Question:

I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-)

Suggestion:  Pulmicort ™ (brand of budesonide) has been approved by the FDA for use in the United States, although it may not yet be commonly available.  It is quite a bit stronger than Aerobid ™ (brand of flunisolide).  You might try asking your doctor to try you on Pulmicort ™. I’ve been on it for over a year with zero problems. (However, I am adrenally insufficient, and had to have both hips replaced, because of long-term prednisone.  I am currently on hydrocortisone replacement therapy.  Your mileage may vary.)

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not

Since stopping with freon propelled inhilators I no longer get the shakes. Also, my asthma is much better to the point that I am convinced that the propellant was aggravating my asthma. I now use Bricanyl and Pulmicort both of which are from ASTRA pharma Inc . in Mississauga, Ontario. These are packaged in "turbuhalers" which are breath activated. That is, by breathing in the medication in powder form is picked up. I will never use inhilators with propellants again.

Response:

(JSterl7511) writes: I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the

Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds,

averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package

inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had

enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) Why does AeroBid list so many side effects [adverse events] in their package insert and the PDR? FACT:  AeroBid was approved by the FDA in 1984, just after the mandate from FDA that ALL adverse events, whether directly associated with the drug or not, be listed. Thus, Vanceril, Beclovent and Azmacort – all approved by FDA prior to the mandate, do not list such occurrences. Flovent (fluticasone), recently approved by FDA, also lists all adverse events in their package insert. Pulmicort (budesonide),  has been submitted to FDA and received an ‘approvable letter’ in June ‘96 but not yet approved, will also list all adverse events. Thus, AeroBid has no greater side effect risk than does Vanceril, Beclovent or Azmacort. The same can be said about Flovent and Pulmicort. A suggestion that may help to reduce or even eliminate systemic related effects of AeroBid (including taste) or any inhaled steroid is to try an AeroChamber. This is a holding chamber (spacer device) that has been shown to reduce the amount of drug that ends up in the mouth and throat by six fold, without impairing the small drug particle availability which actually navigates to the lower airways and provides the topical benefit of inhaled steroid (antiinflammatory) therapy. If you have been on a 2000 mcg (8 puffs daily) dose for 2 years without an asthma attack, try the AeroChamber before changing horses, so to say. Tim Wood

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I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do? Cut down the dosage or move onto another medication. I’d appreciate hearing from someone with similar experience. Thanks. John  Sterling

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do?

I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds, averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  "There seems to be no mainframe Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware,       in which we’re living." the opinions expressed herein                 — President Bill Clinton are not those of my employer.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive:yes x-no-archive:yes The crappiest part of working a real late-night shift is seeing the sun come up in the morning while you’re still there. Ugh. There’s just something about that that feels wrong, no matter what. Sure, before I started this shift I would see the sunrise from home, but it’s different in some way when you’re sitting at a desk and look up to see the horizon turning that pale pinkish-grey colour. There’s something spiritually uncomfortable about it. It is worth it, though. My team started working in the new building last night, and we got our pick of desks. I have a nice, roomy cubicle and sit by my hubby, right across from another woman I’ve become very good friends with. I’ve never had my own cubicle before. It makes me feel so employed! It’s *my* cubicle that I don’t have to timeshare with anyone else. Now I can brighten it up with pictures of my kitties. oooh. i’m jealous. i want a cubicle. It’s fun. Except my computer is white. At the other building we had sleek, sexy black computers, and now we have generic looking whitish ones. Ah, well. Black would have clashed with the baby-poo yellow of the walls, I suppose.

Gosh! It never crossed my mind to think how the color of my computer in my office goes with the color of the walls. Is it because I am a boy??? One month, three days, 8 hours, 22 minutes and 2 seconds. 858 cigarettes not smoked, saving $133.10. Life saved: 2 days, 23 hours, 30 minutes. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive:yes The crappiest part of working a real late-night shift is seeing the sun come up in the morning while you’re still there. Ugh. There’s just something about that that feels wrong, no matter what. Sure, before I started this shift I would see the sunrise from home, but it’s different in some way when you’re sitting at a desk and look up to see the horizon turning that pale pinkish-grey colour. There’s something spiritually uncomfortable about it. It is worth it, though. My team started working in the new building last night, and we got our pick of desks. I have a nice, roomy cubicle and sit by my hubby, right across from another woman I’ve become very good friends with. I’ve never had my own cubicle before. It makes me feel so employed! It’s *my* cubicle that I don’t have to timeshare with anyone else. Now I can brighten it up with pictures of my kitties.

Hey, I have a cubicle too. But it is so small, that it would be too personal to have a visitor in there, LOL. One month, three days, 8 hours, 14 minutes and 56 seconds. 858 cigarettes not smoked, saving $133.08. Life saved: 2 days, 23 hours, 30 minutes. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial

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Question:

I saw a cardiologist today, & got an echocardiogram. It’s major heart failure. Some more tests will be done, then it’s probably defibrilator?(restarts heart?)  or heart transplant, or just meds while I wait for a heart donor. This super sux! Had I been told about all the dangers, probable harm done, ongoing expenses, pain & suffering, ….. ongoing major wastes of time, resources, & effort, …… before I went through the regular govt-regulated cancer cr*p-care, ….. then I’d probably have opted out of it, & tried something else. There has to be something better than this total BS, and the extreme lack of quality medical testing & care afterwards. Maybe it looks better on the oncologist’s reports, to say "the cancer patient died after successfully completing chemo & rads", ….. rather than say "the cancer treatments were worse than the cancer could have been", & caused heart failure & multiple other serious health problems, which killed the patient? The cardiologist thinks that the cancer treatments are responsible for destroying my heart. I think that the injuries of Jan. 1998, damaged my heart, ….. & that the chemo treatments (esp. Arimidex), did more damage. Cancer care has proved a major betrayal of trust. It’s been like pulling teeth, to get any testing & diagnosis of the severe difficulties breathing, which has now proved to be congestive heart failure, ….. & to get to see a cardiologist. I had an echocardiogram done earlier today (7:30 AM) in Longview, but the results never came in, so we had to do another one locally, late this afternoon. Nothing works right here!  It’s a constant battle to get anything done, esp. concerning health care. Avoid Texas & Louisiana when seeking health care. The quality controls/etc. are NOT enforced here. [The Texas State Board of Medical Examiners, like most other govt agencies here, is a bad joke.] The laws have been set-up/rigged, so you can’t sue the bad docs, hospitals & such, regardless. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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Sure does!! Seems like one physical problem should be the limit for a person. Good luck!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a cardiologist today, & got an echocardiogram. It’s major heart failure. Some more tests will be done, then it’s probably defibrilator?(restarts heart?)  or heart transplant, or just meds while I wait for a heart donor. This super sux! Had I been told about all the dangers, probable harm done, ongoing expenses, pain & suffering, ….. ongoing major wastes of time, resources, & effort, …… before I went through the regular govt-regulated cancer cr*p-care, ….. then I’d probably have opted out of it, & tried something else. There has to be something better than this total BS, and the extreme lack of quality medical testing & care afterwards. Maybe it looks better on the oncologist’s reports, to say "the cancer patient died after successfully completing chemo & rads", ….. rather than say "the cancer treatments were worse than the cancer could have been", & caused heart failure & multiple other serious health problems, which killed the patient? The cardiologist thinks that the cancer treatments are responsible for destroying my heart. I think that the injuries of Jan. 1998, damaged my heart, ….. & that the chemo treatments (esp. Arimidex), did more damage. Cancer care has proved a major betrayal of trust. It’s been like pulling teeth, to get any testing & diagnosis of the severe difficulties breathing, which has now proved to be congestive heart failure, ….. & to get to see a cardiologist. I had an echocardiogram done earlier today (7:30 AM) in Longview, but the results never came in, so we had to do another one locally, late this afternoon. Nothing works right here!  It’s a constant battle to get anything done, esp. concerning health care. Avoid Texas & Louisiana when seeking health care. The quality controls/etc. are NOT enforced here. [The Texas State Board of Medical Examiners, like most other govt agencies here, is a bad joke.] The laws have been set-up/rigged, so you can’t sue the bad docs, hospitals & such, regardless. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a cardiologist today, & got an echocardiogram. It’s major heart failure. Some more tests will be done, then it’s probably defibrilator?(restarts heart?)  or heart transplant, or just meds while I wait for a heart donor. This super sux! Had I been told about all the dangers, probable harm done, ongoing expenses, pain & suffering, ….. ongoing major wastes of time, resources, & effort, …… before I went through the regular govt-regulated cancer cr*p-care, ….. then I’d probably have opted out of it, & tried something else. There has to be something better than this total BS, and the extreme lack of quality medical testing & care afterwards. Maybe it looks better on the oncologist’s reports, to say "the cancer patient died after successfully completing chemo & rads", ….. rather than say "the cancer treatments were worse than the cancer could have been", & caused heart failure & multiple other serious health problems, which killed the patient? The cardiologist thinks that the cancer treatments are responsible for destroying my heart.

