Question:

Those spacers are good. . .but the neatest thing I have seen is a product called MDI Tutor.  It is tiny [barely adds any size to the inhaler] and helps you use your inhaler properly.

Response:

My Aerochamber makes a whistleing sound when I inhale too fast.  Is that what you’re talking about? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those spacers are good. . .but the neatest thing I have seen is a product called MDI Tutor.  It is tiny [barely adds any size to the inhaler] and helps you use your inhaler properly.

Response:

Please email your mailing address.  I will send you a complete package of information on what has finally given me drug free relief after thirty years of suffering!!!

Response:

I can’t imagine taking inhalers anymore without the Aerochamber.  It cuts out that hoarse throat, and just all around seems to be more efficient at getting the medicine where its supposed to go.  Before it would land on my upper pallette (sp?) and leave a spot of medicine there.  Now I don’t have to pay so much attention to how I’m taking it except for expelling my breath before. Sue M.

I agree with you … Aerochambers are great. There’s a really good one out there called an OptiHaler, made by Healthscan Products. I don’t know if you’ve tried it but I personally like to use it a little better than those clear AeroChamber ones. The OptiHaler is more compact so it’s easier to carry around, and I like how it functions. You can store your medication inside it, too. It’s hard to find though at the pharmacies.                                              http://www.europa.com/~bjknotts/

Response:

I can’t imagine taking inhalers anymore without the Aerochamber.  It cuts out that hoarse throat, and just all around seems to be more efficient at getting the medicine where its supposed to go.  Before it would land on my upper pallette (sp?) and leave a spot of medicine there.  Now I don’t have to pay so much attention to how I’m taking it except for expelling my breath before. Sue M.

Response:

What is an aerochamber? Kathy Anderson fellow-sufferer

Response:

What is an aerochamber? Kathy Anderson fellow-sufferer

See the alt.support.asthma FAQ – I wrote a bit on Aerochambers in the FAQ. Briefly, it is a holding chamber that makes inhalers easier and more efficient to use: you spray your medication into it and then inhale the medication from it, at your own comfortable rate. Certainly worth having, since the inhalation speed required for matching the inhaler’s spray speed is difficult for many to achieve (especially during a flare), and since, without one, those who take inhaled steroids are more likely to get thrush. — Mark Feblowitz,   GTE Laboratories Inc., 40 Sylvan Rd.  Waltham, MA 02254

Response:

 When I posted my first note about a month ago I got a lot of wonderful advice from people and many asked for an update after I saw the doctor. Here it is!  I went to the doctor today and by the time I left I was so elated! What a relief to finally get professional help, I feel so relaxed. He put me on Methylprednisolone tabs for 6 days and I also have Flovent and Serevent that I take two puffs of twice a day. I got Albuterol for when/if I have any problems. He also gave me an AeroChamber and a peak flow meter. Now I’m cooking with gas!  :)  Thanks for all the concern. Tammy

Response:

Question:

I must say that I did not find Simple Green very good as a degreaser.  I sprayed it full strength on the chain rings and several areas of the frame with no luck at cutting the grease even after vigorous rubbing.  I even let it sit for a while.  I went back to the citrus degreaser which works great. Mark

I find Simple Green ($7 for a whole gallon at Sam’s Club — and you can dilute it and use it as a general household cleanser) works great in my Vetta Chain Cleaner, but really is not that effective on heavy degreasing jobs, such as cleaning headset bearings in races.  Still, it’s a relative bargain compared to many bicycle-specific products. Ron

Response:

: Does anyone have some experience which cheap degreasers, which do not : include the mtb premium price, i.e. are not primarily made for cycling use. : Try WD40, works great for me. Try Turpentine (Synthetic sort) Costs about

Question:

I am 26 and have had asthma since I was a child.  Today I consider my asthma to be well controlled.  I use my bronchodilator two puffs twice a day (sometimes 3 if I exercise or otherwise trigger an attack), take singulair once a day, and am getting allergy shots which seem to be reducing my asthmatic reactions to allergens. However, I still have occasional mild attacks when I go out in the wind and cold or when I exercise.  I use my inhaler (third time for the day) and it goes away.  To me, this is much better than my asthma has ever been and I’m satisfied, but my doctor says having any asthma symptoms at all can cause airways remodeling.  He wants me to take inhaled steroids (flovent) as well. I am worried about the flovent because I am at an extremely high risk for osteoporisis (my grandmother got it despite consuming 200% RDA calcium every day of her life and taking hormonal supplements after menopause–everything you’re supposed to do). Can an occasional mild, easily treatable attack really cause airways remodeling?  (Also, consider that when I was young my asthma was not controlled well at all–I had frequent moderate attacks, a couple of severe ones, and had to use my bronchodilator 6 times a day, so I’m sure some remodeling has already occurred–I don’t know if that’s relevant). Also, how long does Serevent take to start working?  I tried that once briefly and it didn’t seem to help, so I stopped, but am considering trying that again instead of the steroids. Thanks, Karen

Response:

Is trying a weaker inhaled steroid (such as Vanceril or even Azmacort) an option?  The side effects of steroids are more severe the stronger the steroid is, as I understand it, and Flovent is one of the stronger ones.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 26 and have had asthma since I was a child.  Today I consider my asthma to be well controlled.  I use my bronchodilator two puffs twice a day (sometimes 3 if I exercise or otherwise trigger an attack), take singulair once a day, and am getting allergy shots which seem to be reducing my asthmatic reactions to allergens. However, I still have occasional mild attacks when I go out in the wind and cold or when I exercise.  I use my inhaler (third time for the day) and it goes away.  To me, this is much better than my asthma has ever been and I’m satisfied, but my doctor says having any asthma symptoms at all can cause airways remodeling.  He wants me to take inhaled steroids (flovent) as well. I am worried about the flovent because I am at an extremely high risk for osteoporisis (my grandmother got it despite consuming 200% RDA calcium every day of her life and taking hormonal supplements after menopause–everything you’re supposed to do). Can an occasional mild, easily treatable attack really cause airways remodeling?  (Also, consider that when I was young my asthma was not controlled well at all–I had frequent moderate attacks, a couple of severe ones, and had to use my bronchodilator 6 times a day, so I’m sure some remodeling has already occurred–I don’t know if that’s relevant). Also, how long does Serevent take to start working?  I tried that once briefly and it didn’t seem to help, so I stopped, but am considering trying that again instead of the steroids. Thanks,  Karen

I would recommend consider going on low dose beclomethasone; say 2 pf Vancenase or Beclovent twice a day. Beclomethasone is the steroid inhaler with the longest history of safety and is the one recommended in pregnancy. The dose is 42 ug beclomethasone per puff, so 4 puffs is only 168 ug/day. This should help prevent remodeling. There are some concerns that some other steroid inhalers like Azmacort, maybe even Flovent, have more severe side effects; certainly their record is much shorter. Serevent is a long-acting bronchodilator. It should start working within 15 minutes and peaks out at about 4 hours later. Regarding calcium, note that vitamin D is also needed to enable absorption; this can come from milk, vitamin pills or sunshine. Ellis

Response:

Question:

Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff:

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and

http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks!

Response:

Hey there Erik have you scraped her bottom of the barnacles and are going to ride her like a wild man this season?  The boat Erik the boat  ~grin~ Ronnie

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and

http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta… art=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

Response:

I am starting to have some headaches, but since I’m on steroids, Advair, Albuterol, and God knows how many other drugs at this moment, it’s hard to say it’s actually the Singulair.  I can say it is the best allergy medication I’ve ever taken.  I’ve never had days like this where my nose wasn’t constantly dripping.  If I find it’s the Singulair giving me headaches, I’m going to try a 5 mg dose to see if that helps. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?  

What kind of doctor?  I’d recommend a psychiatrist that also suffers from migraines.  I’ve been very fortunate to find some very empathetic pdocs over the last few years.  It’s a whole different world and there is all sorts of drugs available to them that aren’t available to a neurologist. As for me, I showed up at a psychiatrist after persuing every other option.  According to him, I was suffering from classic anxiety attacks that were bathing my brain in adrenalin.  Beta blockers worked, but not very well.  Based on reports from another poster in the group, I asked for seroquel and he went along with it.  It proved to be a silver bullet for me. Ins companies have been starting to question seroquel because it’s being perscribed basically for sleep.  It’s a fairly expensive sleep medication, but if you’re suffering from daily migraines and it works, it’s well worth the cost. My pdoc had samples that I used for the first month.  I’d explain your ins situation and just ask for these.  If it works, you’ll know the fight is worth it. Keep in mind that seroquel is a powerful med.  Even at the lowest dose of 25mg, I’d recommend quartering the pill and working up.  I felt very groggy, tired, and light headed, but it was much better then a daily chronic migraine.   It’s usually perscribed for extremely agitated psychotics, so it may have profound effect effect on you.  For my first dose of 25mg, I slept for 16 hrs straight of badly needed sleep.  I worked up to 300mg, but I’ve weaned back down to 150mg.  Any lower and I go back to migraine hell. Also, keep in mind that because your ins company denies perscription, you can still purchase the medication yourself.  I know this can be a financial burden, but for me, it pales compared to the cost of not being able to work.  My perscription for 15 300mg (that I cut in half) runs me about $124/month before my ins pays half.  Money well spent. Erik

Response:

The boat Erik the boat  ~grin~

I was thinking boat and then I had to read it again to pick up the other meaning. Cat not on the beach yet.  It needs to repairs.  Maybe this weekend if it doesn’t rain. Erik

Response:

Erik, How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?  My neuro is trying to get this for me, but the insurance company says it’s an anti psychotic drug and using it for migraine prevention or insomnia is an off label use and therefore they will not cover it.  They’ve asked for him to cite two studies where Seroquel was used for insomnia before they will approve the prescription.  The doctor told me on Monday that he will look for the information, but I got a call today from his nurse saying that the prior authorization was denied. Maybe I should be looking for studies for allergies or migraine? Karen in San Diego – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

Response:

I’ve never tried singulair,have tried Serquel {sp?} didnt help tho. I’ve tried benedril only helped allerigies,made go to sleep. MM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am starting to have some headaches, but since I’m on steroids, Advair, Albuterol, and God knows how many other drugs at this moment, it’s hard to say it’s actually the Singulair.  I can say it is the best allergy medication I’ve ever taken.  I’ve never had days like this where my nose wasn’t constantly dripping.  If I find it’s the Singulair giving me headaches, I’m going to try a 5 mg dose to see if that helps. Michelle I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I’ll call around and see who has the Seroquel and for what price and since it would be without insurance I could fill it anywhere.

If 50mg worked for you, great!  Given that I was comatose for 16 hrs on my first dose, I was a little more cautious. Wow, that’s really good that it worked for you.  I’ve found the best prices at Sam’s and Walgreens.  It’s usually priced per dose, so you can buy fewer larger pills for a better deal.  I recommend a pill cutter. You could also get a pdoc to give you an exotic diagnosis that the ins company won’t challenge.  <hint  (Just consider life & health ins before you acquire such a label.) Erik

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard of people on here who have in combination with other medicatins…not sure which ones.  I’m taking it right now for my seasonal allergies and it works great for me.  We’ll see if it helps curb the migraines as well as I have chronic daily migraines. Michelle Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

I saw a post here some time ago from someone who was using it with, I think, Vioxx, a COX-2 inhibiter.  Vioxx is gone, but Celebrex is still available, and it might work with an ordinary NSAID, such as aspirin, ibuprofen, or naproxen.  I think I was able to find an article about Singulair alone on a MEDLINE search of montelukast (Singulair(R)) AND migraine.  Zaphirlukast (Accolate(R)) does about the same thing and a months worth is about 40% less expensive than Singulair, but is a twice-a-day dose schedule. The rationale presumably is that the combination blocks both parts of the chain from eicosenoic acid or arachidonic acid to two pro-inflammatory substances, leukotrienes or long-acting substance of anaphylaxis, an important intermediary in asthma, and prostaglandins.

Response:

Erik, Thanks for the info.  At first, I was given 20 25 mg pills as a sample and told to take one or two before bedtime.  I did this on a Friday night.  I woke up Saturday after eight glorious hours of sleep!  So, 50 mg should not have been my first dose, I should have titrated up, interesting, they didn’t tell me that. Second time, they only had four pill sample packs, so they gave me four pills.  I took two 25 mg pills the first night, then two again the second night.  The next night, sans seroquel, I took 30 mg of temazepam, but had break through awakenings throughout the night. Last night I took two 10 mg Ambien.  Surprise, got eight hours of sleep only interrupted once.  It seems like my brain gets used to a med, but after awhile I can go back to it for a short time.  Halcion did nothing, but Ambien is the same type of med.  What gives? I will pursue Seroquel through my insurance and if they still deny it after the doctor does his research, I may try a month or two of paying for it myself.  My neuro is a sleep specialist, you’d think they would trust him to prescribed off label without all the run around. I’ll call around and see who has the Seroquel and for what price and since it would be without insurance I could fill it anywhere. Thanks again. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?   What kind of doctor?  I’d recommend a psychiatrist that also suffers from migraines.  I’ve been very fortunate to find some very empathetic pdocs over the last few years.  It’s a whole different world and there is all sorts of drugs available to them that aren’t available to a neurologist. As for me, I showed up at a psychiatrist after persuing every other option.  According to him, I was suffering from classic anxiety attacks that were bathing my brain in adrenalin.  Beta blockers worked, but not very well.  Based on reports from another poster in the group, I asked for seroquel and he went along with it.  It proved to be a silver bullet for me. Ins companies have been starting to question seroquel because it’s being perscribed basically for sleep.  It’s a fairly expensive sleep medication, but if you’re suffering from daily migraines and it works, it’s well worth the cost. My pdoc had samples that I used for the first month.  I’d explain your ins situation and just ask for these.  If it works, you’ll know the fight is worth it. Keep in mind that seroquel is a powerful med.  Even at the lowest dose of 25mg, I’d recommend quartering the pill and working up.  I felt very groggy, tired, and light headed, but it was much better then a daily chronic migraine.   It’s usually perscribed for extremely agitated psychotics, so it may have profound effect effect on you.  For my first dose of 25mg, I slept for 16 hrs straight of badly needed sleep.  I worked up to 300mg, but I’ve weaned back down to 150mg.  Any lower and I go back to migraine hell. Also, keep in mind that because your ins company denies perscription, you can still purchase the medication yourself.  I know this can be a financial burden, but for me, it pales compared to the cost of not being able to work.  My perscription for 15 300mg (that I cut in half) runs me about $124/month before my ins pays half.  Money well spent. Erik

Response:

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I’ve heard of people on here who have in combination with other medicatins…not sure which ones.  I’m taking it right now for my seasonal allergies and it works great for me.  We’ll see if it helps curb the migraines as well as I have chronic daily migraines. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta….

I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

Response:

Clear DayHey Debbie, Watch all that jumping around – you might hit your head on the ceiling and…… "get a headache" Good for you. I am sure we are all happy for you. Go Girl Dan   I had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one.   Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too.  I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful…   —   Debby H

Response:

Clear DayI had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one. Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too.  I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful… — Debby H

Response:

Clear DayDebby, This all started when patients at the New England Center for Headache noticed that those who started taking Singulair for their asthma had a reduction in their migraines. They did a very small study there, and found that Singulair was an effective preventive for some of the participants in their small study. There are clinical trials being conducted now. — Teri Robert your About Guide to Headaches http://headaches.about.com visit our forum at: http://headaches.about.com/mpboards.htm

I had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one. Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too. I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful… — Debby H

Response:

Well, I am glad that they found it!  I know it might not last, most of the other treatments quit after a while, but I am just happy to (still) be under control.  I did get a doozy Monday morning after spending all day Sunday at the drag strip (had to cheer on my brother) in the sun with all that loud noise, but that was to be expected And it actually went away after only ONE dose of Maxalt. Still smiling…  the next test will be my hormone headache which is due in about a week, we will seeee… — Debby

Response:

BTDTDW (been there done that didn’t work) — but no side effects for me, which was in itself a wonder. –Julianne

Response:

Yes!  I tried it with no success, but my son tried it with wonderful results.  Didn’t completely get rid of his headaches,  but he had 80-90% improvement,and no side effects.  This is definitely worth trying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody tried Singulair as a migraine preventive?

Response:

Anybody tried Singulair as a migraine preventive?

Response:

Question:

stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

grrrrrrr. sounds really frustrating. ~  sorry that you’re feeling so hopeless. hope you feel better soon.   e – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when)

I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.    I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy

I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes.   take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

p.s.  maybe it is boo.net?  I can’t remember trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.  doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.  I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* ducks flying rainbow jello.   I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.   linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi linda,

<snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.

I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.

Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.

    Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign.  In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.

oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.

    That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk*

Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello.

I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.

I noticed.  Okay by me. trill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves< betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello. I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW. I noticed.  Okay by me. trill linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi trill and J/c, Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle<

hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)  I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.  I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.   We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves<

<waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out.   getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it.   I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there.   Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too.   so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. I hope everyone who’s down right now with some flu or something else, is feeling  a little better. betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr

I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that.   I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy.   For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c. Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.

I think I’m coming to a similar conclusion now.  I’ve been on just about all of them and my response is one of either more depressed than before or it does nothing after an intital upswing.  Like I get aclimated to it or something.  I think most my depression is situational and until that improves, then that will also…eventually.  I haven’t given up on finding a T that can help me.  I just know now that the VA isn’t going to help me find one.  Maybe I can find one later if my SSI goes thru or my VA claim for stuff that happened while in the navy.  then I’ll start looking around.  I wanted to give this med a chance since this is a new PDoc (to me) and he’s supposed to be real helpful for us getting assistance.  He is less likely to play the insurance game.  But they still like their medications.  He’s seen my chart though and knows all the meds I’ve already been on.   I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.

well, that’s cool too.  sometimes I like it here better.  It depends, like   you say, on what I am needing at the time.  Sometimes one is just not enough and the posts seem too…um…nice.  sometimes I need to talk about things that aren’t so nice and politically correct.  or maybe get feedback from some others who may tell me something I may not want to hear but need to hear.  if that makes any sense.   Other times, that is just about all I can handle and I can’t do confrontations much at all anytime.    asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed,

yeah, I do that too.  not because I am trying to exclude anyone but more like I just can’t "split" my mind into that many area’s at once.  I tend to be more mono.   I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life.

why are you … read more »

Response:

Hey linda Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :))

Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!! most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)

Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!! We do have gr*ve concerns!<<<

 I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.

Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there! I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.

Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings? <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still.

OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery! As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve.

Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o( <snip I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.

Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens! Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey linda Hi J/c Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!!

Good!  Watermelon has more Vit. C than oranges.  I found that tidbit out in nursing school.  it was a trick question that we all got wrong. most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-) Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!!

Sorry to hear that her situation is like that.  I know you’ll be the best gramps though.   It can get wearing on you though.  I hope you can take some time for you too.  I know what it feels like to feel overwhelmed and guilty about needing time for myself in order to be more understanding when I’m around others. i wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again. Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there!

same here.  I just needed space from the inlaws and my foo.  my son is a whole different ballgame.  I do wish I could still get some respite though but it isn’t covered in this state evidently.  my so can’t deal with him very much at all.  no patience nor the desire to try to understand it seems sometimes.  that is disturbing me a great deal right now. I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing. Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings?

he stays in his room most the time except for appointments, meals and the occasional excusion to the mall or fireworks.  stuff like that.  He just can’t wait to get back to his computer, though and is very sullen and unsociable.  I’m hoping to find a youth group he’d consider trying.  He was in one in NH (ch*rch) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery!

ok, I can accept that may be how it’s perceived by others.  thanks for the compliment.  I just hope I didn’t make a mistake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o(

grins, ok, I guess I can do that.  thanks J/c. there are lots of good people online and off to make up for the few from before. I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here. Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens!

I wish I could send you something.  Keep watching the papers and flyers.  we see used pc’s and parts fairly cheap all the time in the little local "nickel" paper. (all want ads) Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

the weather is unbearably hot here.  and dry.  fire alerts all over.   it’s going to be around 110 next week  ick. enjoy your cool weather. linda — –~~There’s a difference between KNOWING the path…and WALKING the path~~

Response:

Question:

<Gale.Schu…@risperdal.causes.mania

wrote in message

news:cv50ducnc4u11fr799r6265i8vu3k60t76@4ax.com…

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without

a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the

heart, and so

switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though

I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have

tried to quit, the

tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the

crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to

ever be

successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"barbapic" <barba…@ntlworld.com

wrote in message <news:go%z8.821$8n2.364518@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… <Gale.Schu…@risperdal.causes.mania wrote in message news:cv50ducnc4u11fr799r6265i8vu3k60t76@4ax.com… Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Question:

    My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff

It’s called a paradoxical reaction, but I’ve never heard of this reaction to so many different medications. BTW, Serzone made me stoned too. It totally deactivates one particular liver enzyme. I’m really glad you’re getting in to see a psychiatrist. He really needs someone with expertise. good luck, Larry

Response:

I’m not a physician, but I used to sell psych meds.  And I study. Paradoxical effects to meds are not surprising.  Several doctors told me that it is impossible to tell how any one person is going to react to drugs before they try them.  For example, in the SSRI class, they often recommend that a patient take a week’s worth (or longer, depending on physician) of one of them, see if they agree with your system, and if not, switch.  There are quite a few: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Paxil, Luvox.  Effexor is an SNRI, so it’s in another class.  Take your doctor’s advice, and if it’s not working for you, find a doctor you are compatible with.  Hope that helps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Yes, but not to anti-psychotics…. only to benzodiazepines. You mention two drugs here of the AP class and I wonder if there is an interaction effect – might look at Dr. Koops interaction chart: http://www.ccgp.org/consumers/body_drkoop.htm Squiggles

Response:

Benzos are very safe meds when it comes to adverse effects and side-effects. Anti-psychotics are exactly the opposite.. dangerous side-effects, also they cause brain damage. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but not to anti-psychotics…. only to benzodiazepines. You mention two drugs here of the AP class and I wonder if there is an interaction effect – might look at Dr. Koops interaction chart: http://www.ccgp.org/consumers/body_drkoop.htm Squiggles

Response:

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the ng.     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.

Perhaps, an MAOI like Parnate would be effective. It is energizing for some people.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.

There are idiosyncratic reactions to meds. IOW,individual responses.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications?

 Perhaps, a consultation with a Psychopharmocologist may be helpful. If there is a teaching or university hospital in your area, call them and request a consulation. At any rate, there are newer mood stabilizers which may be effective for him. Also the MAOIs are also effective for dpression, although there are dietary restricyions involving tyramine containing foods. I can email you further info if you desire. Here is some info on Trileptal: http://bipolar.about.com/health/bipolar/msub7-oxcar.htm Oxcarbazepine – Trileptal Oxcarbazepine, an anticonvulsant related to Carbamazepine (Tegretol), has been in use in Europe in treating manic depression and is now beginning to be used in the United States, though not yet officially approved for such usage by the FDA. Oxcarbazepine/Trileptal General Information A short summary of information currently available regarding this medication and the major warnings associated with its use. Experience with Oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) From the About Bipolar Disorder Forum, community members share their experiences with taking this anticonvulsant drug for treatment of manic-depressive illness. Side Effects From our Side Effects Library, a listing of the registered side effects of Trileptal. DrugFAQs: Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) From PharmInfoNet, a series of questions and answers including special warnings and general precautions, how to take the medication, some side effects information and more. Oxcarbazepine Preliminary monograph from Lexi-Comp, Inc., has some pretty detailed pharmacological information, including implications for pregnancy/breast-feeding, kidney patients, interactions with other medications, and other important material. A Treatment for Epilepsy This page combines oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) and carbamazepine (Tegretol), but notes two side effects that are less common with Trileptal. Has a side effects chart and answers to 18 frequently asked questions. From U.K.’s Norfolk Mental Health Care. Trileptal: Another New Choice for Partial Onset Epilepsy This summary from PharmInfo Net includes clinical study results and a brief look at how the medication is thought to operate to control seizures. Trileptal Approved By FDA Reporting on the U.S. FDA’s approval of Trileptal for the treatment of partial epileptic seizures as monotherapy in adults or adjunctive therapy (used in combination with other anti-epileptic drugs) in adults and children as young as four years old. Drug Name: Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) Tablets http://www.centerwatch.com/drugs/dru599.htm The following information is obtained from various newswires, published medical journal articles, and medical conference presentations. Company: Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation Approval Status: Approved January 2000 Treatment for: Adjunctive & monotherapy in adults; adjunctive therapy for children ages 4-16 with partial epileptic seizures General Information Trileptal, an anticonvulsant or antiepileptic drug (AED), was approved for use as an adjunctive and monotherapy for the treatment of partial seizures in adults with epilepsy and for the adjunctive treatment of partial seizures in children, ages 4-16, with epilepsy. It is the first AED to be approved as a monotherapy in several years. 2.3 million Americans have been diagnosed with epilepsy. This year, 181,000 more Americans (children and adults) will develop epilepsy and seizures. Clinical Results Recent trials include 6 multi-center randomized double blind controlled trials that were conducted to determine the effectiveness of the drug. 4 of the studies investigated the drug as a monotherapy. Participants in these trials ranged from 8 to 66 years old. Two of the studies tested the drug as an adjunctive therapy. In studies in which the drug was compared to a placebo, patients given the drug lasted significantly longer without having certain seizures than did those patients not taking the drug. Furthermore, a higher dosage of the drug yielded a significantly longer period before the patient demonstrated specific seizure symptoms. In addition, two trials, one in which patients were ages 15-66 and the other in which patients were ages 3-17, examined Trileptal as an adjunctive therapy. Every patient in these trials was on 1-3 concomitant Anti-Epileptic Drugs. In both studies, dosage was increased over a period of two weeks until the patient reached the assigned dose or experienced an intolerance to the dosage. Results of the pediatric trial indicated that compared to a placebo, patients taking the study medication experienced over 25% greater reduction of frequency of partial seizures. In the adult study, the reduction of frequency of partial seizures for those taking the study drug at the lowest dose was over 18% greater than those taking the placebo, while at the highest dose was over 42% greater than those taking the placebo. Side Effects The most common side effects include, but are not limited to: *       Headache *       Somnolence or fatigue *       Dizziness *       Viral Infection *       Nausea Some patients also exhibited hyponatremia (low serum sodium levels). Most patients who developed this side effect, were asymptomatic. In clinical trials, patients whose treatment was discontinued due to hyponatremia, generally experienced normalization of serum sodium within a few days without additional treatment. Some additional side effects were associated with the central nervous system (CNS). These include: *       Psychomotor slowing *       Difficulty with concentration *       Speech or language problems *       Coordination abnormalities In clinical trials, patients’ discontinuation of therapy due to these CNS side effects was dose related when the drug was used as an adjunctive therapy; higher dosages increased the discontinuation rate. No discontinuation of treatment due to similar side effects was found when the drug was used as a monotherapy. Contraindications: Trileptal should not be used in patients with a known hypersensitivity to oxcarbazepine or to any of its components. Mechanism of Action The pharmacological activity of Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is primarily exerted through the 10-monohydroxy metabolite (MHD) of oxcarbazepine- The precise mechanism by which oxcarbazepine and MHD exert their antiseizure effect is unknown; however in vitro electrophysiological studies indicate that they produce blockade of voltage-sensitive sodium channels, resulting in the stabilization of hyperexcited neural membranes, inhibition of repetitive neuronal firing, and dimunition of propagation of synaptic impulses. These actions are thought to be important in the prevention of seizure spread in the intact brain. In addition, increased potassium conduction and modulation of high-voltage activated calcium channels may contribute to the anticonvulsive effects of the drug. No significant interactions of oxcarbazepine or MHD with brain neurotransmitter or modulator receptor sites have been demonstrated. (from FDA Label) Literature References For more information about epilepsy, visit the official web site of the Epilepsy Foundation, a non-profit volunteer agency devoted to research, education, advocacy, and services in the community for people with epilepsy and their families: www.efa.org or visit Epilepsy-International.com, where you can find out about everything from dates of international conferences about epilepsy to a list of countries where Trileptal is available. Additional Information This is what the Epilepsy Foundation says to do and not to do if you encounter a person having an epileptic seizure: What To Do: *       Look for medical identification. *       Protect from nearby hazards. *       Loosen ties or shirt collars. *       Protect head from injury. *       Turn on side to keep airway clear unless injury exists. *       Reassure as consciousness returns. *       If a single seizure lasted less than 5 minutes, ask if hospital evaluation wanted. *       If there are multiple seizures, or if one seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes, call an ambulance. *       If person is pregnant, injured, or diabetic, call for aid at once. What Not To Do: *       Don’t put any hard implement in the mouth. *       Don’t try to hold tongue. It can’t be swallowed. *       Don’t try to give liquids during or just after seizure, *       Don’t use artificial respiration unless breathing is absent after muscle jerks subside, or unless water has been inhaled. *       Don’t restrain.

Response:

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the ng.     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.

Perhaps, an MAOI like Parnate would be effective. It is energizing for some people.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.

There are idiosyncratic reactions to meds. IOW,individual responses.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications?

 Perhaps, a consultation with a Psychopharmocologist may be helpful. If there is a teaching or university hospital in your area, call them and request a consulation. At any rate, there are newer mood stabilizers which may be effective for him. Here is some info on Trileptal:

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff It’s called a paradoxical reaction, but I’ve never heard of this reaction to so many different medications. That couldn’t possibly be a true statement…unless you skip most of the posts on this NG…

Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Serzone, lithium, and Neurontin work by different mechanisms. Six drugs, and six paradoxical reactions is quite extraordinary. I always check the literature before I reply to questions such as this, and the only reference to paradoxical reactions comes from "other adverse effects reported during clinical trials". In other words, reported in less than 1% of subjects. There is absolutely nothing on Medline, and only case reports in Google searches. You’re far more likely to experience paradoxical rage on benzodiazepines than you are to experience paradoxical depression on SSRIs, or activation on lithium, according to the literature. Neurontin has a more variable effect than the other meds. Its is the common experience of sufferers of depression to do what is known as cycling through the meds, because of the high rate of reverse repsonse and adverse reactions and intolerable side effects,  and its a lot of what is written about here..

Paradoxical reactions are but one type of adverse effect. the issue here wasn’t adverse effects per se, but one specific type thereof. dont mislead this poster by suggesting this very common experience is

rare… It is rare. your being bipoalr is no excuse for behaving badly…

You’re the one behaving badly. And for the 300th time, I’m not bipolar. I consider myself to be on the bipolar spectrum because I have had induced dysphoric mania, but that is an exclusionary factor for the formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Check the differential diagnosis section at the end of the diagnostic criteria at http://www.mentalhealth.com Reactions to meds is excluded.

Response:

Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Serzone, lithium, and Neurontin work by different mechanisms. Six drugs, and six paradoxical reactions is quite extraordinary.

not necessarly…. i had the same experience…… i tried.. wellbutrin….. serzone….. and a good couple others i cant remember and they all gave me reactions that were immediate and negative…… in my case, i needed a mood stabiliser. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always check the literature before I reply to questions such as this, and the only reference to paradoxical reactions comes from "other adverse effects reported during clinical trials". In other words, reported in less than 1% of subjects. There is absolutely nothing on Medline, and only case reports in Google searches. You’re far more likely to experience paradoxical rage on benzodiazepines than you are to experience paradoxical depression on SSRIs, or activation on lithium, according to the literature. Neurontin has a more variable effect than the other meds. Its is the common experience of sufferers of depression to do what is known as cycling through the meds, because of the high rate of reverse repsonse and adverse reactions and intolerable side effects,  and its a lot of what is written about here.. Paradoxical reactions are but one type of adverse effect. the issue here wasn’t adverse effects per se, but one specific type thereof. dont mislead this poster by suggesting this very common experience is rare… It is rare. your being bipoalr is no excuse for behaving badly… You’re the one behaving badly. And for the 300th time, I’m not bipolar. I consider myself to be on the bipolar spectrum because I have had induced dysphoric mania, but that is an exclusionary factor for the formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Check the differential diagnosis section at the end of the diagnostic criteria at http://www.mentalhealth.com Reactions to meds is excluded.

– on and on and on and on it goes like tears from a star; like tears from a star .. on and on and on it shows just how fragile we are;  how fragile we are… ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

Response:

Question:

HI All,    I have suffered on and off for years with depression and anxiety.  I have been on Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor SR and Serzone.  I have been off them for over 2 months (serzone was my last).  Well the anxiety is still there (no depression to speak of) so my Dr. prescribed Buspar today.  I took  5 mgs.  and within 1.5-2 hours I was dizzy, had a bad headache, was sick to my stomach, sweating uncontrollably and salivating like a dog.  My speach was also slightly affected.  Is this a usual reaction to Buspar at such a low level?  I never had these reactions when taking any of the above listed drugs.  I threw-up for over an hour and then felt fine.  I want to control my anxiety but cant if it will always cause this strong of a reaction.  I came off effexor cold turkey (dont try it) and did not feel this bad.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.  The rains have began once again here in Houston.  Tropical Storm Allison wants to take up permanent residence!  Thanks.  Randall in Houston

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI All,   I have suffered on and off for years with depression and anxiety.  I have been on Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor SR and Serzone.  I have been off them for over 2 months (serzone was my last).  Well the anxiety is still there (no depression to speak of) so my Dr. prescribed Buspar today.  I took  5 mgs.  and within 1.5-2 hours I was dizzy, had a bad headache, was sick to my stomach, sweating uncontrollably and salivating like a dog.  My speach was also slightly affected.  Is this a usual reaction to Buspar at such a low level?  I never had these reactions when taking any of the above listed drugs.  I threw-up for over an hour and then felt fine.  I want to control my anxiety but cant if it will always cause this strong of a reaction.  I came off effexor cold turkey (dont try it) and did not feel this bad.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.  The rains have began once again here in Houston.  Tropical Storm Allison wants to take up permanent residence!  Thanks.  Randall in Houston

Imho don’t take anymore and tell your doc asap, Robert From C.C. No rain so far….. "A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without holes is a danish…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I’ve been on 60 mg. of Buspar a9the maximum dosage allowed) for 8 weeks. Anxiety is way down and the only side effect I get is some tingling in my hands, I think. M

Response:

I always say time and time again that these cocksucking shrinks prescribe WAY rto hign a dose to start out. Many people for whatever reason cannot tolerate these doses prescribed to start. My advise to you is to start out at 1/5 the dose your doctor prescribed.

Response:

thanks to all your responses.  should i cut the 5 mg in half and really slowly ramp up?  i would think that since i reacted so severly to 5 mgs. of buspar that started out on Effexor or Zoloft would have really upset me too.  thanks…randall

Response:

Question:

    Recently I read a study on sibutramine (Meridia).  I had read several others, but not recently.  In this study patients on 5 mg lost more weight than those on placebo.  Patients taking 20 mg lost far more than those taking 5 mg or placebo.  All patients were consuming structured diets, using behavioral modification, and mild exercise.     My question is this: since the drug appears useful in weight reduction (which I guess it’d have to be, to have ever been approved) why are so many people not seeing results with it?  I know a few people have seen results, but the majority, myself included, have been disappointed.     Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)?  I only took Meridia for 4 weeks; I didn’t want to fork out that much money for another month if it wasn’t doing anything.  Do the effects increase with time?  The study I refer to was only a 12-week study, although none of the participants  were currently using other meds, so phen users would have been excluded from the study.     Any ideas? Adria

Response:

I’ve been on 10mg per day of Meridia for two weeks and I’ve lost 8 pounds. As a purely subjective speculation, I wonder if it may be effective for so few people because it may work on just a single cause of obesity, that being due to an out-of-whack appetite. For as long as I can remember I’ve been able to look at what most people would consider a normal sized portion of food and know before I ever start eating that my appetite won’t be satisfied until I eat two or three times that amount. This is even more of a problem with sweet and/or fatty foods than it is with things like fruits and vegetables. I also tend to think about food very frequently throughout the day and as a result eat frequent snacks. This is independent of habit, mood, emotional or physical condition or any other variable I can think of. The bottom line is I just seem to be hard-wired to overeat. The Meridia seems to have almost magically "reset" my perception of how much food is enough. I prepare small portions of relatively healthful, varied kinds of foods, and even though sometimes my stomach feels physically hungry, I can easily resist what is now a much weakened urge to snack or overeat. And although it’s a distant secondary consideration, the price of the medication is a motivating factor, too! I’d hate to be spending so much money on something that turned out to be ineffective. Of course I realize 2 weeks isn’t very long, but since my doctor is concerned about my gradually but steadily increasing blood pressure and has told me a weight loss of even 10 or 20 pounds will likely prevent my having to control it with medication, even the weight I’ve already lost is of beneft.

<most of reply snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -4) In the Meridia studies, patients did the best on the larger doses (20 and 30 mg), but the blood pressure results were unacceptable. The largest dose Knoll could get approved was 15 mg. Of the surveys I’ve gotten (something like 300 of them), I’d say about 80 percent of the people were not satisfied with the results they got. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

Response:

   Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)?  

Here are a few reasons: 1) Phentermine and fenfluramine are releasers and reuptake inhibitors, Meridia is only a reuptake inhibitor of norepinephrine and serotonin. 2) Phentermine works on dopamine, whereas Meridia has a very small action on dopamine (which is one of the reasons some folks get sleepy on it). 3) Most people develop some what of a tolerance to obesity medications after a while. So if you develop a tolerance,  and you start taking a weaker drug, you are likely to see poor results. Of course, every one’s receptors are different, and YMMV. 4) In the Meridia studies, patients did the best on the larger doses (20 and 30 mg), but the blood pressure results were unacceptable. The largest dose Knoll could get approved was 15 mg. Of the surveys I’ve gotten (something like 300 of them), I’d say about 80 percent of the people were not satisfied with the results they got. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

Response:

I’ve been on 10mg per day of Meridia for two weeks and I’ve lost 8 pounds. As a purely subjective speculation, I wonder if it may be effective for so few people because it may work on just a single cause of obesity, that being due to an out-of-whack appetite.

Meridia doesn’t work on any cause of obesity, it’s an appetite suppressant, and the serotonin component *may* help with OCD. But the jury is still out on that. But phen/fen didn’t work on a cause of obesity either. At this point in time researchers conclude that a variety of "susceptibility genes" cause people to be obese. The only way you could accurately treat an obese person is by knowing what those genes were, and then develop drugs or gene therapy to treat. We are many, many years from that point. I can easily resist what is now a much weakened urge to snack or overeat. And although it’s a distant secondary consideration, the price of the medication is a motivating factor, too! I’d hate to be spending so much money on something that turned out to be ineffective.

I’m glad it’s working for you. There’s no arguing with success <G! Of course I realize 2 weeks isn’t very long

No it isn’t. Let me know how you feel in another six months. If you still think it’s effective. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Recently I read a study on sibutramine (Meridia).  I had read several others, but not recently.  In this study patients on 5 mg lost more weight than those on placebo.  Patients taking 20 mg lost far more than those taking 5 mg or placebo.  All patients were consuming structured diets, using behavioral modification, and mild exercise.    My question is this: since the drug appears useful in weight reduction (which I guess it’d have to be, to have ever been approved) why are so many people not seeing results with it?  I know a few people have seen results, but the majority, myself included, have been disappointed.    Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)?  I only took Meridia for 4 weeks; I didn’t want to fork out that much money for another month if it wasn’t doing anything.  Do the effects increase with time?  The study I refer to was only a 12-week study, although none of the participants  were currently using other meds, so phen users would have been excluded from the study.

My own belief is that the mechanisms involved are quite different.  If you were having success with phen/fen, this points heavily in the direction of problems with serotonin levels (Phen increases the release of serotonin, fen slows down the reabsobtion).  Meridia does not greatly affect the serotonin levels – it works (when it works) in other ways.  So it PROBABLY would be true in the other direction as well – IF you are helped by Meridia the odds would be good that Phen/Fen wouldn’t help you much (if you could get it).

Response:

My own belief is that the mechanisms involved are quite different.  If you were having success with phen/fen, this points heavily in the direction of problems with serotonin levels (Phen increases the release of serotonin, fen slows down the reabsobtion).

Phentermine is thought to act by releasing dopamine and retarding its reuptake.  I’ve never heard of it affecting serotonin. Meridia does not greatly affect the serotonin levels – it works (when it works) in other ways.

Siburamine is, like venlafaxine (Effexor), a NE/SRI, reducing the reuptake of both norepinephrine and serotonin. — Steve Dyer

Response:

Harold, I read what you wrote about Phentermine. You got it all wrong. I’d suggest reading the articles on Phentermine on the web site for Rx on the Internet. Love your Dutch name. I am Dutch also.   John Bowen   Nipomo, California   http://www.thegrid.net/jhbowen/life.htm  "Too bad the only people who know how to run this country are too   busy driving cabs and cutting hair." — George Burns

Response:

phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the  brain.

I always understood amphetamine, phentermine and the like worked (to the extent that we know how any of these drugs "work") by enhancing the release and reducing the reuptake of dopamine, not NE. — Steve Dyer

Response:

phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the  brain.

Response:

Steve, Since sibutramine inhibits re-uptake of serotonin and dopamine, do you think that Wellbutrin (buproprion) would also work for weight loss since it is a dopamine-reuptake inhibitor?   Thanks! Cindy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the  brain. I always understood amphetamine, phentermine and the like worked (to the extent that we know how any of these drugs "work") by enhancing the release and reducing the reuptake of dopamine, not NE. — Steve Dyer

Response:

Since sibutramine inhibits re-uptake of serotonin and dopamine, do you

Serotonin and norepinephrine. think that Wellbutrin (buproprion) would also work for weight loss since it is a dopamine-reuptake inhibitor?  

Although bupropion is one of the few antidepressants that rarely causes weight gain, and often causes a slight amount of weight loss in people taking it for depression, and even though it’s chemically related to the anorectic drug diethylpropion (Tenuate), I don’t think it’s a very powerful drug when it comes to weight loss. — Steve Dyer

Response:

If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia? I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in  weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it.

Response:

If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia?

Meridia product info specifically states "no Prozac." My doctor said the same thing. Weening off Prozac should help "crashes." This is conjecture…I "crashed" big time 4 weeks after stopping cold (only 20mg dose/day). It was not fun, but only lasted about 2 weeks. Waited another week before starting Meridia and am not having any difficulty. I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in  weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it.

– Mary

Response:

I don’t know about Meridia, but if it’s like Phentermine you CAN’T take Prozac with it. Please refer to an MIT study posted at: http://drugawareness.org/MIT.html Appetite suppressants are MAO inhibitors and cause an internal battlefield when paired with anti-depressant drugs such as Prozac (or fenfluramine, the phen/fen combo we all know and love.) From the article: "Maher said that the information that appears on drug labels, in the   Physician’s Desk Reference and on package inserts that reach   consumers is negotiated between the manufacturer and the    FDA."When the labels for phentermine and Sudafed were negotiated,    their MAO inhibitory activity was not known or appreciated or    considered to be important. And apparently there was no requirement    for phentermine’s label to be updated 20 years ago when it was first    shown to be an MAO inhibitor," he said.    The new findings also probably explain why only a handful of the tens     of millions of patients outside America who took drugs in the     fenfluramine family without phentermine developed pulmonary     hypertension or heart valve lesions, and almost all of these people were     also taking other drugs that we have found are unrecognized MAO      inhibitors," he said." So, my advice would be to find out if Meridia (like all other appetite suppresants is an MAO inhibitor). If so, Prozac and Meridia can be a dangerous combination. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia? Meridia product info specifically states "no Prozac." My doctor said the same thing. Weening off Prozac should help "crashes." This is conjecture…I "crashed" big time 4 weeks after stopping cold (only 20mg dose/day). It was not fun, but only lasted about 2 weeks. Waited another week before starting Meridia and am not having any difficulty. I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in  weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it. — Mary

Response:

I don’t know about Meridia, but if it’s like Phentermine you CAN’T take Prozac with it.

There’s no absolute contraindication in taking phentermine with Prozac. Please refer to an MIT study posted at: http://drugawareness.org/MIT.html Appetite suppressants are MAO inhibitors and cause an internal battlefield when paired with anti-depressant drugs such as Prozac (or fenfluramine, the phen/fen combo we all know and love.)

Appetite suppressants like amphetamine and phentermine are "MAO inhibitors" only in an extremely restricted sense; one with unproven clinical relevance, despite the claims on that web page. The reason you wouldn’t want to take Prozac and Meridia together is that they both act as serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (with Meridia also acting as a norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitor.) — Steve Dyer

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This sounds like it could be the start of agoraphobia. I’m surprised that the Xanax isn’t controlling it, although, I’m not sure if "reluctant" means you don’t go far from home at all or you do but don’t ‘enjoy’ the experience. Zoloft, like all anti-depressants, does take 4-8 weeks to work fully, however, Xanax’s action is almost immediate, usually 10-15 minutes. You haven’t stated quantities, but it seems that your dosage is too low.  In addition to altering the dose, you can also use Xanax as a ’security blanket,’ take some with you and if you feel the need take an additional tablet. Initially, you may need the extra Xanax, but in time just knowing its there is enough. The meds. used to treat agoraphobia are exactly the same as for anxiety, so are the dosages. The point is that agoraphobia is a manifestation of fear, ie: anxiety, so if you lessen/eliminate the anxiety then you also lessen/eliminate agoraphobia. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

I have been on a full treatment regimen of all the SSRI’s, while using Xanax and/or klonipin, and found the SSRI’s always, no matter how long I was on them for (sometimes up to two years at max dosage) created a mix of anxiety and fatigue. Now, YMMV, and this is just me, but I find the short acting benzo’s like Xanax, Serax, Ativan, the best. In particular Xanax. My belief is that, even though the drugs don’t stay in the body a long time, for somebody who wants to avoid depression caused by using benzo’s, this may be a good thing. The Xanax gets into the body, does it’s job of calming me down, and gets out. Just the chemical changes alone may be enough without having a constant stream of the drug running through your veins. Again, this is just my opinion and experience, and everybody IS different. Just thought I would share it. Peace James — "All of us get lost in the darkness… Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.." Neil Peart, Rush, "The Pass"

Response:

snipped I have been on a full treatment regimen of all the SSRI’s, while using Xanax and/or klonipin, and found the SSRI’s always, no matter how long I was on them for (sometimes up to two years at max dosage) created a mix of anxiety and fatigue. Now, YMMV, and this is just me, but I find the short acting benzo’s like Xanax, Serax, Ativan, the best. snipped James

Hi, James Obviously you’re a benzo type guy, rather than a SSRI type. SSRI’s by virtue of their narrow method of action, mostly only on serotonin and specifically 5HT3, don’t suit everyone. It may be that you need something which also directly inhibits the noradrenaline (norepinephrine) pathways. Have you tried the TCA’s or Effexor. The TCAs affect a fairly wide range of neurotransmitters, Effexor affects both Serotonin and noradren. Just a thought. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

Response:

James MacLachlan schreef: I have been on a full treatment regimen of all the SSRI’s, while using Xanax and/or klonipin, and found the SSRI’s always, no matter how long I was on them for (sometimes up to two years at max dosage) created a mix of anxiety and fatigue. Now, YMMV, and this is just me, but I find the short acting benzo’s like Xanax, Serax, Ativan, the best. In particular Xanax. My belief is that, even though the drugs don’t stay in the body a long time, for somebody who wants to avoid depression caused by using benzo’s, this may be a good thing. The Xanax gets into the body, does it’s job of calming me down, and gets out. Just the chemical changes alone may be enough without having a constant stream of the drug running through your veins. Again, this is just my opinion and experience, and everybody IS different. Just thought I would share it. Peace James

Obviously benzo’s agree better with you than SSRI’s. There may be several reasons for that which I don’t want to go into now.BTW Xanax is the only benzo with a slight antidepressant effect as well. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "All of us get lost in the darkness… Dreamers learn to steer by the stars.." Neil Peart, Rush, "The Pass"

Response:

Hi. I use Zoloft 200mg. daily and Klonopin at night 1 1/2 tablets and 1/2 tablet during the day. Klonopin is in the same family as Xanax. I am doing better, but I have severe panic attacks while driving. I only drive alone in my hometown, which isn’t that large. As far as going out I can with others but always have the what if’s with me at all times. I’m going to Californina with my mom and sister to visit my niece and I am scared to death. I’m not afraid of flying. I’m afraid of having an attack with no male figure around. But somehow I will make it through. I’ve been nervous about the trip for the month and a

Response:

Newtony 1 again. Yes the medication should treat both panic attacks & agoraphobia.

Response:

I am currently on a regimen of Xanax and Zoloft to treat panic disorder, no appreciable results as yet.  Because I am constantly anticipating another panic attack, I have become reluctant to travel too far from home – could this be a form of agoraphobia? Does anyone have experience with these meds for treatment of agoraphobia as well as for panic attacks?  Would appreciate all feedback. Thanks.

This sounds like it could be the start of agoraphobia. I’m surprised that the Xanax isn’t controlling it, although, I’m not sure if "reluctant" means you don’t go far from home at all or you do but don’t ‘enjoy’ the experience. Zoloft, like all anti-depressants, does take 4-8 weeks to work fully, however, Xanax’s action is almost immediate, usually 10-15 minutes. You haven’t stated quantities, but it seems that your dosage is too low.  In addition to altering the dose, you can also use Xanax as a ’security blanket,’ take some with you and if you feel the need take an additional tablet. Initially, you may need the extra Xanax, but in time just knowing its there is enough. The meds. used to treat agoraphobia are exactly the same as for anxiety, so are the dosages. The point is that agoraphobia is a manifestation of fear, ie: anxiety, so if you lessen/eliminate the anxiety then you also lessen/eliminate agoraphobia. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

Response:

Hi also was put on xanex for my panic and I did experience not wanting to leave my house.  My DR. put me on paxil but it is the same as zoloft these meds take about 2-3 weeks before you notice any differance.  What I did to overcome my agoraphobia was to try to do at least one small trip a day and then as the paxil started to work I would take a xanex and go on a little larger trip now I can do the small trips with no xanex and the larger trips with a little help. It is very frustrating being on zoloft/paxil because there is not an automatic result but don’t give up it will get better I was were you are 3 weeks ago and now I’m half way to feeling like my old self!!  You can do it to !  Good Luck!!

Response:

I would not call it agoraphobia, it sounds more like a secondary phobia to me.  With Panic and Anxiety these are not too uncommon.  I would think that the Zoloft would help here, but YMMV.  How long have you been on these meds?  Another possibility to look into to rid yourself of these fears would be CBT.  That has been the most helpful to me to get rid of my secondary phobias that have popped up since being diagnosed.  Of course YMMV. Good Luck d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently on a regimen of Xanax and Zoloft to treat panic disorder, no appreciable results as yet.  Because I am constantly anticipating another panic attack, I have become reluctant to travel too far from home – could this be a form of agoraphobia? Does anyone have experience with these meds for treatment of agoraphobia as well as for panic attacks?  Would appreciate all feedback. Thanks.

Response:

Milliestoy schreef: I am currently on a regimen of Xanax and Zoloft to treat panic disorder, no appreciable results as yet.  Because I am constantly anticipating another panic attack, I have become reluctant to travel too far from home – could this be a form of agoraphobia? Does anyone have experience with these meds for treatment of agoraphobia as well as for panic attacks?  Would appreciate all feedback. Thanks.

Yes, this is a form of agoraphobia. Anticipatory anxiety and agoraphobia are best treated by a combo of a benzo (Xanax) and CBT, which has great results if you work hard on exposure which isn’t always easy but often pays off. Since when are you taking Zoloft & Xanax? I think it would be a good advice to go out and find a clincical psychologist specialized in CBT. Research shows a very goods track record indeed. I myself was completely housebound for months, started CBT in January and travelled to France this summer without any trouble. Couldn’t have started CBT without my meds (imipramine and Xanax) though. Philip

Response:

I am currently on a regimen of Xanax and Zoloft to treat panic disorder, no appreciable results as yet.  Because I am constantly anticipating another panic attack, I have become reluctant to travel too far from home – could this be a form of agoraphobia? Does anyone have experience with these meds for treatment of agoraphobia as well as for panic attacks?  Would appreciate all feedback. Thanks.

Response: