Question:

i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning.  it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this.  also my tongue  whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will

It sure sounds like yeast infection [candida]. You will need a prescription antifungal like Nystatin. Here are pictures: http://www.gastrolab.net/pa-047.htm Candia Oesophagitis due to Treatment with Inhalated Steroids Candidiasis (Cutaneous) To minimize future occurances, be sure to use an AeroChamber spacer with your Flovent MDI; rinse and gargle after inhaling and drink a glass of water to wash residue down. Ellis

Response:

Since you’re on inhaled steroids and have these symptoms, it’s a pretty good bet that you have thrush.  This is a fungal infection that can be fought with Nystatin mouthwash.  But why guess?  It’s worth a visit to your doctor.  Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning.  it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this.  also my tongue  whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will

Response:

i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning.  it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this.  also my tongue  whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will

Response:

Sounds like it to me… It is very painful I hear… I’ve seen it only on my son so I couldn’t attest to that.  I would check it out with your doctor…there are some very good medications to get rid of it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning.  it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this.  also my tongue  whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will

Response:

Question:

Dear Joan, I am a Candida biologist. Candida albicans, a dimorphic fungus with yeast and hyphal (like other fungi) phases, is the major causative agent of thrush, followed by some other Candida species. WHile all organisms grow on sugars, Candida albicans thrives well on serum (which does have glucose in it of course as well) and on human tissues. Indeed if you stop cells from making the hyphal form, they are no longer infective. Serum in the absence of added sugars, promotes this invasive hyphal form. I think adding more sugar may stimulate the yeast form a bit-( hmm I never tried that experiment – adding more glucose to the serum plates). Candida is not like bakers yeast, and bakers yeast does not encourage the growth of Candida albicans. You can also consume sugar in normal quantities (if you’re not diaetic of course). The books that deal with candida cleansing diets are not supported by scientific studies. The scientific Candida community has analysed the theories and treatments proposed in these books (diets and the claims they make) They are unfounded. I have looked the studies up on medline myself- and I see that the authors of several books on the subject have made huge assumptions based on very very little data, and actually have thwarted the truth. A complete if not outdated book on Candida infections which even reviews the book "the yeast connection" is "Candida and Candidosis: A review and bibliography" (1989-I think) by FC Odds who was at Leeds in the UK for many years and is now at Jaansen (ie also own J&J) in belgium. He refuses to write a new edition. But his book  remains the most complete and unbiased medical book on the subject. It is out of print. I do have a photocopy of it, or libraries should be able to get you a copy. Medical Schools should have a copy or access to one. Every single study on Candida up to the pub. date is covered in that book- very factual. I have looked over all of the alternative suggestions proposed on this thread. None of them have proven to my knowledge. Definitely do not use any mouthwashs or treatments that kill the bacteria in you mouth. The bacteria help you to fight off thrush.  Gingivitiis is bacterial in origin- do not use washes that treat this. I even asked my pharmacist to confirm this when I had recurrent thrush. Lots of healthy garlic has been shown to kill candida and bacteria- but yikes (yes the scientific community acknowkedges this)- but actualy the studies are in vitro. No proof that consuming garlic helps -to my knowledge. Unfortunately, steroid inhalers I believe affect the same immune cells in the mouth that keep Candida at bay.  I had to switch from flovent (a stronger steroid) to azmacort (which does not work as well for me). Fungal infections are stubborn. 1) you want to treat the underlying cause if possible causes can include: being on antibiotics, diabetes immune disorders (i.e.AIDS) treatment with immunosuppressive agents (ie. us asthmatics) Chemotherapy dentures 2) You need to stick to the antifungal treatment until the thrush clears up, and also solve the underlying cause or it will just recur.  Why? The antifungals being used, do not kill the candida too well, but do stop them from growing (they can’t make their cell membranes). There may be some nongrowing cells that stick around and thus the infection can recur. You need to make sure those immune cells in the mouth are ok. So rinsing with water and using a spacer are critical with the steroid inhalers. Good Luck! Chilla ps. you could also have a drug resisitant strain of candida in your mouth . You could try other classes of antifungals. Nystatin vs. the azoles (like clortrimazole). These belong to different chemical classes

Response:

I didn’t intend to sound critical.  Just wanted to add to the pool of information.   SJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

joan, i don’t know of anything else that you can take that would help prevent thrush. I do have a lot of patients on prednisone and steroid inhalers, but i have not seen as much problem with thrush as it is in your case. Just make sure that you don’t have diabetes or steroid induced hyperglycemia (elevated blood sugars). yatin j patel md http://md4lungs.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

– Yatin J Patel MD http://md4lungs.com If you have asthma, this is your home. Join Dr. Patel every wednesday 7 PM Indiana Time for online chats. Before you buy.

Response:

* also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.

I do not think that this is accurate. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I had thrush and my doctor told me that it was probably a result of the inhaled steroids rather than oral (I was on flovent too.)  What you need to do is rinse your mouth and throat after using your inhaler so the steroid is not sticking to the membranes in your mouth. Hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

i work in a health food store, and have tried a few natural remidies…(with all the other prescriptions i’m on, i don’t want another!) here are a few suggestions that i have found to work.. *Acidophilus.. i prefer PB8 but any with 10 billion or more active cultures is good *gargling with tea tree oil mouthwash or vinegar and water.. i actually do both sometimes, after i use my inhalers and after i brush my teeth. * also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.  these are more preventitive than a cure… but i have found that it does help, i have very infrequent problems now instead of every month or so… good luck!

Response:

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  

Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

I’m just guessing here but would yogurt (With live cultures) help?  How about a vinegar and water mouthwash?  Just trying to remember what the natural remedies for yeast problems are. While they don’t usually work well as a cure, maybe as a preventive? Jo An Firey * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug.

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  Also, Colgate Palmolive’s "Peroxyl" (nonprescription) is a very good oral antiseptic, with the benefit of being pleasant-tasting, especially effective when used right before bedtime, after you’re brushed and flossed.  You might also want to seriously consider treating yourself to Teledyne Water Pik’s "SENSONIC" tooth brush, an excellent product, leagues ahead of any ordinary toothbrush, even the other mundane electric toothbrushes. I used to really suffer with constant bouts of thrush but no more after adopting the above regimen, a much better alternative to guzzling liter after liter of Nystatin, BLECH! Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

Question:

I used to have the same side effects. It lasted long, at least a month. I wasn’t working at that time. About an hour after taking 10mg I got pale and sweaty on the face, extremely sleepy and had a terrible headache. Cofee helped me a lot, that I normally don’t drink cause it boosts my anxiety when in stressful situations. I felt better taking Paxil early in the morning or in the night; the worst in the afternoon (It’ still like that). Nowadays (after a year) I get a bit drowsy with a headache after taking Paxil, but not more often than once a week, especially when I take it irregulary. boasss

Response:

Well, I guess that I am certainly living proof that side affects don’t "affect" everyone.   I’ve been on Paxil for over a year now, and have nothing but positive things about it.   It does work, and it does help.  If the side effects are too much, that’s one thing, but just because a few people get them doesn’t mean you will! "sssboa" <sss…@goto.hell.pl

wrote in message

news:9hdu8m$slm$1@news.tpi.pl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I used to have the same side effects. It lasted long, at least a month. I wasn’t working at that time. About an hour after taking 10mg I got pale

and

sweaty on the face, extremely sleepy and had a terrible headache. Cofee helped me a lot, that I normally don’t drink cause it boosts my anxiety

when

in stressful situations. I felt better taking Paxil early in the morning

or

in the night; the worst in the afternoon (It’ still like that). Nowadays (after a year) I get a bit drowsy with a headache after taking Paxil, but not more often than once a week, especially when I take it irregulary. boasss

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I don’t consider my side-effects serious after all. boasss

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           Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

Response:

meow wrote:

           Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

The head ache can be a side effect of paxil as well as the sleeping. At what time of the day are you taking the drug? Try to take all your dose before you go to bed. If it doesn’t matter when you take it, i.e. you are sleepy all day then I would try another drug. I used to get sleepy from taking paxil and a headache sometimes. Richard

Response:

In article <ncqijtsfejqfv4jp0f616an32tnjpfg…@4ax.com

, meow <nospammeo…@rochester.com writes:            Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

Paxil had me so out of it that if I wasn’t sleeping, I had to be flat on my back to avoid getting queezy.  Take a good look at the side effects list for paxil.  I found that I suffered practically all of them.  Worse still was coming off of it.  I had become so dependant that standing up became a challenge – I’d suddenly have my equilibrium jolt off one way or another and practically fall over.  This happened for MONTHS after getting off of it. If you can at all avoid it, stay away from the stuff and go with something less volatile.  I’m on effexir now, and while missing a day leaves me cranky as all get-out, it is night-and-day better than paxil ever was.         rOn

Response:

Paxil had me so out of it that if I wasn’t sleeping, I had to be flat on my back to avoid getting queezy.  Take a good look at the side effects list for paxil.  I found that I suffered practically all of them.  Worse still was coming off of it.  I had become so dependant that standing up became a challenge – I’d suddenly have my equilibrium jolt off one way or another and practically fall over.  This happened for MONTHS after getting off of it.

rOn:

If you can at all avoid it, stay away from the stuff and go with something less volatile.  I’m on effexir now, and while missing a day leaves me cranky as all get-out, it is night-and-day better than paxil ever was.

