Question:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours.  One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.  Two breathing treatments, some blood tests, a chest x-ray, and a dose of pred. later, I finally went home.  I can actually breathe properly now, although my chest is still tight.  When I was in the ER, I was at that state where you can’t breathe with your diaphram, and you only breathe with your chest muscles.  I never realized how tiring that can be until last night. And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.  If I had been home, it would have been an office visit, but still……I’m  on probably 3-5 times the medicine I was on last summer, and actually feel worse.  I was at the same peak flows last summer on 2 puffs of Vanceril twice a day.  Now I’m taking 2 puffs of Flovent 220 and 2-3 puffs of Serevent twice a day.  I have good relationships with both my pulmonologist and primary doctors, so when I tell them what’s going on we don’t have much discussion.  In fact, the ER doctor was thrilled to find out that I had my inhalers with me, had a prescription for prednisone, had a nebulizer, had a list of all my peak flows for the last year, and a written action plan.  When she started asking questions and I answered them all without too much effort, she said "you are probably the best thing to happen to me all night" – I knew what was going on, and that’s apparently a rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle. janet

Response:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours. One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.

I guess that it depends on what hospital you go to (and when).  When I last had to hit an ER I was literally disorentated by the speed which I was treated.  I had one nurse inserting an IV, another attaching the wires for the EKG, another checking my vitals (I knew I made the right decision when she reported: "Faint breath sounds left lung – no breath sounds right lung.") and the doctor hooking me up to oxygen.  (They also did a peakflow on me and I blew a 110 out of a personal best of 650). And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.

It happens.  I caught a mild cold then was unexpecdly stuck outside on a cold windy day.  Sometimes we just get caught in a bad situation. rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle.

We just do the best we can.  There are no easy answers and asthma can (and does) get better or worse for no easily discernable reason.

Response:

Question:

   So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m Snipped    Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways

Sounds like when I had Sinusitus.  At first I thought that my asthma was just getting worse and out of control.  Went to the Dr.  Even though I was not having any head pain, he said it was sinusitus.  The reason was because I coughed up yellow in the mornings that turned to clearish as the day went on and I was dizzy when I got up.  The coughing was worse in the morning.  Took some antibitics (zithromax) and it cleared up fast!   Hope you find what the problem is.  If your asthma is like mine, it is hard to tell the asthma from a cold or infection.   Good luck, Lynn*E

Response:

   I would like to thank everybody that gave me advice. I will be making an appointment with my respiratory specialist tomorrow. Thanks to those of you who responded to me privately and on this ng, I will be armed with some good questions. Appreciatively, Tina in Montreal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My daughter just started grade 1 on monday and I find myself having to walk her to and from school (9 blocks each way) 4 times a day. I don’t have a car, and I don’t know any neighbours who go to the same school.   So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m now having to take 4pffs 3-4x/day of my ventolin (I have the shakes like crazy). And even that seems to do little good.   Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways to reduce the coughing, especially at night?   Thanks in advance for any info. Tina in Montreal

Response:

   I would like to thank everybody that gave me advice. I will be making an appointment with my respiratory specialist tomorrow. Thanks to those of you who responded to me privately and on this ng, I will be armed with some good questions.

        hope you will share what you learn…<s

Response:

hope you will share what you learn…<s

   Don’t worry. I have trouble keeping my mouth shut when I get helpful news (I hope?). But in this case I’ll let my fingers do the talking. Tina in Montreal

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, yeah. I forgot to add (thanks to my distracting 3 yr old) that I am waking up very dizzy as well. It takes a while to get up because of it. Tina in Montreal   My daughter just started grade 1 on monday and I find myself having to walk her to and from school (9 blocks each way) 4 times a day. I don’t have a car, and I don’t know any neighbours who go to the same school.   So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m now having to take 4pffs 3-4x/day of my ventolin (I have the shakes like crazy). And even that seems to do little good.   Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways to reduce the coughing, especially at night? Tina in Montreal

You’re pretty well maxed out on your meds; Flovent 220, Serevent, and Ventolin. It sounds like all that exercise may be exacerbating your asthma. Have you contacted the school office about your problem? Isn’t there a school limousine for handicapped people or cases like yours? Could your daughter take her lunch to school to cut the trips down to 2/day. Some exercise is good for you. Some doctors might put you on a pulse dose of prednisone, but I try to avoid that. Other meds you could consider adding  are TheoDur (I take 200 mg x 2 ) and Singulair, the new antileukotriene pill. Have you been evaluated for Sinusitis or GERD (reflux); both of these conditions can worsen asthma and cause coughing. Ellis, not a doctor

Response:

  So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m now having to take 4pffs 3-4x/day of my ventolin (I have the shakes like crazy). And even that seems to do little good.   Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways to reduce the coughing, especially at night?

Make an appointment with your doctor ASAP.  Your asthma is out of control and you need to find out what the problem is and get it fixed. Hopefully, with the number of medications you are on, you are being treated by a specalist?

Response:

   My daughter just started grade 1 on monday and I find myself having to walk her to and from school (9 blocks each way) 4 times a day. I don’t have a car, and I don’t know any neighbours who go to the same school.    So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m now having to take 4pffs 3-4x/day of my ventolin (I have the shakes like crazy). And even that seems to do little good.    Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways to reduce the coughing, especially at night?    Thanks in advance for any info. Tina in Montreal

Response:

Oh, yeah. I forgot to add (thanks to my distracting 3 yr old) that I am waking up very dizzy as well. It takes a while to get up because of it.    Thanks again. Tina in Montreal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My daughter just started grade 1 on monday and I find myself having to walk her to and from school (9 blocks each way) 4 times a day. I don’t have a car, and I don’t know any neighbours who go to the same school.   So guess what? I can’t stop coughing! I hack quite a bit during the day, but at night I just can’t get to sleep at a decent time. I’m too busy coughing! On top of the serevent 2pffs 2X/day, ditto with flovent250, I’m now having to take 4pffs 3-4x/day of my ventolin (I have the shakes like crazy). And even that seems to do little good.   Any suggestions on what I can do? I know taking that much ventolin on top of the serevent couldn’t be that great for me,are there any other ways to reduce the coughing, especially at night?   Thanks in advance for any info. Tina in Montreal

Response:

Question:

Can anyone help me find out what wrong? In the past month, my lungs have worsened.  My peak flow used to be around 375, but now I can’t get it any higher than 325.  My chest feels tight constantly–it didn’t before.  I sometimes feel intense pain in my chest–I had never felt that before about a month ago.  I need to use my albuterol inhaler about 8 times per week and my neb about 4 times a week–much more meds are needed than ever before.  I’ve been tested and tested for allergies,  but I’m really not allergic to anything.  My doctor says my asthma’s no worse than before.  What’s causing this?

It sounds like your asthma is worse than before. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

Response:

Can anyone help me find out what wrong? In the past month, my lungs have worsened.  My peak flow used to be around 375, but now I can’t get it any higher than 325.  My chest feels tight constantly–it didn’t before.  I sometimes feel intense pain in my chest–I had never felt that before about a month ago.  I need to use my albuterol inhaler about 8 times per week and my neb about 4 times a week–much more meds are needed than ever before.  I’ve been tested and tested for allergies,  but I’m really not allergic to anything.  My doctor says my asthma’s no worse than before.  What’s causing this? -Lannieta

Since your peak flow is down and symptoms have increased, this indicates your asthma has worsened. Apparently you have nonallergic asthma. It sounds like you need to increase your inhaled steroid or/and switch to one of the newer stronger ones; Pulmicort or Flovent. Current asthma guidelines are to use an Action Plan approved by your doctor to adjust medications. See: http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/updates/patient.htm Patient Asthma Action Plans Ellis

Response:

Can anyone help me find out what wrong? In the past month, my lungs have worsened.  My peak flow used to be around 375, but now I can’t get it any higher than 325.  My chest feels tight constantly–it didn’t before.  I sometimes feel intense pain in my chest–I had never felt that before about a month ago.  I need to use my albuterol inhaler about 8 times per week and my neb about 4 times a week–much more meds are needed than ever before.  I’ve been tested and tested for allergies,  but I’m really not allergic to anything.  My doctor says my asthma’s no worse than before.  What’s causing this? -Lannieta

Response:

Last time I visited my doctor (6 days ago), he LOWERED my Azmacort (one of the older inhaled steroids).  I’m allergic to Pulmicort an Flovent (Flovent almost killed me), so I can’t take them. -Lannieta

Response:

Last time I visited my doctor (6 days ago), he LOWERED my Azmacort (one of the older inhaled steroids).  I’m allergic to Pulmicort an Flovent (Flovent almost killed me), so I can’t take them. -Lannieta

Azmacort is triamcinolone, a rather weak steroid inhaler. It seems to have more side effects than other steroids. I had facial edema from Azmacort, had to switch to Beclovent/Vanceril [beclomethasone]. What are your ‘allergic’ symptoms to Pulmicort and Flovent? Expecially Flovent? Ellis

Response:

Pulmicort reduced my peak flow to about 225 (my average then was about 375) and caused difficulty breathing enough to have an emergency visit to my regular asthma doc.  The Flovent caused me to stop breathing just after taking it–a friend had to call an ambulance and I stayed in the hospital for a day. -Lannieta

Response:

Question:

Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff:

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and

http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks!

Response:

Hey there Erik have you scraped her bottom of the barnacles and are going to ride her like a wild man this season?  The boat Erik the boat  ~grin~ Ronnie

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and

http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta… art=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

Response:

I am starting to have some headaches, but since I’m on steroids, Advair, Albuterol, and God knows how many other drugs at this moment, it’s hard to say it’s actually the Singulair.  I can say it is the best allergy medication I’ve ever taken.  I’ve never had days like this where my nose wasn’t constantly dripping.  If I find it’s the Singulair giving me headaches, I’m going to try a 5 mg dose to see if that helps. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?  

What kind of doctor?  I’d recommend a psychiatrist that also suffers from migraines.  I’ve been very fortunate to find some very empathetic pdocs over the last few years.  It’s a whole different world and there is all sorts of drugs available to them that aren’t available to a neurologist. As for me, I showed up at a psychiatrist after persuing every other option.  According to him, I was suffering from classic anxiety attacks that were bathing my brain in adrenalin.  Beta blockers worked, but not very well.  Based on reports from another poster in the group, I asked for seroquel and he went along with it.  It proved to be a silver bullet for me. Ins companies have been starting to question seroquel because it’s being perscribed basically for sleep.  It’s a fairly expensive sleep medication, but if you’re suffering from daily migraines and it works, it’s well worth the cost. My pdoc had samples that I used for the first month.  I’d explain your ins situation and just ask for these.  If it works, you’ll know the fight is worth it. Keep in mind that seroquel is a powerful med.  Even at the lowest dose of 25mg, I’d recommend quartering the pill and working up.  I felt very groggy, tired, and light headed, but it was much better then a daily chronic migraine.   It’s usually perscribed for extremely agitated psychotics, so it may have profound effect effect on you.  For my first dose of 25mg, I slept for 16 hrs straight of badly needed sleep.  I worked up to 300mg, but I’ve weaned back down to 150mg.  Any lower and I go back to migraine hell. Also, keep in mind that because your ins company denies perscription, you can still purchase the medication yourself.  I know this can be a financial burden, but for me, it pales compared to the cost of not being able to work.  My perscription for 15 300mg (that I cut in half) runs me about $124/month before my ins pays half.  Money well spent. Erik

Response:

The boat Erik the boat  ~grin~

I was thinking boat and then I had to read it again to pick up the other meaning. Cat not on the beach yet.  It needs to repairs.  Maybe this weekend if it doesn’t rain. Erik

Response:

Erik, How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?  My neuro is trying to get this for me, but the insurance company says it’s an anti psychotic drug and using it for migraine prevention or insomnia is an off label use and therefore they will not cover it.  They’ve asked for him to cite two studies where Seroquel was used for insomnia before they will approve the prescription.  The doctor told me on Monday that he will look for the information, but I got a call today from his nurse saying that the prior authorization was denied. Maybe I should be looking for studies for allergies or migraine? Karen in San Diego – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

Response:

I’ve never tried singulair,have tried Serquel {sp?} didnt help tho. I’ve tried benedril only helped allerigies,made go to sleep. MM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am starting to have some headaches, but since I’m on steroids, Advair, Albuterol, and God knows how many other drugs at this moment, it’s hard to say it’s actually the Singulair.  I can say it is the best allergy medication I’ve ever taken.  I’ve never had days like this where my nose wasn’t constantly dripping.  If I find it’s the Singulair giving me headaches, I’m going to try a 5 mg dose to see if that helps. Michelle I liked what it did for my allergies/sinus but after 3 wks of taking it i had problems with my gallbladder/liver.  I stopped taking it and everything went back to normal. tracey Here’s some stuff: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_specific_drugs_used_preven… Leukotriene-Antagonists. Leukotriene-antagonists are anti-inflammatory agents that blocks leukotrienes, powerful immune system factors that are important in causing airway constriction. They include zileuton (Ziflo), zafirlukast (Accolate), montelukast (Singulair), and pranlukast (Ultair, Onon). These agents are being used in asthma and some physicians have observed a reduction in migraine frequency in asthmatic patients who also had these headaches. In one study that investigated their use for migraine prevention, more than half of patients experienced a reduction in frequency of severe attacks. They are not approved by the FDA for migraines, however, nor are they routinely used by physicians. Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I’ll call around and see who has the Seroquel and for what price and since it would be without insurance I could fill it anywhere.

If 50mg worked for you, great!  Given that I was comatose for 16 hrs on my first dose, I was a little more cautious. Wow, that’s really good that it worked for you.  I’ve found the best prices at Sam’s and Walgreens.  It’s usually priced per dose, so you can buy fewer larger pills for a better deal.  I recommend a pill cutter. You could also get a pdoc to give you an exotic diagnosis that the ins company won’t challenge.  <hint  (Just consider life & health ins before you acquire such a label.) Erik

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard of people on here who have in combination with other medicatins…not sure which ones.  I’m taking it right now for my seasonal allergies and it works great for me.  We’ll see if it helps curb the migraines as well as I have chronic daily migraines. Michelle Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

I saw a post here some time ago from someone who was using it with, I think, Vioxx, a COX-2 inhibiter.  Vioxx is gone, but Celebrex is still available, and it might work with an ordinary NSAID, such as aspirin, ibuprofen, or naproxen.  I think I was able to find an article about Singulair alone on a MEDLINE search of montelukast (Singulair(R)) AND migraine.  Zaphirlukast (Accolate(R)) does about the same thing and a months worth is about 40% less expensive than Singulair, but is a twice-a-day dose schedule. The rationale presumably is that the combination blocks both parts of the chain from eicosenoic acid or arachidonic acid to two pro-inflammatory substances, leukotrienes or long-acting substance of anaphylaxis, an important intermediary in asthma, and prostaglandins.

Response:

Erik, Thanks for the info.  At first, I was given 20 25 mg pills as a sample and told to take one or two before bedtime.  I did this on a Friday night.  I woke up Saturday after eight glorious hours of sleep!  So, 50 mg should not have been my first dose, I should have titrated up, interesting, they didn’t tell me that. Second time, they only had four pill sample packs, so they gave me four pills.  I took two 25 mg pills the first night, then two again the second night.  The next night, sans seroquel, I took 30 mg of temazepam, but had break through awakenings throughout the night. Last night I took two 10 mg Ambien.  Surprise, got eight hours of sleep only interrupted once.  It seems like my brain gets used to a med, but after awhile I can go back to it for a short time.  Halcion did nothing, but Ambien is the same type of med.  What gives? I will pursue Seroquel through my insurance and if they still deny it after the doctor does his research, I may try a month or two of paying for it myself.  My neuro is a sleep specialist, you’d think they would trust him to prescribed off label without all the run around. I’ll call around and see who has the Seroquel and for what price and since it would be without insurance I could fill it anywhere. Thanks again. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How did the doctor prescribe the Seroquel?   What kind of doctor?  I’d recommend a psychiatrist that also suffers from migraines.  I’ve been very fortunate to find some very empathetic pdocs over the last few years.  It’s a whole different world and there is all sorts of drugs available to them that aren’t available to a neurologist. As for me, I showed up at a psychiatrist after persuing every other option.  According to him, I was suffering from classic anxiety attacks that were bathing my brain in adrenalin.  Beta blockers worked, but not very well.  Based on reports from another poster in the group, I asked for seroquel and he went along with it.  It proved to be a silver bullet for me. Ins companies have been starting to question seroquel because it’s being perscribed basically for sleep.  It’s a fairly expensive sleep medication, but if you’re suffering from daily migraines and it works, it’s well worth the cost. My pdoc had samples that I used for the first month.  I’d explain your ins situation and just ask for these.  If it works, you’ll know the fight is worth it. Keep in mind that seroquel is a powerful med.  Even at the lowest dose of 25mg, I’d recommend quartering the pill and working up.  I felt very groggy, tired, and light headed, but it was much better then a daily chronic migraine.   It’s usually perscribed for extremely agitated psychotics, so it may have profound effect effect on you.  For my first dose of 25mg, I slept for 16 hrs straight of badly needed sleep.  I worked up to 300mg, but I’ve weaned back down to 150mg.  Any lower and I go back to migraine hell. Also, keep in mind that because your ins company denies perscription, you can still purchase the medication yourself.  I know this can be a financial burden, but for me, it pales compared to the cost of not being able to work.  My perscription for 15 300mg (that I cut in half) runs me about $124/month before my ins pays half.  Money well spent. Erik

Response:

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

I’ve heard of people on here who have in combination with other medicatins…not sure which ones.  I’m taking it right now for my seasonal allergies and it works great for me.  We’ll see if it helps curb the migraines as well as I have chronic daily migraines. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta…. Thanks!

Response:

Has anybody hears about the use of Singulair tablets (normally used for hay fever and asthma) for the treatment of headaches.  From Google I got this Dr. Greene stuff http://www.drgreene.com/21_316.html and http://www.google.com/search?q=singulaire&sourceid=mozilla-search&sta….

I was going to try it, but then my insurance wouldn’t fill it.  By then I found a different drug (seroquel) that worked great. Erik

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Clear DayHey Debbie, Watch all that jumping around – you might hit your head on the ceiling and…… "get a headache" Good for you. I am sure we are all happy for you. Go Girl Dan   I had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one.   Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too.  I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful…   —   Debby H

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Clear DayI had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one. Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too.  I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful… — Debby H

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Clear DayDebby, This all started when patients at the New England Center for Headache noticed that those who started taking Singulair for their asthma had a reduction in their migraines. They did a very small study there, and found that Singulair was an effective preventive for some of the participants in their small study. There are clinical trials being conducted now. — Teri Robert your About Guide to Headaches http://headaches.about.com visit our forum at: http://headaches.about.com/mpboards.htm

I had my follow up visit to my neuro last week.  He finally decided that I needed preventative meds (originally he said that ONLY 3 headaches a month was not bad enough for them).  I had gotten to the point where I had almost daily headaches and had given up most days on treating them unless I couldn’t see to drive.  I have lived with these demons for 30+ years and some you live with and ignore.  ANYWAY, he had been to some drug rep meeting or something and had heard this news that people who had sinus problems and migraine were getting relief using Singulair daily.  Now, Singulair is actually an asthma prevention drug, so I don’t get the connection, but I have to tell you that for the first time in MONTHS I have not had a headache at all for almost an entire WEEK now!  HOORRAYYY!!  I know that my hormone headaches are only about a week or so away, and we will see how this treatment helps with those, but for now I am just so grateful that I have had some painfree days.  I am hoping also that the results from this will last for a while.  Most of the other treatments I have tried only lasted for a few months at best and then back to square one. Anyone else heard about this?  My mom is getting it from her doc to try too. I can actually jump up and down in joy and not be in pain.  It is wonderful… — Debby H

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Well, I am glad that they found it!  I know it might not last, most of the other treatments quit after a while, but I am just happy to (still) be under control.  I did get a doozy Monday morning after spending all day Sunday at the drag strip (had to cheer on my brother) in the sun with all that loud noise, but that was to be expected And it actually went away after only ONE dose of Maxalt. Still smiling…  the next test will be my hormone headache which is due in about a week, we will seeee… — Debby

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BTDTDW (been there done that didn’t work) — but no side effects for me, which was in itself a wonder. –Julianne

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Yes!  I tried it with no success, but my son tried it with wonderful results.  Didn’t completely get rid of his headaches,  but he had 80-90% improvement,and no side effects.  This is definitely worth trying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody tried Singulair as a migraine preventive?

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Anybody tried Singulair as a migraine preventive?

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Question:

I remember day 5 thru 10 to be the worst. day 15 (sweating profusely, brain shocks,couldn’t eat, or drink coffee, drank huge amounts of water) , it was had  already tapered down. Day 30 I had brain shocks maybe once every 2-3 days, but other than that I was pretty normal Week 8 I was completely back to normal. BTW, if you sample a fair amount of posts, you’ll find that they are all in their first 2 weeks of withdrawal. After that not many people post anymore. That is an encouraging sign.

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Uther, I hate to be harsh, but ultimately, it just doesn’t matter.

amen.  sux, tha truth. Take your new medicine and continue the taper.  It will end when it ends.  Sorry, but that’s it.

i hate bottom lines !  and unfortunately , Gary’s right.. you can’t rush a detox from that crap.

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I’ll keep telling my brain shocks they don’t matter and maybe they’ll get bored and go bother someone else

thanks a HEAP !  i gottem now.. oh holy.. i just read the rest of yer post, Uther.. i don’t think there’s any addictive pharmacological properties in Effexor, unless it’s that red dye. probly more mental. want some REAL withdrawals?  eat xanax for a few and cold turkey THAT… you will commune with your life, as flashed before your eyes…. 24/7, i promise you.   ~tanya

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll keep telling my brain shocks they don’t matter and maybe they’ll get bored and go bother someone else thanks a HEAP !  i gottem now.. oh holy.. i just read the rest of yer post, Uther.. i don’t think there’s any addictive pharmacological properties in Effexor, unless it’s that red dye. probly more mental. want some REAL withdrawals?  eat xanax for a few and cold turkey THAT… you will commune with your life, as flashed before your eyes…. 24/7, i promise you.   ~tanya

Unfortunately Effexor is associated with withdrawal problems that can be just as bad as Xanax withdrawal. A way to get around it is switch to Prozac and then taper off of Prozac which is much easier to stop. Philip

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The worst withdrawal I ever had was from quitting good old fashioned coffee cold turkey. I was in my 20’s and lived in a very rural area, was doing a pot of coffee a day. Big snowstorm showed up, out of coffee, no way to get to town to get my fix. Horrible headaches for 3 days, stomach cramps etc. I gave up coffee for awhile after that, went back to it, later decided to cut down, tapered slowly, no withdrawal. Now I do 1 mug of black coffee each morning, forgot it one morning and didn’t notice. I tapered xanax last summer, cut down by .25 mg every 3 days, no withdrawal, stopped it for nearly a month, then some serious shit happened in my life, a family member phoned screaming at me at 2 am  and I ran for the xanax bottle. Xanax not only keeps me sane, it keeps some people who have to be around me sane too. I don’t recommend quitting cold turkey for any substance. Withdrawals are hell. —-’Course – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – want some REAL withdrawals? eat xanax for a few and cold turkey THAT… you will commune with your life, as flashed before your eyes…. 24/7, i promise you. ~tanya —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll keep telling my brain shocks they don’t matter and maybe they’ll get bored and go bother someone else thanks a HEAP !  i gottem now.. oh holy.. i just read the rest of yer post, Uther.. i don’t think there’s any addictive pharmacological properties in Effexor, unless it’s that red dye. probly more mental. want some REAL withdrawals?  eat xanax for a few and cold turkey THAT… you will commune with your life, as flashed before your eyes…. 24/7, i promise you.   ~tanya Unfortunately Effexor is associated with withdrawal problems that can be just as bad as Xanax withdrawal. A way to get around it is switch to Prozac and then taper off of Prozac which is much easier to stop. Philip

I found withdrawing from Effexor extraordinarily difficult but necessary. Fortunately I had Xanax to help and the knowledge that I was starting a new AD. Despite the problems withdrawing, Effexor worked well for me for 5 years. Meryl

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I found withdrawing from Effexor extraordinarily difficult but necessary. Fortunately I had Xanax to help and the knowledge that I was starting a new AD. Despite the problems withdrawing, Effexor worked well for me for 5 years. Meryl

Hi Meryl, how come you had to quit after 5 years?  I found it tough enough after 4 weeks Uthur

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found withdrawing from Effexor extraordinarily difficult but necessary. Fortunately I had Xanax to help and the knowledge that I was starting a new AD. Despite the problems withdrawing, Effexor worked well for me for 5 years. Meryl Hi Meryl, how come you had to quit after 5 years?  I found it tough enough after 4 weeks Uthur

I developed adverse side effects. The worrying one was high blood pressure so I had to switch ADs. It was also pooping out as an antidepressant. I had climbed to 300 mg over the years but my depression was not controlled by the end. Meryl

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Uther, I hate to be harsh, but ultimately, it just doesn’t matter.  Take your new medicine and continue the taper.  It will end when it ends.  Sorry, but that’s it. Gary

Thanks Gary, your philosophical approach is refreshing.  I’ll keep telling my brain shocks they don’t matter and maybe they’ll get bored and go bother someone else Uthur – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy friends, I’m currently going through the less than enjoyable process of coming off this strange old drug.  Here’s my situation: I was on 75mg Effexor XL a day for 4 weeks in total. I went from that to 37.5mg for 14 days. Then I went to 37.5mg every second day for about 10 days. 3 days ago I took my last dose. I felt pretty bad last night and again today.  My questions are these – when do you think the withdrawal will peak, and how long before it is completely gone?  I came off Celexa a year ago a bit too abruptly and had withdrawal for 10 weeks – I hope I won’t go through that again! All opinions are welcome.  Thanks. Uthur

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Uther, I hate to be harsh, but ultimately, it just doesn’t matter.  Take your new medicine and continue the taper.  It will end when it ends.  Sorry, but that’s it. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy friends, I’m currently going through the less than enjoyable process of coming off this strange old drug.  Here’s my situation: I was on 75mg Effexor XL a day for 4 weeks in total. I went from that to 37.5mg for 14 days. Then I went to 37.5mg every second day for about 10 days. 3 days ago I took my last dose. I felt pretty bad last night and again today.  My questions are these – when do you think the withdrawal will peak, and how long before it is completely gone?  I came off Celexa a year ago a bit too abruptly and had withdrawal for 10 weeks – I hope I won’t go through that again! All opinions are welcome.  Thanks. Uthur

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Howdy friends, I’m currently going through the less than enjoyable process of coming off this strange old drug.  Here’s my situation: I was on 75mg Effexor XL a day for 4 weeks in total. I went from that to 37.5mg for 14 days. Then I went to 37.5mg every second day for about 10 days. 3 days ago I took my last dose. I felt pretty bad last night and again today.  My questions are these – when do you think the withdrawal will peak, and how long before it is completely gone?  I came off Celexa a year ago a bit too abruptly and had withdrawal for 10 weeks – I hope I won’t go through that again! All opinions are welcome.  Thanks. Uthur

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Question:

I watched the Primetime report on Paxil. We all know what sensationalist, alarmist crap many of these media reports are, but here’s what I DID get from the report: 1. I suspect, because it was claimed outright, that the makers of antidepressant drugs haven’t much of a clue how they work. The main evidence claimed was that the drug increases brain weight, so it MUST be getting to the brain. [So does a bullet.] 2. 20-40% of patients on Paxil have significant withdrawal symptoms. Over 100 adolescents committed suicide because of it. These numbers were in internal documents but denied to the public because they were "not statistically significant". . 3. Its main target in many adolescents is headaches . . . yet look at the nature of depression and consider the range of effects any drug must have to fight that many symptoms. SURELY any drug that does THAT many things to our MINDS has a strong potential to be much worse than the hot flashes it’s intended to mitigate in HT patients. 4. Some patients require "months" of agony to withdraw from Paxil. Guess what? IAD resumes in "months". The biggest message I came away with? I’m going to do a lot of reading before I even consider an antidepressant drug. And since the only "cure" I’ ve read about yet for hot flashes is antidepressants, and the "cure" is just a 50% reduction, and hot flashes are virtually guaranteed, I’m going to complete that reading before choosing HT. Now multiply that scenario by the number of SEs of HT, and realize that the fix for many of those SEs is another drug . . . with its own SEs, and that no drug company WILLINGLY admits to SEs. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested.

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I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Paxil is about the worst to get off because it has a very short half-life. http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1141/article10788.asp the 2nd page addresses the half-life issues. HTH Lori

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conviction: Now THAT would worry my wife. I’m irritable enough as it is; is Clarence — and will I become — grouchy because of ADT? Or has ADT made Clarence more pleasant than he was pre-PC by suppressing his emotions? I.P.

When I was a kid, I put my hand on the stove. It was HOT! I’m that sort of person who lives outside the edge. As for being pleasant at any time, my wife has called me "Grumpy" for as long as I can remember. Point is, I’m trying to get in a few days work every week to maintain my "Millionaire" status, branded on me by CentreLink, (our learned Welfare Organisation), 4 yrs ago after I’d been ratting trash cans for sustenance for 3 months due to a slight economic downturn. Believe me, if you get on ADT, you can kiss it all goodbye. I’m starting to feel I’ll end up like Jack Nicholson in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest". Androcur Tabs 50mg/day plus a shot of Lucrin quarterly. and revert to the ADT for another 12 months. What a blast!! — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

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I.P. wrote The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read. Those two points are possibly the most important of any when dealing with this bastard.

Oh . . . you mean the CANCER. I.P.

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The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read.

Those two points are possibly the most important of any when dealing with this bastard. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum

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Now THAT would worry my wife. I’m irritable enough as it is; is Clarence — and will I become — grouchy because of ADT? Or has ADT made Clarence more pleasant than he was pre-PC by suppressing his emotions? I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And a hearty ‘Good Morning’ to you too, Clarence. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD.

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Hi All Men don’t have hot flashes, they have power surges!! Jamie

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Hi Sandi…. I know all about the withdrawal symptoms of these SSRI drugs simply because my daughter and my sister suffer from seratonin deficiency and are on them. One on Welbutrin (Zyban) and the other on Effexor. Our ditz of a family doctor told my daughter to just cut them out in two days.  She couldn’t get off the couch due to dizzy spells and nausea!!  I phoned the pharmacy and they were horrified.  Thanks to them, she cut them down VERY gradually and was OK.  It would have happened to my sister as well, had I not gone thru this with my daughter, and warned her. Who should we blame??  Doctors who do not read the literature and drug companies who do not disclose all the details.  All of these drugs are Prozac derivatives (some 30 of them, I believe) and they do have major withdrawal problems.  Paxil has been found to cause suicidal tendencies……which it is supposed to be eliminating. These anti-depressants are very powerful drugs, so use them as your pharmacist directs you to…..they seem to know more.  And check to see if there are any cross-medication problems as well. And thanks for the info on Primetime….I will look for it tonight. Heather

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Response:

The effects you list, side or not, are but a very small part of the menu, and don’t address the severity some people encounter with some effects or the relative commonality of various effects. Some effects take months to show up, some take months to disappear after ADT cessation, and some can be permanent. And even the benefits of ADT are debatable, regardless of the SEs. If I become convinced I can try ADT for a month or two and realisticaly assess its impacts without being committed to long-term impacts, I’ll jump on the bandwagon. My research so far doesn’t strongly support that approach. I consider the distinction between intended effects and SEs vital because generally, intended effects address benefit and SEs address harm. If a treatment doesn’t work, SEs are irrelevant because I’m not trying it. And many trials study only the intended effect — prolonged heartbeat — without considering QOL. IMO, that renders some studies almost moot. The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read. I took several pages of typewritten questions to each of the several doctors I consulted about my PC. Every doctor was very pleased and impressed at this, and some said they wished every patient would do it. I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case? I imagine most people relatively recently diagnosed obsess of the issues of ‘life as I knew it’ vs. ‘life as it will be or may be.’ But, what you really need to concern yourself with is the effects of the drugs.  Calling some effects "intended" and the others as "side" effects is, IMHO, a distraction.  Everything you put in your body has effects.  Every place you put your body has effects.  Every position you put your body in and the duration you keep your body in that position has effects.  Every day of your life, you make decisions on thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of permutations that have effects on your body.  It is silly to consider them intended and side effects.  They are just plane effects.  You do this, and that, that and that happens.  Some effects may be positive.  They may be negative.  They may be positive now and negative later.  Or visa versa. They may be positive and negative concurrently. What you really have to do is list the effects and possible effects of ADT. They are; 1. extended life.  2. temporary impotence.  3. temporary disinterest.  They may also be; 1. permanent impotence, 2. emotional instability, 3. bone mass loss, 4. hot flashes. Then, decide if some of the effects are worth it in lieu of the others. But, with ADT, you have this great option.  Try it for 30, 60, 90 days. If you don’t like it, send it back… no questions asked.

Response:

And a hearty ‘Good Morning’ to you too, Clarence. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD. The other day I was in a bad mood, so I downed a couple of Amitryptiline (Endep 25) and they damn near killed me. Apart from my being useless for a day and a half, all my Osteo-Arthritis pains magnified, plus a few new ones emerged. I phoned into the Rad Oncology Dept, but was only able to get a nurse, who advised me to CEASE them immediately, and see my GP about some alternative. — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

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I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.

I wonder who is accused of downplaying the withdrawal symptoms.  My wife’s doctor was very frank about the danger of self-unmedicating with it.  To be sure, he called me to tell me, just in case my wife was in a poor state of mind if and when she decided to do it.

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  Each time I’ve seen that yet another antidepressant fixes hot flashes, several thoughts spring to mind: 1. Depression is serious stuff, and antidepressants are serious meds, so any problem requiring antidepressants must be pretty serious.

  (snip) IP is worried about very little. Maybe he should pop a pill The dosage of antidepressant that is required for hot flash control is far less than the therapeutic dosage for depression. Frex, I was prescribed Effexor, an antidepressant, to control the hot flashes caused by Zoladex. The prescription called for a beginning dosage of just 37.5mg. Something similar exists with Proscar, which is used to treat BPH and PCa, and Propecia, which is used to treat male-pattern baldness. Both are finasteride, but the Propecia dosage is far less than Proscar. As it happens, as I reported elsewhere in the NG, I recently switched from Zoladex to Lupron and have far fewer and milder hot flashes so I elected not to proceed with the Effexor. A SE of that decision is that I have saved mucho dinero; Effexor is expensive. Regards, Steve J

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10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case?

I imagine most people relatively recently diagnosed obsess of the issues of ‘life as I knew it’ vs. ‘life as it will be or may be.’ But, what you really need to concern yourself with is the effects of the drugs.  Calling some effects "intended" and the others as "side" effects is, IMHO, a distraction.  Everything you put in your body has effects.  Every place you put your body has effects.  Every position you put your body in and the duration you keep your body in that position has effects.  Every day of your life, you make decisions on thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of permutations that have effects on your body.  It is silly to consider them intended and side effects.  They are just plane effects.  You do this, and that, that and that happens.  Some effects may be positive.  They may be negative.  They may be positive now and negative later.  Or visa versa. They may be positive and negative concurrently. What you really have to do is list the effects and possible effects of ADT. They are; 1. extended life.  2. temporary impotence.  3. temporary disinterest.  They may also be; 1. permanent impotence, 2. emotional instability, 3. bone mass loss, 4. hot flashes. Then, decide if some of the effects are worth it in lieu of the others. But, with ADT, you have this great option.  Try it for 30, 60, 90 days.  If you don’t like it, send it back… no questions asked.

Response:

I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Response:

up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD. The other day I was in a bad mood, so I downed a couple of Amitryptiline (Endep 25) and they damn near killed me. Apart from my being useless for a day and a half, all my Osteo-Arthritis pains magnified, plus a few new ones emerged. I phoned into the Rad Oncology Dept, but was only able to get a nurse, who advised me to CEASE them immediately, and see my GP about some alternative. — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

Response:

Each time I’ve seen that yet another antidepressant fixes hot flashes, several thoughts spring to mind: 1. Depression is serious stuff, and antidepressants are serious meds, so any problem requiring antidepressants must be pretty serious. 2. Any med that can combat a serious problem must have some pretty serious deliberate effects. If their purpose is to reduce depression, then reducing hot flashes is by definition a SE of the antidepressant. Jeez . . . what are its INTENDED effects? i.e., What changes do they make in my body to achieve their INTENDED effect of reducing depression . . . and obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others? 3. Do I want to add those intended effects to the SEs of my meds, which, after all, are the reasons I need antidepressants in the first place? 4. What are the other SEs of the antidepressant, besides reducing the number and severity of hot flashes? 5. How many of the antidepressant’s SEs need additional meds to combat THEM? 6. Worse yet, look up the SEs of these antidepressants. Some of the lists run into scores of effects, many of them serious. 7. When do we stop ingesting exponentially increasing numbers of meds and just get on with our lives and hope we beat the statistics? 8. Who sez the statistics aren’t skewed by all the freaking cancatenated SE meds? 9. And in case that list of questions didn’t give me pause, ask Google about the side effects of Paxil/Prozac . . . and stand back. 10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case? My wife prefers I.P. Freely. That’s why she married him. And I can think of 647 things more fun to do than sitting here researching medications and SEs. But in case I’m overreacting, I’ll keep reading. The problem with THAT plan is that as I expand my search into an exponentially increasing fan of links, I find more support than opposition to my tentative plan . . . such as the end of this Mayo Clinic reference itself. But maybe that’s a good thing, because the confusion factor shrinks with every new report like this one. Following this Mayo Clinic study leads to scores — hundreds? — of related studies . . . most of them spiralling towards the same dilemma: do we want to maximize our heartbeats with the certainty of SEs, or maximize our QOL with the possibility of many SE-free years, then when (IF?) the PC hits the fan we decide an optimal course based on data at that point? Hell, I just spent half an hour on this, when I couldda been actually WATCHING West Wing . . . or maybe making out with my wife. Now multiply that dilemma by a thousand and add 645 other activities. I suspect that many of us would LOSE free time, not gain it, by opting for HT and its complications. I’ve already spent most of a month researching it, and I haven’t even had one shot or one symptom or one SE yet. I.P.

Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report.  An antidepressant medication is an effective treatment to reduce hot flashes in men who are taking hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report in the October issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings. The five-week study followed 18 men who completed the therapy, illustrating that their hot flashes decreased from 6.2 per day to 2.5 per day. Hot flash scores, the frequency multiplied by the severity, decreased in the same period from 10.6 per day to 3 per day. "Newer antidepressants have been proven effective in reducing hot flashes in women but have not been studied in men," says Charles Loprinzi, M.D., Mayo Clinic Division of Medical Oncology and the lead author of the study. "Although hot flashes in men with prostate cancer are well documented," he said, "their treatment has not received as much attention." Some doctors treat hot flashes in men receiving hormonal therapy with a short course of a secondary hormone such as Megestrol acetate. But the Mayo team now expresses some "concern" about these secondary treatments (see below). The study looked at men receiving androgen ablation therapy, also known as hormonal deprivation therapy, or hormonal blockade, which is a well-established treatment for various stages of prostate cancer. The antidepressant tested, paroxetine (Paxil), has been used to treat mental depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others. A placebo-controlled trial had previously demonstrated that paroxetine reduced hot flashes in women. The study was conducted between August 2001 and October 2003. Men eligible for the study had to have a history of prostate cancer for which they were receiving androgen ablation therapy. Previous Mayo studies suggested that venlafaxine (Effexor) is effective to treat hot flashes in men undergoing hormonal therapy and that citalopram (Celexa) reduces such hot flashes in women. A commoner, older treatment for hot flashes is Megace (Megestrol acetate). Megace is a progestogen, a man-made form of the female hormone progesterone. Megace is sometimes used to treat prostate cancer and when given with newer hormone blockade drugs like Lupron or Zoladex it reduces hot flashes by up to 90 per cent, according to a Mayo study in 2002. But there have been reports of men whose prostate cancer progressed while taking Megace, In  1999 Oliver Sartor M.D. at Louisiana State University Medical Center, reported "a case in which megestrol acetate (20 mg bid) was administered for symptomatic control of hot flashes in a medically castrated patient with prostate cancer. The patient was subsequently noted to have a rising prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level. Megestrol acetate administration was discontinued, and the PSA level declined. These data indicate that even the low doses of megestrol acetate used for control of hot flashes can be associated with PSA increases in some patients with prostate cancer." This may be especially a concern because, as another study points out, patients whose doctors prescribed Megace for hot flashes have been found to stay on this treatment for three years or more. The authors of the current Mayo study say this therapy "may affect prostate cancer growth and/or cause significant side effects." Patients who do not wish to take an antidepressant for hot flashes need not feel like mavericks. Most patients who experience hot flashes are not interested in adding a medication to suppress them. In a presentation at ASCO in 2001, a team from University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center said that although over 70 per cent of prostate cancer patients they studied complained of "a little" to "some" discomfort during hot flashes, "of those not receiving treatment, fewer than 50 per cent would consider taking medication to treat them." Hot flashes are "a significant side-effect of hormonal treatment," this team concluded, and drugs are available to manage the flashes, but "a significant percentage of patients do not find it as an acceptable option. Therefore, alternative support/educational interventions should also be considered to help patients better understand manage and cope with this treatment side effect. " Others who worked with Dr. Loprinzi on the Paxil study are: Debra Barton, R.N., Ph.D.; Lisa Carpenter; Jeff Sloan, Ph.D.; Paul Novotny; Matthew Gettman, M.D.; and Bradley Christensen, all from Mayo Clinic. knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Response:

Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report.  An antidepressant medication is an effective treatment to reduce hot flashes in men who are taking hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report in the October issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings. The five-week study followed 18 men who completed the therapy, illustrating that their hot flashes decreased from 6.2 per day to 2.5 per day. Hot flash scores, the frequency multiplied by the severity, decreased in the same period from 10.6 per day to 3 per day. "Newer antidepressants have been proven effective in reducing hot flashes in women but have not been studied in men," says Charles Loprinzi, M.D., Mayo Clinic Division of Medical Oncology and the lead author of the study. "Although hot flashes in men with prostate cancer are well documented," he said, "their treatment has not received as much attention." Some doctors treat hot flashes in men receiving hormonal therapy with a short course of a secondary hormone such as Megestrol acetate. But the Mayo team now expresses some "concern" about these secondary treatments (see below). The study looked at men receiving androgen ablation therapy, also known as hormonal deprivation therapy, or hormonal blockade, which is a well-established treatment for various stages of prostate cancer. The antidepressant tested, paroxetine (Paxil), has been used to treat mental depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others. A placebo-controlled trial had previously demonstrated that paroxetine reduced hot flashes in women. The study was conducted between August 2001 and October 2003. Men eligible for the study had to have a history of prostate cancer for which they were receiving androgen ablation therapy. Previous Mayo studies suggested that venlafaxine (Effexor) is effective to treat hot flashes in men undergoing hormonal therapy and that citalopram (Celexa) reduces such hot flashes in women. A commoner, older treatment for hot flashes is Megace (Megestrol acetate). Megace is a progestogen, a man-made form of the female hormone progesterone. Megace is sometimes used to treat prostate cancer and when given with newer hormone blockade drugs like Lupron or Zoladex it reduces hot flashes by up to 90 per cent, according to a Mayo study in 2002. But there have been reports of men whose prostate cancer progressed while taking Megace, In  1999 Oliver Sartor M.D. at Louisiana State University Medical Center, reported "a case in which megestrol acetate (20 mg bid) was administered for symptomatic control of hot flashes in a medically castrated patient with prostate cancer. The patient was subsequently noted to have a rising prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level. Megestrol acetate administration was discontinued, and the PSA level declined. These data indicate that even the low doses of megestrol acetate used for control of hot flashes can be associated with PSA increases in some patients with prostate cancer." This may be especially a concern because, as another study points out, patients whose doctors prescribed Megace for hot flashes have been found to stay on this treatment for three years or more. The authors of the current Mayo study say this therapy "may affect prostate cancer growth and/or cause significant side effects." Patients who do not wish to take an antidepressant for hot flashes need not feel like mavericks. Most patients who experience hot flashes are not interested in adding a medication to suppress them. In a presentation at ASCO in 2001, a team from University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center said that although over 70 per cent of prostate cancer patients they studied complained of "a little" to "some" discomfort during hot flashes, "of those not receiving treatment, fewer than 50 per cent would consider taking medication to treat them." Hot flashes are "a significant side-effect of hormonal treatment," this team concluded, and drugs are available to manage the flashes, but "a significant percentage of patients do not find it as an acceptable option. Therefore, alternative support/educational interventions should also be considered to help patients better understand manage and cope with this treatment side effect. "

Question:

Hi Stan and Teilhard I stopped taking one type of medication because my husband said it didn’t make me better. he said I was better on the previous type. So i stopped for 3 days to switchover. but i didn’t cut down first. that’s where i made the mistake. i’m already in therapy and have been for a year. i don’t know if it helps. i’ve been  up and down throughout the year and this time i’m back to where i was when i started the therapy. no perhaps this time i’m worse. this time i want to die. i haven’t felt this bad before. i’ve told my son that i’m very sick and may not get better, so he’s prepared. i can only see this as the way to free the pain. otherwise it will always be with   me here. sue

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like the medication has tranquilized you quite a bit. Maybe you need time to get stabilized. What has been happening with you? Why have you stopped the medication? Oh, by the way, welcome to ASD. Stan hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away. Remove "JUNK" for my valid address.

Response:

hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away.

Welcome to ASD, Sue. The only think I can recommend is looking for professional help. Seems you have seen a pdoc by your reference to medications. Why did you stop taking them? I hope you didn’t do it without supervision, that might be the cause you are feeling bad now. The other thing is therapy, but only you know whether you need it. Good luck to you, and feel free to post anything you like. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email.

Response:

Sounds like the medication has tranquilized you quite a bit. Maybe you need time to get stabilized. What has been happening with you? Why have you stopped the medication? Oh, by the way, welcome to ASD. Stan hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away.

Remove "JUNK" for my valid address.

Response:

hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away.

Response:

Hi Stan and Teilhard I stopped taking one type of medication because my husband said it didn’t make me better. he said I was better on the previous type. So i stopped for 3 days to switchover. but i didn’t cut down first. that’s where i made the mistake. i’m already in therapy and have been for a year. i don’t know if it helps. i’ve been  up and down throughout the year and this time i’m back to where i was when i started the therapy. no perhaps this time i’m worse. this time i want to die. i haven’t felt this bad before. i’ve told my son that i’m very sick and may not get better, so he’s prepared. i can only see this as the way to free the pain. otherwise it will always be with   me here. sue

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like the medication has tranquilized you quite a bit. Maybe you need time to get stabilized. What has been happening with you? Why have you stopped the medication? Oh, by the way, welcome to ASD. Stan hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away. Remove "JUNK" for my valid address.

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Response:

Sounds like the medication has tranquilized you quite a bit. Maybe you need time to get stabilized. What has been happening with you? Why have you stopped the medication? Oh, by the way, welcome to ASD. Stan hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away.

Remove "JUNK" for my valid address. X-No-Archive: yes Newsgroups: microsoft.test,alt.flame.niggers,alt.support.depression NNTP-Posting-Host: w088.z064003087.lax-ca.dsl.cnc.net 64.3.87.88 Lines: 1         Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet. se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!msrtrans1!msrnewsc1!cppssb bsa01.microsoft.com!tkmsftngp01!tkmsftngp04!u&n&a&c&anceller Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40722255 This message was cancelled from within The Unacanceller’s glorious new software, Lotus 1-2-3 For Rogue Cancellers.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – inscribed: hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. hi Sue, and welcome to asd. did your doctor tell you to go off the medication? doctors are really the only ones who should be deciding what medication works best for you. sometimes coming off a med too quickly can have pretty rotten side effects. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. what are you taking? i’m on Zoloft (sertraline), but have been on several different meds. it typically takes about six weeks or so before one notices an effect from the medications and if they’re working or not. sk

Hi SunKitten, are you finding the Zoloft works for you? my son was on zoloft but we have weaned him off it. It’s been 6 weeks now. he goes back to school this week, so this will be the big test to see if he’s going to cope without medication. He’s only 7, so we don’t want him on medication if he can do without it. Sue

Response:

hi i’m Sue.

snip Hello Sue; welcome to ASD.  Make yourself at home ) — —  Whiskers

Response:

hi i’m Sue. snip Hello Sue; welcome to ASD.  Make yourself at home ) — —  Whiskers

Thanks Whiskers

Response:

discoursed thusly: I stopped taking one type of medication because my husband said it didn’t make me better. he said I was better on the previous type. So i stopped for 3 days to switchover. but i didn’t cut down first. that’s where i made the mistake. No, Sue, that’s not where you made your mistake. You made your mistake when you let your husband make your medication decisions for you. Is your husband also your medical doctor?

no, but he is right. i can see that now. i have thought back over the last few months while taking a new medication, and i really have been worse than previously. Because if he isn’t, then the only person who should be telling you what medication is helping you, is YOU. I get the feeling that your husband is also the one who taught you to refer to your depression as "madness", as you called it when in your first post you asked when does the madness stop. Depression is not madness, it’s a disease that mingles physiological problems with psychological problems. Most people respond best to a mix of the *right* medication and the *right* therapy. But it has the be the meds and therapist that are right for YOU.

I don’t know if I’ve found the right therapist. I’ve been to so many before, and this is the first one i’ve stuck with. Usually i stop going after a couple of sessions. Have you talked with your medical doctor at all about changing your medication? Have you discussed the different types of medication that are available in Australia, and decided with the advice of your doctor what you should be taking?

yes, my psychiatrist has been in contact with me over the weekend.  I’ve tried many different tablets. sometimes they work for awhile but then dont seem as effective. Which meds are you taking, which meds were you taking, and never mind what your husband says makes you better, how did you feel while you were taking them?

I’ve just gone back onto Aropax (Paroxetine). I was on Efexor-xr. Folks in asd will gladly give you all the support and understanding (and information about our own depression experiences) that we can. But if your husband needs depression support, he’ll have to write his own posts, about his own depression issues. We are here to help you with *your* problems. Welcome to asd.

Thank you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tara J. Ballance Montreal, Canada

Response:

hi i’m Sue. i’m horribly depressed. the last 3 days i thought would be the end of me. but apparently coming off medication too quickly can have bad effects on you. i’m on different medication now. i feel lifeless,i look around my house and things are not familiar anymore. they look dull. the sky looks dull, my family look dull.all day spent in bed just lying there, not even sleeping, just lying thinking of what? i don’t even know. when does the madness go away.

Welcome to ASD, Sue. The only think I can recommend is looking for professional help. Seems you have seen a pdoc by your reference to medications. Why did you stop taking them? I hope you didn’t do it without supervision, that might be the cause you are feeling bad now. The other thing is therapy, but only you know whether you need it. Good luck to you, and feel free to post anything you like. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email. X-No-Archive: yes Newsgroups: microsoft.test,alt.flame.niggers,alt.support.depression NNTP-Posting-Host: w088.z064003087.lax-ca.dsl.cnc.net 64.3.87.88 Lines: 1         Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news.belwue.de!ne ws-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu! news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanj ose!sjc-feed.news.verio.net!sea-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!msrnewsc 1!cppssbbsa01.microsoft.com!tkmsftngp01!tkmsftngp04!u&n&a&c&anceller Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40727072 This message was cancelled from within The Unacanceller’s glorious new software, Lotus 1-2-3 For Rogue Cancellers.

Response:

hi i’m Sue. snip Hello Sue; welcome to ASD.  Make yourself at home ) — —  Whiskers

Thanks Whiskers X-No-Archive: yes Newsgroups: microsoft.test,alt.flame.niggers,alt.support.depression NNTP-Posting-Host: w088.z064003087.lax-ca.dsl.cnc.net 64.3.87.88 Lines: 1         Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news.belwue.de!ne wsfeed.arcor-online.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.stealth.n et!msrtrans1!msrnewsc1!cppssbbsa01.microsoft.com!tkmsftngp01!tkmsftngp03!u& n&a&c&anceller Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40726147 This message was cancelled from within The Unacanceller’s glorious new software, Lotus 1-2-3 For Rogue Cancellers.

Response:

hi i’m Sue.

snip Hello Sue; welcome to ASD.  Make yourself at home ) — —  Whiskers X-No-Archive: yes Newsgroups: microsoft.test,alt.flame.niggers,alt.support.depression NNTP-Posting-Host: w088.z064003087.lax-ca.dsl.cnc.net 64.3.87.88 Lines: 1         Path: news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.fh-hannover.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu !out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!sjc-feed.news.ve rio.net!sea-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!msrnewsc1!cppssbbsa01.micros oft.com!tkmsftngp01!tkmsftngp03!u&n&a&c&anceller Xref: news.uni-stuttgart.de control:40719458 This message was cancelled from within The Unacanceller’s glorious new software, Lotus 1-2-3 For Rogue Cancellers.

Response:

I’ve just gone back onto Aropax (Paroxetine). I was on Efexor-xr.

Gosh. How long had you been taking Effexor? It is one of the anti-depressants which must be quit with outmost care, AND supervision. It takes about three weeks (or longer) to make you feel better, and I do not know how you should quit, because I am still on it. But one thing you must never forget: *do not do change anything in the way you medicate unless your pdoc says so*, not your husband. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email.

Response:

Question:

On my third week at 200 mg.  Still nothing.  Does anyone have any experience using Serzone?  Please share.

Response:

Taking serzone, 250 mg/day. Started at 75, then up to 125, then 150, now 250.  I’ve been on it probably 9-10 months.  I am very glad I found it. I can’t take prozac, paxil, zoloft, effexor . . . but the serzone does what it needs to. I don’t feel "flat" or numb – I still have emotions, it’s just that the highs are not as high nor the lows as low.  I still have bad days, but they come and go much quicker than when I was on no meds at all.  My pdoc says I will probably be on the serzone for a couple of years at least. The only side effects i’ve noticed are that I sweat a whole lot (I sweat a lot before I ever took ADs, so now it is profuse!), and my dreams are very, very vivid.  But I can handle both of those SE. Good luck with it, Oliver. Kym The Tintinnabulation of the bells, Bells, BELLS! Remove "blech" to e-mail me

Response:

serzone nearly wrecked everything , 400 per day , welcome to the zoo , well it was for me , the best med i took so far , has been no med , and i mean no med at all . not even a coffee .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking serzone, 250 mg/day. Started at 75, then up to 125, then 150, now 250.  I’ve been on it probably 9-10 months.  I am very glad I found it. I can’t take prozac, paxil, zoloft, effexor . . . but the serzone does what it needs to. I don’t feel "flat" or numb – I still have emotions, it’s just that the highs are not as high nor the lows as low.  I still have bad days, but they come and go much quicker than when I was on no meds at all.  My pdoc says I will probably be on the serzone for a couple of years at least. The only side effects i’ve noticed are that I sweat a whole lot (I sweat a lot before I ever took ADs, so now it is profuse!), and my dreams are very, very vivid.  But I can handle both of those SE. Good luck with it, Oliver. Kym The Tintinnabulation of the bells, Bells, BELLS! Remove "blech" to e-mail me

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Response:

mind you, normally i wouldn’t be bothered by the easy access to a script… but it only verified for me that nobody in a 90 mile radius gives a sh*t about me.

Honey, it’s not you.  Doctors are under so much pressure to see as many people as possible that they simply give you pretty much what ever you ask for just to save time.  Yes it’s horrible, but it’s not aimed at you personally. anybody experience really bad headaches with this drug?

I couldn’t tell you that because I’ve had bad headaches pretty much all my life no matter what drug I’m on. Monica Tittle   Bad habits are hard to break.  Especially if you like them.                                   –Found inside a fortune cookie

Response:

That’s the med’s that my doc gave me. I’m taking 100 mg’s.  I’ve only started today, so I woulden’t know. The doc said it should take about 2 1/2 weeks to kick in. Give it another week.  If it is not working, then tell your doc. ~Racheal G           ICQ# 91183600 You can’t fight the tears that aint coming, or the moment of truth in your lies. When everything feels like the movies, you bleed just to know your alive. Before you buy.

Response:

The only side effects i’ve noticed are that I sweat a whole lot (I sweat a lot before I ever took ADs, so now it is profuse!), and my dreams are very, very vivid.  But I can handle both of those SE.

Oh god!  I thought it was just me!  I’ve never sweated very much before, but now I sweat buckets.  I was folding laundry (only three baskets) and I looked like I had been working out for an hour afterwards.  I’m talking dripping off my nose soaked hair kind of sweaty here. I wish I had the vivid dreams.  I haven’t had a good one in a very long time.  :-/ Monica Tittle   Bad habits are hard to break.  Especially if you like them.                                   –Found inside a fortune cookie

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serzone had it’s ups n downs , sex was finally possible again , but the toilet trips were a little much , i got bum burn

% Sorry you had trouble with the serzone. For me it has been a godsend – a way to be able to live, productively, work, be active in my church, and quell most of the suic*de thoughts that I was having. As for no caffeine – ACK – i’d never survive! Kym The Tintinnabulation of the bells, Bells, BELLS! Remove "blech" to e-mail me

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% Sorry you had trouble with the serzone. For me it has been a godsend – a way to be able to live, productively, work, be active in my church, and quell most of the suic*de thoughts that I was having. As for no caffeine – ACK – i’d never survive! Kym The Tintinnabulation of the bells, Bells, BELLS! Remove "blech" to e-mail me

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Question:

Hi,    I have had PD for 14 years now. I haven’t had a bad time with it in years..until here recently.  I am on klonopin..low dosage .25 mg 1/day.     I have had some traumatic events happening in the last few days that have caused me to constantly cry, can’t eat, nausea, and terrible anxiety.  I have some zoloft in my cabinet, but i never took it (pill phobic).  Are there awful side effects to this? My dr. wanted to put me on prozac, but i thought i would rather have one not so stimulating to the nervous system….or does st. john’s wort work? i have some of that as well. thanks

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: : Hi, Hi, Welcome to ASAP! :    I have had PD for 14 years now. I haven’t had a bad time with it in : years..until here recently.  I am on klonopin..low dosage .25 mg 1/day.   : :   I have had some traumatic events happening in the last few days that have : caused me to constantly cry, can’t eat, nausea, and terrible anxiety.  I have : some zoloft in my cabinet, but i never took it (pill phobic).  Are there awful : side effects to this? My dr. wanted to put me on prozac, but i thought i would : rather have one not so stimulating to the nervous system….or does st. john’s : wort work? i have some of that as well. Zoloft and Prozac both belong to the same family of medications; known as Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SRIs). If you feel better about trying the Zoloft, then maybe you should try that first, but only under the direction of your doctor. Also, I’m not sure how long your Zoloft has been in the cabinette, so it may have to be replaced since medications can go bad after a time (shelf-life). IMPORTANT NOTE: Do Not take St John’s Wort (SJW) together with an SRI medication. There is a serious possibility of a dangerous interaction between the two. If you are Not taking an SRI medication, then you might give SJW a try, but (again) discuss this with your doctor first. SJW seems most effective for moderate depression and anxiety. Severe anxiety and depression may require something else. Considering that recent traumatic events have aggrivated your condition, some form of psychotherapy should seriously be considered. Without knowing your circumstances, I can’t suggest a specific kind of therapy. If you are open to discussing it (via post or e-mail) I will be glad to make a suggestion, but otherwise you should consult a counselor or psychotherapist.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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Anxiousgrl schreef: Hi,    I have had PD for 14 years now. I haven’t had a bad time with it in years..until here recently.  I am on klonopin..low dosage .25 mg 1/day.   I have had some traumatic events happening in the last few days that have caused me to constantly cry, can’t eat, nausea, and terrible anxiety.  I have some zoloft in my cabinet, but i never took it (pill phobic).  Are there awful side effects to this? My dr. wanted to put me on prozac, but i thought i would rather have one not so stimulating to the nervous system….or does st. john’s wort work? i have some of that as well. thanks

  Considering recent reports on Paxil and Zoloft side effects I think you’d better try Prozac (max. .5 mgs first dose, liquid) and slowly raise the dose while helped by a benzo, preferably Xanax, to keep initial worsening of symptoms at bay. Almost *all* AD’s worsen your symptoms in the beginning, which may last from2-8 weeks. If you feel you shouldn’t even try Prozac, I would suggest taking Luvox instead. Philip

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Question:

Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long time? Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

Can you remember the last time you felt good?  Does it seem like a long time?  For some people a week is a long time.  For others of us it takes years before we admit there’s a problem. — Cindy Brown Cross-stitcher, quilter, designer, and cat-lover "If you know what you want, then you go and you find it, and you get it…. When the end is right, it justifies the beans!"            _Into the Woods_ by Stephen Sondheim

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Over the  past several weeks, I’ve been reading the posts on depression.  I decided this evening that it’s time to speak up. I am a mental health professional, a therapist.  Although my primary focus is children and families, I also run our clinic’s Medication Clinic, where I assist the psychiatrist who comes once each week.  Personally, I have been taking Effexor for four years due to Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent, without Psychotic Features.  Now that I’ve stated my credentials, let me make a few clarifications. 1.  The predominant theory, and most widely accepted, of depression is that it is caused by a combination of a neurochemical imbalance and poor coping skills.  Thus a person may have an imbalance  but good coping skills or not much conflict or adversity, and only experience more frequent down days than an otherwise normal person.  If that person were to suddenly have a major crisis, he or she would be more likely to suffer a depressive episode. 2.  "Clinical" and "chronic" refer to the level and length of the depression. Clinical depression is the type that requires counseling and usually medication.  Situational depression results for something going on in the person’s life and usually can be treated with counseling alone.  Chronic depression means it has been going on for a long time, usually most of the person’s life.  Dysthymia  is a mild depression  every  day for at least two years.  Depression can also be related to medical conditions and substance abuse.  Bipolar Disorder, or manic-depression,  is a chemical imbalance which causes the person to have severe mood swings.  It is usually treated with lithium but also responds to some of the drugs that are used to treat seizure disorders.  Bipolar Disorder is *not* treated with anti-anxiety drugs. 3.  Depression doesn’t always present as the stereotypical tearfulness, hopelessness, and helplessness.  The person can be easily agitated and prone to angry outbursts.  This is especially true in children.  The person can be easily distracted and have very poor concentration.  Frequently children are misdiagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) when they are really depression. Children who have to take really  high doses of Ritalin or Cylert may be depressed not hyperactive. 4.  Several types of drugs are used to treat depression, from the older tricyclics and MAO inhibitors to the newer SRI inhibitors (Prozac, Effexor, Paxil).  A new generation of drugs is now on the market that works differently from all the others.  These different types of drugs are necessary because each person’s depression is different, caused by a different set of factors. Besides chemotherapy and counseling, increased activity is essential.  That’s why doing needlework can help. There are several sites on the web for information about depression.  However, if you or a loved one  is suffering from a mood disorder,  you need to seek counseling.  It doesn’t go away by itself.  You have to work at it.  And it may be some of the hardest work you’ve ever done, but it’s well worth the effort to have yourself back. Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny

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: Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) : Jenny : : : Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about : when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long : time?   Well let’s see….. an abusive childhood resulted in at least 12 years of depression-like syptoms before I was diagnosed upon entering therapy. And the diagnosis was in the Autumn of 1992. Just one example….  ;) Sherri : Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL : *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I : only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that : differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

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Depression 101 is now dismissed.  ;-) Jenny

Thanks so much for the information.  I have one question.  You mentioned about when depression lasts a long time.  What are the general timeframes for a long time?   Leslie – Glen Ellyn, IL *****I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat      Rebecca West 1913*****

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(NikoKat) writes: The person can be easily agitated and prone to

angry outbursts.  This is especially true in children

It is even more especially true in men…I bought a book about Men’s Depression, "I Don’t Want to Talk About It" and many symptoms of depression in men show up so differently…it even eluded that it can lead to abuse of women and children. Denise in Akron, Ohio X/USA/H2/X13/Y9/1D/XXX/0=/:-D~/L/G-/Wo/D/M/B/b/R+/S+/K-/E/Anthony Hopkins/Robert Naseef/cold pumpkin pie with whipped cream sprinkled with a sugar/cinnamon mix

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