Question:

Get to your doctor and get started on any number of presriptions by Dec/Jan if your allergies flare up in Feb/Mar. I’ve had similar issues without outdoor exercise,

Whoops. Read: "I’ve had similar issues with outdoor exercise,…" — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan

Response:

I had similar problems, especially when I lived in the midwest.  It got so bad that I couldn’t run more than a quarter mile before I had the equivalent of an Asthma attack.  OTC medicine like Clor-Trimeton worked pretty well for me.  When that didn’t do the trick, I stepped up to Claritin. Recently, I was training for the Ironman, and had similar issues develop. The doctor presribed Flovent (very expensive, very effective). I’d be careful about taking prednisone, though.  The stuff effects different people different ways.  I had a serious battle with Poison oak about 6 months ago, where that was prescribed.  Though I didn’t think this was possible, I averaged 3 hours of sleep a night for three weeks. The stuff had me amped like I’d never been amped before.  I recall doing 8 mile runs at 3 in the morning, slightly above what is usually my lactate threshold, and not even being tired afterward.  It is a banned substance for racing, however, so if you want to feel a drug-free sense of accomplishment, I’d steer clear. Zac

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. Started training for my first marathon in May. Slated to run it in January. Am really starting to get into it. I’m dreading one thing, though. I have all intentions of continuing to run year round, but in Feb/Mar, I always come down with the crummiest allergic reaction to oak pollen, which is everywhere in my home of Central Florida during spring. It’s not so much the normal itchy and runny nose and eyes I’m worried about; it’s more the chest-cold-type symptoms I get when I’m breathing hard for extended periods during that time. Any advice? I’d hate to have to do the treadmill thing for a month or six weeks. Thanks.

Response:

Hi. Started training for my first marathon in May. Slated to run it in January. Am really starting to get into it. I’m dreading one thing, though. I have all intentions of continuing to run year round, but in Feb/Mar, I always come down with the crummiest allergic reaction to oak pollen, which is everywhere in my home of Central Florida during spring. It’s not so much the normal itchy and runny nose and eyes I’m worried about; it’s more the chest-cold-type symptoms I get when I’m breathing hard for extended periods during that time. Any advice? I’d hate to have to do the treadmill thing for a month or six weeks. Thanks.

Get to your doctor and get started on any number of presriptions by Dec/Jan if your allergies flare up in Feb/Mar. I’ve had similar issues without outdoor exercise, and have finally gotten them under control by a combined regimen of nasal inhalers (Rhinocort), mouth inhalers (Flovent) and, as needed, something like Allegra. You can absolutely diminish or avoid these symptoms altogether, but you’ve got to start taking the stuff early on to let it build up and do its work. There are, of course, some reasons to be concerned about long-term inhaled steroid use, but you should talk these through with your doctor. Good luck! — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan

Response:

it’s more the chest-cold-type symptoms I get when I’m breathing hard for extended periods during that time. Any advice?

Been there, done that.  My doctor gives me prescriptions for:  (1) an Albuterol inhaler; and (2) Prednisone tablets.  Also, sometimes Guaifenesin, either presecription as "Guaifenesin LA" or non-prescription as Robitussin (NOT "DM").  I must warn you, though, that you will lose weight with the Albuterol inhaler, as it ups your heart rate and gives your hands a sometimes irritating tremor. these 3 things will prevent a respiratory fluid build-up by helping you cough it out as it develops.  Good luck.  You CAN run through this; I do.  Remember that coughing is your friend, not your enemy, when you have this condition. –KLM

Response:

Hi. Started training for my first marathon in May. Slated to run it in January. Am really starting to get into it. I’m dreading one thing, though. I have all intentions of continuing to run year round, but in Feb/Mar, I always come down with the crummiest allergic reaction to oak pollen, which is everywhere in my home of Central Florida during spring. It’s not so much the normal itchy and runny nose and eyes I’m worried about; it’s more the chest-cold-type symptoms I get when I’m breathing hard for extended periods during that time. Any advice? I’d hate to have to do the treadmill thing for a month or six weeks. Thanks.

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Question:

I took it for about 6 weeks and all I got were headaches. My doctor just prescribed Singulair for my asthama. I was looking forward to taking it to see if it would help, until I read the information sheet from the pharmacy. There are alot of potenital side effects, and it kind of spooked me. Anyone else have any side effects, besides nightmares and headaches? Thanks!

The ONLY side effect I had from taking Singulair, was being a little more emotional than normal.  I have always been a sensitive person, but I would cry at a commercial if it was sentimental at all.  Silly, isn’t it?  Well, once I got on Zoloft (part of my migraine prevention routine), my emotional state has returned to normal.   Just my 2 cents..Good Luck, I hope Singulair works well for you! *hugs* Ash

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I asked my doctor about taking the Singulair in the morning and he thought it would be ok.  He asked the rep. and they didn’t know why it was to be a night time dose. I can tell that it is working because I only need my rescue inhaler a few times a week instead of every day.  I do not like the weird dreams so I will cont. to take in the morning until I receive a "good" reason why I should take in the night.  Pam.

Response:

I take Singulair in the morning also.  I found if taken at night it makes my insomnia much worse.  Taking it in the morning works much better for me. I asked my doctor about taking the Singulair in the morning and he thought it would be ok.  He asked the rep. and they didn’t know why it was to be a night time dose. I can tell that it is working because I only need my rescue inhaler a few times a week instead of every day.  I do not like the weird dreams so I will cont. to take in the morning until I receive a "good" reason why I should take in the night.  Pam.

– Lisa M. DeSavage Hinsbar Laboratories, Inc. www.hinsbarlabs.com

Response:

From the Singular web page: Like all prescription drugs, SINGULAIR may cause side effects. In studies, side effects usually have been mild. They generally have not caused patients to stop taking SINGULAIR. The list below is NOT a complete list of side effects reported with SINGULAIR. Your doctor can discuss with you a more complete list of side effects. The side effects in patients treated with SINGULAIR were similar in type and frequency to side effects in patients who were given a placebo (a pill containing no medication). Some of the side effects reported in studies included: tiredness fever abdominal (stomach) pain stomach or intestinal upset (gastroenteritis) heartburn dizziness headache rash Additionally, the following have been reported:  allergic reactions such as swelling of the face, lips, tongue, and/or throat, which may cause difficulty in breathing or swallowing, hives, and itching; dream abnormalities, drowsiness, irritability, and restlessness. A condition, which includes a combination of certain persistent or worsening symptoms, has been reported rarely in patients given SINGULAIR. These symptoms may include: a flu-like illness, rash, pins and needles or numbness of arms or legs, and severe sinusitis. These have occurred usually, but not always, in patients whose oral corticosteroid medicine for asthma is being reduced. Although SINGULAIR has not been shown to cause this condition, you must tell your doctor immediately if you experience a combination of these symptoms. Remember, anytime you have a medical problem you think may be related to SINGULAIR, talk to your doctor. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then that’s what it is!  I just started having bizarre dreams — sometimes nightmares — about a month ago.   And it did start about a week or so after I started the Singulair.  The Singulair is definitely helping me.  I don’t feel like I have a bad chest cold all of the time anymore (yeah!).   And I’ve been waking up at least twice every night for about 3 years now, so I guess I can live with the nightmares.  I’ll ask my doctor about it the next time I see him.  Thanx! Regarding nightmares: I think I read in a magazine ad (the part on the back of the ad that contains all the technical information about a drug) that Singulair can cause vivid dreams. You may want to discuss this rare side-effect with your doctor. I regularly have vivid dreams, I did both before and after going on Singulair last spring, but I have noticed an increase in the frequency of these dreams, rarely bad, since starting the med. Because I am used to the dreams anyway, they don’t bother me. Anyone else notice this when they started Singulair? Lisa S. — Starlight Bridals                  TOLL FREE!  888-VEILS-33 Affordable headpieces, veils, and more! Since 1995… http://starlightbridals.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter  (20 yr old) is starting to have great relief with singulair. Night time asthma attacks are becoming less severe but she is having nightmares……and she feels there is some connection….anyone else experience this? Anne

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I prefer morning too, so thanks for letting me know. I’ll ask my doc about it.

Response:

I took it for about 6 weeks and all I got were headaches. My doctor just prescribed Singulair for my asthama. I was looking forward to taking it to see if it would help, until I read the information sheet from the pharmacy. There are alot of potenital side effects, and it kind of spooked me. Anyone else have any side effects, besides nightmares and headaches?

Singulair is considered to ba a very safe medication.  The trick when looking for side effects is to compare the medication side effects with the placebo side effects.  The difference in the rates of the side effects suggest the likelihood of an actual side effect of the medication. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

My doc switched me from Singulair to Accolate because I experienced numbness in my extremities and lips (of all places!) plus I was really disoriented when taking it.  Sort of spaced out feeling. Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took it for about 6 weeks and all I got were headaches. My doctor just prescribed Singulair for my asthama. I was looking forward to taking it to see if it would help, until I read the information sheet from the pharmacy. There are alot of potenital side effects, and it kind of spooked me. Anyone else have any side effects, besides nightmares and headaches? Thanks!

Response:

i

Question:

I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no." I don’t care if your name IS Erle Stanley, get your rake out of my petunias!

     I get similar symptoms when I have a sinus infection Patricia

Response:

Drugs such as serevent and maxair (beta agonists) can cause muscle twitching.  I have had several patients that had to stop the use of serevent due to severe tremors.  Do not stop your medication with out talking to your physician.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no." I don’t care if your name IS Erle Stanley, get your rake out of my petunias!     I get similar symptoms when I have a sinus infection Patricia

I just started getting eyelid twitches and am on the same meds. and here my husband thought I was winking at him!!!! Seriously, does anyone else have the same problems??? Peace, Tish are the thoughts,you have hidden in your heart…….

Response:

I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no."

Take magnesium supplements for the twitches. Say 400 mg. Take before bedtime and it also will help you sleep sounder (helps the natural melatonin work). For the headaches try a gluten-free or corn-free diet. Don.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no." Any bronchodilator can cause twitching of any nerves, that have a tendancy to twitch. I have a familiar tremor in my hands. When I take alot of ventolin (and in the old days theophyline), my tremors would start up. These were the times one or both of my eyelids would twitch like crazy. —

Have you tried taking minerals, especially potassium?  I’ve found them to be helpful.

Response:

I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no." I don’t care if your name IS Erle Stanley, get your rake out of my petunias!

Response:

I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The pharmacist and physician both say "no."

Any bronchodilator can cause twitching of any nerves, that have a tendancy to twitch. I have a familiar tremor in my hands. When I take alot of ventolin (and in the old days theophyline), my tremors would start up. These were the times one or both of my eyelids would twitch like crazy. —

Response:

: I am using Azmacort and Serevent regularly and Maxair occasionally.  I : have recently developed twitches in my eyelids that are quite : annoying.  I have also been having headaches.   Does anyone know : whether these are side effects of any of these prescriptions?  The : pharmacist and physician both say "no." I don’t take the precise same medications you do (I’m on Pulmicort and Bricanyl), but although the corticorsteroid (Pulmicort) doesn’t have any recognizable side-effects other than those caused by the turbuhaler, the Bricanyl bronchodilator causes a noticeable hand tremblor and a few twitches that sound similar to yours.  Especially for the first hour or two after I have to hit the bronchodilator. : I don’t care if your name IS Erle Stanley, : get your rake out of my petunias! — Murray Stone, Barrister & Solicitor phone:  (403) 486-5146  fax:  (403) 483-7791 snailmail:  616-21, 10405 Jasper Avenue Edmonton, AB, T5J 3S2 Canada

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Question:

Yoga can help to relax. Meditation is mehtode for relaxation. More active and proven to be helpful with depression is running. I only have a link to a dutch site about running therapie, but i’m sure ther will be more in your language if you’ll seek with a searchengine Take Care and Good Luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there, Having recently being diagnosed with depression and anxiety, I have started to regularly take my zoloft, xanax and risperdal. They kinda work, although the strange skin sensitivity (imaginary I guess) and the hair-loss (very actual, I am afraid) continue. But I feel not-so-down Browsing through the newsgroup, I found some tips about things we can do to help ourselves. Any ideas anyone? Or any URLs to study? I would try *anything*. For example physical excercise, mentioned in one of the previous messages, seems to be a good idea. Do you favor weight lifting or something more on the aerobic kind? All ideas welcomed and needed. Regards,  Sofia (Athens-Greece)

Response:

9:46 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there, Having recently being diagnosed with depression and anxiety, I have started to regularly take my zoloft, xanax and risperdal. They kinda work, although the strange skin sensitivity (imaginary I guess) and the hair-loss (very actual, I am afraid) continue. But I feel not-so-down Browsing through the newsgroup, I found some tips about things we can do to help ourselves. Any ideas anyone? Or any URLs to study? I would try *anything*. For example physical excercise, mentioned in one of the previous messages, seems to be a good idea. Do you favor weight lifting or something more on the aerobic kind? All ideas welcomed and needed. Regards, Sofia (Athens-Greece)

either weight-lifting or aerobics or anything else that you enjoy and will do regularly will help you. I go for walks.  i like walking because it doesn’t require special equipment or training, and walking can take me to new places at a pace that will allow me to see my surrondings.  but that’s me.  back in college i took ballet as an exercise class, and always felt better afterward. also food:  it is pretty well documented now that food which contains omega-3 fatty acids help with depression.  the best sources are fish like tuna and salmon (but not the farmed salmon, it has to be wild).  their might be other sources, but i don’t remember them.  if you do a search on google.com, then you’ll probably find more than you need to know. good luck. Erminia

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All ideas welcomed and needed.

Here’s a URL, maybe you’ve seen it already: http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.html — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org  Get a Life <http://gadenrelief.org<http://ipb.org<http://www.msf.org <http://icbl.org<http://www.icrc.org<http://iwpr.net<http://rawa.org <http://greenpeace.org<http://gush-shalom.org<http://warresisters.org

Response:

Hello there, Having recently being diagnosed with depression and anxiety, I have started to regularly take my zoloft, xanax and risperdal. They kinda work, although the strange skin sensitivity (imaginary I guess) and the hair-loss (very actual, I am afraid) continue. But I feel not-so-down Browsing through the newsgroup, I found some tips about things we can do to help ourselves. Any ideas anyone? Or any URLs to study? I would try *anything*. For example physical excercise, mentioned in one of the previous messages, seems to be a good idea. Do you favor weight lifting or something more on the aerobic kind? All ideas welcomed and needed. Regards,  Sofia (Athens-Greece)

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Thanks guys, these advices are very interesting. I’ll try running asap, although I am scared that it might let the mind unfocused to hover towards unpleasent thoughts. Swimming definitely did that. Maybe dancing is more appropriate for me.. Thanks again

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there, Having recently being diagnosed with depression and anxiety, I have started to regularly take my zoloft, xanax and risperdal. They kinda work, although the strange skin sensitivity (imaginary I guess) and the hair-loss (very actual, I am afraid) continue. But I feel not-so-down Browsing through the newsgroup, I found some tips about things we can do to help ourselves. Any ideas anyone? Or any URLs to study? I would try *anything*. For example physical excercise, mentioned in one of the previous messages, seems to be a good idea. Do you favor weight lifting or something more on the aerobic kind?

I have been going to the local fitness center for over a year now. They recommended a program of both strength training and aerobics. I go three times a week and use the Nautilus machines for strength training and then use a treadmill for 30 minutes of aerobics. I definitely feel better after each session. I am more relaxed and problems seem to disappear or be less of a strain on me. (And, in addition it is very healthy.) Another thing is to do things that keep your mind focused. For example, I am better off being online and actively involved in news groups or editing photographs or chatting than I am to be watching TV. My therapist has helped me to realize that we all need to have meaningful things to do- meaningful to us. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All ideas welcomed and needed. Regards,  Sofia (Athens-Greece)

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Question:

SMELL THE FART!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

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Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

| | | Oh jesus H christ… | | | What they need is a pill to cure farting and burping… | | |

| | WASHINGTON (Reuters Health) – The US Food and Drug Administration | (news – web sites) has given the drug company Pfizer Inc. the go ahead | to market its antidepressant Zoloft (sertraline) for the treatment of | premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), a severe form of premenstrual | syndrome, the company confirmed on Friday. | | | Following an FDA announcement of the approval, a Pfizer spokeswoman | told Reuters Health that a corporate statement would be made on | Monday, but that the firm would not provide details before then. | | The FDA said it had approved two supplementary new drug applications | for Zoloft as a PMDD treatment: one for daily dosing and one for use | only during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. | | Zoloft is already indicated for depression, panic disorder, | obsessive-compulsive disorder and posttraumatic stress disorder. | | The FDA noted that the first drug to be approved to treat PMDD was Eli | Lilly’s Sarafem (fluoxetine), which contains the same active | ingredient as the company’s antidepressant Prozac. That approval was | issued in July 2000. | | SkyePharma, which has developed a controlled-release version of | GlaxoSmithKline’s antidepressant Paxil (paroxetine), has said that it | hopes to see that drug approved for PMDD this year and launched for | the indication in 2003. | | | | | — | "Caution, the surgeon general has found that psychiatric | treatements cause poverty and mental illness."

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Question:

dear elaine, hello i have had spasmodic torticollis for 14 years. i cannot say that the head tremors are worse. it occurs more frequently  my muscles are stiff. and trying to hold my head still is a quest  for me in public. i have trouble with burning in the back of my neck. i use a heating pad for this. i’ve taken alot of meds. valium seems to be my poison. klonopin sent me packing with a seizure.music and walking help also. been to the ie; best in the state neuros. and docs. no botox.do’nt want it . the best  i have done is get educated on this mercyless ilness. i hope this helps.debbie

Response:

elaine, I have had st for a year and a half. It took three months to find it which is short compared to most. My neurologist was a movement disorder Dr. and found it in one hour.  He could not tell me if it would get worse. I then went to Baylor medical center in Houston. Dr. Jankovic at the movement disorder center gave me the same answer to st. He said he could not say if it would get worse or better as everyone is different. I have tremors of the head with mine and jerky all over sometimes and he said my tremors probably would get worse. Good luck and God bless.  I will  say prayers for you. Loretta

Response:

Dear Elaine, My consultant neurologist just treats people with Dystonia and Parkinson’s. He has treated me with botullinum toxin for spasmodic torticollis for 8 years. His experience of patients with adult onset dystonia is that 80% continue with much the same symptoms for the long term. 10% get worse in the sense that they either develop more severe local symptoms or other muscles become affected. 10% go into full remission.  By which he means an absence of symptoms for many years rather than the general ups and downs with which we are all familiar. A more likely long term problem in my experience is the increased pain that comes with the extra strain that is put on our musceloskeletal system as a side effect of coping with the neck twisting.  In addition I know that some develop a resistance to the particular type of botullinum toxin with which they are being injected. I would echo the advice of others who have replied that you find a neurologist who specialises in dystonia. My experience of non-specialist neurologists is not great. If you were in the UK I could give you some names to look for. Regards, David Well at last after 6 years of asking, the GP I saw today is referring me to a neurologist, she wasn’t too familiar with Dystonia at all, but she listened to me and didn’t fob me off with "anxiety and tension". She also asked for web addresses for her own personal interest. So I’ll just need to wait see what happens next. Thanks again to all of you who replied to my first post. Just one more question, from experience what are the chances of ST worsening after between 6 – 9 years? I’ve not been as bad the past 4? Regards Elaine

David Everett

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HI;  In my own estimate it depends on you and what you do. If you are working and that aggravates it then  I would say it could get worse. I find that I can do many things today that I would not even think of 2 years after getting this. I also posted a site on degenerative disks as they can cause spasms.What type and how bad I’m not sure of.                gary; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well at last after 6 years of asking, the GP I saw today is referring me to a neurologist, she wasn’t too familiar with Dystonia at all, but she listened to me and didn’t fob me off with "anxiety and tension". She also asked for web addresses for her own personal interest. So I’ll just need to wait see what happens next. Thanks again to all of you who replied to my first post. Just one more question, from experience what are the chances of ST worsening after between 6 – 9 years? I’ve not been as bad the past 4? Regards Elaine

Response:

Well at last after 6 years of asking, the GP I saw today is referring me to a neurologist, she wasn’t too familiar with Dystonia at all, but she listened to me and didn’t fob me off with "anxiety and tension". She also

Folks who have Dystonia, because of way they attempt to control muscles spasms, give the impression they suffer from anxiety and tension. I also have essential tremor.  Some folks get the impressions, I suppose, that I am a nervous person but that is not the case.  Fatigue and stress will make it worst, but certain foods, liquids and movements will do the same thing. If I consciously try to control it, it will get worst.  Seems as if messages in the brain are mixed up.  All frustrating and complex. Spasms and tremor are usually worst in the mornings. asked for web addresses for her own personal interest. So I’ll just need to wait see what happens next. Thanks again to all of you who replied to my first post. Just one more question, from experience what are the chances of ST worsening after between 6 – 9 years? I’ve not been as bad the past 4?

