Question:

Actually, you would be better off using herbs.  I’m not saying you should stop using your asthma inhalants, but take the herbs in addition to… After about a month, you will notice that you don’t really need all of the medication that you are taking. I have had asthma for fifty-two of my fifty-three years.

Response:

currently, i am using flovent 110 mcg,2 puffs twice daily, serevent 2 puffs twice daily, and a nebulizer w/albuterol as needed. side effects from the flovent include sleeplessnes,  tremendous headaches that i am unable to remedy w/any medication, mood swings, and bruises that show up all over-with no injury to cause them. these occur when taking as little as 1 puff of the flovent 110 mcg, twice daily. my question is this, am i better off continuing the flovent and suffering the side effects; or, would i be better off avoiding all triggers, thereby curtailing the asthma attacks?

Avoiding triggers as much as possible is always a good idea.  So is going to your doctor, pointing out the side effects and lack of asthma control you are having, and trying another of the several medicines in the same class as Flovent to see if one of them works better. Chris Owens

Response:

      You mentioned using herbs…can you be a little more specific and mention the names of some of the herbs you have used, and what they help you with?       Thanks. *                                 *                         o                (((—O—)))   o         *                *                             *           * *                      *        *                                      O

Response:

Actually, you would be better off using herbs.  I’m not saying you should stop using your asthma inhalants, but take the herbs in addition to… After about a month, you will notice that you don’t really need all of the medication that you are taking. I have had asthma for fifty-two of my fifty-three years.

Let’s see, the difference between an herb and a formulary medication is:  The formulary is of known content, dosage, and purity.  The herb isn’t.  So, in addition to having a life-threatening illness, you are proposing that I play dosage/content roulette?  NO, thank you! Chris Owens

Response:

currently, i am using flovent 110 mcg,2 puffs twice daily, serevent 2 puffs twice daily, and a nebulizer w/albuterol as needed. side effects from the flovent include sleeplessnes,  tremendous headaches that i am unable to remedy w/any medication, mood swings, and bruises that show up all over-with no injury to cause them. these occur when taking as little as 1 puff of the flovent 110 mcg, twice daily. my question is this, am i better off continuing the flovent and suffering the side effects; or, would i be better off avoiding all triggers, thereby curtailing the asthma attacks? any information will be greatly appreciated. thanks! je meyer

Response:

Question:

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy related sinus congestion.

Response:

I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy

related

sinus congestion.

Response:

Many allergists and ENTs have prescribed it for that for years, even without FDA approval for it ("off-label"). I’ve been prescribed it several times, for rhinitis. Recently I started taking it again. To tell the truth, I’m really not sure if it is helping me at all or not. (Sometimes it’s hard to know. You think–"I might be worse if I wasn’t taking this".) Anyone here noticed definitive results from it? Are there any published controlled double-blind studies on using it for rhinitis? (I guess there would have to be, if in fact the FDA has approved it for that purpose.) Anyone know where one can read the studies? Can’t regular Singulair use over years have negative effects on the liver? What if one takes both Singulair and acetaminophen regularly? "Joy" <n…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:cy5U9.5794$Qr4.558783@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. > "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

> news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… > > Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy > related > > sinus congestion.

Response:

Question:

On 17 Jan 2004 20:01:09 -0800, goyg…@aol.com (goygirl) wrote:

Today my NP called me and told me that the CT was abnormal and that I have either nasal polyps and or cysts (3) and she is referring me to an ENT specialist. Today was the happiest and most hopeful day I have had in my life!!!! She is dubious about this being the casuse of all my suffering but I am not.  This must be the answer, please let it be. I have read alot in the last 12 hours and I believe this must be it.  I cannot go on like this much longer and I have been a terrible father and husband for a long time now, Finally, my question fot the group.  Now what???  Should I just go with whatever course of action this unknown Dr. suggests??

*If* they recommend surgery, I would not go right away with a randomly-chosen surgeon. Because surgery is a major thing, and can *occasionally* go wrong, and is a bit of an art, I would first see also other sinus surgeons, including one or two at a major University medical center, preferably including a conservative one such as Mayo.   You can easily do this under the guise of getting "second opinions." Find them yourself though, not via asking your current doctors for names. Then, *if* you still want surgery, go with the most experienced one.  They will all be glad to see you becasue sinus surgery is *big dollars*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am really desperate for some relief (I even posted on the net for the first time)  I dont want to be anything less than aggresive with this problem which has caused me to suffer for so long.

Response:

Have you read about the "upside down sinus flooding" with peroxide/ baking soda and kosher salt for dealing with sinus disease? If you want to follow along with other sinus sufferers who are finding some relief using it, and read the documentation check out the forum at Healthboards at: http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210 The shortness of breath after going to bed is not normally considered a "sinus condition". I get it. I let a sinus infection go too long without treatment, and it caused me to become over sensitive to things that I was only slightly allergic to before, like cotton. When I lie in bed, my heart get irritated and starts to palpitate, and I’ll get shortness of breath. If I lie on my leather recliner without sheets or blankets, my heart remains stable. ===

Larry, you wrote: "My symptoms were as follows

 1. headache over my eyes from about 2-4 hours after awakening lasting the entire day and night  2. shortness of breath (this just started recently) only in the evening until  sleep  3.  dizziness, slight nausea  4.  facial pain (I have only recently learned to distinguish this from a headache)<===

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -goygirl wrote:

I need help and advice with a very serious problem.  For about 28 months now, I have had moderate to severe headaches and facial pain. I believed that this stemmed from an unsatisfactory lasik procedure and two dissapointing enhancements that followed shortly thereafter.  I encountered boursts of severe pain in the eye in question as well, so I naturally assumed that this was the cause.  I saw 3 lasik specialists and they could find nothing that would cause this pain.  I was angry and depressed.  I have been healthy my whole life and now this pain, every day, and it seemed I had chosen it.  About six to eight months ago, the eye pain stopped, but the headaches and the facial pain persisted. I found that no OTC pain med helped me but percocet taken in small doses did take away most of the pain.  OK, if noone could help me, I would address the issue with medication.  I was concerned with becoming addicted to the drug, but not concerned enough to stop, the pain was too much. I had a brain MRI and went to a couple of doctors but nothing.  

Who ordered the MRI?  What type of doctors did you see?  Did you ever see a qualified neurologist? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I was becoming more and more depressed and taking it out on my wife and kid.  I decided to rededicate myself to finding out what was wrong. Finally, a nurse practicioner at my Drs office suggested I have a CT of my sinus last week and I did.  I was  not very hopeful because I didnt seem to have any nasal congestion and almost never get a cold or the flu but what the heck. My symptoms were as follows 1. headache over my eyes from about 2-4 hours after awakening lasting the    entire day and night 2. shortness of breath (this just started recently) only in the evening  until  sleep 3.  dizziness, sligh nausea 4.  facial pain (I have only recently learned to distinguish this from a      headache) Today my NP called me and told me that the CT was abnormal and that I have either nasal polyps and or cysts (3) and she is referring me to an ENT specialist. Today was the happiest and most hopeful day I have had in my life!!!! She is dubious about this being the casuse of all my suffering but I am not.  

I don’t want to make you feel bad, but I have to say that I am not sure it’s the cause either. I don’t know anything about lasik, but I don’t understand how it could have triggered chronic sinusitis, unless you had developed some kind of post-operative eye infection and your surgeons should have been able to detect that.  The cysts and polyps could be coincidental.  Some folks have polyps for years with no symptoms. I even searched the Internet for you, to find any possible connection between sinus problems and Lasik.  I haven’t found anything.

This must be the answer, please let it be. I have read alot in the last 12 hours and I believe this must be it.  I cannot go on like this much longer and I have been a terrible father and husband for a long time now, Finally, my question fot the group.  Now what???  Should I just go with whatever course of action this unknown Dr. suggests??  

You should never do that for any course of action by any unknown doctor. Explain to this ENT all about your lasik surgery and when the problems started.  After this ENT has seen your CT scan films and told you what he thinks (is it sinusitis or a complication of lasik), start researching the ENTs in your area and find a good one, and get a second opinion from him. If you haven’t seen a neurologist yet, you should see one, and show him your MRI films. — Steven L.

Response:

On 23 Jan 2004 11:35:31 -0800, goyg…@aol.com (goygirl) wrote:

p.s.  I dont hink this is a neck problem

Why not?

Response:

I need help and advice with a very serious problem.  For about 28 months now, I have had moderate to severe headaches and facial pain. I believed that this stemmed from an unsatisfactory lasik procedure and two dissapointing enhancements that followed shortly thereafter.  I encountered boursts of severe pain in the eye in question as well, so I naturally assumed that this was the cause.  I saw 3 lasik specialists and they could find nothing that would cause this pain.  I was angry and depressed.  I have been healthy my whole life and now this pain, every day, and it seemed I had chosen it.  About six to eight months ago, the eye pain stopped, but the headaches and the facial pain persisted. I found that no OTC pain med helped me but percocet taken in small doses did take away most of the pain.  OK, if noone could help me, I would address the issue with medication.  I was concerned with becoming addicted to the drug, but not concerned enough to stop, the pain was too much. I had a brain MRI and went to a couple of doctors but nothing.  I was becoming more and more depressed and taking it out on my wife and kid.  I decided to rededicate myself to finding out what was wrong. Finally, a nurse practicioner at my Drs office suggested I have a CT of my sinus last week and I did.  I was  not very hopeful because I didnt seem to have any nasal congestion and almost never get a cold or the flu but what the heck. My symptoms were as follows 1. headache over my eyes from about 2-4 hours after awakening lasting the    entire day and night 2. shortness of breath (this just started recently) only in the evening  until  sleep 3.  dizziness, sligh nausea 4.  facial pain (I have only recently learned to distinguish this from a      headache) Today my NP called me and told me that the CT was abnormal and that I have either nasal polyps and or cysts (3) and she is referring me to an ENT specialist. Today was the happiest and most hopeful day I have had in my life!!!! She is dubious about this being the casuse of all my suffering but I am not.  This must be the answer, please let it be. I have read alot in the last 12 hours and I believe this must be it.  I cannot go on like this much longer and I have been a terrible father and husband for a long time now, Finally, my question fot the group.  Now what???  Should I just go with whatever course of action this unknown Dr. suggests??  I am really desperate for some relief (I even posted on the net for the first time)  I dont want to be anything less than aggresive with this problem which has caused me to suffer for so long. Any advice and wisdom from those with knowlede is very much appreciated Thanks, Larry

Response:

He didn’t say if he ever saw a neurologist.  I would think that’s at least as important as seeing an ENT. — Steven L. as usual Steve is right again. Steve, did you learn from me or is it vice versa? The headaches he is describing can be cervical. The first division of the trigeminal nerve is affected by cervical stimuli and is felt as a V1 pain. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote in message <news:20040119011638.22671.00000255@mb-m18.aol.com

… The symptoms you describe are often due to neck problems. Cysts of the sinuses do  not give this type of pain. I have seen patients with this history cured by getting their auto seat adjusted, or getting rid of the glare when they type. I would recommend referral to a licensed physical therapist. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

just a quick follow -up for those who took the time to read my post. Went to the allergist 4 days ago, after much advice, prior to my ent. Tested for alleraies as well as a breathing test.  Not much difference before and after the med with the breathing test and was positive for many allergies.  Follow-up appt next week for results. ENT yesterday in Phoenix, finally I may get some answers on this facial pain.  Gave him my history before he read my CT, tried not to leave anything out.  Then he started reading me the results of my CT which I already knew.  I asked him if he had read the CT and he said NO, only the report from the drs at the imaging center where it was taken.  I explained that I had waited 2 weeks to see him so he could read the CT and I was dissapointed.  He said he would order it by courier and call me when he had read it in a couple of days.  Very dissapointing.  I told him I would go get it and bring it within the hour and he said fine. Anyway when he read it, he said my sinuses looked fairly healthy and he seriously doubted that my facial pain could come from the one polyp on the right side.  He gave me some Astelin and Singulair and sent me on my way.  Told me to handle it with the allergist, that was where the problem probably lies.  I was very dissapointed that there was not something he could spot on the CT.  Im back to square one with no help from the astelin in 3 doses but will continue Any suggestions?? p.s.  I dont hink this is a neck problem Larry

Response:

All your syptoms I have. I had the CT and it was sinus problems. My ENT put a tiny scope (camera) inside my nose. I have large polyps, The Ct showed a crooked septum and he said my turbinates are large. I seen another ENT for a secound opinion. He said the same thing. He used a nose spreader and a magnifier and said and showed a large polyp and bad irratation. I said I have a CT in my car and should I bring it in for him to look at. He laughed and said he never has a problem being the 2nd opinion Doctor. He looked at it and showed me each area one at a time taking plenty of time. He said it was in the severe class. Left maxillart and tube is completely blocked right side is 1/2. upper somewhat.  ect. The pain gets very bad. So now its time to have it done. Get 2 Doctors and ask other people. Ask If the Doctor has done at least 200-300 sinus operations. using FESS. Well good luck

Response:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:53:40 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

wrote: Before he goes down this track too far: Have you ever heard of any scenario in which Lasik eye surgery could possibly cause chronic sinusitis?  The only thing I can think of would be a post-op eye infection, and his surgeons should have spotted that easily.

I could not find anything searching the Internet.

He didn’t say if he ever saw a neurologist.  I would think that’s at least as important as seeing an ENT.

I agree. Since he has a complicated problem, if he does not find a likely cause he might consider going to Mayo, which has excellent cross-disciplinary diagnostic approaches, and does not easily give up on a problem until they find the cause. Far too many other providers just rule out one cause at a time, without enough consultation across specialties.

Response:

Don and Steve Yes I did get an MRI by a qualified neurologist and he saw nothing.  I might add that I did recieve Punctal Plugs to help with the Dry Eye I experienced.  Any chance that may be the problem?  They worked wonders for my Dry Eye but I hate to think they were tthe cause of all this pain.  I aked my optomotrist friend if there is any possible connection and he said no. Larry

Response:

On 18 Jan 2004 13:13:36 -0800, goyg…@aol.com (goygirl) wrote:

Don and Steve Yes I did get an MRI by a qualified neurologist and he saw nothing.  I might add that I did recieve Punctal Plugs to help with the Dry Eye I experienced.  Any chance that may be the problem?  They worked wonders for my Dry Eye but I hate to think they were tthe cause of all this pain.  I aked my optomotrist friend if there is any possible connection and he said no.

Dry Eyes are a common complication of Lasik.  They may be asssociated with pain.    But one would expect the punctal plugs to help with that, not make it worse.  They are very commonly used. I would see what some sinus experts think of the CT scan before anything else….. Pain *above* the eyes could correspond to the ethmoid or possibly frontal sinsuses..   Is that where the polyps are or are the in the maxillary (cheek) sinuses?  Really you will know better after seeing the sinus specialist…..

Response:

The symptoms you describe are often due to neck problems. Cysts of the sinuses do  not give this type of pain. I have seen patients with this history cured by getting their auto seat adjusted, or getting rid of the glare when they type. I would recommend referral to a licensed physical therapist. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don Brady wrote:

On 17 Jan 2004 20:01:09 -0800, goyg…@aol.com (goygirl) wrote: Today my NP called me and told me that the CT was abnormal and that I have either nasal polyps and or cysts (3) and she is referring me to an ENT specialist. Today was the happiest and most hopeful day I have had in my life!!!! She is dubious about this being the casuse of all my suffering but I am not.  This must be the answer, please let it be. I have read alot in the last 12 hours and I believe this must be it.  I cannot go on like this much longer and I have been a terrible father and husband for a long time now, Finally, my question fot the group.  Now what???  Should I just go with whatever course of action this unknown Dr. suggests?? *If* they recommend surgery, I would not go right away with a randomly-chosen surgeon. Because surgery is a major thing, and can *occasionally* go wrong, and is a bit of an art, I would first see also other sinus surgeons, including one or two at a major University medical center, preferably including a conservative one such as Mayo.  

Before he goes down this track too far: Have you ever heard of any scenario in which Lasik eye surgery could possibly cause chronic sinusitis?  The only thing I can think of would be a post-op eye infection, and his surgeons should have spotted that easily. He didn’t say if he ever saw a neurologist.  I would think that’s at least as important as seeing an ENT. — Steven L.

Response:

Question:

Let me just take a wild guess here and assume u took an ssri. I’ve been on and off mine for years, off now for at least a year, and I get the shakes in the morning for no reason. I now believe what it took exacerbated my anxiety but so did other things. You could cut out all caffeine, tobacco, get more exercise, practice deep breathing, go to cognitive behavioral therapy, but most important at all, i think, is not to obsess about it. just enjoy it until it goes away- it’s nothing to worry about.

Response:

You could cut out all caffeine, tobacco, get more exercise, practice deep breathing, go to cognitive behavioral therapy, but most important at all, i think, is not to obsess about it. just enjoy it until it goes away- it’s nothing to worry about.

Thanks a lot! I have been heading towards the same conclusion myself! More than the trembling, it is the _anticipation_ of the trembling that exacerbates it.Thank you for your comments.

Response:

Hello there,   I have had bouts of mild depression ,but i had taken medication and am now not on medicines. But, I have occasional bouts of trembling hands or legs and excessive sweating. This happens (not surprisingly) when there are other people arpund. When I take a spoon of sugar to put it into someones cup, my hands shake visibly. When I get onstage to speak , my legs shake like there is some spring inside them (I have never had shaky legs while going onstage until about a year ago -even though I did have stage fear). And, when I talk to people I suddenly start sweating profusely and sometimes my speach slurs (I then feel like words are crashing throgh my mind and my mouth ain’t fast enough to speak my thoughts).Once or twice , I’ve woken up with a start due to marked twiching of some part of my body which disappears as soon as I get up.This is a source of real social embarrassment for me. What’s worse is that when I start trembling or sweating, I also get anxious that I am t. or s. and this acts like some feedback mechanism and _increases_ the t. and s.   I am 18 years old and am otherwise healthy. I do not want to take medicine for this.Can anyone tell me a way out of this which involves only exercise and proper diet? And yes, my sleep cycles are awry and I have a sizeable sleep debt.

Response:

Depending on what medication you were on it may still be some lingering side effect. I am not a doctor but I have heard of this happening sometimes. It sounds to me that you may have symptoms of some anxiety disorder. I would go to the docotor and get checked to rule out anything else. I sure you hate to take meds however we all do but you gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes. Hopefully some type of exercise will work for you. Take care. Paul

Response:

Wow, another young one!  I’m 18 as well, as of October 3rd. Anyway, I am on Zoloft, Xanax, and BuSpar, and the first week or so my speech slurred as well, not much, but it was noticeable.  My mom said it sounded like I was drunk.  So, as BlueFin said, it could still be a side-effect, depending on when you stopped the meds.  About the trembling, if it’s violent shaking you should talk to your doctor.  My arms and legs, especially my hands, tremble sometimes and shake when they are not supported and I am really anxious.  My psychologist said that this happened because an anxious person’s heart is pumping blood so fast that it takes it away from the limbs and they start to get tingly and shake.  Since you can still get up on stage, I say you’re doing great!  I couldn’t imagine doing something like that right now. Hope this helped,     Robin Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there,   I have had bouts of mild depression ,but i had taken medication and am now not on medicines. But, I have occasional bouts of trembling hands or legs and excessive sweating. This happens (not surprisingly) when there are other people arpund. When I take a spoon of sugar to put it into someones cup, my hands shake visibly. When I get onstage to speak , my legs shake like there is some spring inside them (I have never had shaky legs while going onstage until about a year ago -even though I did have stage fear). And, when I talk to people I suddenly start sweating profusely and sometimes my speach slurs (I then feel like words are crashing throgh my mind and my mouth ain’t fast enough to speak my thoughts).Once or twice , I’ve woken up with a start due to marked twiching of some part of my body which disappears as soon as I get up.This is a source of real social embarrassment for me. What’s worse is that when I start trembling or sweating, I also get anxious that I am t. or s. and this acts like some feedback mechanism and _increases_ the t. and s.   I am 18 years old and am otherwise healthy. I do not want to take medicine for this.Can anyone tell me a way out of this which involves only exercise and proper diet? And yes, my sleep cycles are awry and I have a sizeable sleep debt.

Response:

Question:

No, I’m cool with that, James. I don’t even mind lookingat SEs for other TCAs, though they are exactly the same as the one I’m on. But the very first thing I do when I get a refill is bin the info sheet if the pharmacist hasn’t already done so.  The minds of mortals work in strange ways, huh?

agreed. some of those "side effects" are ridiculous though…i mean "alcohol abuse"?! -although i have been feeling like a drink lately, but you’re not meant to consume alcohol when taking paxil. — James Fife, Scotland ICQ:41149795 "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

Response:

<snippage BTW, there haven’t been any contributions to the FAQ, so I did some work on it, and have forwarded it to Jackie to look over, fill in blanks, etc.

Hey, Sloopy — You know, I feel that it’s somewhat unfortunate that there were so few contributions to this thread as I think others could offer some helpful opinions.  I’m thinking about suggestions from newbies in particular — wondering what they would like to have seen in an SSRI-FAQ had it existed when they first found ASAP.  I do understand how some may feel *shy* about jumping into a thread in which it looks as though only long-timers are discussing the subject.  However, I’m glad you did pose this idea to the group in an open forum format as it at least allowed for others to contribute should they have desired to do so. Others, such as yourself, who wish to contribute (one way or an udder), will receive a copy for review before it’s "almost" finished, and all input will be appreciated (all input right "now" would be, and is, appreciated:)

Sounds good – I would like to review the "almost" finished FAQ as I think it will be fun to review with respect to the clarity aspect. It won’t be done in a day or two, but it shouldn’t take all that long, either. Of course, I expect Ian to "sheer" it apart, once he has access again:)

LOL… Oh yes, I’m sure Ian will have some opinions and contributions to make, and I certainly wouldn’t want to deprive him of the opportunity to do so.  :) Best… ==== Blue (one who is curse-proof!… ) — Remove mypants to email me

Response:

I’m thinking about suggestions from newbies in particular — wondering what they would like to have seen in an SSRI-FAQ had it existed when they first found ASAP.

hmm. 1. the conditions they are used for 2. what each one in particular is mostly used for 3. how they work 4. something about the different doses 5. side effects of each ssri 6. coming off them 7. um…. — James Fife, Scotland ICQ:41149795 "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

Response:

7. um….

known interactions with other drugs/alcohol etc! there! — James Fife, Scotland ICQ:41149795 "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about suggestions from newbies in particular — wondering what they would like to have seen in an SSRI-FAQ had it existed when they first found ASAP. hmm. 1. the conditions they are used for 2. what each one in particular is mostly used for 3. how they work 4. something about the different doses 5. side effects of each ssri 6. coming off them 7. um….

