Question:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Some power antennas can be repaired. Many have a slender toothed rod or strip inside. The motor catches the teeth in the strip and runs the antenna up and down. You may be able to build one good antenna from the two.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike

I just went through this with my girlfriends Buick.  Autozone listed a power antenna direct replacement for this one for about $50. NAPA had an adaptor which allows ordinary antennae to be installed and connected to the unusual power antenna connector.  I used the ordinary antenna. NAPA also had the mast repair kits to fix the old units.

Response:

There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

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Response:

Well, The dealer doesn’t stock the mast repair kits anymore, and all they have is a "universal" kit as well. $220!! What a pain. I’ll try NAPA tomorrow and see if they have anything. Most auto parts places around here just have the universal fits. Hopefully NAPA has a *repair* kit. Thanks for all the replies, Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.)

In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

These units are probably the same thru several years if you can find one from a wrecked 79-83 Caddie or any GM car for that matter that used the power unit. Roy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I’m a used auto dealer and these things are a real pain.  I have gone to the junk yard and removed a manual mast antenna from a GM car and installed it in place of the power one.  If you are careful you can get one that mounts up nearly exactly to the original and your problems are over.  Usually on late model Caddys I do replace the entire assembly though…just because it’s a Caddy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Hey thanks! They have a few in stock. All I gotta do is wait till payday and see how much shipping costs to Canada. The dealers around here can’t get them anymore. Daniel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I had similar problem in my ‘87 DeVille.  The fix is more of a PITA than I care for, so my solution was to extend the antenna and pull the fuse….. Watching the antenna go up/down was as impressive as it use to be anyway….LOL Cheap ‘fix’…. Dave S

Response:

Question:

I have never been diagnosed with depression.  I have panic disorder.  I am not happy with the side effects of the antidepressant, Effexor XR.  I am not happy about my energy level and lack of emotions.  Even though I’m not happy about these symptoms, I don’t feel depressed.  I feel like the med is not letting me be me.  It’s not an ego thing.  It’s just feel that I need more energy and emotions to get back into the midst of life. Tony

Why not skip the ADs and just take Xanax XR or Klonopin? The only problem is tapering off of Effexor but it can be done, obviously. Philip — The charter is available at:

Question:

Oh you poor soul.  No one should have the daily pain that you have.  Does your doctor ever tell you about anti- seizure drugs like Neurontin, etc.?  I was having daily headaches (always started at 5:00 p.m.).  I am also bipolar and when my psychiatrist prescribed Neurontin and ramped me up to 800 mg four times a day, the headaches mysteriously went away.  They started getting less painful until one day I noticed, they were just gone.  I do have the beginning of migraines about once a month, or when I get blasted by loud noise or bright flickering lights, but with the Neurontin, a Bellamine-S and Esgic Plus pretty much nip it in the bud. Neurontin carries very few side effects, maybe you will sleep a lot better, and the few it does have. your body gets used to. I told my doctor once, "We who have migraines–if you would offer us a million dollars or to never have another headache, we would take the never have another headache."  His face showed that he finally understood our plight. I sincerely hope you can find something that works for you.  BTW, the Neurontin is good for nerve pain other places, too.  You poor thing.  You don’t deserve this. Val in Boise

Response:

Chuck,     I am  in the same situation I have had nonstop pain in my head too I’m on my 9th year of this.I am 30, and when I had my 3rd{last} child afterward I just started having pain that was sheer h*!!. It just kept intensifying,.I am usually  pretty nauseas for a lot of the time. I am taking Phenerghan for it. I am so sensitive to many medications. Ones that don’t work,or makeme worse  etc. . I have pain through my whole body. I have Fibromyalgia, Where you hurt at the pressure points located throughout your body. I have Neuropathy as well which is like going around droppingthings, or mylegs just give out, when walking.  I alsohave Rheaumatoid  Arthritis I can tell whenwe are going toget bad weather. Because ofmy body hurting so bad.  You mightbeable to doa google search and type in  diferent words, ya know like Chronic Pain.. Here  is a link if you’re interested inchecking it out. Its not only for people suffering, but for the ones that see them and feel bad about it. Their’ friend or family member or anyone else. It is a wonderful support group. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chronicpainstories/   I hope that things start getting better for everyone!!!  Ican’t wait till we get warm weather again.  We are getting ready tobuild an edition on to our trailer. When we get done it will look just like an average house. Wegot some footers dug a little. I am notgoing to be able todo too much, because ofbeing disabled. I’m under drs.orders to not drive. That sucks. I get auras where everything gets pitch black or blinding excruciating bright white. Imostly wear  sunglasses. So depressed. But hey I’m dealing withit. Starting to stand up , take action. For ourrights,For  the DEA to quit sticking their noses where they don’t belong. It is all of ourdutyto speak up. They are trying totake pain medicine away from everyone suffering to the point of needing toget treated by drs. Take care Chuck, and everyone else reading this. A friend of mine has had an intense headache for the last 3 years – it varies in intensity, but on a scale from 1 – 10 he’s averaging a 7. It started suddenly and never stops. He often has attacks (3 or 4 a week) where the headache quickly get worse, and he passes out from the pain and is totally unresponsive. Before this happens, he usually complains that his arm hurts. He’s gone to tonnes of doctors – neurologists, dieticians, psychiatrists, accupuncture, tried diets to eliminate food groups and allergens, had MRI’s and cat scans and spinal taps. Tried all sorts of drugs –  morphine and other pain killers, anti-siezure, etc. Nothing has helped and no one has any idea what’s going on. He’s healthy otherwise and very rarely had headaches before this one. Anyone have any similar experiences, or helpful suggestions? Chuck A friend of mine has had an intense headache for the last 3 years – it varies in intensity, but on a scale from 1 – 10 he’s averaging a 7. It started suddenly and never stops. He often has attacks (3 or 4 a week) where the headache quickly get worse, and he passes out from the pain and is totally unresponsive. Before this happens, he usually complains that his arm hurts. He’s gone to tonnes of doctors – neurologists, dieticians, psychiatrists, accupuncture, tried diets to eliminate food groups and allergens, had MRI’s and cat scans and spinal taps. Tried all sorts of drugs –  morphine and other pain killers, anti-siezure, etc. Nothing has helped and no one has any idea what’s going on. He’s healthy otherwise and very rarely had headaches before this one. Anyone have any similar experiences, or helpful suggestions? Chuck A friend of mine has had an intense headache for the last 3 years – it varies in intensity, but on a scale from 1 – 10 he’s averaging a 7. It started suddenly and never stops. He often has attacks (3 or 4 a week) where the headache quickly get worse, and he passes out from the pain and is totally unresponsive. Before this happens, he usually complains that his arm hurts. He’s gone to tonnes of doctors – neurologists, dieticians, psychiatrists, accupuncture, tried diets to eliminate food groups and allergens, had MRI’s and cat scans and spinal taps. Tried all sorts of drugs –  morphine and other pain killers, anti-siezure, etc. Nothing has helped and no one has any idea what’s going on. He’s healthy otherwise and very rarely had headaches before this one. Anyone have any similar experiences, or helpful suggestions?