Adriamycin? Eva

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Adriamycin? I think it was that & Taxol, but I’d have to go back & check the Google archives. However, the chemo seemed as nothing, when compared to the severe adverse effects of Arimidex. Arimidex super-inflamed my whole body, itching, burning, hurting (pain beyond belief), …. I couldn’t stand up without collapsing, couldn’t breathe, couldn’t walk & function (usually had to keep trying all day, to be able to get up & do anything) ….. super-bad chemically-induced depression, which got worse when I tried to move around & do things. Arimidex went to every injury & super-reinflamed them, plus it went to most of the uninjured parts & super-inflamed them too. It weakened just about everything, so that when I tried to walk, it would injure the muscles & such in my foot, ankle, leg, …. my wrist, hand, fingers would get very sore & inflamed. For me, Arimidex was a nightmare. After about 18 months, the Arimidex caused sudden acute lymphedema, …. which condition lessened a great deal once I stopped taking Arimidex. After it swelled, the arm was so painful, itching, burning, ….. that I would react on a primitive level with "cut it off", "gnaw it off", anything, "just get it off", …. & have to stop myself. It was that bad. Shortly after that, despite the doc’s warnings & his constant strong denials ["It is Not the Arimidex."], I stopped taking Arimidex. I learned that much of the damage done by Armidex, is not reversible. It destroys most normal feelings in the body. I was very concerned that these side effects had not been reported, until the oncologist smirked & said (finally admitted), ….. that the adverse reactions I was having, were normal with Arimidex, that they were common. ?! The docs just meet & know us for a short while, but their relationship with the PHARMA companies (& their expensive & harm-filled drugs) goes on & on. At the Cancer Center in Longview, there’s a room devoted to this, to the PHARMA experiments, ….. which I did NOT choose to be a part of, but was (Arimidex). It will be interesting to learn which cancer drug is the most responsible for causing the major heart failure. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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Su-Texas, could you not have switched to Tamoxifen rather than remain bedridden for 18 months? I do know two people who had side-effects from Arimidex, one decided to take Tamoxifen, and the other decided to take neither. To the best of my knowledge they are still doing well. The doc refused to switch me, until the very end, & the other estrogen-blocker-stuff had similar bad effects. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arimidex super-inflamed my whole body, itching, burning, hurting (pain beyond belief), …. I couldn’t stand up without collapsing, couldn’t breathe, couldn’t walk & function (usually had to keep trying all day, to be able to get up & do anything) ….. super-bad chemically-induced depression, which got worse when I tried to move around & do things. Arimidex went to every injury & super-reinflamed them, plus it went to most of the uninjured parts & super-inflamed them too. It weakened just about everything, so that when I tried to walk, it would injure the muscles & such in my foot, ankle, leg, …. my wrist, hand, fingers would get very sore & inflamed. For me, Arimidex was a nightmare. After about 18 months, the Arimidex caused sudden acute lymphedema, …. which condition lessened a great deal once I stopped taking Arimidex.

Su-Texas,  could you not have switched to Tamoxifen rather than remain bedridden for 18 months? I do know two people who had side-effects from Arimidex, one decided to take Tamoxifen, and the other decided to take neither.  To the best of my knowledge they are still doing well. Marilyn

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Avoid Texas & Louisiana The best I can remember, Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, is heavily involved in using/testing Arimidex, ….. so they’ll push it regardless, no matter how much harm it’s doing. Avoid Universities It’s best to avoid the universities (medical schools) if at all possible, when seeking medical care, …… mostly because of their special interests (PHARMA grant money for the school, students & professors), …… their over-pushing of whatever experimental drugs they’re paid to, …… & their use of students (the un- or under-skilled) as doctors. Many doctors can’t do a semi-decent job of medical care, much less students. And at Parkland/Aston/SWMed in Dallas, they basically let their students run wild, ….. run some clinics, such a Spine & Joint, without adult/teacher supervision. ?! The profs would rather be elsewhere. It’s shocking how bad (a total waste of time & $$$, how lacking & harmful) the medical care at universities can be. I can’t see how Parkland could get a good rating anywhere, esp. not in Best Hospitals. ?!  It’s a charity hospital in Dallas, that’s run as such. The area & bldgs are quite dangerous, esp. riding the elevators. No quality care for patients who do have money or good insurance. It’s one lie, meanness & run-around after another, while you get no medical care for years. And they do NOT care about complaints. Since Medicare & other insurance companies have agreed to pay docs, no matter how bad, inferior, or lacking the care, …… there’s no quality control. For the most part, you can’t convince the insurance Not to pay. This needs to be changed. The laws which prevent us from suing the docs, & which limit damages, also need to be changed. There needs to be some accountability, for the major misconduct, fraud & harm being done by the doctors, universities, hospitals. Since the Breast Clinic at Methodist Hospital in Houston, is run by the Baylor College of Medicine there, ….. it’s Not going to be a good place for info or help. M D Anderson was worse. LSU (a charity hospital) much, much worse. What I was told, is that Baylor/Methodist & MDA work on the same projects for the PHARMA companies, so there’s not much difference in the two, ….. except that people with good insurance or with money, choose Methodist. Both places have proved losers. Avoid Texas & Louisiana if at all possible, when seeking health care. Political Fraud & Graft/Greed When politicians want to waste taxpayer money in large amounts, then they’ll hire their buddies to build something, usually badly, ….. such as the unnecessary bombing out & then "rebuilding" (ain’t gonna happen) of Iraq, …… such as the building & promotion of the huge Texas Medical Center in Houston, ….. such as the building of rehabilitation centers around Texas, which are basically holding-cells for the injured, rather than places to get testing, diagnosis & good care, ….. such as building schools. Just because MDA or any other place is billed as "good" by the media (by another university), ….. does Not make it so. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions PS   Some Justice Please! At this point, I feel very angry & hurt, very badly betrayed by the MDs & their ongoing BS, their lies, cons, swindles. I think the oncologists should be force-ted their own poisons, then put in stocks on the public square for people to spit at, throw things at, pee on, jeer. They deserve no respect, no rewards, for the harm they’re doing. They deserve only the worse. And I’m hoping & praying, they get it, both in this life & the next. May they suffer horribly, fester & rot in their own vile/bile. May the spirits of those they’ve horribly harmed & murdered, haunt them for the rest of their days, ….. & be waiting to grab & rip their sorry souls apart in the most painful of ways, at their moment of death, ….. to torture & punish them for all eternity & beyond. May these hellish, lying, thieving vermin (docs) from hell, never know one moment’s peace. May they face only justice without mercy.

Response:

Adriamycin? I think it was that & Taxol, but I’d have to go back & check the Google archives. However, the chemo seemed as nothing, when compared to the severe adverse effects of Arimidex. <snip It will be interesting to learn which cancer drug is the most responsible for causing the major heart failure.

Well, Adriamycin a/k/a doxirubicin is *known* to be "cardiotoxic."  Unlike you, I was warned of this before I started taking it.  So is Herceptin, which is why I first asked you about that.  My oncologist is very careful about this and keeps checking me and sending me for tests whenever I am taking these drugs. When you mentioned the words "heart transplant," that’s when I thought of Adria, because I have read stories of women needing heart transplants years after taking it.  In fact, one of those stories was posted here last year, it was from the NY Times IIRC and was about a Christian couple whose marriage vows were being severely tested by the aftereffects of the wife’s breast cancer treatment. I’m not being sarcastic here, Susan, but do you ever read the "patient information" brochure or look it up on rxlist.com before you take a drug? Even though, as I said, my oncologist conscientiously warns me about possible side effects, I still take the time to look everything up before I ingest it. Eva

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CHF is usually very easy to diagnosis via chest xray. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=330 Sorry to hear about your new diagnosis. I don’t know if this is related to your breast cancer. Alex —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congestive Heart Failure At an ER yesterday, which I barely managed to get to in another city (kept having to pull off road & collapse), ….. I was diagnosed as having congestive heart failure. At the ER, I begged & pleaded & gasped, struggling desperately to hold on, ….. to get them to test for & find what’s wrong. The ERs have refused to do so, since Jan. 1998. Yesterday morning, the docs, including my cancer doc (oncologist), refused to see or help me, even though it was an emergency.  I couldn’t breathe. [One GP said he'd see me at 11 AM (but that I'd have to sit & wait for an opening then, which I could not do), ..... but that it would be best to go to local ER.  The local ER (ETMC) is referred to here as "the death trap", so I wasn't going there.] Most ERs here are death traps, dangerous, ….. & places to be avoided at all costs. So it was a major betrayal that no doc would help or refer me, or intercede for me yesterday, & I had to go to an ER. Usually the docs game plan seems to be, to act as determinedly dumb & dastardly as possible, to say/do/advise the wrong things, to delay & cost you the most $$$ possible, until you suffer to death horribly, in the most traumatic & terrifying ways. It’s the Medical Industry (govt, corporate & PHARMA run), NOT medical care. It’s also dangerous to go to an ER alone here. I was assaulted by an ER doc [Raymond J0rdan] in Oct. 2000 at the local ER. He seemed to get off on it, to enjoy doing harm, doing serious harm. He dislocated my C1 disc, & the brain is now collapsing on it. He looked surprised afterwards, probably that this hadn’t killed me. He was/is a DO, not an MD. The nurses just stand there & watch, & then refuse to testify later. It’s a major betrayal, but also typical of basic/primitive human nature. Since many ERs here hire rotate-a-docs, ….. that is, any doc whom a service can recruit (from all over Texas & from neighboring states), & bring in to work a shift at an ER, ….. the ERs are very dangerous. It was difficult to go to an ER yesterday, & try to beg & negotiate for help. Yesterday morning, I phoned a pulmonary specialist I’d seen a few months back, & his workers told me to go to the Good Shepherd ER & ask for him to come. This does help to get care at ERs, if they think you can get a specialist there, ….. that is, if the ER docs refuse to or can’t test & diagnose. So, when the ER doc seemed reluctant, & said that he probably wouldn’t find what the other docs couldn’t, ….. I’d ask him again to call in the specialist. And I’d remind him, that it (the specialist, the testing & diagnosis) needed to be called/ordered before 5 PM, …. or the specialist might not come, & testing not get done. I’d remind him that I was in such bad shape, I probably couldn’t make it back to Longview again. Whatever, ….. it worked. I got some testing & a diagnosis this time. It seems that this (CHF) is what has been wrong, since I fell (hit pavement & slid) in Jan. 1998, ….. but the docs refused to see or diagnose it, & they called it acute chronic bronchitis, recurring sinus infections, gastrointestinal distress, etc. CHF must be extremely difficult to see or diagnose, …. since hundreds of doctors, including those at the universities in Texas & Louisiana, have kept missing it since Jan. 1998. I was also put through surgeries & cancer treatments (2001 through 2003), while in congestive heart failure. The docs have sold me a lot of PHARMA cr*p over the years, INSTEAD OF diagnosing what I had & selling me what I needed. They’ve stood back & watched me suffer & beg. And they’ve smirked. I’ve extremely little faith or confidence in doctors, & believe we need our rights back so we can sue them for the harm they’re knowingly doing, for the harm-filled cr*p they’re constantly pushing & selling us. I do have renewed hope, now that I know what it wrong. CHF must be common, because of the number of people who post about the symptoms of it on the internet, ….. but they (& I) don’t know what it is, & the docs don’t tell us. The docs can sell a lot of pharma drugs & do a lot of further damage, by not telling us about CHF. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

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Congestive Heart Failure At an ER yesterday, which I barely managed to get to in another city (kept having to pull off road & collapse), ….. I was diagnosed as having congestive heart failure.

Had you been taking Herceptin? Eva

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Had you been taking Herceptin? No. Never. Susan, Su_Texas

Response:

Congestive Heart Failure At an ER yesterday, which I barely managed to get to in another city (kept having to pull off road & collapse), ….. I was diagnosed as having congestive heart failure. At the ER, I begged & pleaded & gasped, struggling desperately to hold on, ….. to get them to test for & find what’s wrong. The ERs have refused to do so, since Jan. 1998.

Susan, here is a link I found from the American Heart Association that has lots of information and is encouraging.  It describes treatment options: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/18/e89 Joan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday morning, the docs, including my cancer doc (oncologist), refused to see or help me, even though it was an emergency.  I couldn’t breathe. [One GP said he'd see me at 11 AM (but that I'd have to sit & wait for an opening then, which I could not do), ..... but that it would be best to go to local ER.  The local ER (ETMC) is referred to here as "the death trap", so I wasn't going there.] Most ERs here are death traps, dangerous, ….. & places to be avoided at all costs. So it was a major betrayal that no doc would help or refer me, or intercede for me yesterday, & I had to go to an ER. Usually the docs game plan seems to be, to act as determinedly dumb & dastardly as possible, to say/do/advise the wrong things, to delay & cost you the most $$$ possible, until you suffer to death horribly, in the most traumatic & terrifying ways. It’s the Medical Industry (govt, corporate & PHARMA run), NOT medical care. It’s also dangerous to go to an ER alone here. I was assaulted by an ER doc [Raymond J0rdan] in Oct. 2000 at the local ER. He seemed to get off on it, to enjoy doing harm, doing serious harm. He dislocated my C1 disc, & the brain is now collapsing on it. He looked surprised afterwards, probably that this hadn’t killed me. He was/is a DO, not an MD. The nurses just stand there & watch, & then refuse to testify later. It’s a major betrayal, but also typical of basic/primitive human nature. Since many ERs here hire rotate-a-docs, ….. that is, any doc whom a service can recruit (from all over Texas & from neighboring states), & bring in to work a shift at an ER, ….. the ERs are very dangerous. It was difficult to go to an ER yesterday, & try to beg & negotiate for help. Yesterday morning, I phoned a pulmonary specialist I’d seen a few months back, & his workers told me to go to the Good Shepherd ER & ask for him to come. This does help to get care at ERs, if they think you can get a specialist there, ….. that is, if the ER docs refuse to or can’t test & diagnose. So, when the ER doc seemed reluctant, & said that he probably wouldn’t find what the other docs couldn’t, ….. I’d ask him again to call in the specialist. And I’d remind him, that it (the specialist, the testing & diagnosis) needed to be called/ordered before 5 PM, …. or the specialist might not come, & testing not get done. I’d remind him that I was in such bad shape, I probably couldn’t make it back to Longview again. Whatever, ….. it worked. I got some testing & a diagnosis this time. It seems that this (CHF) is what has been wrong, since I fell (hit pavement & slid) in Jan. 1998, ….. but the docs refused to see or diagnose it, & they called it acute chronic bronchitis, recurring sinus infections, gastrointestinal distress, etc. CHF must be extremely difficult to see or diagnose, …. since hundreds of doctors, including those at the universities in Texas & Louisiana, have kept missing it since Jan. 1998. I was also put through surgeries & cancer treatments (2001 through 2003), while in congestive heart failure. The docs have sold me a lot of PHARMA cr*p over the years, INSTEAD OF diagnosing what I had & selling me what I needed. They’ve stood back & watched me suffer & beg. And they’ve smirked. I’ve extremely little faith or confidence in doctors, & believe we need our rights back so we can sue them for the harm they’re knowingly doing, for the harm-filled cr*p they’re constantly pushing & selling us. I do have renewed hope, now that I know what it wrong. CHF must be common, because of the number of people who post about the symptoms of it on the internet, ….. but they (& I) don’t know what it is, & the docs don’t tell us. The docs can sell a lot of pharma drugs & do a lot of further damage, by not telling us about CHF. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

Congestive Heart Failure <snip I’ve extremely little faith or confidence in doctors,

Well, Sue, if you don’t trust them I suggest that you stop seeking advice from them and look at alternative treatments. But, please, consider what your posts might be doing to other, frightened women who are new to this group. This newsgroup is alt.SUPPORT.cancer.breast, people come to seek positive advice, to gain comfort or, by using their good experiences to give support both to newly diagnosed people and to those whose condition is progressing. We really don’t need a constant barrage of criticism of the people most of us do trust – and want to trust. They are the doctors of all kinds who have done their best to heal our bodies and spirits and, in most cases, succeed. Doctors aren’t magicians and of course there are mistakes made sometimes – the wo/man who never made a mistake never made anything. Most of us, though, want to trust our doctors, most of us do and most of us – even if our diagnosis is less than we’d like – stay positive and make the most of our lives. I know that I owe my life to two skilled surgeons and their teams. I owe much of my well-being to a series of supportive GPs and their practices. I can’t be unique. Also, we’ve been inspired on this group by some magnificent women who have advised, cheered, amused us even when they’ve eventually died. We’re saddened by their loss but privileged to have known them. We don’t want or need to hear medical care damned. If you’re not happy with your care don’t have it but please, please, don’t discourage others. Mary

