Question:

Thanks .  I know I don’t have sinusitus or reflux.  the way the Dr. explained it to me is that certain fumes or irritants in the air act on my lungs like putting your hand in bleach water for a while would act on the skin on your hand.  I’ll contact my Dr. about stronger inhaled steroids and check into the place in Denver.  Great idea about an action plan.  Sometimes it’s hard to tell how much oxygen I’m getting because when I’m around the triggers it just keeps building. If I would wheeze right away I could tell better.  Usually I just get coated over in my lungs and my heart starts racing, trying to get enough air.  I usually can get air into my lungs but it doesn’t’ do a lot of good because everything is coated over.  Anyway, I usually have to stay away from the triggers, and then lay slanted, with my head down to get unplugged. Again thanks for the good information.  I’ve been feeling pretty stranded

Response:

    I have asthma that mimics bronchitis and goes into pneumonia, pluresy, and whatever else  they want to label it.  I take accolate, combivent, in the hand held and with a nebulizer depending on my choice, vanceril, guaifenicin, flonaise, and allegra-D on a regular basis.  Then I take oral steroids and appropriate anti-biotics when indicated.  Even with all this my asthma is not controlled,  I try as much as possible to live in a controlled environment.  I clean with baking soda and vinegar as all other cleaning supplies triggers an attack.  The Dr. says that my asthma appears to be triggered by a laundry list of substances that are caustic to me.  Is there anything else that is available to help me not be homebound?

Perhaps you need to increase your dose of inhaled steroids, Vanceril in your case. Per the NHLBI EPR2 Low Dose = 4-12 pf/day Moderate Dose = 12-20 pf/day High Dose 20 pf/day (typically to 40) Vanceril is a rather weak steroid inhaler. You could cut the number of puffs in half by going to Vanceril Double Strength; or switch to a higher strength one–Pulmicort or Flovent 220. These require even fewer puffs. The new guidelines recommend using a peak flow meter to monitor lung condition at home, and an Action Plan to increase meds when peak flows drop or symptoms increase. Many difficult cases of asthma are related either to sinusitis or GE reflux. Those with difficult asthma may benefit from a trip to National Jewish Center in Denver for a full evaluation. www.njc.org   800-222-LUNG Ellis

Response:

    I have asthma that mimics bronchitis and goes into pneumonia, pluresy, and whatever else  they want to label it.  I take accolate, combivent, in the hand held and with a nebulizer depending on my choice, vanceril, guaifenicin, flonaise, and allegra-D on a regular basis.  Then I take oral steroids and appropriate anti-biotics when indicated.  Even with all this my asthma is not controlled,  I try as much as possible to live in a controlled environment.  I clean with baking soda and vinegar as all other cleaning supplies triggers an attack.  The Dr. says that my asthma appears to be triggered by a laundry list of substances that are caustic to me.  Is there anything else that is available to help me not be homebound?

Response:

Question:

I am not a doctor. All medications work differently but Celexa has a good reputation for not having many side effects. NK "Tati" <azevedobor…@planet.nl

wrote in message

news:339dd1ca.0401121648.9a00fa3@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hi, after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out that i felt better with them then without them. even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 years ago. since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and several low education – low pay jobs) because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him to give me some lighter stuff. so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered here. i simply cannot get it here! the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. what then? zoloft? Celexa? someone has some nice idea? and: i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of dizzyness…. i just dont know what to do now…. txs 4 any help! claudia

Response:

Hi Claudia, I’m sorry that you’re seeing the side effects.  Hopefully, they’ll get better with time. Of the SSRI’s, I’ve found that Celexa and Lexapro to be low on side effects and effective.   YMMV. Welcome to the group. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tati wrote:

hi, after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out that i felt better with them then without them. even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 years ago. since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and several low education – low pay jobs) because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him to give me some lighter stuff. so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered here. i simply cannot get it here! the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. what then? zoloft? Celexa? someone has some nice idea? and: i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of dizzyness…. i just dont know what to do now…. txs 4 any help! claudia

Response:

Hi Claudia I am on 150mg Efexor, venlafaxine. I have heard about its side effects but havent really had any. When I first started taking it I got weird dreams but they went after a while. I am told thats true for most of the side effects of Effexor, they go after your body gets used to it. Efexor has helped me alot and i feel much happier. Previously i was on prozac and it did nothing for me at all ( Lawrence "Tati" <azevedobor…@planet.nl

wrote in message

news:339dd1ca.0401121648.9a00fa3@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hi, after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out that i felt better with them then without them. even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 years ago. since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and several low education – low pay jobs) because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him to give me some lighter stuff. so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered here. i simply cannot get it here! the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. what then? zoloft? Celexa? someone has some nice idea? and: i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of dizzyness…. i just dont know what to do now…. txs 4 any help! claudia

Response:

Hey Loz, How exactly do you feel effexor helps you? With the thoughts? the mood? the anxiety? or a bit of everything? I am finding it useless for the ocd..great for the depression and the withdrawal effects are awful.. Thanks for any help you can give! Am. xxx "Loz" <lawrence.whale@ntlworld-REMOVE_THIS-.com

wrote in message

news:CZTMb.2666$YV1.214@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Claudia I am on 150mg Efexor, venlafaxine. I have heard about its side effects but havent really had any. When I first started taking it I got weird dreams

but

they went after a while. I am told thats true for most of the side effects of Effexor, they go after your body gets used to it. Efexor has helped me alot and i feel much happier. Previously i was on prozac and it did

nothing > for me at all ( > Lawrence > "Tati" <azevedobor…@planet.nl

wrote in message

> news:339dd1ca.0401121648.9a00fa3@posting.google.com… > > hi, > > after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad > > relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out > > that i felt better with them then without them. > > even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 > > years ago. > > since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, > > able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my > > level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and > > several low education – low pay jobs) > > because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was > > taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i > > consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him > > to give me some lighter stuff. > > so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. > > back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered > > here. i simply cannot get it here! > > the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. > > well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. > > what then? > > zoloft? > > Celexa? > > someone has some nice idea? > > and: > > i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it > > instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of > > dizzyness…. > > i just dont know what to do now…. > > txs 4 any help! > > claudia

Response:

Am. Hi, Effexor has mainly helped me with my depression. 3 months ago I felt terrible and today I feel more like my old self, generally feel fairly happy ) I think it has helped my anxiety a little but I still get quite anxiuos at times. I dont think that it has helped with the OCD thoughts much. Thankfully I dont get any effexor side effects now. I think I will be sticking with this AD for the time being. It would be nice to be able to take a pill that gets rid of the OCD but in my case, mostly pure OCD, I dont think this will happen. I have just got to learn to control my mind through CBT which will be quite an effort but worth it in the end. Maybe another drug to help with my nerves/anxiety/worry might be useful, I will be asking my pdoc next week. Take care Lawrence "Pola_Pink" <pola_pin…@no.spam.hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:Qk5Pb.212$Jc6.4668@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hey Loz, How exactly do you feel effexor helps you? With the thoughts? the mood?

the

anxiety? or a bit of everything? I am finding it useless for the

ocd..great > for the depression and the withdrawal effects are awful.. > Thanks for any help you can give! > Am. > xxx > "Loz" <lawrence.whale@ntlworld-REMOVE_THIS-.com

wrote in message

> news:CZTMb.2666$YV1.214@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net… > > Hi Claudia > > I am on 150mg Efexor, venlafaxine. I have heard about its side effects but

havent really had any. When I first started taking it I got weird dreams but they went after a while. I am told thats true for most of the side

effects

of Effexor, they go after your body gets used to it. Efexor has helped

me > > alot and i feel much happier. Previously i was on prozac and it did > nothing > > for me at all ( > > Lawrence > > "Tati" <azevedobor…@planet.nl

wrote in message

> > news:339dd1ca.0401121648.9a00fa3@posting.google.com… > > > hi, > > > after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad > > > relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out > > > that i felt better with them then without them. > > > even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 > > > years ago. > > > since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, > > > able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my > > > level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and > > > several low education – low pay jobs) > > > because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was > > > taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i > > > consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him > > > to give me some lighter stuff. > > > so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. > > > back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered > > > here. i simply cannot get it here! > > > the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. > > > well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. > > > what then? > > > zoloft? > > > Celexa? > > > someone has some nice idea? > > > and: > > > i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it > > > instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of > > > dizzyness…. > > > i just dont know what to do now…. > > > txs 4 any help! > > > claudia

Response:

hi, after a post natale depression with some agravations (like bad relationships and such) i started taking antidepressants and found out that i felt better with them then without them. even so, i didnt take any for 7 years and started with paroxetine 4 years ago. since then i am able to have a very good relation with my lovely son, able to cope with life, lead a happy life and have a job that is on my level for the first time in my life ( i am 44!, 2 universities and several low education – low pay jobs) because of some worries about the side effects of the paroxetine i was taking, like heart palpitations, head eaches and weight gain, i consulted a psychiatrist in brazil (where i came from ) and asked him to give me some lighter stuff. so, he prescribed Ixel/ milnacipran. back in the netherlands: this is a medicine that is not registered here. i simply cannot get it here! the doctor here told me to take effexor instead. well, effexor’s nick name is " side effexor" what does not inspire me. what then? zoloft? Celexa? someone has some nice idea? and: i just started with Ixel/ milnacipran 4 days ago. i am taking it instead of paroxetine. well, i can hardly stand up because of dizzyness…. i just dont know what to do now…. txs 4 any help! claudia

Response:

Question:

Hey moron, solar cells work at night too! We have these little things called batteries, you fucking idiot. "Bill Bonde, one of many Fair and Balanced Conservatives, AKA Spike, currently brunching on extra juicy ortolans, where do you put the beaks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout. I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups. Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust. Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient. If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…"

Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.

I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal.

Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.

Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  

Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.

If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again.

Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?

The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" "San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?" The latest bogus fossil-nuke blackout: this grid should not exist by Harvey Wasserman, August 15, 2003 This is the fourth—and worst—completely unnecessary major regional blackout in this country in forty years, dating back to 1965. It’s scope—from Detroit to Ottawa to New York and New Jersey—is absolutely awesome, especially since it’s due to total stupidity and corruption. This does not count the blackouts that raged through California in 2000-2001.  Those were "blackmails," set by Enron and the other Bush gas cronies to rip $60 billion out of the state, leading to, among other things, the impending ouster of Gov. Gray Davis. When the lights went out, Davis kissed the feet of Southern California Edison’s John Bryson, who engineered a deregulation bill that gouged $30 billion out of the ratepayers for the state’s failed nukes.  That opened the gates for the gas pirates to steal yet another $60 billion. Davis got caught in the backdraft. The culprits in this latest northeastern disaster are basically the same—the barons of fossil and nuclear power and their cronies in the electric utility business. Their "weapon" is an ancient electric grid that’s obsolete if not obscene.   It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants to buildings that waste massive amounts of energy and generate none. That the grid will crash again and again and yet again is absolutely certain.  The only question is who are the real terrorists:  errant crazies who blow things up, or entrenched interests that refuse to change? The technology now exists to transcend this mess.  In the mid 1990s California’s green energy advocates proposed a 600-megawatt mosaic of solar, wind and other renewable generators that would have entirely prevented the fake deregulatory crisis of 2000-1.  It was approved by the California Public Utilities Commission, but then killed by Southern California Edison and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Today, the Bush Administration wants to further subsidize its fossil/utility friends with a bad energy bill, and by pouring billions into "upgrading" the electric grid.  The only thing certain is that every cent of that money will be wasted. In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.  The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.  Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.  Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs. We need public demand and fully funded production capacity.  And to stop repeating the same mistakes because the utility and fossil/nuke guys fund the politicians in power. This isn’t rocket science.  It’s just common solar sense, known to all since 1952. Harvey Wasserman is author of THE LAST ENERGY WAR and senior editor of www.freepress.org. CONTACT THE FREE PRESS: PRINT: 1240 Bryden Road Columbus, Ohio 43209 Ph/Fx 614.253.2571 SOURCE: http://www.freepress.org/columns.php?strFunc=display&strID=735&strYea… Author=7 = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT’S GOING ON? = = = = More information: Daily Online 2 hour radio show reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org = = = = Sorry we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email For more information: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)

Response:

Question:

commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)

ROTFL!  What a load of BS … —   -john

Response:

Recent studies have shown SJW to be equally as effective as Zoloft (sertraline) and Prozac (fluoxetine) in mild to moderate depression. It also seems to have a better side-effect profile. See the references below: – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Equivalence of St John’s wort extract (Ze 117) and fluoxetine: a randomized, controlled study in mild-moderate depression. Schrader E Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2000 Mar;15(2):61-8 Treatment with St John’s wort extract tablets (hypericum Ze 117) and the commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine was compared in patients with mild-moderate depression with entry Hamilton Depression Scale (HAM-D) (21-item) in the range 16-24, in a randomized, double-blind, parallel group comparison in 240 subjects; fluoxetine: 114 (48%), hypericum: 126 (52%). After 6 weeks’ treatment, mean HAM-D at endpoint decreased to 11.54 on hypericum and to 12.20 on fluoxetine (P < 0.09), while mean Clinical Global Impression (CGI) item I (severity) was significantly (P < 0.03) superior on hypericum, as was the responder rate (P = 0.005). Hypericum safety was substantially superior to fluoxetine, with the incidence of adverse events being 23% on fluoxetine and 8% on hypericum. The commonest events on fluoxetine were agitation (8%), GI disturbances (6%), retching (4%), dizziness (4%), tiredness, anxiety/nervousness and erectile dysfunction (3% each), while on hypericum only GI disturbances (5%) had an incidence greater than 2%. We concluded that hypericum and fluoxetine are equipotent with respect to all main parameters used to investigate antidepressants in this population. Although hypericum may be superior in improving the responder rate, the main difference between the two treatments is safety. Hypericum was superior to fluoxetine in overall incidence of side-effects, number of patients with side-effects and the type of side-effect reported. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "Comparison of an extract of hypericum (LI 160) and sertraline in the treatment of depression: a double-blind, randomized pilot study." Brenner R, Azbel V, Madhusoodanan S, Pawlowska M Clin Ther 2000 Apr;22(4):411-9 BACKGROUND: Hypericum (St. John’s wort) has been shown to be as efficacious and well tolerated as standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression but has not been compared with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). OBJECTIVE: This study compared hypericum and the SSRI sertraline in the treatment of depression. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized study conducted in a community hospital, 30 male and female outpatients (19 women, 11 men; mean age, 45.5 years) with mild to moderate depression received 600 mg/d of a standardized extract of hypericum (LI 160) or 50 mg/d sertraline for I week, followed by hypericum 900 mg/d or sertraline 75 mg/d for 6 weeks. RESULTS: The severity of symptoms, as assessed by scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Clinical Global Impression scale, was significantly reduced in both treatment groups (P < 0.01). Clinical response (defined as a or =50% reduction in HAM-D scores) was noted in 47% of patients receiving hypericum and 40% of those receiving sertraline. The difference was not statistically significant. Both agents were well tolerated. A post hoc power analysis indicated that failure to reach statistical significance between treatments resulted primarily from an absence of clinical differences rather than the small sample size. CONCLUSION: The hypericum extract was at least as effective as sertraline in the treatment of mild to moderate depression in a small group of outpatients.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

com for the reply address.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety.

Here is some info. I found on St. John’s Wort and OCD: "Gridrunner: Have you heard of some success using St. John’s Wort or 5-htp to lessen OCD? Dr. Jenike: Yes, there are a few cases where St. John’s Wort has helped OCD. In Germany, there are dozens of studies using SJW for mild to moderate depression, but its use for treating OCD is relatively new. I have tried it in quite a few patients, with not much success. But then again, most of the patients I see now, are on the more severe end of the spectrum." – http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/OCD/site/transcripts/obsession s_ocd.htm See also: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/stjohnocd.htm

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The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression?

Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

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Dear R.P.,      I have used Kava for anxiety and it does help though if your anxiety is high it may take a few days for it to really catch up with you.  To be on it is to be mellow but alert at the same time so I think it would help with OCD.                    Rusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

I had a lot of luck with Kava Kava for anxiety, but it brought back eczema that had lain dormant for over 6 years (and which I have yet to get rid of). Take care if you have any dermatological problems.

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My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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In article <   "Bill & Ida Kern" < My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? The Wort (like LSD; magic mushrooms; kava-kava) open-up the psyche for deeper investigation… rather than offer a cure-all. Later Gerrit

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Question:

Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA

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Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA

Can I just send you pictures instead? -cg

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA Can I just send you pictures instead? -cg What, no web-cam?

i dunno , i’m not done yet . but it don’t feel empty . —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA Can I just send you pictures instead? -cg

What, no web-cam?

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Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.

As a 70 year old man, I am pleased to report (using various methods) that I have this experience approximately 75 times per month. How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? I take about 6 kinds of medication and it has slowed me down considerably as you can see by my number. And I ask you, docz, can you top this?

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I see no one has dared to give a straight answer on this question.  I wonder why? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA

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Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA

  Orion The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.        Walden * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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I would give an answer, but Mary Beth has me handcuffed under her desk, and I can’t reach the number keys.

+ I see no one has dared to give a straight answer on this question.  I + wonder why? +Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you +experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any +medication you have taken affected this rate? + +TIA — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

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i want to see the prevalence sexual disinterest side effect of meds for depression. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -x-no-archive: yes ummmm…why do you wanna know. and  why should we wanna answer? (besides – how do you quantify this when  multiples are taken into consideration?) I see no one has dared to give a straight answer on this question.  I wonder why? Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA – Sasha "I must live this chaos"            - Anais Nin

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female. never achieved orgasm but still have hormones…. sex? whenever i want it, usually a fair bit at the moment. do not get me on the subject of sex when i have work to do… — And if I was an angel I could fly over Jordan And I wouldn’t need no Greyhound to save my soul But maybe that’s a good thing because I’ll be home before I know And if I was an angel I’d have a long way to go — Matraca Berg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate? TIA

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lines of text: Please answer honestly.  What is your gender and how often do you experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month.  How have any medication you have taken affected this rate?

To have sex you must have a partner to do it with.  whether you a partner or not will affect the frequency of your sex much more than any level of depression would. truthseeker (Don’t forget to change header to seekertruth0 at mindspring.com if replying by email.)

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+Please answer honestly. What is your gender and how often do you +experience orgasm (any means to achieve it) per month. How have any +medication you have taken affected this rate? + +TIA

Well, I’m male, 22 years old, been diagnosed with dysthemia, and i’m on 225mg of Effexor Daily… With regards to sex, well, i’ll just say, i rub my firemans purple helmet till he spits in my eye(!)  one or twice a week, (8 to 10 times a month) or if i’m feeling fruity… I was one Seroxat once, which stopped my fireman sneezing!!!!!! (Not a very pleasant side effect, let me tell you). Oh, one more thing, i’ve also got a blue dick, as i’m a tight fisted wanker!!!!! DepressedNudist Before you buy.

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Sorry to topple you Stan…. but I have approximately (give or take a hundred) 289 & 1/2 orgasms with my g/f – all of course simultaneously with her! per week! This is despite the fact she lives on another continent! We must just be really good at sex!  :) God Im good! As is she! Lee * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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I would give an answer, but Mary Beth has me handcuffed under her desk, and I can’t reach the number keys.

Shut up or I’ll tighten them again. Mary Beth

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Sorry to topple you Stan…. but I have approximately (give or take a hundred) 289 & 1/2 orgasms with my g/f – all of course simultaneously with her! per week! This is despite the fact she lives on another continent! We must just be really good at sex!  :) God Im good! As is she!

I yield to a champion.:-)) Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lee * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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very, very easily thank you very much. And no, i don’t need *your* help so stay the hell away from me *plonk* away you go — *** DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND; THE FAULT IS WITH REALITY! Adam came first. But then, men always do. God created men because a vibrator couldn’t mow the lawn so you can make me cum — that doesn’t make you jesus

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gnomie said: <<never achieved orgasm Oh, that is so sad. How can you put up with that kind of life?

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Gnomie said: <<never achieved orgasm Oh, that is so sad. How can you put up with that kind of life?

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Question:

they often times don`t know how to treat anxiety disorders effectively. Benzos, also known as tranqulizers, are one of the most effective meds for anxiety and are least likely to cause sexual dysfunction.

in addition the tricyclic antidepressants work better more often for migraine type headaches, neuralgia and pain then the ssri types you have taken and have much less sexually disruptive side effects-drugs like tofranil or elavil, pamelor and sinequan are ones to ask your doc about LM

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:Hi, :My doctor has diagnosed me with General Anxiety Disorder. She has been :trying to treat me for 5 months now. I have been on Zoloft, Wellbutrin, :Lexapro and now Effexor. All of which ruined my sex life! The only time :I was ok was when I was just on the Wellbutrin but then I needed the ther for the anxiety. My doctor started me on these types of pills :cause I was having headaches that she believes is caused from stress and :anxiety. My question to all of you is….Is there an anxiety pill that :does not have sexual side affects? Is there a pill that is helping :anyone in that department? I go back to the doctor on Wednesday to see :what she is gonna do with me now. I’m so tired of going once a month. :The headaches are better tho. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! :Christi Dear Christi, It sounds like your MD, not a psych doctor, is treating your anxiety disorder? If that`s the case, I suggest you find a psych doctor that specializes in anxiety disorders to be treated. While MD`s may be well intentioned, they often times don`t know how to treat anxiety disorders effectively. Benzos, also known as tranqulizers, are one of the most effective meds for anxiety and are least likely to cause sexual dysfunction. Take care Jackie ~*~All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another~*~         ~Anatole France~

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Hi, My doctor has diagnosed me with General Anxiety Disorder. She has been trying to treat me for 5 months now. I have been on Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Lexapro and now Effexor. All of which ruined my sex life! The only time I was ok was when I was just on the Wellbutrin but then I needed the other for the anxiety. My doctor started me on these types of pills cause I was having headaches that she believes is caused from stress and anxiety. My question to all of you is….Is there an anxiety pill that does not have sexual side affects? Is there a pill that is helping anyone in that department? I go back to the doctor on Wednesday to see what she is gonna do with me now. I’m so tired of going once a month. The headaches are better tho. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! Christi

Response:

Hi, My doctor has diagnosed me with General Anxiety Disorder. She has been trying to treat me for 5 months now. I have been on Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Lexapro and now Effexor. All of which ruined my sex life! The only time I was ok was when I was just on the Wellbutrin but then I needed the other for the anxiety. My doctor started me on these types of pills cause I was having headaches that she believes is caused from stress and anxiety. My question to all of you is….Is there an anxiety pill that does not have sexual side affects? Is there a pill that is helping anyone in that department? I go back to the doctor on Wednesday to see what she is gonna do with me now. I’m so tired of going once a month. The headaches are better tho. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! Christi

Hi Christi, I’m on Xanax which is a benzo (tranquilizer) and has no sexual side effects at all…In fact there is no weaning onto this class of drug, and no need to wait days/weeks to feel a difference. It will take effect within 10-50 minutes. It simply slows down your nervous system. The other popular drugs in this class are Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, etc…BTW Tension headaches are part of my anxiety… Good Luck with your doc, Kevin…

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I am 31 years old and recently began taking Aropax (paroxetine like paxil) to combat anxiety and depression that I’ve had as long as I can remember. GAD isolates me from people (no friends, no relationships) and it was my hope that the medication would allow me to enjoy being around people so I could start dating and going out.  Problem is after 5 days, Aropax has taken away my sex drive and I can’t achieve orgasm.  This is very depressing and I don’t see how I can meet a woman in this condition.  My self-esteem is zero. Also my family has a big reunion coming up – mostly relations I hardly know, and I am worried they will make me feel inadequate (which I cannot handle) but I don’t see how I can get out of it without offending anyone. Any Ideas? David

Response:

: I am 31 years old and recently began taking Aropax (paroxetine like paxil) : to combat anxiety and depression that I’ve had as long as I can remember. : GAD isolates me from people (no friends, no relationships) and it was my : hope that the medication would allow me to enjoy being around people so I : could start dating and going out.  Problem is after 5 days, Aropax has taken : away my sex drive and I can’t achieve orgasm.  This is very depressing and I : don’t see how I can meet a woman in this condition.  My self-esteem is zero. : : Also my family has a big reunion coming up – mostly relations I hardly know, : and I am worried they will make me feel inadequate (which I cannot handle) : but I don’t see how I can get out of it without offending anyone. Hi David, It takes a month or so for your body to adjust to paroxetine, and the side effects may only be temporary. I know, since I used the same med myself and experienced temporary sexual side effects too. It’s also natural for men to get excessively self conscious and anxious about their sexual status, and such anxiety can interfere with sex drive too. Sometimes it’s good to take a vacation from orgasms for a few days; which can be an aphrodisiac. Also, it’s important to remember that no med can completely solve anxiety and depression on its own. Living with anxiety and depression for years does leave psychological scars which take time and effort to heal. Even with a good med, recovery can be a difficult and awkward process of trying new things and testing our limits. It’s important not to rush the process; just embrace challenges at a pace that is right for you. Push yourself, but be patient with yourself too. We all fall down from time to time, but it’s how often we get back up that really matters. Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

Hello David, Paroxetine IMO is very difficult to go on for most people.  In my experience I had very similar problems sexually as you do now.  I found that over time my sex drive returned (this happened once I was at my current dosage for about a month).  One question I would have for you is what is your current dosage?  I know starting too high will make these side effect worse.  As far as a possible solution to your problem, one option is to get a prescription for Welbutrin, to take with your Paroxetine.  This has been known to knock this problem out for many people.  Hope this helps. Good Luck! d

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 31 years old and recently began taking Aropax (paroxetine like paxil) to combat anxiety and depression that I’ve had as long as I can remember. GAD isolates me from people (no friends, no relationships) and it was my hope that the medication would allow me to enjoy being around people so I could start dating and going out.  Problem is after 5 days, Aropax has taken away my sex drive and I can’t achieve orgasm.  This is very depressing and I don’t see how I can meet a woman in this condition.  My self-esteem is zero. Also my family has a big reunion coming up – mostly relations I hardly know, and I am worried they will make me feel inadequate (which I cannot handle) but I don’t see how I can get out of it without offending anyone. Any Ideas? David

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Question:

Snip  I don’t know what she thought about that but now she has put me on 50mg of zoloft but did give me the .75 a day of xanex too. I guess to make a long story short is what is this zoloft and will it help with the panic attacks?  I seem to be ok with the xanex.  I am so confused about all these meds.

Ara, Zoloft is an anti depressent in the same family as Prozac (SSRIs).  It is commonly used for anxiety/panic with a lot of success.  However, as with most anti depressents, you may feel worse before you feel better.  It’s a common practice to perscribe a little Xanax to help out while getting past the initial anti depressent adjustment period.  Also, the initial adjustment period can be as long as 8 weeks.  So, after 8 weeks, if the Zoloft isn’t helping, it probably won’t help and it’s time to try another med.  People commonly see an improvement prior to 8 weeks though.  Many people have been helped by Zoloft, but a minority are not (I can’t take SSRIs because I get rare side effects).  You should have got a sheet from your pharmacist listing the common side effects, you should look those over so you don’t freak if one of them happens. While Xanax is very effective, and people who criticise Xanax in this NG usually get a lot of flack, it has the potential for users to develop a "dependency" on it, meaning you can’t quit taking it after you’ve used it for a while without withdraw symptoms; it must be slowly weaned off.  So, in parts of the medical comunity, Xanax is not politically correct.  Also, people who have a history of substance abuse are more likely to abuse Xanax; but this is rare for most panic/anxiety people.  The irony is that any drug that crosses the blood brain barrier like Zoloft, Xanax, Prozac, most beta blockers, etc. can’t be just stopped, they must be weaned off.  So what makes Xanax so bad?  I’m not sure. Odds are good that Zoloft will help you.  If it doesn’t or you can’t take the side effects (often they stop after a while) there’s lots of other meds to try. BTW, .75 mg of Xanax / day is a low dose, you may find yourself needing more later if the Zoloft does not kick in soon enough, be sure to see your Dr. if this happens. Your Dr. seems to be following a common strategy for anxiety/panic that’s helpful for many people.  You’ll just have to wait and see if it works for you. God bless,   Mark Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, New here.  Don’t want to start the newbie stuff.  Just had a couple of questions if you all could help out.  To give a quick recap of what has been going on, I ended up in the ER last month with chest pains (nothing wrong with the heart)and tingly sensations in my neck, head and eyes. The ER doc put me on .5 mg of xanex 4 times a day. Said that it was probably a panic attack. Then he told me to see my regular doc in a couple of days and I did and she put me on .25mg 2 to 3 times a day. She basically said just take the two.  I didn’t seem enough so I took 3 a day and that seemed to be better.  Anyway, went today to get a refill. I told her that the 2 a day wasn’t enough and that I was taking 3.  I told her that the tingly sensations would start coming back if I only took the 2.  I also told her that the more stressed I got the worse the tingly sensations.  I don’t know what she thought about that but now she has put me on 50mg of zoloft but did give me the .75 a day of xanex too. I guess to make a long story short is what is this zoloft and will it help with the panic attacks?  I seem to be ok with the xanex.  I am so confused about all these meds. Thanks for all the help, Ara

Hi Ara & welcome to ASAP! Many doctors have trouble prescribing Xanax and other benzodiazepines because they mistakenly think they are *addictive*. This is not the case. Benzos, like almost all psychotropic and many non-psychotropic meds, will cause some *dependance* which means that you’d better not stop them suddenly but taper off slowly to avoid withdrawal symptoms. Xanax can be taken in two ways: *as needed* (when you feel a PA coming on) or as a maintenance med in a regular daily dose. Xanax is a fast- but short acting med, it works for 5 hours average which means that appr. 5 hours after having taking one your body will warn you that it’s time for another dose. To prescribe Xanax in whatever dose to be taken twice a day is not very sensible becausae 24 hours divided by 5 = (more than) 4 times. The average therapeutic dose of Xanax is anywhere between 2-6 mgs. Its most important side effect is *sedation* which will cease or at least diminish a lot after your body has become accustomed to it. Obviously your doctor feels not comfortable treating you with Xanax alone and also maybe is undersubscribing so she gave you Zoloft which is an antidepressant from the SSRI-group which are often used for PD and are first choice meds just like the benzos are. AD’s will worsen your anxiety in the beginning and sometimes throw in some weird initial side effects of their own which is a reason to *start low – go slow*. Starting someone on 50 mgs of Zoloft is asking for trouble. Best is 12,5 mgs for a week and then slowly raise it in 12,5 mgs increments a week until therapeutic dose is reached. In itself the choice of Zoloft isn’t a bad one and the combo of an SSRI and a benzo is a good one (Xanax will also help avoiding or minimizing initial Zoloft side effects). Philip

Response:

Hi all, New here.  Don’t want to start the newbie stuff.  Just had a couple of questions if you all could help out.  To give a quick recap of what has been going on, I ended up in the ER last month with chest pains (nothing wrong with the heart)and tingly sensations in my neck, head and eyes. The ER doc put me on .5 mg of xanex 4 times a day. Said that it was probably a panic attack. Then he told me to see my regular doc in a couple of days and I did and she put me on .25mg 2 to 3 times a day. She basically said just take the two.  I didn’t seem enough so I took 3 a day and that seemed to be better.  Anyway, went today to get a refill. I told her that the 2 a day wasn’t enough and that I was taking 3.  I told her that the tingly sensations would start coming back if I only took the 2.  I also told her that the more stressed I got the worse the tingly sensations.  I don’t know what she thought about that but now she has put me on 50mg of zoloft but did give me the .75 a day of xanex too. I guess to make a long story short is what is this zoloft and will it help with the panic attacks?  I seem to be ok with the xanex.  I am so confused about all these meds. Thanks for all the help, Ara Before you buy.

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Question:

Hi all, My fiance has been put on Zoloft for anxiety.  He’s taking 25 mg daily, which is half of the proscribed dosage, but he feels it’s working well enough to stick with that dosage.  His neuro put him on nortriptyline last week for migraines and said "it tends to work well in conjunction with zoloft."  Problem is the drowsiness it’s causing is leaving him a zombie, and he feels the migraines are better than the drowsiness.  Furthermore, he looked in his drug reference book and, according to that, zoloft and nortriptyline do EXACTLY the same thing in terms of serotonin reuptake. So my questions are: Why would a neuro prescribe nortriptyline and zoloft at the same time?  Do they really do the same thing/is there any benefit to taking them both at the same time?  Is anyone out there taking zoloft and nortriptyline together?  And–probably most important–how long can he expect the drowsiness to last?  He’s already decided to quit the nortriptyline altogether and double the zoloft dose, but we’re both sort of wondering if that’s the right thing to do. — someone

Response:

Okay, let me clarify.  First, he only took nortriptyline for about 4 days, as it was *just* prescribed by his neuro.  So the fact that he quit "cold turkey" isn’t really significant IMO.  The neuro did indeed tell him it would take about 6 weeks for any "noticeable effects," and that the drowsiness would last maybe 2-4 weeks; but he decided that he could not deal with it for that long.  (BTW he was taking it at bedtime and then sleeping for 10+ hours, but was still like a zombie the next day.)  As for the zoloft, that was prescribed by his psychiatrist for anxiety.  He started that in the usual fashion with an extremely small dose and worked up to .25 mg, which is half of the proscribed "full dose."  His shrink had intended for him to advance to the full dose, but he stopped at .25 mg because he felt it was doing a very good job with the anxiety at that level, so taking more was not necessary (he discussed this with his shrink just last week, and even he felt that was pretty sound logic).  Then when he read that zoloft and nortriptyline do the same thing, he decided to drop the nortryptiline and up the zoloft to the originally intended dose. Incidentally, *now* he’s not sure he’s even *having* migraines anymore; he says now that he thinks about it, he can’t remember the last time he had a *real* migraine.  He has some of the symptoms all the time, like flashing lights, etc., but as far as *pain* goes, he’s beginning to think that those are either tension headaches or Excedrin rebound headaches–since they don’t occur just on one side like his usual migraines.  Seems like the *possible* (we hope) disappearance of full-blown migraines correlates pretty well with when he started taking zoloft.  We’ve got our fingers crossed. And here’s an interesting side note: Last October he underwent a sleep study to test for possible sleep apnea.  He has serious problems getting up in the morning, and is physically tired all day regardless of how much sleep he gets.  The study did not turn up any signs of sleep apnea, but did show an early-onset of REM which, according to the neuro, is common in people who suffer from depression (which causes which, nobody knows).  BUT he does not suffer from depression at all, at least no outward signs.  Is it possible to have "clinical depression" without *ever* feeling depressed?  Anyway the neuro said nortryptiline is especially good at treating depression, and "works well in conjunction with zoloft."  Too bad he couldn’t handle the drowsiness. BTW, he is still taking zoloft at bedtime, with xanax to counteract the jitters.  I guess the nortryptiline did *too good* of a job counteracting them. Whew!  So then, you seem to have a certain amount of medical background. What do you think of all this? — Ninerfan (a.k.a. Someone–now posting from her own computer instead of her boyfriend’s)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zoloft (a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a/k/a SSRI)often causes "jitters," and difficulty in getting to sleep or staying asleep. The sedating tricyclic/heterocyclic(TCAs or HCAs) antidepressants (ADs) cause drowsiness or deep sleep without addiction. (Some drugs in that class aren’t sedating.) Both are useful for migraine prophylaxis (px); ergo, each prescribed together, with extra potential to prevent migraines, increase your actual physical pain tolerance, increase the effectiveness of analgesics and each (with luck) canceling out some of the side effects of each other. This is awfully clever prescribing, actually, and I wish my docs had thought of it! Pamelor (nortriptyline) is a second-generation tricyclic, a direct derivative of Elavil or Tofranil (I forget which)–sort of a pre-digested Elavil/Tofranil. First-generation drugs go through a bunch o’ changes as they’re metabolized. The thinking was that for depression, if you could give patients something which was farther along in the process of conversion to a substance useful to the body, the AD would work faster. This might mean patients wouldn’t have to wait 4-6 weeks to see if the AD would work. Unfortunately, second- and third-generation ADs were no faster at lifting depressions. However, they had fewer serious side effects for many people while still maintaining the effectiveness of the older drugs for many people. Pamelor is generally prescribed before bedtime and Zoloft in the morning. Anxiety disorders generally don’t respond well to the TCAs or HCAs, but many of the SSRIs and the neither/or ADs (Desyrel/trazodone, for instance) are very useful in obsess.-comp. dis., gen’l anx. dis., etc. ABSOLUTELY do not d/c nortriptyline abruptly!!! This is very important. And NEVER double the dosage of a psych medicine on your own. Some cause heart arrythmias, some cause whacko neurological problems, wierd thoughts/behavior, etc. Call the doctor and state the complaint. Hi all, My fiance has been put on Zoloft for anxiety.  He’s taking 25 mg daily, which is half of the proscribed dosage, but he feels it’s working well enough to stick with that dosage.  His neuro put him on nortriptyline last week for migraines and said "it tends to work well in conjunction with zoloft."  Problem is the drowsiness it’s causing is leaving him a zombie, and he feels the migraines are better than the drowsiness.  Furthermore, he looked in his drug reference book and, according to that, zoloft and nortriptyline do EXACTLY the same thing in terms of serotonin reuptake. So my questions are: Why would a neuro prescribe nortriptyline and zoloft at the same time?  Do they really do the same thing/is there any benefit to taking them both at the same time?  Is anyone out there taking zoloft and nortriptyline together?  And–probably most important–how long can he expect the drowsiness to last?  He’s already decided to quit the nortriptyline altogether and double the zoloft dose, but we’re both sort of wondering if that’s the right thing to do. — someone

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Question: *Why* is it a "good idea" to wean yourself off of a medication which is preventing migraines?

My opinion…. A medication takes upwards to 6 weeks at times to fully get into ones system….. stopping a medication quickly can shock ones system and might cause further medical complications… the medications dont know that we are taking them for migraines…… I take a blood pressure medication called Inderal… if I were to stop taking this completely cold turkey, it might shock my pressure and system and cause all sorts of difficulities…… make sense? Kristen Leigh

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Hi Debby, He only took nortriptyline for about 4 days, so we’re not really worried about side effects.  I’m concerned that maybe he didn’t give it long enough, but he’s a big boy, so I can’t really make him take it if he doesn’t want to. Question: *Why* is it a "good idea" to wean yourself off of a medication which is preventing migraines? — Ninerfan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and I agree would be a good idea.  Please be very careful—if you are considering changing medication don’t do it suddenly or without consulting your doctor–there can be VERY nasty side effects from sudden withdrawal. Debby

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Zoloft (a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a/k/a SSRI)often causes "jitters," and difficulty in getting to sleep or staying asleep. The sedating tricyclic/heterocyclic(TCAs or HCAs) antidepressants (ADs) cause drowsiness or deep sleep without addiction. (Some drugs in that class aren’t sedating.) Both are useful for migraine prophylaxis (px); ergo, each prescribed together, with extra potential to prevent migraines, increase your actual physical pain tolerance, increase the effectiveness of analgesics and each (with luck) canceling out some of the side effects of each other. This is awfully clever prescribing, actually, and I wish my docs had thought of it! Pamelor (nortriptyline) is a second-generation tricyclic, a direct derivative of Elavil or Tofranil (I forget which)–sort of a pre-digested Elavil/Tofranil. First-generation drugs go through a bunch o’ changes as they’re metabolized. The thinking was that for depression, if you could give patients something which was farther along in the process of conversion to a substance useful to the body, the AD would work faster. This might mean patients wouldn’t have to wait 4-6 weeks to see if the AD would work. Unfortunately, second- and third-generation ADs were no faster at lifting depressions. However, they had fewer serious side effects for many people while still maintaining the effectiveness of the older drugs for many people. Pamelor is generally prescribed before bedtime and Zoloft in the morning. Anxiety disorders generally don’t respond well to the TCAs or HCAs, but many of the SSRIs and the neither/or ADs (Desyrel/trazodone, for instance) are very useful in obsess.-comp. dis., gen’l anx. dis., etc. ABSOLUTELY do not d/c nortriptyline abruptly!!! This is very important. And NEVER double the dosage of a psych medicine on your own. Some cause heart arrythmias, some cause whacko neurological problems, wierd thoughts/behavior, etc. Call the doctor and state the complaint. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, My fiance has been put on Zoloft for anxiety.  He’s taking 25 mg daily, which is half of the proscribed dosage, but he feels it’s working well enough to stick with that dosage.  His neuro put him on nortriptyline last week for migraines and said "it tends to work well in conjunction with zoloft."  Problem is the drowsiness it’s causing is leaving him a zombie, and he feels the migraines are better than the drowsiness.  Furthermore, he looked in his drug reference book and, according to that, zoloft and nortriptyline do EXACTLY the same thing in terms of serotonin reuptake. So my questions are: Why would a neuro prescribe nortriptyline and zoloft at the same time?  Do they really do the same thing/is there any benefit to taking them both at the same time?  Is anyone out there taking zoloft and nortriptyline together?  And–probably most important–how long can he expect the drowsiness to last?  He’s already decided to quit the nortriptyline altogether and double the zoloft dose, but we’re both sort of wondering if that’s the right thing to do. — someone

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I am taking Elavil and Prozac together, and I had the same questions as to why take two antidepressants together.  I’m not sure what the reasoning is behind it, but it’s quite common for migraines.  I take the Elavil at night and it helps me sleep.  The first week or so I was a zombie, but it got better after about 10 days.  Tell him to hang in there, it gets better.

