Question:

: I’ve never had zits as an adult but now can’t get rid of them. I stopped : taking Astelin nose spray since it caused a massive breakout. Two weeks : later I still wake up with a new zit or two every day. I take Serevent and : Flovent. Is this something I’ll have to live with? I tend to get acne when my asthma goes out of control.  It took me a while to relate one to the other .  Have you talked to your doctor about this? There are some relatively safe medications available for controlling acne (eg. antibiotics), and I suppose after that, you have to figure out what happened.  It may be, and I am only guessing, that if the spray caused the reaction, it might be an immune response (allergy related, perhaps?), which would likely take a while to go down .  Best talk to your doctor. Cheers, Kin Hoong

Response:

I have asthma and a skin condition called Rosacea which is often mistaken for acne.  I am not aware of any connection between the two so I’m not suggesting that this is what you are experiencing, but I always mention it to people having pimple problems because Rosacea is an underdiagnosed life-long condition that responds well to treatment and is disfiguring in the long-term if not treated.  If you would like more information you can e-mail me or there are a couple of good websites that come up on a Yahoo search for rosacea. Kerry

Response:

I’ve never had zits as an adult but now can’t get rid of them. I stopped taking Astelin nose spray since it caused a massive breakout. Two weeks later I still wake up with a new zit or two every day. I take Serevent and Flovent. Is this something I’ll have to live with? Lynda

Response:

Question:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

Response:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

I’m sure others will provide more details but anyway— the drugs singulair and accolate are leukotriene receptor antagonists.  That may seem a bit Greek but what they do is to compete with leukotrienes for the leukotriene binding site on the outside cell surface.  If the site is already complexed with singulair or accolate then the leukotriene can not bind and the cascade of events that would have followed does not occur.  There are some structural (chemical) differences in the antagonistic active ingredient of accolate and singulair.  They are not the same molecule although they fulfill the same function, hence two patents and two drugs.  Apparently the ability of the active ingredient to bind to the leukotriene receptor differs between the two.  That’s why singulair is one pill a day and accolate is twice a day.  Also, the leukotriene receptors are not identical in every individual, apparently there is some genetic diversity for their chemical structure.  That’s why some people are helped by one but not the other and why not everyone is helped by either of them (of course there are probably several other reasons also, like the cause of the inflammation that gets labeled asthma) .  From what I’ve seen here and from the package insert (I believe) accolate is degraded by the liver while singulair is not (anybody can step in here if they have a better understanding).  In fact I think I’ll quit before I get beyond my own understanding.  I hope someone corrects me if I have provided an incorrect view of their mechanism.

Response:

Just out of curiosity, what are the know side-effects (long term) of taking a leukotriene inhibitor.  It seems to me that leukotrienes play a somewhat vital role in the body so I’m curious as to what the dangers are of taking something like Accolate which inhibits them?

Well, it’s probably safe to say that no one knows what the long-term side-effects are.  Generally these would be projected from animal studies where high concentrations are fed to the animals, hoping to accelerate any negative effects, and this approach has been reasonably reliable in most cases.  Such studies are in no way a sure thing, however, as has been demonstrated by the recall of several drugs recently. One advantage of leukotriene inhibitors, though, is that the drugs more accurately "target" the problem being treated than do steroids (which are something of a blunderbuss approach).

Response:

Question:

Hello all, I have been on Effexor XR 37.5mg once a day for a week. The side-effects have gone away except one, the feel of being light headed. My questions is, how long will the lightheadness last? Will this go away? Thank you to all who respond, Mike

Response:

not anwerable 100%, but often, yes it does go away.  Give it 4 to 6 weeks, then re-assess.  Make sure you’re well hydrated and don’t have fever etc.. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I have been on Effexor XR 37.5mg once a day for a week. The side-effects have gone away except one, the feel of being light headed. My questions is, how long will the lightheadness last? Will this go away? Thank you to all who respond, Mike

Response:

Hi Mike, I took extra  Xanax when I felt that way but light-headedness  was one of my anxiety symptoms anyway. Just exacerbated, initially, by Effexor. One week may seem a long time but adjustment to Effexor can take much longer. Hang in there, Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I have been on Effexor XR 37.5mg once a day for a week. The side-effects have gone away except one, the feel of being light headed. My questions is, how long will the lightheadness last? Will this go away? Thank you to all who respond, Mike

Response:

Has anyone noticed a lot of weight gain with Effexor XR? I took my first 37.5 mg pill today and I’m already significantly overweight as is, so I need to know if this is about to get worse. I have heard things from both end of the spectrum. What did you all experience?

Response:

My situation is the same as your: I’m overweight and I started taking Effexor 37.5 XR. I started taking Effexor 2 1/2 weeks ago. Effexor for me was an appetite suppressant and I lost 3 pounds the first week. I was not eating or drinking fluids, which made the side-effects worse than they should have been. So, if you find that you are not hungry, remember to drink lots of fluids to stay hydrated and eat a little something. Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone noticed a lot of weight gain with Effexor XR? I took my first 37.5 mg pill today and I’m already significantly overweight as is, so I need to know if this is about to get worse. I have heard things from both end of the spectrum. What did you all experience?

Response:

Thanks Mike! I know drugs tend to affect everyone differently, but it is nice to hear someone who DIDN’T gain weight on it. I am hoping it’ll help with that too. Keep me posted on how it goes for you. Suzanne

Response:

Thanks Mike! I know drugs tend to affect everyone differently, but it is nice to hear someone who DIDN’T gain weight on it. I am hoping it’ll help with that too. Keep me posted on how it goes for you. Suzanne

Hi Suzanne, I have been on Efexor for a few years now and recently upped my dose.  I have not gained any weight on it and with cutting out some fast foods, I have actually lost some weight.  I did put on heaps with Prozac and still need to loose more of it. Jude.

Response:

Question:

Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group.  Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening. — Yvonne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group. Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening. To me, and I am in no way a doctor, it would seem that it is possible that the anti-depressants that you are taking are throwing you into a manic episode (it’s a common occurrence). If your pdoc thinks that you are bipolar then he should add a mood stabilizer into the mix. I suggest that you call him immediately and let him know what’s going on. Good luck Thank you for responding, Hilaire, and for your advice. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of a manic episode. I saw my case-worker today and she said the same thing you did, plus she told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin. She’s also scheduled me for an "emergency" appointment to see the psychiatrist tomorrow (instead of waiting for the one I had for June 4th) to see what type of med would be better suited for my condition. I’m feeling somewhat better this evening, but the need to rock back and forth and to keep my body in some kind of motion is still with me. As well, I am extremely tired as if I haven’t slept in days. But, at least I know it’s only a few more hours before I see the psychiatrist. Again, thank you for replying. No problem It sounds like you’ve got a good case worker. I also thought you should stop taking the Wellbutrin, but would never give out that advice on-line. Let us know how it goes. BTW – Wellbutrin made me wildly manic within a couple of hours of taking it for the first time. Hilaire WOW! For years I thought I was weird, have had many similar circumstances and at that time I was undiagnosed and manic. Whew, it was good to hear another woman stating that the same stuff happened with her. Definitely do something about the meds, you can’t go through life wrapped in gauze and afraid to talk to men for fear of the repercussions. Sounds like you have a very supportive husband girl, it takes a lot for our men to stay through the worst, but the best will come. My best to you and yours, Tanja

when taking wellbutrin,i was irritable(imagine that)so that my case manager thretened to resign.& i was flirtatious(to say how successful might be embarassing).what you’re experiencing might be related to medications,or you could be getting a bit hypo- or manic.I’m bd 1 but the effects are similiar,some enjoyable.Harry("not well")

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group. Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening. To me, and I am in no way a doctor, it would seem that it is possible that the anti-depressants that you are taking are throwing you into a manic episode (it’s a common occurrence). If your pdoc thinks that you are bipolar then he should add a mood stabilizer into the mix. I suggest that you call him immediately and let him know what’s going on. Good luck Thank you for responding, Hilaire, and for your advice. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of a manic episode. I saw my case-worker today and she said the same thing you did, plus she told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin. She’s also scheduled me for an "emergency" appointment to see the psychiatrist tomorrow (instead of waiting for the one I had for June 4th) to see what type of med would be better suited for my condition. I’m feeling somewhat better this evening, but the need to rock back and forth and to keep my body in some kind of motion is still with me. As well, I am extremely tired as if I haven’t slept in days. But, at least I know it’s only a few more hours before I see the psychiatrist. Again, thank you for replying.

No problem It sounds like you’ve got a good case worker. I also thought you should stop taking the Wellbutrin, but would never give out that advice on-line. Let us know how it goes. BTW – Wellbutrin made me wildly manic within a couple of hours of taking it for the first time. Hilaire

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group. Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening. To me, and I am in no way a doctor, it would seem that it is possible that the anti-depressants that you are taking are throwing you into a manic episode (it’s a common occurrence). If your pdoc thinks that you are bipolar then he should add a mood stabilizer into the mix. I suggest that you call him immediately and let him know what’s going on. Good luck Thank you for responding, Hilaire, and for your advice. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of a manic episode. I saw my case-worker today and she said the same thing you did, plus she told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin. She’s also scheduled me for an "emergency" appointment to see the psychiatrist tomorrow (instead of waiting for the one I had for June 4th) to see what type of med would be better suited for my condition. I’m feeling somewhat better this evening, but the need to rock back and forth and to keep my body in some kind of motion is still with me. As well, I am extremely tired as if I haven’t slept in days. But, at least I know it’s only a few more hours before I see the psychiatrist. Again, thank you for replying. No problem It sounds like you’ve got a good case worker. I also thought you should stop taking the Wellbutrin, but would never give out that advice on-line. Let us know how it goes. BTW – Wellbutrin made me wildly manic within a couple of hours of taking it for the first time. Hilaire WOW! For years I thought I was weird, have had many similar circumstances

and at that time I was undiagnosed and manic. Whew, it was good to hear another woman stating that the same stuff happened with her. Definitely do something about the meds, you can’t go through life wrapped in gauze and afraid to talk to men for fear of the repercussions. Sounds like you have a very supportive husband girl, it takes a lot for our men to stay through the worst, but the best will come. My best to you and yours, Tanja

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group. Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening. To me, and I am in no way a doctor, it would seem that it is possible that the anti-depressants that you are taking are throwing you into a manic episode (it’s a common occurrence). If your pdoc thinks that you are bipolar then he should add a mood stabilizer into the mix. I suggest that you call him immediately and let him know what’s going on. Good luck

Thank you for responding, Hilaire, and for your advice. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of a manic episode. I saw my case-worker today and she said the same thing you did, plus she told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin. She’s also scheduled me for an "emergency" appointment to see the psychiatrist tomorrow (instead of waiting for the one I had for June 4th) to see what type of med would be better suited for my condition. I’m feeling somewhat better this evening, but the need to rock back and forth and to keep my body in some kind of motion is still with me. As well, I am extremely tired as if I haven’t slept in days. But, at least I know it’s only a few more hours before I see the psychiatrist. Again, thank you for replying. — Yvonne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello. I am a Canadian female, mid-40s, married, an at-home mother. I have diabetes type 2 since Dec. 1999, have suffered from depression for perhaps seven years now, and have been tentatively diagnosed with Bipolar 2 this past March by a psychiatrist. The doctor recommended I add Wellbrutin S.R. (150 mg x a day) to the Effexor XR (150 mg x a day) . I didn’t think that either meds were working, until earlier last week when my libido kicked in. (I was ‘neutral’, so to speak, for many months.) It was quite a pleasant experience for my husband and I. But then, within a few days, it’s as if my increased libido "overtook" me and I began to flirt (playfully, I would say, but with sexual overtones) with various men, men I didn’t even know, in a chat group. Without revealing too many details, one of these flirty episodes turned out badly yesterday evening. I took this *very* badly, and it triggered an episode of self-injury, something I hadn’t done in over twenty years. Along with the seemingly never-ending tears, I began to scratch – using my own fingernails – my upper and lower back, my upper chest, my breasts, my waist and parts of my legs. This crying/scratching last over one hour, until my husband’s 2nd attempt to calm me down worked. I share all of this with you not to be condemned, but to ask if the oral meds I am taking could be responsible for (1) my increased libido (where previously there was almost none), (2) this urge to flirt with strangers, and (3) thoughts and actions of self-injury. Thank you for listening.

To me, and I am in no way a doctor, it would seem that it is possible that the anti-depressants that you are taking are throwing you into a manic episode (it’s a common occurrence). If your pdoc thinks that you are bipolar then he should add a mood stabilizer into the mix. I suggest that you call him immediately and let him know what’s going on. Good luck Hilaire

Response:

Question:

Hello everyone, I have severe generalized social phobia and I’m 20 years old. Currently, I’m on Zoloft to help with depression. However, it does not do much for my anxiety. I recently started to consider adding a Benzodiazepine like Klonopin (clonazepam) to help with my anxiety. I mentioned this to my physician and he freaked out. He said it is prescribed on a short-term basis to individuals who do not have generalized anxiety. My physician referred me to a psychiatrist… and I’m probably going to make an appointment tomorrow. My problem is this: My physician kind of made me feel like a drug addict or something. I don’t want the same thing to happen with the psychiatrist. Do most doctors feel this way about Benzodiazepines? Is it a good idea to pursue this? I know therapy is an important factor, and I have been through CBT. Obliviously it didn’t work very well. Right now, I can’t afford therapy on a regular basis. -William

Response:

William wrote:

Hello everyone, I have severe generalized social phobia and I’m 20 years old. Currently, I’m on Zoloft to help with depression. However, it does not do much for my anxiety. I recently started to consider adding a Benzodiazepine like Klonopin (clonazepam) to help with my anxiety. I mentioned this to my physician and he freaked out. He said it is prescribed on a short-term basis to individuals who do not have generalized anxiety.

Yeah it’s used for Epilepsy mainly. But of course it also has a use in treating anxiety. As does xanax which you should also look at. And a whole lot of other drugs as well.

My physician referred me to a psychiatrist… and I’m probably going to make an appointment tomorrow. My problem is this: My physician kind of made me feel like a drug addict or something. I don’t want the same thing to happen with the psychiatrist.

Your not a drug addict for requesting a drug that you believe will relieve your anxiety. Are cancer patients drug addicts when they get chemotherapy on the odd chance it might save their life? Are diabetics drug addicts because they stick a needle in their bodies all the time? Do you know how many billions of dollars could be saved if social anxiety was eliminated from the population? Not to mention how many people would be better off. Do most doctors feel this way

about Benzodiazepines? Is it a good idea to pursue this?

It depends on their training and knowledge of your past history. If you had a history of drug dependence or alchohol abuse almost no doctor would provide you with benzo’s. If you don’t then again it depends on their training and most Pychiatrists are better trained in the use of these drugs than Doctors. IMHO it is a good idea for you to pursue any therapy that is safe for you, as long as it helps you. That includes drug therapies as well as others.