ST flares up for five to six years, goes into remission on it’s own and then may come back later on.   It is important that you see a neurologist who is familiar with the syndrome.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards Elaine

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Well at last after 6 years of asking, the GP I saw today is referring me to a neurologist, she wasn’t too familiar with Dystonia at all, but she listened to me and didn’t fob me off with "anxiety and tension". She also asked for web addresses for her own personal interest. So I’ll just need to wait see what happens next. Thanks again to all of you who replied to my first post. Just one more question, from experience what are the chances of ST worsening after between 6 – 9 years? I’ve not been as bad the past 4? Regards Elaine

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Question:

The, North, &, South, Bipolar, Connection…Meet, me, in, the, middle! You can still get the medical care you need without insurance, and you don’t have to settle for care that doesn’t meet your needs, but you will have to work harder to find it and see that you get it.

God, I hope you’re right. You can use this period while you still have insurance to start making solid plans.

I’m trying. I’ve never been very good at follow-through though :/ The worry is a motivator, but once you start to see how you <will survive it becomes lessor. I know what it is like to have too many questions and not enough answers.

Don’t we all. :/ Thanks for the support.

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I’m sorry I was so hard on you. I did not realize how much you have & are suffering or how frightened you are.

It’s ok, I understand those knee-jerk reactions; do it all the time myself ; I was insensitive myself in my response. Maybe you pushed one of my buttons. You see I have two children, both of whom are now adult & both of whom are healthy.

I’m glad your kids are healthy. I’m not going to have any myself, not only because I don’t want to take the chance of passing this on, but also because I don’t think I could take care of them. I can barely take care of myself. Heck, most of the time I go hungry because shopping is such a horrible experience. If you could get to a major teaching hospital in your area and see someone in the "Mood Disorders Clinic" (Department of Psychiatry), I am confident you would be able to find relief for most of your symptoms.

This is a very small city, there’s only one hospital. I’d have to go to CMH. It is possible that a period of hospitalization would be advisable to allow the pdocs & staff to more quickly find the right combination of meds for *you*.

Um. No. Not only does the mere thought of the hospital scare the crap outa me, but they allow smoking in there (at least in the other place I was in they did) and I am extremely hypersensitive to second hand smoke. Being trapped in there and having to breathe that shit and choking is my worst nightmare. It happened to me the last time and the doctors didn’t care. The other staff didn’t care either. They could have at least kept the exhaust fans on, but the other patients complained that the little bit of wind they generated made them cold. It didn’t even matter that I was choking. From your description of your recent symptoms of tactile and auditory hallucinations, perhaps one of the new "atypical" APs, like Zyprexa, would help. It is also quite useful in combating dysphoric mania, in my experience, which is something you might just be experiencing. Ask your pdoc about it in the context of a comprehensive plan…

I don’t actually have a psychiatrist; just a general practice doctor. I’ve been scared to go to any psychiatrists for at least a decade now … except the interview I just had which was something I had to do, but would rather not discuss. His purpose was just to interview me, he’s not going to be a doctor I will be seeing regularly or who will be prescribing me any medicines. Like I said, I’d have to go to CMH. I might have too much fear to do that, I dunno yet. As for trying other drugs, at this point I’m willing to try just about anything to get this pain out of me.

Response:

I have to agree with Thumper as to the Wellbutrin or any AD. If you are truly bipolar, you pretty well must take a mood stabilizer and this is especially true if you are taking an AD.

I honestly didn’t know this until a couple days ago. I always thought it was the drug causing the problem, but there’s no doubt that I have had very clear-cut episodes of mania that were not drug induced. Those were more in the past, though. The problem the last few years seems to be an ongoing mixed episode that crashes into all out depression every few months. I’m not even experiencing any periods of relative stability; except during the time I was taking dexedrine, but there were (eventually) problems associated with that too. I dunno if there is a drug or combo of drugs out there that will help. Let’s face it, some people just can’t be helped, I’m really starting to believe that I am one of those people. :<

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permanently in the ether: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I feel that, overall, I am doing worse now than in the past. I have: 1. Constant headaches. 2. Constant fatigue. 3. Difficulty concentrating. 4. NO energy. 5. Constant feelings that suicide is only solution (but unable to take that way out because of effect on family). 6. Joint pain in major joints (hips and shoulders). 7. Stomach pain. 8. Cholesterol and Liver Enzyme levels are high. 9. Skin itches all the time (although I have no rash). 10. I have pains in my left chest. 11. Low thyroid and testosterone hormones. 12. I stop breathing at night unless I use a CPAP machine. 13. If I don

Question:

Hi Tom, I am a wine-maker and get a lot of pleasure from making and drinking my own wine. Most medications (as far as I have seen), tell you to avoid alcohol (there, that’s my disclaimer <G) but I truly do enjoy a good glass of red 3/4 times a week. Several times I have even had (gasp!) 2 glasses of wine, but I draw the line there. What I have found is that I have no tolerance for alcohol -I either feel very sleepy or get quite giddy. I have not felt any after-effects the next day. My doctor is fully aware of my hobby.

I think most doctors automatically tell you not to drink, or very little, whether you’re on medication or not.  But, for me too, when I’m on a benzo, alcohol has an increased effect, and a lot less of it goes a lot farther than I want.  A lot of us self-medicate with alcohol as it is a CNS depressant sort of like benzo’s with a much shorter half-life and more dangerous side-effects. Listen to your body and you can probably tell is you can handle a little alcohol with the drugs or not.  (Unless you are a substance abuser, that is.) Gordon Held