Response:

Neurontin carries very few side effects, maybe you will sleep a lot better, and the few it does have. your body gets used to.

Hi Val, I too have fibromyalgia and at one point my doc prescribed neurontin, it seems to be the drug of choice for prevention and control of fms symptoms. However, recently there were 2 class action lawsuit against the manufacturers of Neurontin.  It seems that one of the side effects of this drug is suicidal (or homicidal depending on your state of mind I guess) tendencies.  since one of the problems of fms is major clinical depression it is something that shouldn’t be taken lightly.  I’d talk to your doc about weighing the benefits. The second lawsuit has to do with the fact that 80% of the neurontin prescriptions were for conditions that the drug was not approved for.  I’m including a statement here about that.  You can also do a search for neurontin lawsuit and read a little more about it. Hate to be the bearer of bad news Good Luck, Karen Neurontin lawsuit Neurontin – Neurontin was approved for sale in the mid-1990s as a treatment for epileptic seizures. However it is believed that approximately 80 percent of all Neurontin prescriptions were filled for unapproved medical conditions. Neurontin is also believed to be linked to suicidal behavior. It is believed that Parke-Davis which was acquired by Pfizer in 2000 had a systematic strategy to market and promote Neurontin for untested uses, such as chronic pain, bipolar disorder and migraine. It is not illegal for a doctor to prescribe a drug for unapproved conditions, however it is illegal for a drug company to market a medication for unapproved uses. In July 2003, Dateline broadcasted an investigation which accused Parke-Davis of deliberately falsifying medical information about Neurontin so doctors would prescribe the drug to treat "off-label" conditions. State and Federal prosecutors have launched investigations into the allegedly illegal marketing of Neurontin. In its year-long investigation, Dateline interviewed a former Parke-Davis scientist who alleges company officials encouraged him to persuade physicians to prescribe Neurontin for a number of disorders, including attention deficit disorder and bipolar disease, even though there was minimal preliminary data indicating that Neurontin could help patients with those diseases. In May 2003, The US attorney’s office in Boston said in court documents that the drug company Parke-Davis, now Pfizer, gave illegal kickbacks to doctors, including trips to Puerto Rico and tickets to the 1996 Summer Olympics, to prescribe what has become the nation’s best-selling anticonvulsant, Neurontin. Below is a list of the unapproved conditions that Neurontin was marketed to treat: The 11 illegally promoted unapproved uses for Neurontin are: *Bipolar Disorder *Pain Syndromes, Peripheral Neuropathy, and Diabetic Neuropathy *Treatment of Epilepsy alone (as monotherapy) *Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD) *Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) *Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) *Trigeminal Neuralgia *Post-Hepatic Neuralgia (PHN) *Essential Tremor Periodic Limb Movement *Migraine *Drug and Alcohol Withdrawal Seizures

Response:

UnfortunatelyVal,   I   am  already on it. I take 1800 mgs. aday,, No help from it.  Thanks though. I’m gladto hearthat they help you  some. Take Care, migraine momma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oh you poor soul.  No one should have the daily pain that you have.  Does your doctor ever tell you about anti- seizure drugs like Neurontin, etc.?  I was having daily headaches (always started at 5:00 p.m.).  I am also bipolar and when my psychiatrist prescribed Neurontin and ramped me up to 800 mg four times a day, the headaches mysteriously went away.  They started getting less painful until one day I noticed, they were just gone.  I do have the beginning of migraines about once a month, or when I get blasted by loud noise or bright flickering lights, but with the Neurontin, a Bellamine-S and Esgic Plus pretty much nip it in the bud. Neurontin carries very few side effects, maybe you will sleep a lot better, and the few it does have. your body gets used to. I told my doctor once, "We who have migraines–if you would offer us a million dollars or to never have another headache, we would take the never have another headache."  His face showed that he finally understood our plight. I sincerely hope you can find something that works for you.  BTW, the Neurontin is good for nerve pain other places, too.  You poor thing.  You don’t deserve this. Val in Boise

Response:

Question:

No recomendation yet, meeting with Doc next week… — Dan ICQ 108553906

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,          I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.         Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906 serzone does indeed have less sexual interference then the ssri’s-switching is best done by a slow taper off the paxil and once on around 5 mg a day for a week just switching over to a small dose of serzone-initially you may feel fatigued and spacey for a few days to a few weeks if you go too fast upward in the titration-what has your doc recomended? LM

Response:

Folks,           I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.          Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,          I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.         Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

serzone does indeed have less sexual interference then the ssri’s-switching is best done by a slow taper off the paxil and once on around 5 mg a day for a week just switching over to a small dose of serzone-initially you may feel fatigued and spacey for a few days to a few weeks if you go too fast upward in the titration-what has your doc recomended? LM

Response:

Danny, I didn’t go from Paxil to Serzone but did go Zoloft-Wellbutrin-Serzone, which I now have been on for about five months.  With the Wellbutrin I ramped off, and then began the "starter pack" of Serzone.  But even the lowest dosage I found intolerable at first – it upset my stomach and made me feel like I had drank ten cups of coffee.  I had to break the beginning pills in half to make it comfortable and move up from there.  Once you’re on it it’s fine, but it’s bumpy getting there. As far as libido or sexual side effects there were none . . . . at first. However (and this could just be me, obviously) at about the four month mark I did start to have problems, similar to what the Zoloft was doing.  It disperses my concentration to the point where it’s very difficult to "finish" in bed.  I don’t know why it took this long to kick in, but it did. I’m currently at 150mg twice a day, and at one point my doc tried to increase it to 400 total.  That DIDN’T work, made me feel like a zombie and totally screwed with my physical coordination, so I went back to 300.  But I’m seriously thinking of ramping off it entirely, not just because of the sexual problem but other side effects as well.  I’ll call my doc and talk about it. Good luck to you, however, and don’t take my experience as a negative for trying Serzone.  I’ve noticed on the other meds many times I have an unusual reaction which just proves we all react differently to some degree. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,           I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.          Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

Response:

Question:

Best of luck with the new Message board, but I won’t be participating there because I don’t like the idea of moderated groups/boards. I have lived with an ileostomy long enough not to be bothered by idiots who don’t know what they are talking about or by trolls tossing a ‘bomb’ into a discussion group. I can understand that some people are more sensitive to these things, but IMHO it is better to say to yourself "What a JERK  that person is", delete the message and give it the attention it deserves which is ….. none.  I can’t understand why someone would want to cause negative feelings in people, but I admit that some mentally challanged people do want to do that. If you respond to them in any way they get some kind of sick kick. I don’t want to give them that pleasure. Rob PS If you have to reply to a jerk (sometimes it helps to vent your anger) you can do it with an email to them and save the rest of your newsgroup from having to see the subject line over and over. Just a suggestion. Everyone is entitled to do what they need to do to let off the steam an idiot’s message can cause. PPS Regarding SPAM in newsgroups. If everyone reports spammers to their hosting ISPs (you can use spamcop if you want to do this simply) the levels of spam will stay low.   "libbydoo" <libby…@carolina.rr.com

writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I understand what you mean and it may be a great idea for most. I’ll check it out but I think I kinda like deciding who to toss in the kill file for myself.  Sounds so much like censorship… No offense intended at all; I do understand your view.  I guess I just don’t get upset very easily after all these years.  :) Libby "L.A.T." <ltr…@yahoo.com wrote in message news:8r0hpc$t6e$1@nnrp1.deja.com… Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these people an option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we discourage insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right, this message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone tries to demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply be deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message board minus off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt meaningful dialog amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy Forum -:- at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative interruptions for the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net

if man is 5 then the devil is 6, if the devil is 6 then god is 7, this monkeys gone to heaven,  this monkeys gone to heaven…

Response:

Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these people an option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we discourage insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right, this message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone tries to demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply be deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message board minus off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt meaningful dialog amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy Forum -:- at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative interruptions for the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

I understand what you mean and it may be a great idea for most. I’ll check it out but I think I kinda like deciding who to toss in the kill file for myself.  Sounds so much like censorship… No offense intended at all; I do understand your view.  I guess I just don’t get upset very easily after all these years.  :) Libby "L.A.T." <ltr…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:8r0hpc$t6e$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these

people an

option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we

discourage

insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right,

this

message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone

tries to

demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply

be

deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message

board minus

off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt

meaningful dialog

amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy

Forum -:-

at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative

interruptions for

the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I’ve noticed, and maybe it is bogus until next years allergy season comes around, but since I switched to water and not much else in May, I’ve had virtually no problem with allergies, not even when I flew to Houston in July. My breathing is WAY better than it used to be. Now, I don’t always have a lot of allergies in summer, but slightly stuffed up is not unusual for me. But I’ve not been all summer, except for one head cold. So I can see that yes, it might help asthmatics. Anyway, if anyone is an allergy sufferer, it may be worth a try. I should know more next spring… Cynthia G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For info, read http://dietchef.ecorp.net/articles/health/water.htm <snip I also just read that adequate hydration during exercise makes you able to breath much more efficiently.  In fact,  asthmatics who drank water while exercising cut way back on rescue inhaler use. If you are trying to lose weight, you should drink 64 ounces and then 8 ounces for each 25 pounds over weight you are. Once I actually made myself drink it, I find I crave it now. — claudia 565/355/157 To email me remove the potatoes Tipletter Writer for Dieting CyberTip4theDay Subscribe today:  http://www.CyberTip4theDay.com For hundreds of free low-fat recipes and info visit Claudia’s Corner http://dietchef.ecorp.net Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

Many in this newsgroup are more knowledgeable as to why we need to drink more… and I’ve often heard it said you should drink 64oz minimum PLUS an extra 8oz for every 25lbs you wish to lose.  Someone else suggested that you half your weight and drink that many oz’s daily…. Drink up.. You’ll be glad you did.

here is the link: http://www.classicx.com/html/2super.html   THE WATER QUESTION i not more knowledgeable than others, just great at grabbing links! rosie

Response:

I go through 2-2 litre pitchers a day.  I think most people here drink more than that, but I remember a time when I thought drinking a 32 oz tumbler of water was a huge acomplishment! I found, the colder the water, the better. Lisa B. 243/223/160 "There is more to life than increasing its speed" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

For info, read http://dietchef.ecorp.net/articles/health/water.htm An average sized person who is a total couch potato and not trying to lose weight should drink a minimum of 64 ounces a day.  If you are more active and/or trying to lose weight you need to drink a lot more.  When you don’t drink a lot of water, you lose weight much more slowly.  Weight loss occurs as your liver breaks down fat deposits and flushes them out of your body. But when you don’t drink enough water, your kidneys can not do their job and there fore your liver stops or slows metabolizing fat and helps the kidneys do their job.  No matter what, your body will always by default make sure that you remain a live as long as possible.  What your kidneys do is essential to survival, so by default the liver will take over some of it’s work. I also just read that adequate hydration during exercise makes you able to breath much more efficiently.  In fact,  asthmatics who drank water while exercising cut way back on rescue inhaler use. If you are trying to lose weight, you should drink 64 ounces and then 8 ounces for each 25 pounds over weight you are. Once I actually made myself drink it, I find I crave it now. — claudia 565/355/157 To email me remove the potatoes Tipletter Writer for Dieting CyberTip4theDay Subscribe today:  http://www.CyberTip4theDay.com For hundreds of free low-fat recipes and info visit Claudia’s Corner http://dietchef.ecorp.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

I like drinking water.  I also have a weakness for soda.  I drink about 6-8+ glasses of water today.  I tell ya.  I have known 4 people who have had kidney troubles this year.  I’m not certain what caused it in each of the women, but I know I’m gonna drink my water! Denise http://www.chistell.com

Response:

I drink 100 oz./day…this is fairly new for me (only a week) but it is getting easier. Good Luck, Renee

Response:

Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

brenda, although i follow the recomendation you mentioned below, my water intake is roughly 1/2 of my weight, ounce wise…..just a strange coinkydink with me Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Allen… I was one of those who rarely ever drank water, but I decided it was one of the things I was going to give an honest try this time around.  I started out with what’s considered minimum water intake for everyone..8 x 8oz glasses per day or 64ozs.  Within days, I had doubled it to 128ozs and it’s been the easiest change I could have ever made in my WOE.  It helps to curb my hunger; it makes my entire body function better…and I feel much better.  I now consider it one of the most important elements of my WOL. Many in this newsgroup are more knowledgeable as to why we need to drink more… and I’ve often heard it said you should drink 64oz minimum PLUS an extra 8oz for every 25lbs you wish to lose.  Someone else suggested that you half your weight and drink that many oz’s daily…. Drink up.. You’ll be glad you did. Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

Hi Allen… I was one of those who rarely ever drank water, but I decided it was one of the things I was going to give an honest try this time around.  I started out with what’s considered minimum water intake for everyone..8 x 8oz glasses per day or 64ozs.  Within days, I had doubled it to 128ozs and it’s been the easiest change I could have ever made in my WOE.  It helps to curb my hunger; it makes my entire body function better…and I feel much better.  I now consider it one of the most important elements of my WOL. Many in this newsgroup are more knowledgeable as to why we need to drink more… and I’ve often heard it said you should drink 64oz minimum PLUS an extra 8oz for every 25lbs you wish to lose.  Someone else suggested that you half your weight and drink that many oz’s daily…. Drink up.. You’ll be glad you did.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

I like a good night’s sleep, so I usually don’t drink much water after about 9 PM unless I go for a walk later than that.  I go to bed pretty late (midnightish) so that’s usually plenty of time so that I avoid having to pee all night. Katie 183/168/163 Y4K:  568  /4000 — To reply by e-mail, take out all the x’s.