Response:

Congestive Heart Failure At an ER yesterday, which I barely managed to get to in another city (kept having to pull off road & collapse), ….. I was diagnosed as having congestive heart failure. At the ER, I begged & pleaded & gasped, struggling desperately to hold on, ….. to get them to test for & find what’s wrong. The ERs have refused to do so, since Jan. 1998. Yesterday morning, the docs, including my cancer doc (oncologist), refused to see or help me, even though it was an emergency.  I couldn’t breathe. [One GP said he'd see me at 11 AM (but that I'd have to sit & wait for an opening then, which I could not do), ..... but that it would be best to go to local ER.  The local ER (ETMC) is referred to here as "the death trap", so I wasn't going there.] Most ERs here are death traps, dangerous, ….. & places to be avoided at all costs. So it was a major betrayal that no doc would help or refer me, or intercede for me yesterday, & I had to go to an ER. Usually the docs game plan seems to be, to act as determinedly dumb & dastardly as possible, to say/do/advise the wrong things, to delay & cost you the most $$$ possible, until you suffer to death horribly, in the most traumatic & terrifying ways. It’s the Medical Industry (govt, corporate & PHARMA run), NOT medical care. It’s also dangerous to go to an ER alone here. I was assaulted by an ER doc [Raymond J0rdan] in Oct. 2000 at the local ER. He seemed to get off on it, to enjoy doing harm, doing serious harm. He dislocated my C1 disc, & the brain is now collapsing on it. He looked surprised afterwards, probably that this hadn’t killed me. He was/is a DO, not an MD. The nurses just stand there & watch, & then refuse to testify later. It’s a major betrayal, but also typical of basic/primitive human nature. Since many ERs here hire rotate-a-docs, ….. that is, any doc whom a service can recruit (from all over Texas & from neighboring states), & bring in to work a shift at an ER, ….. the ERs are very dangerous. It was difficult to go to an ER yesterday, & try to beg & negotiate for help. Yesterday morning, I phoned a pulmonary specialist I’d seen a few months back, & his workers told me to go to the Good Shepherd ER & ask for him to come. This does help to get care at ERs, if they think you can get a specialist there, ….. that is, if the ER docs refuse to or can’t test & diagnose. So, when the ER doc seemed reluctant, & said that he probably wouldn’t find what the other docs couldn’t, ….. I’d ask him again to call in the specialist. And I’d remind him, that it (the specialist, the testing & diagnosis) needed to be called/ordered before 5 PM, …. or the specialist might not come, & testing not get done. I’d remind him that I was in such bad shape, I probably couldn’t make it back to Longview again. Whatever, ….. it worked. I got some testing & a diagnosis this time. It seems that this (CHF) is what has been wrong, since I fell (hit pavement & slid) in Jan. 1998, ….. but the docs refused to see or diagnose it, & they called it acute chronic bronchitis, recurring sinus infections, gastrointestinal distress, etc. CHF must be extremely difficult to see or diagnose, …. since hundreds of doctors, including those at the universities in Texas & Louisiana, have kept missing it since Jan. 1998. I was also put through surgeries & cancer treatments (2001 through 2003), while in congestive heart failure. The docs have sold me a lot of PHARMA cr*p over the years, INSTEAD OF diagnosing what I had & selling me what I needed. They’ve stood back & watched me suffer & beg. And they’ve smirked. I’ve extremely little faith or confidence in doctors, & believe we need our rights back so we can sue them for the harm they’re knowingly doing, for the harm-filled cr*p they’re constantly pushing & selling us. I do have renewed hope, now that I know what it wrong. CHF must be common, because of the number of people who post about the symptoms of it on the internet, ….. but they (& I) don’t know what it is, & the docs don’t tell us. The docs can sell a lot of pharma drugs & do a lot of further damage, by not telling us about CHF. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

WHAT’S THIS GOT TO DO WITH BREAST CANCER I have breast cancer, J. You don’t. [...]…. then get lost, troll.

You got that part right, Susan. Burt’s a troll http://tinyurl.com/d6476 J

Response:

Why is medical care so danged lacking? Partly because doctors are humans, not gods (whatever some surgeons might think), and partly because medical science does not have an answer to every human ailment.  If you see the object of medicine as being to keep you alive, then it has a guaranteed 100% failure rate.

What’s more, if a patient doesn’t trust the available medical care there’s no point in taking advantage of it Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim Jackson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WHAT’S THIS GOT TO DO WITH BREAST CANCER I have breast cancer, J. You don’t. I had some bad experiences with the cancer treatments, & have many health problems, partly as a result of that. This is a place where women with breast cancer ask for advice & support, …. ask if someone’s had similar experiences & what they did about it. If you can’t handle the heat, & want to continue insulting women with cancer, & giving bad & harmful advice (as you’ve done to me in the past), ….. then get lost, troll. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Susan, I had three bouts of bronchitis with asthma while undergoing radiation, and after treatments ended.  My doctor said radiation weakens the immune system.  The last bout was in March, and I took Amoxicillin, but it did not clear up.  A doctor then gave me Z-Pack and an inhaler, and it cleared up in about a week.  I have been fine since then, but it took about 3 months to get over it.  Sometimes it takes several antibiotics to find the right one.  I hope this information will be helpful. Joan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I need to find some kind of medical care, that can help with this. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Su- please don’t take this as an insult but, IMO, you, like many of us, are a doctor’s worse nightmare.  Unfortunately, from my experience, they are able to treat it if they can see it on an xray or some test points it out to them but if what you have does not fit the normal pattern, they seem to have a tendency to just give drugs and fluff you off.   What you seem to need with all your problems is a good diagnostic team of doctors experienced in many fields who can check you out with all the medications you are taking and see if any of your other medical problems,  meds, or lifestyle are triggering off these new congestion problems you have.     Is there any hospital available in your area which does such diagnostic tests with a team of doctors?  That would be a lot easier on you than having to go from one to the other in your condition.   I know you love your dogs but have you told your doctors you are a caretaker of animals?  Could any of your congestion problems be caused by some allergy you have acquired due to the animals?  I know you might say, you had the dogs before you got this new congestion but maybe your system was not as weak as it is now and you were able to handle animals without a problem.    I would be sure to let them know about the dogs and what type they are.  This could take a lot of detective work on your part like checking out your living quarters and new foods you may be eating.  The doctors won’t do this for you.  You need to feed them the helpful information they need so they can try to figure out what the cause is.   Doctors just don’t seem to have the time any more to be diagnosticians.     Just my opinion and I do hope you can find the help you need soon. Bea

Response:

When the doc listens to my lungs, he says "wheezing".

That would indicate bronchospasm.  The smallest of airways in the bronchial tree have muscles around them that can decrease the size.  That usually maes it harder to get air out than toget it in, and you hear a high-pitched sound as the air gets out through the narower space. When I try to lie down for a while, there are weird sounds in my chest, like rattling, gurgling, whimpering(?), as I struggle very hard to breathe.

Those noises indicate mucous and/or pus accumulating in the airways.  The combination of inflammation of the airways (bronchitis) and wheezing is called asthmatic bronchitis.  Unlike simple asthma (which is not so simple), this is thought to depend on chemicals made by microorganisms in the lung, not external allergens (e.g., pollen) or irritants (e.g., a variety of industrial chemicals). I need to find some kind of medical care, that can help with this.

There are a number of medicines that can be used in combination.  It is expensive, of course. Antibiotics intermittently will help control infection when it flares up. Short-acting adrenalin-like drugs, such as albuterol, may relieve the spasm for a while. Corticosteroids (cortisone-like drugs) will decrease the inflammation that results.  Because this group of drugs has some potent undesireable side effects, it is best when possible to take them as an inhaled dose rather than as pills.  That delivers a higher concentration of the medicine to the lungs without overdosing the rest of the body.  Sometimes, however, oral medicines like prednisone are needed in the therapeutic mix.  These are slow to help with an attack and must therefore be taken on a regular basis to prevent attacks. Leukotriene inhibitors like Singulair and Accolate (zaphirlukast and montelukast in some order) may help decrease the frequency and/or severity of attacks. Long-acting adrenalin-like drugs are also available as inhalers.  These prevent, rather than break attacks.  A combination of a corticosteroid and long-acting adrenergic drug is sold under the brand namne Advair, and is an excellent drug. A drug called cromolyn sodium prevents certain white cells from releasing histamine, and is a preventive medicine.  It works well, but will not usually solve the problem byu itself. More or less the sme types drugs are availabe for nasal allergies.  In addition, antihistamines often help that a lot.  There is even a nasal spray, Astelin, that is an antihistamine. Of course, if you have known allergies, you should try to avoid them.  Bare floors and no pets are good ways to start.  If there are tasks, like perhaps vacuuming or lawn mowing, wearing a mask may help.  A gauze mask is not a very effective filter, but the paper masks used in surgery and sold in lumber ards will often help prevent problems if worn during the tasks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

Chronic Sinus Infection and/or Bronchitis, which infects & re-infects lungs, stomach, etc.? Recently, I’ve had extreme difficulties breathing, & can barely stand, walk or move around now. For many months, the docs have tried one antibiotic after another, so far without good results. The last try was also with cortisone. Thursday, I learned about (not from the doc), asked for & got a nebulizer (?) machine to use at home, ….. but I’m going to need much more than that! In Jan 1998, I was severely injured (head to toe, esp. spine, …. from hitting pavement & sliding in a fall, due to ongoing unsafe conditions at a shopping mall), which started constant drainage. This resulted in chronic acute bronchitis. In Oct. 2000, I survived an assault at the local ETMC ER, which resulted in dislocated C1 disc with brain collapsing on it. This increased the drainage. In 2002, I went through chemo & rads for cancer, & the Arimidex, which can damage stuff. I’ve read about & tried everything I can, to try to help control the drainage some & the negative effects of it, so I can to keep going, …. but my air is now cut off. Even using the nebulizer, I get short gasps, which get less & less. Monday, I’m going to ask the docs if there is a suction machine for the congestion. Or any other machines that might help. I’m going to ask for another heart test to check for damage from the cancer treatments. I’m going to ask for a scooter to get around until things get better. I have dogs to feed & care for, as well as myself, …. lawsuits to bring, …. & a very predatory & sadistic birth-family to fight off & back, each time they attack. I can’t afford to be this sick & weak. What should I ask the docs? Why is this happening? What’s wrong? Why the congestion, pressure, shortness of breath? Why can’t I breathe? [Why don't the docs have a clue what's wrong?!] Why do they just prescribe antibiotics which don’t work, as my condition has obviously gotten extremely bad, critical. Why are the docs so danged slow, & so reluctant to offer explanations or options, when they can see there’s something seriously wrong, a life & death type situation? Why?! Why is medical care so danged lacking? Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

When the doc listens to my lungs, he says "wheezing". When I try to lie down for a while, there are weird sounds in my chest, like rattling, gurgling, whimpering(?), as I struggle very hard to breathe. I need to find some kind of medical care, that can help with this. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

WHAT’S THIS GOT TO DO WITH BREAST CANCER

Response:

Chronic Sinus Infection and/or Bronchitis, which infects & re-infects lungs, stomach, etc.?

I just heard a story about someone who thought they had a chronic sinus infection but it turned out to be a malignant tumor which was inoperable because it was so close to the optic nerve.  I think they said it was being treated with radiation.  Unfortunately I can’t remember any other details. Eva

Response:

WHAT’S THIS GOT TO DO WITH BREAST CANCER I have breast cancer, J. You don’t. I had some bad experiences with the cancer treatments, & have many health problems, partly as a result of that. This is a place where women with breast cancer ask for advice & support, …. ask if someone’s had similar experiences & what they did about it. If you can’t handle the heat, & want to continue insulting women with cancer, & giving bad & harmful advice (as you’ve done to me in the past), ….. then get lost, troll. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Response:

I can’t afford to be this sick & weak.

Disease has no respect for circumstances, indeed it tends to exploit the weak and injured and old.  The poor get sick a whole lot more than the rich.  It doesn’t care what you can afford. What should I ask the docs? Why is this happening? What’s wrong? Why the congestion, pressure, shortness of breath? Why can’t I breathe? [Why don't the docs have a clue what's wrong?!] Why do they just prescribe antibiotics which don’t work, as my condition has obviously gotten extremely bad, critical.

What else can they do by way of a cure?  If it isn’t a bacterial infection, what is it?  If it is a bacterial infection then they have to try to find an antibiotic that works against it.  Unfortunately a lot of infections are resistant against common antibiotics, simply because they are that, common, and we tend to overuse them.  So they have to keep trying different ones. The only other things they can do are basically palliative, they could give you oxygen if your breathing is so badly compromised that it is life threatening.  They could try steroids to reduce the inflammation in the short term.  I don’t know, I’m not a doctor and I only know about cancer. Why are the docs so danged slow, & so reluctant to offer explanations or options, when they can see there’s something seriously wrong, a life & death type situation? Why?!

I guess they don’t know what is going on.  A bunch of symptoms doesn’t always lead to an obvious diagnosis, especially when the situation is complicated by co-morbidities, i.e. more than one problem at a time. Usually the diagnostic process consists of making a guess and trying a treatment, then revising the diagnosis in the light of response (or lack of) to treatment. Why is medical care so danged lacking?

Partly because doctors are humans, not gods (whatever some surgeons might think), and partly because medical science does not have an answer to every human ailment.  If you see the object of medicine as being to keep you alive, then it has a guaranteed 100% failure rate. Tim Jackson

Response:

Question:

Is it possible to minimze the chances for a need to switch meds? What I am wonde

snip yes 2. So if a med doesn’t work for you, how do you know if you should increase after a period of 6-8 weeks if the med shows little benefit after you come close to or arrive at the average target dose, you move on LM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings all, Two dum question: 1) Is it possible to minimze the chances for a need to switch meds? What I am wondering here is, can a good pdoc, after talking to you sufficiently long to know your problems, make a good educated suggestion which SSRI is best for you? In other words, are the choices between paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. completely based on trial and error, or are there guidelines that a good pdoc can use to decide which one is most likely to be the best for you? I’ve noticed that some doctors recommend paxil, some zoloft and others effexor; all for the same person with same sysmptoms. Is it because some know which is best chance of working for you, or is it just a matter of choice? 2) So if a med doesn’t work for you, how do you know if you should increase the dosage or if you should switch to a new med?? Thanks.

Is it not true that the SRIs and SSRIs have been proven no more effective than TCAs? I believe this is the case. If so, wouldn’t it make more sense to start with a TCA since their side-effect and long term effect profiles are much better understood than those of the SRIs and SSRIs?    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

Greetings all, Two dum question: 1) Is it possible to minimze the chances for a need to switch meds? What I am wondering here is, can a good pdoc, after talking to you sufficiently long to know your problems, make a good educated suggestion which SSRI is best for you? In other words, are the choices between paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. completely based on trial and error, or are there guidelines that a good pdoc can use to decide which one is most likely to be the best for you?

Well, I disagree with most of the posters.  Individual reactions are just about impossible to predict.  A good pdoc will start you on the one most recommended for your symptoms, taking into consideration physical problems that some drugs can aggravate (blood pressure for Effexor, liver damage for Serzone).  He will then monitor the alleviation of symptoms vs. tolerability of side effects. In other words, the answer is a VERY qualified yes. I’ve noticed that some doctors recommend paxil, some zoloft and others effexor; all for the same person with same sysmptoms. Is it because some know which is best chance of working for you, or is it just a matter of choice? 2) So if a med doesn’t work for you, how do you know if you should increase the dosage or if you should switch to a new med??

Again your doctor should be able to help with this.  Largely the decision depends on side effects, i.e. if your side effects are difficult to tolerate, raising the dosage is not likely to provide a long-term solution! — Mason Barge "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."         — Abraham Lincoln

Response:

Are you saying that Effexor is more effective for depression than zoloft or paxil,

effexor mimics tricyclic medications in its actions but uses a different mechanism to acheive it that initially was purported to have fewer side effects-it just has different ones-it is useful when more selective meds like ssri’s fail to work -using it instead of a tca has some advantages in certain medical and psychological profiles-neither are better-both have specific characteristics that may hold better therapeutic value to different people. all are effective for depression, all theoretically are equally effective for anxiety-but theory and practice may be at odds Which one in your judgement has the least side effects?

currently they all have similar side effect profiles that can be remediated by using very low doses to start and being patient enough to increase them painfully slowly. Each person has their own level of  toleration of the side effects of any of them. Some meds have greater potency at the synapse and each has its own slightly different molecular stimulating characteristics  so for one person zoloft may be sedating and for another it may be stimulating-we use general characteristics to anticipate the results of each med. If benzos are used along with the ad med-one is more comfortable. LM

Response:

Hi Chip, Are you saying that Effexor is more effective for depression than zoloft or paxil, but they are all equallty effective for anxiety? Which one in your judgement has the least side effects? Cheers Rsina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe so. I would select one with the least side effects since they (SSRIs) are all equally effective (as a group, although one might prove to be more effective for one person in particular). Or, if a person has used one SSRI in the past with good results, I would probably select that one. If he/she was depressed in addition to anxiety, I would use Effexor since that tends to be more effective for depression and equally effective for anxiety as the SSRIs.

Response:

Hi Chip, Are you saying that Effexor is more effective for depression than zoloft or paxil, but they are all equallty effective for anxiety?

Yes. Which one in your judgement has the least side effects?

That’s a tough one. Celexa is promoted as having fewer side effects, and some people on ASAP have said that has been their experience. Zoloft seems to be well tolerated. Paxil seems to make people fatigued and sleepy during the day. Prozac is too stimulating and this results in increased anxiety and insomnia. Plus Prozac has such a long half life if you needed to discontinue it because of an adverse reaction it would be around in your system for a few weeks. Plus Prozac tends to interfer with the metabolism of other meds more than the other SSRIs. Luvox seems to be very sedating. I’d be inclined to put patients on Celexa or Zoloft instead of the other SSRIs. Although I’m certain many people are on any of these SSRIs and are experiencing good results. Cheers Rsina

Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe so. I would select one with the least side effects since they (SSRIs) are all equally effective (as a group, although one might prove to be more effective for one person in particular). Or, if a person has used one SSRI in the past with good results, I would probably select that one. If he/she was depressed in addition to anxiety, I would use Effexor since that tends to be more effective for depression and equally effective for anxiety as the SSRIs.

Response:

Greetings all, Two dum question: 1) Is it possible to minimze the chances for a need to switch meds? What I am wondering here is, can a good pdoc, after talking to you sufficiently long to know your problems, make a good educated suggestion which SSRI is best for you? In other words, are the choices between paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. completely based on trial and error, or are there guidelines that a good pdoc can use to decide which one is most likely to be the best for you? I’ve noticed that some doctors recommend paxil, some zoloft and others effexor; all for the same person with same sysmptoms. Is it because some know which is best chance of working for you, or is it just a matter of choice? 2) So if a med doesn’t work for you, how do you know if you should increase the dosage or if you should switch to a new med?? Thanks.

Response:

Greetings all, Two dum question: 1) Is it possible to minimze the chances for a need to switch meds?

Yes. What I am wondering here is, can a good pdoc, after talking to you sufficiently long to know your problems, make a good educated suggestion which SSRI is best for you?

I believe so. I would select one with the least side effects since they (SSRIs) are all equally effective (as a group, although one might prove to be more effective for one person in particular). Or, if a person has used one SSRI in the past with good results, I would probably select that one. If he/she was depressed in addition to anxiety, I would use Effexor since that tends to be more effective for depression and equally effective for anxiety as the SSRIs. In other words, are the choices between paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. completely based on trial and error, or are there guidelines that a good pdoc can use to decide which one is most likely to be the best for you? I’ve noticed that some doctors recommend paxil, some zoloft and others effexor; all for the same person with same sysmptoms. Is it because some know which is best chance of working for you, or is it just a matter of choice?

All for the same person? Or all for different persons with the same symptoms? Docs tend to prescribe meds they have prescribed before and are comfortable with. 2) So if a med doesn’t work for you, how do you know if you should increase the dosage or if you should switch to a new med??

If I got *any* response to the med, I would tend to increase the dose. If after several increases there is no response, I’d try a different med. Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone heard of Zoloft withdrawal lasting longer than a couple of weeks? I was taking 200 to 250 mg Zoloft daily (increased during PMS) and then switched to Celexa. I was frustrated with neither of them helping my depression, so I unwisely abruptly discontinued the medication. My withdrawal symptoms ranged from moderate to severe…initially, I experienced extreme agitation, anxiety, crying, uncharacteristic rage, and formication (sensation that bugs were crawling on me). With the help of my doctor, I restarted a low dose of Celexa (I had been on 20 mg prior to this) and tapered off–but still quicker than I should have because I’m stubborn. The main problems that persisted for a couple of weeks were numbness and tingling in my arms and legs, and then spontaneous pain or muscle spasms in my legs. (Pretty darn painful). That and gastro-intestinal distress. My doctor felt that most of this was actually withdrawal from the Zoloft, not Celexa. She felt that the Celexa had prevented me from going into Zoloft withdrawal, but when I discontinued Celexa, the Zoloft withdrawal kicked in. From what I’ve read about other people’s experiences with Zoloft withdrawal, my symptoms do appear to match theirs. I had been taking Zoloft (at different doses) for about 4 years. I tried other medications during that time, but I was unable to tolerate most of them. I am very sensitive to medications and tend to have side effects with just about everything I take, usually to the point where I don’t want to take anything. Back to the symptoms–after 2-1/2 weeks, these symptoms diminished. 3-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation, however, I had a flare-up of gastro-intenstinal distress that lasted a day or two. Then, 4-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation (maybe 2 weeks since stopping the mild tapering-off) I experienced the leg pain, numbness, tingling along with severe stomach cramps and such. I did not expect to still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, so I’m confused. Am I imagining things? Is this something else? Thank you for any help you can provide.

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Question:

Wait and take the next one when you are suppose. If you missed one dosage it won’t hurt you. You may want to get a pill box and then if you think you have missed a dosage you can look and tell if it missing. Hope your day goes well. K. HAVE A WONDERFULLY FUN FILLED DAY!!!!

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I usually cant remember whether I took my meds or not so I went out and bought one of those cute pill reminder box. Mine is plastic and about 4 in. long and a thumbnail wide.It has 7 little compartments with each one having a snap top and the letter of the week on top. They come in many sizes depending on how many pills a day you have to take. I fill mine once a week. If I am about to run out of a med I see it coming a week in advance. Also if you suffer from OCD it really helps you KNOW that you took that pill, so you wont obsess on that. Or if you just have 10 million things on your plate and cant remeber much of anything anymore, lol, it helps. Chow love Brenda

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to respond to this having made this mistake myself not long ago. DO NOT take the extra dose!!! I did that and overdosed myself. You will be better off waiting until your next scheduled dose and just going from there. Your body will not miss the zoloft if you’ve been on it awhile. Just don’t make a habit of it, ok? Mary That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious)

Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

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I’d quote but the beginning of this thread is gone (yes I’m on AOL)… If it helps you any, try putting your morning meds (for me it’s an SSRI and a hormone) in a container (I use the top of the Nyquil bottle…hey it’s free) and keep that by the bed. Make it a practice to leave your BOTTLE in the living room and only put your morning meds in there before you go to bed (like a routine). I’ve found I can get them in my system faster, which helps me get to sleep earlier that night, in case I just wake up early, take the meds and feel like going back to sleep instead of getting up completely. Keep a small glass of water and the cup and turn the med cup upside down when you’ve taken them. Sometimes my OCD comes in handy  This method sure beats looking at the label and counting and subtracting, blah blah….BTDT and found this helps. All the best. Miriam

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i use a pill box to keep meds straight.before i go to bed i put the next day meds in the pill box,also my husband takes heart meds.he keeps them in a box.when he takes one he turns the bottle up side down.no more guessing or mistakes .let me share something else with you.at times it is hard to swoller pills.use a straw taking pills .you can’t believe how much easier it is. hope some of this helps. good luck. fanny

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious) Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary

I thought it would be somewhat like this. Overdosing on a TCA is worse…. I think in 31 years I have missed a dose twice…and the *idea* brings on panic with me (with a benzo it’s different, I notice that very soon and that’s not just psychological). Many  people need pill organizers or a similar system. We may well all  have Alzheimer’s at ASAP, if that would be the criterion ) Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

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Chuck, I’m one day late on this question, but I’ll give you some advice for the future. Keep a record of whenever you take meds. I have a calender next to my pill bottles and indicate whenever I have taken a med. I started doing this because sometimes I forget what I’ve taken, especially if it’s first thing in the morning and I’m still half asleep. I do lots of crazy stuff in the morning, like making coffee without adding the water. Or putting my shirt on backwards. Or missing the toilet when I pee. In fact, sometimes I sit down to pee. (that way there’s a better chance of hitting the target) One lady at ASAP said she didn’t know why her husband sat down in the AM to pee. She thought he was doing strange things. I didn’t say anything at the time, to keep her in suspence I suppose, or maybe just to keep her on her toes. Chip p.s. missing one day of Zoloft won’t hurt. To all –

Question:

Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks… — I can’t think of a single movie that couldn’t be improved by a lesbian sex scene.

Response:

Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks…

When I was taking 300 mg Effexor and 150 mg Wellbutrin, I had to take Klonopin quite often.  I just got so tense and anxious and sometimes I was really irritable or angry.  Lots of Klonopin helped.  I’m not on the Wellbutrin anymore, and I haven’t had to take the Klonopin recently either. No, you’re not alone. Deb

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks… When I was taking 300 mg Effexor and 150 mg Wellbutrin, I had to take Klonopin quite often.  I just got so tense and anxious and sometimes I was really irritable or angry.  Lots of Klonopin helped.  I’m not on the Wellbutrin anymore, and I haven’t had to take the Klonopin recently either. No, you’re not alone. Deb

I just don’t like benzo’s.  I want to take the whole bottle sometimes. I like the tense and anxious feeling better.  I really do. — I can’t think of a single movie that couldn’t be improved by a lesbian sex scene.

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Question:

Ditto to everything Chip and Randee posted.  There is absolutely no evidence to support that any SSRI causes permanent brain damage….in rats or in humans….and they sliced up a lot of rodents to find this out.  SPECT and MRI scans indicate the same for humans….and I’m sure that over the next decade, posthumous studies will produce the same results.  What you should know is that the average age of onset for most Axis I diagnoses is 18-25. More than likely your continued problems are as Philip described synchronous rather than caused by the meds.  We have all been angry about the seeming failure of our body chemistry as expressed by psych symptoms.  However, blaming it on the meds, is a cop-out of taking responsibility for making yourself well…..and posting such accusations here causes a lot of unnecessary worry by people who need their energies to focus on REAL problems.  Get some counseling.   ~Valerie

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I take zoloft and I was crazy before I took it. Panic and the constant thought pattern ruined my life. Zoloft has really helped me. Yes, I had some side effects but nothing like I had on other meds. I will not say neg on xanex but I am sure long term use may also cause you to go crazy. I also have psoriasis and this is not caused by zoloft. Got that before the zoloft or panic. Read up on psoriasis.Psoriasis may aggrivate the zoloft. Some meds do. Good luck on your research but remember many of us need this medication and unless you are 100% sure of what you have found I would be careful before you scare to many people. Joan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

I’d say it’s doubtful that your complaints are the result of having taken Zoloft. There seems to be a *synchronicity* here but not necessarily a *causal* relationship. It might be the original anxiety for all I know (or can conclude from the sparse data you provided). Does Xanax work for these symptoms as you say that you’re taking it? If it works (at what dose?) it’s obviously a better med for you than Zoloft was. Some of us (including me) will have to be on meds for the rest of our lives. I’d rather not be on meds but it’s the only way for me to have a life. You may be just like me… Philip

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    ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does..

 Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

Mike you can spend the rest of your life trying to figure out why you have this disorder. I seriously doubt that Zoloft is the cause. You were put on Zoloft for a reason, what was that reason? Depression and anxiety are closely related. My disorder started when I was 18, one day I was fine and the next day I was different. Mike you can try to find the reason for your disorder, and try to place blame. You are going to make yourself nuts trying to find the cause. Even if you do find the cause, it won`t help you much. Unless you accept your disorder and own it, you are not going to move on and get better. There are many people that have never been on anti-depressants, that have depression, anxiety, panic, social phobia and psoriasis. How do you explain that Mike? Take all this energy that you are using to blame Zoloft into getting better instead. Jackie

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Would it be safe to say…that Zoloft is a powerful drug?For me the answer is YES. Did Zoloft increase my Anxiety?…yes for me it did! The first month or so were the weirdest (kind of a slight mania….depersonalization ) it pretty much went away.(.except for Anxiety) the longer I stayed on it! I can see how it can help people, I think it helped me with a uplifting state of mind; but it didn’t seem to be worth the price of continuing if I still had to deal Tension and Anxiety. I have discontinued Zoloft for about 2 weeks and I can’t tell much difference; except I can tell I’m not quite as know) I wanted them all to work wonders for me…but they created there own little draw-backs. I’ve given Zoloft 2 trys. I can see why somebody posted about the effects of this drug…I’ve read many places and from ASAP posters on the things I went through…I know that I’m not alone. BUT I know this drug has worked wonders for many other people. Anyway just sharing…not an expert(Obviously) Oh by the way if anybody can offer me a better alternative drug….I’m all EARS! Thanks Much       Wild & Crazy                                                            P.S. my other 2 drugs are Trazodone and Zanax( I really like the Zanax!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage. My wife has been on Imiprimine, Luvox, and Zoloft.  The imiprimine helped her depression but the side effects were almost bad enough that the depression was better.  The Luvox had very mild side effects, but it didn’t do much for her depression.  Zoloft has been effective with her depression and with very mild side effects.  I see no evidence of brain dammage. I was on prozac (an SSRI, the same family as Zoloft) for 2 weeks.  It gave me tinnitus and halucinations.  I won’t take an SSRI again.  These are very rare side effects for Prozac, but I’m not the first to get them.  However, just because SSRIs are a bad choice for me, doesn’t mean that huge numbers of users haven’t been helped by them.  Xanax is what helps me, and I may have to take it the rest of my life, but there’s enough research to suggest that there’s a good chance that I won’t. If Zoloft really does cause brain dammage, I think it would of turned up prior to now.  I agree with the prior posts that say you have an anxiety/panc disorder that just happend to manifest itself after you went off the Zoloft. I would also say that you at least have a chance that it’s not permenant. Good Luck,  Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

My wife has been on Imiprimine, Luvox, and Zoloft.  The imiprimine helped her depression but the side effects were almost bad enough that the depression was better.  The Luvox had very mild side effects, but it didn’t do much for her depression.  Zoloft has been effective with her depression and with very mild side effects.  I see no evidence of brain dammage. I was on prozac (an SSRI, the same family as Zoloft) for 2 weeks.  It gave me tinnitus and halucinations.  I won’t take an SSRI again.  These are very rare side effects for Prozac, but I’m not the first to get them.  However, just because SSRIs are a bad choice for me, doesn’t mean that huge numbers of users haven’t been helped by them.  Xanax is what helps me, and I may have to take it the rest of my life, but there’s enough research to suggest that there’s a good chance that I won’t. If Zoloft really does cause brain dammage, I think it would of turned up prior to now.  I agree with the prior posts that say you have an anxiety/panc disorder that just happend to manifest itself after you went off the Zoloft. I would also say that you at least have a chance that it’s not permenant. Good Luck,   Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..  When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

You may be confusing cause and effect here. There are many people on this NG who take or have taken Zoloft as well as many other AD’s. The symptoms that you describe could mean that you are still have problems with depression. I’m not saying outright that you are wrong, however, there is no current evidence to support your claim, either from the med reaearch or, more importantly, anecodotes posted to the NG’s. Is it possible than somehow in your mind that it might be easier to believe your symptoms were induced by your use of Zoloft than to acknowledge that you have an ongoing problem with Panic and/or depression? Keep us up to date if you find any research on the topic. Regards, JaneB

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   These kind of messages really make me mad.Keep your opinions to yourself. Its not enough that I have to take this but then there are people like you who have to make it worse for me.Zoloft is really helping me and I definatly have no brain damage and i’m not depressed.So when you have real proof then post it!!!! Randee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

  I don’t know about this either…I have had fewer side-effects on Zoloft than I’ve had on any other med but aspirin and ibuprofen (no kidding)…Antibiotics give me flu-like symptoms, antihistimines knock me on my ass and cause dizziness…The list goes on…I have had almost NIL side-effects on Zoloft…Not only that, but like others have said, I was drained and sick WELL before I took Zoloft…If I still am when I get off, I can only assume I still need it, not that it caused it…   Finally, all the research I have read recently is starting to suggest just the opposite of what you say…That depression and anxiety (specifically cortisol and other hormones that are overstimulated in depressed and anxious folks) CAUSES brain damage…Long time depressives have smaller brains in some places  (I cannot remember the specific region at 12:20 PM! ) that control emotions…This seems to be reversible, but that is inconclusive…Also, research shows that taking medications and getting therapy immediately is the best way to prevent this effect and reduce or eliminate further epsiodes… Best, — Charles Phipps

Response:

I’d be interested in whatever you find out about zoloft. I have been on it since March 99. Only 50mg. Haven’t seen a lot of improvement, but I thought it was to treat depression. I went to the Pdoc complaining of anxiety,panic and lack of sleep. Although, he did give me xanax as well for that. You may be right in your claim about zoloft, but I have not heard this before about the medicine.

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Hi, New Jersey! Haven’t  I seen you before down on the boardwalk in Atlantic City , and over there at the Trump Plaza? You look familiar.  : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -New Jersey writes: I’m trying to get to the bottom of this. I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem.. When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis…. Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

NJ, I’ve been on Zoloft for the last 6 years, and so far, no brain damage, just less depression and anxiety. And I’ve been very pleased with this med. And I have never even heard that it causes brain damage. And untill someone shows me proof, I won’t believe it. Just because you met someone that claims his problems are due to brain damage caused by Zoloft doesn’t mean it’s true. It sounds like you were depressed enough at 18 to be treated with Zoloft. I don’t know how long you took it. It seems you now have anxieties, phobias, numbness on your face.  All of these are part of an anxiety disorder. Some, like you,  get depressed first, and later on get the anxiety symptoms. Others have the anxiety symptoms first and may get depressed later on. I had depression in my late teens, and onset of panic disorder  and phobias at age 22. And I had alot of strange feelings all over my body and thought I had disease. But I didn’t. It sounds like you have the same problems we  have here at ASAP. And they’re not due to brain damage from meds. So, are you ever going to go back down to Atlantic City, again?  : ) Take care, Chip

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    ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

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Question:

Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

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Took them all, but I don’t think it was ever in combination with each other. Like most of the meds I have taken, they worked for a while then ZIPPO. It appears that the Paxil, Buspar, Neurontin Combo I am now on has gone ZIPPO on me. When you feel better without meds than you do on meds, "Somethin’ is screwie in St. Louie!!"          Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

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What dose is the ritaalin for depression?

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Question:

Is it just me or is everyone experiencing massive weight gain whilst on Valproic Acid?  For those who did gain weight, was the amount small, or a lot? I’m really worried. I don’t like this side-effect… i really don’t like it and it’s scaring me. I really don’t want to gain any weight.  And why does one gain weight on this med (actually, most of these types of meds?)? Does it just mess up your metabolism or just make you hungrier, or both? The hungrier part I can handle..it’s the metabolism thing I can’t. Thanks. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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I’ve been on Depakote (same thing) and experienced weight gain.It helped with the mania but couldn’t keep depression under control with anti depressents. Taken off Depakote to have ECT. (Mary Jo Hendricks)

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Is it just me or is everyone experiencing massive weight gain whilst on Valproic Acid?  

It sounds like a lot of people gain weight, but it’s not universal.  I didn’t gain any weight.  Maybe it just seems like most people gain weight because they are the ones who complain about Valproic Acid. June "word I was in my life alone, word I had no one left but God."                                                   — Robert Frost

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Is it just me or is everyone experiencing massive weight gain whilst on Valproic Acid?  For those who did gain weight, was the amount small, or a lot? I’m really worried. I don’t like this side-effect… i really don’t like it and it’s scaring me. I really don’t want to gain any weight.  And why does one gain weight on this med (actually, most of these types of meds?)? Does it just mess up your metabolism or just make you hungrier, or both? The hungrier part I can handle..it’s the metabolism thing I can’t. Thanks.

I was supposed to go on depakote, but one of the things that bothered me was the weight gain.  I’m  all over it, spacegurl (is that a family name?).  I think it’s really important to consider these things.  I’ve had a weight probelm before and I’m definitely never going there again as long as I can help it. Although, like Alex said, in cases where you are eating wrong in response to bipolar symptoms, meds will make this easier probably.  Never had depakote, so I can’t speak from experience here.  I just wanted to let you know I kinda understnad your concerns and stuff.   -sophia

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<snipped I’m supposed to go back on Thursday and touch-base with him, which means I have to be taking my meds by then, but….I’m really worried. My philosophy is nothing ventured — nothing gained. Even if you do wind up in a closet sleeping with your dog!

At least you know your dog loves you. -sophia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks! Spacegurl Wishing you all the very best from, James — * Since I do not get a complete Newsfeed, I would appreciate receiving * * a copy of any responding posts. Please also indicate if you are      * * posting as well as emailing me. Thanks for helping me out!           *

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Well, day…..2 of taking this crap.  I’m at loose ends.  I’m feeling very tired all of a sudden, and more more angry.  My temper just seems to be out of of control.  Is this just maybe something coincidental or do many people experience this? I am going nuts.  i just sent a nasty hate-letter to one of my very best-friends, but i couldn’t help it.  I knew that I shouldn’t and I knew that deep down, it wasn’t him, but something in me just go so mad and I coudln’t help it. how long until this stuff works? when people gained the weight, how long until they noticed a difference?  I’m so serious about the weight thing. So serious, in fact, that if i do put on more than 5 pounds, i’m gonna go off of the meds. So far, no weight gain, but I can’t take this much more – waiting and drinking gallons of water (ok fine maybe not gallons) so that I don’t get hungry. what the hell?                                 S P A C E G U R L         "…TODAY I HATE EVERYONE…"  - Killjoys — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Spacegurl, I am taking depakote, and am having decent results. The potential for side effects are there though. I read the insert and it was not to good. However, hairloss and occasional weight gain is often the most common effect. Hope this helps, Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to everyone again. Well, after going thru Effexor withdrawl HELL (I don’t care what my doc said, it WAS withdrawl), my new(ish) pdoc has me on Valporic Acid. I have the prescription all filled and everything, but I’m hesitant to take it. I’m worried about the side-effects.  Is anyone else out there on this med? Can anyone give me feedback about their response to it and side-effects? I’m supposed to go back on Thursday and touch-base with him, which means I have to be taking my meds by then, but….i’m really worried. Thanks! Spacegurl — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: Hello to everyone again. Well, after going thru Effexor withdrawl HELL (I don’t care what my doc said, it WAS withdrawl), my new(ish) pdoc has me on Valporic Acid. I have the prescription all filled and everything, but I’m hesitant to take it. I’m worried about the side-effects.  Is anyone else out there on this med? Can anyone give me feedback about their response to it and side-effects? I’m supposed to go back on Thursday and touch-base with him, which means I have to be taking my meds by then, but….i’m really worried. Thanks! Spacegurl — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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<Posted and Mailed to Spacegurl Hello to everyone again. Well, after going thru Effexor withdrawal HELL (I don’t care what my doc said, it WAS withdrawal).

Absolutely! A person needs to be slowly weaned off of Effexor (as well as many other meds). My new(ish) pdoc has me on Valproic Acid. I have the prescription all filled and everything, but I’m hesitant to take it. I’m worried about the side-effects.  Is anyone else out there on this med?

It is the same as Depakote except that Depakote enters your system more slowly. That’s why most pdocs prefer Depakote. But Valproate is cheaper. If you experience an upset stomach, you may want to talk to your pdoc about an extended release formulation of Depakote. Can anyone give me feedback about their response to it and side-effects? I’m supposed to go back on Thursday and touch-base with him, which means I have to be taking my meds by then, but….I’m really worried.

My philosophy is nothing ventured — nothing gained. Even if you do wind up in a closet sleeping with your dog! Thanks! Spacegurl

Wishing you all the very best from, James — * Since I do not get a complete Newsfeed, I would appreciate receiving * * a copy of any responding posts. Please also indicate if you are      * * posting as well as emailing me. Thanks for helping me out!           *

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Hello to everyone again. Well, after going thru Effexor withdrawl HELL (I don’t care what my doc said, it WAS withdrawl), my new(ish) pdoc has me on Valporic Acid. I have the prescription all filled and everything, but I’m hesitant to take it. I’m worried about the side-effects.  Is anyone else out there on this med? Can anyone give me feedback about their response to it and side-effects? I’m supposed to go back on Thursday and touch-base with him, which means I have to be taking my meds by then, but….i’m really worried.   Thanks! Spacegurl — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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