Um… could i suggest it doesn’t include the side effects, just a URL to a source that lists them. Most of us, including me, are likely to experience them all on reading about them. Ian

Response:

Um… could i suggest it doesn’t include the side effects, just a URL to a source that lists them. Most of us, including me, are likely to experience them all on reading about them.

you *definately* don’t want to look at this then: <<<warning! http://www.paxilprogress.org/research/research_documents/paxil_sideef… <<<warning! (!) — James Fife, Scotland ICQ:41149795 "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

Response:

Um… could i suggest it doesn’t include the side effects, just a URL to a source that lists them. Most of us, including me, are likely to experience them all on reading about them. you *definately* don’t want to look at this then: <<<warning! http://www.paxilprogress.org/research/research_documents/paxil_sideef… <<<warning! (!)

No, I’m cool with that, James. I don’t even mind lookingat SEs for other TCAs, though they are exactly the same as the one I’m on. But the very first thing I do when I get a refill is bin the info sheet if the pharmacist hasn’t already done so.  The minds of mortals work in strange ways, huh? Ian

Response:

Sloopy wrote……. Hopefully, you got it and have eaten your monitor by now

I`ve been cheated!!!! In my tagline is specifically says that I require 14 chocolate bars and you only sent 6 What ‘ya think?

Whatever everyone agree`s on is just fine by me Jackie Acting like a witch…..Eating 14 chocolate bars…..this isn`t a holiday for

Response:

Hi Blue!  :)  Good to see you back.

Thanks, Dan.  It’s a real… er, pleasure <? to be back! IMO, YMMV and all that.  I personally don’t like the Q&A format.  All the information is there either way.   A well laid out document will allow users to find what they need.

I think Sloopy’s intention in bringing up the idea of creating an SSRI-FAQ in an open forum was to allow any and all to express their own opinions, and I am pleased we can have differences in our opinions I’m trying to imagine a newbie who’s gone to the trouble to find the FAQ and is willing to read it.  I just reread the post of Jackie’s where she put together information in a document-type format and contrasted that to Sloopy’s post where he’s posed suggestions for questions. And personally, I think the question and answer format is less *intimidating* somehow.  As you know, some of  us have difficulty concentrating at times, and I feel the question-and-answer format allows the reader to take in the information a bit at a time. However, as you state, a well laid-out document could achieve the same results.  It’s getting that document into a well laid-out state that then becomes the challenge.  Clarity is what is needed, whatever format the FAQ takes.  Should the FAQ take the form of a document rather than a question-and-answer format, I would be willing to review it and voice my opinions on how well it reads, for whatever that’s worth. <snippage As far as dissenting ideas, I had two sources in mind.  The antimed fanatics are one, you know they’ll have something to say about this. But they aren’t really the ones I had in mind.  I was mainly thinking of sincere posters that would like to have non-meds mentioned.

I think Sloopy, in his reply to your post, makes a valid point with respect to this.  If this is to be a FAQ on SSRIs, then that should be the subject of the SSRI-FAQ.  I am sympathetic to those sincere readers and/or posters who would like to have information on dealing with anxiety and panic without the use of meds, and I think this is best addressed as a separate issue as it is in the monthly FAQ. I haven’t heard commentary on the idea of making this a "meds" FAQ rather than just SSRIs.  How many newcomers will even know what an SSRI is and if their med is one?

Once again, I feel what Sloopy said with respect to taking this one step at a time makes sense.  And I do agree with Sloopy that the SSRI-FAQ would serve the purpose of answering those almost daily questions of  "My doctor just put me on <SSRI.  Does anyone know anything about <SSRI?"  That would be the time that the link to the SSRI-FAQ could be provided, and voila!  No more Jackie and Philip spending their time writing the same replies over and over and over again… Best Wishes === Blue — Remove mypants to email me

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Hi Blue!  :)  Good to see you back. It ’tis, isn’t it?  Whoa Nellie!

LOL, Sloopy… I just "luv" Nellie Best… === Blue — Remove mypants to email me

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Blue!  :)  Good to see you back. It ’tis, isn’t it?  Whoa Nellie! IMO, YMMV and all that.  I personally don’t like the Q&A format.  All the information is there either way.   A well laid out document will allow users to find what they need. It makes no difference, AFAIC.  As long as all the info is there, and easy to follow. The questions I last posed need to be included, however – in whatever format.  When I have the time, I’ll go back through it, and see how it lays out. Need all the answers to the questions, tho:) <snip As far as dissenting ideas, I had two sources in mind.  The antimed fanatics are one, you know they’ll have something to say about this. But they aren’t really the ones I had in mind.  I was mainly thinking of sincere posters that would like to have non-meds mentioned. I think you’re missing the point, Dan. The monthly FAQ has all sorts of non-med references. The idea behind *this* FAQ is that people ask the same questions about SSRIs all the time. For those who *ask*, then the URL to this particular FAQ, or the FAQ itself can be posted as a reply. I haven’t heard commentary on the idea of making this a "meds" FAQ rather than just SSRIs. I think one step at a time. When people ask about benzos (for example), there are sites all over the place that talk about their effectiveness and when/if they should be prescribed (and dependency caveats). There are also quite a few sites with opposite views. I not only doubt that a FAQ is necessary for tranquilizers in general, but think it would become a war zone! LOL However, when someone asks about them, they get answers "and" URLs to check. With the SSRI questions, however, there aren’t sites that provide the type of information that’s provided here on an almost daily basis. That’s why it’s an ASAP FAQ, for ease of replies, as well as "more" education on these meds than the poster may have even been aware to ask in the first place. AND, the main reason, I suppose, is that SSRIs are prescribed for just about anything these days, far more than any other class of medications, it appears. That’s why there are more questions about them, and why it seems a need to focus in with a good solid document that contains a lot of the answers to <koff frequenty asked questions:) How many newcomers will even know what an SSRI is and if their med is one? That’s one of the goals;)  Someone says "the doc just put me on Paxil (or whatever it’s called in a particular country), and I don’t know much about it. Can someone tell me about side effects I’ve heard about?" <  BAM – post the FAQ as a reply (just once) or the URL to it   Think of it more as a reply, rather than a FAQ document for searching, and you might see what I feel the aim is. — Sloopy:)

Is that not like telling people to read the F.Manal, just like some PC groups do.??? — Mark Brown

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Hi Blue!  :)  Good to see you back. IMO, YMMV and all that.  I personally don’t like the Q&A format.  All the information is there either way.   A well laid out document will allow users to find what they need. People will read it or not in either style.  A very few start reading a newsgroup by looking for the FAQ.  Most read a couple of recent posts and join in, never knowing if there is a FAQ or not. As far as dissenting ideas, I had two sources in mind.  The antimed fanatics are one, you know they’ll have something to say about this. But they aren’t really the ones I had in mind.  I was mainly thinking of sincere posters that would like to have non-meds mentioned. I haven’t heard commentary on the idea of making this a "meds" FAQ rather than just SSRIs.  How many newcomers will even know what an SSRI is and if their med is one? tnx, drr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippage *** I think it should be as most FAQs are, which is a question/answer format, seeing as it’s about "frequently asked questions."  What ‘ya think?  Would it read better if the info below were the made into answers? Anyone? Yup, I think it would read easier if the information is put in a question and answer format.  That would allow people to zero in on any particular concern or question they may have, which might help insure that the FAQ actually gets read. One thing that Dan suggested was giving counter info, of sorts. I thought about that, and that would lead to Breggin, at the very worst. Breggin has his web sites, and the anti-benzo squad has their FAQ for their mailing list. Hmmm….. gonna have to think about that one for awhile (and re-read the existing FAQ). Good start, yes?  I think it can become a real FAQ in a short time. Yes, it’s a good start.  Only time will tell whether it will actually serve its intended purpose, but how to know without trying? Best Wishes === Blue — Remove mypants to email me

– The second nicest guy on the internet Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        Mark Brown tries to say… Think of it more as a reply, rather than a FAQ document for searching, and you might see what I feel the aim is. Is that not like telling people to read the F.Manal, just like some PC groups do.??? — Mark Brown I suppose the above comment can stand all by itself as your most helpful contribution to the FAQ on SSRIs.  A vast crevice of information, as always. — Sloopy:)

No. I don’t have the knowledge to contribute to the F.A.Q. WHAT I meant nothing beats discussion on individual topics. A  greater number of people would rather ask a question and have it answered rather than read lots , and lots of information e.g.. newbies, who don’t understand the basic concept of the various ways to deal with their condition Basically all I am saying is that the person or persons who write technical type things tend to write them from their  own knowledge or perspective, and newbies can easily get lost in techno-babble. I know that this does not add anything of a constructive nature. Y.M.M.V. naturally. — Mark Brown

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Sloopy wrote….. Begin there, or you "will" get Soy for Halloween!

I began…..so I expect tons of chocolates before the 31st   Jackie Celexa ( Citalopram ) Recommended starting dose is 5mgs. Increase dose in 5mg increments once a week. Therapeutic range varies between 20 to 40 mgs, although some may do well on 10mgs and others may need 60mgs. Luvox ( Fluvoxamine ) Recommended starting dose is 12.5 to 25mgs. If sensitive to medication, the starting dose of 12.5 mgs is probably best. Increase dose in 12.5 or 25mg increments once a week. Therapeutic range varies between 100-300 mgs. Paxil ( Paroxetine) Recommended starting dose is 5mgs, for people sensitive to medication, it might be better to start at 2.5mgs. Paxil is available in liquid form to make taking very small doses easier. Increase dose in 2.5 or 5mgs increments once a week. Therapeutic range varies between 10-60mgs. Prozac ( Fluoxetine ) Recommended starting dose is 5mgs, for people sensitive to medication, it might be better to start at 2.5mgs. Prozac is available in liquid form to make taking very small doses easier. Increase dose in 2.5 or 5mg increments once a week. Therapeutic range varies between 10-60mgs. Zoloft (Sertraline ) Recommended starting dose is 25mgs, for people sensitive to medication, it might be better to start at 12.5mgs. Increase dose in 12.5 or 25mg increments once a week. Therapeutic range varies between 100-200 mgs, although some may do well on 50mgs and others may need 250mgs. *It is suggested that you increase your dose once a week….however,  you can wean even slower if you feel that is best. This is not a race, sometimes going slower is much better. General Info about SSRI`s It usually takes up to 6-8 weeks for an SSRI antidepressant to really kick in. Some people have reported that their SSRI`s started to work as early as 2 weeks, but don`t get nervous if this doesn`t happen to you. Patience is important when weaning on antidepressants. Common SSRI side-effects which you may or may not experience, are… nausea, diarrhea, increased anxiety, dizziness, insomnia, fatigue, sleepiness, headache, tremors, dry mouth, weight gain and sexual dysfunction. They are normal, common and usually diminish with time, although some side-effects can be chronic. Any side-effect that is particularly bothersome should be discussed with your doctor. If nausea is a side-effect, take your medication with food, it can help decrease the stomach irritation SSRI`s can cause and that might decrease the nausea. Having trouble sleeping since starting your SSRI? If you are taking your antidepressant in the PM, a switch to the AM might help. Are you battling daytime fatigue since you started your SSRI? If you are taking your antidepressant in the AM, a switch to PM might help. Somtimes you have to experiment with the times you take your SSRI, there is no right or wrong time to take your med, it is what works best for you. Taking a benzodiazepine such as Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, or Valium during the weaning on process can minimize the side-effects. It is a common practice to prescribe a benzodiazepine for people weaning on antidepressants. Benzodiazepines can also help when weaning off SSRI`s and are experiencing withdrawal symptoms. It is very important to never stop your SSRI AD cold turkey or you could experience withdrawal symptoms. Paxil is the most likely out of all the SSRI`s to cause withdrawal symptoms, and Prozac is the least likely.  If and when the time comes to stop taking your antidepressant, make sure it is done under the supervision of your doctor. A slow wean, decreasing your dose in small increments is the best way to go.  Even if you wean off your antidepressant slowly, there is still a chance you can experience "SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome", which basically means withdrawal symptoms. Some of these symptoms are dizziness, electric shock feelings, headaches, increased anxiety, irritability, insomnia, and nausea. These withdrawal symptoms are not dangerous, they will disappear with time. Make sure to inform your doctor if you are experiencing any withdrawal symptoms. Acting like a witch…..Eating 14 chocolate bars…..this isn`t a holiday for

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<snippage *** I think it should be as most FAQs are, which is a question/answer format, seeing as it’s about "frequently asked questions."  What ‘ya think?  Would it read better if the info below were the made into answers? Anyone?

