Question:

Hello everybody,     I have just been prescribed a corticosteroid inhaler (Flovent) for mild asthma.  The pharmacist told me about thrush, and that I should be sure to rinse my mouth after I take my dose.  I later called the pharmacist back and asked if I got it, could I give it to someone else (through kissing) and the answer was yes.  So my question is, how common is it if you rinse, and how much of an inconvenience is it if you get it?  Has anyone ever given it to a boyfriend/girlfriend?  Is it easy to control with a fungal mouthwash?  I’m afraid to kiss my boyfriend before I find out more (I couldn’t find much on the web beyond the basic description, and the fact that you can get it even if you rinse well).  Of course I am going to put a call into my allergist, but he only has a clinic once a week or maybe less, so I don’t know when I will get a response.  PLEASE e-mail me about this if anyone has any input on the subject! Thanks!     Mary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everybody,     I have just been prescribed a corticosteroid inhaler (Flovent) for mild asthma.  The pharmacist told me about thrush, and that I should be sure to rinse my mouth after I take my dose.  I later called the pharmacist back and asked if I got it, could I give it to someone else (through kissing) and the answer was yes.  So my question is, how common is it if you rinse, and how much of an inconvenience is it if you get it?  Has anyone ever given it to a boyfriend/girlfriend?  Is it easy to control with a fungal mouthwash?  I’m afraid to kiss my boyfriend before I find out more (I couldn’t find much on the web beyond the basic description, and the fact that you can get it even if you rinse well).  Of course I am going to put a call into my allergist, but he only has a clinic once a week or maybe less, so I don’t know when I will get a response.  PLEASE e-mail me about this if anyone has any input on the subject! Thanks!     Mary

Mary, the germs that cause thrush are found in the normal flora of the mouth.  This means your bf already has them.  The reason that the inhalers can cause this problem is that they change the pH of the mouth.  If you rinse well [drink an entire 16 oz glass of water, and swish it around], you shouldn’t have a problem.  I have been using inhaled steroids for more than a decade, and have never gotten thrush. Chris Owens

Response:

Mary, I currently have Oral Thrush and have to fight it continuously.  I gargle very carefully and rinse after every use of Flovent, but still am prone to it.  I think it is very similar to women that are sensitive to vaginal yeast infections also.  One of the things I have found to really help is to eat yogurt everyday.  I also have a prescription for Mycelex lozenges that I can have filled whenever I need it, although I have found that if I rinse well and eat the yogurt I can usually keep the Thrush at bay without having to overuse the Mycelex. Chrystal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mary, the germs that cause thrush are found in the normal flora of the mouth.  This means your bf already has them.  The reason that the inhalers can cause this problem is that they change the pH of the mouth.  If you rinse well [drink an entire 16 oz glass of water, and swish it around], you shouldn’t have a problem.  I have been using inhaled steroids for more than a decade, and have never gotten thrush. Chris Owens

Response:

You may also want to try a spacer if you are not currently using one.  It is difficult to time inhalation of the drug with depressing or actuating the inhaler.  If you find you are hitting the back of your throat or tasting the medication when you use your inhaler you need to work on your technique.  A spacer helps you to get more of the medication to your airway instead of your mouth or throat. Don’t forget to shake the canister really well between each dose and wait 30sec to a minute between each puff. Hope this helps. Shane J. Varnum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary, I currently have Oral Thrush and have to fight it continuously.  I gargle very carefully and rinse after every use of Flovent, but still am prone to it.  I think it is very similar to women that are sensitive to vaginal yeast infections also.  One of the things I have found to really help is to eat yogurt everyday

Response:

Mary:  regarding Flovent and thrush.  Generally speaking, thrush from Flovent and other inhaled corticosteriods is kind of hard to get.  Simple mouth care is all that is really necessary.  For example, if you take Flovent 2x/day, take it first thing in the a.m., eat breakfast, brush teeth … take it before bedtime and brush teeth before sleeping.  If you’re on the road, drink a few sips of water, soda, breath mints, etc.  Yes, thrush is transmittable, avoid kissing and wash eating utensils thoroughly afterwards.  To get thrush in the first place, you must be immunocompromised, or not eating/drinking for days (say an unconscious patient in ICU).  I take Azmacort (another corticosteroid) and honestly the aftertaste is so bad,  it’s not hard to remember to use mouthwash/drink/eat/brush teeth!! An asthmatic health professional

Response:

I take Flovent and the only problems I have with it is it makes your throat sore if I dont rinse well. As far as passing thrush on to a boyfriend, I have never heard of that..

Response:

The use of a spacer, can reduce the risk of getting thrush.  It is also a good idea to use a spacer, so the meds get in your lungs, not on on your tongue, roof of your mouth etc…

Response:

rinsing your mouth out, with just water, after each inhaler treatment, will greatly reduce the odds of getting thrush. btw, white oak bark tea works great on killing thrush.  i am not usually a proponent of alternative styles of medicine, but it worked for me.

Response:

You should always rinse out your mouth after using an inhaler.  Especially if you are using any type of steroid inhalers.

The use of a spacer, can reduce the risk of getting thrush.  It is also a good idea to use a spacer, so the meds get in your lungs, not on on your tongue, roof of your mouth etc…

Response:

Question:

So why is it there is such a shortage?  Is it for all types of phentermine? I was told that the company stopped making the 30 mg dosage so people were getting 15mg and taking 2.  But that the 37.5 was not a problem to get.  Is this wrong? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply.

That doesn’t sound low at all for the wholesale price.  A 60 day supply goes for $17.76 at drugstore.com.

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give.

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. Needing to lose 30 pounds……. happygirl

Response:

Question:

Selling collection of approximately 3,000 to 3,500 vinyl 12" records. There is a mixture of Rap/Hip Hop, Dance, R&B, Soul, Techno, and Funk from the 80’s and 90’s.   Most are 12" singles, some full albums. Some have picture sleeves, some have generic or label covers. Conditions are mixed, most are in Near Mint condition.  There is no list, sorry.  $1500 bid + shipping.

Response:

Here’s the link: http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/43211597 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Selling collection of approximately 3,000 to 3,500 vinyl 12" records. There is a mixture of Rap/Hip Hop, Dance, R&B, Soul, Techno, and Funk from the 80’s and 90’s.   Most are 12" singles, some full albums. Some have picture sleeves, some have generic or label covers. Conditions are mixed, most are in Near Mint condition.  There is no list, sorry.  $1500 bid + shipping.

Response:

Question:

I have suffered with severe sinus infections for the last ten years. When I wake with a headache, I dread getting out of bed.  You are at tmes totally incapacitated with these.  Nothing ever helped.  Even antibiotics did not do the job at this point.  I read an article in a magazine about the benefits of drinking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in an 8 oz. glass of water each day.  I did more research on this and found that it is supposed to be very beneficial.  Knock on wood, since I started this regimen about 6 weeks ago, I have not had a serious sinus headache.  If I wake with the sinus stuffiness and drainage, the apple cider vinegar and water quickly relieve the condition.  Good luck to all who have this problem.  

Response:

How odd… i heard two tablespoons of warm apple cider vinegar was good for the arthristis…  wonder what else it is good for except maybe salad dressing?! -pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have suffered with severe sinus infections for the last ten years. When I wake with a headache, I dread getting out of bed.  You are at tmes totally incapacitated with these.  Nothing ever helped.  Even antibiotics did not do the job at this point.  I read an article in a magazine about the benefits of drinking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in an 8 oz. glass of water each day.  I did more research on this and found that it is supposed to be very beneficial.  Knock on wood, since I started this regimen about 6 weeks ago, I have not had a serious sinus headache.  If I wake with the sinus stuffiness and drainage, the apple cider vinegar and water quickly relieve the condition.  Good luck to all who have this problem.  

Response:

Hi Pam and everyone else: Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax. It, along with a good OTC saline solution and Nasalcrom is working wonders for me, but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it. Also thinking of going to allergist to solve the flare ups once and for all,:) Happy Holidays to all:) Coral. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes, felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. I went to a doctor a few days ago, and had Is this a Sinus Infection? This is what I had starting Dec1st.  Coughing earaches sore throat and sore chest.  Primary doctor put me on 6 days of antibiotics for 6 days.  A week later came back and went to allergist and he gave me a shot of cortisone and another double round of antibiotics and I am fine.  This is your difference where the primary doctor does not have time for all the patients.  A specialist will go a step further and cover all the bases.  I did have blaring of vision and dizziness.  See an allergist.  You woun’t be sorry. chest X ray Spirometry test EKG blood test. all were good and the doctor delcared me healthy, BUT he didnt check my nose for imflammation or give me a sinus Xray, my question is, could I have a sinus infection, is feeling dizzy a possible symptom with Sinus infectioned. — Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

Response:

Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it.

Zythromax is different than most antibioyics and 5 days is like taking 10 days of them.  If I understand correctly, it keeps working for days after you stop it.

Response:

I thank you very large. reble

me too Ellis…this has really helped over the last couple of days…thanks eric "the alternative to seeing things in black and white is to see them in full colour"

Response:

Hi Pam and everyone else: Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax. It, along with a good OTC saline solution and Nasalcrom is working wonders for me, but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it. Also thinking of going to allergist to solve the flare ups once and

for Sinus Infections in the winter are caused from being in the house where the air is too dry.  We are going to kick up our humidifier on the furnace and hope that will help.  Also using ocean spray in the nostrils should help.  I am finnally at the point that I am not coughing after three weeks and the visit to the allergist.  I still have a lot of days to finish on the antibiotics but I am finally starting to feel good.  However, I do find that the 24 hr Clairitn-d keeps me from sleeping so I am going to take the 12 hr.  Hope everyone else gets better.  I think I will also use the nasal chrome.  And hopefully all my problems will disappear for good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – all,:) Happy Holidays to all:) Coral. About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes, felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. I went to a doctor a few days ago, and had Is this a Sinus Infection? This is what I had starting Dec1st.  Coughing earaches sore throat and sore chest.  Primary doctor put me on 6 days of antibiotics for 6 days.  A week later came back and went to allergist and he gave me a shot of cortisone and another double round of antibiotics and I am fine.  This is your difference where the primary doctor does not have time for all the patients.  A specialist will go a step further and cover all the bases.  I did have blaring of vision and dizziness.  See an allergist.  You woun’t be sorry. chest X ray Spirometry test EKG blood test. all were good and the doctor delcared me healthy, BUT he didnt check my nose for imflammation or give me a sinus Xray, my question is, could I have a sinus infection, is feeling dizzy a possible symptom with Sinus infectioned. — Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

– Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes,  felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. —cut—-  The first thing to try for rhinitis is Nasalcrom (cromolyn) nasal spray, now OTC. It has virtually no side effects. I also recommend saline washes; the simple way is mix some warm salt water, inhale from palm of hand. Ellis — How much saline solution are you talking about? Is this essentially the same a using a saline nasal spary such as "Ocean" available OTC? reble OTC saline solution could be used, but it’s expensive. You could take a half a cup of warm water, sprinkle in some salt; pour into palm of one hand and inhale with one nostril, tip head back so it starts to run down throat, cough and spit out. Repeat on the other side, as is necessary to clear the mucus. If there is not enough or too much salt, there will be a burning sensation. Here’s a link with a recipe: http://www.aos-jax.com/nasal.htm Excerpt: "What is nasal irrigation? This is a procedure in which the nasal cavity is washed with a soothing solution. It can be done by using a bulb syringe or an electric dental device (such as Water Pik). Why would I need to do nasal irrigation? People with upper airway problems may have dry nasal membranes. Also, the mucous secretion is thick and the hairs are not able to move the mucus out. In some people, the mucus dries and forms crusts that interfere with sinus drainage. Crusting and poor drainage also causes headaches, infection, and bad odors. By using nose drops and nasal irrigation, this problem can be relieved and comfort restored. Irrigation with a Bulb Syringe or an Electric Dental Device Equipment needed: Bulb syringe or electric dental device (Water Pik) Irrigation tips (if using Water Pik) Saline solution: One gallon of boiled or distilled water 4 teaspoons of sea salt or canning salt 1 teaspoon of Arm & Hammer baking soda Solution may be warmed prior to irrigation. Always use caution if warming solution to avoid excessive heating. Have a thermometer handy to measure the temperature. Temperature should be 103

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a D.O. with caution as they do not have the same training as an M.D Margrove, I’ve heard or read that D.O.’s do have the same basic training as M.D.s, and take the same courses as medical students get in medical school. D.O.s are licensed to practice medicine in the state of California. Have you heard about any bad experiences with D.O.s? What is a D.O.? Philip (foreigner)

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Developed 130 years ago by physician A.T. Still, osteopathic medicine is emerging as one of the fastest growing healthcare professions in the U.S. Osteopathic medicine brings a unique philosophy to traditional medicine. With a strong emphasis on the inter-relationship of the body’s nerves, muscles, bones and organs, doctors of osteopathic medicine, or D.O.s, apply the philosophy of treating the whole person to the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease and injury. http://www.osteopathic.org — The charter is available at:

Question:

Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate

John,     Wow ….. What a break. Bet you never thought you’d say you were "lucky" to get PCa!! What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road?     Oh, my congrats on Mr. Happy. I hope to be posting the same info soon. Tom RRP 12/12/02

Response:

 What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

Yeah.  It WAS causing problems, and as I think back, it was leaking a bit of blood.  Eventually it would have been found without killing me first )   I’m glad that my trusty Urologist was following the instruction manual for dealing with PCa.  He said that he liked to do the CAT scan because once in a while he picked up a kidney cancer.  He found garbage in my case, but, as Ripley says in the first Alien Movie, "lucky-lucky-lucky." John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

oh … and the surgeon who put my gut back together said that the leiomyoma tumors are slow-growing.  It would take several years to get to the size of a golf-ball.  I guess that sucker was in there for 20-30 years getting bigger and bigger )  I was one of those ‘interesting cases.’ John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH

Well, I think it comes and goes…  That’s what I’ve read on the news group, and that seems to be the case with me.  But as the coach said, if you can run a 4 minute mile once, you can do it again.  Just keep practicing and don’t loose heart ) John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Response:

hi john – thanks for the progress report.  that’s pretty quick recovery for my happy.  i hope to be so lucky. it’s interesting, you mention that you had such a large prostate.  mine was about 30cc. but FELT like 65cc.  reminds you of the joke.  oh, it’s six on hand.  no, it’s five on one hand.  then when you get on the table and the doctor sticks his hand up there.  you know, it feels like six on one hand   ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional

Response:

  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists

as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and

onto a different anti-depressant. Happy to hear that both you and Mr. Happy are happy……as that side of things is not in my sphere of experience…..grin!! As to SSRI drugs, I know a lot about them because my daughter has a serotonin deficiency and has to take them.  There are roughly 30 different brands, of which Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Welbutrin, and Luvox are the more well known ones.  They are all newer derivatives of Prozac to my knowledge, but our good doctor on this group can better inform you. E. has been on Luvox (horrible fatigue), Welbutrin (stopped working) and now Effexor, which is working quite well as it attacks the problem from a different angle.  And each one worked for about 2 years, then she had to switch.  And every darn one of them has a lot of side effects!! So speak to your doctor…….or better yet, your pharmacist…..and see if there isn’t one that won’t be a ‘doggie downer’.  E. does not have that problem (G).  But as these SSRI drugs seem to be for chemical deficiencies, perhaps there is a totally different anti-depressant that will do in the meantime, that won’t interfere with Mr. Happy. Just my 2 Cdn. cents worth……and if you can manage without them…..go for it.  I refuse to take any myself at the moment and am doing OK without them.  If I need a pill temporarily, I will certainly take one though.  My rant on here last week got rid of a lot of it…..grin.   (thanks, people) The way I look at it is that ‘depression’ is a not an abnormal thing when life is tough, and unless it *really* interferes with your enjoyment of life, it will get better on its own.  I am not a doctor…..but on the flip side, I have seen the amazing difference in E’s life and also my sister’s……as she is battling the same Cheers…….Heather – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Way to go, John You just keep on smiling. We will know why. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21 —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

=—

Response:

it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant.

You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

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Response:

The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

Response:

I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and onto a different anti-depressant. Physical Specs:  Age 60, fairly good health, Gleason was about 6, 1Tc (or whatever the arragement of letters and numbers is) psa between 3.75 and just over 4.0 at time of discovery.  Large prostate at 65 cc, one core out of 12 positive (but with a prostate the size of a large lemon/small grapefruit, finding the CA in that haystack was luck).  Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate; was in the hospital for 6 days, and gained 20 pounds of water weight. With a grandfather who died of prostate cancer at age 65, early detection is a good thing in my case… My 20 cents. John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Question:

How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit"

Response:

Dan: I am 51, and while I stopped taking meds this fall, I was previously on Celexa 20 mg for 3 years and Paxil 20 mg and then 30 mg for one year. – Anne

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit"

I am 54 and am currently on *imipramine* and Xanax and they work well for me. In the first 18 years or so of my PD which started in 1968 when I was 20 I was only on a benzo. Around age 42 or so I needed to add an AD which was *clomipramine*, another TCA (and one that is much researched and  often prescribed in Europe while imipramine seems more of an American first choice TCA). At some point clomipramine seemed to *poop out* on me and I tried SSRI’s and even the RIMA *moclobemide* (always together with a benzo) which worked but I seem to respond just a bit better to TCA’s. In my case I don’t think any of this has anything to do with age. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit"

I’m 57, and have been on the TCA dothiepin (prothiaden) for some years – though recently discontinued it, and have felt no ill effect from that: therapy alone is now enough for me. Before the TCA, I was on Paxil, which didn’t agree with me – too many side effects. If I needed an AD again, I would go back to dothiepin. -David-

Response:

Hi Dan! I’m 57 and I’ve been on Paxil for about 4 – 5 years.  I only require 10 mg.  I seem to be very sensitive to meds, but I don’t know if it’s due to age or not.  Even that amount, combined with .5 mg Ativan twice a day makes me lethargic. Dot

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit" I am 54 and am currently on *imipramine* and Xanax and they work well for me. In the first 18 years or so of my PD which started in 1968 when I was 20 I was only on a benzo. Around age 42 or so I needed to add an AD which was *clomipramine*, another TCA (and one that is much researched and  often prescribed in Europe while imipramine seems more of an American first choice TCA). At some point clomipramine seemed to *poop out* on me and I tried SSRI’s and even the RIMA *moclobemide* (always together with a benzo) which worked but I seem to respond just a bit better to TCA’s. In my case I don’t think any of this has anything to do with age. Philip Thanks Philip, Is that "imipramine" the generic name or the other name form.

It’s the generic name. Most common brand name: *Tofranil*. I should buy a medical book to look these up.

You can find them on the net at Arthur’s excellent dictionary at http://www.anxiety-panic.com Is it taken daily and in what measurements does it come.

Here the smalles dosage is 25 mg (and I also mean the pill is so small that one can hardly cut it in half). In the US tabs 0f 10 mg are available. It is taken daily, like with all AD’s it’s a matter of finding out whether taking it in the AM or in the PM agrees best with you. I actually take part of it in the AM and part of it in the PM, don’t really remember why Like all TCA’s is has a large therapeutic window, from 75 mg to, say, 225 mg. Too high TCA doses are toxic though which angain is individual and can, if necessary, being measured by blood work. (Just as a side note, my regular MD, told me yesterday–that I sould ask my psycharist to switch me to another medicine, when I told him I was no lonfer taking celexa-because of excessive sleepiness).

If that sleepiness bothers you too much it may be a good idea. I am going to ask my Pdoc about it–but I’m not so sure he’ll put me on it anyway.

Another good choice may be Effexor, a newer med which, like TCA’s but in a somewhat different way, targets both serotonin and norepinephrine receptors. The different types of doctors–if they do one thing–it is protect their territory–when you ask for a med. change.

I have been rather lucky in this dept. as my pdoc actually agreed to my own choice of meds. Also you MAY be right about age making no difference, but if so–then it’s one of those very RARE things where age doesn’t count.

This is a big *YMMV*, I was strictly talking about myself. Medication for the elderly (but we’re not yet there when we are in our fifties or early sixties IMO) can sometimes be different (as in smaller benzo doses, for instance, or no TCA’s when having cardiovascular problems etc.etc.) Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you?

Zoloft for anxiety and depression, Ativan when needed, and Concerta to keep me peppy. Take care, Liz

Response:

So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. I’m 58 and started Zoloft for depression 10 years ago (when I was 48). My dose of Zoloft depends on whether I am depressed or not. I also take a TCA called desipramine to boost the effects of the Zoloft. Zoloft works well for me. I take Klonopin for anxiety/panic/agoraphobia. Chip

Thank you each and every one . As for zoloft–I just could not take that–it kept me awake. Celexa–the opposite. Basically–I can use xanax for attacks of anxiety–with no problem, but I would definately like to try something else. Good suggestions here–will he write me something different is the question.

Response:

I am posting this for LM being his post never showed up – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ubject: If You are at least 50 Years of age and on anti-depressants How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit"

the only time age is a factor in prescribing any medication is if the patient is geriatric in nature, or has some compromised abilities in metabolizing some types of drugs-usually the longer half life drugs like valium, klonopin and prozac etc… other then that profile of patient and drug are used as a methodology for prescribing LM ~*~I may not be perfectly beautiful, I may not be perfectly wise, I may not be perfectly obedient, but I am perfectly me~*~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many here are at least 50 years old? If you are what anti-depressant are you using and have you been using it since turning 50 years young? I know this probably doesn’t make much sense to lots of people in here–but I’m trying to find out if one medicine is prescribed more for older folks? We live in a world of numbers and age of course bing the biggest factor of all in the numbers "game". (Another example of numbers that I read is that 66% of all alcoholics who have quit drinking, have mental problems of some sort) Even car insurance companies use age in figuring their fees for insurance–another number. What is your income level–another number. So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here. Thanks Much and allways remember in all you do this one very important factor: "If it doesn’t fit, You MUST acquit" I am 54 and am currently on *imipramine* and Xanax and they work well for me. In the first 18 years or so of my PD which started in 1968 when I was 20 I was only on a benzo. Around age 42 or so I needed to add an AD which was *clomipramine*, another TCA (and one that is much researched and  often prescribed in Europe while imipramine seems more of an American first choice TCA). At some point clomipramine seemed to *poop out* on me and I tried SSRI’s and even the RIMA *moclobemide* (always together with a benzo) which worked but I seem to respond just a bit better to TCA’s. In my case I don’t think any of this has anything to do with age. Philip

Thanks Philip, Is that "imipramine" the generic name or the other name form. I should buy a medical book to look these up. Is it taken daily and in what measurements does it come. (Just as a side note, my regular MD, told me yesterday–that I sould ask my psycharist to switch me to another medicine, when I told him I was no lonfer taking celexa-because of excessive sleepiness). I am going to ask my Pdoc about it–but I’m not so sure he’ll put me on it anyway. The different types of doctors–if they do one thing–it is protect their territory–when you ask for a med. change. Also you MAY be right about age making no difference, but if so–then it’s one of those very RARE things where age doesn’t count. Thanks much for your comment.

Response:

So what I’m asking here is simple. 50 years of age and up: what anti-depressant are you taking and how is it working for you? Now if no one replies, then I know that I’m the oldie in here.

I’m 58 and started Zoloft for depression 10 years ago (when I was 48). My dose of Zoloft depends on whether I am depressed or not. I also take a TCA called desipramine to boost the effects of the Zoloft. Zoloft works well for me. I take Klonopin for anxiety/panic/agoraphobia. Chip

Response:

Question:

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is used in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the post here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the way it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the nature of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a group. We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but I’m not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support group is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m sure I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from personal experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing to say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Hello Jeff, I’m attempting to send the message below a second time. It never made it first time round. — Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is

used

in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the

post

here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the

way

it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the

nature

of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a

group.

We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but

I’m

not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support

group

is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m

sure

I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from

personal

experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing

to

say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Check the website  www.socialanxietyinstitute.org I find it extremly helpful. Consider joining a support group – mentioned in the web site. Jeff <jeff9…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Thanks Peter, Doug, and kicken for your thoughtful responses. I am going to get in touch with my doctor back in Canada, to see if he can help me out with some sort of letter of introduction. I had been a patient of his for several years, so there’s a good possibility he can help out.  Even the doctor in the US who tripled my dose of Parnate may be able to help out, and at least attest to the fact that I was doing okay.  I’m also going to write/phone local psychiatrists to determine if one of them has experience prescribing Parnate. Failing that, Peter mentioned a Seroxat/Paxil combo that I have not tried before, which sounds like it may be worth a try, though I am skeptical because of lack of success with anything other than a MAOI. The worst part is that the disease itself is a real hindrance to finding treatment, because my behavior is just so avoidant. Also, I always feel that it’s not taken seriously, like any of the more popular/trendy psychological disorders.  After all, I’m no threat to anyone, and I’m not experiencing any specific crisis.  At least now I have some concrete ideas on how to proceed – thanks all for the ideas on how to get out of this rut.   Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gd…@aug.com (Doug) wrote in message <news:3cbd5389.2725248@news.aug.com

… Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug

Response:

Hi Jeff, I’m also 31 and have social phobia and depression probably my whole life. I’ve been on almost every med and combo and other treatments and Parnate is the only one to give some relief also. I do get frustrated at times about some side-effects and that it might not be working enough, then I go off and see how much worse I get and go back on. I would try finding a Dr. in your area that has experience prescribing MAOI’s. It’s rule of thumb to go back to what has helped in the past. I hope you find a good Dr. willing to give it to you and hope you feel better. I’ve been on and off of Parnate for almost a decade. I hope to get better to all the time. Take care B jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote in message

<news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com

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I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug On 15 Apr 2002 22:50:24 -0700, jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Hello Jeff, I read through your message to the end. I stay away from this group now because of the cross posting. I’m sorry to tell you there are no simple answers for anyone like you or me suffering from Social Phobia. If there were this great newsgroup that has been decimated by cross posters wouldn’t exist. The only thing you can be certain of is that you will continue to suffer unless something great happens to you which it could. For me being able to leave my so called home where I live with my cruel parents would be the breakthrough for me but that can’t happen yet and may never happen. You say money isn’t a problem. In that case as bad as things may seem to be you could be like me living at home with almost no money at all. I’m not being dismissive here. I understand perfectly well that the solution for each of us that would give us the greatest relief is different for all of us and just because you can do what I can’t which is to get away from my parents in no way means that you aren’t suffering as much as I am. My advice to you is to keep trying. You say you are not suicidal and neither am I by the way then you will keep going forever hoping that things will sort themselves out somehow and maybe they will. The root cause of Social Phobia isn’t at all understood and naturally this is a major problem. I think I have a handle on it in my own case and this helps but the psychological battering I take from my parents 24/7 prevents me from making the breakthroughs I could now make if I was out on my own. I’m 48 by the way. Many people in the group(as it used to be) get great relif from drugs like Seroxat/Paxil but there was a post I saw at one point where the subject line was "Paxil is a Monster". So while drugs work for some people and in many cases transform their lives this is not always the case, indeed far from it. Satellites orbit the earth and perform many functions for us like providing us with a great telecommunications system but sadly the drugs available today are so primitive that they can hardly be described as therapeutic although drugs like anti-biotics are first class compounds. The same cannot be said for other drugs as you almost certainly know yourself. All I can say is you will keep going and always looking out for a way out of this savage disorder that annihilates it’s victims. I’m sorry I can’t help you. Have you tried Seroxat/Paxil? Some people in the group swear by it! Drugs would have no effect on me. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Question:

I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

I wish there were more people lurking around here…. I’m not sure, sorry!   try…..www.gerd-support.com/

Response:

I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

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I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

Response:

Yes, it was the tube and camera.  Actually, I was told by my ENT a while back, during an endoscopic exam, that my esophagus was extremely narrow. Since I had the EGD yesterday, I have noticed that it is easier for me to swallow my daily pills/vitamins, and I attribute that to the procedure. However, my reflux is only a trifle better.  After the procedure, I barely had a sore throat yesterday afternoon and evening, and today I’m right as rain.  I think that during the procedure the doctor must have opened up my esophagus some, and maybe fixed a few other things, because the severe burning/acid reflux did not bother me from dawn to dusk today.  For cripe sakes, I even got reflux from plain Quaker Oats oatmeal!!  Yesterday the GI MD told me to add more fiber to my diet, which may help any digestive problems I may have.  As I stated in my previous email, I won’t know the results of the EGD for one week.  I have to take this one day at a time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation….

Response:

Yes, I have the same symptoms, but my primary doc can’t explain the "lump" in my throat (actually, quite painful with trouble swallowing) that I’m having.  He treated me for GERD for several months, helped the heartburn but not the throat problem, so I’m off to a GI doc next week. Has your doc tried treating you for anxiety?  Mine did (with Xanax and Zoloft), and while it didn’t help me, it’s a common anxiety problem and perhaps a few weeks of trial meds could prove/disprove it for you? HTH, Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

Question:

Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Response:

Greg, Sounds like you may have vertigo, in which case you should  probably see a neurologist for testing.  Vertigo is an imbalance in your inner ear which causes you to feel off balance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

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It could also be a result of High Blood pressure.  That is usually the case with me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Response:

I, too, have been having problems with dizziness.  One resource that helped me a great deal was the Vestibular Disorders Association (VEDA).  I’ve forgotten what the internet address is, but it should be easy to find if you do a Net search.

Response:

Re: Re: Dizzyness anyone? Greg, Sounds like you may have vertigo, in which case you should  probably see a neurologist for testing.  Vertigo is an imbalance in your inner ear which causes you to feel off balance.

I wouldn’t go straight for the neurologist at this time, I would find a good ENT (ear nose and throat dr)  The neuro. should be reserved for last, Since any good ENT can probally diagnose the problem.                              Mzpepper Posted at:  Thorny’s BBS, Lawrence, Kansas USA    telnet://thorny.ml.org — Thanks to Freddie, I’m a Sexual Spastic. –Zappa.

Response:

Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Greg, It may well be the Zoloft, which can cause dizziness (SSRIs can cause just about anything).  You may want to talk to your doc about trying a different SSRI, Prozac would probably be the best choice, IMO.  There’s lots of complaints (more than with other SSRIs) about Paxil’s side effects (though some do very well on it), and Luvox is less effective than the other SSRIs for panic for quite a few (though, again, many do well on it). Best of luck to you! Matt (IMO, etc.)

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