Question:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet,    Most importantly, remember that serevent is not a resuce med…If you are having trouble right now use albuterol.  Serevent is a long term med use it twice a day….say 7a-7p.  Some meds givwe some people nightmares…funny, but I have nightmares if I take my multivitamin before bed!?   Never skip your serevent even if you are feeling good.  This also goes for any inhaled steroids you are taking…Steroids (inhaled) take a couple of weeks to build up in the body…so never skip your inhaled steroids! bill

Response:

I’ve been using Serevent for about 2 years and it’s enabled me to cut out Ventolin almost totally. Initially it gave me cramps in my feet- still does occasionally and I’ve noticed my eyesight has deteriorated (need to use glasses for reading larger print than before) but this may have happened anyway. I would give this drug 9.9 marks out of 10! As someone else mentioned you can use it early (borrow a puff ahead of next dose) if you feel your chest tightening and provided you are resting you will avoid need to use Ventolin as all will be well within 15 mins.

Response:

I’ve used Serevent for around 6 months or so.  I personally think it is wonderful.  I take 2 puffs twice a day.  I used to use 2 inhalers of proventil a month, and now I barely need to use one.   I also take atrovent and proventil 2 puffs, 4 times a day, and flovent 2 puffs twice a day.  It all seems to work pretty good. My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there

(positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

This is a side effect some people have when initially prescribed the maximum dose of 2 puffs twice a day (of the MDI). Some of these people can build up a tolerance for it by starting at a reduced dose, eg 1 puff once/day in the evening. A dry powder form, the Serevent Diskus, has recently been approved by the FDA, expected to be available next year. The DPI form is twice the strength of the MDI form so you use 1 puff twice a day. See http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/97/09/22/glx_y0022_1.html Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I love this stuff!  I will probably only take it during the winter, but it has helped even out my peak flow readings (they used to stay in the green area, but were all over the place, now they are very consistently within a 40 point range), it makes it so I don’t cough when I’m out in cold weather (2 block walk to campus was terrible, and getting from the edge of campus to my classes was worse) and I haven’t had nearly the number of side effects from it as I did from my rescue inhaler (MaxAir).  It’s kind of a pain to do 2 puffs twice a day from 2 different inhalers (I’ve started carrying it all in an insulated lunch bag), but if it means I don’t cough until I choke, I think I’ll put up with it. janet (so there *are* some other people out there named Janet –  I never knew anybody else with my name until about a year ago!)  :)

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I have used Serevent before. It made me shaky for quite a while. Interestingly, the shorter acting Ventolin, a similar drug, does not affect me as badly. For prevention, I an on Flovent, and it lessens my need for bronchodilators like Serevent and Ventolin. Many have good experiences with Serevent, though, so if it works well and has little or no side effects, stick with it. Donald Hellen (Note: Anti-Spam Measure… remove the "1" in front of our address to reply by email.)

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it. The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

Try sticking with the Serevent for a few months.  Some people on this type of medication get over the shakiness after a while; I did (with Brethine, a tablet). — David Matthews, Boston University

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela That which doesn’t break us makes us stronger.

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works very well for me. —                 Read about the new book from Brustas Consulting                     at  http://users.abac.com/pbrustas                 Computer Renaissance  8396 Parkway Drive                      La Mesa, CA  91942  (619) 464-3711

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet, I love my Serevent inhaler!  I have been taking this medicine for a little over a year now, and my asthma has really improved with continued and concientious use (paired with Flovent 110).  I started noticing results in about one month.  I think I  like it so much because I don’t have to take the Proventil four times a day anymore. It was hard for me to meet that dosage and very inconvienient.  As always, pay attention to your own symptoms.  If you don’t notice a change, or if you feel like you are getting worse, call your doctor right away!  Good luck! We are each of us angels with only one wing. And we can only fly embracing each other.                    –Luciano De Creschenzo

Response:

I have used serevent now for nearly 2 years. It is brilliant, it works so well for me. It just enforces what your reliever does but it is active for about 12 hours. The only problem I have is that with the accuhaler you can taste it and it doesn’t taste too good but other than that it is great. I don’t know if you have been told, but it is worth using it before your preventer. Hope this helps. love Hannah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works great for me, 2 puffs twice a day. Initially I had to get my allergist to put in a special request to my HMO 3 years ago to get them to approve it–because of my nocturnal asthma. If I’m going folk dancing in the evening, I often take one of the 2 evening puffs early, it works for exercise too, takes about 15 min to start taking effect. However the max dose is 4 puffs/day, so if I need more bronchodilation, I use Ventolin. The only side effects I noticed, initially I seemed to have nightmares if I used it just before going to bed, but it was OK if I used it at least 2 hr before. After a couple months that phenomenon went away. I also use Vanceril DS 2 pf x2, Intal and TheoDur 200mg x2. I just recently added the TheoDur back in. It seems to give better overall control. Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

Question:

About a week after taking Singular it feels as though I have a lump in my throat.  I’m not sure if this is a side effect so if anybody else has experienced this I’d like to know.  Would it help for my to switch to Accolate. Thanks for any info.

Hopefully it isn’t an abcess like the one that just about killed me.  No reason for it to be an abcess — mine may have been caused by frostbite — but if should you start having severe choking episodes then get to an ER and have it checked out.

Response:

About a week after taking Singular it feels as though I have a lump in my throat.  I’m not sure if this is a side effect so if anybody else has experienced this I’d like to know.  Would it help for my to switch to Accolate. Thanks for any info.

I just started on Sigulair this past week and after 16 months on Accolate I find it MUCH more effective. No lingering tightness, no consistent light wheezing, its wonderful..almost like Theo again.  What are some of the other side effects..(Dr gave me 2 week sample to try) Bill

Response:

About a week after taking Singular it feels as though I have a lump in my throat.  I’m not sure if this is a side effect so if anybody else has experienced this I’d like to know.  Would it help for my to switch to Accolate. Thanks for any info. I have a lump in my throat also.   I thought it was from increasing the

Flovent from 8 puffs of 110 to 8 puffs of 220, so I have been cutting back on the Flovent, I haven’t noticed any changes in the lump.  I did go to the Dr. and she didn’t see anything abnormal in my throat.  Since this is the height of asthma/allergy season here I am reluctant to go off Singulair,  I had rash on my arms with Accolate.  Let me know what you do, if you stop Singulair and the lump goes away.  I hope the lump isn’t anything serious because for now I have decided to learn to live with the it.  Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I found Singulair worked quite well in lessening need forVentolin, but it caused edema, esp. swollen ankles.  I kept with it for about 4 months since doctors denied this as a side effect. (Doesn’t seem so strange to me since the generic name is M. Sodium)…

Montelukast Sodium http://www.merck.com/product/usa/singulair/cns/prescribing_info/descr… l has a chemical formula of C35 H35 Cl N Na O3 S, it has a molecular weight of 608.18 Daltons (one Dalton is approximately the weight of one hydrogen atom).  Sodium has a molecular weight of 23 Daltons.  That means that sodium accounts for 3.78% of the Montelukast total weight (23/608.18=3.78%).  There are 10 mg of Montelukast Sodium in a tablet of Singulair, that means there are 0.378 mg of Sodium in a Singulair tablet (10 mg x 3.78%=0.378 mg). There are 7.3 mg of Sodium in a single Bite Size tortilla chip of a popular name brand.  I’m not an MD but it is hard for me to imagine that 0.387 mg of Sodium is enough to make one’s ankle swell.  Perhaps it is a reaction to the carbohydrate portion of the molecule.

Response:

About a week after taking Singular it feels as though I have a lump in my throat.  I’m not sure if this is a side effect so if anybody else has experienced this I’d like to know.  Would it help for my to switch to Accolate. Thanks for any info.

Response:

I found Singulair worked quite well in lessening need forVentolin, but it caused edema, esp. swollen ankles.  I kept with it for about 4 months since doctors denied this as a side effect. (Doesn’t seem so strange to me since the generic name is M. Sodium)   Finally, I tried going off Singulair twice and each time the swelling went away. I am no longer on Singulair. Accolate did not work for me at all.  Unfortunately, I am running out of things to try. Serevent was a disaster.  Any other really new drugs or techniques? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About a week after taking Singular it feels as though I have a lump in my throat.  I’m not sure if this is a side effect so if anybody else has experienced this I’d like to know.  Would it help for my to switch to Accolate. Thanks for any info.

Response:

Question:

Anyone have any experience with Effexor.  I’ve tried Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin.  None of them work well. Thanx!

See earlier comments. Effexor, although some people have good experiences with it, is not a first choice in treating PAD. Philip

Response:

Anyone have any experience with Effexor.  I’ve tried Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin.  None of them work well. Thanx! See earlier comments. Effexor, although some people have good experiences with it, is not a first choice in treating PAD. Philip

Hi…I have been on Effexor (was on) XR for a month. At first, it seemed to lift a bit of my depression and worry, but after, my anxiety became really bad. I seemed to become almost "hypo-manic", and my sleep was WORSE then it ever had been. I could fall asleep fairly easy, but would wake up VERY early, feeling really "hung-over". I really had alot of hope for this drug, but I guess everbody does <g. Well..back to the drawing board…. Peace… James

Response:

Anyone have any experience with Effexor.  I’ve tried Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin.  None of them work well. Thanx!

Response:

Anyone have any experience with Effexor.  I’ve tried Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin. None of them work well. Thanx!

     I was on venlafaxine (Effexor) for about 3 months.  It worked great for my depression and pain, however the only side effect was sexual dysfunction, so I discontinued it for that reason.  Can’t say it worked on any of my anxiety because I’m on clonazepam (Klonopin) for that, but I know it didn’t cause any increase in anxiety either.  My dosage was 75 mg bid (twice daily).  My dose of clonazepam is really low, almost subtherapeutic, 0.5 mg bid. Good Luck, Chris

Response:

hi all my doc suggested today that i go off clonazepam and start taking effexor as she is not happy with me being on clonazepam for indefinitely.  i have tried many SSRI and was as sick as a dog and had anxiety like 24 hours a day for a long time.  what has your experience of effexor been??? also how long does it take to taper off clonazepam??? thanks a lot kim

Does clonazepam work for you? If so, don’t switch meds but doctors. Effexor is not an SSRI but close enough. *If* you should decide to try Effexor do *not* stop clonazepam at the same time as you risk experiencing both Effexor initial side effects (including worsening of anxiety) and clomazepam withdrawal symptoms. Tapering off of clonazepam takes as long as it takes depending on how high the dose is and how you’ve been taking it. Diminishing the dose with one fourth or less every two weeks or so is a good pace as a rule but YMMV. But once again: if clonazepam works well, why fix something that isn’t broken? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

hi all my doc suggested today that i go off clonazepam and start taking effexor as she is not happy with me being on clonazepam for indefinitely.  i have tried many SSRI and was as sick as a dog and had anxiety like 24 hours a day for a long time.  what has your experience of effexor been??? also how long does it take to taper off clonazepam??? thanks a lot kim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi all my doc suggested today that i go off clonazepam and start taking effexor as she is not happy with me being on clonazepam for indefinitely.  i have tried many SSRI and was as sick as a dog and had anxiety like 24 hours a day for a long time.  what has your experience of effexor been??? also how long does it take to taper off clonazepam??? thanks a lot kim

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is stoopid medicine your doc is a benzophobe and believes that effexor is less addictive or dependency causing then a benzo-it isn’t. It has to be weaned on and weaned off and is not less toxic a compound then clonazepam. If the Klonopin helps you then why tamper with what works-find another doc if possible effexor is a very good medication in more comprehensive in its ability then ssri’s similar to tca’s-in low doses it works well for loads of people-its main side effect is gastrointestinal and increased levels of anxiety similar to the ssri’s I wouldn’t hesitate to use it if it is indicated or in conjunction with klonopin if needed but your doc’s reasoning for using it is downright wrong LM