I drink a ton of water everyday on everyone’s advice.  But I try not to drink too much too late after one night a few nights ago waking up 3 times having to pee something terrible!  LOL! Desert Wind 296/291/125 Please visit my website

Response:

i know about those late nite potty visits. my biggest problem is getting my eyes to open up enough so i don’t trip over the dogs!! lol-janzbug

Response:

Hi Desert Wind, The nights when I have to get up and pee during the night is one I cherish. That usually is followed by a woosh the next morning Michael I drink a ton of water everyday on everyone’s advice.  But I try not to drink too much too late after one night a few nights ago waking up 3 times having to pee something terrible!  LOL! Desert Wind 296/291/125                      Please visit my website

– 214/197.5/190 Lowfat/Lowcal since Aug 26

Response:

I drink a ton of water everyday on everyone’s advice.  But I try not to drink too much too late after one night a few nights ago waking up 3 times having to pee something terrible!  LOL! Desert Wind 296/291/125

Please visitmy website

Response:

Water!!!! I drink it when I read ASD, every time I see the word "water, drink, drank, or drunk."  (It’s the ASD Drinking Game. Other than that, I drink *at least* 64 oz. per day, plus extra glasses in little "water rituals" such as the ASD Drinking Game, whenever I’m waiting for food to cook in the microwave, or whenever I’m in class or studying. Claudia’s right about asthma too – I’ve had fewer problems breathing since I’ve been fully hydrated (which in turn cuts down on my essential tremor because I’m not taking my inhaler as much). Basically, water is just *the* thing.   Ambrosia.  The Elixer of Life. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 Y2K 60/2000

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

…..and a catheter! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

Yep, I do think there is a relationship. I’ve been bad about drinking for two days now and I’ve noticed I am stuffier. Gotta go fill that water glass! Cynthia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cynthia, I noticed the same thing.  All the more reason to drink that water. I’ve noticed, and maybe it is bogus until next years allergy season comes around, but since I switched to water and not much else in May, I’ve had virtually no problem with allergies, not even when I flew to Houston in July. My breathing is WAY better than it used to be.

Response:

Cynthia, I noticed the same thing.  All the more reason to drink that water.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed, and maybe it is bogus until next years allergy season comes around, but since I switched to water and not much else in May, I’ve had virtually no problem with allergies, not even when I flew to Houston in July. My breathing is WAY better than it used to be. Now, I don’t always have a lot of allergies in summer, but slightly stuffed up is not unusual for me. But I’ve not been all summer, except for one head cold. So I can see that yes, it might help asthmatics. Anyway, if anyone is an allergy sufferer, it may be worth a try. I should know more next spring… Cynthia G For info, read http://dietchef.ecorp.net/articles/health/water.htm <snip I also just read that adequate hydration during exercise makes you able to breath much more efficiently.  In fact,  asthmatics who drank water while exercising cut way back on rescue inhaler use. If you are trying to lose weight, you should drink 64 ounces and then 8 ounces for each 25 pounds over weight you are. Once I actually made myself drink it, I find I crave it now. — claudia 565/355/157 To email me remove the potatoes Tipletter Writer for Dieting CyberTip4theDay Subscribe today:  http://www.CyberTip4theDay.com For hundreds of free low-fat recipes and info visit Claudia’s Corner http://dietchef.ecorp.net Hi: How much water do you all drink?  I have been trying to do about 50-60 oz. Is that enough? Perhaps we can setup intravenous water HAHAHAHHA thanks allen

Response:

Question:

Brenda, I have never taken Zoloft, but I am on Paxil and when I began taking it I too had increased anxiety for a few weeks.  I did not want to take my Xanax 3 times a day like the doc said.  I finally gave up and began taking it twice a day. Yes I was sleepy but not so anxious now I am on my eight week and take 10mg Paxil and Xanax only if I really need it like going on a long trip or anything out of the ordinary.  My Xanax prescription is .5 mg.  I began Paxil at 5mg, stayed there for a week and then took about 7mg (I had to break the tablets) for another two weeks and then the 10mg.  Your Zoloft dosage may be too high for the beginning.   25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Mine was better by day 8…However, I just upped my dose and am worse than ever…So it comes back each time you up the dose while your body gets used to it apparently…And don’t worry about taking the Xanax for this…I’ve noticed the worst of the side-effects lasted about 8 hours after taking it… .5 mg every 4 hours will kill most of this, and then you can take less or none later…And believe me 1-2 mg of Xanax is a small dose…The studies on dependency often say it takes either a large dose (4 mg + daily) or a long period of time (many months) to get a dependency…Even then it just means you have to ween off the stuff slowly…Hope this helps…Also, I am right there with you having upped my dose recently… Take Care, — Charles Phipps

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Brenda –   If the anxiety is high enough, .25 mg Xanax WILL NOT work…This is why I take .25 mg every 4-6 hours…Once the anxiety kicks in you have to take more often to get rid of it…Try another .25 if the first doesn’t work…This is also why I have to take so much xanax in the morning…The combo of morning obsessions (the day’s going to suck), having taken the Zoloft, and not having taken Xanax in 8 hours leads to a terrible time…Anyway, hang in there… — Charles Phipps

Response:

Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that???

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

My pdoc uses a "one month" rule. If side effects are still bad after a month, then it’s time to try something new. If nothing has really happened, even if the depression hasn’t really lifted, he say’s to stick it out until 2 months. Don’t worry about the Xanax right now…but..you made need something longer acting to help with your anxiety. You may want to make an emergency appointment with your doc about using Klonipin, which lasts fairly long in the body, and after a month, you can decide if you wish to stay on them. Believe me though..I took Xanax and Zoloft…and I had MAJOR rebounds when the Xanax wore off. If you really feel you can’t function, then maybe you should try another med. BUT, I ask you, you may want to try the Klonipin route first. Best of luck…and keep posting. We are here to support you.. James MacLachlan

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Hi Brenda, You’re taking a *very* low dose of Xanax. On the other hand you’re on a nice low starting dose of Zoloft. In my unprofessional opinion it might be worth trying .5 mgs of Xanax (0.125 is too little), that is two tabs of .25 mg and see how that works before ending Zoloft maybe prematurely. If that doesn’t work either (and you should know within one day, so you won’t have the time to develop Xanax-dependence) I’d say Zoloft isn’t the med for you in which case the best thing to do often is to try another SSRI (Luvox has the lowest side effect profile rep) or maybe move on to a TCA. Philip

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Heart racing is not a benzo side effect, it is anxiety talking here. It’s harmless (but can feel quite alarming, doesn’t it?). Xanax will make you drowsy in the beginning, it’s a side effect which will disappear. Philip

Response:

Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that???

Yesssss, I don’t think it’s your lungs BTW but rather your chest (and possibly back) muscles. No reason to raise the Zoloft quicker than you feel you can. Of course 12,5 mg is not a therapeutic dose (although nothing surprises me anymore about this disorder and sometimes seemingly sub-therapeutic doses do actually help) but your doctor shouldn’t be in such a hurry, take your time! Philip

Response:

Philip Peters wrote to: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that??? Yesssss, I don’t think it’s your lungs BTW but rather your chest (and possibly back) muscles. No reason to raise the Zoloft quicker than you feel you can. Of course 12,5 mg is not a therapeutic dose (although nothing surprises me anymore about this disorder and sometimes seemingly sub-therapeutic doses do actually help) but your doctor shouldn’t be in such a hurry, take your time!

