Mart, I seem to recall that not long ago that there was some concern that you were planning on getting rid of yourself. So are you investigating self-destructive techniques like getting stabbed and smashed on the head with a bottle? 
Ha! There must be easier ways surely?!?
Yeah, but we’re not telling….. I would grab you be the ankles, turn you upside down and shake you until some common sense fell into your head, but I think Vanessa’s already done that, albeit much more gently and rationally. I prefer Vanessa`s gentle touch, but I can`t argue….you`re absoluetly right!
Well, being gentle isn’t one of the listed adverse side effects of Effexor : Anyway, I’m glad you’re recovering from this adventure of yours. DON’T DO IT AGAIN! Cheers. The fact that my survival instincts kicked in and gave me the strenght to run prove (maybe) that I DO want to live?!?
Yep, good message there. Your survival instinct does seem to be in pretty good shape. BTW, I liked your original subject heading that fear can be good for you. P.S. I tried to post a reply yesterday via xusenet, but that seems to be the only place it showed up. But maybe one of these days a duplicate message will show up. Feel free to ignore it. I only post on Google Groups these days and have no problem with it. Best wishes, Martin
I’m using Google now, but the problem I’ve got with it is that it runs behind my read-only newsserver. It’s frustrating to see a message in my newsreader and not be able to respond because it hasn’t hit Google yet. Once I get past some personal problems I’ll have to find a better way of doing this. Take care, Fig
Mart, I seem to recall that not long ago that there was some concern that you were planning on getting rid of yourself. So are you investigating self-destructive techniques like getting stabbed and smashed on the head with a bottle?
Ha! There must be easier ways surely?!? I would grab you be the ankles, turn you upside down and shake you until some common sense fell into your head, but I think Vanessa’s already done that, albeit much more gently and rationally.
I prefer Vanessa`s gentle touch, but I can`t argue….you`re absoluetly right! Anyway, I’m glad you’re recovering from this adventure of yours. DON’T DO IT AGAIN!
Cheers. The fact that my survival instincts kicked in and gave me the strenght to run prove (maybe) that I DO want to live?!? Take care, Figaro P.S. I tried to post a reply yesterday via xusenet, but that seems to be the only place it showed up. But maybe one of these days a duplicate message will show up. Feel free to ignore it.
I only post on Google Groups these days and have no problem with it. Best wishes, Martin
You sure don’t do things by halves! Welcome back and please allow yourself time to heal. love Meryl
Thanks to you too, Meryl. I`m healing nicely…just a matter of time to see how much the scars fade. Love Mart
Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I am!!
Mart, I seem to recall that not long ago that there was some concern that you were planning on getting rid of yourself. So are you investigating self-destructive techniques like getting stabbed and smashed on the head with a bottle? I would grab you be the ankles, turn you upside down and shake you until some common sense fell into your head, but I think Vanessa’s already done that, albeit much more gently and rationally. Anyway, I’m glad you’re recovering from this adventure of yours. DON’T DO IT AGAIN! Take care, Figaro P.S. I tried to post a reply yesterday via xusenet, but that seems to be the only place it showed up. But maybe one of these days a duplicate message will show up. Feel free to ignore it.
WOW… what an adventure you have been on!! No more playing "The Hulk" for you!! Make sure your stitch sites dont get infected…. I personally freak out over little things like that. Take care and stay the HELL out of the park at night Stacy
My stitches are out and the main wound (the arm one) is healing nicely. I learnt my lesson that I`m no superhero! It`s just you don`t expect 13-15 year old kids to carry bottles and knives (well not when I was that age). It`s amazing I had the strength to run, really. It could`ve been a lot worse if I had gone down. We live and learn! Mart 
Wow, Mart, you have been through it! Glad to see you back. Leave those young punks alone next time!! Glad you are ok! Vicki
Many thanks Vicki. I think I`ll leave the heroics to the movies from now on! Love, Mart
Hope the stitches heal soon. Hope the pain is not too bad and that you are fit and healthy real soon. How is your anxiety these days? Vanessa
I know all the other stuff you said was right. I must have been told it a thousand times now but I know it`s only coz you (and my family/friends etc.) care! I`m not in pain now and the scar on my head is barely visible. My arm doesn`t ache anymore but the scar is still quite red. It definately has shortened though – maybe this is part of the healing process – and all the bruising has gone. It looks a hell of a lot better than it did! My anxiety is pretty much the same, though I`m trying out some meditation tapes….so we`ll see how that goes. Thanks for you concern. Love, Martin
You sure don’t do things by halves! Welcome back and please allow yourself time to heal. love Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I am!! So what`s been happening while I`ve been away? I`ve had a few minor problems since I was last here. Namely being bottled on the head and stabbed! It was partly my own fault…some youths offered me into a park for a fight…I`d had a few beers and thought I could take them on. Initially they ran away when I charged at them (it, as it turns out, is a gang well known to the local police). They were only 13-15 year-olds, but one of them hit me on the head with a bottle (from behind). I shouted, "come on, at least attack me from the front" then looked down to see my body streaming with blood (it was a hot night and I had my T-shirt tied round my waist). I had bent double from the force of the blow but had not hit the ground….but the sight of blood made me sober-up very quickly and I ran! Not long after (I was gonna walk home) a police van pulled up and I told them what had happened. One said, "By the way, you`ve also been stabbed!" I didn`t even know! I suppose the mixture of booze, adrenalin and the smash on my head had masked the pain. The back of my right arm had been slashed. An ambulance arrived and I was taken to hospital where I had a special glue for the head wound and 10 stitches in my arm. I`ve had them out now, but I`ll be scarred for life in both places. I blame Xanax in a way, because I`d had a few pills as well as the drink and it made me TOO confident. There were about 10 of them but I had no fear, and I`ve now realised how fear can actually help you. I thought they`d just stitch me up and I`d be able to carry on as normal. Not true. My arm has been aching so much…I went back to work with the stitches in, for 2 weeks. Then I woke up one morning and couldn`t move my arm. The doctor said I`d gone back to work too soon and signed me off for a week. I`m OK now though, which is why I`ve had the strength (typing-wise) to come on here and post such a long message to you guys. It`s not like me to ramble on but I thought I should tell you lot why I`ve been off here for ages. I`ll post this message on ASAPM so forgive me if you see it twice. I know I`ve been foolish but all posts of comfort will be gratefully received!!!! Love, Martin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I am!! So what`s been happening while I`ve been away? I`ve had a few minor problems since I was last here. Namely being bottled on the head and stabbed! It was partly my own fault…some youths offered me into a park for a fight…I`d had a few beers and thought I could take them on. Initially they ran away when I charged at them (it, as it turns out, is a gang well known to the local police). They were only 13-15 year-olds, but one of them hit me on the head with a bottle (from behind). I shouted, "come on, at least attack me from the front" then looked down to see my body streaming with blood (it was a hot night and I had my T-shirt tied round my waist). I had bent double from the force of the blow but had not hit the ground….but the sight of blood made me sober-up very quickly and I ran! Not long after (I was gonna walk home) a police van pulled up and I told them what had happened. One said, "By the way, you`ve also been stabbed!" I didn`t even know! I suppose the mixture of booze, adrenalin and the smash on my head had masked the pain. The back of my right arm had been slashed. An ambulance arrived and I was taken to hospital where I had a special glue for the head wound and 10 stitches in my arm. I`ve had them out now, but I`ll be scarred for life in both places. I blame Xanax in a way, because I`d had a few pills as well as the drink and it made me TOO confident. There were about 10 of them but I had no fear, and I`ve now realised how fear can actually help you. I thought they`d just stitch me up and I`d be able to carry on as normal. Not true. My arm has been aching so much…I went back to work with the stitches in, for 2 weeks. Then I woke up one morning and couldn`t move my arm. The doctor said I`d gone back to work too soon and signed me off for a week. I`m OK now though, which is why I`ve had the strength (typing-wise) to come on here and post such a long message to you guys. It`s not like me to ramble on but I thought I should tell you lot why I`ve been off here for ages. I`ll post this message on ASAPM so forgive me if you see it twice. I know I`ve been foolish but all posts of comfort will be gratefully received!!!!