Response:

I was put on Effexor and it help me as far as the depression, I started on 150 mg and then my doc put me on Clonazepam (klonapin) .5 mg a day half in the morning and half at night. At the same time he increased my Effexor to 225 mg and to be honest I think the Klonapin is helping better because it takes care of my anxiety to a point and without anxiety I am not depressed…….lol I think Effexor works but I am going to talk my doc into lowering the effexor and increasing the klonapin…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For me it helped less with the panic/anxiety part. Had to supplement it with klonopin. It takes about 2-6 weeks to work. Less sexual side effects for me than paxil — "Oh dear, I think you’ll find reality’s on the blink again." — Marvin The Paranoid Android : hi everyone. I need your help . I was on PAXIL CR for a year for panic : attacks but had to be taken off of it cause it was raising my liver : enzyme level too high. So my doctor changed my medication to EFFEXOR. : Does anyone know anything about this medicine? Any bad side effects to : it? How long will it take for it to work? Well any information would be : helpful and much appreciated. Thanks so much. Tony : : : : : :

Response:

I was put on Effexor and it help me as far as the depression, I started on 150 mg and then my doc put me on Clonazepam (klonapin) .5 mg a day half in the morning and half at night. At the same time he increased my Effexor to 225 mg and to be honest I think the Klonapin is helping better because it takes care of my anxiety to a point and without anxiety I am not depressed…….lol I think Effexor works but I am going to talk my doc into lowering the effexor and increasing the klonapin…

keep in mind that the two meds treat different symptoms of anxiety.  the effexor is good for the obsessive worries, "rumination" as my therapist calls it.  the nagging thoughts in the back of your head that won’t leave you alone.  benzos don’t help much with those, but they relieve the physical symptoms, the fear, the dumping of adrenaline, etc.  i think you have a good combo there (i’m on both as well).  :-) -kelly

Response:

hi everyone. I need your help . I was on PAXIL CR for a year for panic attacks but had to be taken off of it cause it was raising my liver enzyme level too high. So my doctor changed my medication to EFFEXOR. Does anyone know anything about this medicine? Any bad side effects to it? How long will it take for it to work? Well any information would be helpful and much appreciated. Thanks so much. Tony

Response:

For me it helped less with the panic/anxiety part. Had to supplement it with klonopin. It takes about 2-6 weeks to work. Less sexual side effects for me than paxil — "Oh dear, I think you’ll find reality’s on the blink again." — Marvin The Paranoid Android

: hi everyone. I need your help . I was on PAXIL CR for a year for panic : attacks but had to be taken off of it cause it was raising my liver : enzyme level too high. So my doctor changed my medication to EFFEXOR. : Does anyone know anything about this medicine? Any bad side effects to : it? How long will it take for it to work? Well any information would be : helpful and much appreciated. Thanks so much. Tony : : : : : :

Response:

Question:

I’d recommend a pill box.  Kmart had one for 4/day for the whole week for $5. As the for malingering bit, you just need to be honest with yourself. If everyday you do your best, then you can’t ask any better and you can be at peace with your conscience.  You can let other people think what they want, because you 1) can’t change other people and 2) don’t need their approval.  (If you have a religious bent, you can subsitute god for conscience.) Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As if I didn’t have enough medicines to forget to take every day <S, I was started on Inderal today.  The official purpose of this was to try to counteract the shakes I get from taking Lithium but I understand it is used as a maintenance med for headaches as well.  Has anyone had any luck with it?  I am on 10 mg twice a day.  Will update y’all as time passes. Also, after about two weeks of phone tag between my PCP’s offices and various other doctors’ offices I finally have an appt. with a neurologist on 7/10.  Hopefully at that time we can figure out for sure whether we’re dealing with migraines, tention headaches, or if I am a hypochondriac mallingering lazy SOB who does not want to work for a living which is what the state unemployment people think I am.  Of course they think everyone who gets unemployment is that way so who knows?

Response:

Hey Ginnie – Today I decided to sleep all day. I sure understand what you are saying here <sniffle Love, Marty

Response:

Heh! …  That conversation happens with me and my internist, too… Sometimes I need the reality check that I’m not conjuring up some of this crap. He laughs when I ask if I’m a hypochondriac.  Then he’ll say how I’m gonna live to be a *very* old lady (meaning my fundamental health – the core stuff). We’re the same age, so maybe I can hold him to that prediction for a long time.  ;-)   But this day-to-day sh… *stuff* is what’s making the journey slow, and a real PITA at times. But if I start stressing and hating my "list" of physical problems, I need to remember (and sometimes he reminds me) that MY list isn’t gonna kill me anytime soon.  Other people dealing with cancer or wasting diseases or horrible injuries, etc., would gladly trade places with me. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just went to the Dr. yesterday.  Because I am dealing with a plethora of both problems that have a defined cause.  As well as symptoms for which they can’t see to find a cause for, I flat out asked him if he thought I was a hypochondriac.  This gave him a really good chuckle.  He said that if I was, I have a real good reason to believe.  He said he has never seen anyone be able to fake blood tests, CAT scans, MRIs and X-rays all at the same time. Don’t worry about what others think.  Only what you feel. Hypochondriac’s know they are hypochondriacs deep down in their hearts.

Response:

As if I didn’t have enough medicines to forget to take every day <S, I was started on Inderal today.  The official purpose of this was to try to counteract the shakes I get from taking Lithium but I understand it is used as a maintenance med for headaches as well.  Has anyone had any luck with it?

I was given inderal LA 3 months ago as a migriane preventative. I have only had 1 bad one since when I might have expected about 6 so I am pleased with it. We all react differently though.  I am on 10 mg twice a day.  Will update y’all as time passes. Also, after about two weeks of phone tag between my PCP’s offices and various other doctors’ offices I finally have an appt. with a neurologist on 7/10.  Hopefully at that time we can figure out for sure whether we’re dealing with migraines, tention headaches, or if I am a hypochondriac mallingering lazy SOB who does not want to work for a living which is what the state unemployment people think I am.  Of course they think everyone who gets unemployment is that way so who knows?

I am over in UK so don’t know your unemployment system or health system. I gather you have to pay for health care though(can someone enlighten me on how this works?) and would imagine you would not hand money over for health care you do not need?

Response:

Hopefully at that time we can figure out for sure whether we’re dealing with migraines, tention headaches, or if I am a hypochondriac mallingering lazy SOB who does not want to work for a living which is what the state unemployment people think I am.  Of course they think everyone who gets unemployment is that way so who knows?

I just went to the Dr. yesterday.  Because I am dealing with a plethora of both problems that have a defined cause.  As well as symptoms for which they can’t see to find a cause for, I flat out asked him if he thought I was a hypochondriac.  This gave him a really good chuckle.  He said that if I was, I have a real good reason to believe.  He said he has never seen anyone be able to fake blood tests, CAT scans, MRIs and X-rays all at the same time. Don’t worry about what others think.  Only what you feel. Hypochondriac’s know they are hypochondriacs deep down in their hearts.

Response:

As if I didn’t have enough medicines to forget to take every day <S, I was started on Inderal today.  The official purpose of this was to try to counteract the shakes I get from taking Lithium but I understand it is used as a maintenance med for headaches as well.  Has anyone had any luck with it?  I am on 10 mg twice a day.  Will update y’all as time passes.

There’s a long-acting formulation called Inderal LA, which is only taken once a day.  That’s a bit more convenient, but some people’s insurance co-pays are higher for the LA version.  Sometimes you want the immediate-release form of a drug to get a more pronounced short-term effect. This may be the case in your case, I don’t know. Inderal LA is a highly highly effective anti-migraine drug for the vast majority of migraine sufferers.  It’s the first preventive medicine I prescribe to migraine patients, and works most of the time.  As the people on this newsgroup are for the most part folks who haven’t gotten easy fixes, it’s probably not got a good track record among the members of this group. Inderal is not just a migraine treatment.  It’s used for lots of other things, among which is "benign essential tremor".  This is not the same as the tremor from Lithium, but I can imagine it working for both.  Yes, please do let us know how it works for you. The usual effective dose for migraine prevention is much higher than the one you’re on.  I don’t know what the usual effective dose is for tremor.  So if you don’t get relief from the tremor at this dose, I’d suggest you not get discouraged.  Your doctor is probably planning to gradually increase the dose, as tolerated. Also, after about two weeks of phone tag between my PCP’s offices and various other doctors’ offices I finally have an appt. with a neurologist on 7/10.

I just saw a neurologist the other day about my headaches.  She was so supportive, and had some excellent suggestions.  I must say, a good bedside manner is everything.  It makes me want to have a better bedside manner myself, in my own practice (I’m a family practitioner).  It’s a truism that being a patient makes one a better doctor. Hopefully at that time we can figure out for sure whether we’re dealing with migraines, tention headaches, or if I am a hypochondriac mallingering lazy SOB who does not want to work for a living which is what the state unemployment people think I am.

Most people in chronic pain don’t want to go to work.  Go figure.  :-)

Response:

As if I didn’t have enough medicines to forget to take every day <S, I was started on Inderal today.  The official purpose of this was to try to counteract the shakes I get from taking Lithium but I understand it is used as a maintenance med for headaches as well.  Has anyone had any luck with it?  I am on 10 mg twice a day.  Will update y’all as time passes. Also, after about two weeks of phone tag between my PCP’s offices and various other doctors’ offices I finally have an appt. with a neurologist on 7/10.  Hopefully at that time we can figure out for sure whether we’re dealing with migraines, tention headaches, or if I am a hypochondriac mallingering lazy SOB who does not want to work for a living which is what the state unemployment people think I am.  Of course they think everyone who gets unemployment is that way so who knows? — "The only thing Republicans have to fear is the lack of fear itself." E. J. Dionne

Response:

Yup. I get real sick and tired of being sick and tired, too.  And the limitations imposed by both the medical problems AND prescription med *effects* are something my pain shrink I talk about a lot.  There’s only so much a person is willing to give up of the person they *were*, before some big acceptance and coping problems crop up. Losing some of your independence and your freedom is tough to take.  There’s a fair amount of grieving that takes place, whether the person realizes it or not. Part of the person dies, in a sense, and that means going through the stages of grief – denial or disbelief, guilt, anger, depression, and acceptance…  I know Kubler-Ross said there were only four stages, but I really think there’s a few more, and that some new incident or setback will send us pin-balling around the other stages, even after we *think* we’ve accepted the loss. And scheduling your life around tests and treatments not only puts constraints on how you live, it actually can force WHERE you live.  I’ve heard of lots of people who’ve had to MOVE to where the best treatment is. And just giving up on some of this stuff?  Yup, I’ve given up – for now – on finding solutions for some things.  Some conditions will just sit there and just BE, without stressing about them.  Another one is just waiting for the technology to improve.  Then I’ll get back to trying to fix that one. And some days?  Some days I just refuse to deal with any of it, and will sleep all day.  Or I’ll cry and cuss out my "list" of crap, and try to get the resentment out of my system, or come here for a rare all-out whiiiiiiiine. Some days, ya just gotta whine. Ginnie

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Question:

Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

hi scattered… i was just as nervous when i started taking effexor but soon came to think of it as a vitamin for my brain… i’m switching to wellbutrin (well, refer to my current post), and am now withdrawing from effexor.  i was on 150mg. a day, i took 1 pill at lunch and 1 before bed… for the past three days i’ve just taken 1 pill a day and i have been waiting for the reactions on withdrawal that i’ve read about… but so far (knock on wood), i’ve had none.  i had a bad day at work and had to go cry for a few minutes – but i can’t tell whether that was because my serotonin levels dropped or just because i was stressed and having a bad day… other than that i haven’t noticed the difference yet.  my doc said i was supposed to taper and be off it within a week, with an overlap of the start of the new antidepressant i’d be taking… which seems fast compared to what i’ve read here about the length of time to come off one drug.  i say relax, and let your body react in its own way… if you’re feeling better then just be grateful for that! unfortunately for me effexor just made me sleep all the time and get forgetful, thus the change. good luck, amelie

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 I was on effexor (375mg) for two years and gradually came off it to go onto another anti depressant.  I had to go ‘cold turkey’ for 2 weeks before going on another drug.  I experienced dizziness and flu like symptoms for a few days, but nothing as bad as coming off cigarettes, so do not worry, some people may experience little or no side effects coming off this medication.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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Scattered. I was on 225mg and it was working fine – after lack of success with four or five other meds. Then some tests came back showing my liver was damaged (fatty liver) and the most likely cause was the Effexor. I came off it over the course of 3 weeks, 150mg week 1, 75mg week 2, 0mg week 3, then on to my new med. The side effects were the worst I have experienced on any of the meds. Severe dizziness, noises in my head, bolts of electric down my arms to my hands, etc. etc. Now, 5 weeks after beginning withdrawal, the above problems are less frequent and much more minor. Now here’s the thing. Despite the problems, I would do it again, in fact if my liver trouble could go away I would go back on the Effexor in an instant. Yes the withdrawal was a bastard, but I got over it. The point is that the Effexor worked. It has given me hope. It has shown me that it is possible for me to climb out of the black hole. At the moment I’m back in the hole and struggling badly, if I hadn’t had that window of normality after trying for so long to find a med that worked, I would give up now (it’s tempting to give up anyway!). If the Effexor is working for you then give thanks and keep on going with it as long as your doc tells you to. Incidentally, I’m assured that though it’s a known problem, the liver thing is rare. Mick.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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Funny thing about taking antidepressants is that I have also started to think of the future, which is something I never did….and I am in my fifties. I always did things on the spur of the moment…spontaneously, which sounds like fun, but the older ya get, the more unstable it becomes to live that way.  I just never could think past a day or week in advance at the most.  It was weird now that I think of it.  Since being on ad’s I can think about the future somewhat and seem less compulsive, but thinking about the future at my age, when all my life I didn’t…..is discombobulating to say the least. Because of my lifestyle of not thinking about the future, I have not been able to work, depression and all…and now that I want to get a job as I am thinking about my future, I am so nervous and unconfident in myself for all the years I just sat around waiting for tomorrow to come.  What a shock, when the future  becomes part of your life.  I identify with you totally.  Deb

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Well, I can tell you now that Effexor has enabled me to get back on an even keel. Having said that, I am on the lowest dose (37.5mg per day), and missing one gives the classic withdrawal, that is: electric bolts, strange vision and confusion. Still, I can live with the daftness of missing one when the bulk of my life is fine. I think I shall have to get a very sharp knife to chop up the tabs into small enough doses to wean off. Good Luck !!! Peter, Bradford, England

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

Look, believe it or not, I do think AD’s can help.  I also strongly believe the SSRI’s are filled with serious problems. That said I suggest that you start therapy, if you have not already if you have continuing situations in your life which get you down, or add stress. Sometimes just a dozen sessions can make a great deal of difference. Don’t worry about the Effexor for a while, say six months.  At the end of the six months reevaluate the situation in your life.  I would suggest that you have both medical and psychological support in place for the withdrawal (which might not even happen for you, everyone is different) from the drug. Obviously a slow phased phase out is the way to do it, but scattered, concentrate on your old issues now, since from the tone of your post, it seems like you have experienced some relief from depression.

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<< Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. *** I had a discussion with my doctor about this yesterday. I’ve been on Effexor XR for several months; at about 225mg it seemed to stop working, so he added a small dosage of Ritalin and it helped. But I’ve been having some real downtimes lately, and when the doc suggested increasing the Effexor to 300mg I asked him the same withdrawl questions. He didn’t seem overly concerned; he said that if I chose to withdraw I’d just have to do it very, very slowly. I’m troubled by the idea of being physically dependant on this drug (what if there’s another big earthquake and the pharmacies aren’t operating?). But in the end, I’m willing to take my chances; it’s better than the uncontrollable rage and depression I felt before I started the meds. Kit

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I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

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Hi and Welcome to the ng, I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

Are you in therapy now? Peace, Lynda — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

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I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

Have you given therapy with a really good therapist a try? Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

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Yes I am in therapy. I dont see how just talking helps I get to feeling like all i do is cry. Its not like i always have bad things that happen all the time. It just seems like they get me down the most….. how come i dont get happy when good thing happen….Actually i have been to see several therapist…. and counselors….. and psychiatrist……. i just get the feeling like they just sit and agree with me. beckie — "If you have a candle, the light won’t glow any dimmer if I light yours off of mine." (STEVEN TYLER) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you in therapy now? Peace, Lynda — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer Have you given therapy with a really good therapist a try? Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

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Hi again, Yes I am in therapy. I dont see how just talking helps I get to feeling like all i do is cry. Its not like i always have bad things that happen all the time. It just seems like they get me down the most….. how come i dont get happy when good thing happen….Actually i have been to see several therapist…. and counselors….. and psychiatrist……. i just get the feeling like they just sit and agree with me. beckie

 Beckie I am so very sorry. Email me anytime. Peace, Lynda

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Effexor can cause terrible nausea. You need to take it on a full stomach, and with some time (a week?) it usually dissipates. Nausea can be a side effect of SSRI’s too. The reason is that there is seratonin receptors in the stomach, and having these stimulated can make you nauseaus. It almost always goes away. Talk to your doctor, though. They are the best to help you with this stuff.   Also, 50mg is a very low dose of effexor. They usually taper you up slowly to avoid side effects. But keep in mind, the average dose is around 225mg, so if 50 mg didn’t work before, that may be why. You have to give it time and taper up at your doctor’s discretion. Good luck.