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snip<  i THINK that nortriptyline is amytriptyline (sp?) (elavil)? & is classified as a tricyclic, wheras zoloft is an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor).  

Nortriptyline is the generic name for Pamelar and amytriptyline is the generic name for Elavil.  They are similar but not the same.   I’m not sure if they are classified as tricyclics…I never did understand what tricyclics were anyway. if that’s the case, perhaps they work a little differently, albeit both on the serotonin. in any event, my experience with the drowsiness is that it passes after awhile.  it was the dry mouth (from elavil; i haven’t been on zoloft) that bummed me out.

I’ve been on nortriptyline for 5 years.  My dosage has ranged from 50 to 100 mgs.  I barely notice the side effects.  I keep trying to find a less stressful time so that I can start to wean myself which my doctor and I agree would be a good idea.  Please be very careful—if you are considering changing medication don’t do it suddenly or without consulting your doctor–there can be VERY nasty side effects from sudden withdrawal. Debby

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: , he : looked in his drug reference book and, according to that, zoloft and : nortriptyline do EXACTLY the same thing in terms of serotonin reuptake. :  i THINK that nortriptyline is amytriptyline (sp?) (elavil)? & is classified : as a tricyclic, wheras zoloft is an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake : inhibitor).   if that’s the case, perhaps they work a little differently, : albeit both on the serotonin. in any event, my experience with the : drowsiness is that it passes after awhile.  it was the dry mouth (from : elavil; i haven’t been on zoloft) that bummed me out. I believe nortriptyline is *related* to amitriptyline (none of this spelling looks right to me), not the same thing. Many of these antidepressants do *roughly* the same thing, but in slightly different ways.  This is why they may have different side effects and may work better in combination than alone. I’m switching off of Zoloft, and am trying Wellbutrin.  (Actually I’m on both now, as the Wellbutrin settles in, so I don’t get left with a period with no antidepressant — I have clinical depression.)  I may, however, end up taking two different antidepressants, taking one which has sleepiness side effects in the evening and Wellbutrin, which has energizing side effects, earlier in the day.  Lots of folks do it that way.  The sedative effect of the med taken in the evening helps one sleep. Years ago I was on amitryptaline to see if it would help my migraines, and I discovered that I could count on falling asleep almost exactly 30 minutes after I took my dose.  Which was great, because I often have trouble falling asleep. Priscilla

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, he looked in his drug reference book and, according to that, zoloft and nortriptyline do EXACTLY the same thing in terms of serotonin reuptake.

 i THINK that nortriptyline is amytriptyline (sp?) (elavil)? & is classified as a tricyclic, wheras zoloft is an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor).   if that’s the case, perhaps they work a little differently, albeit both on the serotonin. in any event, my experience with the drowsiness is that it passes after awhile.  it was the dry mouth (from elavil; i haven’t been on zoloft) that bummed me out.

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You miss the point.  Why stop at all, if that medication is preventing the migraines?  Isn’t this sort of telling the patient that the migraine is all in your head and you just have to deal with it?  As if you have agoraphobia or something that you just have to "get over"?  To put it another way, if you were taking insulin shots for diabetes, would your doctor attempt to "wean" you off of insulin?

No, I dont think it is the same thing and I dont think that the doctors are saying that it is all in our heads.. at least the good ones…… what I do think is that… as I posted earlier….. I was told that it is possible that the migraine is cyclic… meaning that they come in cycles and if that cycle is broken, it is possible to be without the medications for a while…. I am not a doctor, nor do I pretend to be one.. all I know is what I have been told and learned myself….. and that is that I see two possibilities for weaning off a medication… one the med isnt working and one is at a dosage that is too high just to stop cold turkey and switch….. as is the case I have with the inderal I am on… or two….. that the doctor wants to see if the patient is able to survive off the medications without getting the migraines back again…… if I had the possibility of breaking a cycle of migraines and living life with one or two a year and NOT being on medications….. well, it would be a dream come true….. I would think that it would be worth a shot at least to find out….. from a laymans point of view……unlike a diabetic….. blood sugar levels are able to be tested where as migraines (at least most from what I gather) cannot be found on any one test…. this leaves open a lot of room for opinion and differences  in treatments……. if a diabetic’s system were to improve then this person would need less and less insulin…. possibly even get to a point where they dont need it….. as has happened with juvinile diabetis… sooooooo  lets get hypothetical for a moment….. if there WERE a test for migraines.. and a patients system were to show that they are needing less and less of a medication… wouldnt it make sense for them to take the lesser dosage necessary?  so in that respect… since there ISNT a test to tell this…. one must try it and see…. as with us trying different medications and different courses of treatment.. each is different… each doctor is different.. each migraine is different… all one can do is experiment and try to get to the as I said, this is just my opinion and what I have been told….. Again, I am not a doctor and cannot speak for why individuals are weaned off meds or not, it is just a theory which in my laypersons opinion.. think is a valid one that if I were to get to the point that I  did not have a migraine in lets say  a year …. I would certaintly want to TRY and see if I were able to survive without all these drugs…. I hate taking them at all times and even now dream for the day to live life without them…… it is a constant fight going on within… why at 25 do I have to take all this junk…… what did I ever do… I might never have that answer…. who knows? Kristen Leigh

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You miss the point.  Why stop at all, if that medication is preventing the migraines?  Isn’t this sort of telling the patient that the migraine is all in your head and you just have to deal with it?  As if you have agoraphobia or something that you just have to "get over"?  To put it another way, if you were taking insulin shots for diabetes, would your doctor attempt to "wean" you off of insulin? — Ninerfan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: *Why* is it a "good idea" to wean yourself off of a medication which is preventing migraines? My opinion…. A medication takes upwards to 6 weeks at times to fully get into ones system….. stopping a medication quickly can shock ones system and might cause further medical complications… the medications dont know that we are taking them for migraines…… I take a blood pressure medication called Inderal… if I were to stop taking this completely cold turkey, it might shock my pressure and system and cause all sorts of difficulities…… make sense? Kristen Leigh

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: Question: *Why* is it a "good idea" to wean yourself off of a medication : which is preventing migraines? Because stopping *any* medication too suddenly can shock the body and produce unpleasant effects. Priscilla

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Hi Debby, snip< Question: *Why* is it a "good idea" to wean yourself off of a medication which is preventing migraines? — Ninerfan

Hi Ninerfan, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your question. I’ve been taking nortriptyline in varying dosages for about six years. In the meantime, I have also taken various other combinations of medicine to prevent my migraines and to treat my chronic daily headaches.  In addition to the nortriptyline, I also take Verapamil (calan){as a preventative} which is a calcium-channel blocker usually prescribed for high blood pressure.  When I began taking the Verapamil several years ago, my chronic daily headaches disappeared almost immediately.  Unless I am extremely stressed, my migraines (with aura) are pretty infrequent and they respond well to a combination of midrin and compazine or to DHE. I started taking nortriptyline when I was first being treated for rebound headaches from taking too much tylenol.  At that time I was having headaches every day and migraines, as often as 2 – 3 times a week.  Since my headaches seem to be much less of a problem, it seems like a good idea to try to eliminate one of the medicines I take every day.  I expect to take Verapamil or other blood pressure medicines for quite some time since I am also taking them because I have moderately elevated blood pressure.  We’re trying to determine if I still need to take the nortriptyline anymore. I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on this newsgroup but I hope that this explanantion is helpful. Debby

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Question:

I’ve had Tinnitus for about 2 years now even though I didn’t realize what it was until last week.  I haven’t yet been to a doctor, but will make an appointment soon, although after reading this NG, I’m not sure what good it will do. About two years ago I started taking Zoloft.  If I missed a dose or was late with a dose, I would get a loud buzzing in my head.  In addition to the constant loud buzzing, I would also get very strong ‘jolts’ in my head which also made me very dizzy – but only for the moment that I had the ‘jolts’.  Of course these jolts could happen several times a minute and would happen off and on for hours.  I tried to make sure that I didn’t miss any doses.  I mentioned this to my friend John who was also taking Zoloft and he told me he had the same problem.  We called them ‘brain farts’. I asked the shrink who was prescribing the Zoloft about this and he told me that it was all in my head ( isn’t that what I said ?? ;-} ). He said that Zoloft CAN’T cause that.  Well I knew he was wrong, so I got up on the net ** and read about some other people who experienced the same thing.  After taking Zoloft for about a year, I decided that I wanted off.  So I tapered down and went through really bad episodes of these brain farts.  I’ve been off Zoloft for about a year now and the brain farts are no more, but I still have the (sometimes) very loud buzzing in my head. I’d heard of T before, but didn’t think that’s what was happening to me because T is a ringing in the ears, not a buzzing inside the head which is what I have.  One night last week, as I was *trying* to sleep, it dawned on me again to check the net. **  First I looked up T and found that, I think it was 24% of people with T report that it’s a buzzing in the head not a ringing in one or both ears.  Bingo.  Then I looked up T AND Zoloft and found that T is one of the potential side effects of Zoloft occurring in a study in 1.6% of the people who take it.  Anything over 1% is considered significant.  Bingo #2. I don’t think I’ve had any hearing loss due to the T.  I’ve always had trouble hearing if there’s any background noise, and as my friend John put it, now I come with my own built in background noise! Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this? bill ps remove the first ‘x’ in the email address to send email ** don’t ya just love the net?

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xbtr…@concentric.net (Bill Truax) wrote:

Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this?

…………………………. Here’s what I would do. Join the American Tinnitus Association, and talk with other folks who have had tinnitus.  Find out what approaches have been successful for them.  When you find an approach and a facility which in your judgement are most compatible with your needs, I will absolutely assure you that it will not be part of the Kaiser plan.  So then speak with the office manager at the facility you have chosen, express your interest in paying cash for the service, and request information about the uniqueness (and success rate) of that particular program, which you then will present to the client services representative of your Kaiser plan to see if an appeal will result possibly in partial or complete remuneration to you! By your own analysis, your health care plan "sucks."  That does not necessarily mean that your health care must follow suit, but typically it will cost you!  Remember, Kaiser is cut rate coverage (again the colorful word "sucks" comes to mind), and in the end … in life you generally get what you pay for!  Hence, the national trend actually AWAY from HMO’s! Best of luck. nagler Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS Director Southeastern Comprehensive Tinnitus Clinic Atlanta, Georgia http://www.tinn.com (404) 531-3979

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Welcome, Bill. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home. Bruce Seattle

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Thanks for the info.  I’ll keep it in mind when I get around to seeing someone about this.  At this point, this has been going on for 2 years, and it hasn’t driven me nuts yet, although before I realized what it was, I thought I was going nuts a few times.  I never mentioned it to a single person until last week when I figured out what it was.  Just knowing what it is can be a big help. I’ll be sure to let you all know if anything happens with the doctors. Thanks again, bill btr…@concentric.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stephen Nagler wrote: xbtr…@concentric.net (Bill Truax) wrote:

Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this? …………………………. Here’s what I would do. Join the American Tinnitus Association, and talk with other folks who have had tinnitus.  Find out what approaches have been successful for them.  When you find an approach and a facility which in your judgement are most compatible with your needs, I will absolutely assure you that it will not be part of the Kaiser plan.  So then speak with the office manager at the facility you have chosen, express your interest in paying cash for the service, and request information about the uniqueness (and success rate) of that particular program, which you then will present to the client services representative of your Kaiser plan to see if an appeal will result possibly in partial or complete remuneration to you! By your own analysis, your health care plan "sucks."  That does not necessarily mean that your health care must follow suit, but typically it will cost you!  Remember, Kaiser is cut rate coverage (again the colorful word "sucks" comes to mind), and in the end … in life you generally get what you pay for!  Hence, the national trend actually AWAY from HMO’s! Best of luck. nagler Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS Director Southeastern Comprehensive Tinnitus Clinic Atlanta, Georgia http://www.tinn.com (404) 531-3979

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Thanks, it’s appreciated.  I may be the silent guest at the table for a while, since at this point I have more to learn than contribute, but I am here. bill btr…@concentric.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bruce F. Meyers wrote:

Welcome, Bill. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home. Bruce Seattle

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Question:

ok, i’m back on zoloft and waiting for the effects to kick in. the last time around, i think it actually precipitated something close to a panic attack. i’m not so sure i’m looking forward to the other side of the pendulum either. anyone else get this? Dawn. International student Second year Media Studies RMIT University, Australia (Melbourne) "Maybe I -will- become a writer, and maybe I won’t. I don’t know. I haven’t read the last page yet."      - Julia Salinger, Party of Five

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Dawn,    Several SSRIs cause a feeling of panic, jumpiness, and impending doom until they "kick" in. Paxil nearly wiped me out when I went on it. Luckily (?) I was in the hospital when I was put on Zoloft a few years ago. Anyhow, after about 3 weeks of feeling like shit, the drug kicked in and I did feel a bit better. My Best,  ~Robbi~  "oo" http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7160 for all of your bipolar needs. Serving bipolars since 1996!              The sex organ is a terrible thing to waste! P.S. The last remark on my sig line is dedicated to the sexual dysfunction that occurs in 25% of people taking antidepressants. The 25% figure is based on medical information which is suspect.

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What are the side effects of Zoloft?  Guess I should be prepared for them Kimber

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