Yup, I think it would read easier if the information is put in a question and answer format.  That would allow people to zero in on any particular concern or question they may have, which might help insure that the FAQ actually gets read. One thing that Dan suggested was giving counter info, of sorts. I thought about that, and that would lead to Breggin, at the very worst. Breggin has his web sites, and the anti-benzo squad has their FAQ for their mailing list.

Hmmm….. gonna have to think about that one for awhile (and re-read the existing FAQ). Good start, yes?  I think it can become a real FAQ in a short time.

Yes, it’s a good start.  Only time will tell whether it will actually serve its intended purpose, but how to know without trying? Best Wishes === Blue — Remove mypants to email me

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created. It can be used in the weekly FAQ if need be, but more to the point would be a single reply to those who are just starting SSRIs, and want to know the ins and outs, including the positives as well as the negatives (or things to be avoided, or some to "possibly" be expected with the YMMV caveat). *Paxil is more sedating than Prozac, for example. *Starting doses for each of the SSRIs, and the best way to ramp up, and in what increments, and over how long a period of time. *Withdrawal syndrome and half-lives of each (and what that means) *Cross over in switching from one to another *How one may be right, but others may not, for the given individual *What meds shouldn’t be mixed with SSRIs, and the fact that Luvox changes the metabolism of alprozolam, to in effect, double the alprazolam dose. *Don’t mix with an MAOI inhibitor *Don’t mix with herbs unless checked with the doctor or pharmacist. *What about mixing SSRIs and alcohol? *What about sexual dysfunction, if it occurs?   etc., etc., etc…. Hmmm.. there’s a very skinny "basic" start.  Open forum as not a *professional* FAQ, but an ASAP FAQ, based on facts known, and experiences. Once completed, if this could be put on someone’s web site, where there’s space, all the better. No big deal there… I’m sure one of us would be willing to fork over some space. I have lots of spaces but I’m not sure if the URL of www.cobol-death.f2s.com would be great for an SSRI site do you??;-) I’d think this would be a good document, that can evolve with new data, as needed, but mainly used as an informative *tool*. — Sloopy:)   < suggestions? – thoughts? Sounds like a good idea. It would be very good for new people to read up on SSRI’s and not have to deal with some inconsistent information. I would like to see what the others think. I for one would vote yes. Jeff…

I take it , Jeff, when you mention Slopy you are having a joke with us. PLEASE-)))) — Mark Brown

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I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created.

Excellent idea.  Since no one (hopefully) will have experience will all the SSRI’s, there needs to be a way to compile book data with experience. < suggestions? – thoughts?

Seems like an offline task to compile.  Need some volunteers.  I would be willing. Gwen

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I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created. snip Sounds like a great idea to me

Anything would be a  good idea to you..!! — Mark Brown

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Well, here are my thoughts on this subject. 1.     We need a coordinator to grease wheels       and keep out the lint.  I nominate Sloopy.  :)       But I do have the time and interest myself.

No wonder the smiley after sloop’s name -(( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -2.     I think we should create a med FAQ with SSRIs       as one major topic.  TCAs, benzodiazepines       and misc could be others.  This would be subject       to length requirements.  1000 lines is probably a       good maximum for one FAQ. 3.     Discussing the contents on ASAP has merit, but       this might not be the appropriate place.  Certainly       the progress and calls for comments should be       on ASAP. 4      Most of the information in this FAQ will be anecdotal       in nature.  It should be clear that that this is the case       with references to official and not so official       information. 5.     A decision should be made early on about how to       handle dissenting ideas.  Especially controversial       ones.  At first glance, I think that providing a section       about dissenting ideas with links provided by the       dissenters is sufficient. 6.     The final [sic] version should be regularly posted       at ASAP and with the news.answers system.  I can       help whoever does the final posting with this process. tnx, drr        "Gwenivere" says… Excellent idea.  Since no one (hopefully) will have experience will all the SSRI’s, there needs to be a way to compile book data with experience. < suggestions? – thoughts? Seems like an offline task to compile. Yak!  I’m hoping it can be worked on right here…. but…. Need some volunteers.  I would be willing. If it becomes something that doesn’t pan out in the open forum, then yup! A few of us can get together, put the collective knowledge <burp to keyboard, and then "present" what’s been compiled.  I’d like Ian’s input included (he’s not readily available right now) – although it might not be a FAQ but rather a novel;) Of course, there are several here, too many to mention by name, who I’d like to see jump in here and add bits and pieces, to lay down the groundwork – if not the basis for the FAQ, all together. Am I confusing you, Maui?  LOL

Yes — Mark Brown

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Would the FAQ include some of the more commonly used TCAs and Oddball ADs as well? Boyd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like a great idea.  When are you going to finish it?  :P Seriously, if no one jumps up and wants it, I’ll do it.  My ISP increased my file quota by 30 MB so I think there’s room …. If someone does want to take this on, I can add a summary to one of the other FAQs and a link to where they can get the rest of the info. tnx, drr I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created. It can be used in the weekly FAQ if need be, but more to the point would be a single reply to those who are just starting SSRIs, and want to know the ins and outs, including the positives as well as the negatives (or things to be avoided, or some to "possibly" be expected with the YMMV caveat). *Paxil is more sedating than Prozac, for example. *Starting doses for each of the SSRIs, and the best way to ramp up, and in what increments, and over how long a period of time. *Withdrawal syndrome and half-lives of each (and what that means) *Cross over in switching from one to another *How one may be right, but others may not, for the given individual *What meds shouldn’t be mixed with SSRIs, and the fact that Luvox changes the metabolism of alprozolam, to in effect, double the alprazolam dose. *Don’t mix with an MAOI inhibitor *Don’t mix with herbs unless checked with the doctor or pharmacist. *What about mixing SSRIs and alcohol? *What about sexual dysfunction, if it occurs?   etc., etc., etc…. Hmmm.. there’s a very skinny "basic" start.  Open forum as not a *professional* FAQ, but an ASAP FAQ, based on facts known, and experiences. Once completed, if this could be put on someone’s web site, where there’s space, all the better. I’d think this would be a good document, that can evolve with new data, as needed, but mainly used as an informative *tool*. — The second nicest guy on the internet Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created. It can be used in the weekly FAQ if need be, but more to the point would be a single reply to those who are just starting SSRIs, and want to know the ins and outs, including the positives as well as the negatives (or things to be avoided, or some to "possibly" be expected with the YMMV caveat). *Paxil is more sedating than Prozac, for example. *Starting doses for each of the SSRIs, and the best way to ramp up, and in what increments, and over how long a period of time. *Withdrawal syndrome and half-lives of each (and what that means) *Cross over in switching from one to another *How one may be right, but others may not, for the given individual *What meds shouldn’t be mixed with SSRIs, and the fact that Luvox changes the metabolism of alprozolam, to in effect, double the alprazolam dose. *Don’t mix with an MAOI inhibitor *Don’t mix with herbs unless checked with the doctor or pharmacist. *What about mixing SSRIs and alcohol? *What about sexual dysfunction, if it occurs?   etc., etc., etc…. Hmmm.. there’s a very skinny "basic" start.  Open forum as not a *professional* FAQ, but an ASAP FAQ, based on facts known, and experiences. Once completed, if this could be put on someone’s web site, where there’s space, all the better.

No big deal there… I’m sure one of us would be willing to fork over some space. I have lots of spaces but I’m not sure if the URL of www.cobol-death.f2s.com would be great for an SSRI site do you??;-) I’d think this would be a good document, that can evolve with new data, as needed, but mainly used as an informative *tool*. — Sloopy:)   < suggestions? – thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea. It would be very good for new people to read up on SSRI’s and not have to deal with some inconsistent information. I would like to see what the others think. I for one would vote yes. Jeff…

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I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created.

This sounds like a good idea to me. -David-

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I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created.

snip Sounds like a great idea to me — Jon Guite Live support and chat for anxiety and panic disorders daily at #anx/pan For details see http://www.skcldv.demon.co.uk/anxpanw.htm

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Sloopy wrote…… I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created.

Cool!! Go for it Jackie Acting like a witch…..Eating 14 chocolate bars…..this isn`t a holiday for

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sloopy wrote…… I’d like to suggest that a FAQ on SSRIs be created. Cool!! Go for it LOL! Well, I was hoping, that the collective experiences and wisdom here on ASAP would use this thread to *create* the FAQ.  Add some, delete some, and come up with a final draft – that most agree to. I began with a draft of some basics, that need to be expounded on. Begin there, or you "will" get Soy for Halloween! — Sloopy:)

I don’t have much experience of SSRI’s, except that Prozac had me climbing the walls, but I’d be glad to help in any other way I can. — Jon Guite Live support and chat for anxiety and panic disorders daily at #anx/pan For details see http://www.skcldv.demon.co.uk/anxpanw.htm

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently went off my Zoloft which I have been taking on/off (mostly on) for a couple of years.  I have been at 100 mg for the past six or so months.  I only had side effects in the beginning but they all went away except the lack of libido which I can deal with.  The primary reason I am going off it is that I jsut can’t afford it anymore and am hoping that my depression will not return as bad as before.  Right now I seem emotionally stable   (Not to worry, if it appears that I really *need* to go back on it I will).  I have been off about 4-5 days and am having dizzy spells like crazy.  When I stand up to fast or turn my head too fast.  I know I shouldn’t have gone off cold turkey but hell, the money ran out at the same time the script did.  I am also in one of those situations where I make too much to qualify for any type of medication assistance yet not enough to pay for them.  Yeah, the middle class often gets the shaft too. Anyhow…I digress.  Is this dizziness just possibly a withdrawal thing from the Zoloft and if so, how long can I expect it to go on?  It is quite

annoying. Probably is from withdrawal. When I went off 100 mg of Zoloft cold turkey, I was dizzy 24 hours a day for about 4 weeks. It was then I finally gave in and started taking a very low dose with the goal of weaning myself off gradually. Maybe you can get one more scrip of a low dose from your doc, and wean yourself off? Good luck. Cate

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I recently went off my Zoloft which I have been taking on/off (mostly on) for a couple of years.  I have been at 100 mg for the past six or so months.  I only had side effects in the beginning but they all went away except the lack of libido which I can deal with.  The primary reason I am going off it is that I jsut can’t afford it anymore and am hoping that my depression will not return as bad as before.  Right now I seem emotionally stable   (Not to worry, if it appears that I really *need* to go back on it I will).  I have been off about 4-5 days and am having dizzy spells like crazy.  When I stand up to fast or turn my head too fast.  I know I shouldn’t have gone off cold turkey but hell, the money ran out at the same time the script did.  I am also in one of those situations where I make too much to qualify for any type of medication assistance yet not enough to pay for them.  Yeah, the middle class often gets the shaft too. Anyhow…I digress.  Is this dizziness just possibly a withdrawal thing from the Zoloft and if so, how long can I expect it to go on?  It is quite annoying. SWC

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Question:

you go girl!!!!!!!