I just want to reinforce what Philip says here. The whole idea is to *work up to* a therapeutic dose. Not to scare you away from it. Please don’t let your pdoc bully you on this one. Doctor and patient must work *together* for optimal results. Be easy, Kathryn

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Response:

Question:

First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day.   Nik "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

Response:

Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea.

Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it? — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

Response:

Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it?

Yes, it’s an SNRI. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common? The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh Bluebird

Response:

 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

 Sexual desire *  * I like this one.

Does this mean your cute little pet is in danger? Stuck

Response:

RGB, Wait for the delayed orgasms. I was a 45 year old woman having "wet dreams" like a 13 year old boy. This happened BOTH times I came off (and I do mean "came") off Effexor. LynnCGiff Somedays you’re the pigeon, somedays you’re the statue. Lynn from North Dakota

Response:

First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

Got off Effexor (which did nothing for me) awhile back.  My shrink did NOT prepare me for the withdrawal effects.  I had horrendous panic attacks and insomnia.  Frantic calls to the Doc. got me something (?) that calmed me down as I made the transition to Prozac.  (which also doesn’t do much for me.)  I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

Response:

What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience. They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.

Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

Response:

  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! Sounds to me like a sudden burst of dizziness, and God knows I’ve had those.

For me, there’s an element of dizziness, but it’s more like a jolt of electricity that starts at the back of my head and zaps down my neck to my fingers and toes.  I hate them – but I like Effexor, so I’ve got to live with them.  The worst ones are the dizzying ones that make me feel as if I’m going to pass out.  I had one of those at the mall, and I had to hide it from my kids. Bluebird

Response:

  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine

It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that "elevator thing" but confined to my head. Lynn

Response:

Oooh, yes, I get that when I miss my zoloft for even a day. I went to visit a friend a few weeks ago and i brought the wrong medicine bottle (I keep aspririn in the used ones), so I missed it for 3 days and on the walk home, my legs kept jerking with the brain shocks, made it very hard to walk. e

: When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. : It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to : catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few : seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that : "elevator thing" but confined to my head. : Lynn — 101011110100010101010000101110100101010101010010100010011111101010100100001 0100         This .signature sold by weight, not by volume.       Some settling of contents may occur during shipping.

Response:

Yuck. I missed just *2 days of 75mgs a day*, and I thought I was going to die from the withdrawl symptoms. It wouldn’t have been as bad if I hadn’t have had to go to class that day. First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago. I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day. Nik

–Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

Response:

 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff!

hi .. first of all im battling this withdrawal thing too..i’ve gone to the end of a prescription and not refill and miss a day and it’s as if my systems shut down after that…… this BRAIN SHIVER that many refer to is a buzzing numbing sensation in the back and top of my skull….. i have definitely related the fact that excessive eye movement or quick attempts to focus cause it to FIRE… i can only imagine how REM sleep affects you… you can only regulate your eye movement so much though.. it is indeed a sickening feeling.. i am down to 50mg per day once a day… i only take the medicine the first BRAIN SHIVER of the day.. so as to hold off as long as possible til next dosage.. i am gonna wait til i can half my way to nothing.. im sick of this drug it makes me feel like a computer with corrupt RAM.. anyway.. i have also been supplimenting my diet with GINSENG, GOTU KOLA (for memory), and ST. JOHN’S WORT.. as long as im trying to get off the drug that supposedly makes me feel better, i might as well take something natural to increase those reuptake zones.  i haven’t noticed any true physical withdrawal .. only the brain feeling and the fact that that causes you to feel like shit everywhere else.. so everything is mental haywire.  the only other time in life when i’ve felt this brain shiver thing was when i was EXTREMEMLY pissed off and irate… the kind of mad you only get every blue moon.. and that buzzing sensation occurs… i remember it.  good luck everyone with your struggle. eliot

Response:

What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!?

A sensation that seems to localized in your brain and can feel like a anything from a shiver to a lightning storm. It can hurt. Similar sensations can occur in other parts of the nervous system. I think the physicians and scientists are baffled. or they think we’re nuts. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

Response:

What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

You know that feeling when you shiver that it starts in one place and goes up (or down) the rest of your body?  Well it’s kind of like that but through your head.  At least that was my experience. I completely was unprepared for the withdrawal effects of Effexor and told my doc that he should be sure to let people know what to expect before taking them off.  I would never go thru that again!! "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

Response:

What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience.   They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.   — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Yes, it’s an SNRI.

Norepinephrine then, I had trouble with too much of that maybe. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common?

No, just extremely disturbing. Effexor is actually one of the drugs with low incidence of side effects – few people getting them. I only personally know three people who’ve taken it. The other two had no problem at all, stuff worked fine, one even quit cold-turkey. I went through hell. The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh

Oh well. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

Response:

Question:

I sure do know about those meetings with the stone faced and tight lipped teachers and the tables like aircraft carriers!!!

George and Cathi- I know about these too.  I get anxious every time I walk into my son’s school (which is every day to pick him up) when the teachers accost me.  It is always them against me.  And I say to myself, if this is how I feel, imagine how my child must feel!     Judy

Response:

Why is it that the educators are so slow when it comes to Tourette’s and ADD. Why can’t they understand it? One produces books, papers, professional educational advocates and testers, neurologists and psychopharmacologists to explain it to them , and they still don’t get it. Why is there no accountbility in our educational system? Does the American Civil Disabities act address discrimination against the handicapped in our public school ?                                               Dr. George

Response:

I have a unique perspective of this being both a teacher and a mother of a child with TS.  In college, a BA and a MA degree, I never learned one bit about TS or ADD.  Everything I know I learned on my own as I had to deal with students with ADD and now my TS son.  As educators, we walk a very find line.  The law says we have to educate everyone.  The problem is these children can be very disruptive in a classroom.  Then the parents of the other children complain.  It is very difficult to keep all of the parents happy.  In a large school, children who do not succeed in one classroom can always change to another.  In the school where I teach, there is only one class of 5th grade.  There also are no private schools. Again, if you have problems contact the Office of Civil Rights.  They are the branch that investivates and doles out punishment for schools that violate children’s civil rights.  All of these services are FREE.  Contact them through a hotline for the handicapped or your state education department.  

Response:

"They" don’t get it….unless "they" have to…or, perchance, "they" are among the more compassionate, devoted, and tireless (of which there ARE many). Good rule of thumb..don’t assume that all "professionals" are humanists. Take charge of your own destiny..and make certain that "they" have what "they" need to treat you, and your children, correctly. If they don’t, see that they do. One way or another. KAT in CT In <4frn9a$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com

drgeor1…@aol.com (DrGeor107a)

writes:

Why is it that the educators are so slow when it comes to Tourette’s

and

ADD. Why can’t they understand it? One produces books, papers, professional educational advocates and testers, neurologists and

psychopharmacologists – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

to explain it to them , and they still don’t get it. Why is there no accountbility in our educational system? Does the American Civil Disabities act address discrimination against the handicapped in our public school ?                                              Dr. George

Response:

darc…@aol.com (DarcieG) wrote:

The problem is these children can be very disruptive   in a classroom.  Then the parents of the other children   complain.  It is very difficult to keep all of the parents   happy.

Yup. Consider the mother of two sons, one tourettic, the other "normal". Her normal boy is in a classroom with a   severly disabled student who needs constant attention; her tourettic boy is disrupting his own class. She’s experiencing it from both perspectives. It is hard to find the philosophical middle ground. I was a difficult, disruptive student, back in the bad old pre-LD, pre-TS days of the 50’s and 60’s.   My sisters and my father (all educators) glare at me when I say this, but I have long favored the so-called voucher plan where the government gives the parent of each child a voucher valid for education. It’s up to the parent to match the school to the child.   With a diagnosis of TS and what we know now, I would have done   well in a small private school, considerably better than I did in huge public schools. In the larger cities at least, there is the critical mass of special students necessary to support such schools; the public system, however, is inescapably (and often necessarily) mired in a slow moving, slowly reacting, and   frequently unresponsive bureaucracy. Nobody, including the parents of "normal" children seems happy with the US public school system. (But consider our non-US readers, from South Africa, Canada, Ireland or Israel, dealing   with radically different systems of public education; we   actually have it pretty good in the US).   — Mark Odegard         mlom…@nyc.pipeline.com

Response:

It is not fair to generalize about educators . I have found that they are very willing to learn about Tourett’s and will try to make adaptations in their programs. Of course, not all educators are "open" but neither are they all "closed". Educators are facing many more challenges in the classroom right now. Public support is most important. I provide a package of materials for teachers and other people working with my daughter. I also make myself available to the teachers. I also speak to groups of teachers in inservice situation.                                      Regards, Ramona Jennex Williams

Response:

In article <4fqhv3$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com, heyjud…@aol.com (HeyJude49) writes: (written by someone else) I sure do know about those meetings with the stone faced and tight lipped teachers and the tables like aircraft carriers!!! What a great analogy!  I have a follow up meeting tomorrow with Jason’s teachers.  I wonder if I should prepare an opening joke <G. Bonnie Grimaldi   in Columbus, Ohio

WhatEVER you do, don’t wear that T-shirt with the big red sun on it….in light of an earlier post I saw here today, it could be somewhat counterproductive!! (sorry, ya’ll…..I’m losing it this A.M.) KAT in CT

Response:

kat, whata great idea. Mike can wear his "we tic together" shirt, I’ll wear the tourette athletic dept shirt and Neal can wear a TS shirt to our IEP review and transition meeting on Wednesday.  I stopped by our dept.of rehab. services to ask about more info for transitioning kids and getting him in the VECTOR program. Turns out the gal who works with hios high school had been complaining that she notifies the high school several times a year that she is available for transition meeting and they have NEVER called her. Well, I left a note inviting her to his meeting. If she comes, as well as the PACER advocate, we will have some good moral support for Neal. he is nervous about the meeting as the last one, he was seated in back of all the adults at the table and it was a major bashing session on how he needs to do better, if they write an IEP and make all these accomidations for him, they expect him to do better (might help if they followed the IEP). They were also on him about regardless of his "handicapping conditions" (I hate that phrase as much as on task and focused) he cannot miss school. I am hoping for a good positive meeting this time with advocates there to keep the school on the straight and narrow and as a backup for us (we make excuses, are overprotective, don’t push him enough,etc. -and besides that, I know too much!)  Pat

Response:

In <312879F3.4…@metvax.metro.msus.edu

Pat Rummenie

<rumme…@metvax.metro.msus.edu

writes:

 we will have some good moral

support for Neal. he is nervous about the meeting as the last one, he

was

seated in back of all the adults at the table and it was a major

bashing

session on how he needs to do better, if they write an IEP and make

all

these accomidations for him, they expect him to do better (might help

if

they followed the IEP). They were also on him about regardless of his "handicapping conditions"

Ethologists have known for some time now that one of the things that causes "higher animals" such terrific grief and stress is the feeling of loss of control. Picture this: a kid, about half the size and age of the roomful of "grownups" sitting in the back of the room, facing a desk that looks like "an aircraft carrier" (great metaphor, by the way!), waiting to hear what those "grownups" are going to decide to do with his life for the next few years..or longer. If he speaks up, he’s being "out of control, impertinent, willful" etc. If he doesn’t, he’s at risk of finding all his decisions made for him..whether he likes them or not. Either way, he loses. Talk about "loss of control." Is it any wonder then, that our kids go off the wall when they get home, out of school, and out of the straightjacket imposed by society’s "rules of order?" I think not. To me, it seems all perfectly logical. To wit: how many of "our" kids do MUCH better in the summer time…when time and circumstances allow them to be in more control of their own, immediate destinies? Food for thought…at the very least. KAT in CT

Response:

I am hoping for a good positive meeting this time with advocates there to keep the school on the straight and narrow and as a backup for us (we make excuses, are overprotective, don’t push him enough,etc. -and besides that, I know too much!)  Pat

Good luck at your meeting.  Know that there is a group of people out here rooting for you.    Judy

Response:

    Gosh, Pat, does Neal have to be in the room when all of the decisions are made?  That’s enough to make any adult nervous, let alone one of our TS kids.  Does Neal have to put his hand over his heart and promise to …………..? I consider this cruel and usual punishment.  No wonder he is nervous.  I’m nervous for him. I would think this is very counter productive.     I agree with KAT’s wonderful objectivity.  She is always right on.       Good luck.  Let us know what happens.                           Karen in Ohio  

Response:

One approach that should alleviate a lot of school adjustment problems,  is the evolution of more and more long-distance learning technology.   I am right now working on a possible book proposal to write a book to help teachers understand how to use HTML FORMS and CGI scripts,   to develop their course outlines and lesson plans.   Any of the home schooling or long-distance learning technologies might be the answer for lots of these children who just don’t fit the classroom attendance model. I know that this is not much of an answer for right now,  but there is always another approach,  on the horizon.

Response:

In article <312879F3.4…@metvax.metro.msus.edu

, Pat Rummenie

<rumme…@metvax.metro.msus.edu

writes: "handicapping conditions" (I hate that phrase as much as on task and focused) … (we make excuses, are overprotective, don’t push him enough,etc. -and besides that, I know too much!)  Pat

I could have written those words myself, Pat. Sure you haven’t been coming to our meetings??? I wish you a positive meeting (although the school may be on the defensive with advocates present, but hopefully they will also be careful!). I’ve been to enough meetings to last several lifetimes, so you’ve got a sympathetic mom here! So hope it’s a good one, and don’t forget to treat yourself afterwards!!! (I went for a chocolate cream cheese brownie after my last meeting!) Cathi

Response:

Good luck at your meeting.  Know that there is a group of people out here rooting for you.    Judy               Ditto!                       Dr. George

Response:

George- I sure do know about those meetings with the stone faced and tight lipped teachers and the tables like aircraft carriers!!! We have a "team meeting" like this every week! I dread them. You would think I could handle them, because in "my other life" I am a special ed teacher, but when it’s my own child, it’s a whole different world. But I can offer you sympathy, as another parent in a similar boat. At a recent meeting, an administrator told me "Well, he may have Tourette’s, but this is PURPOSEFUL behavior we are talking about."   <Sigh

 I have shared handouts, research articles, books, etc on TS. I’ve

had our physician attend meetings. And here we still are. (Ideas and advice are always welcome, if any of you have any suggestions!) Please keep on posting about your son. And hang in there. Feel free to e-mail if you’d like. Cathi in Vermont In article <4fm7tr$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com

, drgeor1…@aol.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(DrGeor107a) writes:

I live in a rural town in Massachussetts and have read most of the books on ADD and Tourette’s. My son is on Ritalin ( a low dose because it brings out the ticks) and Nortryptiline.  He suffers from Tourette’s ,

OCD

, ADD , Sensory Integration with touch defensiveness, Dislexia , and has an essential tremor which effects his writing ability. Yet he is

extremely

bright . The school system has responded by keeping him back a year, trying to label him as an emotional problem and basically stonewalling us the whole way. This is a battle my wife and I have been fighting with

them

for years and getting no where.         Most of the hospital centers are great at diagnosing the problem but have no real delivery system for aiding one in dealing with the schools for services. The school makes no effort to inform us of any services for this condition. Our child is the first in the system to have Tourette’s and he is being discriminated against because of it.  I have just hired a professional advocate and a laywer to deal with the school system because I can not take walking into these parent teachers conferences having to face 15 – 20 educators siting stone face and tight lipped around a table that looks more like the deck of an aircraft carrier, saying absolutely nothing other than your child is a slow

learner

and we need to place him in an inclusion class with other slow learners. When told that he is not learning because he is bored out of his mind and that he is two to three grade levels above the other children in math and science and merely has a languaged based processing problem, they fail to respond. We have been going around on this for years , meanwhile my son has become depressed and withdrawn because of the constant teasing and chastisement by the teachers and other students. I am hoping that the advocate can steer us in the right direction , but as with all other professionals we have to wait a month or two because of the back load of people she has to deal with. Got any suggestions?                                     Dr. George

Response:

Dr. George, Many of us can relate to the heartbrake that you and your wife are experiencing.  You need to take action.  Your school is not living in the nineties or even the seventies!  Someone, perhaps your son’s doc. must explain to them that they are doing the worst possible thing for him!  If he’s not being treated by a competent pediatric neurologist, find one fast.  He may very well respond to medication as both of my kids have. The process may be long and difficult but you have to find the right med. or combination.  Insurance companies will reimburse most of your medical expenses.  I don’t know what state you live in, but in most cicilized communities, your school system should be able to help.  You’ve got to get to know the system. Also, stay tuned to here to get some good advise as many of us here have.  You didn’t get into details as far as what paths you have taken, but there are ways to get help for your son.  You and your wife have got to be optimistic.  Good luck.

Response:

     Here is a poem my wife wrote about our son. We are currently experiencing difficulties in the public school system , which has responded to the diagnosis of Tourette’s simply  by hiring an aid to sit behind our son to tell him to stop his ticks everytime he does it. They refuse to believe they are not voluntary behaviors despite being told by a Neurologist.  His current ticks are rocking and picking his nose . Naturally his ticks are becoming worse and the town refuses to respond to his special needs. Meanwhile all our monies are being drained on doctors , lawyers , eductional advocates, with no end in sight. How can this type of ignorance still exist in the nineties?                                      Dr. George                Chris The children call him a tard, life for my son has been hard. Their words burn in his ears. He turns inwards to hide the tears. Rock back and fourth in his pain, people treat him with disdain. They talk to him real slow. It makes him want to get up and go. My son pulls out all his hair, he has to snort, burp,  and swear. If you look at him in the eye makes him feel like he’d die. In sadness he sinks all alone A boy’s heart, heavy as a stone. He’s different from us, can’t you see? He has Tourette’s syndrome and A.D.D. Body and mind in constant motion gentle spirit grows in the commotion. God give him strength I pray, he will be happy someday.                                        by Millie

Response:

    I live in a rural town in Massachussetts and have read most of the books on ADD and Tourette’s. My son is on Ritalin ( a low dose because it brings out the ticks) and Nortryptiline.  He suffers from Tourette’s , OCD , ADD , Sensory Integration with touch defensiveness, Dislexia , and has an essential tremor which effects his writing ability. Yet he is extremely bright . The school system has responded by keeping him back a year, trying to label him as an emotional problem and basically stonewalling us the whole way. This is a battle my wife and I have been fighting with them for years and getting no where.          Most of the hospital centers are great at diagnosing the problem but have no real delivery system for aiding one in dealing with the schools for services. The school makes no effort to inform us of any services for this condition. Our child is the first in the system to have Tourette’s and he is being discriminated against because of it.  I have just hired a professional advocate and a laywer to deal with the school system because I can not take walking into these parent teachers conferences having to face 15 – 20 educators siting stone face and tight lipped around a table that looks more like the deck of an aircraft carrier, saying absolutely nothing other than your child is a slow learner and we need to place him in an inclusion class with other slow learners. When told that he is not learning because he is bored out of his mind and that he is two to three grade levels above the other children in math and science and merely has a languaged based processing problem, they fail to respond. We have been going around on this for years , meanwhile my son has become depressed and withdrawn because of the constant teasing and chastisement by the teachers and other students. I am hoping that the advocate can steer us in the right direction , but as with all other professionals we have to wait a month or two because of the back load of people she has to deal with. Got any suggestions?                                      Dr. George

Response:

I am hoping that the advocate can steer us in the right direction , but as with all other professionals we have to wait a month or two because of the back load of people she has to deal with. Got any suggestions?

The frustration you experience as a result of dealing with the ignorance and hostility of the school system can be overwhelming- I know.  As you anticipate, an impartial outsider who truly understands both TS and the school system may be able to help.  While you are waiting for the advocate to get involved, there are a number of options for you.  Some things to consider are:  enlist the aid of a sympathetic legislator or other community member who has high esteem and/or power in the community (this worked  for us in getting the Committee on Special Education to listen to us); homeschool temporarily until the school makes the necessary educational modifications; give up on public education and opt for either private school or homeschooling.  Meanwhile, make sure you document every contact you have with the school system- keep written records on everything.  It is also necessary to have a doctor who will assist you with the educational problems associated with TS- you need to have a medical report that specifies the behaviors that your son has that are due to a neurological disorder (not emotional) and what educational modifications are necessary because of his neurological disorder.   Good luck-    Judy

Response:

Have you checked out your local office of civil rights (OCR).  As a parent of a special ed. student, you have a tremendous amount of backing.  They will file a lawsuit for you against the school at no cost to you.  But I warn you, teachers/adminstrators don’t like this and will act so coldly towards you that it could backfire.  Darcie

Response:

I live in Eastern Massachusetts. I prefer not give the name of my town because I don’t want my son persecuted any more than he already is. But any suggestions on how to deal with the school systems properly would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to E mail me too.                                Dr. George PS           I posted the poem in the hope that it would strengthen others. My prayers go out for all of you.

Response:

THis year’s

in late March, would be an excellent resource for you, your wife, and some of the educators (if they would go) in your school ;system.< Yes , I am signed up for this, have notified the school , and my newly hired advocate will come as well. She asked me to find a contact person from the Tourette’s support group who deals with school issues near the Worcester area. Can you E mail me who this would be?                            Dr. George

Response:

Ramona writes:

It is not fair to generalize about educators . I have found that they are very willing to learn about Tourett’s and will try to make adaptations in their programs. Of course, not all educators are "open" but neither are they all "closed". Educators are facing many more challenges in the classroom right now. Public support is most important

In the last four years, since my 11 yr old son’s TS symptoms were severe enough to interfere with his classroom behavior, he has had eight teachers (not counting music, art,  health, and gym, which he only has once or twice a week).  Four of them have been accepting, creative, took a positive approach to problem solving, and worked very well with my son. Two of the eight were bordering on abusive (name-calling, ridiculing, screaming) and refused to change their behavior.  The other two are misinformed  defensive and antagonistic, but are trying to be open-minded and are still approachable.   I don’t think anyone is saying all teachers are bad.  In our case, it has been 50%; that is a whopping high proportion.  Fair, you say?  In our district, the median teacher’s salary is $65,000.  These teachers have tenure, unlimited sick leave with pay,  health insurance completely paid for by the school district,  generous retirement plan.  Sorry, I do not support these teachers- they’re getting an awful lot for not doing their job.  BTW, I think the other 50% deserve everything they are getting and more.    Judy Simon

Response:

Question:

You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters. Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

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You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters.

Just to let you know where I’m coming from, for what it’s worth, here’s a quote from "The Molecular Foundations of Psychiatry" by S.E.Hyman & E.J. Nestler, pg 71:         Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme of catecholamine         [i.e. dopamine and norepinephrine] synthesis…Because tyrosine         hydroxylase exists at relatively low levels, and *under normal         conditions* is already supersaturated by the amount of tyrosine         found in the brain, it is very difficult to influence brain         catecholamine synthesis through variations in dietary tyrosine. Notice the qualification "under normal conditions".  There could be exceptions, for example, in persons with abnormal brain chemistry. Stanley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

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Which is the reason that L-Dopa is used to treat Parkinson’s disease rather than tyrosine.  I beleive that too many people expect too great of results from substances such as amino acids  Similarly too many in the medical/scientific community are just as fast to write off any real effect.   To simply state that tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting factor may be a simplification.  (Does this consider variations depending on time of day?)   The Wender writing stated that a period of two weeks passed before an effect was noticed, which he compared to the delayed response found in most antidepressant drugs.  (Similarly he found no usefulness beyond 6 weeks, tolerance?) To my understanding, tricyclic antidepressants cause an immediate blockage of reuptake and consequential increase in synaptic transmitter levels but clinical response is delayed 2-6 weeks.  Why?  This suggests actions beyond the immediate cast of players, be it amino acids, enzymes, neurotransmitters and/or drugs, on an IMMEDIATE basis. I hope to respond to you giving a few other citations later. I invite your comments on a relate issue, ie, the differing actions of d-amphetamine and methylphenidate.  As a person with ADD, I had extreme problems (anxiety, dysphoria) with larger doses of Ritalin(40-60mg/dose), which my doctor simply excused to my greater awareness to the world.  I have no such problems with ROUGHLY equivalent doses of Dexedrine(15mg).  I have read that these two drugs act on different dopamine pools in the brain, and that methylphenidate actually inhibits the actions of amphetamine.(Research I beleive done by a researcher at Duke, McEwen or similar name reported in TIPS mid 80s)  Similarly methylphenidate seems to provoke epileptic activity, where amphetamine tends to inhibit it (Dexedrine is marketed as an anticonvulsant in Canada, I doubt this is only for its anti-drowsiness effects re phenobarbital) As a child I experienced nocturnal epilepsy but I have read nothing clinically about the selection of antiADD drugs in epileptics for example.  What is the current thinking (theoretically as well as clinically) regarding this diffenence between the actions of thes amphetamine like drugs and the methylphenidate like drugs?. Regards Bob

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Tyrosine is a great way to prevent depletion of neurotransmitters as a result of psychostimulant therapy. Phenylalanine competes with tryptophan for entry to the brain and should not even be considered – it made me angry as all hell!! All by itself its probably nowhere near as effective, because the body is good at keeping levels where it thinks they should be. L-Dopa effectively bypasses this mechanism – anyone got any data on it? L-Dopa can [according to a friend] be made by feeding potatoes lots of tyrosine, then eating them [he didnt say whether they were cooked or not] — Its always the same / Im the only one who’s always left to blame / Take what you can take / Hurt is your only idea of a game / To break away / I dont have that within me / And I’m not afraid / So I bite the hand that feeds me… / When all you do is break me / And put me in a cage     Front 242, Animal.

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Someone posted a message recently about Tyrosine conflicting with antidepressants. Anyone have any details?

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: I really hate these kinds of replies. : Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve : succeeded in making me angry. : I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. : about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every : drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. : lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without : knowing. : If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN : EXCESS! : Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would : appreciate it.   : I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone : respond to me like this. Jason, you _asked_ for opinions; and that’s what you got.  Don’t complain that somebody offered you the best advice that anybody could in response to your description of experimenting with self-treatment for ADD "symptoms". I’ve tried Ritalin, switched to Dexedrine, went back to Ritalin, added Effexor along with Ritalin, and still some of my symptoms persist. However, all through this process (a little over 2 years now) I’ve been seeing a therapist (psychologist) on a regular basis, as well at the less frequent appointments with neurologist, neuropsychologist, and psychiatrist. Oh, can’t forget my general practicioner MD, either. For many people, drugs are not enough–some type of therapy or counselling can help them take control over their life.  For some of us it’s the first time ever we’ve felt even close to being in the driver’s seat, and it can be a frightening/frustrating experience–not knowing what we’re supposed to do first, or do next, or do after that, or… Final note: regarding self-prescribed vitamin, mineral, amino acid, "natural" supplements, a biochemical/medical researcher (PhD+) advised me, "I recommend against it; when you start messing with chemical balance in your brain you can really screw things up."   _I’d_ recommend taking Ed’s advice: seek professional help and stick with it. (I apologize if the tone of this post started getting hot, but what you’re  doing _is_ playing with fire.  Be really careful!)       "Well, heck. It sounded like a _really_good_idea_, at the time."

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I really hate these kinds of replies. Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve succeeded in making me angry. I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without knowing. If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN EXCESS! Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would appreciate it.   I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone respond to me like this. Jason —- The fear of the unknown is a response to the excesses of the imagination.

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