Helloooooo Mart How scary. Glad you are ok and hugs for a speedy recovery. What I’m about to say is going to sound like a bit of a lecture but it’s because I care that I am writing it. I hope you will take it in the spirit it is intended Yes you were foolish and glad that you realised this my friend. IMO it wasn’t the Xanax at fault it was the mixing of the alcohol with it. And as you found out it numbed your reflexes and your thinking to the point where you did not sense the fear or the danger you put yourself in. Please take care with self-medicating with alcohol Mart – it is not only about impairing your judgement but it can make your meds less effective not to mention what it can do to your long term health. Hope the stitches heal soon. Hope the pain is not too bad and that you are fit and healthy real soon. How is your anxiety these days? Vanessa
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I am!! So what`s been happening while I`ve been away? I`ve had a few minor problems since I was last here. Namely being bottled on the head and stabbed! It was partly my own fault…some youths offered me into a park for a fight…I`d had a few beers and thought I could take them on. Initially they ran away when I charged at them (it, as it turns out, is a gang well known to the local police). They were only 13-15 year-olds, but one of them hit me on the head with a bottle (from behind). I shouted, "come on, at least attack me from the front" then looked down to see my body streaming with blood (it was a hot night and I had my T-shirt tied round my waist). I had bent double from the force of the blow but had not hit the ground….but the sight of blood made me sober-up very quickly and I ran! Not long after (I was gonna walk home) a police van pulled up and I told them what had happened. One said, "By the way, you`ve also been stabbed!" I didn`t even know! I suppose the mixture of booze, adrenalin and the smash on my head had masked the pain. The back of my right arm had been slashed. An ambulance arrived and I was taken to hospital where I had a special glue for the head wound and 10 stitches in my arm. I`ve had them out now, but I`ll be scarred for life in both places. I blame Xanax in a way, because I`d had a few pills as well as the drink and it made me TOO confident. There were about 10 of them but I had no fear, and I`ve now realised how fear can actually help you. I thought they`d just stitch me up and I`d be able to carry on as normal. Not true. My arm has been aching so much…I went back to work with the stitches in, for 2 weeks. Then I woke up one morning and couldn`t move my arm. The doctor said I`d gone back to work too soon and signed me off for a week. I`m OK now though, which is why I`ve had the strength (typing-wise) to come on here and post such a long message to you guys. It`s not like me to ramble on but I thought I should tell you lot why I`ve been off here for ages. I`ll post this message on ASAPM so forgive me if you see it twice. I know I`ve been foolish but all posts of comfort will be gratefully received!!!! Love, Martin
Wow, Mart, you have been through it! Glad to see you back. Leave those young punks alone next time!! Glad you are ok! Vicki
| Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I | am!! | | So what`s been happening while I`ve been away? | | I`ve had a few minor problems since I was last here. Namely being | bottled on the head and stabbed! It was partly my own fault…some | youths offered me into a park for a fight…I`d had a few beers and | thought I could take them on. Initially they ran away when I charged | at them (it, as it turns out, is a gang well known to the local | police). They were only 13-15 year-olds, but one of them hit me on the | head with a bottle (from behind). I shouted, "come on, at least attack | me from the front" then looked down to see my body streaming with | blood (it was a hot night and I had my T-shirt tied round my waist). I | had bent double from the force of the blow but had not hit the | ground….but the sight of blood made me sober-up very quickly and I | ran! | | Not long after (I was gonna walk home) a police van pulled up and I | told them what had happened. One said, "By the way, you`ve also been | stabbed!" I didn`t even know! I suppose the mixture of booze, | adrenalin and the smash on my head had masked the pain. The back of my | right arm had been slashed. | | An ambulance arrived and I was taken to hospital where I had a special | glue for the head wound and 10 stitches in my arm. I`ve had them out | now, but I`ll be scarred for life in both places. I blame Xanax in a | way, because I`d had a few pills as well as the drink and it made me | TOO confident. There were about 10 of them but I had no fear, and I`ve | now realised how fear can actually help you. | | I thought they`d just stitch me up and I`d be able to carry on as | normal. Not true. My arm has been aching so much…I went back to work | with the stitches in, for 2 weeks. Then I woke up one morning and | couldn`t move my arm. The doctor said I`d gone back to work too soon | and signed me off for a week. | | I`m OK now though, which is why I`ve had the strength (typing-wise) to | come on here and post such a long message to you guys. It`s not like | me to ramble on but I thought I should tell you lot why I`ve been off | here for ages. | | I`ll post this message on ASAPM so forgive me if you see it twice. I | know I`ve been foolish but all posts of comfort will be gratefully | received!!!! | | Love, | Martin WOW… what an adventure you have been on!! No more playing "The Hulk" for you!! Make sure your stitch sites dont get infected…. I personally freak out over little things like that. Take care and stay the HELL out of the park at night Stacy
Yes, I`m back again. You thought you could get rid of me but here I am!! So what`s been happening while I`ve been away? I`ve had a few minor problems since I was last here. Namely being bottled on the head and stabbed! It was partly my own fault…some youths offered me into a park for a fight…I`d had a few beers and thought I could take them on. Initially they ran away when I charged at them (it, as it turns out, is a gang well known to the local police). They were only 13-15 year-olds, but one of them hit me on the head with a bottle (from behind). I shouted, "come on, at least attack me from the front" then looked down to see my body streaming with blood (it was a hot night and I had my T-shirt tied round my waist). I had bent double from the force of the blow but had not hit the ground….but the sight of blood made me sober-up very quickly and I ran! Not long after (I was gonna walk home) a police van pulled up and I told them what had happened. One said, "By the way, you`ve also been stabbed!" I didn`t even know! I suppose the mixture of booze, adrenalin and the smash on my head had masked the pain. The back of my right arm had been slashed. An ambulance arrived and I was taken to hospital where I had a special glue for the head wound and 10 stitches in my arm. I`ve had them out now, but I`ll be scarred for life in both places. I blame Xanax in a way, because I`d had a few pills as well as the drink and it made me TOO confident. There were about 10 of them but I had no fear, and I`ve now realised how fear can actually help you. I thought they`d just stitch me up and I`d be able to carry on as normal. Not true. My arm has been aching so much…I went back to work with the stitches in, for 2 weeks. Then I woke up one morning and couldn`t move my arm. The doctor said I`d gone back to work too soon and signed me off for a week. I`m OK now though, which is why I`ve had the strength (typing-wise) to come on here and post such a long message to you guys. It`s not like me to ramble on but I thought I should tell you lot why I`ve been off here for ages. I`ll post this message on ASAPM so forgive me if you see it twice. I know I`ve been foolish but all posts of comfort will be gratefully received!!!! Love, Martin
would that be memory ‘loss’, or just short term memory is an effect in itself? or do you mean short term memory is slowed, which would mean one would only remember what one did yesterday when yesterday becomes in my homestate this week: (connecticut))
Bikers? Or do you mean posers on "hawgs?" I don’t care what patch they wear, all I meet these days are suburbanites playing dress-up and gangster games. It’s not lost or anything. Short-term memory just becomes more difficult to access while under the effects of THC. After an hour, everything is back to normal, whatever that may be. — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca
Short-term memory is the most easily noted effect for marijuana, but other processes are slowed too, such as reaction time.
would that be memory ‘loss’, or just short term memory is an effect in itself? or do you mean short term memory is slowed, which would mean one would only remember what one did yesterday when yesterday becomes in my homestate this week: (connecticut)) —Brian
The wrong link for the Compassion Club listings. It’s with an ‘h’: <http://medicalmarihuana.ca/compassionclubs.html Maybe. Can’t seem to remember right now. hahahahaha — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca
I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds?
Some of them. Vertigo, dizzyness and nausea. It can keep you from choking to death on vomit in your sleep. It renders a sense of euphoria. It is considered a euphoriant depressant drug. It’s very good for pain. Being called a "depressant" drug does not mean that it causes depression. A depressant drug slows down some brain processes. Short-term memory is the most easily noted effect for marijuana, but other processes are slowed too, such as reaction time. As for being a drug, it sure looks like a plant to me. Food. I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?)
Only if they’re brownies made with hashish. Pot cake and pot cookies are popular. To eat it, and not have it cost a fortune or use a whole lot, you have to first melt the finely-ground herb in the butter or other fat to be used in the recipe. Then bake it. By melting it into the fat prior to cooking it will emulsify and the active compounds will be more available upon ingestion. Do not cook with hashish – today that is considered a waste, which it is. The quality of both marijuana and hashish has changed a lot in the past twenty years. Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
Look for a Compassion Club in your area. Ask your physician for a prescription for medical marijuana if it is available in your area. In Canada and some US states, you can grow your own or contract for someone to do it for you. A prescription and some licenses are required. There are also medical marijuana suppliers, but they are quite expensive since the marijuana is indoor grown, organically under lab conditions at great expense. The price is similar to black market marijuana. If you grow your own, or contract a grower, it can be done anually and outdoors and can be very cheap. I don’t know which states in the USA it is legal in, but there are a few. There are also ways to get it in Europe and Britian, I don’t know those either. But, just in case it’s useful, here is the Canadian government site for obtaining the forms for the permits and licenses: Health Canada: <http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/ocma/ Compassion Clubs: <http://medicalmarijuana.ca/compassionclubs.html There are more clubs than what are listed there. Good seeds: <http://www.kindseed.com/ The favourites for medical use are: Jack Herer – Sensi Seeds (way overpriced, but hardy) Chronic – Serious Seeds (medium priced, longtime favourite) Chemo – Jordan Island Seeds (very good price, upcoming challenger) I’d go for the Chemo. It was developed as a medical grade strain, hence the name. — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca
snip Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything, Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess. I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital. I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail. It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers. Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll.