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I can understand that some posters may wish to use screen names to protect their identity or that of their kids when talking about personal AD/HD issues. (Although personally I have never had any problem with letting people know that I have AD/HD – but that is my choice and I respect the rights of others to choose to retain whatever level of privacy they feel comfortable with.) That apart, why would anybody wish to remain anonymous if they were genuinely interested in contributing to a rational and informed debate about treatment options ? This guy is not writing about personal stuff … he is just posting selected articles, a bit like a press clipping service.  There is very little original comment or analysis involved. Is he a guy who is just a teeny weensy bit obsessional about psychiatric " abuse " as a result of a bad personal experience ?  Is he a representative of a group which considers it has a " message " to give to the public ?  I don’t know …   All I know is that I have a distrust of writers who just quote ( or maybe misquote) other people’s stuff without making any sort of personal contribution to the news group. Again, that is my own opinion / prejudice. Ian N Ford

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It is this scetion that got my attention:   "Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    GATEKEEPER.EOP.GOV  198.137.241.3    SEC1.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.92.2    SEC2.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.93.2" If he is running through Psi.net, they have a very strict abuse policy online and I might actually be able to get it stopped. I am afraid I don’t know enough about headers yet but i’ll read up on it and let you know…. Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The govt. header is obviously forged.  Do you think that the UFO cult path is real? George Maybe he’s beaming down from a UFO? I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : <snipped Path: news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home .com !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!churc h.of .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Doncha just love that path. :-/ — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy. Before you buy. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

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The govt. header is obviously forged.  Do you think that the UFO cult path is real? George

Maybe he’s beaming down from a UFO? I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : <snipped Path:

news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home .com

!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!churc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – h.of .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Doncha just love that path. :-/ — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy. Before you buy.

– Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : <snipped Path:

news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.co m !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!church.o f .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO

Doncha just love that path. :-/ — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

The govt. header is obviously forged.  Do you think that the UFO cult path is real? George I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : <snipped Path:

news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home .com !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!churc h.of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Doncha just love that path. :-/ — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

No kidding, you’ll vote for the most screwed up candidate?  Maybe that explains some of Bush’s support:  "He almost killed his sister while driving under the influence?  Excellent, he’s our boy!" – Jeff Anyway, I’m infuriated, and voting for Bush STRICTLY because he’s been around the block a few times.  I love every piece of mind-altering scoop they get on him.

– ‘98 Rans V-Rex    ==–%   Waltham, MA    ()    O http://www.BlueSNAFU.com – v2.36

Response:

I would love to get the story out that the Government is Spaming the Usenet and how unfair it is since we are powerless to stop it. If it is true, I almost hope it is….

Spammers, net kooks, and trolls love to forge their headers.  One of their favorite things to do is put in bogus governmental tracking info or to put in tracking info for three or four bogus originating services. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

I would love to get the story out that the Government is Spaming the Usenet and how unfair it is since we are powerless to stop it. If it is true, I almost hope it is…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OH MY GOD! I DESPISE THE OUR GOVERNMENT!  I knew they would stoop to such lengths!  I will be away from my PC till Tuesday but believe me I intend to get to the bottom of this.  I have been on an anti-DEA crusade for over 5 years.  I can feel the chunks rising again. OA.EOP.GOV stands for Office of Administration, Executive Office of the President.  I do not know if this is an alius that wack-o was able to use or if its really them. Anyway, I’m infuriated, and voting for Bush STRICTLY because he’s been around the block a few times.  I love every piece of mind-altering scoop they get on him. Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ (So the DEA can find me better). I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : Executive Office Of The President USA (NET-EOPNET-C1)    Room NEOB 4208    725 17th Street NW    Washington, DC 20503    US    Netname: EOPNET-C1    Netblock: 198.137.240.0 – 198.137.240.255    Coordinator:       (202) 395-6417    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    GATEKEEPER.EOP.GOV  198.137.241.3    SEC1.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.92.2    SEC2.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.93.2    Record last updated on 04-May-1999.    Database last updated on 4-Nov-2000 18:06:29 EDT.Path: news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.co m !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!church.o f .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Newsgroups: alt.support.survivors.prozac,alt.support.attn-deficit,alt.support.depressio n .medication,alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.manic,alt.society . mental-health,misc.kids.health,alt.parenting.solutions Organization: Mental Health Liberation Front Lines: 95 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.137.240.127 Keywords: Serzone Nefadar nefazodone Anafranil clomipramine Celexa Cipramil citalopram Luvox Floxyfral fluvoxamine Sarafem Prozac Fontex fluoxetine Zoloft sertraline Paxil paroxetine Effexor venlafaxine Lamictal lamotrigine Normud zimelidine Upstene indalpine Adapin Sinequan doxepin Amitid Elavil Endep amitriptyline Haldol haloperidol Vestra reboxetine Nembutol pentobarbital Pertrofrane desipramine Neurontin gabapentin Wellbutrin Zyban bupropion Nardil phenelzine Asendin amoxapine Tofranil imipramine Vivactil protriptyline Surmontin trimipramine Ludiomil maprotiline Norpramin desipramine Dutonin nefazodone Parnate Aventyl Pamelor nortriptyline tranylcypromine Desyrel trazodone Marplan isocarboxazid Remeron mirtazapine Aurorix Mannerix moclobemide Seroxat paroxetine Xanax alprazolam Klonopin clonazepam Tolvon minaserin Desyrel trazodone tranylcypromin St John’s Wort hypericin monoamine oxidase inhibitor selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor tricyclic antidepressant Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com alt.support.survivors.prozac:30014220 alt.support.attn-deficit:30119798 alt.support.depression.medication:30061886 alt.support.depression:30785838 alt.support.depression.manic:30146558 alt.society.mental-health:30017788 misc.kids.health:30040893 alt.parenting.solutions:30161942 Well, to him I’d like to say…. Do NOT talk to me about hating Ritalin until you find yourself walking away and going on to the next task prematurely before even flushing the toilet, or putting on BOTH shoes instead of just one. Do not talk to me until you realize that you have run out of the house and gotten on a train before turning off the piolet light on the stove, or left the iron on, or left a cigarette burning. Do not talk to me until you see your life as a mile-high pile of thoughts that could never be sorted, and can barely think of having friends because you can never get organized enough to leave your house before dark! Do not talk to me until you find out that you will ALWAYS think this way unless you go to a shrink every month and get a "Controlled Substance" prescription ON PAPER because the DEA won’t allow it any other way. What Magical Herb do you have for me that I havent tried? I believe Ritalin saves my life and possibly my neighborhood everyday.  Ritalin does NOT make me feel great, I feel just possibly a tiny bit normal, possibly. To see how we feel, go without sleep for 48 hours and then make everything in your life a desparately important priority. The wired rushing around and confused thinking you are experiencing is how we feel everyday.  Go ahead try it, I dare you. Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Sincerily, Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ

Response:

Well, to him I’d like to say…. Do NOT talk to me about hating Ritalin until you find yourself walking away and going on to the next task prematurely before even flushing the toilet, or putting on BOTH shoes instead of just one. Do not talk to me until you realize that you have run out of the house and gotten on a train before turning off the piolet light on the stove, or left the iron on, or left a cigarette burning. Do not talk to me until you see your life as a mile-high pile of thoughts that could never be sorted, and can barely think of having friends because you can never get organized enough to leave your house before dark! Do not talk to me until you find out that you will ALWAYS think this way unless you go to a shrink every month and get a "Controlled Substance" prescription ON PAPER because the DEA won’t allow it any other way. What Magical Herb do you have for me that I havent tried? I believe Ritalin saves my life and possibly my neighborhood everyday.  Ritalin does NOT make me feel great, I feel just possibly a tiny bit normal, possibly. To see how we feel, go without sleep for 48 hours and then make everything in your life a desparately important priority. The wired rushing around and confused thinking you are experiencing is how we feel everyday.  Go ahead try it, I dare you. Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Sincerily, Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ

Response:

Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing into your home someone with "hate" in all his fake Usenet names? Joe Parsons

[snip] Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand!

Frequently Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for dealing with attention deficit disorder are at http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/faq.html

Response:

I believe I can turn anyone who witnesses my daily life around from Hating helpful prescription drugs! In fact I think we’d get a formal apology! Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing into your home someone with "hate" in all his fake Usenet names? Joe Parsons [snip] Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Frequently Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for dealing with attention deficit disorder are at http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/faq.html

Response:

Susan, He’s a raving lunatic.  He’s homeless and stays at a Y. He lost his job as a teacher.  He refuses treatment. His wife and kids left him after being abused by him. He’s much worse off than you but he’s too paranoid to improve his situation.  He’s very pathetic, but there’s no hope of helping him from our position. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe I can turn anyone who witnesses my daily life around from Hating helpful prescription drugs! In fact I think we’d get a formal apology! Susan Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing into your home someone with "hate" in all his fake Usenet names? Joe Parsons [snip] Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Frequently Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for dealing with attention deficit disorder are at http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/faq.html

Before you buy.

Response:

Oh, well I certainly do not need another ADD’er living in this house! I am about all I can take.  Thanks for the advice.  Sounds like a real problem child, I can’t believe he’s not even in any position to talk! I’ll ignore him for now but next week I will try to track him down and get rid of him (from online, I mean). Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, He’s a raving lunatic.  He’s homeless and stays at a Y. He lost his job as a teacher.  He refuses treatment. His wife and kids left him after being abused by him. He’s much worse off than you but he’s too paranoid to improve his situation.  He’s very pathetic, but there’s no hope of helping him from our position. George I believe I can turn anyone who witnesses my daily life around from Hating helpful prescription drugs! In fact I think we’d get a formal apology! Susan Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing into your home someone with "hate" in all his fake Usenet names? Joe Parsons [snip] Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Frequently Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for dealing with attention deficit disorder are at http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/faq.html Before you buy.

Response:

Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing into your home someone with "hate" in all his fake Usenet names?

