a frontal lobotomy effect. I have the rest of what you wrote saved.,   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You wrote somewhere that people will not admit that what you write doesn’t make sense. Well it makes sense to me..   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself. Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I don’t know.  I liken this problem to one I have regards colors on my computer monitor.  It is capable of , and supposed to be able to use 256 colors, but I have always only been able to get 16 colors! If you relate to my analogy at all…my computer must be missing  the Drivers..that allow it to display 256 colors its capable of  rather than only the 16 it now does…. . same with my brain…the capacity is there…same with the knowledge,  all there…stored..I am sure. So I  must be missing drivers needed for complete search  or in the search engine itself sustained damage…so only so much of what I know is presented during retrieval.. forcing me to choose among much more limited range of words and info to express my ideas, thoughts and beliefs…. Regards this.kind of problem…I like what Scott Hamilton has to say…."only disability in life is a bad attitude"  . I am never without words, like my monitor is never without color  BUT..not always the precise word, or right color…and with such a limited number offered up to chose from  when articulating, I find my description is always much harsher than words I would have used or like my screen colors  are harsher lacking access to the full array and color schemes my old monitor had. Sometimes while seeking to find the words to articulate a thought, an image will flash through my mind instead, revealing my meaning.    people then wind up being told they behave like altar boys, and ghouls, and snakes and sharks and other animals,  especially reptiles a lot.  LOL Their actually the lucky ones…as the ones I got no picture shortcut to articulate my meanings get these rambling replies…where  not finding the right words to make the point..have to settle for my suggesting what my point is..LOL I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it… Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. Disinhibition,  where you  have no qualms about doing or saying in public what you normally be too inhibited to do or say, due to social conventions or your own personal code when normal. . so do a  goggle search using  P.A.N.E.S  will produce one or more of the articles on it for you.. I think I know how scared you must be. (I am) I’m very scared. I just don’t know how much damage it has done, and since I’m in my mid-thirties, will this effect multiply as I lose more cells due to aging? This whole thing is freaking me out. I been trying out and getting some relief, with dietary changes… then supplementing big time with a bunch of vitamins..etc.  I am now looking into idea a gluten intolerance or food intolerance of some kind made it so..I didnt metabolize meds like NORM,  and they got delivered to my brain in a toxic fashion..for me. What kind of vitamins do you take? Is it helping?  You mention gluten intolerance.. do you mean MSG and soy products. I read somewhere that they can also have an impact on the brain. Holistic healing…research on my part, is ongoing  big time…researching chelation,  YOGA supposed to help,  BREATHING improving circulation, anything….  However I just breached the tip of the iceberg in those areas… SSRIS are vascocontricters,  maybe prolonged use makes it remain constricted unless you do a lot of shit to open up airways.. why I am looking into ways of opening up breathing so more oxygen to brain.. might dissipate a little of this problem Only thing helped me in years…alternate remedies.alll  .one by one adding up to improvements.. Thanks for posting. I would be very interested in what kinds of remedies specifically you’re using. First I changed my diet, to a low carb, no sugar one. and that helped quite a bit. Then I took Evening Primrose, Omega 3, Calcium, Vitamin E…all recommended for PMS..plus this creme  Progestacare  made from Mexican Yam..containing Natural Progesteron,  and that helped some. Then I began walking, and that helped some. Then I added Vitamin B-100 complex and that helped two problems BIGTIME, the PMS and the depression. Drastic improvement within about 10 days of taking B-100. NO more horrific PMS since began taking B-100 about 4-5 months ago.  HUMONgous help to me. . Then I added vitamin A.with no noticable effect. I have Hashimotos Hypothyroidism, an autoimmune disorder incited disease and was reading how one can protect autoimmune system, with things like Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, Tyrosine, and Vitamin C..so I added them and it was like night and day for me regards reaction to my environment… HELPED big time. Before taking them, my life was so awful.  I was so extraordinarily sensitive to my environment, what was going on outsdie me, had my full attention, because heightened sensitivity made me easily . annoyed and irritated and always always so easiluy inflamed .  Felt like I had no inner centeredness…so reactive to my environment never had the time or inner peace to be inside myself,  and no ability whatsoever to think through my reactions…just always reacting, with emotion, leading the way, not other way round.. Toward the end my body was reacting to everything outside as a threat, and increase my production of adrenalin…so constant state of fight response prevailed…..and in that state  blind by emotion, become irrational, stop thinking, stop articulating,  ADD big problem in that state.. Since I began taking the second batch too…I stopped reacting to most things…able to maintain my calm, not easily flamed and inflamed..feel much more centered,  in control, even keeled, not feeling  threatened by every little thing,  and with no more of that awful autoimmune response, blinding me with Feelings, cant think through…things way better regards this other problem. Doent improve the problme itself…but least its not compounded by awful stress response.makes it 5 times worse, regards articulation,  ADD, memory, word retrieval etc. Recently, it came to my attention alll my problems altogether are symptomatic of celiac disease…or gluten intolerance..which is an inability to metabloze some grains,   wheat, barley, oats..etc.. Upon that discovery, I changed my diet to gluten free….one…which I like better, cause except for breads, I never have like glutens much any way, but surre missed carb high foods like potatos..etc. Helped some too. We been having some discussion here of the role oxygen deprivation plays in depression.  Then i was feeling panicy about something, and getting paniced over feeling panicky when someone told me about the alt. nostril breathing..and it TOOK care of that problem.  Encouraged, I decided to see if some more experiements in this are  produce some improvement. Up to then I been walking, regular.  But, wanting to experiement some…I bought a bike..trying to, do something might cause rapid breathing… and being winded,  (here I having problems finding the words)  just doing something make my systme work harder and faster…you know where you get that exhilirated feeling from activity…and I find following more rigorous excersise like that… big improvement, though temporary with this problem we been discussing.  but immediately following rigorous exercise I have more clarity of thought,  more ability to articulate, less ADD…soon turns back to shit… but least I know how I can clear my mind up some…then MAKE important phone calls..or appointments for business matters. Lately I been busy, busy, busy, not much time for usenet, or on line activities…and I have notices it doesnt get so bad for me until I sit down at computer which has me  wondering if I am one of those people effected by the various emissions from computers..such I .NEED to house this thing..so NOT impaired by emission while using it!  LOL Do you happne to have to

… read more »

Response:

Question:

Hi Everyone! I’m still reading most posts, but my messages take three to nine hours to get to Google, so it is a bit discouraging to bother answering or joining in. (But, I still love you guys and feel I know you!!!) So, anyway, I have been on Aminopyridine for several weeks; I have a fine neuro who prescribed this not-yeeeet FDA approved drug.  His biggest admonition was to not O.D as it could cause a gran mal seizure. (Ahem, I have been careful as hell, believe me!) The stuff is great!  I have more energy, don’t get wasted as quickly, and can STAND for long periods without the spaghetti leg exhaustion, where I have to sit down in the middle of preparing dinner. Also, my hearing has improved, as well as my eyesight.  I am also taking Copaxone (yucky two-shoes), and Paxil, which has been increased from 20 to 60 mg. (Turns out I wasn’t depressed, I was anxious!) I am sharing this with anyone who might be able to use this info, as well as wanting to know if anyone knows anything about this stuff.  I have looked at the archives- not much on there, and the internet itself. Oh, also, I had to go to a compounding pharmacy, as the normies don’t sell it at this point. Soooo…   Whaddaya think??? Diane of Seattle, still waiting for Eliz. to return to the hot-tub (Don’t worry, Eliz.,I am a man-lover!)

Response:

I think you should take this stuff with a little ice cream. Jack P.S. I hope you do not have a pet bird. EXTOXNET PIP – 4-AMINOPYRIDINEE X T O X N E T Extension Toxicology Network Pesticide Information Profiles A Pesticide Information Project of Cooperative Extension Offices of Cornell University, Oregon State University, the University of Idaho, and the University of California at Davis and the Institute for Environmental Toxicology, Michigan State University. Major support and funding was provided by the USDA/Extension Service/National Agricultural Pesticide Impact Assessment Program. EXTOXNET primary files maintained and archived at Oregon State University Revised June 1996 4-Aminopyridine Trade and Other Names: Common names include 4-AP, P-aminopyridine, Gamma-aminopyridine, Amino-4-pyridine. Trade names include Avitroland and Avitrol 200. Regulatory Status: Based on its potential hazard to fish and non-target birds, some 4-aminopyridine formulations are classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as Restricted Use Pesticides (RUPs). RUPs may be purchased and used only by certified applicators. Grain bait formulations of 4-aminopyridine are in toxicity class III and must bear the signal word CAUTION and powder concentrate formulations are in toxicity class I and must bear the signal word DANGER. Chemical Class: pyridine compound Introduction: 4-Aminopyridine, a pyridine compound, is an extremely effective bird poison. It is one of the most prominent avicides. It is registered with the EPA for use against red-winged blackbirds, blackbirds in agricultural fields, grackles, pigeons, and sparrows around public buildings, and various birds around livestock feeding pens. Avitrol repels birds by poisoning a few members of a flock, causing them to become hyperactive. Their distress calls signal other birds to leave the site. Only a small number of birds need to be affected to cause alarm in the rest of the flock. After one alarming exposure, birds will usually not return to treated areas. Avitrol is available as grain baits or as a powder concentrate. Formulation: Avitrol is available as grain baits or as a powder concentrate. Toxicological Effects: Acute toxicity: 4-Aminopyridine is highly toxic to mammals. The central nervous system is strongly excited by 4-aminopyridine. Based on observations with 2-aminopyridine, a similar compound, individuals with a history of convulsive disorders may be at an increased risk from exposure to 4-aminopyridine [30,31]. The principal action of 4-aminopyridine in the body is to encourage message-carrying (transmitter) substances to be released throughout the nervous system, overstimulating it [68]. While intended strictly for use as a bird repellent, accidental ingestion of as little as 60 mg has caused severe poisoning in adult humans [68]. It is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract [8]. Poisonings are characterized by thirst, nausea, dizziness, weakness, and intense sweating, followed by impairment of normal mental functioning (toxic psychosis), lack of muscular coordination, tremors, labored breathing, and generalized seizures [167]. Symptoms of Avitrol poisoning in rats, dogs, and horses include over-production of saliva, tendency to become over-stimulated, and trembling, which can progress to convulsions. Death can result from respiratory arrest or heart failure [23,30]. Skin exposure to Avitrol may lead to systemic intoxication or general overall poisoning [30]. Avitrol may contribute to the excessive formation of a substance called methemoglobin. Methemoglobin is similar to hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying part of the blood, except that it cannot carry oxygen. When there is excess methemoglobin in the blood, oxygen cannot be transported and blood eventually becomes oxygen depleted, resulting in the condition methemoglobinemia. The LD50 for 4-aminopyridine is 20 to 29 mg/kg in rats, and is 3.7 mg/kg in dogs [8,167]. It is readily absorbed through the skin [23]. The dermal LD50 is 326 mg/kg in rabbits [23,30]. 4-Aminopyridine is an eye irritant. Inflammation of the iris and conjunctivitis were noted in the eyes of albino rabbits 1 hour after 10 mg of 4-aminopyridine hydrochloride were applied. These symptoms disappeared after 7 days [167]. Chronic toxicity: High dietary doses (2 to 3.25 mg/kg/day) caused increased brain weight. Brain appearance remained normal [167]. However, since dietary intake is assumed to be negligible, and because significant repeated exposure is not expected to occur, EPA has not required long-term toxicity studies of 4-aminopyridine [167]. Reproductive effects: No data are currently available. Teratogenic effects: No data are currently available. Mutagenic effects: No data are currently available. Carcinogenic effects: No data are currently available. Organ toxicity: Chronic exposure to 4-aminopyridine can cause the breakdown of proper liver and brain functioning [8]. No effects were found in the blood and urine of rats and dogs. Fate in humans and animals: 4-Aminopyridine is rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream from the gastrointestinal tract [8]. It is readily broken down, or metabolized, in the liver into removable compounds excreted in urine [30]. After intravenous and oral doses were given to humans, 90.6% and 88.5% was excreted in the urine [167]. It does not to concentrate or accumulate in skin. Birds killed with Aritrol are not poisonous to predators [8,30]. Ecological Effects: Effects on birds: 4-Aminopyridine is highly toxic to birds. The 8-day dietary LC50 is 447 ppm in Japanese quail, 316 ppm in mourning doves, and 722 ppm in mallard ducks [167]. Avian reproduction studies suggest ingestion of sublethal amounts of 4-aminopyridine is unlikely to cause negative effects on birds’ reproductive systems [8]. There is a large potential for exposure of non-target, particularly grain-feeding birds. Migratory birds, finches, and other small seed-feeding birds may ingest lethal doses that are applied to corn and sunflower fields. Effects on aquatic organisms: 4-Aminopyridine is moderately toxic to warmwater fish. Fish become increasingly sensitive with increased exposure [167]. The LC50 ranges from 4 mg/L (in soft water) to 2.43 mg/L (in hard water) in channel catfish. The LC50 in is 3.40 mg/L (in soft water) to 3.20 mg/L (hard water) in bluegill [37]. Effects on other organisms: Endangered species may be adversely affected by 4-aminopyridine [167]. There is low or nonexistent potential for secondary poisoning in animals such as cats, dogs, or birds of prey that may feed upon birds killed by Avitrol [167]. Environmental Fate: Breakdown in soil and groundwater: 4-Aminopyridine is readily adsorbed to soil particles and is highly persistent [167]. It is broken down slowly by soil microorganisms. It is more likely to remain near the soil surface where most microbial degradation tends to occur [167]. The half-life of 4-aminopyridine in soil with oxygen ranges from 3 months in clay soil to 32 months in sandy-loam soils. The rate at which 4-aminopyridine is metabolized in aerobic soil increases with greater amounts of organic matter [167]. Studies indicate that 4-aminopyridine is relatively immobile in soils. It is not expected to be present in groundwater as a result of its use on land [167]. Breakdown in water: 4-Aminopyridine is not expected to be present in surface water as a result of land application of formulated products [167]. Breakdown in vegetation: Available plant metabolism data on sorghum indicate that some breakdown of 4-aminopyridine does occur, with three breakdown products; however, no metabolites were found in corn. 4-Aminopyridine is absorbed and moved from one part of a plant to another to varying degrees, depending on the manner in which it is applied. Plant uptake of 4-AP is not expected to be significant in corn and sunflowers [167]. Physical Properties: Appearance: Technical 4-aminopyridine is a white crystalline solid that contains about 98% active ingredient [8]. Chemical Name: 4-aminopyridine [31] CAS Number: 504-24-5 Molecular Weight: 94.13 Water Solubility: Soluble [31] Solubility in Other Solvents: s.s. in benzene and ether [31] Melting Point: 158 C [31] Vapor Pressure: Not Available Partition Coefficient: Not Available Adsorption Coefficient: Not Available Exposure Guidelines: ADI: Not Available MCL: Not Available RfD: 0.00002 mg/kg/day [13] PEL: Not Available HA: Not Available TLV: Not Available Basic Manufacturer: Avitrol Corporation 7644 East 46th St. Tulsa, OK 74145 Phone: 918-622-7763 Emergency: Not Available References: References for the information in this PIP can be found in Reference List Number 10 DISCLAIMER: The information in this profile does not in any way replace or supersede the information on the pesticide product labeling or other regulatory requirements. Please refer to the pesticide product labeling.

Response:

In article <c5085648.0111032140.44fd…@posting.google.com

,

 Dianekkomar…@msn.com (Diane Komaroff) wrote: {snip}

I am sharing this with anyone who might be able to use this info, as well as wanting to know if anyone knows anything about this stuff.  I have looked at the archives- not much on there, and the internet itself.

{snip} Hi Diane, I too, take 4-Aminopyridine (3 x 10 mg) (you MUST not take too much!) with considerable success (was able to stop taking Baclofen). I also take amantadine   (2 x 100 mg) and am on 40 mg/day of fluoxetine (generic Prozac) – I had some MS ’caused’ depression… My perscription is from my doctor at the MS Centre of UBC; they also use a compounding farmacy and the drug is not covered by my insurance…. The following was written by From: TOM HOGARTH <thoga…@ibm.net

and appeared on this newsgroup, on 13 Oct 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

more from my files Subj:  4-AP Date:  96-08-29 15:17:27 EDT From:  MD QA on MS Following is the reply to a question posted to Ask MDs About MS. —Question— I have had a very good experience with 4-AP to date including increased stamina and mobility.  In what book or journal can I find more information such as: (1) will the effect change?; (2) what governs maximum dosage;? (3) are there contraindications with certain other familiar MS drugs? —Answer— 4-aminopyridine (or 4-AP) is a compound that blocks channels in nerve fibers that allow the passage of potassium ions into and out of the nerves. By blocking potassium entry into the nerves the speed of nerve conduction is increased, especially in nerves that have lost myelin. It is this increase in the speed of nerve conduction impulses that is responsible for the beneficial effects of 4-AP. Several double-blind, placebo controlled trials have demonstrated that 4-AP can provide continuous benefit to persons with MS, particularly in areas related to visual function, ambulation, and fatigue. Unfortunately there are two drawbacks to this medicine, one minor, the other major. First, and minor, is that 4-AP is relatively short acting and thus must be taken three or more times per day. The second, major difficulty, is that there are very serious side effects with higher doses of 4-AP. At blood levels above 100 ng/ml patients can experience generalized convulsions, confusion, dizziness, spasms, and tingling. Because 4-AP can cause seizures, it should be used with great caution in patients on medicines that increase the risk of seizures. These include tricyclic antidepressants, such as amitriptyline, which are frequently used in persons with MS to control pain, bladder urgency, and insomnia. Some recent references about 4-AP are given below: 1. Bever CT, Jr. (1994):The current status of studies of aminopyridines in patients with multiple sclerosis. [Review]. Annals of Neurology 36:S118-21. 2. Bever CT, Jr., Young D, Anderson PA, et al. (1994):The effects of 4-aminopyridine in multiple sclerosis patients: results of a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, concentration-controlled, crossover trial. Neurology 44:1054-9. 3. Pickett TA, Enns R. (1996):Atypical presentation of 4-aminopyridine overdose. Annals of Emergency Medicine 27:382-5. 4. Polman CH, Bertelsmann FW, van LAC, Koetsier JC. (1994):4-aminopyridine in the treatment of patients with multiple sclerosis. Long-term efficacy and safety. Archives of Neurology 51:292-6. 5. Smits RC, Emmen HH, Bertelsmann FW, Kulig BM, van LAC, Polman CH. (1994):The effects of 4-aminopyridine on cognitive function in patients with multiple sclerosis: a pilot study. Neurology 44:1701-5. 6.Stork CM, Hoffman RS. (1994):Characterization of 4-aminopyridine in overdose. Journal of Toxicology – Clinical Toxicology 32:583-7. 7.Van Diemen HA, Polman CH, Koetsier JC, Van Loenen AC, Nauta JJ, Bertelsmann FW. (1993):4-Aminopyridine in patients with multiple sclerosis: dosage and serum level related to efficacy and safety. Clinical Neuropharmacology 16:195-204. 8. van Diemen HA, Polman CH, van Dongen TM, et al. (1992):The effect of 4-aminopyridine on clinical signs in multiple sclerosis: a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, cross-over study. Annals of Neurology

— Take Care James (#11) http://www.geocities.com/hjbsam/theory.html

Response:

I used to use 4-AP, but quit because (at least according to Ed Hill (ed hill)) it inhibits the normal production of myelin. It’s short term symptom relief at long term cost. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Diane Komaroff wrote:

Hi Everyone! I’m still reading most posts, but my messages take three to nine hours to get to Google, so it is a bit discouraging to bother answering or joining in. (But, I still love you guys and feel I know you!!!) So, anyway, I have been on Aminopyridine for several weeks; I have a fine neuro who prescribed this not-yeeeet FDA approved drug.  His biggest admonition was to not O.D as it could cause a gran mal seizure. (Ahem, I have been careful as hell, believe me!) The stuff is great!  I have more energy, don’t get wasted as quickly, and can STAND for long periods without the spaghetti leg exhaustion, where I have to sit down in the middle of preparing dinner. Also, my hearing has improved, as well as my eyesight.  I am also taking Copaxone (yucky two-shoes), and Paxil, which has been increased from 20 to 60 mg. (Turns out I wasn’t depressed, I was anxious!) I am sharing this with anyone who might be able to use this info, as well as wanting to know if anyone knows anything about this stuff.  I have looked at the archives- not much on there, and the internet itself. Oh, also, I had to go to a compounding pharmacy, as the normies don’t sell it at this point. Soooo…   Whaddaya think??? Diane of Seattle, still waiting for Eliz. to return to the hot-tub (Don’t worry, Eliz.,I am a man-lover!)

Response:

Diane, Kelli has taken 4-AP for several years and swears by the stuff. It’s cheap, but, yes it’s a little inconvenient to find a pharmacy that will compound it for you.  And, yes, you need to be careful in your dosage. Some time ago there was an FDA threat to take it away, which was eventually tabled, I believe.  I haven’t heard anything about it since. Kelli’s pharmacist said he was confident that it would remain available, but other than that, I know nothing about its future. It was discussed actively in this group, but I can’t remember how long ago it was – maybe a year ago, even??  I don’t know how far back the archives on Google go, but you might look back a ways and see what you can find. I’m glad it works for you.  As long as you are aware of the risks, it can be a big help.     Good luck,   – Lynne There are several others in the group who take it, too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Diane Komaroff wrote:

Hi Everyone! I’m still reading most posts, but my messages take three to nine hours to get to Google, so it is a bit discouraging to bother answering or joining in. (But, I still love you guys and feel I know you!!!) So, anyway, I have been on Aminopyridine for several weeks; I have a fine neuro who prescribed this not-yeeeet FDA approved drug.  His biggest admonition was to not O.D as it could cause a gran mal seizure. (Ahem, I have been careful as hell, believe me!) The stuff is great!  I have more energy, don’t get wasted as quickly, and can STAND for long periods without the spaghetti leg exhaustion, where I have to sit down in the middle of preparing dinner. Also, my hearing has improved, as well as my eyesight.  I am also taking Copaxone (yucky two-shoes), and Paxil, which has been increased from 20 to 60 mg. (Turns out I wasn’t depressed, I was anxious!) I am sharing this with anyone who might be able to use this info, as well as wanting to know if anyone knows anything about this stuff.  I have looked at the archives- not much on there, and the internet itself. Oh, also, I had to go to a compounding pharmacy, as the normies don’t sell it at this point. Soooo…   Whaddaya think??? Diane of Seattle, still waiting for Eliz. to return to the hot-tub (Don’t worry, Eliz.,I am a man-lover!)

— Lynne Davis Coordinator of Administrative Services Casey Computer Center, Baylor University Lynne_Da…@baylor.edu

Response:

Hey jack, Can you tell me what this stuff is in plain english, or something very close to it? chirp chirp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -jack n dalton wrote:

Besides killing birds 4AP has been shown to be effective in treating some SYMPTOMS of MS. Jack Probably the most common problems people who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis (MS) face on a daily basis are weakness and fatigue. Also, many patients are faced with visual problems and with cognitive or concentration effects.  Very few of the treatments available have much effect on these situations.  However, clinical research has shown that many patients can benefit from a little-known medication known as 4-Aminopyridine.  This research, which began in 1984, includes the results of a long-term safety and effectiveness study published in The Archives of Neurology Journal in 1994. What is 4-Aminopyridine? 4-Aminopyridine (4-AP) is known as a "potassium channel blocker". This means that it can block the flow of potassium ions in nerve cells, which results in a more effective nerve impulse traveling down toward the muscles. As you probably know, the poor nerve impulses in patients with MS is the cause of most of the symptoms of the disease.  The improved nerve conduction provided by the 4-AP means that the muscles have a "louder signal" to tell them when to work.  Thus, stronger muscle contractions improve strength and fatigue in many patients.  However, for reasons not fully understood, the 4-AP does not work in all patients.  One study referred to above indicates that 75% of patients with MS report a significant clinical response, and that 80% to 90% of these people will benefit from long-term adminstration of the medication.  Other studies report a lower response rate, around 30% to 50%. A related compound, 3-4 diaminopyridine, is used in another neurological disease known as Lambert-Eaton Syndrome.  It is not commonly used in Multiple Sclerosis. Why has my doctor not told me of this option? 4-AP is not a patentable medication, since it was discovered many years before its effects on MS were known.  Many doctors are aware of its existence, but are not aware that it is available.  The medication is available as the raw ingredient, and a compounding pharmacy can put it into capsules based on the dosage determined by weight of the patient and the response to 4-AP.  Some doctors prefer to use an immediate release capsule exclusively, while others will change their patients to a sustained release form after a person

Question:

As others have mentioned, I’d sure give Zoloft a try. I, too, have been on all of it. Until I started Zoloft, I had been in the hospital 5 times. It’s now been 7 years since my last admission and have only missed a handful of days from work because of depression. Zoloft changed my life. Just remember that when you first start the med, you may have some bothersome side affects but they do end(at least for me). Stick with it and you will find the results well-worth it. Best of luck. Emily

Response:

I noticed someone suggested Lamictal in one of the posts.  I am currently on Lamictal, along with Wellbutrin and Serax at night.  As for the Lamictal, I didn’t really notice much by itself at first, but the obvious thing I noticed about Lamictal is that I didn’t experience any side affects!  None. Now, when they started to add the others, of course I experienced some side affects.  They just increased my dose of Lamictal to 125mg, and again, no side effects.  The hope is that they just might have needed a little bit of a higher dose for it to kick in. So far, so good, but … well, it is probably way to soon. But again, the nice factor about Lamictal for me was that I experienced NO side affects.  What is the harm in trying if there are no side effects? There is a rash that you have to watch for, but that will just mean you have to stop… What is a rash that will go away compared to .. headaches, insomnia, being tired all the time, constipation, …. you get the idea.. Pamela

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Thanks for mentioning it, but I had 8 ECTs while in hospital 1-1/2 years ago, over a 3-week period.  They just did not work.  I crashed in a bad way after the 8th. Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie)))))))))))))))))

My bad Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Cheers? Carrie I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Well, at least you’ve put a smiley face next to your name, I just started Remeron and it’s going very well for me. I’ve often wondered if people experience anti dep "burn out" after a length of time on one drug, which then means switching to another.  I’ve  plowed through a fair number of different anti deps.    My last successful one was dosage made me very dizzy.   I also took Celexa with the Effexor at times. I also like that word "abyss"…….it describes my past year’s depression recurrence exactly.  However, I also have some issues that eventually caused incredible anger, and everytime I had a setback (concerning the issues) I would have uncontrollable episodes of rage to the point where I was obsessed with revenge…..the kind that is associated with a knife.  So the Remeron kinda calmed me down, and also I’ve been on a regimen of Xanax, but am now ramping down on that. Carrie, maybe I misunderstood your post, but just why in the heck is your pdoc having you sit in limbo for awhile? Feel free to contact me if you need to rant…… controversial or otherwise. Jeanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<< Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Try an SSRI or Effexor augmented with an atypical anti-psychotic like Seroquel or Zyprexa. Can be very effective even in cases of non psychotic treatment resistant depression. Another thing you could try is lithium or lamictal augmentation of an antidepressant…some people swear by lithium augmentation and they arent bipolar in the least. Have you had your thyroid checked anytime in the last couple years? That could be causing med poopout, quite common in females. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??

Nah, probably a waste of time if it was ineffective the first time around. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Wow.. Sounds like the shit is hitting the fan, so sorry!

        Yea, it does come to think of it.  Life a a total stress fracture right now. Have you tried Zoloft? It "Prozacian" (technical, eh?), it just acts on a different receptor. It pooped on me but worked well, and fast. Tricyclics _may_ work, but if they didn’t work the first time around, I wouldn’t bet the farm on them. I’m sure you know hubby just doesn’t understand, but it would be nice if they did. Tell him how you feel when he says things like that. I’m not trying to start WW III, but it may help. And I know it’s hard, but try not to feel you’re imposing. Please consider I’m divorced before trying it.

I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. <LectureDO stay in touch with your pdoc, she may have plans for a new med, and taking something could "mess up THE plan". If you’re feeling, well, that abyss feeling, don’t hesitate to call her.</end lecture Wish I could say something that would take some pain away! Write if you need to rant. Hugs, Sharon

The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Have you tried desipramine?  I haven’t see you post that you tried that one….it’s worked really well for me.  just a thought….

No, I’ve not desipramine.  But I will be print off suggestions made here and talking to the pdoc about meds. Ulnar nerve entrapment at the elbow….I have that in my left arm…they can transpose the nerve to the front of the elbow to take the pressure off the nerve and eliminate the numbness.  I haven’t had the surgery yet, I’m trying not  to have it done, I just compensate for not feeling in those fingers……   Get to a neuro if you haven’t and have the ncv done on both arms and find out exactly where the compression is.  They can splint both arms with a brace that has a little air bladder that takes pressure off the ulnar nerve and hopefully some of the numbness goes away..but you need to see a neuro…typing is hard when you can’t feel all your fingers….. Deborah

wow, amazing!  That is exactly what it is.  I’ve got a neuro appt in Oct. I’ve also got some spinal X-ray to do also.  Some thought that my back plays an ugly part.  It will still be a while before any resolution to this little cutie is fixed ) thanks Deborah! Carrie

Response:

Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Question:

First, you should never ever stop taking your meds "cold turkey"  You must be weened off by your doc. I quit taking zoloft after I was in remission and then I started on a downward spiral. I’m back on thank God. I don’t know how long you took them , but it can take up to several months to feel an effect. Regardless, if it is not working, your doc can help you switch to something else. Lia

Response:

I had no side effects with Dothiepin except cotton-mouth. My friend was on mega-doses of Doxepin as well with no major side effects except for yours but he was able to counter it with a fibre supplement. The *tryptyline drugs are some of the older tricyclics, maybe a newer one would work without the problems. Still, getting a doctor to prescibe it can be an issue. I argued with mine about it but she seems sold on the SSRI’s. The point is moot now as I haven’t had anything for months. Regards, Trevor Ida Kern <clooney…@mindspring.com

wrote in message

news:7if9pn$jv4$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Trevor Lampre <tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote in message

> > I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part > > of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics

mentioned much in terms of OCD. Me neither. However, one of the best drugs I have ever taken has been Pamelor (Nortriptyline), which is a tricylic. I slept well and ate well and did

not

obsess. Unfortunately, it’s major side effect was that it prevented me from taking

a

healthy constitutional! I tried everything I could think of to stay on

this

medicine but the side effects overwhelmed me and I had to switch to a

SSRI.

They help, but I loved the Pamelor. Ida

Response:

Trevor Lampre <tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote in message I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD.

Me neither. However, one of the best drugs I have ever taken has been Pamelor (Nortriptyline), which is a tricylic. I slept well and ate well and did not obsess. Unfortunately, it’s major side effect was that it prevented me from taking a healthy constitutional! I tried everything I could think of to stay on this medicine but the side effects overwhelmed me and I had to switch to a SSRI. They help, but I loved the Pamelor. Ida

Response:

hugs wrapped in a hug: ( kbeth (kb…@asan.com) wrote:

: *HUGS* : -kbeth    ) : On Tue, 25 May 1999 01:34:47 GMT, jl…@gte.com wrote: :

:

Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s

:

helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I

:

know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been

:

totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago,

:

too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I

:

really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had

:

some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some

:

reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the

:

depression seems more overwhelming these days).

:

:

My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I

:

*begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ).

:

:

Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do.

:

:

Lisa

— —————————————————— some people say I got no patience. I got lots of patience. I can wait all day for someone else to Brew the Coffee….

Response:

In article <374a0b6…@news.camtech.net.au

, "Trevor Lampre"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote: Zoloft is an antidepressant so in stopping taking it you have exposed yourself to a downhill slide. The Zoloft might not have been helping with the OCD but it probably was helping the depression. The SSRI’s are strange drugs. They are very selective in how they affect different people, what works for one may not work for another. I confounded my GP with my complaints about the side effects of Zoloft, Luvox and Serzone. I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD. Interactions with doctors are just as problematic. Having a sense of trust and rapport with your therapist is important. I had seen two counselors over the years before my current one. They were as thick as two short planks and I didn’t see them for long. You are quite right to stop seeing one you don’t get on with but please make an effort to find a new one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. If the Zoloft wasn’t worsening your OCD but did help with the depression I’d say to stay on it until you get new medical advice. Go and see a GP (or whoever does this sort of thing where you are) and discuss a change of med. If you still had anxiety you might want to add an anxiolytic such as Xanax to the Zoloft mix or perhaps switch to Luvox but discuss it with a doctor first. Switching meds can be hard. You normally have to wait a week or two depending on your dosage levels to get the old drug out of your system before starting a new one and then it takes a couple of weeks for the new one to have an effect. Regards, Trevor <jl…@gte.com wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Additionally, it is said that it takes 2-3 months on the SSRI’s to see OCD relief…I don’t know how long you’ve been on it, but it may pay to stay on if the side effects are not bad, as it is helping your depression now and could very well help your OCD later… — Charles Phipps cphi…@roadhog.com

Response:

Hi it doesn’t sound like a too good idea to me to AND quit the therapist AND the meds at the same time. I have no idea how long you’d been on the Zoloft but it takes long time for SSRI’s to be efficient on OCD symptoms, most people mention at least 10 weeks on the proper dosage… Also it might not be the proper SSRI, it took me three trials before actually finding something (Luvox) that seem to be working. I know how very difficult it all is. If you have OCD you should get in touch with the OCD Foundation (they have a Web site with all kind of infos on how to reach them etc…) and ask them for the adress of a trained CBT therapist near you. I don’t know what your symptms are but talk therapy doesn’t do much for OCD. I have been in talk therapy for over 2 years, even though it has given me some insight on some other problems, it didn’t help at all the OCD. Hang in there, it’s tough but you can get better, Cecile – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jl…@gte.com

wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

Hi Lisa From my personnal experience I know that it takes about 10 weeks for the medication to start working and I know that it seems like forever. Hang in there.  Yes I think that it is very important to find a good therepist.  Make sure they deal with ocd.  Don’t give up because of one person I know there is someone who can help you.  It helped me to chat in support groups and talk to others dealing with the same problems.  You will feel better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and when you do, you will get so much more joy out of life than ever before! Take Care

Response:

Zoloft is an antidepressant so in stopping taking it you have exposed yourself to a downhill slide. The Zoloft might not have been helping with the OCD but it probably was helping the depression. The SSRI’s are strange drugs. They are very selective in how they affect different people, what works for one may not work for another. I confounded my GP with my complaints about the side effects of Zoloft, Luvox and Serzone. I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD. Interactions with doctors are just as problematic. Having a sense of trust and rapport with your therapist is important. I had seen two counselors over the years before my current one. They were as thick as two short planks and I didn’t see them for long. You are quite right to stop seeing one you don’t get on with but please make an effort to find a new one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. If the Zoloft wasn’t worsening your OCD but did help with the depression I’d say to stay on it until you get new medical advice. Go and see a GP (or whoever does this sort of thing where you are) and discuss a change of med. If you still had anxiety you might want to add an anxiolytic such as Xanax to the Zoloft mix or perhaps switch to Luvox but discuss it with a doctor first. Switching meds can be hard. You normally have to wait a week or two depending on your dosage levels to get the old drug out of your system before starting a new one and then it takes a couple of weeks for the new one to have an effect. Regards, Trevor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jl…@gte.com

wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

*HUGS* -kbeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 25 May 1999 01:34:47 GMT, jl…@gte.com wrote:

Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

Question:

Has anybody been on Effexor? I have been on it since November and I have recently figured out it is the cause of the strange symptoms I’ve been having. I have been bothered by mouth ulcers that make eating and drinking almost anything painful. I also get very hot with the least little bit of exertion. And it also was part of the cause of the strange dreams I was having, as well as the dizziness. I think the Effexor along with the Ginko Balboa I was trying did not do well together. Since I stopped taking the Ginko Balboa, neither one has bothered me as bad. Anyway, my question is: has anyone taken Effexor? I need to know how to taper off, because I hear the withdrawl can be bad. I was taking 225mg and have gone down to 150mg, as of two days ago, but am afraid to cut back anymore. I have a job and a family, and I don’t need to hallucinate or be sick right now! If anyone has any advice I’d appreciate it. Michele

Response:

Hi Michelle I was just prescribed this wonder drug ang I was so dizzy and sick to my stomach so I cut my per down to 1/2 a pill twice a day.It was prescribed for neurogenic pain and muscle spasms.I wanted Neurontin but the doc said this had less side effects!As far as I can see,all it is,is an antidepressant.What did you get it prescribed for?225 mg is the maximum dosage.Your doctor really started you off with a bang. What do you think is a better alternative? Carol — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

the smart thing to do is to call your doctor. you shouldnt be looking to non-medical people for such important info! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Be Well, Lisa anti-spam in effect. remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The dope’s that there’s still hope." – Bruce Springsteen @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it while I was waiting for him to call me back. Michele

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it

while I was waiting for him to call me back.

I just quit.  Didn’t suffer for it.  Were there more specific questions you have? Dabrinah

Response:

Question:

Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

Hi Will,         I never had TMJ while taking Zoloft, but I did have other ill effects.  My mother recently did too.  From our experiences, I’d say it’s a pretty good guess that what happened to you may well have been from the drug.  While Zoloft seems to work well for some people, IMO the medical community has a ways to go toward identifying & understanding its range of adverse reactions.  Hope these anecdotes help:         I tried switching from Nardil to Zoloft a few years ago.  Took it for about a month, I think… hard to remember as I was in a complete fog during the entire period.  Anyway, it made me a zombie as well – I felt no trace of humanity in or around me while on it.   It virtually left me unable to *feel* anything at all, or to *think*, for that matter.           It was when I stopped taking it to go back on Nardil, and was waiting the required period for it to clear out of my system, that some really bizarre and frightening symptoms appeared.  I had intense, violent hallucinations that scared the bejeezus out of me   (the *only* hallucinations I’ve ever had, BTW … well, that is if you don’t count the effects of certain substances I ingested in younger days 8- ).  I also was unbelievably anxious during this withdrawal period, which lasted about a week (I think) but felt like an eternity.         My mother, who’s in her 70s, was prescribed Zoloft for depression a month ago by her cardiologist.  She stopped taking it after three weeks because it induced the same zombie effect in her.  She had no withdrawal symptoms at all.  Apparently her depression was transient because it seems to have subsided as well.  Yesterday she felt like getting off the couch and going *out* for the first time since the depression hit.  I took her shopping and she did just fine.         Glad your TMJ and teeth pain stopped.  And I hope you’ve found another med that works better for you.  Take care. Redroad — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

I have heard of this phenomena before, may have been good that you dc’d Zoloft. Randy.

Response:

Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

Response:

Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

S’not weird, if Zoloft is anything like paxil. And they are both SSRIs. I have TMJ (from teeth clenching) and it got, oh, (this is a rough estimate) about a BAZILLION times worse when I started the paxil. My dear (well, sometimes dear) pdoc said it was a not common but not rare side effect. So it sounds like yer pdoc is a quack, OR Zoloft and paxil are different. But I do think they are pretty similar. Ten days really isn’t enough time to see if an AD is going to help, though if your jaw pain was unbearable… And when paxil worked for me, I felt like a zombie until I was put on a theraputic (heigh enough) dose. So if you feel like another go at it would help, there are plenty of ADs to try.  I hope you can find one that works, if it’s what you need. Good good luck, Bizzy Heather, if you were happy every day of your life, you wouldn’t be a human being. You’d be a game show host.         Veronica Sawyer, Heathers

Response:

Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

Usually it takes much longer than 10 days for it to have an effect. I wonder if the teeth-clenching had to do with some sort of sleep disruption from the drug — particularly if you were feeling like a zombie. Mike. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response: