Question:

The answer is a maybe. It depends in part on whatever other medications she is taking, such as aspirin, or anything else. Look up the Physicians Desk Reference, latest or recent editions. If your local public library doesn’t have it, visit a medical library (hospital or medical school). You can also search on the internet. If your daughter is drinking herb teas, ginseng and ginko biloba contain a blood thinner (coumodin aka warfarin).  I developed this problem a few weeks back. this was due to the heart medicines I am taking. Using a water pick twice a day cleared up the problem for me.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My daughter has exercise induced asthma (she is on her high school track team) and has started Serevent (once daily) and Flovent (110, once/day) about 4 weeks ago. Could either of these cause bleeding of the gums?  The package insert of Serevent has "dental pain" and the Flovent has "dental problem". Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Pam

Response:

I had extreme reactions to serevent – like I was on super speed, even tho I can use ventolin with little effect. I almost lost my job I was so hyped up! But yes, also rinse after using any cortisone inhaler. ehansen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use Advair, the combo of Serevent & Flovent. My doctor told me to rinse with mouthwash after using or it can cause mouth sores. – Sounded fishy to me until I got one & that was with rinsing! It wasn’t on the gums, though and went away within a couple days. My doc told me to rinse longer. Now, I also brush after every dose and I haven’t a problem with that since.

Response:

I had extreme reactions to serevent – like I was on super speed, even tho I can use ventolin with little effect.

This is an interesting tidbit.  I have low blood pressure, low body temperature, and also sometimes have a problem with depression (around periods).  I noticed that I’m feeling much more alert since I’ve been on Advair — like it also changed something that was causing me to get fatigued easily (like not breathing).  Now I’m wondering if it’s just a drug effect on my nervous system rather than the breathing relief.  Anyone else with some information on this?  How can I tell, I wonder? I’ve been drinking water after using Advair, but now I’m wondering if I really should be brushing my teeth immediately after each use. –Jane

Response:

If your daughter is not using an Aerochamber, get one. Serevent caused me bad headaches. I’ve used Flovent for many years without any side effects. regards, Kurt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter has exercise induced asthma (she is on her high school track team) and has started Serevent (once daily) and Flovent (110, once/day) about 4 weeks ago. Could either of these cause bleeding of the gums?  The package insert of Serevent has "dental pain" and the Flovent has "dental problem". Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Pam

Response:

I use Advair, the combo of Serevent & Flovent. My doctor told me to rinse with mouthwash after using or it can cause mouth sores. – Sounded fishy to me until I got one & that was with rinsing! It wasn’t on the gums, though and went away within a couple days. My doc told me to rinse longer. Now, I also brush after every dose and I haven’t a problem with that since.

Response:

If she’s new to using an inhaler she could be getting medicine where it’s not intended to go in any significant quantity.  Getting most of the medicine into one’s lungs just takes practice.  The drill is to exhale completely, taking as long as necessary to force out all the air in the lungs.  Then start to inhaler and, just after you’ve started sucking in air, push the plunger on the inhaler while still inhaling hard. I find I often cough after I do this with no medication at all – it’s just the deep breathing that makes me cough – so I do one or two practice runs until I stop coughing before I take a "live" run with inhaler. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter has exercise induced asthma (she is on her high school track team) and has started Serevent (once daily) and Flovent (110, once/day) about 4 weeks ago. Could either of these cause bleeding of the gums?  The package insert of Serevent has "dental pain" and the Flovent has "dental problem". Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Pam

Response:

My daughter has exercise induced asthma (she is on her high school track team) and has started Serevent (once daily) and Flovent (110, once/day) about 4 weeks ago. Could either of these cause bleeding of the gums?  The package insert of Serevent has "dental pain" and the Flovent has "dental problem". Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Pam

Response:

My daughter has exercise induced asthma (she is on her high school track team) and has started Serevent (once daily) and Flovent (110, once/day) about 4 weeks ago. Could either of these cause bleeding of the gums?  The package insert of Serevent has "dental pain" and the Flovent has "dental problem". Any information would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Pam

Doubtful; however side effects from MDI inhalers can be greatly reduced by using a spacer, the Aerochamber is popular; and rinsing mouth with water after inhaling. Are you sure the bleeding is from the gums, and not further down? For example, sometimes heavy coughing can irritate the throat and cause some bleeding with traces of blood in the sputum. [tell your doctor] Maybe the dentist should take a look at the gums; my dentist recommended vit C supplements along with proper brushing. Ellis

Response:

Question:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

Response:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

I’m sure others will provide more details but anyway— the drugs singulair and accolate are leukotriene receptor antagonists.  That may seem a bit Greek but what they do is to compete with leukotrienes for the leukotriene binding site on the outside cell surface.  If the site is already complexed with singulair or accolate then the leukotriene can not bind and the cascade of events that would have followed does not occur.  There are some structural (chemical) differences in the antagonistic active ingredient of accolate and singulair.  They are not the same molecule although they fulfill the same function, hence two patents and two drugs.  Apparently the ability of the active ingredient to bind to the leukotriene receptor differs between the two.  That’s why singulair is one pill a day and accolate is twice a day.  Also, the leukotriene receptors are not identical in every individual, apparently there is some genetic diversity for their chemical structure.  That’s why some people are helped by one but not the other and why not everyone is helped by either of them (of course there are probably several other reasons also, like the cause of the inflammation that gets labeled asthma) .  From what I’ve seen here and from the package insert (I believe) accolate is degraded by the liver while singulair is not (anybody can step in here if they have a better understanding).  In fact I think I’ll quit before I get beyond my own understanding.  I hope someone corrects me if I have provided an incorrect view of their mechanism.