I know therapy is an important factor, and I have been through CBT. Obliviously it didn’t work very well. Right now, I can’t afford therapy on a regular basis.

Yeah it can be so expensive. Richard — Registered Lunatic #100347

Response:

On 5 Feb 2002 23:53:33 -0800, willhk…@earthlink.net (William) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello everyone, I have severe generalized social phobia and I’m 20 years old. Currently, I’m on Zoloft to help with depression. However, it does not do much for my anxiety. I recently started to consider adding a Benzodiazepine like Klonopin (clonazepam) to help with my anxiety. I mentioned this to my physician and he freaked out. He said it is prescribed on a short-term basis to individuals who do not have generalized anxiety. My physician referred me to a psychiatrist… and I’m probably going to make an appointment tomorrow. My problem is this: My physician kind of made me feel like a drug addict or something. I don’t want the same thing to happen with the psychiatrist. Do most doctors feel this way about Benzodiazepines? Is it a good idea to pursue this? I know therapy is an important factor, and I have been through CBT. Obliviously it didn’t work very well. Right now, I can’t afford therapy on a regular basis. -William

Hi William, Is Zoloft the only anti depressant you’ve tried?  I know this doesn’t seem logical, but different brands of ssri anti depressants don’t always have the same effect on people.  If Zoloft isn’t working for your anxiety, you could try Paxil or Celexa.  Just a thought.  BTW, what is your current Zoloft dose? Whether you have or haven’t tried other ssri meds, and at a workable dosage level, adding a benzodiazepine is still a common practice.  I base this comment on my own experience, my previous doctor’s revelations, postings to this group and research.  (My new family doctor, a result of moving to a different state in the U.S., reacted similarly to your MD when I told him what meds I took.  A shrink I subsequently saw did not have a problem and I was given a green light to continue my med regimen.) The big deal with benzos is that they are considered addictive and fall into the controlled substances category, although at the bottom of the list.  Apparently they can be difficult to come off of, if you ever decide to take one, then quit  There is also a concern that users will require increasingly larger doses to attain the same calming effect.  I can’t comment re. any difficulties in quitting a benzo because I’ve never done that.  I can say, though, that once I reached an effective dose level of Xanax several years ago, I have NEVER felt the need to take more to achieve the same anxiety relief.  There is also, at least in my case, no euphoric or high feeling associated with taking a benzo (Valium could be an exception because some people do get a buzz from it.)  If you were to compare the potential addictiveness of benzos with, say, alcohol abuse, it’s like day and night.  Benzos help me and others to function and sometimes lead at least a semblance of a normal life.  In spite of their supposed addictiveness, I can drive, I can work, I can talk to people, and look and feel pretty much ok (well as ok as an sp’ic can be anyway).  OTOH, alcohol abuse ALWAYS involves drinking greater quantities over time to reach the desired effect.  And the side effects can be horrific. Drunks can’t effectively handle even simple tasks and their thinking and judgment are clouded to say the least.  You hear about drunk drivers killing people on the highways all the time, yet this drug is an over the counter purchase.  So far I haven’t read or heard anything about someone killing others or himself as a result of taking benzos. Of the benzos, Klonopin is probably the most subtle in its action.  It has a calming effect, but not the "right now" relief you get within an hour or so of taking something like Xanax.  Klonopin also has a relatively long half life, meaning it stays with you for several hours versus a med like Xanax which begins to poop out after anywhere from 3 hours and up.  Here’s an interesting aside too.  Klonopin was developed to control seizures in people.  A normal daily intake, when taken for seizures,  is somewhere around 10 mg give or take.  However, some people need as much as 20 mg to control their seizures.  When used for anxiety, Klonopin doses range from 1 to 4 mg daily.  Some people undoubtedly take a couple of more mg, but you won’t find anyone even near the dose level needed to control seizures. Here’s the bottom line.  It’s your life.  Anxiety is messing it up. Zoloft, and maybe other ssri anti depressants, plus CBT have not helped.  That pretty much leaves maoi’s and benzos as the remaining choices in the prescription med category.  Maoi’s are considered the last choice because they have a lot of restrictions, particularly as relates to what you can safely eat, and significant side effects. Asking for a benzo such as Klonopin is a reasonable request to try to gain some degree of normalcy with your life.  Ask your family doctor which is preferable:  living in anxiety hell forever or taking a benzo to get some relief.   If you don’t get the answer you want, there are other doctors.  And yes, I know how hard it is to see a new doctor and discuss your anxiety disorder, but it could come to that. If you see the psychiatrist, there’s a good probability you’ll get an ok to try Klonopin.  S/he’ll probably want to see you periodically to see if you’re getting relief and to evaluate if dosage should be changed.  Your starting dose might be 1, maybe 2 mg per day, taken in equal amounts spread out over your waking hours.  If that doesn’t cut it, you can always request a higher dose, also to be split up evenly over each day.  One last comment about Klonopin. I didn’t realize this until I started taking it, but unlike Xanax, you don’t gain its full benefit until after you’ve been on it for a week or so.  In spite of this lag, you’ll still probably notice a calming effect the first day of use. You might want to do some research on the web or elsewhere for Klonopin and anxiety so you’ll be somewhat knowledgeable about it when you see the shrink.  Good luck. Doug

Response:

Thanks Doug and Richard for your advice… I feel much better about the whole thing now.

Is Zoloft the only anti depressant you’ve tried?

Actually, I’ve been on Paxil as well. At one point I was on 100mg of Zoloft, but I started to get side-effects with that dosage. I could try other SSRI’s. I’m aware that this could take anywhere up to a couple of months to notice a difference. In my situation, I don’t really have the luxury of time to experiment with all the SSRI’s out there.

If you see the psychiatrist, there’s a good probability you’ll get an ok to try Klonopin.

I made an appointment with a psychiatrist this morning. It’s on Friday. This is the psychiatrist that my physician referred me to. Do you think that my physician can interfere in my choice of medication? Or do you think it’s a better idea to get a psychiatrist who is not connected to my doctor? Thanks, -William

Response:

William, On 6 Feb 2002 12:11:53 -0800, willhk…@earthlink.net (William) wrote:

Thanks Doug and Richard for your advice… I feel much better about the whole thing now. Is Zoloft the only anti depressant you’ve tried? Actually, I’ve been on Paxil as well. At one point I was on 100mg of Zoloft, but I started to get side-effects with that dosage. I could try other SSRI’s. I’m aware that this could take anywhere up to a couple of months to notice a difference. In my situation, I don’t really have the luxury of time to experiment with all the SSRI’s out there.

OK.

If you see the psychiatrist, there’s a good probability you’ll get an ok to try Klonopin. I made an appointment with a psychiatrist this morning. It’s on Friday. This is the psychiatrist that my physician referred me to. Do you think that my physician can interfere in my choice of medication? Or do you think it’s a better idea to get a psychiatrist who is not connected to my doctor?

I saw the psychiatrist that my new family doctor recommended and he okayed my drugs.  Had the shrink said no, I would have sought out another psychiatrist and another till I got what I wanted.  In my case I’ve been taking Xanax for over 15 years so it’s not like I have no experience with it or don’t know about its negatives. If you believe your family MD has your best interests at heart, there’s no harm in seeing whoever he recommends.  I’m inclined to think he’s passing the buck due more to a lack of knowledge than because he’s dead set against your taking Klonopin.  I mean he could have just said no and let that be the end of it, not even recommending that you see a shrink.  One other thing to consider is that the psychiatrist is going to have a lot more familiarity with your illness and meds that can help you than your MD does. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thanks, -William

Response:

Question:

…from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS.   Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it.   To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage.   I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections.   I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded.   Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live.   I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive.     I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her."   No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

Hi Patricia.. I dont know how long ago you posted but people here do now take seriously the side and after effects of medications.. Many here suffer from such and are dealing with them.. Off the bat I have to say whatever you think.. your post is intelligent..  coherent and extremely articulate..not at all as you imagine it to be Gemini does still post here and I am sure will respond. there are many here who have had or are having similar experiences so you dont have to feel so alone .. It is usenet. so you could just ignore the occasional scienos under the beds post. Im sorry you are struggling with such problems and fears but you are by no means on your own. regards, Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

Dear Patricia, I have a background in writing — I have also up to this past June 2001 been on a variety of psychiatric drugs… such as Lithium , Seroquel, Tompamax and Carbamazepine.  I did find taking this combination of cocktail… to be rather disturbing in respect to my language and cognitive abilities.  When attempts were made to speak — often I had problems bringing out the exact wordage I wanted to use. However since June, I have gradually taken myself off of all of the above medications and as of tomorrow will be going back onto just 100mg of Topamax, I have otherwise found myself to better concentrate since being off of the above mentioned cocktail combination. In respect to your message here.  I had found no difficulty in understanding what you were trying to express…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Hi Patricia:     I suffer a lot of the *brain damage* descriptions you mention.  These are quite normal for persons suffering from depression.  I’ve taken every type of med there is and had ECTs.  I’m quite treatment resistant. Currently, I’m taking Parnate and Topamax.  Topamax does leave me *looking for that word* you describe.  This present combination is becoming more and more ineffective and will abandon it shortly and they are damaging my liver. But, sure I walk around feeling brain damaged.  For 3 years now – this time. Three years the last time also.  I’m told by my pdoc, I’m such a lovely candidate for recurring episodes of major depression.  I hope each episode they come up with newer and new and safer meds, huh?     Having ECTs has lead to a lot of comments from people referring to the fact that *hey, I bet you are brain damaged*.  I’ve never taken alcohol or rec drugs, and I often wonder how many of those people making statements like that to me can claim the same.  ha-ha.     I have days where I talk and forget what I’m talking about it while I’m talking about it.  So I just don’t talk.  I’m alone usually, so it does not matter.  I often go somewhere and can not remember why I’m there.  Upsetting event, because this will cause the usual panic and anxiety attack.     I’ve now entered the *zone* where I just don’t care really.  I have lost who I was and do not know who I can be.  I am constantly doubtful that I can contribute intelligently to a conversation with anyone in this group.  I believe depression the disease, wears out your brain.  If you are fortunate enough to find a compatible medication with your chemistry – viola – you become well and all the ugly symptoms you speak of will go unnoticed.  So will mine.     I’ve tried – Tricyclics (sp? – duh), Lithium, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil (MAOI), Wellbutrin+Celexa, Parnate(MAOI)+Topamax(MS).     MAOIs do work for me, but dosage must be kept low due to liver problems. So why bother now?  I’m sure there are more we could chuck in there.     For me, a common side effect with everything (except MAOIs) was that I had to go to extremely high doses to get any effect and even that would wear out – but I would get all the side effects.  In a nutshell, I took ADs to get ugly side effects and no relief from major depression.     I often think that my existence is for what?  To live like a terrorized animal in a cage with my eyes open so wide that I don’t see anything? Noises so loud I don’t hear anything one thing?  How can live like this? And to know that ***IF*** this can be finally, after 3 years put under control, it is just going to return.     I have the age old question, why am I here?  What was my purpose?  I’ve have only one reason.  I brought the most wonderful son into the world who will be good and kind to all people.  A special person who a suffered a lot more than he should have already.  A natural peacekeeper. Take Care Sorry for my rambles Carrie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself.

Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it…

Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. so do a  goggle search using  P.A.N.E.S  will produce one or more of the articles on it for you.. I think I know how scared you must be. (I am)

I’m very scared. I just don’t know how much damage it has done, and since I’m in my mid-thirties, will this effect multiply as I lose more cells due to aging? This whole thing is freaking me out. I been trying out and getting some relief, with dietary changes… then supplementing big time with a bunch of vitamins..etc.  I am now  looking into idea a gluten intolerance or food intolerance of some kind made it so..I didnt metabolize meds like NORM,  and they got delivered to my brain in a toxic fashion..for me.

What kind of vitamins do you take? Is it helping? You mention gluten intolerance.. do you mean MSG and soy products. I read somewhere that they can also have an impact on the brain. Holistic healing…research on my part, is ongoing  big time…researching chelation,  YOGA supposed to help,  BREATHING improving circulation, anything….  However I just breached the tip of the iceberg in those areas… SSRIS are vascocontricters,  maybe prolonged use makes it remain constricted unless you do a lot of shit to open up airways.. why I am looking into ways of opening up breathing so more oxygen to brain.. might dissipate a little of this problem Only thing helped me in years…alternate remedies.alll  .one by one adding up to improvements..

Thanks for posting. I would be very interested in what kinds of remedies specifically you’re using.   Its Jan…mid January  and the first one in a decade I wasnt on a med, where I didnt sink into clinicla depression, thanks to what I done so far.

That’s good. Depression is the worst evil, and if you can overcome that to some degree then you’ve succeeded. I was having a panic attack recently, and someone suggested I use this alternate breathing technique rather than call in for zanax, and IT stopped the growing panic,  dead.in a matter of hours..after I begun it. So I am hopeful…I can improve some fo the problems  via diet, exercise and knowlege of holistic,  living..and then living more holistically…

Thanks for sharing your hope. BTW, I’ll be checking this newsgroup on a regular basis (been a while since posting but I remember yours and Mike’s posts) and if you have time could you share some things that have worked for you the most cognitively speaking? I’m very interested. Gingko Biloba is something I’m considering now, but not sure about the long term effects (at least it is natural!)  - Patricia

Response:

Dear Patricia, I have a background in writing — I have also up to this past June 2001 been on a variety of psychiatric drugs… such as Lithium , Seroquel, Tompamax and Carbamazepine.  I did find taking this combination of cocktail… to be rather disturbing in respect to my language and cognitive abilities.  When attempts were made to speak — often I had problems bringing out the exact wordage I wanted to use.

Did you mean speaking vs. writing? I’m finding a problem with speaking even more than writing- at least on paper the previous thought is written down, so that is the crutch I use to recall my previous train of thought and continue it further. However since June, I have gradually taken myself off of all of the above medications and as of tomorrow will be going back onto just 100mg of Topamax, I have otherwise found myself to better concentrate since being off of the above mentioned cocktail combination.

How long were you on the other meds (excluding Topomax)? In respect to your message here.  I had found no difficulty in understanding what you were trying to express….

Same here in regards to your post.   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia Hi Patricia:    I suffer a lot of the *brain damage* descriptions you mention.  These are quite normal for persons suffering from depression.  I’ve taken every type of med there is and had ECTs.  I’m quite treatment resistant. Currently, I’m taking Parnate and Topamax.  Topamax does leave me *looking for that word* you describe.  

You are one of many people who have describe word-finding difficulties while on psychotropics. I’m not sure exactly what Topamax is or does, but I do notice the same effect while on the meds, and after quitting they seem to have left a lasting imprint. This present combination is becoming more and more ineffective and will abandon it shortly and they are damaging my liver. But, sure I walk around feeling brain damaged.  For 3 years now – this time. Three years the last time also.  I’m told by my pdoc, I’m such a lovely candidate for recurring episodes of major depression.  I hope each episode they come up with newer and new and safer meds, huh?    Having ECTs has lead to a lot of comments from people referring to the fact that *hey, I bet you are brain damaged*.  I’ve never taken alcohol or rec drugs, and I often wonder how many of those people making statements like that to me can claim the same.  ha-ha.

That’s interesting about alcohol – I often wonder whether the brain damage would have been less being an alcoholic for a few years. How do you feel the ECT affected you?    I have days where I talk and forget what I’m talking about it while I’m talking about it.  So I just don’t talk.  

Same here. At work people are joking around and I can’t even say a single sentence without stumbling. Often when I’m talking I find myself out on a limb- I forget where I’m headed with the thought. So yes, I’ve found being forgetful can reduce the confidence level quite a bit. I’m alone usually, so it does not matter.  

Me too. I often go somewhere and can not remember why I’m there.  Upsetting event, because this will cause the usual panic and anxiety attack.    I’ve now entered the *zone* where I just don’t care really.  I have lost who I was and do not know who I can be.  

Same here.  I have lost who I was too, and the hardest thing I’ve been dealing with is how to adjust to this new persona. I really feel for your apathy state.. I have the same feeling. Most of the time my mind is just a blank. I am constantly doubtful that I can contribute intelligently to a conversation with anyone in this group.  

You sound intelligent to me, although I have no idea what your previous level was. I know the feelings of doubt though, and the need to just withdraw and retreat from other people. I have about 0% the confidence level I had before the bouts with the SSRIs, and that includes a new feeling that I don’t come across warm or caring enough. It’s as if something in my brain that regulates emotion got eroded somehow. believe depression the disease, wears out your brain.

It does, depression too can damage the brain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are fortunate enough to find a compatible medication with your chemistry – viola – you become well and all the ugly symptoms you speak of will go unnoticed.  So will mine.    I’ve tried – Tricyclics (sp? – duh), Lithium, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil (MAOI), Wellbutrin+Celexa, Parnate(MAOI)+Topamax(MS).    MAOIs do work for me, but dosage must be kept low due to liver problems. So why bother now?  I’m sure there are more we could chuck in there.    For me, a common side effect with everything (except MAOIs) was that I had to go to

… read more »

Response:

Thanks Bob.   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia.. I dont know how long ago you posted but people here do now take seriously the side and after effects of medications.. Many here suffer from such and are dealing with them.. Off the bat I have to say whatever you think.. your post is intelligent.. coherent and extremely articulate..not at all as you imagine it to be Gemini does still post here and I am sure will respond. there are many here who have had or are having similar experiences so you dont have to feel so alone .. It is usenet. so you could just ignore the occasional scienos under the beds post. Im sorry you are struggling with such problems and fears but you are by no means on your own. regards, Bob …from 3 years of Anafranil and Prozac.  Excuse this garbled message (probably a result of the damage, but I am so depressed right now because I know *exactly* what is wrong, but I am powerless to do anything about it. My brain is permanently fried from that med.  Here is the damage I notice: 1). Word retrieval – I can "picture" the word I want to say but I can’t find the word to use. Often, I have to substitute other, less efficient words to express what I’m trying to say. 2.) Thought retention – My mind just feels foggy and thoughts slip away very easily.  For example, when talking to myself I frequently have trouble recalling a sequence of thoughts from just a few seconds ago. It slips away so easily. My thoughts contain only about 2-3 words or "chunks" (at most). Beyond that I forget very easily.  Therefore, I lose the "word base" from which to form more complex thoughts. Everyone, please skip to the bottom if this post bores you. It is the absolute truth of my experience with SSRIs, and right now I’m feeling very frustrated at what is happening.. I’ve BEEN OFF MEDICATION FOR OVER A YEAR AND MY COGNITIVE ABILITIES HAVE NOT IMPROVED. Most of the damage (I feel) is subtle.. My doctor doesn’t believe there is damage. I have posted here once a long time ago and some people thought I was just an antimedication fanatic of the school of scientology.  Genimi from Vegas (don’t know if she still posts here) and "indiferent" were among those who believed it could/might happen. I believe I might have an oversensitivity in my brain that may have caused the damage to be GREATER than most people.. or maybe it is genetic. I do not know.  All I can tell you is my experience only, I have no scientific proof, all I’m saying is that I notice these effects LONG AFTER QUITTING, and I never HAD THESE PROBLEMS PRIOR TO THE MEDS. Most of the effects are subtle, so this post may actually sound halfway intelligent. But if you read more closely, the word choice is very limited.. I can’t even explain the damage I feel because I’ve lost the rich, complex and fluid linguistic capacity to express it. To have brain damage and KNOW it, but be unable to express it except in an adolescent fashion is a double-whammy to me.  I know this post is also disjointed and I use the word "I" too much.   That is also a sign of the damage, although no one on this board would know because I’ve never written here prior to the damage. I can’t even convince my docs that this damage has really occurred, because I no longer have the verbal eloquence to express myself in a reasoned, intelligent way. I just sound hysterical and histrionical… as though these are just my fears and nothing else.  BUT I TELL YOU, I FEEL THE DAMAGE AND I’M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW HOW TO WORD IT IN QUITE A WAY THAT EXPRESSES HOW IT FEELS TO STRUGGLE WITH PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE.  I FEEL AS IF I’VE BEEN IN A CAR ACCIDENT, the damage feels very diffuse, as if my brain is a sweater that has gone through the dryer too many times – frayed synapses and torn connections. I know this post also sounds very black and white, because I’ve lost my ability to employ my formally rich and subtle grasp of the English language to convey my point across… all I’m doing here is rambling and whining.  I think I’ve also lost some of my organizational ability (because my short-term memory is fried) so I’m sorry if this post is winding, convoluted and very horribly worded. Also (I feel) Anafranil and Prozac have also given me acquired ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder). Sorry this post is so disorganized.  I can no longer express myself and I have trouble remembering where I am in a thought and where my thoughts are leading (if these are in fact thoughts at all!). The most frightening damaged I’ve noticed from the meds is that I found an old diary of mine (written 5 years ago PRIOR to the meds) and I’m amazed that some of the words used were even part of my vocabulary.  I no longer have the retention to recall those words or their context of usage.  SORRY IF I’M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE MY WORDS NO LONGER HAVE ANY IMPACT AND I AM UNABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF EXCEPT LIKE A TEENAGER. This is not to scare people off meds. Some people will need them for life because their symptoms are so severe. I’m just talking from my own experience with one (Anafranil), and am expressing my frustration and sadness from the loss(es) I’ve experienced more than anything.. I also notice a permanent emotional flattening (or dulling) that I can’t explain either.  This is very scary to me also, because I’m only 35 and have many more years to live. I am almost certain that if this gets worse over time, and the damage is compounded with natural deterioration from aging, I will no longer want to be alive. I am a shell of my former self, and am struggling with these subtle cognitive effects THAT HAVE NOT LET UP EVEN AFTER OVER A YEAR BEING OFF THE ANAFRANIL AND PROZAC. So obviously something has happened, but I don’t know what.  Obviously my psychiatrist won’t tell me anything because THAT’S WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO – PRESCRIBE MEDICATION!  Most of his education (I’m sure) is funded by the drug companies.. and I’m sure he rationalizes his prescribing of this brain damaging shit by thinking "Oh, well if she kills herself or something, then I can’t say I didn’t try my best to help her." No doubt, SSRI’s and other meds have some positive effects. The *only* positive effect I’ve noticed is my lows aren’t quite as low as they used to be. That’s about it.  Other than that, I’m a brain damaged vegetable who can no longer carry on a conversation. THERE ARE NO THOUGHTS IN MY HEAD ANYMORE.  I struggle to write this post.  I’m sure it is longwinded as I’ve completely lost my sense of verbal precision. I hope someone who has had the same experience can post. I feel so alone. patricia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself. Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I don’t know.  I liken this problem to one I have regards colors on my computer monitor.  It is capable of , and supposed to be able to use 256 colors, but I have always only been able to get 16 colors! I am never without words, like my monitor is never without color  BUT..not always the precise word, or right color…and with such a limited number offered up to chose from  when articulating, I find my description is always much harsher than words

Me too. I find I have that problem frequently, like not wanting to seem to "black and white" in my thinking or too simplistic. But my arsenal of vocabulary is so limited that I end up choosing words that communicate a very caricaturistic picture. But I notice that you express yourself in a very interesting way. You seem to break some of the "rules" on purpose and your posts seem richer and more flavorful than most. I would have used or like my screen colors  are harsher lacking access to the full array and color schemes my old monitor had. Sometimes while seeking to find the words to articulate a thought, an image will flash through my mind instead, revealing my meaning.    people then wind up being told they behave like altar boys, and ghouls, and snakes and sharks and other animals,  especially reptiles a lot.  LOL Their actually the lucky ones…as the ones I got no picture shortcut to articulate my meanings get these rambling replies…where  not finding the right words to make the point..have to settle for my suggesting what my point is..LOL

Sometimes images are very powerful, but I see what you mean. At this point however, my brain is at a juncture where even images don’t appear anymore.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it… Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. Disinhibition,  where you  have no qualms about doing or saying in public what you normally be too inhibited to do or say, due to social conventions or your own personal code when normal. .

That’s what I thought. It sounds almost like a frontal lobotomy effect. I have the rest of what you wrote saved.,   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You wrote somewhere that people will not admit that what you write doesn’t make sense. Well it makes sense to me..   Patricia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Patricia…this is Gemini. So so sorry for what you been through and are going through and feeling.. I know what you are saying…it’s been nearly a year I been off all meds except thyroid meds. and its the same for me.. I  get called dummy girl, imbecile, demented, stupid, idiot..still on account of it. Tis not true. .Like you say, its subtle and effects ability to articulate,  access and retrieve right words, and such..not your thinking or cognition  itself. Exactly. Even though I have somewhat of a muted picture of what I really want to say, I can’t find the words to say it.   What part(s) of the brain govern this I wonder? I don’t know.  I liken this problem to one I have regards colors on my computer monitor.  It is capable of , and supposed to be able to use 256 colors, but I have always only been able to get 16 colors! If you relate to my analogy at all…my computer must be missing  the Drivers..that allow it to display 256 colors its capable of  rather than only the 16 it now does…. . same with my brain…the capacity is there…same with the knowledge,  all there…stored..I am sure. So I  must be missing drivers needed for complete search  or in the search engine itself sustained damage…so only so much of what I know is presented during retrieval.. forcing me to choose among much more limited range of words and info to express my ideas, thoughts and beliefs…. Regards this.kind of problem…I like what Scott Hamilton has to say…."only disability in life is a bad attitude"  . I am never without words, like my monitor is never without color  BUT..not always the precise word, or right color…and with such a limited number offered up to chose from  when articulating, I find my description is always much harsher than words I would have used or like my screen colors  are harsher lacking access to the full array and color schemes my old monitor had. Sometimes while seeking to find the words to articulate a thought, an image will flash through my mind instead, revealing my meaning.    people then wind up being told they behave like altar boys, and ghouls, and snakes and sharks and other animals,  especially reptiles a lot.  LOL Their actually the lucky ones…as the ones I got no picture shortcut to articulate my meanings get these rambling replies…where  not finding the right words to make the point..have to settle for my suggesting what my point is..LOL I researched it and there is now a NAME might apply  . P.A.N.E.S   for Persistant Adverse Neurological Effects Stopping SSRI’s I post any articles, I have found about it… Thanks for posting it.  Maybe if it is an actual website I can add my own story to it.  Some of the symptoms described on that site are similar to mine – disinhibition (?), mild irritability and a mild facial tic. Disinhibition,  where you  have no qualms about doing or saying in public what you normally be too inhibited to do or say, due to social conventions or your own personal code when normal. . so do a  goggle search using  P.A.N.E.S  will produce one or more of the articles on it for you.. I think I know how scared you must be. (I am) I’m very scared. I just don’t know how much damage it has done, and since I’m in my mid-thirties, will this effect multiply as I lose more cells due to aging? This whole thing is freaking me out. I been trying out and getting some relief, with dietary changes… then supplementing big time with a bunch of vitamins..etc.  I am now looking into idea a gluten intolerance or food intolerance of some kind made it so..I didnt metabolize meds like NORM,  and they got delivered to my brain in a toxic fashion..for me. What kind of vitamins do you take? Is it helping?  You mention gluten intolerance.. do you mean MSG and soy products. I read somewhere that they can also have an impact on the brain. Holistic healing…research on my part, is ongoing  big time…researching chelation,  YOGA supposed to help,  BREATHING improving circulation, anything….  However I just breached the tip of the iceberg in those areas… SSRIS are vascocontricters,  maybe prolonged use makes it remain constricted unless you do a lot of shit to open up airways.. why I am looking into ways of opening up breathing so more oxygen to brain.. might dissipate a little of this problem Only thing helped me in years…alternate remedies.alll  .one by one adding up to improvements.. Thanks for posting. I would be very interested in what kinds of remedies specifically you’re using. First I changed my diet, to a low carb, no sugar one. and that helped quite a bit. Then I took Evening Primrose, Omega 3, Calcium, Vitamin E…all recommended for PMS..plus this creme  Progestacare  made from Mexican Yam..containing Natural Progesteron,  and that helped some. Then I began walking, and that helped some. Then I added Vitamin B-100 complex and that helped two problems BIGTIME, the PMS and the depression. Drastic improvement within about 10 days of taking B-100. NO more horrific PMS since began taking B-100 about 4-5 months ago.  HUMONgous help to me. . Then I added vitamin A.with no noticable effect. I have Hashimotos Hypothyroidism, an autoimmune disorder incited disease and was reading how one can protect autoimmune system, with things like Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, Tyrosine, and Vitamin C..so I added them and it was like night and day for me regards reaction to my environment… HELPED big time. Before taking them, my life was so awful.  I was so extraordinarily sensitive to my environment, what was going on outsdie me, had my full attention, because heightened sensitivity made me easily . annoyed and irritated and always always so easiluy inflamed .  Felt like I had no inner centeredness…so reactive to my environment never had the time or inner peace to be inside myself,  and no ability whatsoever to think through my reactions…just always reacting, with emotion, leading the way, not other way round.. Toward the end my body was reacting to everything outside as a threat, and increase my production of adrenalin…so constant state of fight response prevailed…..and in that state  blind by emotion, become irrational, stop thinking, stop articulating,  ADD big problem in that state.. Since I began taking the second batch too…I stopped reacting to most things…able to maintain my calm, not easily flamed and inflamed..feel much more centered,  in control, even keeled, not feeling  threatened by every little thing,  and with no more of that awful autoimmune response, blinding me with Feelings, cant think through…things way better regards this other problem. Doent improve the problme itself…but least its not compounded by awful stress response.makes it 5 times worse, regards articulation,  ADD, memory, word retrieval etc. Recently, it came to my attention alll my problems altogether are symptomatic of celiac disease…or gluten intolerance..which is an inability to metabloze some grains,   wheat, barley, oats..etc.. Upon that discovery, I changed my diet to gluten free….one…which I like better, cause except for breads, I never have like glutens much any way, but surre missed carb high foods like potatos..etc. Helped some too. We been having some discussion here of the role oxygen deprivation plays in depression.  Then i was feeling panicy about something, and getting paniced over feeling panicky when someone told me about the alt. nostril breathing..and it TOOK care of that problem.  Encouraged, I decided to see if some more experiements in this are  produce some improvement. Up to then I been walking, regular.  But, wanting to experiement some…I bought a bike..trying to, do something might cause rapid breathing… and being winded,  (here I having problems finding the words)  just doing something make my systme work harder and faster…you know where you get that exhilirated feeling from activity…and I find following more rigorous excersise like that… big improvement, though temporary with this problem we been discussing.  but immediately following rigorous exercise I have more clarity of thought,  more ability to articulate, less ADD…soon turns back to shit… but least I know how I can clear my mind up some…then MAKE important phone calls..or appointments for business matters. Lately I been busy, busy, busy, not much time for usenet, or on line activities…and I have notices it doesnt get so bad for me until I sit down at computer which has me  wondering if I am one of those people effected by the various emissions from computers..such I .NEED to house this thing..so NOT impaired by emission while using it!  LOL Do you happne to have to

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Response:

Question:

ok I know its not the best idea to increase meds without consent of your dr but when you don’t have one what is a person to do. When I first started taking the effex 37.5 I didn’t really notice much then came the increases..after the nasty nasty side effects I really started feeling better.(now on 150) had about 2 really great weeks then came the crash!! all I wanted 2 do was sleep..so up I went to 187.5. for the most the anxiety is good(unless I am that great!! I am doing ok in the sleep department now not like before when I was up for most of the night. Now I have to ask myself what I can do to get rid of this tiredness!!! when I get home from work I have to sleep for an hr I would sleep more but I ask 2 be waken. My job is office work so I am not physically tired but very mentally draining..its very fast paced and I where a 100 different hats. I am on a very strong vitamin and a natural supplement and drink my tea with ok with me cuz I have never been a day time eater. so I am not sure if I need to increase or am I on to high of a dose and this is where the tiredness comes in????? thoughts welcomed…..

Response:

okay—question–are you taking regular effexor or effexor xr?  i ask because i could not tolerate the extended release at higher dosages, it literally made me fall asleep in the middle of the afternoon when i took the meds the night before.  however, once i went to regular effexor, so i could split the dosage i was able to tolerate a higher dose. of course, if you are self medicating–or not under someone’s care–it would be tough to switch the meds connemara —    Providing a VOICE to survivors of abuse     Educating the community about abuse        And supporting those who need it!                  The Comforter Network            http://www.comforternetwork.org/ Remove spam from email for response.

Response:

Make sure you are eating before you take the medicine. Hold at a dosage for a while before you change. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."                                                            - Abraham Lincoln

Response:

I am taking XR….. i changed to the XR cuz the regular stuff made me want to yack all the time. But the XR stuff did every time i increased. But after a while that went away. BTW i took the plunge last night and increased the dose to 225mg XR. I still woke a little foggy this morning and the yack is back but i am sure that will disapear. For the tiredness yes its still here but not as bad but my "crash time is usually later in the afternoon. But i am the same when i crash i do big time… i could even sleep on the floor when it hits me. lets hope this is the fix

Response:

I’m also on Effexor xr.. my pharmacist told me to spread out when I take the individual capsules throughout the day and eve. In other words, experiment. As for your new dosage, it is still with the norm of prescribed levels. The only thing to watch is your blood pressure. If you are here in the US you can get it checked at a machine at a big drugstore. Remember that it is normal to have to increase dosage until your body reaches a saturation point where it no longer tries to "down regulate" (compensate) further.

Response:

Wow when I had a family doc when I first started taking this med(effex xr) he advised me to take the pills all at the same time because they were time released. I am in Canada and in a small town…..they are just getting the b-pressure machines..I am interested in this saturation point? I don’t really understand it but what’s interesting is that when I first started taking this med (after 2 weeks) I felt great….then it slowly went away like I gained a quick tolerance to it…I know that this med takes a couple of weeks before you feel it but after increasing it for the second day I do feel better…I know I gain tolerances to other meds cuz this has happen before(analgesics) I am not sure were I saw this but I am sure it was here…..someone was saying that they had a low folic acid and it contribute to tiredness?? I also know this is more comment in women then men…but before getting treatment for the depression about a yr ago my foot fell numb and was tested for diabetes(runs in the family) but I was fine whoever they found that I had a very low level of folic acid… could low levels of folic acid be caused from using to much Tylenol with codeine?? again thx for the help people… feeling better today

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m also on Effexor xr.. my pharmacist told me to spread out when I take the individual capsules throughout the day and eve. In other words, experiment. As for your new dosage, it is still with the norm of prescribed levels. The only thing to watch is your blood pressure. If you are here in the US you can get it checked at a machine at a big drugstore. Remember that it is normal to have to increase dosage until your body reaches a saturation point where it no longer tries to "down regulate" (compensate) further.

Response:

Sorry, I can’t answer about the folic acid. Perhaps someone else can. My understanding about folic acid needs as regards women is that a developing fetus needs it develop properly. Not so much that women per se need it more than men do. Coincidently, I too have numbness radiating from the area between my first and second toes on both feet and its cause remains a mystery after many tests by neurologists, rheumatologists, etc. Anyone else? I’ve been on a number of different ADs over several years, but all specialists seem to discount them as a cause.

Response:

You might want to see a podiatrist about the foot.  I had the same thing and when the doctor did the surgery on the bunion, he also removed the nerve that was inflamed and causing the numbness.   Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sorry, I can’t answer about the folic acid. Perhaps someone else can. My understanding about folic acid needs as regards women is that a developing fetus needs it develop properly. Not so much that women per se need it more than men do. Coincidently, I too have numbness radiating from the area between my first and second toes on both feet and its cause remains a mystery after many tests by neurologists, rheumatologists, etc. Anyone else? I’ve been on a number of different ADs over several years, but all specialists seem to discount them as a cause.

Response:

That’s interesting that I keep hearing that people are extremely tired on Effexor XR. I get up around 6:30am and take 150mg at around 9am with a little bit of food (which I force myself to eat most of the time) and I am completely and totally awake (and motivated!) all day long and can sleep very well at night. If you go to the official Effexor XR website (www.effexorxr.com) you will see that the XR capsules should only be taken ONCE a day with a meal. If you are having trouble sleeping at night, then you will definitely want to try it out and switch to taking them in the mornings and just once, like myself. The ONLY side effect I have noticed on 150mg is that I often grind my teeth at night and feel tense in my jaw during the day. I have experience weight loss also. Other than that, I have felt almost 100% better since taking Effexor XR. – Stephanie

Response:

Thx Stephanie 4 the feedback… I would start taken it in the morning but the dr told me take it after your largest meal and for me that’s around 6pm(the first time I eat during the day) I am doing OK in the sleep department now…I did go through the no sleep thing to.. Do people think that changing the med time will change the wanting sleep time?? thx again

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s interesting that I keep hearing that people are extremely tired on Effexor XR. I get up around 6:30am and take 150mg at around 9am with a little bit of food (which I force myself to eat most of the time) and I am completely and totally awake (and motivated!) all day long and can sleep very well at night. If you go to the official Effexor XR website (www.effexorxr.com) you will see that the XR capsules should only be taken ONCE a day with a meal. If you are having trouble sleeping at night, then you will definitely want to try it out and switch to taking them in the mornings and just once, like myself. The ONLY side effect I have noticed on 150mg is that I often grind my teeth at night and feel tense in my jaw during the day. I have experience weight loss also. Other than that, I have felt almost 100% better since taking Effexor XR. – Stephanie

Response:

I take my Effexor XR with breakfast, which seems to work the best. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."                                                            - Abraham Lincoln

Response:

Question:

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts of medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble and at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t use it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

Response:

Your best bet is to have it checked out next time you see your doctor.  It may be side effects from your meds that could be easily corrected.  

Response:

Hi BG, My daughter Harley used to be on that combination and i`m afraid to say it made her very very poorly ;-( She used to get "tremors" with it…in fact she got so bad that her whole body shook. But she obviously had a bad reaction to it. Could it be breakthrough sz`s? She also tremors from the ep. Have you ever tried Topiramate?…When Harley had to be weaned off the Lamotrogine,she was put onto that. Although she still doesn`t have full control,it has been the best combo she has had,and at the moment seems to be doing really well(for her!). My youngest son Marshall has just started on Lamotrogine with Epilim too,so please wish me(him!) luck! I hope you get some answers,please let us all know how you get on. Lisa,James,Harley and Marshall ;0) Zvi Galil <g_…@netvision.net.il

wrote in message

news:8umj9e$g3u$2@news.netvision.net.il… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts

of

medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble

and

at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t

use

it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

Response:

You may want to be checked out by your doctor to see if it is side effects of medication.  You may also want him/her to check and see if it is the neurological movement disorder called essential tremor.  I have this and it makes me shake uncontrollably like you are talking about.  Hope you get the help you need. Rounder3 <round…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001113102239.20750.00001376@ng-fd1.aol.com… | Your best bet is to have it checked out next time you see your doctor.  It may | be side effects from your meds that could be easily corrected.

Response:

Hi, I see that you’ve already got some good recommendations already. It helps to know that you’re not alone, doesn’t it? My nieces has epilepsy and I have narcolepsy. I was put on a drug many years ago which I thought was an answer to prayer. It was called NARDIL. I have heard that it’s been around for a long time and not used too much anymore because of it’s diet constraints. If one doesn’t follow the diet restrictions instructed while taking the drug it could cause stroke/heart attack at any age. Anyway, I felt great on it initially,….was awake and had energy during the day. THEN the weird facial palsy stuff started happening. First gradually, just at night a couple of times and then more often and happening during the day. I was scared and didn’t think about relating side-effects to the drug at first. Then another side-effect was that I *couldn’t* get more sleep than 4 hours at a time and my body became more and more exhausted. The drug wasn’t "letting" my brain have normal sleep anymore in reverse. Narcolepsy without medication is when you fall asleep ALL the time. Needless to say, I reported to my doctor and was taken off the drug. She told me that the side-effects I had did happen to some people when taking Nardil. Additionally, once I was given *Phenothyiasine* (sp?) when I was a teenager for "dry heaves" when I was extremely ill with the flu. Gross,…but I kept retching even when I didn’t have any more to throw up. (sorry for description) By end of day two on it, it was throughing me into seizures. So unfortunately, what you’re experiencing could be directly related to your medication, but as the others have urged,….it’s best to go to your doctor about it. Sara  :) Zvi Galil <g_…@netvision.net.il

wrote in message

news:8umj9e$g3u$2@news.netvision.net.il… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts

of

medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble

and

at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t

use

it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

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Response:

Question:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Response:

Hi!  I was on Prozac and Trazedone for a couple of years.  I am still taking Trazedone at night (taking other meds during the day).  Trazedone at a therapeutic dose at night will help you sleep good and hopefully will enable you after 8 hours of sleep to awaken refreshed and the Prozac should help keep you movin during the day. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience?

<//< Cynthia / Southern California "Jesus Wept"

Response:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

Response:

Wilfredo, I took prozac for a while and trazadone also.  Separately.  I’m currently on no meds for depression (except my thyroid LOL) but I do still occasionally take 50-100 mg of trazadone at night to sleep.  My psychiatrist gave it to me and continues to prescribe it.  It’s on an as needed basis.  I love that stuff! Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

Response:

Question:

Wait and take the next one when you are suppose. If you missed one dosage it won’t hurt you. You may want to get a pill box and then if you think you have missed a dosage you can look and tell if it missing. Hope your day goes well. K. HAVE A WONDERFULLY FUN FILLED DAY!!!!

Response:

I usually cant remember whether I took my meds or not so I went out and bought one of those cute pill reminder box. Mine is plastic and about 4 in. long and a thumbnail wide.It has 7 little compartments with each one having a snap top and the letter of the week on top. They come in many sizes depending on how many pills a day you have to take. I fill mine once a week. If I am about to run out of a med I see it coming a week in advance. Also if you suffer from OCD it really helps you KNOW that you took that pill, so you wont obsess on that. Or if you just have 10 million things on your plate and cant remeber much of anything anymore, lol, it helps. Chow love Brenda

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to respond to this having made this mistake myself not long ago. DO NOT take the extra dose!!! I did that and overdosed myself. You will be better off waiting until your next scheduled dose and just going from there. Your body will not miss the zoloft if you’ve been on it awhile. Just don’t make a habit of it, ok? Mary That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious)

Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

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I’d quote but the beginning of this thread is gone (yes I’m on AOL)… If it helps you any, try putting your morning meds (for me it’s an SSRI and a hormone) in a container (I use the top of the Nyquil bottle…hey it’s free) and keep that by the bed. Make it a practice to leave your BOTTLE in the living room and only put your morning meds in there before you go to bed (like a routine). I’ve found I can get them in my system faster, which helps me get to sleep earlier that night, in case I just wake up early, take the meds and feel like going back to sleep instead of getting up completely. Keep a small glass of water and the cup and turn the med cup upside down when you’ve taken them. Sometimes my OCD comes in handy  This method sure beats looking at the label and counting and subtracting, blah blah….BTDT and found this helps. All the best. Miriam

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i use a pill box to keep meds straight.before i go to bed i put the next day meds in the pill box,also my husband takes heart meds.he keeps them in a box.when he takes one he turns the bottle up side down.no more guessing or mistakes .let me share something else with you.at times it is hard to swoller pills.use a straw taking pills .you can’t believe how much easier it is. hope some of this helps. good luck. fanny

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious) Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary

I thought it would be somewhat like this. Overdosing on a TCA is worse…. I think in 31 years I have missed a dose twice…and the *idea* brings on panic with me (with a benzo it’s different, I notice that very soon and that’s not just psychological). Many  people need pill organizers or a similar system. We may well all  have Alzheimer’s at ASAP, if that would be the criterion ) Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

Response:

Chuck, I’m one day late on this question, but I’ll give you some advice for the future. Keep a record of whenever you take meds. I have a calender next to my pill bottles and indicate whenever I have taken a med. I started doing this because sometimes I forget what I’ve taken, especially if it’s first thing in the morning and I’m still half asleep. I do lots of crazy stuff in the morning, like making coffee without adding the water. Or putting my shirt on backwards. Or missing the toilet when I pee. In fact, sometimes I sit down to pee. (that way there’s a better chance of hitting the target) One lady at ASAP said she didn’t know why her husband sat down in the AM to pee. She thought he was doing strange things. I didn’t say anything at the time, to keep her in suspence I suppose, or maybe just to keep her on her toes. Chip p.s. missing one day of Zoloft won’t hurt. To all –