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I take Effexor and have not experienced that…but I know Effexor is one med that you must slowly increase your mg’s.  It may have been a shock to your body taking Effexor after being off of it. I think Effexor is a good med.  I hope you continue with it and it works. Chris G

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Damn.. I haven’t posted here in awhile, but I was just wondering if anyone has experienced something similar to what I just did.  A bit of history first..  I was in a very bad place a few months, mentally.  I don’t want to go into the whole thing, but I wasn’t interested in anything in life, to put it mildly.  No medication that they tried worked (Prozac, Effexor), so I stopped taking it. My condition slowly and eventually improved to the point where I can now funciton in life.  Something is still missing (which I don’t know if I’ll ever get back), but I am able to laugh and have a good time again. Lately, I’ve been getting an empty feeling that I had before again.. not as strong, but it’s still there.  So, today I decided to start taking Effexor again (I have a bag full of it left over).  I took 50mg about an hour ago.   While I was playing the game Half-Life, this overwhelming wave of nausea came over me.  I have never felt it that strongly before.. I went into my bathroom and dry heaved for about 5 minutes before the feeling passed (I haven’t eaten since yesterday – I would’ve definitely vomited if I had).   Well, the nausea is gone, and I hope it doesn’t come back (especially since I have a job interview in 45 minutes).  Has anybody else experienced anything like this with anti-depressants?  I don’t think the game helped, as it is a 3D shooter that can be nausea inducing. I’m kind of afraid to take it tomorrow, now.. Web site: http://www.blarghnet.com/supper "What do you do when your roots have dissolved and broken down  And the soil that you grew in when you were small  Has become nothing more than dirt  In some dirty town" – Marillion, "This Town"

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Though I am nearly having a panic attack just –reading– these posts, it is extremely comforting to know I am not the "only" one !  mc

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I forgot to mention something else that helps me with intrusions at work. I keep a white noise box, it doesn’t drown out everything, but it actually works quite well. They sell small ones that have like five sound effects (rain, ocean, white noise, babbling brook and rainforest.) Just a thought, if you can’t alleviate the intrusions, cover them up. It’s kind of like when your face breaks out.  There is no stopping the problem, but if you are like me, you cover that right up : ) Regards, Julie —

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brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal.  Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression.  After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage.  But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor).  Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it?  Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee

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My pdoc had me increase by 37.5 mg every 3 days until I was up to 300 mg. Starting it had some of the worst side effects of any medication I’ve ever had, but stopping it, at the same rate, was even worse. I had terrible nausea whenever I was even late with a dose, but at least that reminded me to take it. Cutting down I just had to live through the nausea. I’d been on only Prozac since 91 because I’d only been to idiots since then until I crashed big-time in December and got in to see a pdoc with a clue. Even when I spent 4 months in bed a few years ago, the doctors just told me to keep taking my Prozac and I’d be ok. So my experience about 6 weeks ago of my first purely manic episode was such a shock to my system after so many years (40+) of unrelenting depression relieved only by mixed episodes. I really couldn’t say with such limited experience on various ADs just what it was that threw me into mania. Seems like taking 6 months to get to a therapeutic dose isn’t any smarter than going too fast. I was in such bad shape that I wasn’t eating at all and was in danger of death from the kind of heart failure that anorexics die of, so the pdoc needed to do whatever it took to snap me out of it. brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal.  Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression.  After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage.  But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor).  Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it?  Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee

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When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me.  It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc.  I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple

Then I must need a lot of trips to the pdoc, cause my meds never work But we’ll see if Neurontin works, also the psych (therp) I started seeing… ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…

bw

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brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years

Hi Brownee and Gandalf, My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! That way effects can be judiciously monitored. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

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My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! HEAR, HEAR! With Effexor, it is especially important.  I went into a manic state you would have to have seen to believe when I was put on a huge dose of it.  Besides, that should be the rule for all meds.  IMHO

Amen! All pdocs should learn that on their very first day of residency. Also most meds require them to be tapered off — not stopping them cold turkey. Slowly on — slowly off. Your friend on the rollercoaster from hell, Shawn

Best regards from, James

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<Posted and Mailed to Brownee [snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. Thanks for using physical assault verbiage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too?

If they don’t walk in our shoes, they can’t possibly understand or relate. [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3X daily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet.

Does your watch have an alarm function on it that you can set to remind you to take your meds? If not you should be able to buy an inexpensive digital travel alarm that would do the job. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid Rxs)

Yes. But percentage wise not that much more — particularly considering the benefits you receive. I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them.

How about recording your mood index (1-10) every 15 minutes? You will need an alarm to remember to write the value down. Also record when you take your meds. Plotting your mood index can show med-induced URC. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote?

Oh, about the difference between a 1920 Ford Model "T" and a 1999 Ferrari. There is no comparison whatsoever. But Neurontin is a bit tricky to "drive". It is very powerful and you can spin out and "lose" control — particularly since most pdocs don’t have the faintest idea how to prescribe it.  My guesstimate is that if properly prescribed, Neurontin would be effective for around 50% of those trying it as monotherapy. With polytherapy the percentage should increase. BTW I’m in the process of updating my FAQ on Mood Stabilizers used in the US. I’m up to a dozen and still counting. I doubt if I will post it today since I’m getting rather tired — and the Lord knows I need my beauty sleep. <G Depakote is the HMOs standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness.

<SIGH!!! Penny wise and pound foolish as always. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell.

I suggest giving Depakote 2 months just to be sure. You should be in the established "therapeutic" range for 2 consecutive blood tests (usually a week apart). Your liver function should also be checked to make sure its not being adversely affected. Have you lost any hair or gained any weight? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. But what’s sufficient time?

It all depends on several factors (is the med metabolized?, if so how rapidly?, what is the removal half life?, and how long does it take for the brain require for it to become sensitized to the med?). It is the latter factor which gives rise to the greatest uncertainty. Because some people’s brains apparently never become sensitized and so the med is not effective for them. Others become desensitized and a med switch is necessary. I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything.

Bureaucratic incompetencies are enough to drive a well person insane!!! James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before?

Sure, I’ve had experience with a couple dozen or so programming languages and operating systems. I presume there are tutorial Web pages about HTML. Do you have any URLs to recommend? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today.

Mentally I’m doing OK. I just don’t want to bite off more than I can comfortably chew time wise. The number of NG posts seem to have increased of late. I hate to let them go while I’m dinking around with DEs and HTML. brownee

Best wishes from, James

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[snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken.

Thanks for using physical assault verbage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too? [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR.

My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3xdaily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid rx’s) I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV.

In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote? Depakote is the HMO’s standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken.

But what’s sufficient time? I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side-effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows.

HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today. brownee Best regards from, James

brownee

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrieks of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"?

A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin.

I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what.

To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself.

Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site?

Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. brownee

Best regards from, James

Response:

When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me.  It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc.  I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!!

Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "nromals"? My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI.

I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh!

Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a webpage or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee Best regards from, James

brownee

Response:

<snip That is tough, I can relate.  I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot.  I need peace time.  Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost.

<snip me too. You are optimistic, I think, to think of these things as intrusions. I whine about "painful stimuli".  Also, as my dearest friends know…I am developing agorophobia as a coping mechanism.  Seriously, not afraid to leave the house, just not willing to pay the price much anymore. Kicker, isn’t it, when even good times are stressors?! Understand completely (?), regards from julie

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound.

A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one.

Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee

Best regards from, James

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania.  Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder.   My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds.  However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation!  THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate.

I think that may be the case, but he doesn’t self medicate anymore.  I think he just got fried as a guinea pig in the institutions.  He was completely at their mercy.  All I remember is when he got out… in a moment of clarity, he remarked "I have walked through hell." I don’t know if he is bipolar and severely burned from treatment, or a true sz. May none of us know the hell he saw. He went to NY and lived the streets for three years after that.  He went to California.  When he finally returned to Miami he was so far gone. Those moments of clarity are fewer than ever.  I think part of the delusions are armor for protection.  I will never know. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater.

In the early days he would use alcohol but that ended after his hospitalizations to the best of my knowledge. Just a thought.

Thanks for your input Elaine. Julie —

Response:

My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic.  Interesting.  (I mentioned my father to my pdoc.  He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.)

My father is also a dx’d schizophrenic, although my doc believes that he is BP since my sister and I are BP.  I understand alot of people are misdiagnosed.  I must say that my father was not misdiagnosed.  He is a true schizophrenic.   This might explain the way I feel so sensitized to stimuli all around me. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Julie —

Response:

A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania.  Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder.   My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds.  However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation!  THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine

Response:

<Posted and Mailed

                                                     <Snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler.

                                                <snipped James

When the thumping bass of my neighbors stereo is louder in my appartment than my own TV….I seriously consider introducing my neighbor to an ancient chinese addage that goes "please don’t hit my fist with your face."  Then add to that "rap" sh*t, the sounds of car alarm systems, screaming at 2am "THE VIPER IS ARMED". I hear what you are saying James. Ralph

Response:

I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver.  He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears.  Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise.  In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks.  So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli.

My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic.  Interesting.  (I mentioned my father to my pdoc.  He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask.  So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus.  If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)

bw

Response:

<Posted and Mailed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc.), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem.

Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :)

I am even tormented by people grilling a steak a block away. I immediately feel like making new friends. Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was too low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.

If you are sensitive to Neurontin’s antidepressive effects, you may need to reduce or even totally eliminate Zoloft to prevent (hypo)mania from being induced. Be warned and be very careful how you take Neurontin. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor.

Short of a prefrontal lobotomy — I don’t know what to do either. I certainly wish I could turn my sensitivity setting down a bunch!!! Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here. Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …

I don’t mind admitting that I’m a Net addict. I believe that some addictions are worth having. James

Response:

After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions.

<snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. brownee

Response:

I can usually handle the music at loud parties in the nieghbor hood – it is the screaming OVER the music that I just go ballistic over. And what about people you ride in the car with who take 10 minutes to find the perfect station, turn up the volumne and then start a conversation? Elaine

Response:

I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver.  He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears.  Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise.  In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks.  So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli.  In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask.  So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus.  If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive.

Don’t forget the evil perfume addicts. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way.

That is tough, I can relate.  I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot.  I need peace time.  Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.

Neurontin here too.  Unfortunately it is a new drug for me so no advice here.  I hope it helps, especially with fewer side effects! But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here.  Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something

Ditto… it is my equivalent to an interactive soap opera.   Normally I don’t respond to this many posts, but I have more free time and the Neurontin is making me happy! Good Luck! Julie —

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After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here.  Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …

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Question:

Ian,                                                                              Thank you for the information you sent to me about Zoloft withdrawal.  Do you know if it will be easier for someone like me who is only on 37 1/2 mg. to get off of, verses someone who is on alot more?  Or does that matter?  Do you know how long of a weaning period it should take?  I am really starting to get nervous.  I had terrible withdrawals getting off of Klonopin.  Thank you for

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Ian,                                                                           Thank you for the information you sent to me about Zoloft withdrawal.  Do you know if it will be easier for someone like me who is only on 37 1/2 mg. to get off of, verses someone who is on alot more?

The short answer is yes, it should be easier to wean off a low dose compared to a higher one. However, the long answer may give a different picture. Your 37.5mg dose is so low that, in theory, you should be able to stop, cold turkey, without problems. Withdrawal from antidepressants is different to that from benzodiazepines. This is partly due to the comparatively long half-life of ADs, in some cases it can take more than a month for all traces of an AD to be eliminated from the body. And the way ADs work can also lessen the severety of withdrawal. On the down side, the long half-life means that the weaning process can be a drawn out process. But, ‘withdrawal’ encompasses many factors, not all related to the chemistry of the medication/drug. Both the psychological stress of withdrawal and, possibly, the return of the anxiety that prompted medication originally can have a big affect. From reading your earlier posts, it seems that you are looking forward to being med free and this may help you to negate/overcome the psych. stress component. Whether your anxiety will return as the Zoloft is reduced is another matter. In theory, being below the accepted therapeutic dose, would suggest that the Zoloft hasn’t have been comtributing much, if anything, to any lessening of anxiety. However, our individual responses to medication is different and its possible that you have been deriving far more benefit than would be the case with someone else. Unfortunately, the symptoms of anxiety and withdrawal can be much the same, so for some time it will be difficult to know which factor is driving any symptoms. Do you know how long of a weaning period it should take?

Aah, the how long is a piece of string question. I don’t know, it all depends on you. As I’ve already stated, your low dose should make it comparatively easy to stop, but individual factors and psychology will play a part. The only suggestion is to reduce by a quarter initially and remaining at that level for 7-10 days, or until any withdrawal symptoms disappear. Then reduce by another 1/4, etc. If your run into major problems then either a smaller daily reduction, say 1/8th, or even taking the reduced by 1/4 dose only every second days (eg: 37.5mg, 28mg, 37.5, 28 etc) until you’re stabalised, then dropping to the 28mg for another week can also work. I am really starting to get nervous.  I had terrible withdrawals getting off of Klonopin.

I doubt that you have much to worry about. The withdrawal symptoms of ADs are, in most cases, not as severe as those from benzodiazepines and you are only coming down from a low base. Although I’ve had real problems with starting a new AD, weaning off has presented few difficulties, even from very high doses. Your biggest problem is likely to come from your mind, especially as its been affected by your Klonopin experience (BTW-IMO your probs were probably more psych than chemical). So the best thing you can do is to prepare mentally for the changes your doctor proposes. And if you don’t feel ready, then stay on the meds until you are. Ulimately, your are in charge of your mins and body, not the doc.

Well its knowledge mainly gained from the experiences of those that contribute to this NG. You can help by keeping us informed of your progress. Your experiences, good and bad, will go into the knowledge pool and may help someone else. Good luck and take care Ian

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If there is one subject that consumes most of our attention, it is that of the side effects of medications, particularly anti-anxiety meds. However, not all the S.Es we experience are due to the chemistry of these medications. During drug trials even benign placebos generate far more S.Es in volunteers with anxiety disorders than in volunteers without a disorder. Common effects reported from placebos include: nausea, headache, dizziness, sleepiness,insomnia, fatigue, depression, numbness, hallucinations, itching, vomiting, tremor, tachycardia, diarrhea, pallor, rashes, hives, ataxia, and edema, to name a few. (Source: Merck Manual, Section 22 – Clinical Pharmacology, Sub. Sect: 283 PLACEBOS) So while some of the side effects experienced when beginning medications are undoubtedly due to the medication’s chemistry, some are also the result of our mind’s psychological reaction to the medication. And probably the more ‘pill phobic’ you are the more likely you are to experience psychological side effects. Ian

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Question:

Does anyone here have any experience taking Effexor for ADHD?  My doctor just prescribed it.  I am taking 75mg per day.  I was taking Zoloft for depression, and he thought the Effexor would help with both the depression and the ADHD. Thanks, Phil Zerr

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Does anyone here have any experience taking Effexor for ADHD?  My doctor just prescribed it.  I am taking 75mg per day.  I was taking Zoloft for depression, and he thought the Effexor would help with both the depression and the ADHD. Thanks, Phil Zerr

About 1 month ago the same question was asked.  If this thread is not available to you check dejanews.com and search for threads on effexor.

More later George

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Hi.  yes i take zoloft and effexor along with some other meds for depression and hypomania.  they all work well.  i just have to remember to take the darn med’s daily.  otherwise all i can say is try it and see how it goes.  i have a complaint about my meds.  i am also an artist.  i can’t stand the flat line feeling (no mania)  i don’t feel energetic, creative, and grandiose with ideas (laugh).  i can’t sit still and study for my prof. exam.  i am so restless. not because the meds don’t work but because i don’t take my meds ON TIME or DAILY. it’s like i get too busy.  crazy huh?  Don’t feel bad, we’ll all find our balance… soon i hope.

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Hi.  yes i take zoloft and effexor along with some other meds for depression and hypomania.  they all work well.  i just have to remember to take the darn med’s daily.  otherwise all i can say is try it and see how it goes.  i have a complaint about my meds.  i am also an artist.  i can’t stand the flat line feeling (no mania)  i don’t feel energetic, creative, and grandiose with ideas (laugh).  i can’t sit still and study for my prof. exam.  i am so restless. not because the meds don’t work but because i don’t take my meds ON TIME or DAILY. it’s like i get too busy.  crazy huh?  Don’t feel bad, we’ll all find our balance… soon i hope.

You keep forgetting because of the flat feeling.  You don’t like it. From my experience, the SSRIs – zoloft – may cause this feeling.  I recently tried an SSRI that is new to the U.S. – Celexa  - which made me feel like sleeping all day.  I guess it reduced my impulsivity, but it increased my inattention.  Paxil was also useless for me for several similar reasons.  The Effexor seemed to be very helpful without the flat feeling, but I developed such miserable urinary tract irritation that I could not sleep.  Fortunately, for you, this side effect is uncommon.   In summary, my experience is that Effexor, which is not a SSRI,  is more effective in ADD treatmant than SSRIs.  However, for some people SSRIs are effective and often SSRIs are used in conjunction with other drugs to treat ADD.  I would suggest that overmedication with SSRI’s is not good for an artist.  It’s ok for an artist to be a little hypomanic.  It’s far better than losing one’s creativity.  Just don’t be tempted to be manic.  Talk about a rebound effect… You should discuss your problem with meds. with your doc. so that you will take your medication as prescribed rather than self-medicate.  Perhaps less Zoloft and more Effexor would work better.  Perhaps your overall dose is too high.  Your failure to follow dosing instructions could be showing that your ADD symptoms are not being well treated, also.   I certainly can not tell you, but you should think about these possibilities. George

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I just started taking effexor for depression.  I quit taking paxil and last year I was on zoloft.  I am not sure how I feel about it yet.  Would enjoy talking with you about it.

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