Response:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

Well, it’s probably safe to say that no one knows what the long-term side-effects are.  Generally these would be projected from animal studies where high concentrations are fed to the animals, hoping to accelerate any negative effects, and this approach has been reasonably reliable in most cases.  Such studies are in no way a sure thing, however, as has been demonstrated by the recall of several drugs recently. One advantage of leukotriene inhibitors, though, is that the drugs more accurately "target" the problem being treated than do steroids (which are something of a blunderbuss approach).

Response:

Question:

i hear alot of this "when i get better", "when i overcome this", "when i feel well"…. what about those of us who have chronic depression, who are born with it, in our genes…..just like alcoholism.. i guess we will never get over it.  i’ve been dealing with it for half of my life, and i’m only 23.  it’s like it’s permantly tattooed…. wait, in reality it is.  it’s even hard when you’re dealing with it on your own.  i’ve gone through the rollarcoaster ride of physically trying to overcome it on my own. after that, i’ve gone through all the rollercoaster rides of self medicating myself with drugs and booze.  after that, i went through the rollercoaster of hibernating myself from society.  after that, and still on the same rollercoaster ride of anti depressant meds….but this last ride i’ve been on hasn’t helped to be honest.  but i’m not giving up hope.  but they only seem to be screwing with my mind more.  if this rollercoaster comes to an end with no luck, THEN WHAT?  i’m getting nausuas with all this rollercoaster talk.  I guess i’m on a very bumpy shitty ride for the rest of my life.   I’m definetely going to stick with my last sober plan though, and just pray for a miracle.  I pray for anyone else out there that is going through this and feels alone.   at one point in my life things were ok.  but for crying out loud, i have a young son, i’m a loner, i’m out of work, i’m not in school and havent’ been for the longest time, i have no friends, i come from a broken family, damn the list goes on and on and on….HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO HAVE HOPE?  after hearing some of the stories in here, i wish i could be in some of your shoes believe me george

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i hear alot of this "when i get better", "when i overcome this", "when i feel well"…. what about those of us who have chronic depression, who are born with it, in our genes…..just like alcoholism.. i guess we will never get over it.  i’ve been dealing with it for half of my life, and i’m only 23.  it’s like it’s permantly tattooed…. wait, in reality it is.  it’s even hard when you’re dealing with it on your own.  i’ve gone through the rollarcoaster ride of physically trying to overcome it on my own. after that, i’ve gone through all the rollercoaster rides of self medicating myself with drugs and booze.  after that, i went through the rollercoaster of hibernating myself from society.  after that, and still on the same rollercoaster ride of anti depressant meds….but this last ride i’ve been on hasn’t helped to be honest.  but i’m not giving up hope.  but they only seem to be screwing with my mind more.  if this rollercoaster comes to an end with no luck, THEN WHAT?  i’m getting nausuas with all this rollercoaster talk.  I guess i’m on a very bumpy shitty ride for the rest of my life.   I’m definetely going to stick with my last sober plan though, and just pray for a miracle.  I pray for anyone else out there that is going through this and feels alone.   at one point in my life things were ok.  but for crying out loud, i have a young son, i’m a loner, i’m out of work, i’m not in school and havent’ been for the longest time, i have no friends, i come from a broken family, damn the list goes on and on and on….HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO HAVE HOPE?  after hearing some of the stories in here, i wish i could be in some of your shoes believe me george

I’ve also had chronic depression for most of my adult life.  It sucks, especially when rich, famous and/or high status people tell you to get your act together. Self-medicating with drugs/alcohol is very bad.  If it’s a real problem, AA or NA can be a vast help, and helps with providing hope. I’ve found David Burns’s books to be helpful, e.g. Feeling Good – the New Mood Therapy. Most antidepressants haven’t worked for me, but currently I’m on sibutramine Meridia/Reductil), which is a SNRI like venlafaxine (Effexor).  These are good medications for unresponsive chronic depression.  Sibutramine is now marketed as a weight reducing treatment, but was developed as an antidepressant. Exercise and walking very long distances daily (or almost daily) can help a great deal. I think it also helps a lot to bear in mind how fucked up modern-day society really is.  I mean it definitely is, much more than the media or most people talk about.  The media is, of course, a huge part of the problem.  In the medium to long term, there’ll be a huge change for the better in our civilisation.  It’s an inevitability, as part of a very clear historical cycle.  That gives one hope. Those of us with chronic depression just have to keep going and do the best we can to find positive treatments that will help us.

Response:

Question:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

Response:

That’s what you get with affirmative action.

Absolutely unbelievable. That’s a troll, right? Chuck Gould Float and let float.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes. — Harry Krause I think he needs to stand up and say if he thought the president were wrong on policy and issues, he ought to say where. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep

out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering

both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate

Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause

Thomas has always remained silent during oral arguments.  True in this hearing. true in all other hearings.   To make a negative assumption on that fact alone is ridiculous. To insult him is juvenile.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to

a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

You republithugs are really into violence… — Harry Krause The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I’ve looked at. I do not believe we’ve put a guilty … I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas. -GW Bush

Response:

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes.

And we have another justice who apparently rides to court on her broom. — Skipper

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there? If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Which bar admitted you, sweetie? — Skipper

Response:

First of all Harry, stop being such a racist, bigoted pig. Just because Justice Thomas doesn’t meet your (and most libs) idea of what an African-American should be(beholden to the new Massa-the Demonrat party) does not give you the right to utter such garbage. Secondly, you are not worthy to serve as the wiping device for Justice Thomas’ gluteal cleft. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

What a delight to be insulted by the rec.boats Queen of Head. — Harry Krause We’ll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers. -GW Bush

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS

I was thinking more along the lines of Sugar Ray Leonard versus Lennox Lewis. — Harry Krause This is still a dangerous world. It’s a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses. -GW Bush

Response:

Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years

of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely.<< — Lu Powell Maybe he has Benign Essential Tremor.  It’s harmless, and doesn’t progress into anything serious.

Response:

<SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause

The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Poor Hairy. Must be terribly frustrating, being perfect in such an imperfect world…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence…

That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS —

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got

into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

Nope…I haven’t winterized but once in 15 years. Had the boat out on Saturday, in fact. However, I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years…I’ve accepted an offer on her. Saturday was actually the sea trial…survey is scheduled for Wednesday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< —

Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< — Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day.

Response:

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day. …buy a boat?

I HAVE a boat…at least until the sale closes. A friend at work boat a repo at auction, and had a great deal of fun getting it back into good condition.

Peter, I spent the last 4 years turning a boat I bought in non-running and unihabitable condition into the boat you now see on her website. In fact, when he was done, he was sort of bored — their wasn’t enough to do.

Which is at least one of the reasons I’ve sold it. He sold it, and is looking for another.

Imagine how bored he’d be if he he no longer goes to work every day either.   However, I’m just in transition…exploring opportunities. This too shall pass. Peggie http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/

Response:

Question:

My 80 year old farther(in pretty good shape looks more like 65) has bouts of depression…last time lasted 2 months and had to move in  with me and my family.Finnaly got off zanax(very unpleasent) , now will start on prozac???He doesn’t seem tolerante to these medications…sometimes making him worse.Depression started in again about a week ago…any good results with anything..including prozac?Bill

Xanax is a benzodiazepine, in the same class of drugs as Valium. It is commonly used to treat anxiety disorders, including anxiety due to depression However, ALL benzodiazepines are very sedating, and they should not be used for treatment of depressive disorders without anxiety. Prozac (fluoxetine) and Zoloft (sertraline) are Selective Serotonin Receptor uptake Inhibitors (SSRI’s) These constitute a newer class of antidepressants with greater specificity and proportedly lower incidence of side-effects, but YMMV. Since up to a third of diabetics (with studies ranging from 20 – 50%) will develop symptoms of depression during their lifetimes, depression is not uncommon and may respond to the right drug or combination of drugs for treatment of the depression. Parenthetically, Tricyclic anitdepressants (TCA) like Elavil (ami ryptaline), Desipramine (norpramine) and Imipramine (Tofranil) have also been effectively used to manage pain due to peripheral diabetic neuropathy. Hope things go well for Dad.

Response:

Your information about the seratonin receptors, Prozac and Zoloft was most interesting.  You say, one third of all diabetics suffer from depression. Would this account for "black moods"?  Moods that seem to make one snappy and irritable?  Would that constitue depression or just a borderline kind of thing one needs to live with?  Are there any nonmedicational prescriptions that are just as effective. If on Prozac, do people tend to become more conscientious about taking care of themselves. I tend to find that there is a cycle at play.  Feeling bad, overeating, raised sugars, feeling irritable, eating, etc. What are your thoughts?  Is Prozac effective incombating some of these cyclic problems?  Do you find that Prozac or Zoloft is effective in helping with relationships. The family is taking quite a beating.

Response:

<snip He doesn’t seem tolerante to these medications…sometimes making him worse.Depression started in again about a week ago…any good results with anything..including prozac?Bill

Karen Knox Responds: I have had good luck with zoloft, which is a cousin to prozac.  I did have some naseau at first and jumped between being tired and jittery. I am now taking my 150 mgs in the am which allows me to sleep at night. Not all have this good experiemce.  I have taken Pamelor and had good results, but the side effects were very hard for me (dry mouth) because I teach.  Good luck. Karen Knox in chilly Maine

Response:

My 80 year old farther(in pretty good shape looks more like 65) has bouts of depression…last time lasted 2 months and had to move in  with me and my family.Finnaly got off zanax(very unpleasent) , now will start on prozac???He doesn’t seem tolerante to these medications…sometimes making him worse.Depression started in again about a week ago…any good results with anything..including prozac?Bill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am s depressed. Can someone help me? I am reading Diabetis For Dummies. It is a good book but so depressing. I can not keep my glucose under control. Yes, it is depressing, no different than dealing with any other chronic health problems. I *strongly* urge you to either find or start a support/social group with other diabetics in your area. Having access to that kind of accumilated wisdom is great and inspiring, but sometimes you just need a hug from someone who’s been there, and you can’t get that from the Usenet. I read if you’ve had one heart attack you have a 80% chance of having another within 5 years. I’ve gon 4 and a half. Does that mean I only have 6 mths left? Please help me. My father has had two heart transplants, about two years apart. After the second one, he was told that he likely had only seven years to live (the typical expectency for someone having a transplant and already on anti-rejection medication.) That was almost 13 years ago, and he is still very much alive, healthy and (to my great happiness) spending his children’s inheritence with abandon The statistics are merely *averages*. For every three people who have a second heart attack within five years, there is one who has it sooner and one who has it latter. There are people who, because of changes in their lifestyles, NEVER have a second. Certainly you’ve learned the drill from your reading, so repeat after me: "I will NOT have seconds. I will NOT have seconds…."

Hello, I’m new to the group but have some input on your subject.  As to the Depression, if it lasts more than a week or so seek professional help.  I know as I am a Manic/Depressive (BiPolar I) and I have an Anxiety Disorder.  These I’ve been treated for over 6 years now and its under control. I just found out 8 months ago I was a Type II Diabetic, tried several of the pills but they didn’t agree with my IBC (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) so I take Humulin N injections 1x a day.  At the beginning this started to depress me but with the help of my therapist and a positive attitude that it was just another bump in the road of life I have accepted my condition. As to worrying about another heart attach, well my father died about 3 days after his 48th birthday of heart disease and from the age of 30 to 47 I worried about it or thought about it almost every day.  I’m now 48 1/2 and realize that all that worry was for nothing.  I enjoy each day as though it might be my last.  Treat others as I would like to be treated, go to Mass regularly and try to follow my doctors advice as well as educate myself on my various illness’s. Your on your way with the education part, now just accept you have it and learn to deal with it. "The Internet is like a giant jellyfish. You can’t step on it. You can’t go around it. You’ve got to get through it."                                 -John Evans TIA & Regards, Tom  

Question:

First, you should never ever stop taking your meds "cold turkey"  You must be weened off by your doc. I quit taking zoloft after I was in remission and then I started on a downward spiral. I’m back on thank God. I don’t know how long you took them , but it can take up to several months to feel an effect. Regardless, if it is not working, your doc can help you switch to something else. Lia

Response:

I had no side effects with Dothiepin except cotton-mouth. My friend was on mega-doses of Doxepin as well with no major side effects except for yours but he was able to counter it with a fibre supplement. The *tryptyline drugs are some of the older tricyclics, maybe a newer one would work without the problems. Still, getting a doctor to prescibe it can be an issue. I argued with mine about it but she seems sold on the SSRI’s. The point is moot now as I haven’t had anything for months. Regards, Trevor Ida Kern <clooney…@mindspring.com

wrote in message

news:7if9pn$jv4$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Trevor Lampre <tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote in message

> > I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part > > of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics

mentioned much in terms of OCD. Me neither. However, one of the best drugs I have ever taken has been Pamelor (Nortriptyline), which is a tricylic. I slept well and ate well and did

not

obsess. Unfortunately, it’s major side effect was that it prevented me from taking

a

healthy constitutional! I tried everything I could think of to stay on

this

medicine but the side effects overwhelmed me and I had to switch to a

SSRI.

They help, but I loved the Pamelor. Ida

Response:

Trevor Lampre <tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote in message I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD.

Me neither. However, one of the best drugs I have ever taken has been Pamelor (Nortriptyline), which is a tricylic. I slept well and ate well and did not obsess. Unfortunately, it’s major side effect was that it prevented me from taking a healthy constitutional! I tried everything I could think of to stay on this medicine but the side effects overwhelmed me and I had to switch to a SSRI. They help, but I loved the Pamelor. Ida

Response:

hugs wrapped in a hug: ( kbeth (kb…@asan.com) wrote:

: *HUGS* : -kbeth    ) : On Tue, 25 May 1999 01:34:47 GMT, jl…@gte.com wrote: :

:

Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s

:

helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I

:

know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been

:

totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago,

:

too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I

:

really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had

:

some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some

:

reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the

:

depression seems more overwhelming these days).

:

:

My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I

:

*begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ).

:

:

Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do.

:

:

Lisa

— —————————————————— some people say I got no patience. I got lots of patience. I can wait all day for someone else to Brew the Coffee….

Response:

In article <374a0b6…@news.camtech.net.au

, "Trevor Lampre"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<tlam…@camtech.net.au

wrote: Zoloft is an antidepressant so in stopping taking it you have exposed yourself to a downhill slide. The Zoloft might not have been helping with the OCD but it probably was helping the depression. The SSRI’s are strange drugs. They are very selective in how they affect different people, what works for one may not work for another. I confounded my GP with my complaints about the side effects of Zoloft, Luvox and Serzone. I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD. Interactions with doctors are just as problematic. Having a sense of trust and rapport with your therapist is important. I had seen two counselors over the years before my current one. They were as thick as two short planks and I didn’t see them for long. You are quite right to stop seeing one you don’t get on with but please make an effort to find a new one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. If the Zoloft wasn’t worsening your OCD but did help with the depression I’d say to stay on it until you get new medical advice. Go and see a GP (or whoever does this sort of thing where you are) and discuss a change of med. If you still had anxiety you might want to add an anxiolytic such as Xanax to the Zoloft mix or perhaps switch to Luvox but discuss it with a doctor first. Switching meds can be hard. You normally have to wait a week or two depending on your dosage levels to get the old drug out of your system before starting a new one and then it takes a couple of weeks for the new one to have an effect. Regards, Trevor <jl…@gte.com wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Additionally, it is said that it takes 2-3 months on the SSRI’s to see OCD relief…I don’t know how long you’ve been on it, but it may pay to stay on if the side effects are not bad, as it is helping your depression now and could very well help your OCD later… — Charles Phipps cphi…@roadhog.com

Response:

Hi it doesn’t sound like a too good idea to me to AND quit the therapist AND the meds at the same time. I have no idea how long you’d been on the Zoloft but it takes long time for SSRI’s to be efficient on OCD symptoms, most people mention at least 10 weeks on the proper dosage… Also it might not be the proper SSRI, it took me three trials before actually finding something (Luvox) that seem to be working. I know how very difficult it all is. If you have OCD you should get in touch with the OCD Foundation (they have a Web site with all kind of infos on how to reach them etc…) and ask them for the adress of a trained CBT therapist near you. I don’t know what your symptms are but talk therapy doesn’t do much for OCD. I have been in talk therapy for over 2 years, even though it has given me some insight on some other problems, it didn’t help at all the OCD. Hang in there, it’s tough but you can get better, Cecile – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jl…@gte.com

wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

Hi Lisa From my personnal experience I know that it takes about 10 weeks for the medication to start working and I know that it seems like forever. Hang in there.  Yes I think that it is very important to find a good therepist.  Make sure they deal with ocd.  Don’t give up because of one person I know there is someone who can help you.  It helped me to chat in support groups and talk to others dealing with the same problems.  You will feel better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and when you do, you will get so much more joy out of life than ever before! Take Care

Response:

Zoloft is an antidepressant so in stopping taking it you have exposed yourself to a downhill slide. The Zoloft might not have been helping with the OCD but it probably was helping the depression. The SSRI’s are strange drugs. They are very selective in how they affect different people, what works for one may not work for another. I confounded my GP with my complaints about the side effects of Zoloft, Luvox and Serzone. I liked good old Dothiepin for depression but it’s no longer part of the in-crowd as it is a tricyclic not an SSRI. I’ve not seen tricyclics mentioned much in terms of OCD. Interactions with doctors are just as problematic. Having a sense of trust and rapport with your therapist is important. I had seen two counselors over the years before my current one. They were as thick as two short planks and I didn’t see them for long. You are quite right to stop seeing one you don’t get on with but please make an effort to find a new one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. If the Zoloft wasn’t worsening your OCD but did help with the depression I’d say to stay on it until you get new medical advice. Go and see a GP (or whoever does this sort of thing where you are) and discuss a change of med. If you still had anxiety you might want to add an anxiolytic such as Xanax to the Zoloft mix or perhaps switch to Luvox but discuss it with a doctor first. Switching meds can be hard. You normally have to wait a week or two depending on your dosage levels to get the old drug out of your system before starting a new one and then it takes a couple of weeks for the new one to have an effect. Regards, Trevor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<jl…@gte.com

wrote in message news:374bfc28.2519205@news.gte.net… Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

*HUGS* -kbeth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 25 May 1999 01:34:47 GMT, jl…@gte.com wrote:

Well, I quit taking Zoloft last week because I don’t feel like it’s helping me that much (been wondering if I need a different SSRI). I know it takes awhile for it to get out of the system, but I’ve been totally nuts ever since. I quit seeing my therapist about 6 weeks ago, too — I just did not like her at all (she didn’t "care", IMO). I really, really need to find a good therapist — this past weekend had some very, very dark moments.  I feel very depressed for some reason (as opposed to being anxious — which I still am, but the depression seems more overwhelming these days). My husband talked me into starting back on the Zoloft today (after I *begged* him this morning not to go to work today (( ). Just venting I guess — I know there’s nothing anyone can do. Lisa

Response:

Question:

Has anybody been on Effexor? I have been on it since November and I have recently figured out it is the cause of the strange symptoms I’ve been having. I have been bothered by mouth ulcers that make eating and drinking almost anything painful. I also get very hot with the least little bit of exertion. And it also was part of the cause of the strange dreams I was having, as well as the dizziness. I think the Effexor along with the Ginko Balboa I was trying did not do well together. Since I stopped taking the Ginko Balboa, neither one has bothered me as bad. Anyway, my question is: has anyone taken Effexor? I need to know how to taper off, because I hear the withdrawl can be bad. I was taking 225mg and have gone down to 150mg, as of two days ago, but am afraid to cut back anymore. I have a job and a family, and I don’t need to hallucinate or be sick right now! If anyone has any advice I’d appreciate it. Michele

Response:

Hi Michelle I was just prescribed this wonder drug ang I was so dizzy and sick to my stomach so I cut my per down to 1/2 a pill twice a day.It was prescribed for neurogenic pain and muscle spasms.I wanted Neurontin but the doc said this had less side effects!As far as I can see,all it is,is an antidepressant.What did you get it prescribed for?225 mg is the maximum dosage.Your doctor really started you off with a bang. What do you think is a better alternative? Carol — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

the smart thing to do is to call your doctor. you shouldnt be looking to non-medical people for such important info! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Be Well, Lisa anti-spam in effect. remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The dope’s that there’s still hope." – Bruce Springsteen @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it while I was waiting for him to call me back. Michele

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it

while I was waiting for him to call me back.

I just quit.  Didn’t suffer for it.  Were there more specific questions you have? Dabrinah

Response:

Question:

Hi Richard: I have the same thing as your wife!! I have had it for 5 years and it was originally caused from taking too much decongestant which caused insomnia. The worse my insomnia gets, the worse the jerks get and I can get days of 1 hr sleep a night. WHen it originally started I collapsed at work from fatigue and was diagnosed with panic disorder. I have successfully treated it with medications over the last 5 years. WHen I have to change meds for various reasons (wt gain, fatigue, etc) and/or during periods of no medication it comes back after a couple of nights of bad sleep. I had a sleep study done in the summer and it showed sleep terrors and I was told that the jerking was called hypnic (sp?) jerks. I also have hypnogogic hallucinations where I am partially awake and see trolls,and such, running around my room until I’m fully awake. Everyone is different with meds but I have found that Doxepin worked great within two days. Also Paxil, xanax, nortriptyline and now I am on zopiclone (Imovane here in Canada).For me I HAVE to be on medication, self-help things do absolutely nothing once I get the jerks. Drugs that did NOT work for me are clonazepam (though it is indicated for RLS and sleep terrors), Prozac, Effexor, Manerix. I am also on Luvox(fluvoxamine) now which does not help my sleep yet. I have been on the Imovane (3.75-7.5 mg) for about 6 weeks and just recently I have found it to be less effective. How long has your wife been on it and has it maintained its effectivesness? What dose is she on and how often? I was supposed to take it every second day but the day in between I was sleepless so now I am on it nightly. Has she had a sleep study done? In article <36930565.1…@bt.com

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  richard.ingles…@bt.com wrote:

Help for my Wife We live in a small village in the UK. I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks  often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all. Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again. The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night. Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress. If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

richard inglesant wrote:

We live in a small village in the UK.

You’ll be happy to know that there appear to be some excellent support groups in the UK for people suffering from sleep disorders.  Hopefully, one of the other members has that pointer readily available… (Sorry I don’t have it at the moment).

I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all.

Richard, please understand, suggestions we can offer are purely based on our experience, not medical knowledge.  However, with that disclaimer, you might want to look into two different possible problems: RLS – Restless Leg Syndrome … describes the problem some people have while awake.  (Generally their legs tend to ‘bounce’ as if restless – without the individual being fully aware of the movement). PLMD – Periodic Leg Movement Disorder … describes periodic leg movements during sleep, which cause the individual to jerk awake.  Often the jerk does not fully awaken the individual, but does cause the individual to not have restful sleep. For many people these jerks only exhibit themselves as jerks in the leg. However, these jerks can be severe enough to impact the entire body. Sometimes I hear sound associated with the jerks. Pointers on where to find out more are below.

Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again.

Yup.  Not comfortable and can cause a great deal of anxiety.

The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night.  Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress.

Unfortunately, (as I understand it) medication is about the only way to gain some release from these symptoms.  I do not know if the medication she is taking is targeted to relieve the symptoms or merely induce sleep.

If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

You might want to discuss the possibility of Restless Leg Syndrome, or Periodic Leg Movement Disorder with her doctor.  Again, though the names imply only leg movements, it can impact the entire body.  I sometimes feel as if someone has delivered a strong electric shock to my system…  Not fun. You might want to look at the following web sites:   1.  Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation, Inc.    http://www.rls.org   2.  Southern California RLS Support Group       http://surf.to/rls Hope this helps some.  Other members in the newsgroup should be able to provide information about the medication they use, and possibly even about the medication your wife is taking.  But our experience is no substitute for discussing this with a healthcare professional who can help her with her sleep disorder (not just drugging her to sleep). Regards, =jbf= John B. Fisher

Response:

Help for my Wife We live in a small village in the UK.   I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks  often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all. Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again. The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night. Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress. If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

Response:

I have sleep apnea so can’t offer eprsonal experience but here is a link to a great site that deals with a myriad of sleep disorders and restless legs syndrome is one I believe. http://www.sleepedu.net/forums/apnea/apneainf.html = = = = = For information regarding Tracheostomy and the treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea please visit http://members.aol.com/citylinc/osa/index.htm = = = = = A great sleep forum http://www.sleepedu.net/forums/apnea/apneainf.html

Response:

Question:

Perhaps we could start with defining self-worth, and considering evolutionary roots leading to it, or how it is seen (or not seen) in lower animals. Below is a suggestion of the meaning of "self worth."  There are needs for certain aspects of belonginness.  Perhaps self-worth would include an assessment of the probability of their being met.  Perhaps this would also include an assessment of one’s "deservingness" of their being met, or in other words, an absence of shame or guilt. We might also consider that there may be brain based templates for such things as shame or guilt, such that if they are stimulated, or their conditions met, an unpleasant feeling is generated, which has the effect of modifying behavior. (more)

 :–  :                            Rational Negativism:  :               A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder  :  :Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for  :   love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,  :   purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,  :   suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e.,  :to  :   synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the  :   question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism  :   expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the  :survivalistically  :   bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’  : If we view nature films of animals which live in groups, we find the existence of a heirarchy in many of them.  Often that heirarchy is constantly shifting, and is frequently re-ordered.  Sometimes, an individual is on the low end so often, he becomes a permanently low-status member.  He is fearful, and doesn’t even dare to challenge a higher-status member. Since the capacity for this behavior is species-wide, there must be templates for those behaviors involved.  Certainly, one can not impose them on reptiles, or solitary animals like certain cats.  Coincidentally, those seem to be the same animals which are prone to domestication. What are those templates?  How about feelings, such as shame, guilt, fear, a feeling of "less than," of being impressed with another who is "more than." In other words, feelings of a lack of self-worth.  And why do some individuals strive to change the pecking order?  Because those feelings are unpleasant, and they wish for them to be lost.  The way to lose those feelings is to increase one’s status, and with an absence of shame and fear, one has a greater feeling of self-worth. Viewing this in an evolutionary way, why would it happen?  For one thing, a group is more efficient in meeting its needs if it is organized.  For another, lower status enhances cooperation.  And it may be that the higher status individuals breed more often, passing along the genes of the stronger members of the group more frequently than those of the weaker ones. Thus, it is advantageous that the lower ones should strive for higher status, as a test of their potential for ancestry of a future group.  And it may be advantageous if the bolder ones lead the group in defending against intruders. Consequently, we have negative feelings and if not opposite feelings, then at least the absence of the negative ones. There is also an element of confidence.  With confidence, one feels that his behavior is likely to produce a desired result.  And he feels that he has the personal ability to carry out the behaviors.   Consequently, he is more likely to act when he is unable to know the outcome, than would a less confident individual.  Feelings of self-worth seem to be necessary for one to have confidence, and energy to carry out a plan. With the problem of bipolar disorder, this mechanism seems to go astray. The person attains such high confidence, he gambles on high risk propositions.  He has the energy to do a lot of work, and may be aggressive without purpose, as if he were at the top of a pack. Then he swings toward the opposite end, and lacks all confidence, lacks all energy, as if he were at the very bottom.  Is it possible that bipolar disorder means that existing templates for feelings and behavior are being triggered without environmental information which generally does that?  :Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is  :   also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to  :   extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate  :monks,  self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.).  : We have imposed culture upon our biological nature.  Where other creatures might be satisfied to find a place within a small pack, humans overlay their learning on this impulse, and seek through displays of wealth or education to gain the esteem of others, to bolster their self-esteem.  They may be holier than thou, humbler than thou, stronger or more beautiful, wherever they might find their niche.  Their learning may communicate to them that better means more powerful or more envied, or that better means more right.  :Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability  :(i.e.,  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth).  :  :Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination  :   of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)  :   to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,  :   these more global concerns and values can themselves become  :   reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective  :   considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional  :   disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from  :   precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can  :   reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from  :   one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well.  : Negative information can cause negative feelings, but negative feelings can also cause all information to seem negative.  There is also a theory that depression has an evolutionary survival function. There was an observation of I think, some perigrene falcons, which mate for life.  The female did not return to the nest, and the male waited for her until he starved to death.  It was concluded that this was not helpful to the species, and therefore, depression was a fluke of nature. However, what would have happened if he had eventually concluded that she was not returning, and he was hungry and needed to find a meal?  Possibly the behavior of mating for life would have been weakened, which is connected to the survival of that species.  So if that happened a lot, and such birds passed along their genes and increased in number, the behavior may have diminished or disappeared, together with its survival function. So a very strong motivation to be loyal to the partner to the very end, possibly contributes to the survival of that species.  Consequently, depression is not without its function there (assuming the bird was depressed, of course.)  :Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some  :   explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would  :   seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating  :   different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,  :   emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction  :   resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed  :   by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons  :of  :   common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally  :   disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,  :   devaluing experience, etc.  :  :Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed  :   to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for  :   self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way  :of  :   attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational  :   faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first  :"free-thinking"  :   artifact is probably going to be a diesel.  : Huh?  :  :   "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size:  :an  :   injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from  :   without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which  :   eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is  :sufficiently  :   increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will  :   very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is  :destroyed.  :   Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing).  :  :  :Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed  :   amounts to the contention that the most rational species  :   (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the  :   formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via  :   intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can  :reasonably  :   be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of  :   Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned  :   artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why  :a  :   question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally  :   Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it  :   presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a  :   question which can only be addressed in comparative  :   (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm,  :etc.).  : There are some games, including the prisoner’s dilemma, which generally result in irrationality.  There is also a bird which has a behavior of tearing down its neighbor’s nest.  The bird has several choices.  1.) Spend all his time guarding what part of his nest is built, 2.) Look for new … read more »

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–                             Rational Negativism:                A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for    love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,    purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,    suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e., to    synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the    question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism    expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the survivalistically    bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’ Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is    also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to    extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate monks,    self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.). Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability (i.e.,    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth). Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination    of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)    to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,    these more global concerns and values can themselves become    reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective    considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional    disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from    precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can    reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from    one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well. Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some    explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would    seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating    different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,    emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction    resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed    by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons of    common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally    disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,    devaluing experience, etc. Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed    to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for    self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way of    attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational    faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first "free-thinking"    artifact is probably going to be a diesel.    "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size: an    injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from    without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which    eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is sufficiently    increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will    very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is destroyed.    Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing). Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed    amounts to the contention that the most rational species    (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the    formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via    intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can reasonably    be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of    Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned    artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why a    question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally    Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it    presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a    question which can only be addressed in comparative    (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm, etc.).      Along these same lines, the theory can also be construed as an    endorsement or metajustification for comparative approaches in    epistemology (explanationism, plausiblism, etc.)    "The short answer [to Lucas/Godel and more recently, Penrose]     is that, although it is established that there are limitations to the    powers of any particular machine, it has only been stated, without    any sort of proof, that no such limitations apply to human intellect "    (A. M. Turing).    "So even if mathematicians are superb cognizers of mathematical    truth, and even if there is no algorithm, practical or otherwise,    for cognizing mathematical truth, it does not follow that the power    of mathematicians to cognize mathematical truth is not entirely    explicable in terms of their brain’s executing an algorithm.  Not    an algorhithm for intuiting mathematical truth —  we can suppose that    Penrose [via Godel] has proved that there could be no such thing.      What would the algorithm be for, then?  Most plausibly it would be an    algorithm — one of very many — for trying to stay alive … " (D. C.    Dennett). Oops!  Sorry!  Wrong again, old bean.      "My ruling passion is the love of literary fame" (David Hume).    "I have often felt as though I had inherited all the defiance and all the    passions with which our ancestors defended their Temple and could    gladly sacrifice my life for one great moment in history" (Sigmund    Freud).    "He, too [Ludwig Wittgenstein], suffered from depressions and for long    periods considered killing himself because he considered his life    worthless, but the stubbornness inherited from his father may have    helped him to survive" (Hans Sluga).    "The inquest [Alan Turing's] established that it was suicide.  The    evidence was perfunctory, not for any irregular reason, but because    it was so transparently clear a case" (Andrew Hodges) —                Phil Roberts, Jr. Feelings of Worthlessness and So-Called Cognitive Science         http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5476

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Question:

Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

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Zoloft is an SSRI type anti-depresant.  Xanax is a Benzo.  Difference is Xanax is fast acting, and wears off quickly.  Zoloft is more preventitive (in other words you can not take it per needed basis, you must take it everyday).  It takes several weeks to see full benefit, and the results for everyone may vary.  I will not even begin to go into the side effects, but if you want more info on that you can do a search at deja news for zoloft. I would suggest trying the Zoloft in conjunction with the Xanax if you want to.  What you may find over time that you can ween off of the xanax, or use it per needed basis.  What you are going to find is ssri’s work for some, but not for all.  YMMV, and IMO. Good Luck. d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

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Philippa lomax schreef: Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

Xanax is a benzodiazepine (a so-called minor tranquillizer). Its anxiolyutic effects are undisputed. It can be taken *as needed* por as a maintenance med. Also a combo with another, longer-acting benzo like Klonopin works well for many people and Xanax can also be combined with an antidepressant of whatever type and often is. Benzo’s have mainly some drowsiness in the beginning as side effect.Zoloft is a SSRI-type antidepressant. These antidepressants work for anxiety/panic as well, as PAD and depression are sort of cousins, chemically. Unlike benzo’s which have immediate effect, with the SSRI’s (which block the reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin so that you have enough of it at the right time at the right place, to be very simplistic about it) you need to give them between 3-8 weeks to be able to evaluate their effects. In the first few weeks your symptoms may worsen as your body adjust to the med. Therefore it is necessary to start at a real low dose and slowly raise it to therapeutic level which is a personal matter of trial and error. Often a benzo is added in these first weeks and this combo can also be taken long-term. A very unpleasant side effect of most SSRI’s with most people is sexual dysfunction. If I were you (but I’m not and I’m also not a doctor) I would try and see if raising my Xanax dose and taking it as a maintenance med (taking 4-5 times a day, say, .5 mgs = 2.5 mgs in total while average therapeutic dosage is 2-5 mgs) won’t do the trick for me. If it wouldn’t I would start to think about a combo. I feel that it is important to start out with just one med (so that you know for sure that the results are from that particular med) and to give it a full trial. YMMV etc. Philip

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Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?

Dear Pip,   I don’t know the medical terms for the meds, but I do know that they are two different drugs.   I take Zoloft everyday and it has helped restore my pre-panic disorder disposition. (Which was pretty nice.)   I only take the Xanax when I push to travel (still have some problems with distance from home, but is much better. I now can go 20 miles from home.) Anyway, the Xanax just takes the edge off.   If you have an opportunity to try Zoloft, go for it. It really does help.   All the best.                            Sharon

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Dear Sharon, I am interested to know how much Zoloft and Xanax you take each day.My MD has suggested  I take 100mg a day of Zoloft, along with 0.5mg of Xanax 4 – 5 times a day for panic attacks and anxiety.  I would appreciate any feedback from you.  Thanks for your help.

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