Sounds as though that spell in hospital triggered something. Have you told your doctor what you feel like? — — Whiskers
Pigtail, I’ve got lots of thoughts on this, including someone in your area that might just be eager to help. Loads of experience (23 years) from having my ill mother with me in my California residence and having to deal with the problem of needing medical benefits for her but the State disqualifying her because she was my dependant, but if she lived in her own place, she would be allowed to have a live in caretaker and still keep her benefits, but if the caretaker was related to her she’d be disqualified, because then they might consider her head of household….. I’m sure you know this song by now. It was written by the No Way to Win group of bureaucrats. Let me get my thoughts together, I’m still having trouble concentrating, and I’ll email you direct later today. Also, you mentioned that your mother is 87. My mother was 82, but I’m only 43 (the baby). I need to know your age, simply because, as we both know, the State can be very fixated on your age and what benefits and help they will let you receive all due to that magic number. Direct email me with it, so that I’ll hear the message come in. Blessings, Cait
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is Pigtail back again. Thank you Whiskers (love it) for your reply and help. Thank you Alan for the great sense of humor in your message, and thanks Tara for welcoming me. I appreciate all of you. I have to say that I’m not really comfortable posting personal thoughts, etc., but could use some new friends, and support. I wish I could reach out somehow, and touch each one of you, and make things turn better…like quick for you. My heart and thoughts are with you anyway. It is hard to see other’s suffering. This will be too long to write at one time. I live alone, and have helped the elderly and animals, my entire life. I do many things for the less fortunate. A year ago, I had some kind of attack….physician said gall bladder, but I didn’t have very good vibes about it. I had been out stacking bales of hay. In brief, this became a nightmare from hell. Before I was rudely interrupted and sent to the hospital, I was packing to move. You know….the entire house torn completely up. Putting everything in storage, and trying to paint, digging everything out of the yard..(e-gads), etc. I got out of the hospital in December, cold and raining, and back to the house just like I left it. In no shape, or mood to do anything but look at it all. Here I sit a year later overwhelmed in trying to figure out how to ever accomplish this. I can’t even find my good sense of humor….it is gone. I have became angry, stressed to the max, disgusted, and signs of depression lurking around me. Then I decided I would see about helping a couple people in the homeless shelter. If I could find the right people, it would help us both. I could give someone a permanant place to live, and maybe we could just get moved. All of us could be close to homeless if anything went wrong with our income for a few months. I would need someone compatible, etc. and I didn’t know how to go about this too well. I wanted someone that I could really help, and one who would appreciate it. I finally decide to leave the house…….and go to the shelter. Well, that did not turn out too good. They had to be screened, agree to see you, make an appointment, fill out all this information…… But, you can’t do it quite like that, it could mean losing your medical, etc. if you say they are living with you. There must be another way, but I don’t know what it is. Nothing I try to do works. I can’t figure out why. I have a whole business in storage. I should be pouring plaster molds right now for Christmas. It helps the animals, elderly, and the homeless. I do animal assisted therapy, and this helps support all of the above. Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything, Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess. I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital. I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail. It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers. Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll. Sorry this is so long. We all have different things to deal with, don’t we? Thank you for listening. I’m here if anyone needs or wants to talk. You can email me also, if you like. I wish good things to happen to each of you.
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
The pot is a depressant and will just make matters worse. Tell your doctor about you’re trouble with the meds. He can make changes if he deems it necessary.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
Hi! This is Pigtail back again. Thank you Whiskers (love it) for your reply and help. Thank you Alan for the great sense of humor in your message, and thanks Tara for welcoming me. I appreciate all of you. I have to say that I’m not really comfortable posting personal thoughts, etc., but could use some new friends, and support. I wish I could reach out somehow, and touch each one of you, and make things turn better…like quick for you. My heart and thoughts are with you anyway. It is hard to see other’s suffering. This will be too long to write at one time. I live alone, and have helped the elderly and animals, my entire life. I do many things for the less fortunate. A year ago, I had some kind of attack….physician said gall bladder, but I didn’t have very good vibes about it. I had been out stacking bales of hay. In brief, this became a nightmare from hell. Before I was rudely interrupted and sent to the hospital, I was packing to move. You know….the entire house torn completely up. Putting everything in storage, and trying to paint, digging everything out of the yard..(e-gads), etc. I got out of the hospital in December, cold and raining, and back to the house just like I left it. In no shape, or mood to do anything but look at it all. Here I sit a year later overwhelmed in trying to figure out how to ever accomplish this. I can’t even find my good sense of humor….it is gone. I have became angry, stressed to the max, disgusted, and signs of depression lurking around me. Then I decided I would see about helping a couple people in the homeless shelter. If I could find the right people, it would help us both. I could give someone a permanant place to live, and maybe we could just get moved. All of us could be close to homeless if anything went wrong with our income for a few months. I would need someone compatible, etc. and I didn’t know how to go about this too well. I wanted someone that I could really help, and one who would appreciate it. I finally decide to leave the house…….and go to the shelter. Well, that did not turn out too good. They had to be screened, agree to see you, make an appointment, fill out all this information…… But, you can’t do it quite like that, it could mean losing your medical, etc. if you say they are living with you. There must be another way, but I don’t know what it is. Nothing I try to do works. I can’t figure out why. I have a whole business in storage. I should be pouring plaster molds right now for Christmas. It helps the animals, elderly, and the homeless. I do animal assisted therapy, and this helps support all of the above. Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything, Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess. I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital. I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail. It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers. Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll. Sorry this is so long. We all have different things to deal with, don’t we? Thank you for listening. I’m here if anyone needs or wants to talk. You can email me also, if you like. I wish good things to happen to each of you.
Thanks Tara. Paul in Ontario discoursed thusly: I’ve become one of those people who I use to call
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is everything. I’m really living my worse night-mare! I thought I could handle anything in my life but mental illness mixed with a chronic disease is a one two punch that has rocked me to my foundation. I feel lower than a snakes belly!!! The important thing to keep in mind, Paul, is it’s *feelings*and not reality. The reality is, anyone who gets hit with that kind of one-two punch is going to feel shaky. It’s not weakness. It’s not failure. It’s a hell of a hit to have to take. So, cut yourself some slack. You didn’t ask for this shit, you don’t deserve this shit, and you’re doing the best you can in the circumstances. That’s the most any of us can do. Tara J. Ballance Montreal, Canada
Thanks all for responding. I kinda felt I was clutching at straws with the cannabis thoughts, but when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired Endocet pain killers which ultimatley led to my attempt at suicide. is everything. I’m really living my worse night-mare! I thought I could handle anything in my life but mental illness mixed with a chronic disease is a one two punch that has rocked me to my foundation. I feel lower than a snakes belly!!!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Twist- I also suffer from Hepatitis C, and a number of my friends (who do also) SWEAR by marijuana as a great way to relieve the pain and nausea from the Hep itself, as well as the Hep tx. As I’m sure you well know, a number of us are put on antids before beginning tx because of the side effects of the interferon. However, if you are suffering from NATURAL depression, (not drug induced) I’m not sure that I would go that route. Even though it DOES take 2-4 (or longer) weeks to fully realize any relief from a new antid, if the sides are THAT bad, it is unlikely that the relief will outweigh them. I would suggest that you go ahead and tell the doctor that you simply cannot take the sides, and try something else. Better to do it now, than to go through however long you give it, then find that it doesn’t work. Simply MHO though. Wanda
Twist- I also suffer from Hepatitis C, and a number of my friends (who do also) SWEAR by marijuana as a great way to relieve the pain and nausea from the Hep itself, as well as the Hep tx. As I’m sure you well know, a number of us are put on antids before beginning tx because of the side effects of the interferon. However, if you are suffering from NATURAL depression, (not drug induced) I’m not sure that I would go that route. Even though it DOES take 2-4 (or longer) weeks to fully realize any relief from a new antid, if the sides are THAT bad, it is unlikely that the relief will outweigh them. I would suggest that you go ahead and tell the doctor that you simply cannot take the sides, and try something else. Better to do it now, than to go through however long you give it, then find that it doesn’t work. Simply MHO though. Wanda
I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds?
It definately won’t help with depression, except that it might help you sleep. It is an amazing painkiller though, if the pain is physical. I suffer from severe migraine headaches and marijuana is the only thing I’ve ever known to successfully relieve them (after 10 years of looking). I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?)
I go to an affluent high school rife with drug use and no one I know of bothers with mixing it into food. I’ve been told you need quite a lot of it to do this, which could be expensive? I don’t know how much your medication is though.
I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
pot is a depressant as is alcohol…stay away from both, hang in there, let the meds have time to work. I’m waiting on mine to kick in (just started 3 days ago) and its not easy. I have good and bad moments…you will too-post here, check with your doc, call friends, play with a pet…stay away from self-medication though.
Yes, I know. But everyone keeps telling me I should wait another 2-4 weeks to see if effexor will work.
If you are getting side-efects that you can’t put up with, then certainly talk to the doctor again. There are lots of different anti-depressants, and each person reacts differently. Don’t stop taking the medication without talking to your doctor first; some things are best ‘tapered off’ gradually. — — Whiskers
No, I don’t think taking an illegal depressant will help your depression.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Yes, I know. But everyone keeps telling me I should wait another 2-4 weeks to see if effexor will work.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this. see a doctor , there are lots of drugs besides effexor
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
see a doctor , there are lots of drugs besides effexor
I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.
I just started to take 75 mg effexor xr, since the prozac i use to take, wasn’t working very well anymore. How is this anti-depressant like? Is it better than the older SSRIs? Sometimes I feel strange while I am on it. Does this go away with time? Are there more or less sexual side effects with this one compared to SSRIS like prozac and zoloft? Thanks for any help
I am now on 150 mg of Effexor, but it is only temporary. I have been on 75 mg since a couple of years ago, and there is no side effect which gives me problems. I am also on Risperdal, and recently my pdoc changed it for Zyprexa and I noted an increase of my sexual libido, so I am not sure if Effexor is lowering my libido. What I can say is that when I was married I didn’t find I needed more sexual drive than I actually had. If you find any annoying side effects from Effexor, most surely they’ll disappear in something like a week. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–
I just started to take 75 mg effexor xr, since the prozac i use to take, wasn’t working very well anymore. How is this anti-depressant like? Is it better than the older SSRIs? Sometimes I feel strange while I am on it. Does this go away with time? Are there more or less sexual side effects with this one compared to SSRIS like prozac and zoloft? Thanks for any help
Thanks for the link, Matt…this really is just plain scary, though. I also think that my doc was stupid to give me a pill that may cause insomnia…I do’nt sleep as it is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My advice: Follow your doctor’s instructions. If you experience any troubling side effects, ask your doctor about them. You can also look up Zoloft at www.webmd.com. The site has lists of possible side effects, warnings, and advice on what to do if you experience a particular side effect. I have experienced many of the common (and some less common) side effects of Zoloft. Right now the side effects don’t bother me much, but when I took a higher dose the side effects were very troubling. I hope Zoloft will help you, without any serious side effects. Finding the right meds and the right dose can take time. Good luck.
i’m panicking, freaking out, experiencing fight or flight feelings without reason, whatever the hell you want to call it… drink your water and breathe, Angela…breathe…in and out…nice deep breaths. Reason #1 why I never take pills: fear of adverse reactions
My advice: Follow your doctor’s instructions. If you experience any troubling side effects, ask your doctor about them. You can also look up Zoloft at www.webmd.com. The site has lists of possible side effects, warnings, and advice on what to do if you experience a particular side effect. I have experienced many of the common (and some less common) side effects of Zoloft. Right now the side effects don’t bother me much, but when I took a higher dose the side effects were very troubling. I hope Zoloft will help you, without any serious side effects. Finding the right meds and the right dose can take time. Good luck.
Even if something happens, the overwhelming chances are that it won’t be anywhere near as bad as the other inconveniences in life we put up with, colds, flu, hangovers, infections, etc. It’s a walk in the park compared to those.
I suppose. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bruce.
Yeah…I’m just freaked. I’m still a little bit worried, but not as badly as I was. Thanks, bruce.
Even if something happens, the overwhelming chances are that it won’t be anywhere near as bad as the other inconveniences in life we put up with, colds, flu, hangovers, infections, etc. It’s a walk in the park compared to those. Bruce.
Once my depression got bad enough, my fear was of NOT taking them. Bruce.
Yeah…I’m just freaked. I’m still a little bit worried, but not as badly as I was. Thanks, bruce. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Reason #1 why I never take pills: fear of adverse reactions
Once my depression got bad enough, my fear was of NOT taking them. Bruce.
Try to look at the odds of having an adverse reaction. I think you’ll find they are very very low. You have more danger from accidents and other things than from this medication.
Thanks, Stan. I feel a little better now. I talked to some people on the phone…not about this, but it dissipated my fear, distracted me from it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hugs Stan
i’m panicking, freaking out, experiencing fight or flight feelings without reason, whatever the hell you want to call it… drink your water and breathe, Angela…breathe…in and out…nice deep breaths. Reason #1 why I never take pills: fear of adverse reactions
Try to look at the odds of having an adverse reaction. I think you’ll find they are very very low. You have more danger from accidents and other things than from this medication. Hugs Stan
i’m panicking, freaking out, experiencing fight or flight feelings without reason, whatever the hell you want to call it… drink your water and breathe, Angela…breathe…in and out…nice deep breaths. Reason #1 why I never take pills: fear of adverse reactions
I have been on Wellbutrin SR 150mg x 2 for 2 months now. I have not noticed any difference. Perhaps I am not really depressed or Wellbutrin isn’t the drug for me. Anyway, I go to my doctor next week and I am wondering if I should tell him to take me off the Wellbutrin. I don’t know if I should ask for another anti-depressant. I don’t want to try any of the evil SSRIs so that would leave Effexor as one of my few choices. But I heard it is very addictive. What if it doesn’t work either and I have to withdraw from it? Diablo
Hi, Have your friends/coworkers/family members noticed any differences in you? I didn’t notice much of a change in me either until my friends started commenting that I didn’t seem as nervous as I used to. Good luck, Amanda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Wellbutrin SR 150mg x 2 for 2 months now. I have not noticed any difference. Perhaps I am not really depressed or Wellbutrin isn’t the drug for me. Anyway, I go to my doctor next week and I am wondering if I should tell him to take me off the Wellbutrin. I don’t know if I should ask for another anti-depressant. I don’t want to try any of the evil SSRIs so that would leave Effexor as one of my few choices. But I heard it is very addictive. What if it doesn’t work either and I have to withdraw from it? Diablo
Effexor is known to be ONE of the hardest ADs to ween oneself off of… If you want to call THAT addiction, so be it. It can be done quite well, but you need a good doc’s help to do it right or the advise of people here who have done it well. I’m only repeating what I’ve gleaned around these boards. The consensus seems to be that it’s a very good antidepressant, generally helping more people than Wellbutrin, which helps some very well, and many not at all. My opinion.. (my "test", if you will) is that if you FEEL depressed, you ARE depressed…(Ask yourself "Am I depressed?") If you answer "hell, yes" or even "yeah, sorta most of the time", then continue to seek an AD that "fits" you. Effexor is in actually an "SSRI-plus"…. by that I mean it functions as an SSRI but ALSO affects norepinephrine, which some of us seem to need for relief. Go for it, IMHO.
I’ve been on Wellbutrin for over a yr, my pdoc switched me to Effexor. After 3 wks I still feel too sedated compared to Wellbutrin. I’ve even added a 150mg does of Wellbutrin to counter act the effexor. I’ve reduced toe effexor to 75mg daily with some relief. Personally, I liked the combo of Celexa and Wellbutrin, will consider this next visit. I’m very afraid of the withdrawal side effects with Effexor, that’s enough of a depressing thought to think about. Wellbutrin you come andgo with NO withdrawals. Just my 2 cents.Good Luck Den Dennis D
I’ve been on Wellbutrin for over a yr, my pdoc switched me to Effexor. After 3 wks I still feel too sedated compared to Wellbutrin. I’ve even added a 150mg does of Wellbutrin to counter act the effexor. I’ve reduced toe effexor to 75mg daily with some relief. Personally, I liked the combo of Celexa and Wellbutrin, will consider this next visit. I’m very afraid of the withdrawal side effects with Effexor, that’s enough of a depressing thought to think about. Wellbutrin you come andgo with NO withdrawals. Just my 2 cents.Good Luck Den Dennis D
Hi dennis, How did you like the celexa and wellbutrin combo. I have a problem with bad mood disorder with constant racing thoughts? any side effects geno
I am on Effexor and Wellbuterin. Recently my pdoc was weaning me off Effexor. He tried Wellbuterin….totally bombed alone. He said it is not meant for major depressive episodes. Don’t be afraid to talk to your doctor, if you are not honest with him how can he help you… And yes Effexor has some bad withdrawal. I just went through it and it was nasty. So nasty I bottomed out in depression, plus other affects. I had to have all my meds rearranged. It was quite the experience I care not to repeat. I went back on Effexor. Don’t let that stand in the way of your recovery. I would rather be on Effexor than any other AD. Why? Because it works. dd
The Celexa is slight sedating for me and personally I liked it until the Rx ran out and my doc changed it to Effexor. He also mentioned uping the Celexa to 40-60mg, that 20 was just too low. I’m also gewtting headaches from effexor. I’l give it a try for another month and then asked for the combo, but this time at 40mg Celexa. I was only on 150 of Wellbutrin (sometimes twice a day) Dennis Dennis D
Whats wrong with the SSRIs?The SSRIs are great, few hassles and easy to use. Who told you Effexor is very addictive? Thats total bullshit.
I don’t want to sound like Andrew, but I believe that SSRIs turn people into zombified Prozakians who go on shooting sprees. After monitoring this newsgroup for many months I notice that people complain the most about SSRIs. And several people have complained that Effexor is addictive. If I were to even contemplate an SSRI, what would be the best choice. I already have made up my mind against Prozac and Paxil. Luvox was what Eric Harris of Columbine had been taking and Zoloft is what Phil Hartman’s wife was taking when she shot him. You can call these isolated instances but I have yet to see Wellbutrin implicated in any murder sprees. Diablo
Whats your dx Diable?
I originally went to the doctor because of an extended manic episode I had been having. While manic episodes can occur by themselves, it is very rare to not have them accompanied by depression. In retrospect I can recall extended periods where I seemed extremely depressed. If I am bipolar, then the cycles are very long. I’m not even sure if I am depressed right now. I wanted to try an a.d. to see if it would lift my mood. And if I am bipolar, then eventually I will go into the depressive phase and will need an anti-depressant anyway. My doctor originally put me on Risperdal and clonazepam for the mania and they worked very well. After a few months I asked for Wellbutrin. I have felt no difference. Perhaps Wellbutrin isn’t right for me. I want to give another anti-depressant a try before giving up. Effexor usually gets good reviews here but I am worried about its addictiveness. I did try Prozac once. My mother stopped taking it and I snacked on her leftover pills for a few weeks. I didn’t like the way it made me feel. The first time I took it it induced an LSD flashback. Later I tried taking 4-5 pills at once and it made me feel very weird. Diablo
Despite my desperate post of today, I still believe Effexor is a great med. Twice in my life I tapered and stopped Paxil under a doctor’s care, and several months later each time, came the closest to being hospitalized after getting so depressed. When I had to go off the Effexor, I was depressed because it was working so well,and I knew what I was in for with the SSRIs. For what it’s worth, I had no problems stopping Effexor. I suffer from panic disorder and depression, and found Wellbutrin alone intolerable- I wanted to smash things,and it gave me panic attacks. Wellbutrin with Paxil seemed to alleviate some of the more disturbing side effects of the Paxil- my doctor said it was because chemically, that combination is most like Effexor. Good luck with whatever you decide!
In the future, I hope you specify WHY you have attitudes like you do about SSRIs. Someone with unipolar major depression or anxiety problems might read your posts and get terrified of taking SSRIs and stop them, while they very well may need them badly. SSRIs dont have the problems you mentioned in the unipolar depression and anxiety disorder populations, if anything its the exact opposite of what you earlier described.
Part of my attitude toward SSRIs comes from media reports. Before I had even checked out these groups I would see constant media reports about some violent incident in which the perpetrator had been taking an SSRI. I realize the majority of people taking them do not react this way (yet) but the long-term effects of them are still unknown. I already mentioned Phil Hartmann’s wife (Zoloft), Eric Harris (Luvox), and that school shooter in El Cajon had also been taking some sort of anti-depressant. Most disturbing is the fact that the media has done virtually no reporting on this connection. Since we can assume the media is in the pocket of the powerful pharmaceutical industry, this lack of reporting is very suspicious. Diablo
Diablo lamictal might be a good thing for you to try if you are bipolar yet in the depressive phase. Lamictal is developing an excellent reputation as mood stabilizer, yet has antidepressant qualities to it.
Thanks, I’ll ask my doctor about it. Is it addictive and what kind of side- effects can I expect. Diablo
You are first person i know of who found no effect on Wellbutrin though. Lots of undeprssed people use it to quit smoking and they report lots of effects too.
Maybe I’m not really depressed. But I really do not feel anything from it. No "energizing" effects. The only thing it does is make my urine smell really bad. I have been depressed in the past and a diagnosis of mania without depression would be really unusual. Oh well, I’ll give Effexor a try and if that doesn’t work I’ll just give up for awhile. Diablo
if i were you id be asking bout mood stablizers,,, lot of lay people see my up swings in mood as manicy, and when mood stablizers arent suggested, it is effexor comes up a lot as suggested for me, whether my up swings seen as manicy or PTSD.
My doctor didn’t think a mood stabilizer was necessary. I do not seem to suffer from rapid mood swings. The Risperdal did the trick for the mania and now I want a happy pill. I knew someone on Lithium and he was very slooooow. Depakote has too many side-effects, including hair loss which I really don’t want. Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Diablo
Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"?
Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan.
Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan.
The movie is about a pharmaceutical company under heavy pressure to develop a new drug, so they release an anti-depressant before it has been properly tested. The drug locks on to a person’s happiest memory but its side effect is that after several weeks the person turns into a zombie with a big grin. The moral of the story is that people aren’t supposed to be happy all the time. Diablo
exactly what effexor does.. cause a grin on myy face that i cant stop and is VERY painful after an hour or so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan. The movie is about a pharmaceutical company under heavy pressure to develop a new drug, so they release an anti-depressant before it has been properly tested. The drug locks on to a person’s happiest memory but its side effect is that after several weeks the person turns into a zombie with a big grin. The moral of the story is that people aren’t supposed to be happy all the time. Diablo I saw an episode of one of the Trauma shows one night and some guy was in the ER after taking was he said was "street valium" and he had this big ol’ grin on his face and he couldn’t stop grinning. In the ER he was telling the Doctors to "make it stop!" and the Dr’s were trying so hard not to laugh at this guy, but it was pretty funny. Eventually after an hour or so I think the drug wore of and the guy was able to stop smiling and he left there none too happy. But the ER staff was roaring with laughter. I don’t know what the real drug was that he took, but nothin’ would wipe the smile off that guy’s face and his voice sounded like he was in pain. Amazing reactions people have to drugs sometimes.
The loss of bloating and heart burn after eliminating wheat is very common to low carbers. If you eat wheat it will come back with a vengeance. However, I found that after 1 1/2 yrs of low carbing when I reintroduced modest amounts of wheat back into my diet I no longer had major problems with it. The explanation may be that resting the system allows something to heal.
I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
I haven’t had gas problems since I started. I used to have them all the time. My mood cycles (I have been manic-depressive all my life) have pretty much cleared up. Any bad periods only last a couple of days, and they have been rare. I have much better muscle control ( I have benign essential tremor and sclerotic symptoms) in fact I’m starting art again, and can go back to playing instruments I haven’t been able to play in years. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 290/251/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs?
I think that bloating after eating wheat/grain products is a symptom of Celiac Disease, something that basically makes people who are allergic to the grain products and don’t know it very ill. Or you could just have a digestive system sensitive to grains. Amy
Welcome to the group! Keep on posting! I think you’ve got a great attitude about your weight and putting more importance on how you feel. Don’t think you’ve got to stick with eggs for breaky… anything will do. Last night’s leftovers, even. Sometime’s I’ll panfry a pork chop or chicken breast for breakfast, or have a protein shake. Haven’t done this in a while, but there’s a recipe for flax meal hot cereal that is yummy, too, plus provides lots of fiber as well as good fats. Of course, unless you’re in the southern hemisphere, it’s starting to get too warm to have hot cereal in the morning.. but to each his own. LOL! Good luck on your low carb journey! — Cheers! Nicole K. 263/202/150 ~~ Yes, its tough to do, but the results that last a lifetime are worth more then a bowl of ice cream that lasts only 5 mins. –Tinakaye
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << – PMS virtually disappeared yes, me too since starting this Low carb. this is my first time posting on here, since i’ve been trying out this low carb thing i haven’t been really following like the induction diet too closely but i will soon.. i found that i very rarely have cravings for sweets(which are the worst for me) and pasta/bread. that the hunger pains disappeared,(usually when i don’t skip lunch) and have less bloatedness and stomachache aches. I haven’t noticed any weight losses yet which b/c i don’t like the scale, i’m like 200lbs by the Dr’s scale, so i would like to be about 150 but i’ve always went by how i feel and how my clothes fit. I want to really start this induction diet soon, but i’ve found that i’d never thought i’d get tired of eggs b/c sometimes i don’t know what else to eat esp. for breakfat. i’ve been trying to cut down on the caffeine which is the hardest b/c i feel that it causes me to be more hungry afterwards. so hopefully i can get more motivation to do this induction diet and start ’seeing’ some results! take care, kim
I also had occasional "wind" problems that were solved by this WOE and return when I go back to my evil ways –especially sweets! Kirsten
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering for a minute there how "wind" could cause stomach aches. but now I understand you didn’t mean the weather kind — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/ My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it. I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
<< – PMS virtually disappeared yes, me too since starting this Low carb. this is my first time posting on here, since i’ve been trying out this low carb thing i haven’t been really following like the induction diet too closely but i will soon.. i found that i very rarely have cravings for sweets(which are the worst for me) and pasta/bread. that the hunger pains disappeared,(usually when i don’t skip lunch) and have less bloatedness and stomachache aches. I haven’t noticed any weight losses yet which b/c i don’t like the scale, i’m like 200lbs by the Dr’s scale, so i would like to be about 150 but i’ve always went by how i feel and how my clothes fit. I want to really start this induction diet soon, but i’ve found that i’d never thought i’d get tired of eggs b/c sometimes i don’t know what else to eat esp. for breakfat. i’ve been trying to cut down on the caffeine which is the hardest b/c i feel that it causes me to be more hungry afterwards. so hopefully i can get more motivation to do this induction diet and start ’seeing’ some results! take care, kim
I was wondering for a minute there how "wind" could cause stomach aches. but now I understand you didn’t mean the weather kind — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it. I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
Absolutely! – PMS virtually disappeared. Now I have to pay excrutiating attention to the calendar instead of relying on breast tenderness, bloating, moodiness, rages, etc to indicate that my period was about to start. – Digestive problems greatly diminished. – Depression has disappeared. I’m now on an even keel emotionally for the first time in my life. – I’m awake and alert all day, where before I used to take a nosedive onto my desk at about 2 in the afternoon. – I sleep better and can wake up easier in the morning. – Food no longer has control over me. – I can stop eating when I’m satisfied instead of being compelled to eat more, even if I was gorged. Oh, and I’ve lost 61 pounds. — Cheers! Nicole K. 263/202/150 ~~ Yes, its tough to do, but the results that last a lifetime are worth more then a bowl of ice cream that lasts only 5 mins. –Tinakaye
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that. Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina
Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism.
Can anyone tell me the difference between ketoacidosis and lactoacidosis? I remember lactoacidosis being one of the potential (and extremely life-threatening) side-effects of taking the drug metformin (which I’ve since stopped taking) Is it the same as ketoacidosis? thanks ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~
Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed.
LOL Try reading the book … Dr Atkins and his diet have been around for over 20 years now … jackass ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~
"Nina" wrote … I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves. Good chap. <snip Thanks darling! You’re simply divine.
*laffin’ my @ss off!* ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~
"Lisa C." wrote Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you.
I was wondering how long it would take for people to bite, I’ve seen quite a few anti-low-carb messages from this guy today – poor Nigel No-Mates needs to annoy people to get any attention … poor diddums! Every newsgroup needs a troll to play with! ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx
Ahh, so you think that no one holds the answer. The Doctors may not be right all the time. And Encylopedia Britainica? More knowledgable that PhD education biochemists? What makes you so sure you hold the "right" answer anymore than the doctors who do recommend this diet? Half the people in any arguement are correct, you think you way, we will think out way. Just don’t try to save us from ourselves, and we won’t tell YOU how to run your life either. Hope (PMS’ing and bitchy from being tempted by the pizza monster tonight at a friend’s place) 183/180/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14. A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books. BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed?
1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.
You neglected to note that ketoacidosis is a condition limited to Type I diabetics. In people who are capable of producing insulin, feedback mechanisms in the body prevent dietary ketosis from becoming ketoacidosis. When ketone concentrations reach a certain level, the body releases insulin and inhibits metabolism of fats. — "There’s a seeker born every minute."
I love it Nina!! lol Cath
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves. Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health. In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina —
So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further.
Oh, good – does this mean you’ll go away now??
Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed. I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.
Except, the references you’ve given aren’t objective. Or complete. Encyclopedias have always been put together by biased people. You can read encyclopedias of the past to understand how this is true. For example, a writer I am fond of, Lytton Strachey, was a homosexual and lived with a woman artist he had a platonic lifelong affair with, for a good portion of his adult life. (Early 20th century) An encyclopedia from the early seventies that I was doing research in, claimed he was a lifelong bachelor, who lived until his death with his mother. This was a so-called authoritative text! Read old encyclopedias, and the archaic ideas put out by them will shock you. Read medical books from a few years back and you’ll run into the same situation. This has been true for centuries. Ketosis CAN be a symptom of a number of disorders. That does not mean it is always a symptom of a disorder. Ketogenic diets are increasingly recognized as an excellent way to deal with brain and nerve system disorders such as epilepsy & sclerosis. I know that it is certainly making a difference in my condition, benign essential tremor. There is a reason why the quotation "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is so true. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.) So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second. There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"
You are assuming we are all idiots. Far from it. I didn’t leap into this diet. I was concerned about it for years. But the more I have learned, and the more I do it, the more I know I’ve made a good choice. And if you are concerned about side effects, take a look at all the pharmaceutical ads that are promoting wonder drugs right now, that must by law list the side effects of the drugs. You think this diet is dangerous? God. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not desperate. I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG. I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet. Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS!
Fact: It takes more than writing "Fact" to make something a Fact. Thought I would explain that to you, since you seem confused. I hate for FACTS to get in the way of a good argument, but alas, it’s now to be the case. Before I killfile you, I’ll leave you with this: I’m imagining you’re talking about the FALLACY that "protein causes calcium loss." I’d also imgine you’ve got nothing to back up your claim except that your mother’s-brother’s-friend-who-once-knew-a-nutritionist told you. There’s much more that goes into bone density, like activity level and hormones. But that would be like, facts, which I think you have no desire to be in possession of. Before you go into my killfile (ta!) I’ll leave you with this. High Protein Diets and Bone Loss by Elzi Volk http://www.allprotraining.com/Articles/NutritionCenter/2000/May/highp… (She actually uses, like, references and stuff. But again, let’s not have facts get in the way of things) It’s believed that the old research was poorly designed and is outdated. A wee bit o’ current research. Proc Nutr Soc 1999 May;58(2):403-13 Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Millward DJ Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biological Sciences, For protein, progress is slow in defining quantifiable indicators of adequacy other than balance and growth. As far as current requirements are concerned, only in the case of infants and children is there any case for revision, and this change is to lower values. Such intakes would appear to be safe when consumed as milk formula. In pregnancy, notwithstanding the concern that deficiency may influence programming of disease in later life, there is little evidence of any increased need, and some evidence that increased intakes would pose a risk. For the elderly there is no evidence of an increased requirement or of benefit from increased intakes, except possibly for bone health. For adults, while we now know much more about metabolic adaptation to varying intakes, there would appear to be no case for a change in current recommendations. As far as risks and benefits of high intakes are concerned, there is now only a weak case for risk for renal function. For bone health the established views of risk of high protein intakes are not supported by newly-emerging data, with benefit indicated in the elderly. There is also circumstantial evidence for benefit on blood pressure and stroke mortality. With athletes there is little evidence of benefit of increased intakes in terms of performance, with older literature suggesting an adverse influence. Thus, given that a safe upper limit is currently defined as twice the reference nutrient intake, and that for individuals with high energy requirements this value (1.5 g/kg per d) is easily exceeded, there is a case for revising thedefinition of a safe upper limit. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html
Ketosis-lipolysis is NOT ketoacidosis http://www.lowcarb.org/ketosis.html Please don’t feed the TROLL. Lee Rodgers Lee Rodgers The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans. LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr.A Read the FAQ jack http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc Lowcarb Cookbooks http://www.lowcarb.org/cook_bks.html
Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed. I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.) So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second. There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"
Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed. I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.
Everyone here is not on Atkins. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.) So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second. There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"
Back’atcha. Read a book once and awhile. You might learn something. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html
I’m not desperate. I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG. I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet.
Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS! Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed. Fact: The Atkin’s DIE-t WILL go the way of the dinosaurs, leisure suits, AMC Pacers, disco, …etc. Maybe it’s just Atkins’ way of ridding the world of really dumb folk?… YA NEVER KNOW
And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14. A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books. BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet. Is he a quack too? I think not. If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now. In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year. By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier. I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them. You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though. I didn’t, I just bought the book is all. I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have. If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole. And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01
You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet. Is he a quack too? I think not. If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now. In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year. By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier. I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them. You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though. I didn’t, I just bought the book is all. I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have. If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole. And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01
May I assume then that you have no association with the poorly designed home made web page that you quote other than the Britannica site or the products being sold there? You should update FrontPage. Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you. :-) LiLi (180/169/125)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? — :-) LiLi (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise. What he sells is a half-truth. He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???
I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that!
Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves. Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health. In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Since you have now established yourself to be a virtual "Guardian Angel" over my well-being, I imagine you could and would be agreeable to extending your caring attitude towards the other areas of my life also. Firstly, please contact me as soon as possible so we can discuss my laundry. I have a back-up of about three loads to do, and could you make sure to do the delicates by hand? Secondly, Peanut the dog could really use a bath. Please pick up the special Lytar soap at the Specialty Pet Store. He could use a nail clip as well. Then the bathtub will need scrubbing and, well, since you are looking out for my health, please scrub the entire bathroom whilst you’re at it. Wouldn’t want any of those nasty germs to interfere with my health. Oh, and the car could use some gassing up and then maybe a quick sweep of the apartment. Doc, love, you’re right up there with Mother Teresa and Princess Di. I’ll notify Stockholm. The Nobel Committmee will want to hear about this! Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html
Hey, I’m not desperate. I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG. I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet. I really have never felt better in my life. Don’t get me wrong. In my 20’s, I lost weight on the mainstream, low-fat, high complex carbo diet. I tried it again, now that I’m in my late 30’s, and it wasn’t happening for me. However, I started low carb and the pounds are coming off, albeit slowly, but hey, I’m in no hurry. I personally don’t believe it’s healthy to eat all the carbs I was eating on a "normal" diet. I don’t think Atkins is a fad diet…he’s been around since the early 70’s. Maybe you could try the old saying, "Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it." Gwendolyn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? — :-) LiLi (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise. What he sells is a half-truth. He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???
Cute. Lets examine some of your quotations and conclusions… Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com)
Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) —
Ketosis from low carbohydrate consumption is not the same state as ketosis from starvation. Whatever diet you may be on, starvation is bad news. When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel.
Your body can burn sugar for fuel. It can also burn ethanol. And it can burn fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of
How do you determine what is abnormal here? Ketones are normally present in fat metabolism, normally absent in carbohydrate metabolism. metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis).
No. Ketosis is not ketoacidosis. 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness.
Also sudden death. But nobody deliberately induces ketoacidosis. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.
Yes. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He
Since Dr. Atkins does not propose the inducement of a ketoacidotic state, he doesn’t generally warn his readers against that — though he does advise that ketosis is not ketoacidosis. also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a
What abnormal chemicals? residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones!
Where did you come up with this. I have been in a state of ketosis over 7 months. Just had blood work done. No abnormal chemicals noted in the blood work. Kidney function is doing great. Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract.
What makes you think that kidney stones are common among low carb eaters. Where did you get that idea? (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life.
I learned a lot before I was six that I discarded when I was 7. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state?
What makes you think this is an unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees).
That is actually funny. The brain and red blood cells do need sugar. They get all they need during ketosis by the conversion of protein to sugar. All the cells of your body need fat and are quite happy using fat for energy. I run a health care facility — a very demanding job. If my brain has been slowed down so much that I can’t even notice it, don’t you think everyone else would? Don’t you think my wife would notice that I had suddenly become slow and stupid? Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way?
Diabetic ketoacidosis is indeed a metabolic disorder caused by the body’s inability to tolerate sugar. I certainly believe that it is wise to avoid diabetic ketoacidosis. A low carbohydrate diet is the best way to avoid that condition. Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while?
What makes you say that ketosis is an ‘emergency state’? It is a quite normal state. The body can burn sugar (which results in one state) or fat (which results in another state). Why do you feel that one state is normal while the other is not? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some
… read more »
Actually, in my biochem med class Yesterday I asked my professor… the brain actually prefers ketones… and she showed me. The brain doesn’t like glucose. I’d like to see a study with IQ and diet… it wouldn’t surprise me if (with a large sample size), we could show higher scores under Ketosis. That article, was… incorrect. I’ll agree with you about the media… science and health are reported inaccurately more then half the time. The fat craze is one great example. Study after study show that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.. yet people actually try to cut back on Fat. I bet there are still doctors out there who think ulcers are related to stress… that was disproved.. its a bacterial infection… within a few years we will see the atkins diet become the diet. FDA should take over the nutrition business… why our food suppliers are telling us what is healthy is beyond me. American Heart Association Labels on Apple Jacks… get real. Just as grain production increased the pyramid… and the ratios provided (servings) is remarkably close to the grain surplus when divided spastically. I take it you probably don’t have a weight problem… or if you did… u may have been one of those who just ate too da*n much. I have no respect for those people at all. My doctor (MD, duel PhD (biochem) was the one who recommended it. Along with my sisters endocrinologist who is #1 in the world right now.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? — :-) LiLi (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when
… read more »
OH BROTHER!!! I am not even going to go into trying to explain the safety and medical aspect of this diet – except to point out that Dr. Atkins is a Doctor, a cardiologist, in fact. Go buy his book. And there is a HUGE difference between ketosis and KETOACIDOSIS or Diabetic Ketoacidosis or DKA. After reading your "interesting" post, I went and did some research that would put the difference into simple English. I don’t know what your agenda is, but here is what I found from emedicine.com and thestream.com: KETOSIS "Ketosis is a metabolic state in which the body will burn fat for fuel and is producing "ketones" (also called ketone bodies) as a byproduct. This change in metabolism occurs when the body no longer has a supply of carbohydrates to produce glycogen and after the liver has been depleted of stored glycogen. When either stored body fat or incoming dietary fat is used as fuel it breaks down into ketones. Ketones can be used as fuel for your body or discarded via your breath or urination. It is the rise in ketone production that means you are "in ketosis". Take note that although you are in ketosis this does not mean that you are *only* burning body fat. The released ketones may be from either body fat or dietary fat. Obviously, since we are trying to lose weight, we want to be in a metabolic state where body fat is being burned off. Therefore, understanding the biochemical foundation of ketosis, we cut starches and sugars, this is called "low carbing", and without incoming carbs, and without consuming too many grams of dietary fat or protein, our bodies will be burning stored body fat as fuel. Positive side effects of being in ketosis are that it can be protein sparing (allowing us to retain lean body mass) and that it can lead to a decrease in appetite, for some people." KETOACIDOSIS on the other hand is caused by hyperglycemia which causes an osmotic diuresis that leads to excessive loss of free water and electrolytes. Resultant hypovolemia leads to tissue hypoperfusion and lactic acidosis. The danger from electrolyte imbalances are the consequences of hyperglycemia, hyperosmolality and acidosis. CARB DIET "This biochemical process is safe. It is not a "fad" diet, it is one that our ancestors at almost exclusively. High in lean meats, fresh fruits and vegetables, low in most carbohydrates. For a typical American at least 70% of calories are provided by foods that were practically unavailable early human times, namely processed foods such as oils, margarine, refined sugar and cereals. These typical western foods are low in minerals, vitamins and soluble fiber but high in fat and salt. There is much evidence indicating that some of these dietary factors are important causes of common western disorders like CORONARY HEART DISEASE, STROKE and DIABETES. Rather than being harmful, there is mounting evidence that the low carbohydrate diet is extremely helpful."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis,
… read more »
I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate. This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? — :-) LiLi (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise. What he sells is a half-truth. He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???
Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? — :-) LiLi (180/169/125)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise. What he sells is a half-truth. He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???
Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work. After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?". Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis. Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted. The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates. Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state. The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder". Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness. Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency". Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is. It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right. After reading what I have, I’m glad I did. I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise. What he sells is a half-truth. He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day? No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
I can identify. The thing that saves me from depression depresses me. I take Effexor now (for a couple of years) but it started half way through the Prozac (about 4 years into that 8-year stint). Tried Welbutrin but that made me really crazy. -seph [I'm paul but you already got one, so I'll be seph, as in joseph or persephone] ::: Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So ::: unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of ::: diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
Yes. It’s normal. Supplementary Wellbutrin may help. It is often used to ameliorate the sexual side effects caused by antidepressant medication, and has been shown in numerous clinical studies to be effective for this purpose. Speaking of Wellbutrin, it also so happens that Wellbutrin is an antidepressant in its own right, noteworthy for not having this particular side effect that you are complaining about. C//
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
A friend of mine had it, though only at night, and his physician prescribed him Benadryl and it worked. This has been quite a few years ago though. Rick
Is it possible to develop RLS as a side effect of Zoloft? Ever since my gp upped my dose to 150mg I can’t seem to keep my feet still. I’m constantly moving my feet around, even when I sleep. And I don’t like doing it but I can’t seem to help it. Mary — "I want to walk and not run. I want to skip and not fall. I want to look at the horizon and not see a building standing tall." – Dixie Chicks
Hi Edward, I have RLS occassionally, an irresistable urge to keep moving my legs, usually dorsiflexion of the feet. While clonazepam seems to be the treatment of choice, I don’t see why it would be better than any other benzo. There are many, many treatments for RLS, as is often the case when no one treatment is that successful. Chip p.s. cutting back on the caffeine (coffee) may help Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
I have just looked up information about restless leg syndrome this morning. I checked the sleepmed site and National Sleep Foundation. Apparently, there is a correlation with B-12 deficiancy and rls. I had restless legs last year and before.I started to improve my eating,exercising and I started taking vitamins and minerals related to stress and anxiety. I started taking the B complex with a B12 and I have not had any problems with restless legs for about a year now! It is a vitamin, that I buy at WalMart. I would give it a try as it will not hurt you nor interfer with prescriptions. Facts About Restless Legs What is Restless Legs Syndrome? If you have restless legs syndrome (RLS), or are a physician seeing a patient with RLS, you’ll probably recognize these symptoms: An urge to move the legs, often accompanied by uncomfortable sensations in the legs, usually described as a creeping or crawling feeling, but sometimes as a tingling, cramping, burning or just plain pain. Some patients have no definite sensation, except for the need to move. (The arms may also be affected, but that’s much less common.) The need to move the legs to relieve the discomfort, by stretching or bending, rubbing the legs, tossing or turning in bed, or getting up and pacing the floor. Moving usually offers some temporary relief of symptoms. A definite worsening of the discomfort when lying down, especially when you’re trying to fall asleep at night, or during other forms of inactivity, including just sitting. A tendency to experience the most discomfort late in the day and at night. Sleep disturbances are common with RLS, primarily because of the difficulty it causes in getting to sleep. If leg twitching or jerking is also present, a related disorder called periodic limb movements during sleep (PLMS) may be the cause. With PLMS, the leg movements may be severe enough to awaken you (see the PLMS fact sheet). In RLS, PLMS-like sypmtoms can sometimes occur during wakefulness, as well as in sleep. How common is RLS? Restless leg syndrome may affect as much as 2-5 percent of the population, with varying degrees of intensity. What causes RLS? The cause of RLS is still unknown. Some cases are inherited and more than one family member may be affected. Some cases have been associated with nerve damage in the legs due to diabetes, kidney problems or alcoholism. RLS can also be a side effect of a pinched nerve root from arthritis in the lower back (sciatica). Is RLS serious? RLS is not considered medically serious. However, the symptoms can range anywhere from bothersome to incapacitating. Fluctuations in severity are common, and occasionally the symptoms may disappear for periods of time. RLS can begin at any age, but the symptoms tend to worsen over the years and become more severe in middle-to-old age. Pregnancy or hormonal changes may temporarily worsen RLS symptoms. Stress, diet or other environmental factors may play a role for some people. Can RLS be treated? Most cases of RLS respond well to medical treatment. There are three main classes of medication that have been shown to be effective in treating both RLS and PLMS. Benzodiazepines – This class includes such drugs as diazepam (Valium),clonazepam (Klonopin), temazepam (Restoril) and triazolam (Halcion). L-Dopa – This class enhances a brain chemical known as dopamine. It includes such drugs as L-Dopa with carbidopa (Sinement), pergolide (Permax) and bromocriptine (Parlodel). Opiates – This class generally is reserved for the more severe symptoms. It includes codeine (active ingredient in Tylenol #3), oxycodone (active ingredient in Percocet), propoxyphene (Darvon) and methadone (in very severe cases only). All of these medicatons are available by prescription only and should only be taken while under the care of a licensed physician. Where do I go for help? Seek professional medical advice. You may wish to begin by consulting your family physician or by making an appointment for an evaluation at an accredited sleep disorders center in your area. For a listing of accredited centers, contact: The National Sleep Foundation, 1522 K St., NW, Suite 510, Washington, DC 20005. Phone (202) 347-3471 or fax (202) 347- 3472. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Margrove writes (in re: RLS): a true case of restless leg is not anxiety based at all. It is usually caused from being overtired or overworked in a physical sense. The nuerons of the muscles are still firing to one level or another in a hyperactive way-you can notice it most when you are overtired. Some are helped by adding a dose of niacin or niacinamide a b vitimin around 100mg to their diet-others a nice physical workout 3x per week does the trick. There are vascular problems that can mimic this benign condition so if you have pain or numness coldness or severe cramping of the calf muscles have your doc check it out. Some folks are also helped by increased calcium and magnesium but ask a doc first. LM
Hi Margrove! Just wanted to say thanks for this info…we had a pt. at the clinic where I med. assisted in the early 80’s with RLS, and I felt so bad for him, since there wasn’t much known about the cause, tx, etc. Now I’ll have something to refer to if I encounter someone w/ the problem again… Very interesting & helpful, as always! Love, Char*) P.S. FWIW, I am forever wiggling a foot or moving a leg while sitting down…I always figured it was a "nervous habit", which certainly wouldn’t be far-fetched for a PD Type A personality like me:P
Is it possible to develop RLS as a side effect of Zoloft? Ever since my gp upped my dose to 150mg I can’t seem to keep my feet still. I’m constantly moving my feet around, even when I sleep. And I don’t like doing it but I can’t seem to help it. Mary Yes. Zoloft (and all SSRIs) can induce or exacerbate movement disorders, one of which is RLS. An increase in my Zoloft dose once resulted in a worsening of my RLS, and this got better after a reduction in Zoloft dose. A later increase in Zoloft dose did not cause a worsening of my RLS. A temporary reduction in Zoloft dose may resolve this problem for you. Good luck. Chip
Hi Edward, I have RLS occassionally, an irresistable urge to keep moving my legs, usually dorsiflexion of the feet. While clonazepam seems to be the treatment of choice, I don’t see why it would be better than any other benzo. There are many, many treatments for RLS, as is often the case when no one treatment is that successful. Chip p.s. cutting back on the caffeine (coffee) may help Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
I think everyone I know has that! (And they’re normies?) bw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
– bw Before you buy.
It’s common knowledge that Edward Fadden said: Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
Yes, I have experienced it. Didn’t know it was a "syndrome" though! But it can really be irritating. If it happens in bed, it can keep me awake for hours. I hate it! Huggs, Cathy
I have "periodic limb movement syndrome" which is different in the effect that my limbs will twitch or jolt out uncontrollably; not too much of a pain, I’m pretty used to it; and it isn’t that noticable unless it’s noghttime. Right before I fall asleep my legs jolt big time! I’ve pretty much learned to pay no mind to it. It’s as subconscience as breathing to me, now. Kerrie
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
a true case of restless leg is not anxiety based at all. It is usually caused from being overtired or overworked in a physical sense. The nuerons of the muscles are still firing to one level or another in a hyperactive way-you can notice it most when you are overtired. Some are helped by adding a dose of niacin or niacinamide a b vitimin around 100mg to their diet-others a nice physical workout 3x per week does the trick. There are vascular problems that can mimic this benign condition so if you have pain or numness coldness or severe cramping of the calf muscles have your doc check it out. Some folks are also helped by increased calcium and magnesium but ask a doc first. LM
My pdoc who has been diagnosed with this syndrome treats it by taking a very low dosage of Klonopin before bed, since that is when it is most bothersome. However I have heard that some people can gain relief through vitamins, but I really do not know much about that, since this is not something I have done much research into. Good Luck! d
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information.
I have Fibromyalgia and I also get the restless leg syndrome. Mine happens whenever it takes a notion. Hope that helps.. Buffie —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think everyone I know has that! (And they’re normies?) bw Hi group: has anyone ever heard of "restless leg syndrome" i have always thought this condition / experience was related to anxiety, however, now i have read that it is a separate "syndrome" RLS is defined as the need to constantly move a leg, it is usually apparent in the evening/night. It is also worse when forced to sit still as in riding in a car, airplane, or sitting in a cinema. Has anyone experienced this and/or been successfully treated for it (there is no cure). Thanks again group for your responses, but please do not email me, I use my email for work as well as private. Post your answers here on the newsgroup. Again, thank you for all your helpful information. — bw Before you buy.
No, it’s not just you. Me, too. In fact, I took it once with great success, stopped for a year, resumed it and couldn’t hold it down for more than a half hour. Switch meds. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, has anybody that’s taken Zoloft had a really upset stomach and messed up vision (by messed up I mean cloudy, darkened, or seeing spots)? Or is it just me?
well, that certainly sounds like a "bad" reaction to the med. I don’t know if it’s common, but I’d give your doc a call, just to be safe. There are lote of ADs out there, and while you may have a reaction to one, it’s pretty sure that you can find one that will be ok. Good luck!
did this just start when you were put on Zoloft? The upset stomach seems benign enough, but the vision changes probably warrant a call to the Dr…… yeah, all this started when I was put on Zoloft. I’ve never been on any AD before, so I don’t really know what to expect.
did this just start when you were put on Zoloft? The upset stomach seems benign enough, but the vision changes probably warrant a call to the Dr……
Hi, has anybody that’s taken Zoloft had a really upset stomach and messed up vision (by messed up I mean cloudy, darkened, or seeing spots)? Or is it just me?
If Zoloft works for you it will help with your symptoms. It gave me back a life.
for me zoloft did wonders. yes, it took away the urge to cry and took away the dark cloud that followed me around everywhere i went. my doctor took me off it for 6 months, thought i was "cured" but i am going back on it come monday. it gave me a feeling of well-being basically. maybe not to the extent that all the happy people in this world feel, but good enough for me to be able to cope with things a little. hope it all goes well for you. raelene.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it 
Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise
Demise: Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings?
It helps me enormously with both of those. Best, Diamant.
writes Thanks so much for your responses!! I am going to cut my coffee in half for now and see how it’s going in a month.
when I went on that medication, I wasn’t told to cut my caffeine intake at all, and didn’t. Can you tell me more about if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings?
they *should* go away in a while. if after a month or so you’re still all foggy and weepy and stuff, I’d go back to the doctor and ask for advice. Also what was the major difference you noticed? I hoping to end the disconnected feelings like when your sad but you can’t seem to "snap" back into focus on the things around you.. and the yelling..Oh Man, do I yell! I’m like a three year old throwing a tantrum!
the only difference I noticed was that I had to fight to be awake at all on it. But that’s not a normal reaction to it. — Laz Spashett "damaged people are dangerous, they know they can survive" "I can categorically say that you are not a bigger banana head." (Empire Records) * Please visit European Relief Aid and help our work with Romanian children * * http://www.gwenhwys.demon.co.uk/era/ *
Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise
When I first went on Zoloft I found that a little bit of coffee went a long way. It seemed to magnify the effects of coffee. That eventually subsided as I adjusted to the Zoloft and its stimulating effects diminished. k
Thanks so much for your responses!! I am going to cut my coffee in half for now and see how it’s going in a month. Can you tell me more about if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings? Also what was the major difference you noticed? I hoping to end the disconnected feelings like when your sad but you can’t seem to "snap" back into focus on the things around you.. and the yelling..Oh Man, do I yell! I’m like a three year old throwing a tantrum! — Demise
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise When I first went on Zoloft I found that a little bit of coffee went a long way. It seemed to magnify the effects of coffee. That eventually subsided as I adjusted to the Zoloft and its stimulating effects diminished. k
I’ve never heard the warnings about caffeine/alcohol. I believe all things in moderation. If you DO cut the caffeine, do it very slow, a cup at a time. I have given up caffeine for other reasons, and a slow approach helped me. as for whether or not zoloft can help with what you mentioned, well I dont have anything more useful to say than it is different with everybody. Fiddling with doses helps too. Both my boyfriend and my mom have taken zoloft quite successfully for years. on the other hand, it didn’t do a lot for me. Best of luck to you, Heather Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry? Or the "foggy", bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise
http://treefrog99.homestead.com/home.html
thusly: Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! I drank alcohol ON OCCASION while on Zoloft. You can, just be aware that the effect of the alcohol will be stronger. I also drank as much coffee as I wanted. I was on Zoloft for 2 1/2 or more years. It worked well. The first coule of weeks I had some stomach irritation and other minor side effects but they went away. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
See, it’s been just the opposite for me. I drink like a fucking fish, and i’ve been on Zoloft for 3 1/2 years. I can’t really tell a difference…when i went of Zoloft for a month, it seemed like it took less to get me drunk…go fig. Oh, and don’t get me started on caffeine. My blood type is Mt Dew. Viq (yeah, i’m kinda unhealthy) Viq (Vauxhall) Official ASD Flirt