Susan, are you *sure* you’d want to consider bringing somebody into Kearny, NJ? I must admit I’m biased.  My loving husband had to go there for a project, working day and night.  He could see the accordion wire-topped lots from his hotel window.   E. Penrose

Response:

I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : Executive Office Of The President USA (NET-EOPNET-C1)    Room NEOB 4208    725 17th Street NW    Washington, DC 20503    US    Netname: EOPNET-C1    Netblock: 198.137.240.0 – 198.137.240.255    Coordinator:       (202) 395-6417    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    GATEKEEPER.EOP.GOV  198.137.241.3    SEC1.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.92.2    SEC2.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.93.2    Record last updated on 04-May-1999.    Database last updated on 4-Nov-2000 18:06:29 EDT.Path: news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.co m !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!church.o f .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Newsgroups: alt.support.survivors.prozac,alt.support.attn-deficit,alt.support.depressio n .medication,alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.manic,alt.society . mental-health,misc.kids.health,alt.parenting.solutions Organization: Mental Health Liberation Front Lines: 95 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.137.240.127 Keywords: Serzone Nefadar nefazodone Anafranil clomipramine Celexa Cipramil citalopram Luvox Floxyfral fluvoxamine Sarafem Prozac Fontex fluoxetine Zoloft sertraline Paxil paroxetine Effexor venlafaxine Lamictal lamotrigine Normud zimelidine Upstene indalpine Adapin Sinequan doxepin Amitid Elavil Endep amitriptyline Haldol haloperidol Vestra reboxetine Nembutol pentobarbital Pertrofrane desipramine Neurontin gabapentin Wellbutrin Zyban bupropion Nardil phenelzine Asendin amoxapine Tofranil imipramine Vivactil protriptyline Surmontin trimipramine Ludiomil maprotiline Norpramin desipramine Dutonin nefazodone Parnate Aventyl Pamelor nortriptyline tranylcypromine Desyrel trazodone Marplan isocarboxazid Remeron mirtazapine Aurorix Mannerix moclobemide Seroxat paroxetine Xanax alprazolam Klonopin clonazepam Tolvon minaserin Desyrel trazodone tranylcypromin St John’s Wort hypericin monoamine oxidase inhibitor selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor tricyclic antidepressant Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com alt.support.survivors.prozac:30014220 alt.support.attn-deficit:30119798 alt.support.depression.medication:30061886 alt.support.depression:30785838 alt.support.depression.manic:30146558 alt.society.mental-health:30017788 misc.kids.health:30040893 alt.parenting.solutions:30161942

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, to him I’d like to say…. Do NOT talk to me about hating Ritalin until you find yourself walking away and going on to the next task prematurely before even flushing the toilet, or putting on BOTH shoes instead of just one. Do not talk to me until you realize that you have run out of the house and gotten on a train before turning off the piolet light on the stove, or left the iron on, or left a cigarette burning. Do not talk to me until you see your life as a mile-high pile of thoughts that could never be sorted, and can barely think of having friends because you can never get organized enough to leave your house before dark! Do not talk to me until you find out that you will ALWAYS think this way unless you go to a shrink every month and get a "Controlled Substance" prescription ON PAPER because the DEA won’t allow it any other way. What Magical Herb do you have for me that I havent tried? I believe Ritalin saves my life and possibly my neighborhood everyday.  Ritalin does NOT make me feel great, I feel just possibly a tiny bit normal, possibly. To see how we feel, go without sleep for 48 hours and then make everything in your life a desparately important priority. The wired rushing around and confused thinking you are experiencing is how we feel everyday.  Go ahead try it, I dare you. Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Sincerily, Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ

Response:

Oh, well I certainly do not need another ADD’er living in this house! I am about all I can take.  Thanks for the advice.  Sounds like a real problem child, I can’t believe he’s not even in any position to talk! I’ll ignore him for now but next week I will try to track him down and get rid of him (from online, I mean). Susan

In this house we have more than one. We have had to find creative ways to cope But it’s not easy that’s for sure. — Norma Destination —- Procrastination

Response:

OH MY GOD! I DESPISE THE OUR GOVERNMENT!  I knew they would stoop to such lengths!  I will be away from my PC till Tuesday but believe me I intend to get to the bottom of this.  I have been on an anti-DEA crusade for over 5 years.  I can feel the chunks rising again. OA.EOP.GOV stands for Office of Administration, Executive Office of the President.  I do not know if this is an alius that wack-o was able to use or if its really them. Anyway, I’m infuriated, and voting for Bush STRICTLY because he’s been around the block a few times.  I love every piece of mind-altering scoop they get on him. Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ (So the DEA can find me better). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder what the FBI would say about his NNTP posting host : Executive Office Of The President USA (NET-EOPNET-C1)    Room NEOB 4208    725 17th Street NW    Washington, DC 20503    US    Netname: EOPNET-C1    Netblock: 198.137.240.0 – 198.137.240.255    Coordinator:       (202) 395-6417    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    GATEKEEPER.EOP.GOV  198.137.241.3    SEC1.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.92.2    SEC2.DNS.PSI.NET  38.8.93.2    Record last updated on 04-May-1999.    Database last updated on 4-Nov-2000 18:06:29 EDT.Path: news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.co m !newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!church.o f .scientology.org!lafayette.ronald.hubbard!UFO Newsgroups: alt.support.survivors.prozac,alt.support.attn-deficit,alt.support.depressio n .medication,alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.manic,alt.society . mental-health,misc.kids.health,alt.parenting.solutions Organization: Mental Health Liberation Front Lines: 95 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.137.240.127 Keywords: Serzone Nefadar nefazodone Anafranil clomipramine Celexa Cipramil citalopram Luvox Floxyfral fluvoxamine Sarafem Prozac Fontex fluoxetine Zoloft sertraline Paxil paroxetine Effexor venlafaxine Lamictal lamotrigine Normud zimelidine Upstene indalpine Adapin Sinequan doxepin Amitid Elavil Endep amitriptyline Haldol haloperidol Vestra reboxetine Nembutol pentobarbital Pertrofrane desipramine Neurontin gabapentin Wellbutrin Zyban bupropion Nardil phenelzine Asendin amoxapine Tofranil imipramine Vivactil protriptyline Surmontin trimipramine Ludiomil maprotiline Norpramin desipramine Dutonin nefazodone Parnate Aventyl Pamelor nortriptyline tranylcypromine Desyrel trazodone Marplan isocarboxazid Remeron mirtazapine Aurorix Mannerix moclobemide Seroxat paroxetine Xanax alprazolam Klonopin clonazepam Tolvon minaserin Desyrel trazodone tranylcypromin St John’s Wort hypericin monoamine oxidase inhibitor selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor tricyclic antidepressant Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com alt.support.survivors.prozac:30014220 alt.support.attn-deficit:30119798 alt.support.depression.medication:30061886 alt.support.depression:30785838 alt.support.depression.manic:30146558 alt.society.mental-health:30017788 misc.kids.health:30040893 alt.parenting.solutions:30161942 Well, to him I’d like to say…. Do NOT talk to me about hating Ritalin until you find yourself walking away and going on to the next task prematurely before even flushing the toilet, or putting on BOTH shoes instead of just one. Do not talk to me until you realize that you have run out of the house and gotten on a train before turning off the piolet light on the stove, or left the iron on, or left a cigarette burning. Do not talk to me until you see your life as a mile-high pile of thoughts that could never be sorted, and can barely think of having friends because you can never get organized enough to leave your house before dark! Do not talk to me until you find out that you will ALWAYS think this way unless you go to a shrink every month and get a "Controlled Substance" prescription ON PAPER because the DEA won’t allow it any other way. What Magical Herb do you have for me that I havent tried? I believe Ritalin saves my life and possibly my neighborhood everyday.  Ritalin does NOT make me feel great, I feel just possibly a tiny bit normal, possibly. To see how we feel, go without sleep for 48 hours and then make everything in your life a desparately important priority. The wired rushing around and confused thinking you are experiencing is how we feel everyday.  Go ahead try it, I dare you. Or actually I do have a spare room, you are welcome to come live here and observe.  I’ll even go off Ritalin for you and it’ll be a real kick!  You’ll love following me around turning things off, and watching me cry over never being able to find anything at all. You have an open invitation: I live in Kearny, NJ and I will pick you up at Newark airport anyday you’d like.  Stay for as long as you can stand! Sincerily, Susan Aschner Kearny, NJ

Response:

Question:

Sasha — Please do not change your doses on your own… go to your doctor…. If you present your situation (your complaints regarding how you feel), and you ask your doctor to work with you to make you feel your best both physiclly and emotionally, I am sure they will make the effort to work with you.

Yes, thanks, I’ve calmed down a bit now.  I have already reduced my zoloft to 150 mg, but we had already talked about doing that, so I just jumped the gun a little.  I’m going towait to discuss changes in the Ritalin at my appt next week.  The thing is, my pdoc likes to make changes one at a time so he will know exactly which drug is having the effect.  It may take awhile to get off the zoloft and see how I do for awhile, and maybe have to go back on again if it has a bad effect.  Ritalin may be quicker to see the effects. If, as you say, you are BP II, and weight gain and energy are concerns I would make the following recommendation: the Lithium (lithobid) could be replaced with either Topamax, Lamotrigine (Lamictil), or Neurontin (gabapentin). I would, personally, try the Topamax first — only because it is the one I have personal experience with and it has some tendancies for some people to cause weight loss (I have lost about 45 pounds in the year on it).

The thing is, there really was a big improvement with the lithium, and I am afraid to make a change.  Several years ago I was on depakote monotherapy which caused me to bruise easily and frequently, and to gain weight too.  So that didn’t seem to work very well, not to mention I went through several two week jobs while I was on it anyway.  So I’m a little wary of the seizure drugs.  Tose you mentioned are newer though, right?  I tried Neurontin breifly in addition to all the others I’m on, but it only contributed to my sleepiness, so It was stopped.  It’s a shame too, since even at a low dose it really seemed to help with my pain.  If Icould take that, then maybe I wouldn’t need anything additional for pain too.  I try not to take things for pain if I can help it, but anti-inflammitories actually seem to help with my energy, but I can’t take too many because it interferes with the lithium. The B-12 may help your energy, if it is a result of your anemia, however, I would alsoe suggest that you get your thyroid checked again — you may need an adjustment of the Synthroid to level out your energy levels.

I was hoping for awhile maybe These were the only problems and if I get them treated, then maybe I’m not really "crazy" after all.  But I don’t think it’s gonna turn out that way, and they will probably just find something else wrong with me anyway.  Besides that theory doesn’t account for the sudden change in energy from barely being able to move for weeks, and then one day I hardly need to sleep and find that I can move around very easily and rush to cram weeks worth of stuff into just a few days, before the gravity gets me again so I can’t move, etc… As for the Ritalin… that is a really difficult issue as ADD and BP II are nasty together… personally, my attention span is sometimes that of a wet noodle…:-) But, you must remember that Ritalin is an amphetamine — a powerful stimulant, and CAN destabalize the bi-polar mind. Once you get the Mood-Stabalizer checked out, and the thyroid… try and see how low a dose of Ritalin you can tolerate, and maintain your concentration. This may, in the long run, be very beneficial for you.

Actually, it doesn’t really seem to help me with concentration.  I’m beginning to think its something else besides ADD.  I need to talk with my neuroloist about it too to see what he thinks.  He has EEGs from before I was on it, and there is supposed to be something in that that can distinguish ADD.  He seemed surprised that I was taking it. Good luck, and please keep us posted. Peter

Thanks Sasha

Response:

What is does your diet consist of on the average, and what is your activity level? I’m on a couple of drugs, but I seem to have gotten very good results from diets principles of a Santa Barbara endocrinologist along with moderate daily walking.

I go for walks daily too now, although there are the times when I hardly have the strength to go to the mailbox, or am too paranoid to go outside. I’ve been well enough to go on walks for months now though.  The thing is I used to be very active, or at least during active spells.  Even in deep depression, I would get out of bed to go to dance class – the only thing I would do, it was that important to me.  A couple years ago I started having trouble breathing and got dizzy when I ran or biked for more than a couple minutes and had to abandon my workout.  I just figured I was out of shape and getting old.  Now I’m thinking it was probably the hypothyroid and pernicious anemia.  I was on a fairly good diet at the time. It’s hard to say what my average diet is because it changes in phases.  I don’t eat on a regular schedule, or take in a regular amount of calories from day to day, and that combined with the quality of food switch leads to a very inconsistent diet which probably screws with my blood sugar levels. I don’t eat much meat or fat, which leaves too many carbs, and in some phases too much sugar.  I do like fruits and vegetables though, and those are supposed to be good for you, right? I don’t know if a diet would help me much until I learn to become more consistent in my whole life.  There is a lot I need to work on, including paying bills and getting errands done, and soon going to class and getting assignments in on time.  The first thing I’ve been working on lately, is getting to all of my doctors appts and taking all of my medication on time, which takes a good deal of my concentration.   Thanks for the advice though Sasha

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sascha, Help!  I’m having urges lately to screw with my medication and reduce doses to eventually eliminate two of them.  Ok, heres what I’m on. Synthroid 25mcg Lithobid 900 mg Zoloft 200 mg Seroquel 25mg Ritalin 45mg Everything was going so well a few months ago with all these medications, but I was getting increasingly tired again, and had gained a little weight, so I complained.  Pdoc wanted to get rid of the seroquel –  didn’t work. What happened?

Paranoia, hypervigilence, dissociation, irritability, ultrawithdrawn, things looked/ seemed weird, etc… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last time he said start taking it every night again, and also take all my lithobid at night so maybe I wouldn’t be so tired throughout the day, then maybe next month we can try reducing the zoloft.  Ok, then I find out I have this pernicious anemia thing, and so I’m hoping maybe these vitamin B-12 shots will give me energy. They should help. But then I think back to when my thyroid was so low, and the synthroid was supposed to make me all better, which it seemed to for awhile, but then I got so very tired and sleepy again (perhaps I’m still cycling a little too?) so I think what if the same thing happens here? Perhaps it is time to have yout TSH level chcked

Yes I’m getting it checked later this week – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m getting very impatient.  I start school in like two weeks and I want to have energy and concentration for it!  I can’t wait to see if these shots fix everything and then the next illness comes along to wipe me out! Maybe I’m just taking too much medicine.  So I’ve already lowered my zoloft dose a little, but I want to go ahead and get rid of the ritalin too.  It hasn’t helped my concentration any, and it is no longer keeping me awake, so what good is it? Ask your doctr that question….he is the best source of info since he know your history.

I know, I’m just getting impatient.  I’m tempted to start reducing it already just to see.  I only have one week before I see the pdoc, so I guess maybe I should just wait.  I already made one change earlier than we had planned anyway, reducing my zoloft to 150 mg. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What if it’s actually making me sleepy now, like caffein does? Pdoc seems to think it should help me though.  I dunno.  And if I’m really BP ll then should I be taking lithium anyway?  I just want my brain to work better and be out of this hazy foggy state.  I know it can’t all be the drugs though, because I was sleeping just as much before I sought treatment. OK, that’s enough for now. Sascha, it sounds like a thorough medication evaluation is needes as well as some blood work. I can empathazie with your frustration as I have been there too . When was the last time tou had a complete physical exam? Perhaps the folloeing tests should be condisered: CBC with differential Electrolyte Panel BUN and Creatinine Serum Iron Lithium level

I’m scheduled to have my lithium and TSH checked.  My neurologist gave me a bunch of tests recently too, with only the vit B-12 screwed up.  Good luck with school.

Thanks, I’ll need it  May I ask what you will be studying? Well, about 5 years ago, I was two classes away from graduating with a BA in anthropology, but I freaked out manicstyle and did not complete my thesis or take my statistics final, and ran off and became a stripper instead. Brilliant huh?  Well, now I’m planning to finish up the degree, or the one in English which I was also very close to finishing, but I have to take these freshmen courses that are required here in CA before they will admit me as a senior.  So I’m going to summer school Sasha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Love, Lynda

Response:

What is does your diet consist of on the average, and what is your activity level? I’m on a couple of drugs, but I seem to have gotten very good results from diets principles of a Santa Barbara endocrinologist along with moderate daily walking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I’m having urges lately to screw with my medication and reduce doses to eventually eliminate two of them.  Ok, heres what I’m on. Synthroid 25mcg Lithobid 900 mg Zoloft 200 mg Seroquel 25mg Ritalin 45mg Everything was going so well a few months ago with all these medications, but I was getting increasingly tired again, and had gained a little weight, so I complained.  Pdoc wanted to get rid of the seroquel –  didn’t work. Last time he said start taking it every night again, and also take all my lithobid at night so maybe I wouldn’t be so tired throughout the day, then maybe next month we can try reducing the zoloft.  Ok, then I find out I have this pernicious anemia thing, and so I’m hoping maybe these vitamin B-12 shots will give me energy.  But then I think back to when my thyroid was so low, and the synthroid was supposed to make me all better, which it seemed to for awhile, but then I got so very tired and sleepy again (perhaps I’m still cycling a little too?) so I think what if the same thing happens here? I’m getting very impatient.  I start school in like two weeks and I want to have energy and concentration for it!  I can’t wait to see if these shots fix everything and then the next illness comes along to wipe me out!  Maybe I’m just taking too much medicine.  So I’ve already lowered my zoloft dose a little, but I want to go ahead and get rid of the ritalin too.  It hasn’t helped my concentration any, and it is no longer keeping me awake, so what good is it?  What if it’s actually making me sleepy now, like caffein does? Pdoc seems to think it should help me though.  I dunno.  And if I’m really BP ll then should I be taking lithium anyway?  I just want my brain to work better and be out of this hazy foggy state.  I know it can’t all be the drugs though, because I was sleeping just as much before I sought treatment. OK, that’s enough for now. Sasha

Response:

Sasha — Please do not change your doses on your own… go to your doctor…. If you present your situation (your complaints regarding how you feel), and you ask your doctor to work with you to make you feel your best both physiclly and emotionally, I am sure they will make the effort to work with you. If, as you say, you are BP II, and weight gain and energy are concerns I would make the following recommendation: the Lithium (lithobid) could be replaced with either Topamax, Lamotrigine (Lamictil), or Neurontin (gabapentin). I would, personally, try the Topamax first — only because it is the one I have personal experience with and it has some tendancies for some people to cause weight loss (I have lost about 45 pounds in the year on it). The B-12 may help your energy, if it is a result of your anemia, however, I would alsoe suggest that you get your thyroid checked again — you may need an adjustment of the Synthroid to level out your energy levels. As for the Ritalin… that is a really difficult issue as ADD and BP II are nasty together… personally, my attention span is sometimes that of a wet noodle…:-) But, you must remember that Ritalin is an amphetamine — a powerful stimulant, and CAN destabalize the bi-polar mind. Once you get the Mood-Stabalizer checked out, and the thyroid… try and see how low a dose of Ritalin you can tolerate, and maintain your concentration. This may, in the long run, be very beneficial for you. Good luck, and please keep us posted. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I’m having urges lately to screw with my medication and reduce doses to eventually eliminate two of them.  Ok, heres what I’m on. Synthroid 25mcg Lithobid 900 mg Zoloft 200 mg Seroquel 25mg Ritalin 45mg Everything was going so well a few months ago with all these medications, but I was getting increasingly tired again, and had gained a little weight, so I complained.  Pdoc wanted to get rid of the seroquel –  didn’t work. Last time he said start taking it every night again, and also take all my lithobid at night so maybe I wouldn’t be so tired throughout the day, then maybe next month we can try reducing the zoloft.  Ok, then I find out I have this pernicious anemia thing, and so I’m hoping maybe these vitamin B-12 shots will give me energy.  But then I think back to when my thyroid was so low, and the synthroid was supposed to make me all better, which it seemed to for awhile, but then I got so very tired and sleepy again (perhaps I’m still cycling a little too?) so I think what if the same thing happens here? I’m getting very impatient.  I start school in like two weeks and I want to have energy and concentration for it!  I can’t wait to see if these shots fix everything and then the next illness comes along to wipe me out!  Maybe I’m just taking too much medicine.  So I’ve already lowered my zoloft dose a little, but I want to go ahead and get rid of the ritalin too.  It hasn’t helped my concentration any, and it is no longer keeping me awake, so what good is it?  What if it’s actually making me sleepy now, like caffein does? Pdoc seems to think it should help me though.  I dunno.  And if I’m really BP ll then should I be taking lithium anyway?  I just want my brain to work better and be out of this hazy foggy state.  I know it can’t all be the drugs though, because I was sleeping just as much before I sought treatment. OK, that’s enough for now. Sasha

Response:

Hi Sascha, Help!  I’m having urges lately to screw with my medication and reduce doses to eventually eliminate two of them.  Ok, heres what I’m on. Synthroid 25mcg Lithobid 900 mg Zoloft 200 mg Seroquel 25mg Ritalin 45mg Everything was going so well a few months ago with all these medications, but I was getting increasingly tired again, and had gained a little weight, so I complained.  Pdoc wanted to get rid of the seroquel –  didn’t work.

What happened? Last time he said start taking it every night again, and also take all my lithobid at night so maybe I wouldn’t be so tired throughout the day, then maybe next month we can try reducing the zoloft.  Ok, then I find out I have this pernicious anemia thing, and so I’m hoping maybe these vitamin B-12 shots will give me energy.

They should help. But then I think back to when my thyroid was so low, and the synthroid was supposed to make me all better, which it seemed to for awhile, but then I got so very tired and sleepy again (perhaps I’m still cycling a little too?) so I think what if the same thing happens here?

Perhaps it is time to have yout TSH level chcked I’m getting very impatient.  I start school in like two weeks and I want to have energy and concentration for it!  I can’t wait to see if these shots fix everything and then the next illness comes along to wipe me out!  Maybe I’m just taking too much medicine.  So I’ve already lowered my zoloft dose a little, but I want to go ahead and get rid of the ritalin too.  It hasn’t helped my concentration any, and it is no longer keeping me awake, so what good is it?

Ask your doctr that question….he is the best source of info since he know your history.  What if it’s actually making me sleepy now, like caffein does? Pdoc seems to think it should help me though.  I dunno.  And if I’m really BP ll then should I be taking lithium anyway?  I just want my brain to work better and be out of this hazy foggy state.  I know it can’t all be the drugs though, because I was sleeping just as much before I sought treatment. OK, that’s enough for now.

Sascha, it sounds like a thorough medication evaluation is needes as well as some blood work. I can empathazie with your frustration as I have been there too . When was the last time tou had a complete physical exam? Perhaps the folloeing tests should be condisered: CBC with differential Electrolyte Panel BUN and Creatinine Serum Iron Lithium level  Good luck with school. May I ask what you will be studying? Love, Lynda

Response:

Help!  I’m having urges lately to screw with my medication and reduce doses to eventually eliminate two of them.  Ok, heres what I’m on. Synthroid 25mcg Lithobid 900 mg Zoloft 200 mg Seroquel 25mg Ritalin 45mg Everything was going so well a few months ago with all these medications, but I was getting increasingly tired again, and had gained a little weight, so I complained.  Pdoc wanted to get rid of the seroquel –  didn’t work. Last time he said start taking it every night again, and also take all my lithobid at night so maybe I wouldn’t be so tired throughout the day, then maybe next month we can try reducing the zoloft.  Ok, then I find out I have this pernicious anemia thing, and so I’m hoping maybe these vitamin B-12 shots will give me energy.  But then I think back to when my thyroid was so low, and the synthroid was supposed to make me all better, which it seemed to for awhile, but then I got so very tired and sleepy again (perhaps I’m still cycling a little too?) so I think what if the same thing happens here? I’m getting very impatient.  I start school in like two weeks and I want to have energy and concentration for it!  I can’t wait to see if these shots fix everything and then the next illness comes along to wipe me out!  Maybe I’m just taking too much medicine.  So I’ve already lowered my zoloft dose a little, but I want to go ahead and get rid of the ritalin too.  It hasn’t helped my concentration any, and it is no longer keeping me awake, so what good is it?  What if it’s actually making me sleepy now, like caffein does? Pdoc seems to think it should help me though.  I dunno.  And if I’m really BP ll then should I be taking lithium anyway?  I just want my brain to work better and be out of this hazy foggy state.  I know it can’t all be the drugs though, because I was sleeping just as much before I sought treatment. OK, that’s enough for now. Sasha

Response:

Question:

: : Meridia is a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, not an amphetamine.  The drugs are : not related directly, and there is not a "subjective" effect anywhere like : "bennies". Is "bennies" an accepted nick name for benzodiazepines?                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

*Bennies* is a street name for amphetamines in general and more specifically for *benzedrine*. Philip

Response:

: : Meridia is a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, not an amphetamine.  The drugs are : not related directly, and there is not a "subjective" effect anywhere like : "bennies". Is "bennies" an accepted nick name for benzodiazepines?                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Meridia is a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, not an amphetamine.  The drugs are not related directly, and there is not a "subjective" effect anywhere like "bennies". All drugs are scheduled for prescription purposes, it doesn’t mean that if it’s scheduled, it’s going to be addictive. The contraindications are true.  I took it for a while and have to give it up due to heart palpatations. Really, don’t blow off so much steam without more information. Respectively Fred

     You are right about sibutramine (Meridia) not being an amphetamine, however it’s not just an SSRI per se but a serotonin-norepinephrine, and to a lesser extent, dopamine reuptake inhibitor.  Meridia is not a monoamine releasing agent like amphetamine or some amphetamine congeners.  The potency of Meridia is said to be 73% norepinephrine, 54% serotonin, and 16% dopamine reuptake inhibition per one study using plasma samples from volunteers. Meridia does share some side effects with venlafaxine (Effexor) due to the potent effect on norepinephrine reuptake, such as sustained BP elevation. Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I saw a new one, apparently some new amphetamine to be used for weight loss called "Meridia".  The list of contraindications included high BP, (duh), heart disease, anyone taking medications for anxiety (!!!)….all of which makes it pretty useless for me. But here’s where my ears pointed up: "Meridia is a controlled substance, so there may be some limited dependence." or words to that effect, but I’m sure of the phrase "limited dependence". Aha!  So,…it’s not "addictive", it has "limited dependence".  This should be of interest to all of us who are accused of being "addicted" to benzos. Our clarification (beaten to death in this newsgroup) has hit the big time! E. Brent Price Brent, Really, you have jumped to some pretty naive conclusions from the tv advert. Meridia is a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, not an amphetamine.  The drugs are not related directly, and there is not a "subjective" effect anywhere like "bennies".

I beg to differ as a web search shows that Meridia (sibutramine) is *not* an SSRI and is *not* used for PAD. The manufacturer claims that it increases the amount of dopamine, increases the effect of serotonin and enhances the effect of norepinephrine "thus actually increasing the basal medtabolic rate. This means that with Meridia a patient will actually increase the amount of calories burned while at rest." If there is any link to anti-anxiety meds it’s with the TCA’s and not with the SSRI’s though I take it that this one works in a totally different way than TCA’s do. All drugs are scheduled for prescription purposes, it doesn’t mean that if it’s scheduled, it’s going to be addictive. The contraindications are true.  I took it for a while and have to give it up due to heart palpatations.

Did you take it for weight loss or for anxiety, Fred? Really, don’t blow off so much steam without more information. Respectively Fred

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The last couple of years here in the US, there has been a controversial explosion in prescription drug advertisements in the mass media.  I mean television ads, slick ads in magazines intended for the general public; not just professional journals. Most of the drugs are for things like hair loss, high BP, acid stomach, etc, and some you can’t hardly figure out what the hell the drug is supposed to be for.  They end urging you to contact your doctor, then (talking real fast) run through a list of contraindications. Last night I saw a new one, apparently some new amphetamine to be used for weight loss called "Meridia".  The list of contraindications included high BP, (duh), heart disease, anyone taking medications for anxiety (!!!)….all of which makes it pretty useless for me. But here’s where my ears pointed up: "Meridia is a controlled substance, so there may be some limited dependence." or words to that effect, but I’m sure of the phrase "limited dependence". Aha!  So,…it’s not "addictive", it has "limited dependence".  This should be of interest to all of us who are accused of being "addicted" to benzos. Our clarification (beaten to death in this newsgroup) has hit the big time! E. Brent Price

Well, what a difference a few days make!  Last night, an entirely *new* ad for Meridia appeared, totally different pictures, and almost the same voiceover except for this: "Patients who abuse Meridia may become dependent." So, here in the US, anti-drug mania still rules.  I can just imagine hoards of stockholders besieging the company with pitchforks and torches demanding an end to selling "addicting drugs".  Easy as pie, just make the patient responsible for the "addiction" by "abusing" it. This in a country that considers *any* use of an illegal drug "abuse". Smoke a half of a joint once a month? You are an abuser.  Who wants to bet that the therapeutic dosage of Meridia is equivalent to abuse? E. Brent Price

Response:

I’m reposting this because my message already dropped off of my crummy server.  Sorry if it’s a duplicate for you.  I get a lot of threads that start with "Re:…." and I seldom get responses to my posts.  I took it personal at first, but then decided it was either a lousy server exchange or

Hi Brent, Your post is not a duplicate for me. I have seen you post many times and people do respond to your posts!! Maybe like you said lousy server. Lately I am not recieving whole threads, and sometimes I have no idea what people are talking about. I always enjoy  your posts. Hopefully you get this one!! Jackie "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m reposting this because my message already dropped off of my crummy server.  Sorry if it’s a duplicate for you.  I get a lot of threads that start with "Re:…." and I seldom get responses to my posts.  I took it personal at first, but then decided it was either a lousy server exchange or I simply write in such crystal clear logic that nobody has anything to add or argue with.  Ya think?  Anyway, here’s that post: – The last couple of years here in the US, there has been a controversial explosion in prescription drug advertisements in the mass media.  I mean television ads, slick ads in magazines intended for the general public; not just professional journals. Most of the drugs are for things like hair loss, high BP, acid stomach, etc, and some you can’t hardly figure out what the hell the drug is supposed to be for.  They end urging you to contact your doctor, then (talking real fast) run through a list of contraindications. Last night I saw a new one, apparently some new amphetamine to be used for weight loss called "Meridia".  The list of contraindications included high BP, (duh), heart disease, anyone taking medications for anxiety (!!!)….all of which makes it pretty useless for me. But here’s where my ears pointed up: "Meridia is a controlled substance, so there may be some limited dependence." or words to that effect, but I’m sure of the phrase "limited dependence". Aha!  So,…it’s not "addictive", it has "limited dependence".  This should be of interest to all of us who are accused of being "addicted" to benzos. Our clarification (beaten to death in this newsgroup) has hit the big time! E. Brent Price

Brent, Really, you have jumped to some pretty naive conclusions from the tv advert. Meridia is a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, not an amphetamine.  The drugs are not related directly, and there is not a "subjective" effect anywhere like "bennies". All drugs are scheduled for prescription purposes, it doesn’t mean that if it’s scheduled, it’s going to be addictive. The contraindications are true.  I took it for a while and have to give it up due to heart palpatations. Really, don’t blow off so much steam without more information. Respectively Fred

Response:

I’m reposting this because my message already dropped off of my crummy server.  Sorry if it’s a duplicate for you.  I get a lot of threads that start with "Re:…." and I seldom get responses to my posts.  I took it personal at first, but then decided it was either a lousy server exchange or I simply write in such crystal clear logic that nobody has anything to add or argue with.  Ya think?  Anyway, here’s that post: – The last couple of years here in the US, there has been a controversial explosion in prescription drug advertisements in the mass media.  I mean television ads, slick ads in magazines intended for the general public; not just professional journals. Most of the drugs are for things like hair loss, high BP, acid stomach, etc, and some you can’t hardly figure out what the hell the drug is supposed to be for.  They end urging you to contact your doctor, then (talking real fast) run through a list of contraindications. Last night I saw a new one, apparently some new amphetamine to be used for weight loss called "Meridia".  The list of contraindications included high BP, (duh), heart disease, anyone taking medications for anxiety (!!!)….all of which makes it pretty useless for me. But here’s where my ears pointed up: "Meridia is a controlled substance, so there may be some limited dependence." or words to that effect, but I’m sure of the phrase "limited dependence". Aha!  So,…it’s not "addictive", it has "limited dependence".  This should be of interest to all of us who are accused of being "addicted" to benzos. Our clarification (beaten to death in this newsgroup) has hit the big time! E. Brent Price

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a pretty severe crash last week (cutting and all), I’m working my way back out.  But it seems like I’m climbing up a gravel cliff-little things seem to push me back down again.  I have no idea where the top is, but it’s a lot harder to get out each time I crash. My therapist thinks there’s something I’m not telling her, and my PDoc keeps upping my Zoloft dose.  He says that any other meds are a ’shot in the dark’ as to their effectiveness with me, and since Zoloft worked for me once (before I went off it-not recommended!), it should again, but I’m at double the dose now w/ no relief and the side effects are increasing. My wife is getting frustrated, since I’m such a burden when I crash, and it takes me *so* long to get back to ‘normal’.  She’s a rock, but after an episode, she tends to get a bit more upset with me since it builds up. At least I had one good realization while I was down: I felt that it *would* pass at some point.  That’s a first.  So score one for my sense of self-preservation. Thanks to all the asd’ers and grinchers that supported me last week.  I hope I didn’t bring you down. Mark "I was told that ‘Pain is just weakness escaping.’  Well, then I should be freakin’ Hercules by now."

 Mark, *Any* med is a shot in the dark.  The fact that Zoloft worked once, doesn’t mean it will work forever for you.  Since the side effects seem to be increasing and the Zoloft isn’t working, maybe it’s time to try something else.  You’re paying the pdoc for help, insist that you get it. chuck

Response:

After a pretty severe crash last week (cutting and all), I’m working my way back out.  But it seems like I’m climbing up a gravel cliff-little things seem to push me back down again.  I have no idea where the top is, but it’s a lot harder to get out each time I crash. My therapist thinks there’s something I’m not telling her, and my PDoc keeps upping my Zoloft dose.  He says that any other meds are a ’shot in the dark’ as to their effectiveness with me, and since Zoloft worked for me once (before I went off it-not recommended!), it should again, but I’m at double the dose now w/ no relief and the side effects are increasing. My wife is getting frustrated, since I’m such a burden when I crash, and it takes me *so* long to get back to ‘normal’.  She’s a rock, but after an episode, she tends to get a bit more upset with me since it builds up. At least I had one good realization while I was down: I felt that it *would* pass at some point.  That’s a first.  So score one for my sense of self-preservation. Thanks to all the asd’ers and grinchers that supported me last week.  I hope I didn’t bring you down. Mark "I was told that ‘Pain is just weakness escaping.’  Well, then I should be freakin’ Hercules by now."

Response: