Question:

i notice that when i do NYC races in central park (freddiemac 5K most recently) i become terribly asthmatic after about a mile.  i don’t have this problem in the NJ suburbs where i live and run other races. i am on asthma medications (serevent, flovent and nasonex.) and these do a good job for me. wondering if it’s the air quality in central park. -rei

Response:

wondering if it’s the air quality in central park.

It could very well be. I would think the ground level pollution is higher in NYC (more concentration of cars) than in the suburbs…particularly in the warmer months. For example, I used to have chronic bronchitus when I lived in the city.  When I moved to NJ the problem cleared up. Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

Question:

On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:09:40 GMT, "Lis" <liont…@ptd.net

wrote: Many people are able to do this, and the next best drug is the clonezapam, it’s also a narcotic (highly addictive).

Clonazepam is NOT a narcotic, but it does have addicting properties (best tapered off slowly).

Response:

On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:58:18 GMT, "DenoxiS" <denoxisTHISPARTISFORS…@hotmail.com

wrote: When we sleep with my girlfriend in the same bed, she kicks and sounds like she is going to cry. I hardly stop her and usually cannot have a good night sleep. I saw a program on TV about this sleep disorder and they said there are some medicine available for this. They didn’t give more specific information. Does anybody know anything about the medication? Does it work? Is it expensive?

The usual medicine used for PLMD is Klonopin. It has antiseizure and antianxiety effects. It has been around for many years, and is available generically (which means "inexpensive").

Response:

DenoxiS wrote:

Hi, When we sleep with my girlfriend in the same bed, she kicks and sounds like she is going to cry. I hardly stop her and usually cannot have a good night sleep. I saw a program on TV about this sleep disorder and they said there are some medicine available for this. They didn’t give more specific information. Does anybody know anything about the medication? Does it work? Is it expensive? TIA — – Deniz

Deniz…… before you start thinking of treatment with medicines, you have to diagnose the problem.  She should go to a doctor and be tested. Self treatment is dangerous. Regards Lee in Toronto ———–== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Uncensored Usenet News ==———-    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

Thanks for all the answers. Lee, sad thing is medication cost is an important decision maker on going to a doctor. Referring to the responses about the cost, I think we will see a doctor. I’ve never thought about self diagnose. Thanks for the warning. — – Deniz "Lee Babcock" <leebabc…@pathcom.com

wrote in message

news:3E451FD2.E9163DD4@pathcom.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

DenoxiS wrote: Hi, When we sleep with my girlfriend in the same bed, she kicks and sounds

like

she is going to cry. I hardly stop her and usually cannot have a good

night

sleep. I saw a program on TV about this sleep disorder and they said

there

are some medicine available for this. They didn’t give more specific information. Does anybody know anything about the medication? Does it

work?

Is it expensive? TIA — – Deniz Deniz…… before you start thinking of treatment with medicines, you have to diagnose the problem.  She should go to a doctor and be tested. Self treatment is dangerous. Regards Lee in Toronto ———–== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Uncensored Usenet News

==———-

   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers

=—–

Response:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:13:59 GMT, "DenoxiS" <denoxisTHISPARTISFORS…@hotmail.com

wrote: Lee, sad thing is medication cost is an important decision maker on going to a doctor. Referring to the responses about the cost, I think we will see a doctor.

A lot of them (particularly now) seem to know a bit about the cost of meds. An almost foolproof rule is "available as a generic" means considerably cheaper than "not available as a generic." Another one is "available as a generic for more than six months" means cheaper than "available as a generic for less than six months." The one glaring exception in the USA: tamoxifen. It’s all made by AstraZeneca, even if it is in a Barr bottle. (This is expected to change by the end of the month.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charlie Perrin wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:13:59 GMT, "DenoxiS" <denoxisTHISPARTISFORS…@hotmail.com wrote: Lee, sad thing is medication cost is an important decision maker on going to a doctor. Referring to the responses about the cost, I think we will see a doctor. A lot of them (particularly now) seem to know a bit about the cost of meds. An almost foolproof rule is "available as a generic" means considerably cheaper than "not available as a generic." Another one is "available as a generic for more than six months" means cheaper than "available as a generic for less than six months." The one glaring exception in the USA: tamoxifen. It’s all made by AstraZeneca, even if it is in a Barr bottle. (This is expected to change by the end of the month.)

Charlie so true. In Canada, many doctors have their prescription pads printed with a statement to issue generics if available. But then, we have a lot more generics here than in the US. If Beth is watching, what is the status of generics in Australia? Regards Lee in Toronto ———–== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Uncensored Usenet News ==———-    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

In Canada, many doctors have their prescription pads printed with a statement to issue generics if available. But then, we have a lot more generics here than in the US. If Beth is watching, what is the status of generics in Australia?

oh, we definately have generic brands widely available, in fact, there’s a push to get people to use the generics now.  Thing is, our medication is generally subsidised by the govt (not all, but a lot) and if the govt can get people to use cheaper brands, then they’re pushing people to do it. Which is fine by me, cause the generics are exactly the same save the packaging. — Beth in Australia =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tal wrote:

In Canada, many doctors have their prescription pads printed with a statement to issue generics if available. But then, we have a lot more generics here than in the US. If Beth is watching, what is the status of generics in Australia? oh, we definately have generic brands widely available, in fact, there’s a push to get people to use the generics now.  Thing is, our medication is generally subsidised by the govt (not all, but a lot) and if the govt can get people to use cheaper brands, then they’re pushing people to do it. Which is fine by me, cause the generics are exactly the same save the packaging. — Beth in Australia

Not quite true… The active ingredients are the same but colouring agents, preservatives, binders can be a little different. Regards Lee in Toronto ———–== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Uncensored Usenet News ==———-    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:04:23 -0500, Lee Babcock <leebabc…@pathcom.com

wrote: In Canada, many doctors have their prescription pads printed with a statement to issue generics if available.

The way they do it in the USA varies from state to state, but here’s how they do it in Texas. The doctor has two lines on the prescription pad and signs one of them:         Dispense As Written         Product Selection Permitted Then, off to the pharmacy… where they then ask you if you want the generic (if there is one). In some states, they make them write out "Dispense as Written" (which the drug industry doesn’t like as much).

Response:

Hi, When we sleep with my girlfriend in the same bed, she kicks and sounds like she is going to cry. I hardly stop her and usually cannot have a good night sleep. I saw a program on TV about this sleep disorder and they said there are some medicine available for this. They didn’t give more specific information. Does anybody know anything about the medication? Does it work? Is it expensive? TIA — – Deniz

Response:

Deniz, There are several medicines. See the last link below for a description of what they can do for you. My husband and I have gotten a "California King" sized bed to prevent the injury problem (we BOTH kick). And I once had such a quick movement with my arm that I gave him a black eye (I woke up the instant my knuckles connected with his head ). And then there’s the time that I dreampt that someone was knocking on the door and no one would answer it. I woke to find that My hand, flung over my head, was shaking, and knocking against the headboard. The problem we are discussing is called either Periodic Limb Movement Disorder (PLMD) if the movements are reflexive and repeated closely together. People who have this sometimes have an itchy or creepy-crawly sensation in their legs or arms before bed time (and sometimes in the day). I have that symptom (thought it was itchy varicose veins for a long time). My husband does not have that symptom. But he has another classic symptom: cramping at night, and legs that tighten up (toes curl upwards) and move up and down. It looks as if he were trying to ride a horse If it’s a single kick or an arm movement It’s Called Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS). It happens at a certain time during the falling-asleep-process (thus the black-eye story, above). I have both these problems. My husband has PLMD as far as I can tell. Either way, your girlfriend will have to see a sleep doctor for a sleep test and treatment if it is causing big problems, something that sufferers are surprised about if the problem doesn’t wake THEM up. Most people find out about such problems from their sleep partners. My husband has always refused testing and treatment, thus the really big bed . All our cuddling happens while awake, because if we sleep "spooning," someone either gets woken in pain, or wakes up with bruises the next morning. Sleep disorders often come in groups. The sleep test is vital to discover if your friend had some other problems (such as a certain breathing problem while sleeping, called apnea, which is sometimes accompanied by these problems). If you have trouble convincing your friend that she needs to see a Doctor for a referral to a sleep doctor/center for a "sleep test," try filming her at night as she sleeps, with her permission. She might be surprised to see herself beating you up in her sleep. There are some things she can do to lessen her problems on her own, if this is indeed the problem I’m talking about. I’m going to list those things as I wrote them to another sufferer (who also got severe leg cramps) last week or so: 1. Melatonin works to induce sleep. This sometimes helps you sleep through cramps. It is fairly safe and non-addictive. Benadryl brand antihistimine (and the generic brands, too) can induce deep enough sleep to over-ride the symptoms. Many people are able to do this, and the next best drug is the clonezapam, it’s also a narcotic (highly addictive). 2. Move your body. Get walking or leg exercise during the day. If you have an attack at night, get up and move a round a bit, then try again to sleep. Experiment with exercise times, as it takes a different routine with different timing (in relation to bedtime) for each person who suffers from this disorder. 3. Lose weight if you need to. Attacks are fewer and less severe when we weigh less. 4. For some people, heat helps. Try a hot water bottle, bed socks, a heating pad or a hot bath before bed. 5. Do as much as you can to be very sleepy before you go to bed. Do as much as you can to fall asleep quickly. The longer it takes to fall asleep, the more likely it is that you’ll be woken by the cramping. So, take hot baths or showers to relax you. 6. Develop good "sleep hygiene," which means do not use your bed to do anything but sleep in (no TV, reading, exercising, radio, etc…). Go to bed on a rigid schedule. Develop a bedtime routine that you can take with you wherever you go. If you cannot sleep, get out of bed and do something quietly until you are sleepy again. This trains your body to go to sleep as soon as you are in bed, and not wait for something interesting to happen . 7.Learn meditation and relaxation skills. They help. 8.Check with a dietitian to see what you can do with your diet to lessen leg cramps (get lots of potassium, magnesium, calcium, etc.). 9. Get educated! Educate your Physician. There are some links on this page (same tips, but it saves me typing web addresses):  http://www.anchorweb.com.au/sleepdisorders/RLS.htm And to add to those links, this is the Restless Leg Support Group homepage: http://www.rlshelp.org/  They are in Southern California, but there is a ton of really good informationon that page. I highly reccomend it. Good Luck! Lis "DenoxiS" <denoxisTHISPARTISFORS…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:KCY0a.43775$ce4.11927096@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, When we sleep with my girlfriend in the same bed, she kicks and sounds

like

she is going to cry. I hardly stop her and usually cannot have a good

night

sleep. I saw a program on TV about this sleep disorder and they said there are some medicine available for this. They didn’t give more specific information. Does anybody know anything about the medication? Does it

work?

Is it expensive? TIA — – Deniz

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect. My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation? Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection? It’s the strangest thing I ever heard. Because methylphenidate isn’t the same as L-dopa and it isn’t effective against tremors from parkinsons. So it’s strange…

<G I do not care if it is "coincidental"….or even placebo….as long as it works <g  But, from what I understand, doesn’t methylphenidate work on the dopamine levels in the patient? Besides, parkinsons is not the same thing as essential tremor…though it does appear that having ET might increase the chances of getting parkinson’s… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_tremor Mine currently is only in my hands (as is my mother’s)…my grandfather’s was in in hands, his arms, and showed up in his gait as well…the weird thing is, it shows up when I am "at rest," but when I do something with my hands (such as play guitar), I do not tremble as much (i.e,. when my hands are resting against the guitar, they might tremble a bit, but when then are pressed down to hold a chord, the whole guitar is not shaking, and the hand stops shaking). — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Does the shaking go away when you stop taking the Adderall? Priscilla

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

It sounds like the Prozac to me – that’s what has changed.

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2

Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation?

Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection? — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation? Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection?

It’s the strangest thing I ever heard. Because methylphenidate isn’t the same as L-dopa and it isn’t effective against tremors from parkinsons. So it’s strange… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

Question:

Went fine I think.  PDoc recommended Lexpro instead of Celexa – said less side effects I started yesterday and continued today.  No bad stuff yet.  :)  Hope there isn’t any to come….. He said 3-4 days 1/2 lex pill = 5mg. with 1/2 my zoloft dosage Then go up to 10mg. almost 2 days down already! thanks,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :I meed with the doc tomorrow.  Called this morning and got an appt. – what :luck How did your appt go? I hope well. Tell us about it Jackie ~*~I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what~*~           ~Harper Lee~     ~~To Kill a Mockingbird~~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:I started yesterday and continued today.  No bad stuff yet.  :)  Hope there :isn’t any to come….. : :He said 3-4 days 1/2 lex pill = 5mg. with 1/2 my zoloft dosage :Then go up to 10mg. : :almost 2 days down already! Glad it`s going well. Good luck with the lexapro, I hope it works out for you Jackie ~*~Every time you are tempted to react in the same old way, ask if you want to be a prisoner of the past or a pioneer of the future~*~    ~ Deepak Chopra ~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I meed with the doc tomorrow.  Called this morning and got an appt. – what luck

Hope the appointment is productive! Let us know how it goes. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:I meed with the doc tomorrow.  Called this morning and got an appt. – what :luck How did your appt go? I hope well. Tell us about it Jackie ~*~I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It’s when you know you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what~*~             ~Harper Lee~     ~~To Kill a Mockingbird~~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks Anne and Jacqueline for the followups. I meed with the doc tomorrow.  Called this morning and got an appt. – what luck Hope you are well.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :I went to sleep and was startled awake probably 10 times the first hour. I :kept startling MYSELF awake. When my anxiety and panic is really bad, this is what happens to me. Some nights it was so bad that I couldn`t sleep at all. It was like my body just couldn`t relax, it was so use to being tense. :The funny thing is that there really isn’t :anything stressful going on in my life right now.  Things are looking up, :got some nice trips planned with my wife. Makes no sense, huh I`ve had times in my life where there was no reason to be anxious or panicky, I just was. Then times…. when I should have been paralyzed by anxiety due to lifes stressors, that it didn`t rear it`s ugly head. :It just feels like lately a "grim :reaper" type of feeling keeps pecking at me, ruining all the good times – :making everything difficult. When you get to this point, changes have to be made. No need to suffer like this when something could help. :The doc said that I’d cut my zoloft dose by 50% and take a 50% dose of :celexa for a few weeks and then see what happens. : :Anyone else make this switch and have any comments? I`ve never made a switch like this, but many others have with great success. Good luck and I hope you see some positive changes soon Jackie ~*~Yes there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there’s still  time to change the road you’re on~*~" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:I went to sleep and was startled awake probably 10 times the first hour.  I :kept startling MYSELF awake.   When my anxiety and panic is really bad, this is what happens to me. Some nights it was so bad that I couldn`t sleep at all. It was like my body just couldn`t relax, it was so use to being tense. :The funny thing is that there really isn’t :anything stressful going on in my life right now.  Things are looking up, :got some nice trips planned with my wife. Makes no sense, huh I`ve had times in my life where there was no reason to be anxious or panicky, I just was. Then times…. when I should have been paralyzed by anxiety due to lifes stressors, that it didn`t rear it`s ugly head. :It just feels like lately a "grim :reaper" type of feeling keeps pecking at me, ruining all the good times – :making everything difficult. When you get to this point, changes have to be made. No need to suffer like this when something could help. :The doc said that I’d cut my zoloft dose by 50% and take a 50% dose of :celexa for a few weeks and then see what happens. : :Anyone else make this switch and have any comments? I`ve never made a switch like this, but many others have with great success. Good luck and I hope you see some positive changes soon Jackie ~*~Yes there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there’s still  time to change the road you’re on~*~" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi all, I wrote recently about how I’ve been on zoloft for 8 years and tried to taper off 2 times.  Last year I weaned back up to my normal dose of zoloft, but still things don’t seem very good.  I am doing ok during the days, but when evening comes, I start to feel the anxiety setting in.  Last night I took a xanax to help with it, and it was still pretty bad.  I haven’t been sleeping well lately so I’ll take a tylenol pm too. I went to sleep and was startled awake probably 10 times the first hour.  I kept startling MYSELF awake.  I wake up feeling about 80% ok.  the other 20% is that oh-so dark feeling.  The funny thing is that there really isn’t anything stressful going on in my life right now.  Things are looking up, got some nice trips planned with my wife.  It just feels like lately a "grim reaper" type of feeling keeps pecking at me, ruining all the good times – making everything difficult. The doc said that I’d cut my zoloft dose by 50% and take a 50% dose of celexa for a few weeks and then see what happens. Anyone else make this switch and have any comments? thanks, Phil — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The doc said that I’d cut my zoloft dose by 50% and take a 50% dose of celexa for a few weeks and then see what happens.

I did that with Paxil– Celexa, Phil.  I tapered down on the Paxil slowly (Verrrrry slowly!) from 30 mg per day to 10 mg.  I began to feel some breakthrough depression then, so my pdoc switched me immediately to 10 mg Celexa (discontinuing the Paxil) and I weaned up to 20 mg Celexa. This worked very well for me. I did have to wait a bit longer for the Celexa to address all my issues (depression in particular) than I had with the Paxil originally, but it was worth it — a great med for me, with almost no side effects. I hope the switch will work for you. It’s definitely better than going cold turkey off the Zoloft. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

 you all should check out this web address, it is the journal of a schizophrenic…its amazing… http://www.h13.com <I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find <the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. A Shawneie forgery as about 2/3 of the posts today are. She is pissed off that her schemes were exposed and I refuse to allow her to use her sock puppets to hide behind so she is taking it out on everyone. Yes, she is having a very bad day.

LOL.. Poor pauly boy..

Response:

I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. When my dau. was diagnosed with severe TS almost 3 yrs. ago, we chose to medicate.  Her tics were so that she could not attend school.  She had a loud hiccup type tic every 3 sec. of every waking moment.  Her tics went on from there.  I saw a picture of her at Christmas time when she was about in third grade where I actually took a picture of her in the middle of one of her tics.  I didn’t realize it was TS then.  I did go to m.d. about it, but they said, bad habits. So went to full gambit.  Seroquel, Respiradol, Zyprexia, Clonidine, Tenex, Klonopin, Geodon and  antidepressants–Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Prozac.  After all of that, my dau. is not presently on any medications.  By this summer, she had had it and we pulled her off her present medications of Prozac and Geodon.  As soon as we deleted Prozac, my old dau. emerged.  She was a ticcing old dau., but her old personality resurfaced.  It was like a miracle to us.  She traded dealing with ticcing rather than being spaced out, drugged out, crazed out by drugs that she had no control over her reactions to.  Three years later she is learning to live with her ticcing, learning to deal with the teasing she had received in middle school (she hardly attended school at all during her middle school years).  She has developed a harder crust.  She no longer self-mutilates, but still tics a great deal and I drive4 her crazy–such as breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc.  My noises and mannerisms sends her into tail spins. If I had known that Prozac was having the negative impact on her, I would have demanded she be taken off of it.  I think many of us parents are just so desperate to return our children to what we view as normalcy.  I never realized how this med was affecting her.  I just thought she was mentally decompensating more.  Especially with antidepressants, you have to watch out for weight gain and ones that could make you tic more, such as Zoloft and Wellbutrin.  It is so complicated and scarey to medicate to kids.  They are often unable to fully explain to the medicating docs how the medications are truly affecting them. The child often wants the medications to work so bad that they are initially willing to put up with anything that could help them deal with the tics. Then it is further complicated by the philosophical treatment of the neuros vs. the psychiatrists.  It is also dependent on if you have a doctor in any field that has any real experience with TS.  It is just very scarey out there for both the parent and the TS child.  I know first hand.  Been there and done that. I think it took me awhile to come to terms with my daughter’s diagnosis of TS.  I see so many parents making comments, that "my beautiful, gifted, child has TS."  They feel that somehow their child has been blighted.  I know I fell into that trap too.  It just takes awhile for us parents to accept the pronounced changes that happen when a child has TS.  Their ticcing driving you crazy; their not being able to attend school sometimes; their being upset when kids tease them; their being depressed because their lives will never be the ame–they just want to be "normal" like everyone else.  Let’s face it, in adolescents, especially, it is like a kiss of death to be thought of as different.  All of the peer pressure is staggering to a TS child. Would I do what I did if I had to do it over again, probably.  Because I must remember where we were at three years ago–so desperate, so unwilling to accept what was my daughter’s plight.  Were we misguided–perhaps.  We we desperate–yes.  We just had to try to do anything we could go help her, good or bad, only to come to full circle and take all of the medications away.  The ironies of life. Dawnee Dawnee

Response:

Question:

Hi Mark,   I am a third year pharmacy student at the University of Illinois.  I read your letter last week about Zoloft side effects, and would like to respond to it.  I don’t know when you started taking Zoloft but what you should know is that in order for the medication to work you have to take it for at leat 3-4 weeks.  Usually physicians will give you another medication to take concurrently with Zoloft to cover you until it will start working. Klonopin is sometimes used for this purpose.  I looked up some links for you, so you could get some extra information about both meds.  If you have some time, look at: http://www.fairlite.com/ocd/medications/zoloft.shtml This link has a list of all side effects of zoloft that were ever reported.  I checked the list and 2.6% of population experience anxiety.  (the entire article is kind of long so please scroll down).  Some other nice links about your medications are: http://www.begin.com/redoak/medications/klonopin.html http://www.pfizer.com/hml/pi’s/zoloftpi.html  Before you stop Zoloft – inform you physician.  Recently, there were many reports about Zoloft withdrawal syndrome.  This means you cannot just stop, you have to decrease the doses day by day, and then stop.  There is a link that explains it: http://www.pharminfo.com/pin_hp.html  I hope the information I suggested will be helpful to you, but I cannot make any guarantees as to its accuracy, completeness, usefulness, or relevance to your particular situation.  There is no substitute for having an ongoing, two-way dialogue with a licensed health professional whom you know and trust. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am using Zoloft and feel anxiety and confusion with my other medication Klonopin. Can you help me? I am concerned this is not normal and I dont know what to expect. I am much better but I just don

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. What you are describing is very familiar to me.  I’ve experienced these strange "electric shock" symptoms whenever _withdrawing_ from a trial of a serotonergic antidepressant (i.e. most recently Effexor,  previously the SSRI’s Luvox and Prozac, and long before that the MAOI’s Parnate and Nardil).  Effexor is the worst for producing this due to the fact of its very short half-life compared to other serotonergic antidepressants (i.e. its blood levels fall off rather quickly following the last dose, resulting in withdrawal symptoms even when taking it regularly as prescribed).  Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one). [BTW:  My current regimen includes immediate release Effexor (~65 mg/day) plus Luvox (175 mg/day).] Sodah

The roller coaster affect was minimized by the XR form for myself. Effexor is an SNRI. Some basic differences in how it works, compared to SSRI’s. zszszszszszszszsZZZZZZZZIT!!!  (goes my brain as I type)

Response:

Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one).

I’ve been on Effexor XR for about a year now, and I still get brain shivers (I call them "Effexor buzzies").  They’re the most pronounced when I’m overtired, late with a dose, or stressed. I also have great difficulty in reaching orgasm.  This has gotten progressively worse over the course of the year.  Last summer I was up to 450 mg/day.  I gradually reduced this to 225 mg/day, but the orgasmic difficulty hasn’t really changed. — Bluebird

Response:

I have been both on the Effxor and Effxor-XR and have had no trouble in the sexual area. I am able to function normally. Maybe this makes me not normal. Oh joy something else to be paranoid about. Dose is 75mg 3 times daily – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I also have great difficulty in reaching orgasm.  This has gotten progressively worse over the course of the year.  Last summer I was up to 450 mg/day.  I gradually reduced this to 225 mg/day, but the orgasmic difficulty hasn’t really changed. — Bluebird

Response:

I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right?

Sorta. I spend a lot of time in bed. I doze off pretty quick. Lots of ‘waking’ type dreams though. Those ones where you are dreaming, then ‘wake’ up. Only to find you are only dreaming you are awake? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so.

The electrical firings started when I discontinued Zoloft 4 or so years ago. I figure I’ll have them several times a day for the rest of my life. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’

Yah. I also get a very strong ’startle’ reaction with an adrenaline rush when I hear any sudden noise or see something sudden. But, I got those when I was really depressed in the hospital before any meds had really taken effect. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of.

Maybe they’ll go away, eventually. I remember self-medicating with speed back in the late 60’s when it was legal. It took over 5 years to get over the ’speed rushes’ and the ’speed’ smell on my skin when I got angry. The drug DID work. For awhile. But coming down…. yechhhh… bad scene. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped.

I’ve got it pretty severe now. I just crawl into bed. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug.

This sounds kinda familiar. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life.

All in all, my experience with meds in the last 5/6 years has not been good. I suppose they kept me alive. But sort of like a vegetable. Somehow, I lost myself. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

I had a doc that denied that any of these affects could be caused by the meds. I checked it out in the PDR, photocopied it and showed it to him. He just shrugged and said "Oh." I don’t trust the majority of GP’s to have real knowledge of these meds. I suppose they just push the one the latest drug rep was in to see them about. Back to bed….

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. A testosterone level of 495 ng/dL is, indeed, in the normal range, but not exceedingly high. The normal range is 300 to 1000. At a level of 300, the desire for sex will happen for most guys about once every two weeks to a month. At 1000, very other day, or even daily. The effects vary. Some men get more libido out of a lower level than others. Testosterone level also varies as much as 100 ng/dL over the course of the day. It is highest in the morning and lowest in the evening. If the blood for your 495 was drawn in the morning, then it is even closer to the lower limit of normal. As for it wearing off, that is normal. Injected testosterone peaks in 2-3 days, then tapers off straight-line over the following two weeks. At the end of two weeks, it is gone. Guys on shots usually have a shot every two weeks. I self-inject, so I give myself half the dosage, but weekly. This way the shots overlap and I get a more even level. My doc says he prescribes testosterone replacement therapy for any patient who tests below 300, and even for a few above that. My advice is to find a different doc. Part of the problem is that your doc is a "family doctor," not a urologist. Family practitioners frquently don’t feel sexual dysfunction problems are worth treating. Sometimes I wish I could let them see what it is like to lose sexual desire. They’d change their tune fast, I bet. A urologist will take your problems seriously. It may be caused by more than just lack of testosterone. A urologist will know more options and therapies. Get to one right away and get your life back. NOTICE: The e-mail address is deliberately incorrect. Make the ISP read "spiritone.com" by adding an "e."

John, thanks for the info. Incidentally, the testosterone test was given in the morning. Hey, Iv’e got another question for you. How much does testosterone cost? Is it much cheaper to self inject and are doctors reluctant to allow their patients to do this? Thanks Mike

Response:

This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!

Not really, most people do just fine on it. Hardly any side effects at all and any there are clear up shortly after the medication is stopped. People with severe side effects are in the minority; people with long-lasting side effects are rare.

Response:

I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned

everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head Something’s wrong with the doc. If the shots returned you to normal, this should be looked into. When did he take the test? Your testosterone levels are higher in the AM. I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out

to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike Good. Please let us know what happens. — Jerry Sturdivant

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

Sounds a lot like LSD flashbacks (knowledge from my hippy days in the 60’s) -Fred-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later. Sounds a lot like LSD flashbacks (knowledge from my hippy days in the 60’s) -Fred-

Funny ou should say that because I heard somewhere that this stuff is derived from hallucinagenic drugs.

Response:

[...] I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

What you are describing is very familiar to me.  I’ve experienced these strange "electric shock" symptoms whenever _withdrawing_ from a trial of a serotonergic antidepressant (i.e. most recently Effexor,  previously the SSRI’s Luvox and Prozac, and long before that the MAOI’s Parnate and Nardil).  Effexor is the worst for producing this due to the fact of its very short half-life compared to other serotonergic antidepressants (i.e. its blood levels fall off rather quickly following the last dose, resulting in withdrawal symptoms even when taking it regularly as prescribed).  Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one). [BTW:  My current regimen includes immediate release Effexor (~65 mg/day) plus Luvox (175 mg/day).] Sodah

Response:

snipped I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Why have you stopped the Effexor cold turkey?

Prescription ran out. If your doctor has suggested this, or it’s your own idea, then you are following the advise of a mediocally incompetant idiot! Please seek competent medical avise asap.

I’ve kinda given up on the medical profession. I’ll just weather this out. So far so good. I am not working at the moment so I don’t have to be physically and mentally functioning. Sleep works OK. If it’s your own idea, then you need to re-think this. Apart from the psychological damage this may be causing, there is a risk of physical complications.

Possibly. But right now, all I want is not to have any meds in me. Ian

BTW, I DO NOT recommend doing what I am doing to anyone else.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday.

A testosterone level of 495 ng/dL is, indeed, in the normal range, but not exceedingly high. The normal range is 300 to 1000. At a level of 300, the desire for sex will happen for most guys about once every two weeks to a month. At 1000, very other day, or even daily. The effects vary. Some men get more libido out of a lower level than others. Testosterone level also varies as much as 100 ng/dL over the course of the day. It is highest in the morning and lowest in the evening. If the blood for your 495 was drawn in the morning, then it is even closer to the lower limit of normal. As for it wearing off, that is normal. Injected testosterone peaks in 2-3 days, then tapers off straight-line over the following two weeks. At the end of two weeks, it is gone. Guys on shots usually have a shot every two weeks. I self-inject, so I give myself half the dosage, but weekly. This way the shots overlap and I get a more even level. My doc says he prescribes testosterone replacement therapy for any patient who tests below 300, and even for a few above that. My advice is to find a different doc. Part of the problem is that your doc is a "family doctor," not a urologist. Family practitioners frquently don’t feel sexual dysfunction problems are worth treating. Sometimes I wish I could let them see what it is like to lose sexual desire. They’d change their tune fast, I bet. A urologist will take your problems seriously. It may be caused by more than just lack of testosterone. A urologist will know more options and therapies. Get to one right away and get your life back. NOTICE: The e-mail address is deliberately incorrect. Make the ISP read "spiritone.com" by adding an "e."

Response:

snipped I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day.

Why have you stopped the Effexor cold turkey? If your doctor has suggested this, or it’s your own idea, then you are following the advise of a mediocally incompetant idiot! Please seek competent medical avise asap. If it’s your own idea, then you need to re-think this. Apart from the psychological damage this may be causing, there is a risk of physical complications. Ian Phobias:  Carnophobia- Fear of meat.

Response:

I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day.

Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated.

Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now.

For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back.

I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

Hi Mike: Well, here is an oppinion, but I have done alot of research on Effexor before I had been put on it. I had been on, then off it..horrible side effects..then on it as of last month, and will most likely be coming off of it due to a notice in weight gain after longer term use. Out of all the research I did on Medline, I found no studies indicating a "permanent" problem with sexual dysfunction. I had combed through well over hundreds of studies. I had also checked all of the archives of dejanews, and never came across this effect. Your best bet, as you said, would be to see a urologist. I know it took me some time to get my sexual "urge" back after I went off it the first time, and even much of that was "physical". You are right..sex and even the "urge" are wonderful things..and you have every right to get it back. Odds are, with some help, you will get back to "normal" no problem at all. Best of luck… James — Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.     —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, D.C. Neurosis is simply THE human condition; some just haven’t realized it yet. Anon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!  It also sounds like you shouldn’t be driving with side effects like those you describe. Have you talked to your doctor about this? -Fred-

I’ve only driven a few times in the last three months and not far. Best way to describe the feeling is I’m like a passenger and the driver is gradually crossing the line without seeming aware. After a time, I realize he isn’t going to turn so I have to reach over and turn the wheel for him. Yes, I’m staying off the roads right now. hehe I’ve given up on the pdoc/doc thing. Just obtained the repeats for the meds in the last 2 months. None left now. I’m thinking of going it alone like I have most of my life. Long, involved story here and I don’t really want to get into it on the ng. The effexor was effective in lifting me off the 2 lowest steps of a 10 step ‘depression’ continuum. But it left me stranded on the 8 th. for 6 months. Right now I have the emotions of a rutabaga. Very flat. (Still kept my humour though. It’ll stay with me to the end… even if it is gallows humour… hehehe) I’m sleeping about 16 – 18 hours a day in 2 to 4 hour segments now to get over the worst of the effects.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. <snip <snip A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back.

This is extremely dangerous from what I know. My pdoc told me that Effexor has the strongest withdrawal symptoms on the market! You should ALWAYS wean yourself down slowly. To go from 300mg to nothing cold-turkey is very dangerous! I was taking 450mg/day and my pdoc had me reduce my dosage very slowly….decreasing by 75mg every 3 or 4 days. PLEASE be careful and check with your doctor…I can’t believe that he or she would have told you to quit cold turkey! K "x-no-archive: yes" followed by a blank line: tells some newsgroup archiving websites like DejaNews to not archive posts. This statement at the top of the post helps to protect people’s privacy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!  It also sounds like you shouldn’t be driving with side effects like those you describe. Have you talked to your doctor about this? -Fred-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head

   When a doctor says "it’s in your head", that’s your cue to say, "*You* are just bullshitting me with that crap because you don’t know what my problem is or how to solve it, but still want to collect a fat consultation fee for not doing anything. Fuck off, and have a rotten day."    Find another doc. which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

 innate need of most humans to have an Alpha leader tell them what to do.  They like the idea of creating one via an "election". It’s a vicarious,  Frankenstein-esque dependancy enablement syndrome. — Bill Kasper =====

Response:

P.S. I let another pdoc to prescribe it anyway and lasted 2 weeks with the effects. Yuck. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson.

Response:

I had a pdoc say he did not want to put me on it because studies are showing "permanent" rises in blood pressure. I do not have high blood pressure now. I hope that is not "permanent" condition with you. major bummer. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson.

Response:

Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect.

I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

Dear Mike, I’m sorry to hear about this. That is – literally – no fun at all. I haven’t heard this before about Effexor but I know that with Paxil there is this possibility that side effects like  anorgasmia or libido-loss may stay for an indefinite amount of time after the med is stopped. I have nothing to say about this except that I hope it will pass. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

Response:

Question:

says… It hardly seems fair that those who guard our health do so at this kind of price. Without blaming all such woes on lifestyle, I do wish doctoring were a less heroic and more comfortable thing. Good luck — Julianne

In Australia, we don’t tend to glorify doctors — at least general practitioners.In many ways it’s just another job. This has its advantages and disadvantages. People don’t believe we are superhuman; they feel free to ask us questions if they don’t understand something. I’m sure if you scratch any American doctor, you’d find a patient of some type; and also a person — unless you’ve begun cloning your MDs (which, from reading some of the stories here, I would believe!) Ciao, Raymot ======= Brisbane, Australia [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

Response:

It hardly seems fair that those who guard our health do so at this kind of price. Without blaming all such woes on lifestyle, I do wish doctoring were a less heroic and more comfortable thing. Good luck — Julianne

Response:

Hi All, Ok, here’s the post about my headaches. I have always had tension headaches. I used to be rarely without them — just sometimes they were worse than others. I’ve tried all sorts of medications over the years — and being a physician myself, I can prescribe for myself what I think I need (except for narcotics, and controlled drugs). This year my headaches have dramatically reduced, I think due to several reasons. Firstly, I decided not to feel guilty about self-prescribing the drugs I needed. Secondly, I got a second opinion about not feeling guilty about self- prescribing the drugs I needed. The drugs I’m taking are Zoloft (sertraline) 100mg/day, Xanax (alprazolam) 1mg/day (a small dose, but it works), and Digesic (dextropropoxyphene + paracetamol) as necessary (usually ~ 3-4/day) Adequate and regular sleep is essential for me. I am using a mouth splint at night (to stop snoring and to stop teeth-grinding). This really helps lessen the headaches, and is as important as the drugs. After having a $300 splint fall apart, I made one myself out of a $7.95 sports mouthguard. The essential features are that it stops the bruxism, and acts as a mandibular advancement splint (insofar as I have an overbite, and with the splint I can’t close my teeth together fully, so my airway stays more open.) I also believe the texture of the splint takes some pressure off the clenching muscles — temporalis and masseters etc. It’s springy and pushes back. I’m really amazed at the difference a hunk of rubber between my teeth at nighttime can make to the severity of those waking headaches. In order of importance, I would say the following factors have contributed to the significant improvement in my tension headaches: 1) Zoloft;  2) Mouth splint at night;  3) Xanax;   4) Adequate Sleep; 5) Digesic – Analgesics. Note, this is only a personal story. It won’t work for everyone, and I’m not suggesting it in the capacity of a physician. But it’s worked for me and I can honestly say that I can go for most of the day without a headache sometimes! Ciao, Raymot ======= Brisbane, Australia [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

Response:

Question:

if you are taking effexor and are thinkin of going off for whatever reason, or have thought of trying it out, please be advised that the side effects of going off can be horrendous. have watched friends go off other anti-depress. meds to try newer meds and tho they have reactions (either depression before new med kicks in, or side effects of new drug) they have not had the physical reactions we are having. spoilered for talk of physical reactions, just in case it’s too graphic…no splatteroos 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 been positive we had bone cancer, or lupus, or mono, or hepatitis and trying to move home at same time has been nearly impossible. didn’t know what was wrong. sleep all the time but not the kind that comes with depression, just horrible bone tired exhaustion. joints aching so much it is hard to move body. at all. stomach all messed up, bloated, shooting pains, no appetite. lots of mental confusion (you can snicker, is ok) but not just normal diss kind. hard to put thoughts together and if we can, can’t retain for more than 2 seconds. zip…gone into the murk. sleep is passing out and then jerking awake from aching body. head aches 24/7. thought we had tumor or stroke coming. seriously. started thinking about wanting to die just to make constant physical hurting go away. this is not us. have always been able to diss. away physical discomfort. no painkiller at dentist (don’t need it), had viral menigitis once and didn’t pay attention to hurting till it was real bad. doc freaked and put on lots of meds and sent to bed (no getting up, no moving fast or lifting, be a loaf of bread he said). this is just to say, physical is never big problem. till this effexor. literature says should go off over period of at least 2 weeks. we have been tapering for 6 weeks and effects are getting worse and worse. wasn’t until last night went to pharminfonet and read threads from ppl who went off, are going off…and found every damn symptom (except sore throat that plagues us still) mentioned by ppl. and they all are saying takes way more than 2 weeks to get off. so angry could absolutely…can’t say what we want to do cause it makes us ashamed but still want to do it. hate this drug and company that lies about horrible effects of quitting. docs are not aware of this and so don’t take it into account when prescribing. also, didn’t want to go to doctor because we knew that we would be ignored as crazy person with psychosomatic symptoms. really, honestly thought we were dying. hatehatehate. don’t need more problems. need less. has been good drug as anti-depress. but couldn’t afford it anymore and wanted to try st.johns wort (hypericum). been in the literature for 2400 years. think that is much better track record for us. hypericum has web page for anyone who is curious. anyway. rant rant. hate wyeth drug co. will avoid buying anything they produce. will prolly write a letter when brain clears. not that they give a shit. but will make us feel little better to scream at them. maybe also copy to fda, just for the heck of it. expect no response but maybe someone will notice… so, don’t know what to say. not telling anyone not to take drug. like we say, been good at what it does. but never want to feel this much physical pain again. badhorriblestupid. cause even if didn’t have to go off drug now, someday hope to not have to take meds and so it would happen sooner or later. and no one says how horrible it can be. just vague corporate lies…scum. all done. sorry about anger. is much huger than what is showing. b., geep, KAT, Susie, Rachel — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Thanks for posting about this!  I’ve been taking Effexor for about a year now, and always want to hear what other people’s experiences with it are.  I’ve not been in the position yet to try withdrawal, as so far it’s worked well for me as an anti-d. I hope the nasty withdrawal stuff goes away soon for you… Take good care, Kanga – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you are taking effexor and are thinkin of going off for whatever reason, or have thought of trying it out, please be advised that the side effects of going off can be horrendous. have watched friends go off other anti-depress. meds to try newer meds and tho they have reactions (either depression before new med kicks in, or side effects of new drug) they have not had the physical reactions we are having. spoilered for talk of physical reactions, just in case it’s too graphic…no splatteroos 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 been positive we had bone cancer, or lupus, or mono, or hepatitis and trying to move home at same time has been nearly impossible. didn’t know what was wrong. sleep all the time but not the kind that comes with depression, just horrible bone tired exhaustion. joints aching so much it is hard to move body. at all. stomach all messed up, bloated, shooting pains, no appetite. lots of mental confusion (you can snicker, is ok) but not just normal diss kind. hard to put thoughts together and if we can, can’t retain for more than 2 seconds. zip…gone into the murk. sleep is passing out and then jerking awake from aching body. head aches 24/7. thought we had tumor or stroke coming. seriously. started thinking about wanting to die just to make constant physical hurting go away. this is not us. have always been able to diss. away physical discomfort. no painkiller at dentist (don’t need it), had viral menigitis once and didn’t pay attention to hurting till it was real bad. doc freaked and put on lots of meds and sent to bed (no getting up, no moving fast or lifting, be a loaf of bread he said). this is just to say, physical is never big problem. till this effexor. literature says should go off over period of at least 2 weeks. we have been tapering for 6 weeks and effects are getting worse and worse. wasn’t until last night went to pharminfonet and read threads from ppl who went off, are going off…and found every damn symptom (except sore throat that plagues us still) mentioned by ppl. and they all are saying takes way more than 2 weeks to get off. so angry could absolutely…can’t say what we want to do cause it makes us ashamed but still want to do it. hate this drug and company that lies about horrible effects of quitting. docs are not aware of this and so don’t take it into account when prescribing. also, didn’t want to go to doctor because we knew that we would be ignored as crazy person with psychosomatic symptoms. really, honestly thought we were dying. hatehatehate. don’t need more problems. need less. has been good drug as anti-depress. but couldn’t afford it anymore and wanted to try st.johns wort (hypericum). been in the literature for 2400 years. think that is much better track record for us. hypericum has web page for anyone who is curious. anyway. rant rant. hate wyeth drug co. will avoid buying anything they produce. will prolly write a letter when brain clears. not that they give a shit. but will make us feel little better to scream at them. maybe also copy to fda, just for the heck of it. expect no response but maybe someone will notice… so, don’t know what to say. not telling anyone not to take drug. like we say, been good at what it does. but never want to feel this much physical pain again. badhorriblestupid. cause even if didn’t have to go off drug now, someday hope to not have to take meds and so it would happen sooner or later. and no one says how horrible it can be. just vague corporate lies…scum. all done. sorry about anger. is much huger than what is showing. b., geep, KAT, Susie, Rachel — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

thank you veryvery much Pope C. just like figuring out the effexor was causing all this horriblehorrible was huge relief, having the symptoms verified and explained is most empowering. not jus using that word accidentally. it gives me power in the head to know why this is happening and how to compare it with something. better to compare it to real brother, coke drug withdrawal, than to search for as yet unpublished effexor withdrawal symptoms or see it all as similar to dread diseases. we can work better with truth. funny how that works…. we were on drug for almost (i think) two years at 300mg a day which is up at top of dose level. this may be why the crash was so awful. also, 44 years old and ectomorph (is that the skinny body type? if so, thas us) tend to run at higher speeds and crash into feeling things without protection. oh fuzzy brain. does that last make sense. it has always felt like body was not protected by nice cushion and so all physical stuff was sort of heightened, accelerated…something…and then when we finally would notice physical discomfort it was huge and our body totally unprepared.  i think i am babbling. no, no doc to tell us how to go off. just followed what we know of drug withdrawal protocol. 300mg to250 for a week, to 200 for a week, to 150 for a week, and so on, down to taking only fraction (one third down to one quarter) of tablet 3x a day down to twice a day. tried to do it long and slow and careful. think this only prolonged the hurting. once we figured out was the effexor, we just quit. get it out of body now!!! one thing we discovered in last few days is that taking ambien sleeping pill (one at night) has helped make most excruciating symptoms abate for better part of the day. maybe just prolonging the withdrawal this way, but at least we can move around and get simple day to day tasks done without thinking we are dying. maybe this is like your suggestion about painkillers. as well as letters to fda and wyeth, i am going to send letter to dr.sid wolfe at nader founded group called health research group. used to work for organization that housed hrg and think sid will be interested. can i send him copy of your post (minus all identifiers) as it is good foil to my venting about symptoms. gives to hurting (amorphous) a basis in fact. docs like facts. will only do if you say is ok. thank you again for this information. you will never realize how validating and helpful it was. we still feel crappy but at least we know why and how. knowledge really is power. thank you all of Pope C. b. and all of coney s. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : if you are taking effexor and are thinkin of going off for whatever : reason, or have thought of trying it out, please be advised that the : side effects of going off can be horrendous. have watched friends go off : other anti-depress. meds to try newer meds and tho they have reactions : (either depression before new med kicks in, or side effects of new drug) : they have not had the physical reactions we are having. : spoilered for talk of physical reactions, just in case it’s too : graphic…no splatteroos : 1 : 2 : 3 : 4 : 5 : 6 : 7 : 8 : 9 : 0 : 1 : 2 : 3 : been positive we had bone cancer, or lupus, or mono, or hepatitis and : trying to move home at same time has been nearly impossible. didn’t know : what was wrong. sleep all the time but not the kind that comes with : depression, just horrible bone tired exhaustion. joints aching so much : it is hard to move body. at all. stomach all messed up, bloated, : shooting pains, no appetite. lots of mental confusion (you can snicker, : is ok) but not just normal diss kind. hard to put thoughts together and : if we can, can’t retain for more than 2 seconds. zip…gone into the : murk. sleep is passing out and then jerking awake from aching body. head : aches 24/7. thought we had tumor or stroke coming. seriously. started : thinking about wanting to die just to make constant physical hurting go : away. Woof.  That sounds much worse than the "average" withdrawal from effexor, but they’re usually pretty bad from what I hear.  Basically you are going through the equivalent of "speed" or cocaine withdrawal, cold-turkey.  I researched Effexor for a friend last year. Here’s what’s going on, if it would help to know (I wrote something similar for asar last year):    The SSRIs are called that because they are *Selective* serotonin    reuptake inhibitors.  They don’t affect too much else, at least on    purpose.    Effexor is *not* an SSRI; it’s an SRI, but it’s also a dopamine    reuptake inhibitor.  This means it increases the dopamine levels in    your system, which can boost your mood and is why it’s such an    effective anti-depressant, but it means it’s also capable of    becoming physically addictive in the same way that speed or cocaine    are.  (Those are both dopamine-mimics, in the sense that they    stimulate the dopamine receptors in the brain.) Effectively you’re going through the equivalent of a really bad and prolonged amphetamine or cocaine withdrawal.  Yours seems to be worse than usual.  Maybe it will help to know this, I don’t know. Oh yeah, the SSRIs and SRIs all raise the pain threshold – SSRIs are now being prescribed for cancer victims along with conventional painkillers – so going off the SRI component presumably lowers it. That’s probably making the physical pain worse too. [...] : literature says should go off over period of at least 2 weeks. we have : been tapering for 6 weeks and effects are getting worse and worse. Ugh.  They will wear off eventually but it’s awful that it’s going on so long. : wasn’t until last night went to pharminfonet and read threads from ppl : who went off, are going off…and found every damn symptom (except sore : throat that plagues us still) mentioned by ppl. and they all are saying : takes way more than 2 weeks to get off. Yeah, that’s what I warned my friend last year. : so angry could : absolutely…can’t say what we want to do cause it makes us ashamed but : still want to do it. hate this drug and company that lies about horrible : effects of quitting. docs are not aware of this and so don’t take it : into account when prescribing. The drug industry is all excited about Effexor, because it’s the first in potentially a whole new class of phenethylamine-based SRIs.  We can hope that all of them don’t have this kind of effect.  (Phenethylamines are one of the two major families of chemicals from which most psychedelic drugs are derived: mescaline, MDA, X or "Ecstasy", etc. Most SSRIs are distantly related to the other such family, tryptamines.) Unfortunately too many doctors don’t read anything but the PDR for drug info, even though it’s based entirely on info provided by the drug manufacturers.  (And it tends to be updated more slowly than other sources.) I still use it as a source, but I try to look at other sources if I can, and I always do my own research on any drug I’m taking. Did your doctor taper you down very gradually, like they’re supposed to (if they keep up on the literature) or did they cut down the dosage for you more rapidly from full dosage to almost nothing?  (Either because they didn’t know or because of side-effects that were too dangerous to taper down slowly.) Talk to doctor about withdrawal effects, but if they won’t take you seriously, you might try:   1) asking for conventional painkillers to help you get through it;   2) ask if you can start phasing in another SSRI during the      withdrawal (this might not be safe due to untested interactions);   3) drink lots of coffee during the withdrawal period (seriously –      coffee stimulates dopamine release and might somewhat reduce the      effects.) This is purely my own weird advice, not endorsed by any      doctror. : also, didn’t want to go to doctor because we knew that we would be : ignored as crazy person with psychosomatic symptoms. really, honestly : thought we were dying. hatehatehate. don’t need more problems. need : less. I know what you mean… : anyway. rant rant. hate wyeth drug co. will avoid buying anything they : produce. will prolly write a letter when brain clears. not that they : give a shit. but will make us feel little better to scream at them. : maybe also copy to fda, just for the heck of it. expect no response but : maybe someone will notice… It’s a good idea.  Eventually, with enough letters like that, the FDA may force them to at least add more warnings to the PDR and package inserts, which is pretty much all that a lot of doctors read. : so, don’t know what to say. not telling anyone not to take drug. like we : say, been good at what it does. but never want to feel this much : physical pain again. badhorriblestupid. cause even if didn’t have to go : off drug now, someday hope to not have to take meds and so it would : happen sooner or later. and no one says how horrible it can be. just : vague corporate lies…scum. Yep.  That’s corporate America – or at this point, the world.  Most corporations are severely dysfunctional and in denial. <1/2 g : all done. sorry about anger. is much huger than what is showing. Anger is a feeling.  It’s fine to be angry.  You did not use it as an excuse to behave badly towards anyone, at least that I can see, so there is no need to apologize.  Thank you for

… read more »

Response:

Question:

‘Nother meds question– I was just wondering if anyone else has ever taken serzone. I started taking antid*pr*ssants about four years ago, when I hit a colossal d*pr*ssion, and was first prescribed prozac. I stayed on that for about six months, and although the d*pr*ssion remained, it seemed ~slightly~ more controlable; but the amazing thing that seemed to happen with the prozac was that I could actually read again! However, after a while, I started thinking that there must be something better than this. I was still d*pr*ssed, still failing school, still barely functional. So, I went on "The Great Med Quest." I tried everything, and nothing seemed to help me with what I was looking for– something to help me be more functional, and to help me to concentrate enough to be able to read and to focus enough to do my coursework. After ritalin, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, and others which I have forgotten, I went back on prozac, because at least I had been able to read when I was on it before. I took it for about a year– going up to sixty and sometimes eighty mg’s a day. I pretended that I was not d*pr*ssed anymore, and I could still barely focus. A little over a month ago I woke up, and realized exactly how d*pr*ssed I was. A couple of days later, I found myself in the h*sp*t*l. I asked my p to change meds, so he said that my options were either serzone or paxil, and that that was it, there wasn’t anything else for me to take. However, the side effects with the serzone seem incredible. I have only been taking it for a few weeks, and pretty irregularly due to the side effects– i.e. if I choose to take it on a given day, I can expect not to be able to drive, walk straight, eat, or sleep for less than fourteen hours. However, I feel like this is kind of my last hope of ever feeling "normal." I wonder if I just took it regularly for a few weeks and rode the side effects through if they would eventually disappear and the meds would end up helping me. Has anybody had serzone work for them? … Or what about paxil? Any advice, words of wisdom, suggestions, etc, desparately sought… Erica

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘Nother meds question– I was just wondering if anyone else has ever taken serzone. I started taking antid*pr*ssants about four years ago, when I hit a colossal d*pr*ssion, and was first prescribed prozac. I stayed on that for about six months, and although the d*pr*ssion remained, it seemed ~slightly~ more controlable; but the amazing thing that seemed to happen with the prozac was that I could actually read again! However, after a while, I started thinking that there must be something better than this. I was still d*pr*ssed, still failing school, still barely functional. So, I went on "The Great Med Quest." I tried everything, and nothing seemed to help me with what I was looking for– something to help me be more functional, and to help me to concentrate enough to be able to read and to focus enough to do my coursework. After ritalin, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, and others which I have forgotten, I went back on prozac, because at least I had been able to read when I was on it before. I took it for about a year– going up to sixty and sometimes eighty mg’s a day. I pretended that I was not d*pr*ssed anymore, and I could still barely focus. A little over a month ago I woke up, and realized exactly how d*pr*ssed I was. A couple of days later, I found myself in the h*sp*t*l. I asked my p to change meds, so he said that my options were either serzone or paxil, and that that was it, there wasn’t anything else for me to take. However, the side effects with the serzone seem incredible. I have only been taking it for a few weeks, and pretty irregularly due to the side effects– i.e. if I choose to take it on a given day, I can expect not to be able to drive, walk straight, eat, or sleep for less than fourteen hours. However, I feel like this is kind of my last hope of ever feeling "normal." I wonder if I just took it regularly for a few weeks and rode the side effects through if they would eventually disappear and the meds would end up helping me. Has anybody had serzone work for them? … Or what about paxil? Any advice, words of wisdom, suggestions, etc, desparately sought… Erica

Hi Erica, I was on paxil for about 2 months last year. I found that it lifted the depression to a degree, but the side effects (lack of sleep, tremor, feeling really agitated and unbelievable night-mares every night), were out-weighing the anti-depressant function. These tablets are hard to gauge though. One fits some-one but doesn’t fit the other person. It’s all a matter of trial and error as you seem to know. I thought that I would never find a med to alleviate some of my more severe symptoms, but this year have found an old tri-cyclic that seems to be doing a pretty good job….and I went through the whole range too…. Good luck… Hope you find something that helps you… Grace

Response:

i took serazone for a while, ttwice acctually, the first time it worked really well for me (i had less side effects than i did on prozac), and i went off meds entirely after a whille.  then i went back on it not too long ago, and the side effectts weren’t too bad until my time sense left and i didn’t realize how many doses i had missed…  for me, if i’ve missed doses i get really bad side effects unless i taper back on the same way as if i was just starting it. different people react better to different meds, and there may not be one currently that will really work for you (i hope there is one). good luck elf

Response:

I also took Serzone for a while.  I had the simular side affect the if I missed a dose, I would get really sick in taking the next dose unless I tapered myself back on it. Other than that I had no side effects, but fro me it didn’t help with my depression.  It was the last hope for me because I’d been on Effexor,Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, tricyclics, MAOI’s. The only thin I haven’t tried is Remeron (sp). But none of the docs will even consider it. Margaret i took serazone for a while, ttwice acctually, the first time it worked really well for me (i had less side effects than i did on prozac), and i went off meds entirely after a whille.  then i went back on it not too long ago, and the side effectts weren’t too bad until my time sense left and i didn’t realize how many doses i had missed…  for me, if i’ve missed doses i get really bad side effects unless i taper back on the same way as if i was just starting it. different people react better to different meds, and there may not be one currently that will really work for you (i hope there is one). good luck elf

– For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Hi Erica, hihi, Grace  = ) I was on paxil for about 2 months last year. I found that it lifted the depression to a degree, but the side effects (lack of sleep, tremor, feeling really agitated and unbelievable night-mares every night), were out-weighing the anti-depressant function.

that sux. i thnk that that is what zoloft did when i was on it… These tablets are hard to gauge though. One fits some-one but doesn’t fit the other person. It’s all a matter of trial and error as you seem to know.

yeah, i know = … i wish it were easier I thought that I would never find a med to alleviate some of my more severe symptoms, but this year have found an old tri-cyclic that seems to be doing a pretty good job….and I went through the whole range too…. Good luck… Hope you find something that helps you… Grace

thank you = ) erica "… I’m just having thoughts of Marianne she could outrun the fastest slug she could Marianne quickest girl in the frying pan"

Response: