Question:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue

Hi Sue, People with anxiety disorders should start Paxil at 5mgs, increasing the dose in 5mg increments every week or so. Paxil should kick in around 6 to 8 weeks. Paxil is notorious for sexual dysfunction in men ( I will enlcose a link for a website that has alot of info on med induced sexual dysfunction. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/medsdysfunction/index.htm It is always advisable to not drink while taking AD`s. You should always talk to your doctor about this, and do things in moderation. Any side-effect that is causing significant distress should be discussed with your doctor. Take care Jackie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Hi Sue, People with anxiety disorders should start Paxil at 5mgs, increasing the dose in 5mg increments every week or so. Paxil should kick in around 6 to 8 weeks. Paxil is notorious for sexual dysfunction in men ( I will enlcose a link for a website that has alot of info on med induced sexual dysfunction. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/medsdysfunction/index.htm It is always advisable to not drink while taking AD`s. You should always talk to your doctor about this, and do things in moderation. Any side-effect that is causing significant distress should be discussed with your doctor. Take care Jackie

Thank you very much Jackie. Its apreciated. Sue:-) Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

Sigh…much too high. Start at 5 mg and stay there for a week and then raise the dose in weekly increments of 5 mg or whatever is comfortable. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It very often causes sexual dysfunction in men and in women. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

Every doctor will say it’s a nono but IMO very moderate drinking won;t hurt. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

What side effects are happening? Sue

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Sue, What is a good starting dose for paxil.

About 1/4 the smallest dose tablet. In this case 5mg. Pill cutters available at pharmacies will make cutting easier and less bloody. NOTE1: Okay this with the prescribing doctor first. There may be a good reason why this isn’t okay in some situations, but he/she would need to come up with one.   NOTE2: this doesn’t apply to Paxil, but some antidepressants are available in prolonged release formulations (Effexor XR etc). These should NOT be cut. doc said start at 20.

Doctor needs to be educated about the different needs of anxiety patients compared to those with depression. Antidepressants almost always cause an initial increase in anxiety for purely physical reasons. Most of this can be reduced, though, unfortunately, not completely avoided by starting on small doses and ramping up in similar small doses at 7-10 day intervals. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

Despite the claims of some manufacturers, all antidepressants may. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

1)  The biggest problem with alcohol + ADs is that the effect can be unpredictable. Some days you can drink a fair amount of alcohol without greater than usual effect, other days just a small drink will turn your legs to rubber. Alcohol should be treated with caution and no driving etc afterwards. 2) Alcohol can, often does, make anxiety disorders worse. Having 1 or 2 drinks is usually not a problem, indeed may be beneficial, but if it gets to 3-4 then 5-6 etc, you can quickly get into serious trouble because alcohol and anxiety start to feed off each other into a rapid downward spiral. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

If started at a low dose with small increases, as above, there shouldn’t be any major problems. SSRI meds are very safe, even in huge overdose quantities. Anything that does cause concern should be referred to the prescribing doctor, if only for the re-assurance value. I won’t list all the possible side effects because I can guarantee that half the folk that read it will instantly start experiencing all of them. However, full information about Paxil and other ADs can be found at www.mentalhealth.com  - click the ‘medications’ button and then scroll down the list that appears in the l/h frame. Sue

Good  luck Ian

Response:

Sue, They started me at 20, its now up to 30.  Doc told me not to drink while on the medication, said it’s not a good idea!  Don’t know about the sexual side effects in men, but, with me…well, don’t know if it’s the drug or the problems with my depression and/or anxiety.  Maybe should call doctor if there’s any signs of headaches, fever, dizziness, etc.! Kerri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

my experience has been that a lower starting dose has fewer side effects.  I can’t drink alcohol with it, either.  (one beer, okay, but it hits me like a brick wall!) It can lessen sex drive, but I didn’t have that problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

I think it depends on the disorder. I have anxiety mostly but depression also. When I tried paxil, we started at 5mg for a week, then 10 then 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It did for me, but it won’t effect everyone the same way so it may not affect you that way. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

Please don’t. It’ll make everything better if you don’t. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

I had weight loss, extreme tiredness, sexual dysfunction, involuntary muscle movements/tremors, and it made the anxiety actually worse. It all got significantly worse as soon as we went up to 20mg. That was enough for me and doc to try something else, since I don’t normally have such strong reactions to SSRI’s (I took prozac some years ago and had much milder side-effects). OTOH, a friend of mine takes paxil and had hardly any side effects and it seems to be helping him quite a bit. So, as my doc says, it’s like trying on shoes – try a med untilyou find one that "fits". IMO, it’s ok to talk to the doc about any side effects, particularly if they’re strong or really interfering with your life. We’ve recently switched me to zoloft and, although it’s still pretty early, I am not having side effects to that degree. So I’m in the same boat as you, trying different meds to find the right one…. LS Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy. Paxil should be started at 5mgs then slowly move up.  20mgs for depression and

30-60mgs for panic.  Also for you men.  paxil is also prescribed for premature ejaculation and TRUST me it works.  Paxil will delay your ejaculation and it wont be near as powerfull. donny Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

I started at 20mg and quickly rose to 60mg with no problem.  Some people seem to need smaller doses and slower increases as they complain about various annoying side effects when starting Paxil. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It sure does.  One of Paxil’s off label uses is for the treatment of premature ejaculation and let me tell you this drug does a fantastic job of delaying orgasm.  At 60mg I was totally unable to orgasm even after hours of trying and would just have to give up due to exhaustion and boredom. Before you buy.

Response:

I’d ask your doctor for 20 mg "plain" Paxil tablets, and start with 10 mgs every day with dinner, after a couple weeks, raise the dose to the full 20 mg tablet.  Paxil CR is nothing more than a patent ploy used by that drug manufacturer to keep making a brand name product, because their patent ran out on Paxil – subsequently there are generic brands of plain Paxil available.   I’m hearing rumblings amonst paxil patients that some of the generics are lesser than…. You may want to try brand name Paxil.  I have no use for Paxil CR personally, as you can probably tell by my "thoughts", which you asked for. Gary   I just started Paxil CR for panic disorder. 12.5 and increasing weekly up to 37.5 hopefully.  Over the last 3 days I’ve noticed more sedation than the other SSRI’s I’ve taken.  So, I’m trying to decide if I should take it at night or daytime.  Any thoughts and how has it worked for anyone?   Thanks   Scott

Response:

I’ve been on Paxil CR since 2003. I started at the 12.5 dosage and i’ve been at 37.5 for over a year now. It’s helped me a great deal and it’s gotten my panic disorder under control. I’m going to be coming down off of it this year actually. You know alot of people always think they need to be at the highest dosage possible. I think that you should not fall into that trap. See how the 12.5 works for you if you are okay then maybe you don’t need to increase. I went up gradually going from the 12.5 for a few months, to the 25 for a few months, and the 37.5 for over a year, and that’s where i’ve been at and it’s worked great for me. It takes time to kick in though it took about four weeks or so for it to really do the trick for me. Some of the side effects of waiting for it to kick in are dry mouth and lack of libido. While taking Paxil you may also experience weight gain. So hang in there. I’ll let you know however that Paxil does not work for everyone. It worked for me though and i’m happy about that.

Response:

I just started Paxil CR for panic disorder. 12.5 and increasing weekly up to 37.5 hopefully.  Over the last 3 days I’ve noticed more sedation than the other SSRI’s I’ve taken.  So, I’m trying to decide if I should take it at night or daytime.  Any thoughts and how has it worked for anyone? Thanks Scott

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I switched about 16 months ago from Paxil to Celexa. It was a pretty seamless transition. Celexa has proven very effective for my panic and anxiety (like Paxil), without the sleepiness. I gained lots of weight on Paxil, but have stabilized on Celexa. And I stopped falling asleep at my desk at work every afternoon, which was happening on Paxil! I also have felt for some time that the Celexa actually gave me a better lift for my depression than the Paxil did, especially over the long haul. (I had to increase my Paxil dose after about 6 months, as it was beginning to "poop out" for the depression; I have not had to do this with Celexa.) Hello Anne How did you switch from paxil to celexa. Weaning of paxil,or just a change overnight ? Just wondering,cause I do feel the sedating effect from paxil. Would be glad with some information about the transition Love from Anna I can

Question:

Have you tried effexor instead of prozac, although it’s a prescription drug? According to rxlist.com… "Preclinical studies have shown that venlafaxine [effexor] and its active metabolite, O-desmethylvenlafaxine (ODV), are potent inhibitors of neuronal serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake and weak inhibitors of dopamine reuptake"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

Thanks AMM and CyberMistress. Yes I tried Effexor – and may try it again – but it knocked me out too much for me to know what it was doing to my mood. I’ll try the 100mg of B6 and other B vitamins. Does anyone find that Omega-3 oil really helps with their mood?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John as you know I been suffering depression pretty bad since I stopped the Paxil and none of the AD’s I tried in the year and 4 months since did good things upon trying.. so I been going without. Well, I been trying the vitamin, minerals fish oils  with mixed success…some alleviation of PMS symptoms but nothing for depression.. The thing is not enough alleviation of PMS  so I was whining to a friend who told me his wife used 100mg of B6  to counteract PMS… What did I have to lose… I increased it to 100mg and I shown a positive response…out of the fog I been in the entire time since I stopped the Paxil…greyness gone…  less irritable,  though more BLACK and WHITE thinking cause I am more sure of myself. Anyway, if the Prozac works fairly well, why not supplement with the OMEGA 3 and b complex vitamins…see if they help… I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

 I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  ARE there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

Question:

Courageous,the point  I  am trying to make is that "ecstasy" is sometimes not really ecstasy at all.There are so many people making the stuff,and using so many different chemicals to make their version of it,that oftentimes the people using it have absolutely no idea what they are ingesting.And to mix any unknown chemical with Viagra(or any other drug for that matter)in an attempt to experience an ultimate sexual high,is in my opinion extremely risky.

Response:

seadog,STOP taking ecstasy.There are so many different people making the stuff that you never know exactly what might be in it.Any drug that keeps you up for hours on end partying cant be doing you a damn bit of good.And do you really enjoy that day after feeling?You know,the one where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

Response:

where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

I don’t have any reason to believe that the *mixture* is harmful, but the reason that researchers discarded MDMA as a potential antidepressant was because it was shown in research to cause negative long-term serotonin-receptor downregulation (and eradication) in rats. The thought was that the substance might with chronic use actually CAUSE (irreversible) clinical depression. I suspect that it’s no coincidence at all that MDMA abusers end up on SSRI medication for (what probably is) the rest of their life whenupon they finally decided that there life is in ruins. Keep in mind that I’m an anti-prohibitionist. If people want to fry out their brains, it should be there right. Just recall an old truism: "What goes up, must come down". C//

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence.

Thanks for your narrow-minded input. I’m sure you bring confort to the geniuses that brought us The War on Drugs. Al

Response:

Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

Might be a value judgement but this is a support forum for people with a medical condition who are trying to alleviate a problem, not create one. If you want to experiment with non-prescription drugs, that is entirely your choice, and I for one wouldn’t stop you. But I really think you are missing the point of this forum.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you?

DESERVE?????   My, my, my.  The words "glass house" come to mind.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

I felt a little bit sad that the replies to this post so far have, for the most part, been somewhat judgemental. After all, we may have a guy (probably quite young) who may have an underlying problem that is not clear from this posting. If this is the case, this post is not inappropriate here. I certainly don’t know the specific answers to this question but I would like to make a few comments that might promote open-minded discussion. I believe that, whatever your personal view of the use of no-prescription drug use, we have to accept it as "normal" in our modern society. I also think that, " a little pinch of what yer like does yer good", even though the substance is intrinsically bad for you. After all, I bet there are a good few guys on here who like a couple of beers, or a whiskey, or maybe a cigar. Whatever you do, I believe you should do it sensibly and in moderation. Ecstasy is certainly questionable but there is a a lot of evidence that can demonstrate that cannabis (separated from tobacco) is a less harmful than alcohol. Getting back to the ED / impotency point. Cut out all drug use for a while. All drugs that is, alcohol in any form, tobacco, "E", grass, tea, and coffee. Tobacco is the worst thing that you can do for your health (I guess that if you smoke cannabis this is mixed with tobacco) When you get yourself sorted out try a different substrate, maybe mint, or try one of those vaporiser things. Give it a few of weeks or so Mr seadog and see how it goes. Post in again and tell us how you get on. If you still have a problem, some of the experienced guys in here might be able to help. And, get an appointment with your doctor. Good luck, VMS

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence. Ben Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

For every winner there are dozens of loosers Odds are you’re one of them.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

It is my understanding that the THC in marijuana mimics estrogen so the regular heavy smokers of the drug sometimes develop gyno. If this is the case I would think that except for getting you over some inhibitions, marijuana would contribute to rather than help ED. With ecstacy, it works by causing a massive dumping of seratonin in the brain. If the sort of mild manic feeling I used to have when I was taking prozac is any indication of how a slight increase in seratonin due to a change in it’s reuptake causes, I shutter to think what it would feel like if you took something that caused a massive dumping of it. I would think that the increased seratonin levels would make you escatic while they lasted though totally unable to have an orgasm. I would think that the seratonin depleted state your brain would be in when you came down would be extremely unpleasant. I don’t know what the long term effects of either drug might be. I’ve experienced having my brain chemistry messed up and my hormones messed up. How ever ‘great’ the high from these drugs is, I don’t think it could possibly be worth messing up one’s chemistry. I’m just real happy that I’ve finally gotten my chemistry unmessed up. So, call me an old fuddy duddy if you want but I’d stay away from both those drugs. mike71646 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

Question:

The, North, &, South, Bipolar, Connection…Meet, me, in, the, middle! You can still get the medical care you need without insurance, and you don’t have to settle for care that doesn’t meet your needs, but you will have to work harder to find it and see that you get it.

God, I hope you’re right. You can use this period while you still have insurance to start making solid plans.

I’m trying. I’ve never been very good at follow-through though :/ The worry is a motivator, but once you start to see how you <will survive it becomes lessor. I know what it is like to have too many questions and not enough answers.

Don’t we all. :/ Thanks for the support.

Response:

I’m sorry I was so hard on you. I did not realize how much you have & are suffering or how frightened you are.

It’s ok, I understand those knee-jerk reactions; do it all the time myself ; I was insensitive myself in my response. Maybe you pushed one of my buttons. You see I have two children, both of whom are now adult & both of whom are healthy.

I’m glad your kids are healthy. I’m not going to have any myself, not only because I don’t want to take the chance of passing this on, but also because I don’t think I could take care of them. I can barely take care of myself. Heck, most of the time I go hungry because shopping is such a horrible experience. If you could get to a major teaching hospital in your area and see someone in the "Mood Disorders Clinic" (Department of Psychiatry), I am confident you would be able to find relief for most of your symptoms.

This is a very small city, there’s only one hospital. I’d have to go to CMH. It is possible that a period of hospitalization would be advisable to allow the pdocs & staff to more quickly find the right combination of meds for *you*.

Um. No. Not only does the mere thought of the hospital scare the crap outa me, but they allow smoking in there (at least in the other place I was in they did) and I am extremely hypersensitive to second hand smoke. Being trapped in there and having to breathe that shit and choking is my worst nightmare. It happened to me the last time and the doctors didn’t care. The other staff didn’t care either. They could have at least kept the exhaust fans on, but the other patients complained that the little bit of wind they generated made them cold. It didn’t even matter that I was choking. From your description of your recent symptoms of tactile and auditory hallucinations, perhaps one of the new "atypical" APs, like Zyprexa, would help. It is also quite useful in combating dysphoric mania, in my experience, which is something you might just be experiencing. Ask your pdoc about it in the context of a comprehensive plan…

I don’t actually have a psychiatrist; just a general practice doctor. I’ve been scared to go to any psychiatrists for at least a decade now … except the interview I just had which was something I had to do, but would rather not discuss. His purpose was just to interview me, he’s not going to be a doctor I will be seeing regularly or who will be prescribing me any medicines. Like I said, I’d have to go to CMH. I might have too much fear to do that, I dunno yet. As for trying other drugs, at this point I’m willing to try just about anything to get this pain out of me.

Response:

I have to agree with Thumper as to the Wellbutrin or any AD. If you are truly bipolar, you pretty well must take a mood stabilizer and this is especially true if you are taking an AD.

I honestly didn’t know this until a couple days ago. I always thought it was the drug causing the problem, but there’s no doubt that I have had very clear-cut episodes of mania that were not drug induced. Those were more in the past, though. The problem the last few years seems to be an ongoing mixed episode that crashes into all out depression every few months. I’m not even experiencing any periods of relative stability; except during the time I was taking dexedrine, but there were (eventually) problems associated with that too. I dunno if there is a drug or combo of drugs out there that will help. Let’s face it, some people just can’t be helped, I’m really starting to believe that I am one of those people. :<

Response:

permanently in the ether: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I feel that, overall, I am doing worse now than in the past. I have: 1. Constant headaches. 2. Constant fatigue. 3. Difficulty concentrating. 4. NO energy. 5. Constant feelings that suicide is only solution (but unable to take that way out because of effect on family). 6. Joint pain in major joints (hips and shoulders). 7. Stomach pain. 8. Cholesterol and Liver Enzyme levels are high. 9. Skin itches all the time (although I have no rash). 10. I have pains in my left chest. 11. Low thyroid and testosterone hormones. 12. I stop breathing at night unless I use a CPAP machine. 13. If I don

Question:

Struggling to survive <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote in message

news:7__U3.48644$23.1836784@typ11.nn.bcandid.com… | it’s been really hard these 15 years pretending | everything is ok when my kids couldn’t have things other kids had while my | ex lived a lavish lifestyle.  So there’s been many times when she | disappointed the kids not even sending a birthday card that I wished I had | done an O. J. on her the night I watched through the window her screwing my | "friend" | | do you think I’m bitter?  Lol | ok ladies let the flames begin ) No flames from me.  I think you have done a great job… #1. for letting her live and #2. for raising your children in a stable home.  I applaud you for that. Bitter? You?  nah!  :o)  LOL Tee

Response:

In article <7__U3.48644$23.1836…@typ11.nn.bcandid.com

, "Struggling to

survive" <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote:

|  I on the other hand I’m a guy and we don’t get things like child custody | and child support much less alimony. Well, I’m a guy too… With my lawyer on a carefully managed leash, I counter sued for divorce. As I could substanciate my claims much better than she could, my case made it. When this became evident, suddenly mediation became an option…  From her ‘take the kids, and everything’ start, we separated on joint custody, with the kids have a choice, if we lived far appart; and the person without the kids having to provide (minor) financial support for the kids. When I moved from Manitoba to BC, all three of my kids chose to come with me. I raised them, essentially by myself, for the next 6 years (until they were ready to be on their own). YMMV — Take care James (#11)

Response:

On 06 Nov 1999 17:04:08 GMT, kamatth…@aol.com (Kathi Matthews) wrote:

And he said this with a straight face? Kathi

Not only said it, but had his lawyer write it down.  At that time in Pennsylvania, there was no "no fault" divorce.  Somebody had to be to blame, and it turned out to be me. Being a sort of mild-mannered lady, hayfever was about the worst of the sins he could come up with. Kate

Response:

Hello ’struggling to survive’.  You won’t be getting any flames from me. It’s good to hear your story so the men with MS going through a divorce can see what might be coming at them down the road.  You are one strong person! Lorraine Reed. Struggling to survive <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote in message

news:7__U3.48644$23.1836784@typ11.nn.bcandid.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So there’s been many times when she disappointed the kids not even sending a birthday card that I wished I had done an O. J. on her the night I watched through the window her screwing

my

"friend" do you think I’m bitter?  Lol ok ladies let the flames begin )

Response:

Paul, It is very likely that the extreme fatigue and the unusual need for sleep is related to stress. You have been under terrible stress for several months now, with no letup. The lawyer seems like a jerk, but you do have to look after your own interests. Gaylan Paul Jones <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com

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news:38236527.82029857@btinternet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Went to my GP this morning to get a repeat perscription for the sertraline (Zoloft) and talked about the fatigue and MS etc. He reckons I might have a thyroid problem to boot I hope not or do I? I guess I could just take some thyroxin and all this godamn tiredness would go away. That does it, I’m going to get out my spirit level and check my bed – I suspect that it must be perfectly horizontal Still three autoimmune diseases does seem a bit bloody rotten luck especially since I’m a bloke and they are rarer for us than for gals. 15 months ago I thought I was a perfect specimen of health. Oh well, it could be worse – I know some of you have more than this and worse ones as well. Blessings 1 – Curses 999. The nurse took 15 million little phials of blood and I’m a complete baby. Had a ‘flu jab as well. Bet I get a relapse from that – things just aren’t smiling at me right now. Next I went to my lawyer. No wonder so many people wind up in bitter divorce battles. The guy was so adversarial. He said (with relish) that this case was no ordinary divorce and he could stack up the MS as a good weapon and was just itching to tear up the pre-nuptual <sp? that muggins signed a couple of days before the knot was tied. He said it had no meaning in an English court and we could start to tear into all my wife’s assets in Spain. It made me quite sick. I’m a daft bugger but I refuse to descend to this level. I knew what I was signing, so I shall honour it. I see him getting me

Question:

Perhaps we could start with defining self-worth, and considering evolutionary roots leading to it, or how it is seen (or not seen) in lower animals. Below is a suggestion of the meaning of "self worth."  There are needs for certain aspects of belonginness.  Perhaps self-worth would include an assessment of the probability of their being met.  Perhaps this would also include an assessment of one’s "deservingness" of their being met, or in other words, an absence of shame or guilt. We might also consider that there may be brain based templates for such things as shame or guilt, such that if they are stimulated, or their conditions met, an unpleasant feeling is generated, which has the effect of modifying behavior. (more)

 :–  :                            Rational Negativism:  :               A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder  :  :Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for  :   love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,  :   purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,  :   suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e.,  :to  :   synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the  :   question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism  :   expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the  :survivalistically  :   bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’  : If we view nature films of animals which live in groups, we find the existence of a heirarchy in many of them.  Often that heirarchy is constantly shifting, and is frequently re-ordered.  Sometimes, an individual is on the low end so often, he becomes a permanently low-status member.  He is fearful, and doesn’t even dare to challenge a higher-status member. Since the capacity for this behavior is species-wide, there must be templates for those behaviors involved.  Certainly, one can not impose them on reptiles, or solitary animals like certain cats.  Coincidentally, those seem to be the same animals which are prone to domestication. What are those templates?  How about feelings, such as shame, guilt, fear, a feeling of "less than," of being impressed with another who is "more than." In other words, feelings of a lack of self-worth.  And why do some individuals strive to change the pecking order?  Because those feelings are unpleasant, and they wish for them to be lost.  The way to lose those feelings is to increase one’s status, and with an absence of shame and fear, one has a greater feeling of self-worth. Viewing this in an evolutionary way, why would it happen?  For one thing, a group is more efficient in meeting its needs if it is organized.  For another, lower status enhances cooperation.  And it may be that the higher status individuals breed more often, passing along the genes of the stronger members of the group more frequently than those of the weaker ones. Thus, it is advantageous that the lower ones should strive for higher status, as a test of their potential for ancestry of a future group.  And it may be advantageous if the bolder ones lead the group in defending against intruders. Consequently, we have negative feelings and if not opposite feelings, then at least the absence of the negative ones. There is also an element of confidence.  With confidence, one feels that his behavior is likely to produce a desired result.  And he feels that he has the personal ability to carry out the behaviors.   Consequently, he is more likely to act when he is unable to know the outcome, than would a less confident individual.  Feelings of self-worth seem to be necessary for one to have confidence, and energy to carry out a plan. With the problem of bipolar disorder, this mechanism seems to go astray. The person attains such high confidence, he gambles on high risk propositions.  He has the energy to do a lot of work, and may be aggressive without purpose, as if he were at the top of a pack. Then he swings toward the opposite end, and lacks all confidence, lacks all energy, as if he were at the very bottom.  Is it possible that bipolar disorder means that existing templates for feelings and behavior are being triggered without environmental information which generally does that?  :Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is  :   also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to  :   extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate  :monks,  self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.).  : We have imposed culture upon our biological nature.  Where other creatures might be satisfied to find a place within a small pack, humans overlay their learning on this impulse, and seek through displays of wealth or education to gain the esteem of others, to bolster their self-esteem.  They may be holier than thou, humbler than thou, stronger or more beautiful, wherever they might find their niche.  Their learning may communicate to them that better means more powerful or more envied, or that better means more right.  :Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability  :(i.e.,  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth).  :  :Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination  :   of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)  :   to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,  :   these more global concerns and values can themselves become  :   reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective  :   considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional  :   disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from  :   precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can  :   reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from  :   one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well.  : Negative information can cause negative feelings, but negative feelings can also cause all information to seem negative.  There is also a theory that depression has an evolutionary survival function. There was an observation of I think, some perigrene falcons, which mate for life.  The female did not return to the nest, and the male waited for her until he starved to death.  It was concluded that this was not helpful to the species, and therefore, depression was a fluke of nature. However, what would have happened if he had eventually concluded that she was not returning, and he was hungry and needed to find a meal?  Possibly the behavior of mating for life would have been weakened, which is connected to the survival of that species.  So if that happened a lot, and such birds passed along their genes and increased in number, the behavior may have diminished or disappeared, together with its survival function. So a very strong motivation to be loyal to the partner to the very end, possibly contributes to the survival of that species.  Consequently, depression is not without its function there (assuming the bird was depressed, of course.)  :Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some  :   explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would  :   seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating  :   different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,  :   emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction  :   resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed  :   by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons  :of  :   common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally  :   disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,  :   devaluing experience, etc.  :  :Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed  :   to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for  :   self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way  :of  :   attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational  :   faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first  :"free-thinking"  :   artifact is probably going to be a diesel.  : Huh?  :  :   "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size:  :an  :   injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from  :   without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which  :   eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is  :sufficiently  :   increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will  :   very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is  :destroyed.  :   Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing).  :  :  :Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed  :   amounts to the contention that the most rational species  :   (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the  :   formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via  :   intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can  :reasonably  :   be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of  :   Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned  :   artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why  :a  :   question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally  :   Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it  :   presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a  :   question which can only be addressed in comparative  :   (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm,  :etc.).  : There are some games, including the prisoner’s dilemma, which generally result in irrationality.  There is also a bird which has a behavior of tearing down its neighbor’s nest.  The bird has several choices.  1.) Spend all his time guarding what part of his nest is built, 2.) Look for new … read more »

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–                             Rational Negativism:                A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for    love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,    purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,    suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e., to    synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the    question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism    expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the survivalistically    bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’ Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is    also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to    extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate monks,    self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.). Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability (i.e.,    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth). Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination    of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)    to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,    these more global concerns and values can themselves become    reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective    considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional    disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from    precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can    reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from    one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well. Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some    explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would    seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating    different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,    emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction    resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed    by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons of    common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally    disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,    devaluing experience, etc. Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed    to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for    self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way of    attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational    faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first "free-thinking"    artifact is probably going to be a diesel.    "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size: an    injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from    without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which    eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is sufficiently    increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will    very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is destroyed.    Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing). Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed    amounts to the contention that the most rational species    (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the    formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via    intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can reasonably    be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of    Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned    artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why a    question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally    Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it    presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a    question which can only be addressed in comparative    (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm, etc.).      Along these same lines, the theory can also be construed as an    endorsement or metajustification for comparative approaches in    epistemology (explanationism, plausiblism, etc.)    "The short answer [to Lucas/Godel and more recently, Penrose]     is that, although it is established that there are limitations to the    powers of any particular machine, it has only been stated, without    any sort of proof, that no such limitations apply to human intellect "    (A. M. Turing).    "So even if mathematicians are superb cognizers of mathematical    truth, and even if there is no algorithm, practical or otherwise,    for cognizing mathematical truth, it does not follow that the power    of mathematicians to cognize mathematical truth is not entirely    explicable in terms of their brain’s executing an algorithm.  Not    an algorhithm for intuiting mathematical truth —  we can suppose that    Penrose [via Godel] has proved that there could be no such thing.      What would the algorithm be for, then?  Most plausibly it would be an    algorithm — one of very many — for trying to stay alive … " (D. C.    Dennett). Oops!  Sorry!  Wrong again, old bean.      "My ruling passion is the love of literary fame" (David Hume).    "I have often felt as though I had inherited all the defiance and all the    passions with which our ancestors defended their Temple and could    gladly sacrifice my life for one great moment in history" (Sigmund    Freud).    "He, too [Ludwig Wittgenstein], suffered from depressions and for long    periods considered killing himself because he considered his life    worthless, but the stubbornness inherited from his father may have    helped him to survive" (Hans Sluga).    "The inquest [Alan Turing's] established that it was suicide.  The    evidence was perfunctory, not for any irregular reason, but because    it was so transparently clear a case" (Andrew Hodges) —                Phil Roberts, Jr. Feelings of Worthlessness and So-Called Cognitive Science         http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5476

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Question:

Here in Canada you can only get Wellbutrin in the 150 mg SR format. Period. I had a bad experience once with just half of a 37mg Effexor dose and I do not want to take a whole dose of Wellbutrin, SR or not. So if you break a 150 SR pill into quarters do you get the equivalent of 37.5mg of non SR Wellbutrin? I take it if you break the coating on the pill it is no longer "SR", but is it the same stuff as regular Wellbutrin? Does anyone know if Zyban is sustained release?

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Just FYI….I was breaking in half a time released "beta blocker" (for migraines).  My blood pressure was dropping so I thought I would break it in half to lower the dose. I ended up with a horrid migraine and my doctor told me it was because it was a sustatined release and breaking them in half destroys the ability for it to disperse slowly. Stewart (Metaphor)….does this sound correct to you.  It kind of made sense to me. Nik "So it’s Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy"  Nick Cave, Murder Ballads  Home Page – http://members.aol.com/niknik7/main.html

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I’ve made many a happy fish myself  (haate rats…ugh)with Morphine wastes, Demerol, etc…

Make me happy, mail them my way. I am Protector of the Fishies, Bev’s Narcotics Disposal Service, a service with a smile. nod, nod, nod — bev . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Hi there, Tony….the claritin in and of itself most likely is not the cause of your symptoms….however, the "D" (ie. decongestant) may be…..allergists tend not to perscribe claritin D for routine needs, usualyy only the claritin part…..the decongestant is pseudoephidrine, or one of it’s cousins, which can make you nervous, edgy, wakeful….

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wasn’t referring to claritin in terms of SR drugs….just quirky effects certain meds may or may not have on individuals….that’s all!

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I’ve made many a happy fish myself  (haate rats…ugh)with Morphine wastes, Demerol, etc…

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: don’t know about the Zyban, although I think "in general" it comes in a : smaller dosage……also. while you may have a strong reaction to one med, : the same might not be true with others….some people get TIRED from : tylenol…I take one Benedryl and sleep for 2 days….I get tired on Paxil : and Claritin, both supposedly not drugs which have that effect on most : people…Wellbutrin is in a totally different class than other : AD’s….however, if reaction is "allergic" in nature, discuss w your doc : your concerns….caution is good, but don’t let fear hold you back…. Claritin itself is not a time release drug, it just has a very long half-life which makes once daily dosing feasible.  Claritin-D, however, has in addition 240mg of sudafed which *is* time-release over 24 hours. Caution should be used with breaking Wellbutrin-SR because if you read the literature, you’ll find a single dose which is too high greatly increases the risk of a seizure.  No one really knows how the time release is affected by breaking the tablets, so the prudent thing is to not do it.

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don’t know about the Zyban, although I think "in general" it comes in a smaller dosage……also. while you may have a strong reaction to one med, the same might not be true with others….some people get TIRED from tylenol…I take one Benedryl and sleep for 2 days….I get tired on Paxil and Claritin, both supposedly not drugs which have that effect on most people…Wellbutrin is in a totally different class than other AD’s….however, if reaction is "allergic" in nature, discuss w your doc your concerns….caution is good, but don’t let fear hold you back….

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never break or crush any SR med…wellbutrin or any other….the properties that make it sustained release/long acting, don’t work then, and you can’t "regulate" the med you get…may actually OVERdose yourself that way…real;ly

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Uh…I have worked in nursing homes for the past 6 years.  Here in Washington state nearly all nursing homes use cards with 30 day supply of a specific med for a specific patient.  The meds are prepackaged in little blister packs at the dosage ordered.  It is true that occasionally we have to cut meds in half when the pharmacy delivery is delayed.  But when meds arrive the pills are already cut (if needed) by the pharmacy. But never do we cut meds in half and give one patient one half and another patient the other half.   When we do cut a tablet in half, the other half goes in the garbage.  Yes the patient gets charged for the entire tablet.  But fortunately we don’t have to do it too often. My pet peeve though is narcotics.  Once delivered…. they will not allow it to be returned for a refund.    All other prescriptions are allowed to be returned.  So…. us nurses have to flush many many narcotics every few days.  I remember having to flush about 500 tablets of various narcotics from mscontin to darvocets.   Betcha the rats were happy in the sewers. — Cindy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in Canada you can only get Wellbutrin in the 150 mg SR format. Period. I had a bad experience once with just half of a 37mg Effexor dose and I do not want to take a whole dose of Wellbutrin, SR or not. So if you break a 150 SR pill into quarters do you get the equivalent of 37.5mg of non SR Wellbutrin? I take it if you break the coating on the pill it is no longer "SR", but is it the same stuff as regular Wellbutrin? Does anyone know if Zyban is sustained release? Zyban is exactly the same as Wellbutrin SR.  Studies were done during the development of Wellbutrin SR to determine the release profile of broken tablets (an interesting side bar, many nursing homes routinely cut pills in half giving one half to one resident and the other half to another but charge each resident for an entire pill).  At any rate, what was determined was that: a)it is difficult to accurately divide a Wellbutrin SR dose in half by cutting tablets (trying to quarter a dose would probably leave you with a squashed tablet) b) the sustained release quality was lost but the dissolution profile wasn’t similar to Wellbutrin IR (instant release), it was sort of Wellbutrin MR (modified release). Keeping in mind that the SR formulation was developed to reduce the incidence of siezures, I would not recommend "futzing" with chopping up Wellbutrin SR tablets at all.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in Canada you can only get Wellbutrin in the 150 mg SR format. Period. I had a bad experience once with just half of a 37mg Effexor dose and I do not want to take a whole dose of Wellbutrin, SR or not. So if you break a 150 SR pill into quarters do you get the equivalent of 37.5mg of non SR Wellbutrin? I take it if you break the coating on the pill it is no longer "SR", but is it the same stuff as regular Wellbutrin? Does anyone know if Zyban is sustained release?

Zyban is exactly the same as Wellbutrin SR.  Studies were done during the development of Wellbutrin SR to determine the release profile of broken tablets (an interesting side bar, many nursing homes routinely cut pills in half giving one half to one resident and the other half to another but charge each resident for an entire pill).  At any rate, what was determined was that: a)it is difficult to accurately divide a Wellbutrin SR dose in half by cutting tablets (trying to quarter a dose would probably leave you with a squashed tablet) b) the sustained release quality was lost but the dissolution profile wasn’t similar to Wellbutrin IR (instant release), it was sort of Wellbutrin MR (modified release). Keeping in mind that the SR formulation was developed to reduce the incidence of siezures, I would not recommend "futzing" with chopping up Wellbutrin SR tablets at all.

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Question:

Hi All, I think I remember seeing this discussed before, but I don’t remember what was said, so please forgive the re-hashing. How are those who are using Zoloft taking it?  IOW, are you taking 1 per day, or more frequently?  And what doseages? Thanks! Cathy

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Hi Cathy, I take 25 mgs as soon as I remember to after I wake up. Charla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I think I remember seeing this discussed before, but I don’t remember what was said, so please forgive the re-hashing. How are those who are using Zoloft taking it?  IOW, are you taking 1 per day, or more frequently?  And what doseages? Thanks! Cathy

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Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately. (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck. Mary — Today is a gift, that’s why we call it the present.

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It’s common knowledge that "MaryK" said: Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day.

Wow…that’s significantly more than the 25mg I’m taking, but then again I only started recently. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately.

Ok.  Thanks! (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck.

Oh!  I’m so sorry, Mary, that you are having such problems!  Have you talked to your Dr. yet?  Maybe he’ll let you try something else, or maybe increase the Zoloft?  I wonder what maximum Zoloft dose is allowed. ((the other)) Cathy

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Thanks, Charla. Cathy It’s common knowledge that "charla" said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Cathy, I take 25 mgs as soon as I remember to after I wake up. Charla

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Mary, I think Zoloft may still be a good med for you also!! I’ve been on Zoloft 150 mg/day for 6 years. When I experienced "poop out", instead of switching meds my psychiatrist added Cylert with good results for about 1 year. After that combo pooped out, he discontinued the Cylert and added desipramine 50 mg/day, which I am still on (in addition to Zoloft 150 mg/day). The process of adding a med to Zoloft (or any antidepressant) to make it start working again, or better, is called "augmentation". Too many docs just take you off a med that has been working previously and start you on another, and another, and another etc. Untill they find one that works. I do not know what symptoms you are experiencing when you say "poop out". What I experienced was the onset of depression. And I had good results by staying on Zoloft, but augmenting it with small doses of other meds. Chip Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately. (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck. Mary — Today is a gift, that’s why we call it the present.

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50mgs/day for 5 years (Zoloft) for me Kerrie

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50mgs/day for 5 years (Zoloft) for me Kerrie

I take 200 mgs of Zoloft once in the a.m.  Been doing this for 8 months with good results.  Not spectacular, but *good*, and that’s good enough right now. My Pdoc says 200 mgs is the "max," although he admits to having some clients on 250. Melissa

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… ~Desi

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot…

Desi, if you search Deja news for references to Zoloft you will see a lot of discusion on it. Personally, I wouldn’t read it, however. If you are optimistic the best thing, IMO, is just to take it, follow your doctor’s instructions and see how you get on. We anxiety types can be very suggestible and it might be better not to predispose yourself to problems through other people’s opinions and experiences. Good luck! — Gary Cooper

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: Hey guys… : :  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and : he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering : what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am : very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… Hi again Desi, Some folks do very well on Zoloft, while others don’t. It’s really very difficult to predict how any individual will respond to any specific medication for these disorders. As Gary commented, best just to try it and see how it goes. Keep in touch.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… Desi, if you search Deja news for references to Zoloft you will see a lot of discusion on it.

Hi there… I’m new. I’ve been on Zoloft for 2 months. 100 mgs. Its just kicked in and has helped me emensly! The only side effect i had was this thing with my tongue…it felt weird. You’ll like the drug. Its got me to a level that I know I dont have to worry. It took awhile to kick in… dak

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PS……if you couldn’t tell by the X-File sig.

NIK!  You’re not Gizzie from the X-Files newsgroup, are you?!  I haven’t read that group for a long time, but I sure remember Giz! — Bunny

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NIK!  You’re not Gizzie from the X-Files newsgroup, are you?!  I haven’t read that group for a long time, but I sure remember Giz!

No hon…….haven’t really posted there (although I have lurked).  I just had changed from NikNik7 to MycatGiz cuz I was getting tired of 50 spam e-mails and 1 personal one. Plus I got paranoid that people might find me here and use it against me.  Of course, now that I have made it common knowledge and got over my little incident of paranoia I can say….. NIKNIK7 is also MYCATGIZ. Nik They say, "she’s crazy as anyone can be" That’s what they say, they say of me…….Sheryl Crow "On the Outside"

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Gee, can you say…….Frivolous Lawsuits. I’m not sure, let me try… Frivvawassa roosuts.

You’re singing backup for Baba Wawa these days? — Bunny

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Did I hear you say law suit?  Don’t just stand by and do nothing about it.  You know what it takes for evil to prosper … oh, give me a break!  I went thru it too but I hardly think it warrants a friggin lawsuit. Gee, can you say…….Frivolous Lawsuits. Nik

o.k., granted this *would* be a frivolous lawsuit, imho… but just barely.  i don’t know how bad your withdrawal was, but with mine had i had a steady job at the time (i was a student, and still am, actually) i would have missed about a week’s worth of work…and i like to think of myself as pretty hardy.   anyway, comisseration to any who have had to deal with coming off effexor. not anything i’d ever want to do again…i actually still have the occasional side effect (did something get permenantly fucked in my brain?) even though i’ve been off the stuff for over 2 years.  fun, fun, fun. -m.

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PS……if you couldn’t tell by the X-File sig. Hope it isn’t too long for you Mark…..I tried to keep it short just for you but am thinking of adding the entire lyrics to Stairway to Heaven and the 13 think? Nik They say, "she’s crazy as anyone can be" That’s what they say, they say of me…….Sheryl Crow "On the Outside"

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Hey, Nik, you’re not "niknik" of old, are you?

Nik They say, "she’s crazy as anyone can be" That’s what they say, they say of me…….Sheryl Crow "On the Outside"

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Did I hear you say law suit?  Don’t just stand by and do nothing about it.  You know what it takes for evil to prosper …

oh, give me a break!  I went thru it too but I hardly think it warrants a friggin lawsuit. Gee, can you say…….Frivolous Lawsuits. Nik They say, "she’s crazy as anyone can be" That’s what they say, they say of me…….Sheryl Crow "On the Outside"

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I could go on and on about the interesting and and accute withdrawal symptoms I have been experiencing, but if you are taking Effexor, or thinking about it you should try to search AltaVista for "effexor withrdrawal" and look at the nearly 200,000 hits that come up.  No you won’t find any warning listed with your prescription. Most of the doctors who prescibe this stuff don’t know about this side effect.   Did I hear you say law suit?  Don’t just stand by and do nothing about it.  You know what it takes for evil to prosper … These statements are my personal opinions, and should not be considered medical advice or a call for any illegal or improper actions.

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Don’t start taking this drug, you will be *sorry* when you stop.

It isn’t like that for most people that take the drug, for most it has very few side effects and withdrawal only has minor ones if any.  The three weeks of suffering you will go through are not worth it.

I had a lot more than three weeks. I had trouble all the while I took it and then coming off I had to go so slow that it took eight weeks just to get off it and some of the side effects persisted for six more weeks after that. Still though, for a lot of people Effexor is an effective drug with few side effects. I think that the difference in people’s reactions to it may indicate differing etiologies or pathologies or both for clinical depression. — bev . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Don’t start taking this drug, you will be *sorry* when you stop.  The three weeks of suffering you will go through are not worth it.  Find and ask someone better informed that the doctor who gave you this idea.

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Don’t start taking this drug, you will be *sorry* when you stop.  The three weeks of suffering you will go through are not worth it.  Find and ask someone better informed that the doctor who gave you this idea.

I didn’t have any joy going thru the withdrawal of Effexor however I would hardly say I regret being on it for 2 1/2 years.  It *did* work and the only thing I told my pdoc was that I wished I had known how bad the withdrawal was….something he didn’t know of yet, either. If Effexor works for you or your doc thinks it might…don’t judge the medication just because of what it is like to go off of it.  Some people may be fortunate enough to find it works for them and even if for a couple years….isn’t that better than being depressed for a couple more years….even if it mean a couple months of being uncomfortable? Nik They say, "she’s crazy as anyone can be" That’s what they say, they say of me…….Sheryl Crow "On the Outside"

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Effexor is a mood elevator. When you go off this drug,

I got dangerous side effects while on the drug. Hell, we even increased the dose after they started; thought it had more to do with a situational problem than internal workings of the neural system. The side effects worsened during withdrawal but were present before withdrawal. — bev . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Some questions: How much does Effexor cost in California if you have to buy it yourself?

I paid $80.95 for one months supply of Effxor ER  150 mG at a store called "The Medicine Shoppe" in California.  Prices vary, call around to different stores. Welcome to California, the land of fruits, nuts, and flakes. Charles

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I have very mixed feelings about Effexor…it was very helpful to me while on it, but insurance problems prevented me from continuing on the medication, and not having anything to fall back on I had to quit taking it. I did this in a phased withdrawl but it was still very difficult. I would only recomenned Effexor if a person knows that they will be covered by insurance and will always have access to it. Otherwise go with something that is cheaper (it’s VERY expensive) and you know you can get with no problem.

Oh dear. Effexor has been an absolute life-saver for me (literally).  In the UK, we pay the same whatever our medication, so that’s okay.  But I’m now moving to the US (getting married), and I’ve no idea what my insurance situation will be.  I can get 3 months worth of Effexor from my GP to take with me.  I am sure I can safely halve my dose and make that last for 6 months.  But I don’t know what I’ll do then. Some questions: How much does Effexor cost in California if you have to buy it yourself? Does anyone by any chance have an insurance company they can recommend, who will cover ADs? Has anyone mixed Effexor with any herbal ADs? Christine  Christine Daae on the Web   http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~cdaae/

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                             Effexor withdrawal Hello there.  You guys talk a lot about effexor and withdrawal but provide few details, and I am CURIOUS… Could you please enlighten me? Thanks

Sorry…several of us have been through it and you forget there are others here whom are unfamiliar with the drug. Effexor is a mood elevator. When you go off this drug, and this is especially true if it happens suddenly (though in a phased withdrawl bad things can happen too), you can drop into some very frightening and VERY dangerous depression. If you have already had problems with suicidal thoughts they come back with a vengeance, and in my case I spent entire days either weeping or unable to do anything apart from lie in bed and feel terrorized. I have very mixed feelings about Effexor…it was very helpful to me while on it, but insurance problems prevented me from continuing on the medication, and not having anything to fall back on I had to quit taking it. I did this in a phased withdrawl but it was still very difficult. I would only recomenned Effexor if a person knows that they will be covered by insurance and will always have access to it. Otherwise go with something that is cheaper (it’s VERY expensive) and you know you can get with no problem. Jeff (Drop the x to e-mail)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Yikes!!!  Yesterday I was ‘locked out’ of newsgroup because of some stuff Worldnet was doing with the Usenet so I am very far behind. I spoke with a woman in Idaho yesterday who wants to write a grant to Albertson’s (a food chain).  Apparently they fund stuff for kids with illnesses.  I was thinking that there must be some kids with generalized who need equipment of some type (ie computers, wheelchairs, etc). Christine needs numbers of kids affected by ITD, numbers from a quotable source.  Also some specifics on what kids might need.  Christine is an adult with torticollis so her knowledge is limited regarding ITD.  I told her I would try to get back to her on Thursday Oct 3rd…thinking I could post yesterday. Anyhow, your expertise would be much appreciated!! Thanks, MBValerie Kinch has a questionnaire on the WWW page and Bob Campbell might be able to help in getting some numbers put together. There is nothing in the literature that gives a number. The only possibility is maybe extrapolating ITD by contacting Chicago getting a percentage and applying it to 300,000 people. I would also contact Mike [of Jeff Harris who has disappeared, why?] and asking for input. Also get your hands on 8 to 18.

Hi Larry, I have 8-18.  I will contact Michael (don’t know what happened to him!). Christine already spoke to Chicago, however she was so vague with them that I am sure that is why they couldn’t help her.  I had to be pretty pushy on the phone just to center her on one topic and I find it hard to be pushy (believe it or not).  TY for the input! MB

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Yikes!!!  Yesterday I was ‘locked out’ of newsgroup because of some stuff Worldnet was doing with the Usenet so I am very far behind. I spoke with a woman in Idaho yesterday who wants to write a grant to Albertson’s (a food chain).  Apparently they fund stuff for kids with illnesses.  I was thinking that there must be some kids with generalized who need equipment of some type (ie computers, wheelchairs, etc). Christine needs numbers of kids affected by ITD, numbers from a quotable source.  Also some specifics on what kids might need.  Christine is an adult with torticollis so her knowledge is limited regarding ITD.  I told her I would try to get back to her on Thursday Oct 3rd…thinking I could post yesterday. Anyhow, your expertise would be much appreciated!! Thanks, MBValerie Kinch has a questionnaire on the WWW page and Bob Campbell might

be able to help in getting some numbers put together. There is nothing in the literature that gives a number. The only possibility is maybe extrapolating ITD by contacting Chicago getting a percentage and applying it to 300,000 people. I would also contact Mike [of Jeff Harris who has disappeared, why?] and asking for input. Also get your hands on 8 to 18.

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Hi All, Yikes!!!  Yesterday I was ‘locked out’ of newsgroup because of some stuff Worldnet was doing with the Usenet so I am very far behind. I spoke with a woman in Idaho yesterday who wants to write a grant to Albertson’s (a food chain).  Apparently they fund stuff for kids with illnesses.  I was thinking that there must be some kids with generalized who need equipment of some type (ie computers, wheelchairs, etc).   Christine needs numbers of kids affected by ITD, numbers from a quotable source.  Also some specifics on what kids might need.  Christine is an adult with torticollis so her knowledge is limited regarding ITD.  I told her I would try to get back to her on Thursday Oct 3rd…thinking I could post yesterday. Anyhow, your expertise would be much appreciated!! Thanks, MB

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Yikes!!!  Yesterday I was ‘locked out’ of newsgroup because of some stuff Worldnet was doing with the Usenet so I am very far behind. I spoke with a woman in Idaho yesterday who wants to write a grant to Albertson’s (a food chain).  Apparently they fund stuff for kids with illnesses.  I was thinking that there must be some kids with generalized who need equipment of some type (ie computers, wheelchairs, etc). Christine needs numbers of kids affected by ITD, numbers from a quotable source.  Also some specifics on what kids might need.  Christine is an adult with torticollis so her knowledge is limited regarding ITD.  I told her I would try to get back to her on Thursday Oct 3rd…thinking I could post yesterday. Anyhow, your expertise would be much appreciated!! Thanks, MBValerie Kinch has a questionnaire on the WWW page and Bob Campbell might be able to help in getting some numbers put together. There is nothing in the literature that gives a number. The only possibility is maybe extrapolating ITD by contacting Chicago getting a percentage and applying it to 300,000 people. I would also contact Mike [of Jeff Harris who has disappeared, why?] and asking for input. Also get your hands on 8 to 18.

I’m here, Larry – just been busy so my posts have been few and far between.  Michael has not been "on line" for a while, but it you have anything for him send it to me and I’ll pass it along.  (BTW, MEDICALLY he’s been doing VERY well.  Today was a "spasmy" day, but on Rosh Hashana he STOOD on the Bima and helped lead the prayers in Junior Congregation!  (His Bar Mitzvah is a year away). As far as statistics, neither he nor I would have anything.  The best person I can think of for extrapolating numbers might be Debbie DeLeon.  I’m sure in doing the genetic models she must have percentages.  The other person who might have something would be Ron Cabay, the Childrens Advocacy leader. Jeff H.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Yikes!!!  Yesterday I was ‘locked out’ of newsgroup because of some stuff Worldnet was doing with the Usenet so I am very far behind. I spoke with a woman in Idaho yesterday who wants to write a grant to Albertson’s (a food chain).  Apparently they fund stuff for kids with illnesses.  I was thinking that there must be some kids with generalized who need equipment of some type (ie computers, wheelchairs, etc). Christine needs numbers of kids affected by ITD, numbers from a quotable source.  Also some specifics on what kids might need.  Christine is an adult with torticollis so her knowledge is limited regarding ITD.  I told her I would try to get back to her on Thursday Oct 3rd…thinking I could post yesterday. Anyhow, your expertise would be much appreciated!! Thanks, MBValerie Kinch has a questionnaire on the WWW page and Bob Campbell might be able to help in getting some numbers put together. There is nothing in the literature that gives a number. The only possibility is maybe extrapolating ITD by contacting Chicago getting a percentage and applying it to 300,000 people. I would also contact Mike [of Jeff Harris who has disappeared, why?] and asking for input. Also get your hands on 8 to 18. Hi Larry, I have 8-18.  I will contact Michael (don’t know what happened to him!). Christine already spoke to Chicago, however she was so vague with them that I am sure that is why they couldn’t help her.  I had to be pretty pushy on the phone just to center her on one topic and I find it hard to be pushy (believe it or not).  TY for the input! MB

How about writing the NIH? Nationa Institute of Neuro Disorders and Stroke Building 10,  Room 5N226 10 CENTER DR. MISC 1428 BETHESDA MD 20892-1428 Phone (301)496-1561  (before 8 AM in CA it’s cheap and good time to get them back East.

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It is a horrible feeling of extreme isolation when looked out of this news group.  I understand how you felt.   I’m so glad your fund-raising dinner went well.  Good Job!  And to top it off, you were able to spend som quality time with Jennifer.   Now, to your needed suggestions.  Somewhere in the archieves for this newsgroup, I remember reading about one of the children with ITD needing voice activated software, like Dragon Dictate.  It is a wonderful program for someone who has limited mobility using their arms, hands, and shoulder area.  I have the program, because for a while I could barely use my right arm and hand.  It is very easy for a non-computer literate person to learn to use. (More complicated for us old-timers who are stuck in our ways.) It runs with most windows based programs, so a child would have access to programs for doing their homework as well as playing a few games.  It runs about $500 to $600 for a start-up set of disks, which has a smaller dictionary.  The dictionary would be adequate for most grade school and high school students.  The program can be added to, if the child decided to attend college and needed a larger vocabulary.  I believe there is only the PC version available, but checking with Dragon Dictate would clarify whether or not there is a Mac version.  I believe it is useable on laptops with enough memory installed, so a child could use it both at school and home.  Information can be obtained from Dragon Systems, Inc., 320 Nevada Street, Newton, MA 02160, Tel (617) 965-5200, Fax (617) 527-0372. Hope this helps. Sherrie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is a horrible feeling of extreme isolation when looked out of this news group.  I understand how you felt.   I’m so glad your fund-raising dinner went well.  Good Job!  And to top it off, you were able to spend som quality time with Jennifer.   Now, to your needed suggestions.  Somewhere in the archieves for this newsgroup, I remember reading about one of the children with ITD needing voice activated software, like Dragon Dictate.  It is a wonderful program for someone who has limited mobility using their arms, hands, and shoulder area.  I have the program, because for a while I could barely use my right arm and hand.  It is very easy for a non-computer literate person to learn to use. (More complicated for us old-timers who are stuck in our ways.) It runs with most windows based programs, so a child would have access to programs for doing their homework as well as playing a few games.  It runs about $500 to $600 for a start-up set of disks, which has a smaller dictionary.  The dictionary would be adequate for most grade school and high school students.  The program can be added to, if the child decided to attend college and needed a larger vocabulary.  I believe there is only the PC version available, but checking with Dragon Dictate would clarify whether or not there is a Mac version.  I believe it is useable on laptops with enough memory installed, so a child could use it both at school and home.  Information can be obtained from Dragon Systems, Inc., 320 Nevada Street, Newton, MA 02160, Tel (617) 965-5200, Fax (617) 527-0372. Hope this helps. Sherrie

Thanks so much, Sherrie!!  I am supposed to phone Chris today and I will most definitely give her this info.  I also remember that topic, now that you have jogged my memory…it gets harder and harder, the older one becomes <<VBG I really enjoyed the time with Jennifer…she is such a doll.  I refuse to use the word ’success’ yet in describing the event.  Perhaps in time and with some perspective, my attitude will change.  Right now I desparately need a ‘holiday from dystonia’. Take care, sweetheart! MB

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

Hi, Ador.  I’m a parent – not a patient – and Michael is only 12, so my answer to your survey wouldn’t be meaningful; but a couple of suggestions: Plan A – Ways you might keep your license: 1) Contact the Independent Living Center in your area.  There are driving programs/drivers ed programs especially designed for people with disabilities ("PWD") , and also specialized equipment that enables many PWD to operate a vehicle safely.  This training might convince your doctor; OR maybe they know a doctor who is more sensitive on the issues. 2) Discuss this with your Movement Disorder neurologist – NOT your primary care physician.   3) Contact some of the dealers of Adapted Vehicles and Equipment for suggestions. Keep in touch!  Maybe we can come up with other ideas LOL– Jeff H.

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

Ador, I am hearing your ‘fear’ of becoming dependent, rather than remaining independent.  I am concerned.  I have generalized dystonia and must use a walker to get around, but I have driven for years with no questions from doctors or our CA Motor Vehicle Dept.  You have lingual dystonia, isn’t that right?  Does it impair your ability to drive?  I cannot quite visualize that…please help us understand so that we can help, OK?  We are HERE for you, Ador!  Please talk with us, OK? Love, MB

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

(emailed as well as posted) Hi Ador: Yes, I still drive.  I have ST.  I also have panic disorder with severe depressive episodes and Essential Tremor.  So I shake like a leaf most of the time and my head nid-nods, panic attacks can be *hell* and sometimes I can slide into a big, black hole of depresssion.  And if someone even *hinted* that I should lose my license because of any or all of that, you would hear the explosion all the way from BC Canada!  ): That depression is probably our worst enemy, because it just takes away the energy to enjoy anything and turns everything grey.  But it’s part of our being affected with disabling disorders you know.  Everything I’ve read says that we have to be aware that this can strike at us, my specialist says the same thing. PLEASE take steps to get some treatment for your depression ASAP.  It makes all the difference, I promise you.  Ask your specialist or your MD to refer you to a specialist in mood disorders so that you can get the help you need.  I know it’s hellish, but it’s a *symptom* and not a true emotion of the real you.  You need to hang on to that Ador, the depression is a symptom and can be cured – the way it makes you feel is not really you at all. As far as the license goes, a primare care physician is not capable of making that kind of decision.  Only a specialist in dystonia can do so.  Fight off that depression, pick up the phone and call a lawyer (Legal Aide if necessary) if you have to.  But FIRST get the appointment arranged for help with the depression. THEN do battle with the bureaucrats if you have to, you’ll more than likely be helping someone else who is unable to take on that battle who has run into the same discrimination.  Put on that red suit with the big yellow S on it!  :)  And after you read this, go subscribe to alt.support.depression – some wonderful, *caring* people there. Hope that helps a little.  Give ‘em HELL Ador. Mally  :)  (Who hopes Ador will not be offended by Mally in a bossy mood…who gets that way when she’s worried about someone.)

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Hi Ador: I just had to stick my two cents in here.  I have two friends who come to mind when I read your posting.  One has CP, very bad spasms all the time, and this coupled with the fact that she’s now 73 years old.  The other was a Thalidamide (sp) baby, she’s now 46, has no arms nor legs. Both are still driving.  They didn’t have to get permission from their doctors or have them vouch for them.  This is in Texas so I don’t know about other states – but both took the driver’s test – both drive specially equiped vehicles – and drive under handicapped license plates. They had no problems as long as they could pass the exam. I know it is a major adjustment when we loose our ability to do things that we used to do – and I might add – took for granted – at least I certainly did.  And of course in the case of ones ability to get in their car and go when they want to would be hard to give up.  I understand that – I watched this happen with my father.  But Ador, he had to ask himself and be honest with himself on the answer of "Was he still able to drive safely".  Hard question for one to answer and be honest about it as it was (for him) letting go of his independence in having his own car, etc.  I’m not saying that you’re in this situation but it’s something to think about for all of us as we age, loose eyesight, whatever. Have you checked with your states requirements on this and if you were able to pass a drivers test would you have to get a doctors voucher? What about contacting your states organization for people with disabilities – I am sure they have one – I know this thought is depressing to you.  It would be to anyone – BUT – you can overcome this obsticle – do some research on it – Mally had a great point that a primary physician really doesn’t know the ins and outs of dystnia – mine only knows what I’ve told him – You’ve got a world of folks out here who you don’t even know Ador and we’re all pulling for you.  Hang in there and explore other avenues – you never know what your going to find around that corner. Good luck and big hugs from South Texas – Anne Here in San Antonio, we have wonderful bus services for people with disabilities.  It is a blessing for those who either can’t drive anymore or who never drove. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed. (emailed as well as posted) Hi Ador: Yes, I still drive.  I have ST.  I also have panic disorder with severe depressive episodes and Essential Tremor.  So I shake like a leaf most of the time and my head nid-nods, panic attacks can be *hell* and sometimes I can slide into a big, black hole of depresssion.  And if someone even *hinted* that I should lose my license because of any or all of that, you would hear the explosion all the way from BC Canada!  ): That depression is probably our worst enemy, because it just takes away the energy to enjoy anything and turns everything grey.  But it’s part of our being affected with disabling disorders you know.  Everything I’ve read says that we have to be aware that this can strike at us, my specialist says the same thing. PLEASE take steps to get some treatment for your depression ASAP.  It makes all the difference, I promise you.  Ask your specialist or your MD to refer you to a specialist in mood disorders so that you can get the help you need.  I know it’s hellish, but it’s a *symptom* and not a true emotion of the real you.  You need to hang on to that Ador, the depression is a symptom and can be cured – the way it makes you feel is not really you at all. As far as the license goes, a primare care physician is not capable of making that kind of decision.  Only a specialist in dystonia can do so.  Fight off that depression, pick up the phone and call a lawyer (Legal Aide if necessary) if you have to.  But FIRST get the appointment arranged for help with the depression. THEN do battle with the bureaucrats if you have to, you’ll more than likely be helping someone else who is unable to take on that battle who has run into the same discrimination.  Put on that red suit with the big yellow S on it!  :)  And after you read this, go subscribe to alt.support.depression – some wonderful, *caring* people there. Hope that helps a little.  Give ‘em HELL Ador. Mally  :)  (Who hopes Ador will not be offended by Mally in a bossy mood…who gets that way when she’s worried about someone.)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed. (emailed as well as posted) Hi Ador: Yes, I still drive.  I have ST.  I also have panic disorder with severe depressive episodes and Essential Tremor.  So I shake like a leaf most of the time and my head nid-nods, panic attacks can be *hell* and sometimes I can slide into a big, black hole of depresssion.  And if someone even *hinted* that I should lose my license because of any or all of that, you would hear the explosion all the way from BC Canada!  ): That depression is probably our worst enemy, because it just takes away the energy to enjoy anything and turns everything grey.  But it’s part of our being affected with disabling disorders you know.  Everything I’ve read says that we have to be aware that this can strike at us, my specialist says the same thing. PLEASE take steps to get some treatment for your depression ASAP.  It makes all the difference, I promise you.  Ask your specialist or your MD to refer you to a specialist in mood disorders so that you can get the help you need.  I know it’s hellish, but it’s a *symptom* and not a true emotion of the real you.  You need to hang on to that Ador, the depression is a symptom and can be cured – the way it makes you feel is not really you at all. As far as the license goes, a primare care physician is not capable of making that kind of decision.  Only a specialist in dystonia can do so.  Fight off that depression, pick up the phone and call a lawyer (Legal Aide if necessary) if you have to.  But FIRST get the appointment arranged for help with the depression. THEN do battle with the bureaucrats if you have to, you’ll more than likely be helping someone else who is unable to take on that battle who has run into the same discrimination.  Put on that red suit with the big yellow S on it!  :)  And after you read this, go subscribe to alt.support.depression – some wonderful, *caring* people there. Hope that helps a little.  Give ‘em HELL Ador. Mally  :)  (Who hopes Ador will not be offended by Mally in a bossy mood…who gets that way when she’s worried about someone.)

Blessings Mally MB

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

Hi Ador. I suppose your GP is afraid of your leg dystonia.  I wouldn’t take his word. I have lingual dystonia but I also react with a wild general myoconic motions in all parts of m body when a certain sound is heard.  If first happened on an evoked potential test, then on MRI and sometimes it happens listening to music, altho on that if I can get to the raido soon enough no lasting harm done. Howeverer I insisted on showing my present Neuro what happens on the sound of the Evoked Potentials.  He knows other sounds d it too but he hasnever pulled my license. Suggest you go on your neuro’s decission. Catherine

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Hi! This is an informal survey of who among us Dystonia sufferers are still driving and who were forced to surrender their driver’s license. Please answer the following questions  truthfully: 1) Do you still drive despite your dystonia?   Yes            No 2) What type of dystonia do you have? 3) Did anyone of you lose your driver’s license because of your illness, dystonia? 4) To those who lost their license, were you able to get one again? I am making this informal survey because I am about to lose my license simply because my primary physician or any physician I know does not want to vouch for me that I am "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely? I don’t know what I will do without a driver’s license. I am very depressed.

Hi, The answer to question #1 isn’t applicable to me as I never had a driver’s lincense, and I’m 55 yrs old.  I did take driving lessons a couple of yrs ago — and I was doing quite well with the instructor I had, but unfortunately he quit his job just as I was gaining self-confidence…  I didn’t do anything to him for him to quit the job…  <g.  So, I never pursued my ‘dream’ for a driver’s lincense after this episode.  I could have gone to my state’s (Maryland) rehab center for driving lesons — I tried it once, but didn’t like the "snob" of instructor that was doing the teaching…  This brings to mind a question you — have u looked into your state’s rehab center — they could retrian you?  Why not write a letter to your congressman and see what he/she could do for you in issueing another driver’s license?  I know the feeling fof rejection.  You aren’t alone in this… The answer to question #2:  I have cerebral palsy  and generalized dystonia .  I can do anything I make up my mind to do.  If I want to do something — nothing stands in my way!  So, if you’re about to lose your license — why don’t ‘fight’ for it?  I have to fight for eveything I want — that’s the way the ball bounces.  I wished I didn’t have to fight for everything, but I do — to keep above board…  :-) Sorry, I can’t answer questions 3 & 4. There, I’ve said my 2 cents worth!  I *love* surveys!!… Cheerio, Becky

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Mally, bless you for the caring response to Ador about  her license and depression.  You said it all!! (I am on AOL and know how to "quote" when replying to e-mail but when in n/g it does not quote the same way; sorry) BTW, finally, met someone else with dystonia!!! Thru my dr., I have met another patient and had dinner with him and his wife Saturday.  What a joy for both of us. He is 62 with no computer and was fascinated by my telling him all I have found. You can be sure I will print some of these posts from a.s.d. to show him what a caring group can be found online. It really has helped my depression knowing every morning I can go to a.s.d. and "be" with others who truly know and understand. Love & Hugs,  Bonnie (hey, Texas is drying out!

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Dear MB, I think you are right. I have "fear" of becoming dependent rather than being indepen- dent which implies, among other things, the freedom to drive anywhere I please. I have generalized dystonia. I have dystonia of the foot but my neuro,a movement disorder specialist, says that my right leg is rigid only when I walk. Dystonia does not manifest itself or bother me when I am sitting or lying down so it does not affect my driving. I do use two canes when walking but that is to help me maintain my balance. I also have lingual dystonia which has caused me speech, chewing and swallowing difficulties—which do not affect my driving. The request for a medical examination report came about as a result of a minor vehicular accident wherein I caused a few scratches on the right rear side of the   other   vehicle involved. This was my first accident since I started driving here in the US in 1983 and since I was diagnosed with dystonia in 1991.DMV sent me a medical examination report for me and my doctor to accomplish to determine whether I am medically and physically fit to drive a motor vehicle safely. I went to my HMO (U.S. Healthcare) primary physician and asked him to fill up the report but he declined saying that since my illness is neurological in nature, I should ask my neurologist to accomplish the report. When we left his clinic, I was very depressed and I literally cried in the car going home because I knew that I stand to lose my driver’s license if I cannot find a doctor who will vouch for me as "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely."  I don’t know what I will do without a car. I am sure my depression will become worse if I become homebound. I have been driving a lot before the accident but since that accident, I think I have used the car only twice a week. I believe I am a careful driver because I have never been involved in an accident nor received a ticket for traffic violation since 1991 and 1983.      

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(U.S. Healthcare) primary physician and asked him to fill up the report but he declined saying that since my illness is neurological in nature, I should ask my neurologist to accomplish the report. When we left his clinic, I was very depressed and I literally cried in the car going home because I knew that I stand to lose my driver’s license if I cannot find a doctor who will vouch for me as "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely."

Have you been to see your neuro yet?  Seems that since, as you said, your leg is only rigid when you’re standing, he should have no problem in filling out the form for you and getting you back behind the wheel. It’s easy to right away worry about the "worst case" scenario, and becomse quite upset and depressed, but often things turn out to be not that bad (as we hope is the case in this situation!). Do keep us posted as to your neuro’s decision. Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear MB, I think you are right. I have "fear" of becoming dependent rather than being indepen- dent which implies, among other things, the freedom to drive anywhere I please. I have generalized dystonia. I have dystonia of the foot but my neuro,a movement disorder specialist, says that my right leg is rigid only when I walk. Dystonia does not manifest itself or bother me when I am sitting or lying down so it does not affect my driving. I do use two canes when walking but that is to help me maintain my balance. I also have lingual dystonia which has caused me speech, chewing and swallowing difficulties—which do not affect my driving. The request for a medical examination report came about as a result of a minor vehicular accident wherein I caused a few scratches on the right rear side of the   other   vehicle involved. This was my first accident since I started driving here in the US in 1983 and since I was diagnosed with dystonia in 1991.DMV sent me a medical examination report for me and my doctor to accomplish to determine whether I am medically and physically fit to drive a motor vehicle safely. I went to my HMO (U.S. Healthcare) primary physician and asked him to fill up the report but he declined saying that since my illness is neurological in nature, I should ask my neurologist to accomplish the report. When we left his clinic, I was very depressed and I literally cried in the car going home because I knew that I stand to lose my driver’s license if I cannot find a doctor who will vouch for me as "medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely."  I don’t know what I will do without a car. I am sure my depression will become worse if I become homebound. I have been driving a lot before the accident but since that accident, I think I have used the car only twice a week. I believe I am a careful driver because I have never been involved in an accident nor received a ticket for traffic violation since 1991 and 1983.      

Dear Ador, You have made my day by responding to all of us here on a.s.d. I want you to listen carefully!  I use a walker to get around due to generalized dystonia.  I have driven since 1962 and have been lucky to have had no accidents yet [knock on wood!].  I also am relaxed when sitting down so driving is not a problem for me.  I caught something in your other post that waved a major red flag to me…you said that you have Parkinson’s…perhaps that is part of the problem now because Parkinson’s is a progressive disease that leads to severe immobility and eventual death.  Dystonia is a damn nuisance, but does not kill us! Would Mitchel Brin be willing to fill out the form for you?  He apparently acknowledges that sitting & driving are no problem for you. Perhaps some of our NY connections on asd will have some suggestions!  It might be worth the trip to Columbia to attempt to get this resolved!  I am certain that you are a careful driver…I kinda think I am careful because I value my freedom to drive too much to risk throwing it away.   Maybe even a trip to your DMV office with info on dystonia [print out some stuff from the web pages http://www.ziplink.net/users/dystonia] and FIGHT for your license, Ador, knowing that there are a whole bunch of us here supporting you! Please keep us posted and Best Of Luck…I know you can do it, Ador!!! Much Love, MB

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Dear A.S.D. friends: I was overwhelmed by the response to my post re driver’s license for dystonia patients.. Thank you to all those who responded. I was deeply touched. But in my haste to post "Driver’s license for dystonia patients" I failed to include some valuable information which may change your opinion. Even so, I want to be honest to you. The request for Medical Examination from DMV was the result of a minor vehicu- lar accident I was involved in last December 28, 1966. I was driving south on Moonachie road at about 35 mph when a north-bound car swerved to the left into the driveway of Segovia Restaurant. I didn’t see it swerve to the left and I didn’t notice if the other car gave a warning signal. Half of the car body was inside the driveway when I noticed it. But considering the speed at which the other car entered the driveway, I thought that my speed was slow enough to pass the other car safely. But instead of moving on, the other  car suddenly stopped with its rear end protruding. When I saw the other car not moving and its rear end in my path, I hit the brake but the road was wet, my car skidded and struck the rear right side of the other car. The police report said I was trying to beat the other car in getting into the driveway but this is not true. I was going home which is one block away from the site of the accident. I think the reason the other car stopped abruptly is that the other driver realized he entered the wrong way. He entered the driveway exit instead of the entrance to the one-way driveway. The police noticed I was using two canes to walk and he asked me about my medical condition. I told him I have Parkinson’s disease. The police sent a copy of the report to DMV. The DMV sent me a medical examination report which they want me and "my doctor" to accomplish to determine whether I am medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely". I went to my US Healthcare (HMO) primary physician and asked him to accomplish the report but he declined saying that since my illness is neurological in nature, he thinks a neurologist should accomplish the report. When we left his clinic, I was very depressed and I literally cried in the car going home because I knew I stand to lose my driver’s license if I cannot find a doctor who will certify that I am mentally and physically fit to drive. I strongly believe I am mentally and physically fit to drive because I did a lot of driving last year, driving as far north as Paramus which is 10 miles away from home. I can still do it in my present condition. I also believe I am a careful driver but for this accident last Dec. 28, 1996, I think the other driver is partly to blame. I never had an accident before, not even a ticket for a traffic violation. This accident was my first since I started driving in the US IN 1983. I continued to drive even after I was diagnosed with dystonia in 1991. My illness, dystonia of the foot makes walking very difficult for me but not driving. Dr. M. Brin of Mount Sinai Medical Center said my right leg is rigid only when I am walking, but not when I am at rest. My foot dystonia does not manifest itself or bother me when I am sitting or lying down. Hence, it does not affect my driving.         I use two canes when walking to help  me maintain my balance. My tongue dystonia does not interrfere with my driving although it caused me speech, chewing and swallowing difficulty. My illness has some features of Parkinson’s disease and examples of those symptoms are drooling, impaired speech and balance problem–all of which do not affect my driving. I am willing to take driving test for physically challenged people. I am not new to this kind of test. I was given a "Behind-the-wheel evaluation training program" by an Adaptive Driving Specialist from DMV after I completed my physical and speech therapy at Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation in 1993. I passed the test. The Adaptive Driving Specialist makes suggestions for changes/additions or adaptive measures for  cars of people with disabilities so they can continue to drive. My ADS said my car did not need any. Before I can take a new driving test, I need a doctor to certify that I am medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely. If I can’t   get one, I will lose my license by March 18, 1997. I don’t want to be homebound by being denied the privilege to drive. If I become homebound, I am sure my depression will become worse. I just sent my request to my neuro the medical examination report but I am not sure she will agree to accomplish it. I guess doctors are afraid of legal suits if something happens to somebody they certified as medically and physically able to drive a motor vehicle safely. Thank you all for your support and prayers. Ador Peralta

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I am on AOL and know how to "quote" when replying to e-mail but when in n/g it does not quote the same way; sorry) Hey, Bonnie. I’m on AOL too and have finally figured it out.  When in doubt, read the directions. If you want it to look like what you wrote above, click on Members, then Preferences, then Mail.  Take the ‘x’ off of "Use AOL style quotes."  Then, when you w I’m still contemplating on your idea of an AOL chat group.  There’s something that ‘doesn’t feel right’ about it but I don’t know what it is.  You, of course, Still getting over my p-neumonia but much better, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy." Mass General has chat rooms open all the time for neuro patients.  There is one reserved for movement disorders.  We can set up a time and meet there if anyone is interested.  No Ports, No servers , etc.   Easy on and eas off if it doesn’t work.  I’m availabe most times.  Any suggestions on meting times.?

And yet another suggestion, check out the new IRCing program called Orbit IRC. It’s very much a WYSIWYG program, all set out for you.  You can give each person a different colour or font, all kinds of neat stuff useable with just a click. It’s shareware and you can download it from their site.  Sorry, don’t have URL handy, but just do a search on it. Mally  :)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I am on AOL and know how to "quote" when replying to e-mail but when in n/g it does not quote the same way; sorry) Hey, Bonnie. I’m on AOL too and have finally figured it out.  When in doubt, read the directions. If you want it to look like what you wrote above, click on Members, then Preferences, then Mail.  Take the ‘x’ off of "Use AOL style quotes."  Then, when you w I’m still contemplating on your idea of an AOL chat group.  There’s something that ‘doesn’t feel right’ about it but I don’t know what it is.  You, of course, Still getting over my p-neumonia but much better, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

Mass General has chat rooms open all the time for neuro patients.  There is one reserved for movement disorders.  We can set up a time and meet there if anyone is interested.  No Ports, No servers , etc.   Easy on and eas off if it doesn’t work.  I’m availabe most times.  Any suggestions on meting times.? Catherine

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(I am on AOL and know how to "quote" when replying to e-mail but when in n/g it does not quote the same way; sorry)

Hey, Bonnie. I’m on AOL too and have finally figured it out.  When in doubt, read the directions. If you want it to look like what you wrote above, click on Members, then Preferences, then Mail.  Take the ‘x’ off of "Use AOL style quotes."  Then, when you want to quote … either in e-mail or n/gs … just highlight what you want and hit Reply.  BTW, this is called ‘Internet style quoting.’ I’m still contemplating on your idea of an AOL chat group.  There’s something that ‘doesn’t feel right’ about it but I don’t know what it is.  You, of course, are free to do what you want but you wouldn’t be ’sanctioned’ by DMRF or a.s.d. I don’t think.  Are  you having trouble with mIRC or, like for me, it’s almost too busy to follow and talk at the same time with all those people? Still getting over my p-neumonia but much better, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mally, bless you for the caring response to Ador about  her license and depression.  You said it all!! (I am on AOL and know how to "quote" when replying to e-mail but when in n/g it does not quote the same way; sorry) BTW, finally, met someone else with dystonia!!! Thru my dr., I have met another patient and had dinner with him and his wife Saturday.  What a joy for both of us. He is 62 with no computer and was fascinated by my telling him all I have found. You can be sure I will print some of these posts from a.s.d. to show him what a caring group can be found online. It really has helped my depression knowing every morning I can go to a.s.d. and "be" with others who truly know and understand. Love & Hugs,  Bonnie (hey, Texas is drying out!

Hi Bonnie!  I am so very glad that you have met another person with dystonia…it took me 40 years to find another!!  Just a slight correction if ya don’t mind!  Ador is a ‘he’, not a ’she’!  In fact I wonder how he is doing??  Ador, how about an update?? Later, MB

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