I went from Paxil to Effexor, too. I agree, it’s ten times better. Thing is, though (according to my doc), you should never miss an Effexor dose AT ALL.Yah, it will make you cranky. For my kids’ sake, I make sure I refill early. JLeon

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nancy wrote….. I went for my physical today.  I sure am glad to get it over with.  He wants me to have cholestrol test done not for anything other than high c runs in the family.  He’s also booking me for a brain scan because my mother has anuerisms and they can sometimes run in the family.  My blood pressure was good and my heart rate was good.  This suprised me because it was thumping like a wild think while I was in the waiting room! He doubled up my dose of Zoloft to 50mg and gave me some more ativan.  Thank God for ativan it seems to be the only thing that is keeping me sane these days. Oh also I am off work for at least another month.  *Phew*  I was worried about that because I am just not ready to go back there yet. I had a nice surprise visit from my brother tonight (who has only been to my place twice before in the past 8 years).  It was a really pleasant visit.  I really like him but we have never had a close relationship. I told the doctor that I had a good day on Sunday but then relapsed on Monday and ever since.  He saw that as a good sign.  At least I had one good day.  I really like him, he is our new family doctor and I only started seeing him when I got this bought of PA he seems pretty thorough.

Dear Nancy, I`m glad to hear that your doctor visit went well. I agree with your doctor that your good day even though it was followed by a setback, is a good thing. You can`t have a setback unless you had made some progress to begin with. The 50 mg increase in your Zoloft dose is a big increase at one time for a person with an anxiety disorder. Just wanted to point that out in case your anxiety or side-effects increase a bit during the next few days. Make sure to use your Ativan during this period. Take care Jackie ~*~The world breaks us all. Afterward, some are stronger at the broken places.

Response:

Hi Nancy! I’m happy that things went well at the doctor’s office.  It’s better to get these tests out of the way and be able to relax afterwards.  It’s great you had such a nice visit with your brother.  I hope you have many more of them. I’m with you about Ativan. Hugs, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I went for my physical today.  I sure am glad to get it over with.  He wants me to have cholestrol test done not for anything other than high c runs in the family.  He’s also booking me for a brain scan because my mother has anuerisms and they can sometimes run in the family.  My blood pressure was good and my heart rate was good.  This suprised me because it was thumping like a wild think while I was in the waiting room! He doubled up my dose of Zoloft to 50mg and gave me some more ativan. Thank God for ativan it seems to be the only thing that is keeping me sane these days. Oh also I am off work for at least another month.  *Phew*  I was worried about that because I am just not ready to go back there yet. I had a nice surprise visit from my brother tonight (who has only been to my place twice before in the past 8 years).  It was a really pleasant visit. I really like him but we have never had a close relationship. I told the doctor that I had a good day on Sunday but then relapsed on Monday and ever since.  He saw that as a good sign.  At least I had one good day.  I really like him, he is our new family doctor and I only started seeing him when I got this bought of PA he seems pretty thorough. Sorry for the length, Nancy Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

Response:

This is good that you are having all of these tests and that so far, they are showing that you are doing well.  This will take a big load off your mind once all the tests come back negative.  Having the next month off will give you a chance to get used to the Zoloft at a higher dose and let everything settle. Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I went for my physical today.  I sure am glad to get it over with.  He wants me to have cholestrol test done not for anything other than high c runs in the family.  He’s also booking me for a brain scan because my mother has anuerisms and they can sometimes run in the family.  My blood pressure was good and my heart rate was good.  This suprised me because it was thumping like a wild think while I was in the waiting room! He doubled up my dose of Zoloft to 50mg and gave me some more ativan.   Thank God for ativan it seems to be the only thing that is keeping me sane these days. Oh also I am off work for at least another month.  *Phew*  I was worried about that because I am just not ready to go back there yet. I had a nice surprise visit from my brother tonight (who has only been to my place twice before in the past 8 years).  It was a really pleasant visit.  I really like him but we have never had a close relationship. I told the doctor that I had a good day on Sunday but then relapsed on Monday and ever since.  He saw that as a good sign.  At least I had one good day.  I really like him, he is our new family doctor and I only started seeing him when I got this bought of PA he seems pretty thorough. Sorry for the length, Nancy Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

– Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.                            –Henry Kaiser

Response:

Hi All, I went for my physical today.  I sure am glad to get it over with.  He wants me to have cholestrol test done not for anything other than high c runs in the family.  He’s also booking me for a brain scan because my mother has anuerisms and they can sometimes run in the family.  My blood pressure was good and my heart rate was good.  This suprised me because it was thumping like a wild think while I was in the waiting room! He doubled up my dose of Zoloft to 50mg and gave me some more ativan.  Thank God for ativan it seems to be the only thing that is keeping me sane these days. Oh also I am off work for at least another month.  *Phew*  I was worried about that because I am just not ready to go back there yet. I had a nice surprise visit from my brother tonight (who has only been to my place twice before in the past 8 years).  It was a really pleasant visit.  I really like him but we have never had a close relationship. I told the doctor that I had a good day on Sunday but then relapsed on Monday and ever since.  He saw that as a good sign.  At least I had one good day.  I really like him, he is our new family doctor and I only started seeing him when I got this bought of PA he seems pretty thorough. Sorry for the length, Nancy Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

Response:

Question:

My pdoc tells me that mood stabilizers help with manic stages more than depression, and that anti-depressants are needed for the down times of bipolar. Hope that helps! Can SSRI’s such as Prozac and Effexor help with moodyness and a bit of bi- polar? Mood stabilizers help with moods sure, but what about helping the depression?

Before you buy.

Response:

Can SSRI’s such as Prozac and Effexor help with moodyness and a bit of bi- polar? Mood stabilizers help with moods sure, but what about helping the depression?

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Shannon, You shouldn’t wean off Xanax while weaning on Celexa. Xanax helps you avoiding initial Celexa side effects which you’re so afraid of. So you’d better wait till Celexa is working properly. You can take Advil for headaches with your other meds but it might be a good question to consider whether your headache is’t an anxiety symptom too which may disappear when the Celexa will have kicked in (which may take a while, up to eight weeks although beneficial effect may come much earlier). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Shannon –   I’ll start with the positive report that I’ve been on Zoloft (another SSRI like Celexa) for 10 weeks with no big problems with side-effects…I have another friend who’s fiancee is on Celexa and loves it!  Also, I’ve been on Xanax and Zoloft the entire time and have taken Advil several times with no problems…   As far as the Xanax weening, take your time…I was taking .25 mg/ 6 times a day…I am now down to three…First things first, I would not reduce your Xanax for at least several weeks so that you have time to adjust to the Celexa and see some results (the AD’s will not do anything for several weeks).  From my doctor’s advice and my own experience I recommend the following to ensure no problems:  Reduce your intake by no more than .25 mg/week…The best thing to do is to stop taking it first at times when you normally feel least anxious (for me the bedtime dose went first)…Also, DON’T feel like you must adhere to your reduced dosage…If you are having breakthrough problems (as per me the last few days), I’ve found you are much better off taking the extra dose that day so that you don’t aggrevate your situation…You should be able to go to your reduced dose as soon as your breakthrough ends… Hope this all helps… — Charles Phipps

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks Shannon –  I’ll start with the positive report that I’ve been on Zoloft (another SSRI like Celexa) for 10 weeks with no big problems with side-effects…I have another friend who’s fiancee is on Celexa and loves it!  Also, I’ve been on Xanax and Zoloft the entire time and have taken Advil several times with no problems…  As far as the Xanax weening, take your time…I was taking .25 mg/ 6 times a day…I am now down to three…First things first, I would not reduce your Xanax for at least several weeks so that you have time to adjust to the Celexa and see some results (the AD’s will not do anything for several weeks).  From my doctor’s advice and my own experience I recommend the following to ensure no problems:  Reduce your intake by no more than .25 mg/week…The best thing to do is to stop taking it first at times when you normally feel least anxious (for me the bedtime dose went first)…Also, DON’T feel like you must adhere to your reduced dosage…If you are having breakthrough problems (as per me the last few days), I’ve found you are much better off taking the extra dose that day so that you don’t aggrevate your situation…You should be able to go to your reduced dose as soon as your breakthrough ends… Hope this all helps… — Charles Phipps

Hi Shannon! I’m only 6 weeks ahead of you! Just Xanax and Celexa-not the other one. I didn’t even discuss weaning for the 1st 4 weeks when everything started kicking in with the Celexa. My doc said I’d probably "know" when it was time and she was right. Now that the Celexa is working, the Xanax actually works like it does for people without panic-I get too sleepy! And like Charles, I’ve had moments or a day when I had to take that extra .25mg after not having it-just try to go with the flow, which will probably be your mood eventually anyway. Just take it a day at a time. BTW, I was on 3mgs a day total of Xanax for almost 3 years-I’m down to 2.25mgs a day and everythings been just fine. Celexa does work well. Try to get back to me when you want to know about any of the less pretty aspects…most were transient and not bad at all. I thought it was helpful to find people who had the same reactions. Otherwise, I think I would have been more paranoid. Let me know. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks — Shannon the Barbarian ~*Note To Self : Never, ever post to a Newsgroup again without Headgear and Full Body Armor*~

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Hi Shannon, In my opinion this is not the time to be weaning off your Xanax. Most people while weaning on a anti-depressant use a benzo to help them. If you start getting funny physical sensations, you might blame the Celexa when it is really being caused by weaning off Xanax. Who told you that you had to wean off Xanax? I really advise you against decreasing your Xanax dose as of this time. You need to talk to your therapist when he gets back from holiday. I do not recommend taking Advil with the Propanolol. I would call your doctor and discuss this with him. There is a possible interaction if you take the two, and that is a decreased anti-hypertensive effect of the Propanolol. Tylenol should be fine. I think I answered you questions without saying anything bad about the Celexa…..<G!!!! Good luck!! Jackie "Strange as it may seem, my life is based on a true story

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Question:

Without blinking an eye, he wrote a script for testosterone cream. I’d actually heard about it on the Leeza show and on Oprah, but figured my HMO would never provide such a thing–it has to be compounded. I have been on the testosterone cream for about 3 months–and my desire is SOOOO much better–not like when I was 20, but at least sex is now a regular activity for us.

You’ve got a very cool doctor.  I never thought of that.  Thanks for mentioning it.  

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Without blinking an eye, he wrote a script for testosterone cream. I’d actually heard about it on the Leeza show and on Oprah, but figured my HMO would never provide such a thing–it has to be compounded. I have been on the testosterone cream for about 3 months–and my desire is SOOOO much better–not like when I was 20, but at least sex is now a regular activity for us. You’ve got a very cool doctor.  I never thought of that.  Thanks for mentioning it.  

I saw him on a fluke.  I now have a NEW ob/gyn.  I was so afraid he would not speak english due to his name–I made hubby go with me. you see, I found a growth–or so I thought and I was really scared. Turns out to be just an extra flap of tissue and nothing to worry about. Also, the testosterone cream has totally alleviated my vulvodena–a pain in the you know where! LOL Nancy To respond via email, delete "nospam" from my address. Please visit the new moderated recovery group at alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info Also, check out the guafenisin group at alt.med.fibromyalgia.guaifenesin Please visit the new group, alt.talk.grandparents.

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I have been on trazadone for almost 20 years.  Last summer, I lost all sexual desire–I don tthink it was the traz or other meds–maybe just stress of my situation. First I tried OTC synthetic progesterone and wild yam cream–that helped quite a bit.  Then I had a urgent appointment with a new ob/gyn (I am female) on another issue.and told him about my desire issue. Without blinking an eye, he wrote a script for testosterone cream. I’d actually heard about it on the Leeza show and on Oprah, but figured my HMO would never provide such a thing–it has to be compounded. I have been on the testosterone cream for about 3 months–and my desire is SOOOO much better–not like when I was 20, but at least sex is now a regular activity for us. HTH someone, Nancy To respond via email, delete "nospam" from my address. Please visit the new moderated recovery group at alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info Also, check out the guafenisin group at alt.med.fibromyalgia.guaifenesin Please visit the new group, alt.talk.grandparents.

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I found this message board with posts from pdocs and others talking about how to revive sex drives in depressed patients who lose it through taking anti depressants.  I thought it might be of interest. Dr. Bob’s Psychopharmacology Tips SSRI sexual dysfunction —— I have had good experience withe use of buspirone to reverse SSRI effects on libido and orgasm and find this method to be more useful than other approaches touted in the literature. —— I haven’t had much luck with buspirone reversing sexual dysfunction (I am having better luck with bupropion). —— He responded very well to Prozac. Unfortunately he developed intolerable retarded ejaculation. Bupropion would be a good choice as it seldom causes sexual dysfunction. Trazodone can seldom be given in doses high enough to be effective without being too sedating. If the bupropion does not help, you might consider restarting the Prozac and co-administering buspirone 10-20 mg tid. Buspirone has been reported to protect some men from the sexual side effects of the SSRIs. If the buspirone fails, some other medications that may help sexual function are amantadine and cyproheptadine. —— I have found a number of strategies useful with this type of problem but no one panacea. Sometimes, adding 75 mg of bupropion can make a difference. There has been some success for some of my patients with cyproheptadine 2-4 mg about an hour before sex although most of my colleagues have not been impressed. There is the danger of the anti-serotonin effect with this drug but I have never encountered it. The sedation might also be a problem (since about half the people using antihistamines become sedated). Of course, sedation would be a big problem with trazodone, especially for those of us who favor morning sex. —— Although I haven’t had a report from any patients yet, I’ve heard that nefazodone (Serzone) is similar to bupropion in absence of sexual side effects. —— Either treat the sexual dysfunction secondary to SSRIs with one of the anecdotal treatments, e.g. buspirone 10-20 mg po tid, amantidine, or cyproheptidine, or switch to venlafaxine (in my experience less sexual dysfunction) or bupropion. —— Dr. John Feighner (creater of the Feighner criteria, which led to the RDC and then to DSM-III and IV) states that he has successfully treated SSRI-associated sexual dysfunction in 3 individuals with methylphenidate (Ritalin), 10-30 mg/day. This fits conceptually with reports of the efficacy of amantadine, another dopamine agonist, and with the idea that SSRI-associated apathy (including lowered libido) may be related to dopamine down-regulation. —— I’ve had fairly good (75%, small n) luck with cyproheptadine, 2-4 mg several hours before sex or 2-4 mg TID regularly, for sexual dysfunction/loss of interest with SSRIs. One also can try adding small doses of bupropion to the SSRI for both depression and loss of sexual interest. —— Some of us have had success with telling patients to skip the dose the day of expected sexual acitivity, and that works pretty well with venlafaxine (Effexor) (not a true SSRI, but…) in my experience. I have also noticed that just switching SSRIs can often alleviate the problem. I seem to be seeing that on the Prozac-Zoloft-Paxil axis I can just move a patient from one to another and often clear things up. I’ll bet that is a buggy solution and that my "n" is not large enough to justify any conclusions, but as long as it works I guess I’ll keep going with it. I have also been disappointed that trying to switch my patients to Wellbutrin, now touted for its lack of sexual side effects, doesn’t seem to help many of them. In the really problematic cases, I urge them to give a TCA a trial, because despite some of the other side effects those are still very reliable medications. I just don’t like having that lethal overdose potential and I prefer the rapid onset of action the SSRIs seem to demonstrate. —— My 2 cents’ worth: Lower SSRI dose. Try SSRI vacation on weekends. Add cyproheptadine 4-28 mg 30-60 min prior to sex (if they can stay awake). Add trazodone if problem seems to be erectile failure. Add bupropion 75-100 mg in AM (adrenergic effect seems to help). Switch out of class to therapeutic dose of bupropion, nefazodone, etc. My experience is that switching within class rarely works but is worth try in some cases. Re-think if this is medication side effect, consider work with couple. —— There are a few more psychopharmacologic interventions that are often useful: amantadine 100 mg bid or tid buspirone 5-10 mg tid or qid (may increase desire too) dextroamphetamine 5 mg tid or qid methylphenidate 10 mg tid or qid. —— I’ve also had good luck adding yohimbine, 5.4 mg bid to tid. —— Yohimbine is often effective but may precipitate manic episodes in pholks with bipolar disorder. —— Try adding buspirone (Buspar). Michael Norden recently reported benefits. I have been doing the same for about a year with substantial benefits about 1/2 the time. I use 5 mg bid upped qweek by 5 bid to 20-30 bid total. Usually it takes a couple of weeks to get effects. If the patient is on high dose SSRIs, be careful. One of my patients had a mild serotonin syndrome-like event on Buspar 60/d and Paxil 60/day. It is also helpful to be more specific about the sexual side effects. Decreased libido and ejaculatory latency are different phenomena and the latter may respond better to Buspar addition. In addition, many (maybe most) men on SSRIs report decreased masturbation frequency. But this does not necessarily indicate sexual dysfunction — since on closer questioning, many of these same men report intact erotic responsiveness to external sexual stimuli. —— One thing to consider is whether you can lower the dose of the SSRI. That was helpful for three of my female patients. Another female patient did well with cyproheptadine (Periactin) though it cut down on spontaneity. —— My experience with SSRIs is that they [can] cause decreased libido as well as anorgasmia. Personally, I believe that the problems are rather difficult to treat. I have had little success with adding Periactin, Buspar or Wellbutrin. I have found that more often than not I am forced to lower the SSRI or stop it completely when the patient complains about these side effects. —— I have found that loss of sex drive in depressed patients often occurs separately from the symptom of diminished libido that is part of depression. The … read more »

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Question:

Geno, That is very sad about your wife =(   Is she on meds??? Maybe she should go to a pain center???  I have those terrible migraines also and they do make you feel like chopping your head off as the pain is so severe.  I have compressed nerve at C-5, and I have a lot of the same problems as your wife…It is tough you must find a caring MD to help her with the pain…. All my best, Kim

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<snip I want some doc to actually help me!!!!  Is that so much to expect?  What types of docs have you seen for the occipital neuralgia?  What other diagnoses have you been given?  If anyone has a list of good links for Occipital neuralgia, I would love to have them!

As you and I have discussed, I too was diagnosed with migraines by four or so neurologists. More recently, my internist and my pain doc both believe that most of my headaches are actually occipital neuralgia (ON), particularly due to the specific tender area around the base of my skull. I think that in my case I have gotten a mix of different kinds of headaches. I have certainly had migraines in the past, but I think they have mostly gone away since I had a septal spur (a pointy piece of bone that was perforating my sinus membranes) removed and my deviated septum straightened almost a year ago, to get rid of chronic sinusitis (all of this was probably triggering most of my migraines). I believe that pretty much all I get *now* are headaches from ON. At this point I tend to believe my pain doc; it’s just a feeling I have about my symptoms and how they fit with ON. I certainly know what you mean about docs thinking they are the ONLY ones that can be right! Geez, talk about a God Complex! Many of them don’t seem to believe themselves capable of making mistakes. One of the docs I respected most was the one that said he could not explain my back pain, but that there might be someone else who could; he actually encouraged me to not stop trying for an answer just because he didn’t have it. It’s too bad he didn’t have the experience to really be of continued help to me, because I appreciated his honesty (he also warned me about not being too hasty to pursue a surgical solution – that my pain could always be made worse). I have a few docs who are also willing to admit when they don’t have an answer or solution, and I value them greatly. Any doc that starts trashing the opinions of previous docs, or just plain ignores my history, sets off warning bells in my head, and such docs have never failed to prove themselves arrogant asses in short order. I will let you know what the new doc says on Tuesday! Cherise

I wish you well in finding a Dx in which you can believe; I know how difficult and frustrating this can be when your health and sanity are stake. John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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Thank you John! Your encouragement means a lot to me! Cherise

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The neurosurgeon said that if a nerve block at C2 helps then it is c2 neuropathy.  BUT I say a rheumatologist today who said that I probably have all of the various diagnosis that I have been given.  That my pain is caused by greater occipital nerve, lesser occipital nerve, nerves at c2 and migraines.  He also said that since I have already tried all of the possible treatments and preventatives and he suggested that surgery may only solve a portion of the problem, that I should consider taking narcotics on a regular basis to treat the pain.  He said all of those diagnoses are hard to prove and harder to solve and that treating the pain is the best solution.  He said this today so we will see how it goes.  At least it is great that I don’t have to suffer so much anymore. The big problem with neuropathy, neuralgia and migraines is that there is no way to determine if that is exactly what a person has.  A doc hears the symptoms and classifies it as whatever he or she thinks it MIGHT be. It is really frustrating and I am sorry that your wife has had so much trouble.  Please tell your wife not to give up.  It takes many many doctors and many tries to find something that works and then it usually only works for a period of time before you are back out there trying it all over again. What types of docs has your wife seen? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  My wife wants to know what tests were done to get the diagnosis of c-2 neuropothy ?  She got an injection of Novacaine in the back of the head to migraines, you have O.N. ! Migraines are quick, easy diagnosis’ that many doctors use when they ‘guessing’ without proof. I get sick and tired of the BS that doctors use to pretend they know what they’re talking about. I can tell if a person is psychotic, but I cannot tell you the exact is causing the my computer, but I’m not a meteorologist ! It’s all guessing at first. Doctors need to work alittle harder at finding out really what the problem is, what’s causing it, and fix the problem !! My wife is currently using a TENS unit. It only helps with ‘minor’ headaches, not the big ones. She is very depressed and has talked of killing herself because of the "possible future" she believes thats in store for her. I keep reminding her that all options haven’t been exhausted yet and to not talk or threaten taking her life. I honestly believe that surgery by a specialized neurosurgeon is going to be the ultimate and final solution. I figure that something(obviously)is causing her pain and it’s physical presence is something to be operated on to cure the problem. We are going on year 4 with her headaches and it’s wrecking the both of us. Please reply with any

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geno sent me an e-mail to ask me to join the discussion and I want you to know that I have not posted in the last few days because I am extremely frustrated with doctors and have not wanted to frustrate anyone else! For the last three years and about $50,000, I have and continue to be diagnosed and treated by some for Migraines, rebound headaches, etc. In the last three months, two docs have diagnosed me without migraines, but with pain from the occipital nerves.  Once called occipital neuralgia and the other called it C2 neuropathy.  Since both wanted to perform surgery, I figured I better find out exactly want I have.  So I saw another neuro.   He said migraines. So at a friends suggestions, I am trying a Rheumatologist on tuesday.  I haven’t seen one of those yet!!! I have tried an enormous amount of things and the most effective was nerve blocks.  But they only last five days and I am sore the first three of those from the injection. So I too am in search of solutions.  I have heard bad things about surgery not being effective and sometimes making it worse!  I am just sick of being diagnosed with different problems and docs thinking that only they can possibly be right.  They are not willing to believe you when you tell them that you have already tried that several times and it did not work. Anyway, so I have rambled and not helped at all.  I am sorry! I want some doc to actually help me!!!!  Is that so much to expect?  What types of docs have you seen for the occipital neuralgia?  What other diagnoses have you been given?  If anyone has a list of good links for Occipital neuralgia, I would love to have them! I will let you know what the new doc says on Tuesday! Cherise Cherise,

  My wife wants to know what tests were done to get the diagnosis of c-2 neuropothy ?  She got an injection of Novacaine in the back of the head to migraines, you have O.N. ! Migraines are quick, easy diagnosis’ that many doctors use when they ‘guessing’ without proof. I get sick and tired of the BS that doctors use to pretend they know what they’re talking about. I can tell if a person is psychotic, but I cannot tell you the exact is causing the computer, but I’m not a meteorologist ! It’s all guessing at first. Doctors need to work alittle harder at finding out really what the problem is, what’s causing it, and fix the problem !! My wife is currently using a TENS unit. It only helps with ‘minor’ headaches, not the big ones. She is very depressed and has talked of killing herself because of the "possible future" she believes thats in store for her. I keep reminding her that all options haven’t been exhausted yet and to not talk or threaten taking her life. I honestly believe that surgery by a specialized neurosurgeon is going to be the ultimate and final solution. I figure that something(obviously)is causing her pain and it’s physical presence is something to be operated on to cure the problem. We are going on year 4 with her headaches and it’s wrecking the both of us. Please reply with any

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Cherise. Few people understand how much pain we have!! Sure HOPE your Dr. will understand and help you on Tuesday!! I said a prayer for you. Hope that’s OK with you?      CW CARES – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geno sent me an e-mail to ask me to join the discussion and I want you to know that I have not posted in the last few days because I am extremely frustrated with doctors and have not wanted to frustrate anyone else! For the last three years and about $50,000, I have and continue to be diagnosed and treated by some for Migraines, rebound headaches, etc. In the last three months, two docs have diagnosed me without migraines, but with pain from the occipital nerves.  Once called occipital neuralgia and the other called it C2 neuropathy.  Since both wanted to perform surgery, I figured I better find out exactly want I have.  So I saw another neuro.   He said migraines. So at a friends suggestions, I am trying a Rheumatologist on tuesday.  I haven’t seen one of those yet!!! I have tried an enormous amount of things and the most effective was nerve blocks.  But they only last five days and I am sore the first three of those from the injection. So I too am in search of solutions.  I have heard bad things about surgery not being effective and sometimes making it worse!  I am just sick of being diagnosed with different problems and docs thinking that only they can possibly be right.  They are not willing to believe you when you tell them that you have already tried that several times and it did not work. Anyway, so I have rambled and not helped at all.  I am sorry! I want some doc to actually help me!!!!  Is that so much to expect?  What types of docs have you seen for the occipital neuralgia?  What other diagnoses have you been given?  If anyone has a list of good links for Occipital neuralgia, I would love to have them! I will let you know what the new doc says on Tuesday! Cherise

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Have you visited this site? Http://www.medtronic.com/neuro/apt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John ,   Thanks for responding. I’ve read similar data about implanted electrodes like you previously descibed. My wife got fitted for her external TENS unit today and so far is feeling somewhat more relieved, however I believe like any good pain medication, the body will find a way to adjust to the extra electrical stimulation and the pain will return full strength. I am not optimistic about the TENS units’ ability to completely remove her discomfort. Like you mentioned, I too believe that the medical community is every bit IGNORANT about the treatments for neuralgia cases. I, on the other hand, believe it is quite simple. If your electric window in you use. The problem is a damaged nerve root or bundle. She never had this problem prior to her car accident and just because it’s not so evident on a MRI doesn’t mean that nothing is wrong. MRIs don’t find pain. I’ll keep us with future updates on my wife’s condition hoping to find the right treatment for her and everyone else. However, please watch out for doctors that are only concerned with the quality of your insurance !!

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I suffer from occiputal neuralgia, too asa result from a rear end car accident in 1991 and a fall on a train that worsened the C5-C6 disk degeneration. My complete neurological workup consisted of MRI of cervical spine, examination, and EMG nerve conduction study.  The EMG revealed nerve damage at C6 right nerve root. The nerve conduction study is also an important piece of the puzzle because the test addresses nerve impulse-MRI only reveals muscle,spinal cord and bone tissue matter at the celluar level. Insist on an EMG !!!!! Good luck! Mary

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Geno sent me an e-mail to ask me to join the discussion and I want you to know that I have not posted in the last few days because I am extremely frustrated with doctors and have not wanted to frustrate anyone else! For the last three years and about $50,000, I have and continue to be diagnosed and treated by some for Migraines, rebound headaches, etc. In the last three months, two docs have diagnosed me without migraines, but with pain from the occipital nerves.  Once called occipital neuralgia and the other called it C2 neuropathy.  Since both wanted to perform surgery, I figured I better find out exactly want I have.  So I saw another neuro.   He said migraines. So at a friends suggestions, I am trying a Rheumatologist on tuesday.  I haven’t seen one of those yet!!! I have tried an enormous amount of things and the most effective was nerve blocks.  But they only last five days and I am sore the first three of those from the injection. So I too am in search of solutions.  I have heard bad things about surgery not being effective and sometimes making it worse!  I am just sick of being diagnosed with different problems and docs thinking that only they can possibly be right.  They are not willing to believe you when you tell them that you have already tried that several times and it did not work. Anyway, so I have rambled and not helped at all.  I am sorry! I want some doc to actually help me!!!!  Is that so much to expect?  What types of docs have you seen for the occipital neuralgia?  What other diagnoses have you been given?  If anyone has a list of good links for Occipital neuralgia, I would love to have them! I will let you know what the new doc says on Tuesday! Cherise

Response:

John ,   Thanks for responding. I’ve read similar data about implanted electrodes like you previously descibed. My wife got fitted for her external TENS unit today and so far is feeling somewhat more relieved, however I believe like any good pain medication, the body will find a way to adjust to the extra electrical stimulation and the pain will return full strength. I am not optimistic about the TENS units’ ability to completely remove her discomfort. Like you mentioned, I too believe that the medical community is every bit IGNORANT about the treatments for neuralgia cases. I, on the other hand, believe it is quite simple. If your electric window in you use. The problem is a damaged nerve root or bundle. She never had this problem prior to her car accident and just because it’s not so evident on a MRI doesn’t mean that nothing is wrong. MRIs don’t find pain. I’ll keep us with future updates on my wife’s condition hoping to find the right treatment for her and everyone else. However, please watch out for doctors that are only concerned with the quality of your insurance !!

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<snipped details of occipital neuralgia problems and would appreciate any new treatment knowledge of any kind. I read that you are thinking of using a TENS unit. Are you using one now ? Do you know of anyone that is ? I feel that surgery is really the only outlet, but my wife wants to try everything first. We feel she has damage in the C2 area in the back of her head and that doctors have just missed it on MRIs. Please respond.

Geno, I am sorry to hear about your wife’s troubles; it sounds like her head pain is more intense and harder to control than mine. I have been finding that I always have a tender area near the base of my skull and along the side of my head, in the back. I can get temporary relief (or at least diminished pain) many times by pressing or massaging these areas. I have tried using the TENS unit, and have had some success with it; the problem is that, unless I start shaving around the base of skull, there is too much hair (I keep my hair cut the same as when I an Air Force officer – short) to have the electrode stick well, so I pretty much have to lay down on it to keep it in place. When it is working properly, I get the sensation that the muscle stimulation from the TENS "masks" the feelings of pain, but I can’t say how much pain it might be able to mask. My doc, while not advocating it right now, said that, if things became unbearable, I could have electrodes  (and a signal-generating unit) implanted. This would allow me have the same effect as the TENS, but without it falling off. This is more drastic than I am willing to do right now, but I am comforted in knowing that there is *something* more permanent available. I have also found some relief from a massage therapist who is very good at trigger-point release; it hurts more while she is doing it, but I feel better for hours because she is able to loosen up the muscles that get so tensed up. As far as surgery for your wife goes, have you had spinal/neck specialists read her MRI films directly? I know that you have been through doc after doc, as many of here have done, but how many do you feel took a serious look for structural cause for the neuralgia? Has she ever tried epidural injections or something similar? It seems, in principle, that if a specific nerve root can be identified as the source of the problems, that she become a candidate for an implanted medication pump (I am just brainstorming here). Does she get help from wearing a soft cervical collar, or from muscle relaxants (e.g, baclofen, soma, skelaxen, etc.)? I wish I could give more answers and hope for improvement. I have gathered from what I have read and been told that a significant number of Occ. Neuralgia cases are not really explained by the present understanding of the medical community (i.e., they can’t point to bony spur or someting as the irritant for the nerve. In this way it is similar to myofascial pain syndrome (which I also have), fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue syndrome. All these ailments (and I am sure there are more) are now accepted to be real, physical problems that can be definitively diagnosed by the right specialist (physical medicine specialists seem to have more training in many of these things than most), but the causes are poorly understood which means that there are no well-defined treatments either. In the words of a good doc I know, who went through a very difficult medical problem that latest many years, we need to hope that we can just last long enough for medical science to catch up to us. Take care, John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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botox injections have been shown to be very effective for occipital neuralgia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just recently found out that Occipital Neuralgia was what I had.  I have had nerve blocks that last about five days.  Of course, I am sore from the procedure for three of those five. I am looking for a doc who has suggestions on a more permanent solution. They all go right to surgery, but I would like to know all of my options. What about you?  What have you heard as possible solutions? Cherise I am still trying to find someone to treat me. Like you, I spent most of the last year assuming I was experiencing a form of migraine. Right now I can’t find a neuro to treat me (they freak out when they hear of my meds for my back pain), so I am seeing my pain doc tomorrow to see what ideas he has. What kind of surgery has been suggested to you? What kind of doc was it that suggested it? John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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John, One doc was an anesthesiologist who specialized in pain management.  He wanted to do Rhizitomy, where they freeze the nerves.  But for a pain doc, he would not help ease the pain in the meantime with pain meds. The other is a neurosurgeon who wants to remove the ganglion part of the nerves. Keep me up to date on what you learn. I had trouble e-mailing you.  Where are you looking for a doc?  What Area? (you can e-mail me the answers) Thanks, Cherise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am still trying to find someone to treat me. Like you, I spent most of the last year assuming I was experiencing a form of migraine. Right now I can’t find a neuro to treat me (they freak out when they hear of my meds for my back pain), so I am seeing my pain doc tomorrow to see what ideas he has. What kind of surgery has been suggested to you? What kind of doc was it that suggested it? John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at

http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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Mike, How does this work?  What are the risks? Cherise botox injections have been shown to be very effective for occipital

neuralgia

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botox is being used in a wide variety of neurological and muscluar disorders.. basically botox is injected into a muscle at which time the toxin blocks the impulses of the nerves as it reaches the muscle. It takes a series of injections to be effective and the results are temporary, usually lasting 3-6 months. The risks are the same for any invasive procedure, ie, risk of infection at the injection sites, reaction to sedation (if used), its usually done under consious sedation. i’ve heard it being used to treat everything from cerebral palsy, rsd inversion, peripheral neuropathy to plastic surgery. one thing to note is the actual organism is not injected so there is no risk of botulism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, How does this work?  What are the risks? Cherise botox injections have been shown to be very effective for occipital neuralgia

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John, One doc was an anesthesiologist who specialized in pain management.  He wanted to do Rhizitomy, where they freeze the nerves.  But for a pain doc, he would not help ease the pain in the meantime with pain meds. The other is a neurosurgeon who wants to remove the ganglion part of the nerves. Keep me up to date on what you learn.

So far I have only found that I have no "structural" explanation for the neuralgia, just pain. I am suprised that your docs would leap to such invasive and irreversible procedures so quickly (if I understand the timing of all this correctly) after making the diagnosis; they sound pretty aggressive (maybe too aggressive). My pain doc is having me try electrical stimulation (using a TENS unit) to combat the pain; I am not certain yet how much it helps, it will be trying it out more over the weekend. I don’t know quite what he has in mind to do if it does work for me. I had trouble e-mailing you.  Where are you looking for a doc?  What Area? (you can e-mail me the answers) Thanks, Cherise

– John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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John, One doc was an anesthesiologist who specialized in pain management.  He wanted to do Rhizitomy, where they freeze the nerves.  But for a pain doc, he would not help ease the pain in the meantime with pain meds. The other is a neurosurgeon who wants to remove the ganglion part of the nerves. Keep me up to date on what you learn.

Hello Everyone,   My name is Geno. I do not suffer from occipital neuralgia, but my wife a rear-end collision that forced her head,neck and really her entire body into the back seat of her old car. This whiplashing effect brought on instant headaches immeasurable to the average person. I know, I live with her. I have seen her go through doctors left and right, medications (neurontin, zoloft, xanax, fiornal, loracet, soma, vicadin, midrin, depakote,etc.,etc.—to name a very few, and clinics (headache,physical therapy and now sports medicine). I have to type this for her because after a while her headaches become more severe due to concentration,etc. I went web searching for newsgroups, websites, etc., that could possibly give us answers that doctors appear to miss. My wife recently went through a procedure that would temporarily FREEZE the nerve in the back of her head causing her extreme headaches,unfortunately, the current doctor while probing to find the nerve caused her such pain that the procedure had to be stopped. I told her this was insane and that this procedure wasn’t worth the pain if it was to come back in a few months. The doctors , realizing that meds would not control the pain, suggested nerve blocks (shots to temporarily suppress the nerve actions). One was tried. The pain was back in 24 hours. I’ve read much about this neuralgia, mostly from patients and doctors from Harvard Medical School. My wife has contemplated suicide in the past because the headaches wouldn’t go away. I love my wife and would appreciate any new treatment knowledge of any kind. I read that you are thinking of using a TENS unit. Are you using one now ? Do you know of anyone that is ? I feel that surgery is really the only outlet, but my wife wants to try everything first. We feel she has damage in the C2 area in the back of her head and that doctors have just missed it on MRIs. Please respond. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So far I have only found that I have no "structural" explanation for the neuralgia, just pain. I am suprised that your docs would leap to such invasive and irreversible procedures so quickly (if I understand the timing of all this correctly) after making the diagnosis; they sound pretty aggressive (maybe too aggressive). My pain doc is having me try electrical stimulation (using a TENS unit) to combat the pain; I am not certain yet how much it helps, it will be trying it out more over the weekend. I don’t know quite what he has in mind to do if it does work for me. I had trouble e-mailing you.  Where are you looking for a doc?  What Area? (you can e-mail me the answers) Thanks, Cherise — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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I just recently found out that Occipital Neuralgia was what I had.  I have had nerve blocks that last about five days.  Of course, I am sore from the procedure for three of those five. I am looking for a doc who has suggestions on a more permanent solution. They all go right to surgery, but I would like to know all of my options. What about you?  What have you heard as possible solutions? Cherise

I am still trying to find someone to treat me. Like you, I spent most of the last year assuming I was experiencing a form of migraine. Right now I can’t find a neuro to treat me (they freak out when they hear of my meds for my back pain), so I am seeing my pain doc tomorrow to see what ideas he has. What kind of surgery has been suggested to you? What kind of doc was it that suggested it? John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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I just recently found out that Occipital Neuralgia was what I had.  I have had nerve blocks that last about five days.  Of course, I am sore from the procedure for three of those five. I am looking for a doc who has suggestions on a more permanent solution. They all go right to surgery, but I would like to know all of my options. What about you?  What have you heard as possible solutions? Cherise

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I went to the pain clinic at Cedars-Sinai for over a year.  My doc was very compassionate, but unfortunately treated my migraines for a year, seeing them once a week at $250 per 15 minute visit.  Only for me to find out that I do not have migraines, I have occipital neuralgia.  If they had only tried a nerve block, they could have saved me a bundle and a year of extreme suffering.  So as you can see I am EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED with the care that I received from Cedars. Please let me know if you find any doc that is outstanding in Los Angeles. Cherise

Cherise Sorry to hear it took so long to figure this one out. I am in a similar situation WRT headaches and occipital neuralgia. In my case, I tried a nerve block, but it only helped while the block was still working (about 6 hours) and the pain came right back (w/ added soreness from the injection). How are you treating this condition, now that you know what it is? Do you know of any more "permanent" treatments to relieve this type of problem? Thanks, John — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Visit our humble Home page at http://members.home.net/nojunkmmart2/index.html Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.

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I went to the pain clinic at Cedars-Sinai for over a year.  My doc was very compassionate, but unfortunately treated my migraines for a year, seeing them once a week at $250 per 15 minute visit.  Only for me to find out that I do not have migraines, I have occipital neuralgia.  If they had only tried a nerve block, they could have saved me a bundle and a year of extreme suffering.  So as you can see I am EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED with the care that I received from Cedars. Please let me know if you find any doc that is outstanding in Los Angeles. Cherise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The pain clinic at Cedars-Sinai has a good reputation.

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The pain clinic at Cedars-Sinai has a good reputation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi to all of you and happy new year. I’m new in this group or any news group for that matter. I’ve been taking vicodin for my pain pretty long term and belong to pretty crappy health insurance group.  And never found a doctor that will really deal with my back problem.  I’ve had very sever injuries in my life most of them to my back such as car accidents and very violent robberies that I was a victim of that almost killed me more than once.  Needless to say that I live in los angeles.  I stopped taking the vicodin about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 weeks ago because I was sick of taking meds ( my own choice offcourse)  I did not suffer any great withdrawall symptoms of any kind actually non except for the unbarebale pain offcourse.  I found a pain clinic that was listed on some list on the web that was closest to me and went in.  And the way that I got treated there was just unbelievably discusting.  The doctor there told me that he was sure that I am some kind of drug addict  and acted like I had no pain in his opinion.  While I haven’t been taking meds for a while out of my own choice and never asked him for any.  I think that my only crime was that I was not of Korean origin as was he and all the patients that I saw there.  Which leads me to believe that, that was the reason that he didn’t even want to deal with me.  Pretty depressing.  After about 3 1/2 weeks of not taking any meds and barely being able to get out of bed (mind you I need to work in order to support myself and veryone who is dependent on me).  I went back to my medical group and asked to have more meds until my next MRI.  And they refused.  Saying that I’ve been taking it too often even though I actually took it a lot less than what they told me to.  Now I am in horrible pain and can barely get out of bed.  I have no idea how I will go to work on monday and deal with my business and customers when I am in so much pain. Does anybody have any suggestions what to do I’m pretty much lost for answers at this point. Thanks for any help Tom

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I would go to an emergency room, get the medication necessary to function. Then I would fire my "medical group" and complain to someone in authority with your insurance company. Demand  referral to a pain specialist, and meanwhile find a competent doctor to evaluate my long term needs. If that fails I would recommend filing a formal complaint with any regulatory agencies in california that deal with malpractice etc. It pays to be assertive. Jim Mas rapido! http://members.aol.com/Motomij/yourhere.html

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Hi to all of you and happy new year. I’m new in this group or any news group for that matter. I’ve been taking vicodin for my pain pretty long term and belong to pretty crappy health insurance group.  And never found a doctor that will really deal with my back problem.  I’ve had very sever injuries in my life most of them to my back such as car accidents and very violent robberies that I was a victim of that almost killed me more than once.  Needless to say that I live in los angeles.  I stopped taking the vicodin about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 weeks ago because I was sick of taking meds ( my own choice offcourse)  I did not suffer any great withdrawall symptoms of any kind actually non except for the unbarebale pain offcourse.  I found a pain clinic that was listed on some list on the web that was closest to me and went in.  And the way that I got treated there was just unbelievably discusting.  The doctor there told me that he was sure that I am some kind of drug addict  and acted like I had no pain in his opinion.  While I haven’t been taking meds for a while out of my own choice and never asked him for any.  I think that my only crime was that I was not of Korean origin as was he and all the patients that I saw there.  Which leads me to believe that, that was the reason that he didn’t even want to deal with me.  Pretty depressing.  After about 3 1/2 weeks of not taking any meds and barely being able to get out of bed (mind you I need to work in order to support myself and veryone who is dependent on me).  I went back to my medical group and asked to have more meds until my next MRI.  And they refused.  Saying that I’ve been taking it too often even though I actually took it a lot less than what they told me to.  Now I am in horrible pain and can barely get out of bed.  I have no idea how I will go to work on monday and deal with my business and customers when I am in so much pain. Does anybody have any suggestions what to do I’m pretty much lost for answers at this point. Thanks for any help Tom

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I have never had so many problems witha vehicle till i got this ford.. first it was a thermostat, then i had to replace 2 oxygen sensors, which supposidly go out religously at 40,000 miles on explorers, then cam the water pump.. whats next? couple hundred dollares every couple weeks is kinda pricey, i think i may have to go to a honda.. or i shoulda at least kept my chevy pickup.

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I have never had so many problems witha vehicle till i got this ford.. first it was a thermostat, then i had to replace 2 oxygen sensors, which supposidly go out religously at 40,000 miles on explorers, then cam the water pump.. whats next? couple hundred dollares every couple weeks is kinda pricey, i think i may have to go to a honda.. or i shoulda at least kept my chevy pickup.

What year and engine??? You bought it used?? or New? Why do you thnk you need to go to Honda (Rodeo)? Its not even really a Honda. Total in repairs I have spent less than $200 (not including tires, or clutch) in the entire 5 years Ive owned the vehicle…… BTW, 50k-75k is about right for O2 sensors…. — Paul O’Gorman   Boeing (BCAG) 777 division   93 Explorer Sport-R 4×4 97 Neon SOHC 16v

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I have 91 Explorer that has not been to the shop except for some early recalls (none of which actually required anything to be done except change the radius arm bushings).  Only cost other than gas has been oil changes with filters, antifreeze change out, shocks, front brakes, and a strap to fasten a loose shield on the catalytic converter. Just added a new 97 to the garage.  Hope it is as good as the 91 was.

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hello everyone.  i am posting again for some advice (maybe some encouragement) my love (who has BP) is having second thoughts about us.  she is not sure if it is the way she truly feels or just another episode.  it really has me scared i dont want to loose her.  if any of you have any advice im all ears. thank you

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hello everyone.  i am posting again for some advice (maybe some encouragement) my love (who has BP) is having second thoughts about us.  she is not sure if it is the way she truly feels or just another episode.  it really has me scared i dont want to loose her.  if any of you have any advice im all ears. thank you

I am newly on meds and I have been on the other side of this a lot.  The best thing you can do is let her know you’re there for her and here’s the important part, *BACK* *OFF*.  Let her have her space to decide what’s right for her.  When my man tries to affectionate or make relatiohship talk when I’m in an episode I want to tear his face off and it makes me want to get out of the relationship immediately just to not have to deal with it.  Yeah, I have a long trail of broken hearts because of this.  Your chances are a little better since she knows she is BP and most of my life I did not. Best of luck, Aurora

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hello everyone.  i am posting again for some advice (maybe some encouragement) my love (who has BP) is having second thoughts about us.  she is not sure if it is the way she truly feels or just another episode.  it really has me scared i dont want to loose her.  if any of you have any advice im all ears. thank you

Hi b329a   I’ve lost count of the number of times that second thoughts have occurred in our 15 years.  I’m not going to say that it’s all Bi-Polar or Borderline Personality Disorder (my wifes dual diagnosis) but if you can’t think of anything you’ve done lately, or anything you haven’t done lately (me doing the gardening is a common one) or should that be not doing the gardening – I’ve lost my machete. then wonder upon the just another episode.  I don’t have the fortune of being able to have Nolene’s analysis of the situation. She’s VERY black and white when depressed.  These episodes with us only occur during Nolene’s depressions but at the time they are very serious.  I’ve found I have to step back and let things run their course.  If she starts throwing my things out then I’ll worry.  Fortunately hasn’t got to that yet.   Of course I’m just a great guy <grin  ??gloat? brag? lie?? In good times I’m often asked why I put up with her. I’ll figure out the answer on day (well that;’s what I tell her) Tony

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Thanks Marge, I don’t remember doing this but then when you are putting along you probable don’t know you did this unless someone points it out to you as you did or like you finally figure it out.?Will make sure I don’t do this just in casse this was what caused it.—— Marge Sulla wrote in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The only time that has ever happened with my mail (and it did not affect my news groups) was when I opened an attachment instead of saving it and opening later. That happened when I was using Netscape 3. Now I’ve got MSIE 4.0 and I’ve not had that happen. No one could tell me why. After 3 times of this, I finally got a clue and no longer opened attachments like Word documents while still in the mail system; I saved to a file and opened later. Sorry I can’t be of more help than that. Marge S. I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

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The only time that has ever happened with my mail (and it did not affect my news groups) was when I opened an attachment instead of saving it and opening later. That happened when I was using Netscape 3. Now I’ve got MSIE 4.0 and I’ve not had that happen. No one could tell me why. After 3 times of this, I finally got a clue and no longer opened attachments like Word documents while still in the mail system; I saved to a file and opened later. Sorry I can’t be of more help than that. Marge S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

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I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

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Thanks Marge, I don’t remember doing this but then when you are putting along you probable don’t know you did this unless someone points it out to you as you did or like you finally figure it out.?Will make sure I don’t do this just in casse this was what caused it.—— Marge Sulla wrote in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The only time that has ever happened with my mail (and it did not affect my news groups) was when I opened an attachment instead of saving it and opening later. That happened when I was using Netscape 3. Now I’ve got MSIE 4.0 and I’ve not had that happen. No one could tell me why. After 3 times of this, I finally got a clue and no longer opened attachments like Word documents while still in the mail system; I saved to a file and opened later. Sorry I can’t be of more help than that. Marge S. I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

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The only time that has ever happened with my mail (and it did not affect my news groups) was when I opened an attachment instead of saving it and opening later. That happened when I was using Netscape 3. Now I’ve got MSIE 4.0 and I’ve not had that happen. No one could tell me why. After 3 times of this, I finally got a clue and no longer opened attachments like Word documents while still in the mail system; I saved to a file and opened later. Sorry I can’t be of more help than that. Marge S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

Response:

I have Norton Anti Virus and yet sometime last night or today everything in my sent mail and delete box was gone, gone, gone. The ngs were gone and had to be totally reloaded and now there are very few posts for the Feb 3. I called MSN and they said I would need to talk to technical (so what eles is new for them to say? The last call I made to them cost $13.00. The month before that I made 4 calls and finally told whoever was on the phone I wanted to speak to a supervisor who told me "Yes, we’ve had problems for a number of days and it all finally crashed." so you can understand why I don’t want to call them back anymore. There was no power outage, the computer was off, no one eles used the computer, nothing new was added or downloaded  so can someone tell me why this happened?

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible. If you know of any other news groups where I could gather information I would appreciate that as well. thank you.

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible.

I have a 1994 Eagle Vision TSi. Fully loaded. Love the car, however…  - two a/c evaporator replacements.  - one a/c condensor replacement.  - one a/c compressor replacement.  - transmission replaced after complaint of harsh/bumpy shifting. Numerous other "little" problems with the first transmission like rough torque converter lock-up, transfer chain rattle and so forth. Replacement tranny has been fine.  - power antenna replaced (wouldn’t retract fully).  - front brake rotors replaced at about 18,000km because warped. Still fine now at 95,000 km.  - fuel rail replaced (TSB) because of rattle sound.  - front c/v (axle) joints replaced because of accellerate/decellerate clunk.  - tranny cooler lines replaced twice: first time small drip, second time it exploded and pissed tranny fluid all over the engine compartment. All of this has been covered by my Gold Plan extended warranty. Hope this helps…     Mike Knox – Reply to: mknox "at" ican "dot" net                      

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible. If you know of any other news groups where I could gather information I would appreciate that as well. thank you.

If you haven’t done it yet, go to: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/ and click on CONSUMER COMPLAINTS. — James A. Jones N5LQM Team OS/2 Baton Rouge, LA

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible. If you know of any other news groups where I could gather information I would appreciate that as well. thank you.

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible.

I have a 1994 Eagle Vision TSi. Fully loaded. Love the car, however…  - two a/c evaporator replacements.  - one a/c condensor replacement.  - one a/c compressor replacement.  - transmission replaced after complaint of harsh/bumpy shifting. Numerous other "little" problems with the first transmission like rough torque converter lock-up, transfer chain rattle and so forth. Replacement tranny has been fine.  - power antenna replaced (wouldn’t retract fully).  - front brake rotors replaced at about 18,000km because warped. Still fine now at 95,000 km.  - fuel rail replaced (TSB) because of rattle sound.  - front c/v (axle) joints replaced because of accellerate/decellerate clunk.  - tranny cooler lines replaced twice: first time small drip, second time it exploded and pissed tranny fluid all over the engine compartment. All of this has been covered by my Gold Plan extended warranty. Hope this helps…     Mike Knox – Reply to: mknox "at" ican "dot" net                      

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I am looking for people who have the following: 94 Vision 93 Dodge Dakota I am trying to document problems with those vehicles. Please try to be as accurate as possible. If you know of any other news groups where I could gather information I would appreciate that as well. thank you.

If you haven’t done it yet, go to: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/ and click on CONSUMER COMPLAINTS. — James A. Jones N5LQM Team OS/2 Baton Rouge, LA

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Question:

WebfootVA schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, though you said you take it at night.  Do you eat dinner late or do you take it with a snack?  If I started to eat my dinner at 9pm I would not only have bad indigestion, I’d probably weigh about 10 pounds more than I do now! Hi Iris, I do both.  I used to eat late dinners when I worked until 9pm so I could eat with my husband in the past.  For me, this was never a big deal.  I either eat a very light dinner at 5pm with my kids and a big snack later on, or I just have a late dinner, but I always eat before the meds. I also work out 5-6 times a week in the mornings at the gym as I’ve tended to gain weight with any of the meds in the past and I didn’t want to go that route again.  It also helps a lot with the everyday stress and gives me exposure to the rapid heart rate….rapid breathing symptoms, which I’m hoping will eventually help me prevent relapse once this goes into remission again. take care, Lene Well, I’ll probably have to take it in the morning then, or at least with my dinner around 7pm.  If I eat much later, I feel queasy when I go to bed. I need to start working out again.  I don’t have a weight problem but I am noticing a growing flab problem!  Exercise was my salvation when I had PA’s 10 years ago, but now I’ve developed a bit of a phobia–also, I suspect tied to the rapid heart rate, sweating, etc. BTW, the doc wants me to start out on 25 mg for a week then increase to 50mg where I’ll stay if the drug is successful.  Is 25 mg a low enough dose to start? Should I ask him for a lower dose?  I only weigh about 112, although I have a friend who doesn’t even tip the scales at 100 lbs and she started at 50 mg with no problem. Ever more questions. Iris —

  Iris, I feel your doctor knows about your fear of meds (which I recognize completely) and therefore starts your medication on a very low dose indeed. You should have no problems taking this at any time of the day. And: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Try it and do it asap because you’ve been torturing yourself for too long now. Just do it! You’ll survive. Just as I did, so many times now (and still fraking out over every new med but having learnt to take it. If I can do it, you certainly can! I wish you knew me better to discover how true this is… Philip Peters

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WebfootVA schreef: BTW, though you said you take it at night.  Do you eat dinner late or do you take it with a snack?  If I started to eat my dinner at 9pm I would not only have bad indigestion, I’d probably weigh about 10 pounds more than I do now! Hi Iris, I do both.  I used to eat late dinners when I worked until 9pm so I could eat with my husband in the past.  For me, this was never a big deal.  I either eat a very light dinner at 5pm with my kids and a big snack later on, or I just have a late dinner, but I always eat before the meds. I also work out 5-6 times a week in the mornings at the gym as I’ve tended to gain weight with any of the meds in the past and I didn’t want to go that route again.  It also helps a lot with the everyday stress and gives me exposure to the rapid heart rate….rapid breathing symptoms, which I’m hoping will eventually help me prevent relapse once this goes into remission again. take care, Lene Well, I’ll probably have to take it in the morning then, or at least with my dinner around 7pm.  If I eat much later, I feel queasy when I go to bed. I need to start working out again.  I don’t have a weight problem but I am noticing a growing flab problem!  Exercise was my salvation when I had PA’s 10 years ago, but now I’ve developed a bit of a phobia–also, I suspect tied to the rapid heart rate, sweating, etc. BTW, the doc wants me to start out on 25 mg for a week then increase to 50mg where I’ll stay if the drug is successful.  Is 25 mg a low enough dose to start? Should I ask him for a lower dose?  I only weigh about 112, although I have a friend who doesn’t even tip the scales at 100 lbs and she started at 50 mg with no problem. Ever more questions. Iris —   Iris, I feel your doctor knows about your fear of meds (which I recognize completely) and therefore starts your medication on a very low dose indeed. You should have no problems taking this at any time of the day. And: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Try it and do it asap because you’ve been torturing yourself for too long now. Just do it! You’ll survive. Just as I did, so many times now (and still fraking out over every new med but having learnt to take it. If I can do it, you certainly can! I wish you knew me better to discover how true this is… Philip Peters

Philip: What a nice reply!  I’m going to print it out and tape it to the mirror, ’cause I’ve decided I’m going to start tonight! Iris (hoping to be successful…) —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, though you said you take it at night.  Do you eat dinner late or do you take it with a snack?  If I started to eat my dinner at 9pm I would not only have bad indigestion, I’d probably weigh about 10 pounds more than I do now! Hi Iris, I do both.  I used to eat late dinners when I worked until 9pm so I could eat with my husband in the past.  For me, this was never a big deal.  I either eat a very light dinner at 5pm with my kids and a big snack later on, or I just have a late dinner, but I always eat before the meds. I also work out 5-6 times a week in the mornings at the gym as I’ve tended to gain weight with any of the meds in the past and I didn’t want to go that route again.  It also helps a lot with the everyday stress and gives me exposure to the rapid heart rate….rapid breathing symptoms, which I’m hoping will eventually help me prevent relapse once this goes into remission again. take care, Lene

Well, I’ll probably have to take it in the morning then, or at least with my dinner around 7pm.  If I eat much later, I feel queasy when I go to bed. I need to start working out again.  I don’t have a weight problem but I am noticing a growing flab problem!  Exercise was my salvation when I had PA’s 10 years ago, but now I’ve developed a bit of a phobia–also, I suspect tied to the rapid heart rate, sweating, etc. BTW, the doc wants me to start out on 25 mg for a week then increase to 50mg where I’ll stay if the drug is successful.  Is 25 mg a low enough dose to start? Should I ask him for a lower dose?  I only weigh about 112, although I have a friend who doesn’t even tip the scales at 100 lbs and she started at 50 mg with no problem. Ever more questions. Iris —

Response:

BTW, though you said you take it at night.  Do you eat dinner late or do you take it with a snack?  If I started to eat my dinner at 9pm I would not only have bad indigestion, I’d probably weigh about 10 pounds more than I do now! Hi Iris,

I do both.  I used to eat late dinners when I worked until 9pm so I could eat with my husband in the past.  For me, this was never a big deal.  I either eat a very light dinner at 5pm with my kids and a big snack later on, or I just have a late dinner, but I always eat before the meds. I also work out 5-6 times a week in the mornings at the gym as I’ve tended to gain weight with any of the meds in the past and I didn’t want to go that route again.  It also helps a lot with the everyday stress and gives me exposure to the rapid heart rate….rapid breathing symptoms, which I’m hoping will eventually help me prevent relapse once this goes into remission again. take care, Lene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Okay, after taking Zoloft for the first time last night, I felt so wired up today. How long are the side effects going to take? Why do some people have more side effects at first than others? PS make sure you eat with it.  I noticed a BIG difference in severity of side effects depending on whether I had a full stomache or not.

Good advice Lene.  I’m still working on starting my Zoloft (sigh…) and the reason I was leaning toward taking it at breakfast was to lessen the side effect possibility.  I’ve had this reaction with several other drugs. If I take them with food (if it’s an option), I always tolerate them better.  I’m not a scientist, but I think food slows the absorbtion rate, so your body can better adjust. BTW, though you said you take it at night.  Do you eat dinner late or do you take it with a snack?  If I started to eat my dinner at 9pm I would not only have bad indigestion, I’d probably weigh about 10 pounds more than I do now! Iris —

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Okay, after taking Zoloft for the first time last night, I felt so wired up today. How long are the side effects going to take?

<snipped for space I’m not a doctor but I do believe that, while there is a possibility that you are experiencing a reaction to Zoloft, it’s an infinitessimal one. Most likely you have hyped yourself up over it with anticipation. ISTM a little too early for any reaction at all, good or bad… Sad to say, we anxiety types do this all too easily — Gary Cooper

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Okay, after taking Zoloft for the first time last night, I felt so wired up today. How long are the side effects going to take? Why do some people have more side effects at first than others?

Side effects with zoloft at first are extremely common.  I’ve been on it for 10 weeks, My side effects lasted about four weeks.  However, my husband who is also on zoloft for chronic pain management had few side effects and none of the ones that I did.    I found that I had to work a bit with the time I took it, to manage the side effects better at first. Some people are just more sensitive to meds.  Myself included.  I usually have side effects to everything.  Try and keep in mind that that the side effects are a temporary situation and well worth getting through in order to give it a chance and see if this is the answer for you. PS make sure you eat with it.  I noticed a BIG difference in severity of side effects depending on whether I had a full stomache or not. take care Lene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Okay, after taking Zoloft for the first time last night, I felt so wired up today. How long are the side effects going to take? Why do some people have more side effects at first than others? Is it kind of a Riddlin effect.  Kids who take it and don’t need it tend to react to it differently and get hyped up.  and whereas kids who need the medication the most feel the effect immediately.    mmm.  in that case  is it true that if you’re feeling overanxious when initially using Zoloft   that you’re closer to healthy than you are sick?    just a hopeful thought

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Question:

Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long time? Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

Can you remember the last time you felt good?  Does it seem like a long time?  For some people a week is a long time.  For others of us it takes years before we admit there’s a problem. — Cindy Brown Cross-stitcher, quilter, designer, and cat-lover "If you know what you want, then you go and you find it, and you get it…. When the end is right, it justifies the beans!"            _Into the Woods_ by Stephen Sondheim

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Over the  past several weeks, I’ve been reading the posts on depression.  I decided this evening that it’s time to speak up. I am a mental health professional, a therapist.  Although my primary focus is children and families, I also run our clinic’s Medication Clinic, where I assist the psychiatrist who comes once each week.  Personally, I have been taking Effexor for four years due to Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent, without Psychotic Features.  Now that I’ve stated my credentials, let me make a few clarifications. 1.  The predominant theory, and most widely accepted, of depression is that it is caused by a combination of a neurochemical imbalance and poor coping skills.  Thus a person may have an imbalance  but good coping skills or not much conflict or adversity, and only experience more frequent down days than an otherwise normal person.  If that person were to suddenly have a major crisis, he or she would be more likely to suffer a depressive episode. 2.  "Clinical" and "chronic" refer to the level and length of the depression. Clinical depression is the type that requires counseling and usually medication.  Situational depression results for something going on in the person’s life and usually can be treated with counseling alone.  Chronic depression means it has been going on for a long time, usually most of the person’s life.  Dysthymia  is a mild depression  every  day for at least two years.  Depression can also be related to medical conditions and substance abuse.  Bipolar Disorder, or manic-depression,  is a chemical imbalance which causes the person to have severe mood swings.  It is usually treated with lithium but also responds to some of the drugs that are used to treat seizure disorders.  Bipolar Disorder is *not* treated with anti-anxiety drugs. 3.  Depression doesn’t always present as the stereotypical tearfulness, hopelessness, and helplessness.  The person can be easily agitated and prone to angry outbursts.  This is especially true in children.  The person can be easily distracted and have very poor concentration.  Frequently children are misdiagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) when they are really depression. Children who have to take really  high doses of Ritalin or Cylert may be depressed not hyperactive. 4.  Several types of drugs are used to treat depression, from the older tricyclics and MAO inhibitors to the newer SRI inhibitors (Prozac, Effexor, Paxil).  A new generation of drugs is now on the market that works differently from all the others.  These different types of drugs are necessary because each person’s depression is different, caused by a different set of factors. Besides chemotherapy and counseling, increased activity is essential.  That’s why doing needlework can help. There are several sites on the web for information about depression.  However, if you or a loved one  is suffering from a mood disorder,  you need to seek counseling.  It doesn’t go away by itself.  You have to work at it.  And it may be some of the hardest work you’ve ever done, but it’s well worth the effort to have yourself back. Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny

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: Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) : Jenny : : : Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about : when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long : time?   Well let’s see….. an abusive childhood resulted in at least 12 years of depression-like syptoms before I was diagnosed upon entering therapy. And the diagnosis was in the Autumn of 1992. Just one example….  ;) Sherri : Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL : *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I : only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that : differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

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Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny

Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long time?   Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

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(NikoKat) writes: The person can be easily agitated and prone to

angry outbursts.  This is especially true in children

It is even more especially true in men…I bought a book about Men’s Depression, "I Don’t Want to Talk About It" and many symptoms of depression in men show up so differently…it even eluded that it can lead to abuse of women and children. Denise in Akron, Ohio X/USA/H2/X13/Y9/1D/XXX/0=/:-D~/L/G-/Wo/D/M/B/b/R+/S+/K-/E/Anthony Hopkins/Robert Naseef/cold pumpkin pie with whipped cream sprinkled with a sugar/cinnamon mix

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