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That seems to be the case. Too bad meds ALL have to say this. I had to take an antibiotic once with the same warning – but there it DID matter. WOW! Talk about am upset stomach! Yikes! So… a beer or two is cool. A good glass of cabernet even better! Cheers… Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tom, I am a wine-maker and get a lot of pleasure from making and drinking my own wine. Most medications (as far as I have seen), tell you to avoid alcohol (there, that’s my disclaimer <G) but I truly do enjoy a good glass of red 3/4 times a week. Several times I have even had (gasp!) 2 glasses of wine, but I draw the line there. What I have found is that I have no tolerance for alcohol -I either feel very sleepy or get quite giddy. I have not felt any after-effects the next day. My doctor is fully aware of my hobby. The times that I do not drink at all are the periods when my anxiety is extremely high and I am either levelling up on a medication or trying a new one or if the depression is very bad. Then I wait for a few months until I feel "balanced" again. BTW, I take a TCA daily and an occasional benzo when needed. If you are concerned about damage to your body, you could have your doctor do a liver function test. Cheers! Charley So… I want to understand… Does taking Buspar or Xanax, etc. forever disallow you from enjoying a beer or two with friends -something that has REALLY lifted my spirits in the past. I’ve battled this question myself several times and usually have the beer or wine, not to excess. But I WOULD like to know if it is TRULY harmful, in this VERY moderate way? Doctors will, of course, say no alcohol. Pharmacy, same thing. I understand. They have to cover their ass and the combination probably is not good (chemically speaking) but alcohol never is good for you anyway. Addictive people should NEVER cross the two! To that I agree. But, once you take some of the "fairly" harmless fun out of your life, your anxiety can go though the roof! I KNOW! Exercise is great. I do it myself regularly when I can. BUT… giving up those few beers with my friends FOREVER seems harsh! I drank twice (half bottle of wine once and a few beers another time) while on Buspar (5 mg/twice day) and Xanax (1 mg 2-3 times a day). All I noticed is I had a good time, might have slept TOO well, and maybe a little more groggy getting up. So what! Took a shower and went back to my daily, fairly healthy grind! Probably a week or two later I may have done the same thing. I have a high tolerance to drugs (Found out the hard way after an appendectomy!). That’s just "my" body chemistry. Just curious if I’m crazy or not? Please no preachy non alcohol speeches. I’d just like to know what the REAL danger here is. Maybe we should all just go to http://www.beer.com and send each other a "virtual" beer! It’s really there! Someone else can start that tradition. Any takers? Tom …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So… I want to understand… Does taking Buspar or Xanax, etc. forever disallow you from enjoying a beer or two with friends -something that has REALLY lifted my spirits in the past. I’ve battled this question myself several times and usually have the beer or wine, not to excess. But I WOULD like to know if it is TRULY harmful, in this VERY moderate way? Doctors will, of course, say no alcohol. Pharmacy, same thing. I understand. They have to cover their ass and the combination probably is not good (chemically speaking) but alcohol never is good for you anyway. Addictive people should NEVER cross the two! To that I agree. But, once you take some of the "fairly" harmless fun out of your life, your anxiety can go though the roof! I KNOW! Exercise is great. I do it myself regularly when I can. BUT… giving up those few beers with my friends FOREVER seems harsh! I drank twice (half bottle of wine once and a few beers another time) while on Buspar (5 mg/twice day) and Xanax (1 mg 2-3 times a day). All I noticed is I had a good time, might have slept TOO well, and maybe a little more groggy getting up. So what! Took a shower and went back to my daily, fairly healthy grind! Probably a week or two later I may have done the same thing. I have a high tolerance to drugs (Found out the hard way after an appendectomy!). That’s just "my" body chemistry. Just curious if I’m crazy or not? Please no preachy non alcohol speeches. I’d just like to know what the REAL danger here is. Tom

If you react well to it there should be no problem in moderate drinking, although it’s better not to do it on a daily basis. I often drink a few glasses of wine myself and have done so on 375 different meds and I’m still around with the ol’ liver still intact. *Moderation* is the keyword here though. Interaction with benzos: alcohol and benzos both are CNS depressants which means that they may enhance each other’s effects: in other words, you may get drunk sooner or be more sedated than others. Hangovers may consist of PA’s. I’m not familiar with the exact interaction with Buspar but I do know that except with MAOI’s, AD’s can be taken while drinking a few glasses of wine/beer. My pdoc doesn’t mind me drinking as he knows I’m not going to be a alcoholic. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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So… I want to understand… Does taking Buspar or Xanax, etc. forever disallow you from enjoying a beer or two with friends -something that has REALLY lifted my spirits in the past. I’ve battled this question myself several times and usually have the beer or wine, not to excess. But I WOULD like to know if it is TRULY harmful, in this VERY moderate way? Doctors will, of course, say no alcohol. Pharmacy, same thing. I understand. They have to cover their ass and the combination probably is not good (chemically speaking) but alcohol never is good for you anyway. Addictive people should NEVER cross the two! To that I agree. But, once you take some of the "fairly" harmless fun out of your life, your anxiety can go though the roof! I KNOW! Exercise is great. I do it myself regularly when I can. BUT… giving up those few beers with my friends FOREVER seems harsh! I drank twice (half bottle of wine once and a few beers another time) while on Buspar (5 mg/twice day) and Xanax (1 mg 2-3 times a day). All I noticed is I had a good time, might have slept TOO well, and maybe a little more groggy getting up. So what! Took a shower and went back to my daily, fairly healthy grind! Probably a week or two later I may have done the same thing. I have a high tolerance to drugs (Found out the hard way after an appendectomy!). That’s just "my" body chemistry. Just curious if I’m crazy or not? Please no preachy non alcohol speeches. I’d just like to know what the REAL danger here is. Maybe we should all just go to http://www.beer.com and send each other a "virtual" beer! It’s really there! Someone else can start that tradition. Any takers? Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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Well, I’ve tried this a couple of times (I am on Xanax and Zoloft), and all that ever seemed to happen is that I had a hangover seemingly no matter what – sometimes even from 1 beer!  Not kidding…That’s all it ever was like though…I’m not taking a ton of Xanax, though, so I don’t know… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So… I want to understand… Does taking Buspar or Xanax, etc. forever disallow you from enjoying a beer or two with friends -something that has REALLY lifted my spirits in the past. I’ve battled this question myself several times and usually have the beer or wine, not to excess. But I WOULD like to know if it is TRULY harmful, in this VERY moderate way? Doctors will, of course, say no alcohol. Pharmacy, same thing. I understand. They have to cover their ass and the combination probably is not good (chemically speaking) but alcohol never is good for you anyway. Addictive people should NEVER cross the two! To that I agree. But, once you take some of the "fairly" harmless fun out of your life, your anxiety can go though the roof! I KNOW! Exercise is great. I do it myself regularly when I can. BUT… giving up those few beers with my friends FOREVER seems harsh! I drank twice (half bottle of wine once and a few beers another time) while on Buspar (5 mg/twice day) and Xanax (1 mg 2-3 times a day). All I noticed is I had a good time, might have slept TOO well, and maybe a little more groggy getting up. So what! Took a shower and went back to my daily, fairly healthy grind! Probably a week or two later I may have done the same thing. I have a high tolerance to drugs (Found out the hard way after an appendectomy!). That’s just "my" body chemistry. Just curious if I’m crazy or not? Please no preachy non alcohol speeches. I’d just like to know what the REAL danger here is. Maybe we should all just go to http://www.beer.com and send each other a "virtual" beer! It’s really there! Someone else can start that tradition. Any takers? Tom …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

– Charles Phipps

Response:

…do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

I had a REAL BAD experience when I was a drinker and took Buspar.  The two do not mix together well at all.  I personally don’t approve of drinking while taking meds…end of story.  But for those who do I say this…..Buspar and alcohol ARE dangerous.  Be careful.  You have to stop and ask yourself is drinking more important or is my health more important. Yes….alcohol causes health problems.  I only wish the best for you. Xanman – Former Drunk, Junkie, Pill poppin’, Dope smokin’, Idiot! — A little insanity in an sane wolf. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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well DAMN, boy! i think the three quarts of pabst would do you in the next morning even without the buspar! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -….do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

well DAMN, boy! i think the three quarts of pabst would do you in the next morning even without the buspar!

nah, i’m a professional drinker…… here’s my record for most alcohol consumed in an evening, it’s true i wrote it all down the next day, amazed myself even: 3 12oz cans of pabst 2 long island teas a martini 2 12 oz bottles of miller 1 screw driver 4 16 oz draft beers (unknown brand) 1 big margarita and a quart of pabst before bed and i didn’t even have a hangover, i was at work at 9 am on the dot.  i wouldn’t lie "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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…do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again.

Been doing that lately my self.   Watch – that it can truley mess you up. Do you feel it helps – albeit only temporarily?    What about depression the next day?  Terable? You’re so much better off when you do something physical.  Working out helps.  I guess that would include narly s-x too. Well i wish i could make that claim lately but i’m crossing a sand doon in the middle of the desert..  I know that soon along will come Ms or Mrs right,  food and water!   Maybe then i’ll be able to worry about somebody else’s life 1/2 as much as i do mine.  Maybe i just need two women! Wo wo wo, i thought you were banned.   Don’t know if we should be talking.  Well i think the question now is do you think you learned what ever lesson that it was you should have been learning?   Make people come to you.  Screw them – it’ll happen.! In the mean time hold your head up and by all means just relax. ralph g

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Wew that’s alot.  But try climbing on top your roof and smoking two bowls of green bud on top of it all and then fall off the ladder.  Still feeling that.  I drank a lot more than you did though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well DAMN, boy! i think the three quarts of pabst would do you in the next morning even without the buspar! nah, i’m a professional drinker…… here’s my record for most alcohol consumed in an evening, it’s true i wrote it all down the next day, amazed myself even: 3 12oz cans of pabst 2 long island teas a martini 2 12 oz bottles of miller 1 screw driver 4 16 oz draft beers (unknown brand) 1 big margarita and a quart of pabst before bed and i didn’t even have a hangover, i was at work at 9 am on the dot.  i wouldn’t lie "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

Been doing that lately my self.   Watch – that it can truley mess you up. Do you feel it helps – albeit only temporarily?    What about depression the next day?  Terable?

i felt great while drinking, it was the next morning i had to pay though. i didn’t have one single bit of anxiety during the festivities. no depression the next day, just horrible shakes and headache, and a thought that i had hurt my brain beyond repair. You’re so much better off when you do something physical.  Working out helps. I guess that would include narly s-x too.

working out is a good thing, well, i play soccer, and do a lot of walking, not really "working out" but it is exercise. sex is a bore and does nothing more than make life more complicated. oh well, i’ve sworn it off for now. Well i wish i could make that claim lately but i’m crossing a sand doon in the middle of the desert..  I know that soon along will come Ms or Mrs right, food and water!   Maybe then i’ll be able to worry about somebody else’s life 1/2 as much as i do mine.  Maybe i just need two women! Wo wo wo, i thought you were banned.   Don’t know if we should be talking. Well i think the question now is do you think you learned what ever lesson that it was you should have been learning?   Make people come to you.  Screw them – it’ll happen.!

huh? the banned thing is because i was banned from a club in memphis for talking shite on them on my web page, it’s just an inside joke in a couple other news groups. In the mean time hold your head up and by all means just relax.

sure, that’s what i’m going for. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

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Was only wondering.   Don’t mix meds and alcohol!   Not good for you and in most cases it’s antagonistic in it’s effects.  I RARELY even mix a little g.bud with it.  Come down and by all means don’t add to the problem! I never have any anxiety while drinking but i never need help with that, med wise. I don’t even like mixing analgisics with my hang over!   You bought it you pay for it.   PAY AS YOU GO!  Leave your chemistry alone And sex is a bore?   What?   <biting toung to keep from commenting See ya, gotta go now.   Sex a bore?   It’s always a bore if you’re lucky! Thanks for the explain- on the banned thing.  Avoided that as much as possible. Was there something you wanted to add? Talking s–t on yo web page?  Not cooo if you ask me.  I knew there was an alterior motive to your madness Later! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been doing that lately my self.   Watch – that it can truley mess you up. Do you feel it helps – albeit only temporarily?    What about depression the next day?  Terable? i felt great while drinking, it was the next morning i had to pay though. i didn’t have one single bit of anxiety during the festivities. no depression the next day, just horrible shakes and headache, and a thought that i had hurt my brain beyond repair. You’re so much better off when you do something physical.  Working out helps. I guess that would include narly s-x too. working out is a good thing, well, i play soccer, and do a lot of walking, not really "working out" but it is exercise. sex is a bore and does nothing more than make life more complicated. oh well, i’ve sworn it off for now. Well i wish i could make that claim lately but i’m crossing a sand doon in the middle of the desert..  I know that soon along will come Ms or Mrs right, food and water!   Maybe then i’ll be able to worry about somebody else’s life 1/2 as much as i do mine.  Maybe i just need two women! Wo wo wo, i thought you were banned.   Don’t know if we should be talking. Well i think the question now is do you think you learned what ever lesson that it was you should have been learning?   Make people come to you.  Screw them – it’ll happen.! huh? the banned thing is because i was banned from a club in memphis for talking shite on them on my web page, it’s just an inside joke in a couple other news groups. In the mean time hold your head up and by all means just relax. sure, that’s what i’m going for. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

Hi Tom, I am a wine-maker and get a lot of pleasure from making and drinking my own wine. Most medications (as far as I have seen), tell you to avoid alcohol (there, that’s my disclaimer <G) but I truly do enjoy a good glass of red 3/4 times a week. Several times I have even had (gasp!) 2 glasses of wine, but I draw the line there. What I have found is that I have no tolerance for alcohol -I either feel very sleepy or get quite giddy. I have not felt any after-effects the next day. My doctor is fully aware of my hobby. The times that I do not drink at all are the periods when my anxiety is extremely high and I am either levelling up on a medication or trying a new one or if the depression is very bad. Then I wait for a few months until I feel "balanced" again. BTW, I take a TCA daily and an occasional benzo when needed. If you are concerned about damage to your body, you could have your doctor do a liver function test. Cheers! Charley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So… I want to understand… Does taking Buspar or Xanax, etc. forever disallow you from enjoying a beer or two with friends -something that has REALLY lifted my spirits in the past. I’ve battled this question myself several times and usually have the beer or wine, not to excess. But I WOULD like to know if it is TRULY harmful, in this VERY moderate way? Doctors will, of course, say no alcohol. Pharmacy, same thing. I understand. They have to cover their ass and the combination probably is not good (chemically speaking) but alcohol never is good for you anyway. Addictive people should NEVER cross the two! To that I agree. But, once you take some of the "fairly" harmless fun out of your life, your anxiety can go though the roof! I KNOW! Exercise is great. I do it myself regularly when I can. BUT… giving up those few beers with my friends FOREVER seems harsh! I drank twice (half bottle of wine once and a few beers another time) while on Buspar (5 mg/twice day) and Xanax (1 mg 2-3 times a day). All I noticed is I had a good time, might have slept TOO well, and maybe a little more groggy getting up. So what! Took a shower and went back to my daily, fairly healthy grind! Probably a week or two later I may have done the same thing. I have a high tolerance to drugs (Found out the hard way after an appendectomy!). That’s just "my" body chemistry. Just curious if I’m crazy or not? Please no preachy non alcohol speeches. I’d just like to know what the REAL danger here is. Maybe we should all just go to http://www.beer.com and send each other a "virtual" beer! It’s really there! Someone else can start that tradition. Any takers? Tom …do not mix very well. i went a little nuts lastnight and drank a couple quarts of beer, felt fine til i woke up this morning, now i’m wondering if i have done long lasting damage to my body!!!!! uggggh. 15mg 2x a day and 3 quarts of pabst, you think i will live? needless to say i’m not doing that again. "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." http://members.aol.com/unfun26/enter.htm

Response:

Question:

Sally, beware of drugs touting false promises for BPs. St. John’s Wort, while very  effective in studies overseas, is only effective for MILD DEPRESSION, not for  bipolar. when you’ve got this particular lion banging at the doors, you need  something different. a mood stabilizer (sorry, i’m not a doctor & i dont play  one on tv) will help prevent the manias (what goes up must come down), and  regulate the neurochemicals. having just been diagnosed as BP during the summer (and misdiagnosed for years  before that, living on klonopin, zoloft, xanax, ritalin, whatever i/the docs  thought would work), i can say i’ve been through the litany of drugs. i’m not  physically tiny, but i am very sensitive to medication, and i am on doses that  would not pass in the PDR for therapeutic. (900 mg of neurontin & 250 to 325  mg of depakote and that’s IT). i’ve had my share of cocktails, mixes, dosages,  and unfortunately, it just does take a while to find the right drug or drugs.  i can’t tolerate lithium, and everything else i’ve tried has produced a  variety of side effects, some bearable, others not. i’m lucky because my doctor believes in simplifying the medication regimen as  much as possible, so we started out with the idea that maybe i’d only need a  single drug. it hasn’t worked out that way, but that’s life. what you DO need, IMO, is a doctor you trust. if you’re scared of the meds and  you’re not being listened to (but you do have to listen, too), then you’re  really doing yourself–and your kids–a disservice. Find a doctor you like and  trust, be willing to deal with some side effects (make sure your doctor  understands that you have kids and responsibilities), and try to have patience  (yeah, right). feel free to email. Miz

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m really scared of getting prescribed medication – once, before i was diagnosed as bipolar II, a doctor prescribed paxil. it knocked me out, all i did was sleep. then, when i said i thought it was too strong, he said it was all my imagination. so, i quit going to that doctor and months later i have been diagnosed BP II. i only weigh 90 lbs, and i’m 37. just have very small bone structure so it is a natural weight for me. but i can’t tolerate adult dosage, and docs never seem to take that into account.  anyway, i’m rambling, my mind is a mess right now. sorry. the point is… i’m really afraid of taking these cocktails and such that you all describe. i have two children and i’m on my own with them most of the time (my husband’s work takes him away 3 weeks at a time, then home for 3 weeks). i HAVE to function to take care of them. but then, the doctor says she feels i really need them, and probably always will. do these medications always make people so sick? is there anyone out there who can say the meds are really helping them? i don’t think i understand this at all. also, sorry i’m using a fake email address, i have never been involved in a newsgroup and was afraid of getting weird mail or something.

Yeah,  you’d get weird mail all right.   I wish I’d never given my real address.   My box is full of filthy trash mail every day.  I wish I could e-mail you directly because the posts don’t go to everyone. Try using a fake address and put  decoding directions in your signature.  . . .Now to answer your question. Yes,  meds will help you when you get the right one and the right dose.  Sometimes that is not easy.   Some docs won’t listen to you.  I eventually had to take charge of adjusting the dosage myself.   I too am very sensitive to meds of all types and usually half of the prescribed dosage is about right.   Caution:   if you are suicidal, don’t mess around with the dosage until you are stable.   Also try to find a doctor that is willing to try different meds at different doses until you get it right.   Also give it enough time.  It takes a month or more to stabilize you.   I think the longer you have been depressed, the longer it takes.  Paxil however is one of the fastest acting ones and the quickest to wash out of the system.   Depression also makes a person stuporous sometimes.  I had one doctor who always thought I was zombied out by the depression and needed a higher dose, so he’d prescribe more and more and more.  I finally had to dump him because he refused to listen to me and I was only able to function for one hour a day and gained 30 pounds sleeping all the time. Meds affect each person differently.   Prozac puts me to sleep. Others feel great with it.  Paxil makes me feel great, but puts you to sleep. For Bipolar Disorder, and antidepressant alone may not be the right medication.   It works for me, but I’ve been under treatment for years.  You must find a doc who will listen to you and work with you to help you feel better.   Don’t give up on meds –they really do work! Take Care, –Carroll

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i’m feeling better today but i know it’s because i was out to see my daughter’s play and she was so good in it, it was great to see her so happy with her performance and we gave her 2 dozen roses when it was over. she’s 12, and is able to accomplish whatever she sets her mind to without having a downside, self-esteem problems, all those things i have always had. i love my kids, and i’ll never leave them no matter how down i get. this keeps me going day after day. i’m rambling again.

Dear Sally, You are not rambling. You are a human being who wants to live a normal life, stop worrying what others think of you. DO not let let anyone convince you that you are a broken thing, someone who can not think for herself. Use your eyes, ears, brain and a little help from friends, because that is all you need. Good luck with bringing up your child. I have two kids and it is a great experience, they teach me about life everyday. — Joop Kaashoek INSA Limited http://www.insaltd.com (408) 268-9650

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i’m really scared of getting prescribed medication – once, before i was diagnosed as bipolar II, a doctor prescribed paxil. it knocked me out, all i did was sleep. then, when i said i thought it was too strong, he said it was all my imagination. so, i quit going to that doctor and months later i have been diagnosed BP II. i only weigh 90 lbs, and i’m 37. just have very small bone structure so it is a natural weight for me. but i can’t tolerate adult dosage, and docs never seem to take that into account.  anyway, i’m rambling, my mind is a mess right now. sorry. the point is… i’m really afraid of taking these cocktails and such that you all describe. i have two children and i’m on my own with them most of the time (my husband’s work takes him away 3 weeks at a time, then home for 3 weeks). i HAVE to function to take care of them. but then, the doctor says she feels i really need them, and probably always will. do these medications always make people so sick? is there anyone out there who can say the meds are really helping them? i don’t think i understand this at all. also, sorry i’m using a fake email address, i have never been involved in a newsgroup and was afraid of getting weird mail or something.

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seems like everyone that’s BP has had an awful hell of a time, and it makes me feel like there are finally some people out there who understand in this group. carma – i’m glad you are hanging in there and thanks for the message. going to hang in there myself with the st john’s wort for the 3 weeks the naturopathic doc says it will take for it to begin to have effect. it’s only been a little under 2 weeks but it seems like a lifetime waiting for this change. if this doesn’t work i think i’m forced to go ahead with the prescription meds and from what you say, it is worth the trouble. if there had been help for my mother (who killed herself in ‘67 at my age – 37),  she might have been here today to see her beautiful grandchildren. i miss her every day. by the way, you are an incredibly strong woman with a will to match. thanks for the encouragement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Once I made that med decision and saw how it did help me I won’t go back. I may trade one non-working med in for new ones but now that I have quit lying about how bad my life really was at times I’ll keep trying until the make the right med combination for me. Carma

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i don’t know what a mood stabilizer is, and don’t know what drugs are considered to be mood stabilizers. so, hopefully i’ll find some sort of alternative (as St. John’s Wort) that will act as a mood stabilizer. as for self education, i’d like to find some resources that will explain how  the brain chemicals are affected when you are BPII. which ones are up, down, etc., so that i can find ways to improve my diet and life (this is optimistic on my part probably, but why not). HarvilleC wrote in article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bipolar II patients need a mood stabilizer, in addition to an anti-dperessant (usually).  And anti-depressant alone may bring on wider mood swings and mania. It takes a while for meds to work, and it is a gradual process.  The drugs first have to "prod" the brain out of the swings, then establish a new set point.  It can take months. I am grateful for finding the right combination – it took a while, but with a dedicated doctor, and self-education, meds can and do work. Hang in there, and write to me anytime. Smooth sailing, Cathy

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By the way if it had been there in 1964 it could have helped my aunt DeLorice who killed herself at age 37 as well. Good luck with the SJW. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seems like everyone that’s BP has had an awful hell of a time, and it makes me feel like there are finally some people out there who understand in this group. carma – i’m glad you are hanging in there and thanks for the message. going to hang in there myself with the st john’s wort for the 3 weeks the naturopathic doc says it will take for it to begin to have effect. it’s only been a little under 2 weeks but it seems like a lifetime waiting for this change. if this doesn’t work i think i’m forced to go ahead with the prescription meds and from what you say, it is worth the trouble. if there had been help for my mother (who killed herself in ‘67 at my age – 37),  she might have been here today to see her beautiful grandchildren. i miss her every day. by the way, you are an incredibly strong woman with a will to match. thanks for the encouragement. Carma Winfrey-Hayes wrote in article Once I made that med decision and saw how it did help me I won’t go back. I may trade one non-working med in for new ones but now that I have quit lying about how bad my life really was at times I’ll keep trying until the make the right med combination for me. Carma

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another note about mood stabilizers… i have to learn about this! what can you tell me… when i say i’m new to this diagnosis, i mean REALLY new. like, last Friday. i’m feeling better today but i know it’s because i was out to see my daughter’s play and she was so good in it, it was great to see her so happy with her performance and we gave her 2 dozen roses when it was over. she’s 12, and is able to accomplish whatever she sets her mind to without having a downside, self-esteem problems, all those things i have always had. i love my kids, and i’ll never leave them no matter how down i get. this keeps me going day after day. i’m rambling again. can you tell me about mood stabilizers? SMxMS wrote in article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you taking a mood stabilizer as well?  An antidepressant for a bipolar can be activating, and this could be working against your best interests. Please make sure your psychiatrist knows what your naturopath doctor is prescribing for you.  Just make sure everyone is working together. Hang in there–Meds don’t work overnight.  I know it seems forever.  Are you quite sure you’re not supposed to be taking a mood stabilizer? I am NOT a doctor, but I just wanted to clarify this point. Hang in there–we all can sympathize.  We’ve been there.

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but then, the doctor says she feels i really need them, and probably always will. do these medications always make people so sick? is there anyone out there who can say the meds are really helping them? i don’t think i understand this at all. also, sorry i’m using a fake email address, i have never been involved in a newsgroup and was afraid of getting weird mail or something.

Sally, Bipolar II patients need a mood stabilizer, in addition to an anti-dperessant  (usually).  And anti-depressant alone may bring on wider mood swings and  mania. It takes a while for meds to work, and it is a gradual process.  The drugs  first have to "prod" the brain out of the swings, then establish a new set  point.  It can take months. I am grateful for finding the right combination – it took a while, but with a  dedicated doctor, and self-education, meds can and do work.   Hang in there, and write to me anytime. Smooth sailing, Cathy

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They are correct and sorry if I wasn’t explicit earlier. To be stable means you need something for mood cycling like Lithium, Dpakote or Tegretol or one of the more experimental newer meds like Neurotonin that are helping many bipolars. While some BP’s have traded in their anti-depressants for SJW in general this would  probably only work for people whose depressive cycles are milder than average. To be really stable most BP’s need a good mood drug AND a good anti-depressant and some with more difficult to treat BP take multiple combinations of these two med categories. The 2 1/2 years I took only an anti-depressant made no dent on my hypomanic anger or rage. That didn’t happen until after I started the lithium. Like I said the lithium side affects have been a pain in the butt but I’m still willing to hang in there until something better comes along. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i don’t know what a mood stabilizer is, and don’t know what drugs are considered to be mood stabilizers. so, hopefully i’ll find some sort of alternative (as St. John’s Wort) that will act as a mood stabilizer. as for self education, i’d like to find some resources that will explain how  the brain chemicals are affected when you are BPII. which ones are up, down, etc., so that i can find ways to improve my diet and life (this is optimistic on my part probably, but why not). HarvilleC wrote in article Bipolar II patients need a mood stabilizer, in addition to an anti-dperessant (usually).  And anti-depressant alone may bring on wider mood swings and mania. It takes a while for meds to work, and it is a gradual process.  The drugs first have to "prod" the brain out of the swings, then establish a new set point.  It can take months. I am grateful for finding the right combination – it took a while, but with a dedicated doctor, and self-education, meds can and do work. Hang in there, and write to me anytime. Smooth sailing, Cathy

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Question:

Where do I find veterinarian supply companies?   Maybe I’m being lazy here, but if you know I’d appreciate it. I’ve been to farm supply companies but don’t remember seeing tryptophan.  But then I was there for antibiotics myself. (worked great too!!) Thanks, dn

snipped for brevity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LT is available in 100 g. or larger quantities from veterinary suppliers, at a cost substantially less than prescription LT, though still more than the OTC product once cost. Veterinary LT is molecularly identical to the tryptophan we are interested in here, and purity and quality control are probably higher than most old OTC products. One caveat: if you are taking a SSRI (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor) antidepressent, concurrent LT use is strongly contradicated, as taking both together can produce the potentially lethal ’serotonin syndrome,’ due to toxic levels of 5-HT in the body. –Will

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do I find veterinarian supply companies?   Maybe I’m being lazy here, but if you know I’d appreciate it. I’ve been to farm supply companies but don’t remember seeing tryptophan.  But then I was there for antibiotics myself. (worked great too!!) Thanks, dn snipped for brevity LT is available in 100 g. or larger quantities from veterinary suppliers, at a cost substantially less than prescription LT, though still more than the OTC product once cost. Veterinary LT is molecularly identical to the tryptophan we are interested in here, and purity

There is a mail-order souce in Tucson, I don’t know their name. Check in alt.support.depression, or sci.med.pharmacy. –Will

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snipped for brevity LT is available in 100 g. or larger quantities from veterinary suppliers, at a cost substantially less than prescription LT, though still more than the OTC product once cost. Veterinary LT is molecularly identical to the tryptophan we are interested in here, and purity There is a mail-order souce in Tucson, I don’t know their name. Check in alt.support.depression, or sci.med.pharmacy. –Will

Please also come have a look at our site for this product. Be Well. QHI — Medicines For The Modern Mainstream http://www.qhi.co.uk

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                         The FDA Ban of                     L-Tryptophan:  Politics,                       Profits and Prozac1*                   By Dean Wolfe Manders, Ph.D.                  Copyright, All Rights Reserved      In the fall of 1989, the FDA recalled L-Tryptophan, an amino acid nutritional supplement, stating that it caused a rare and deadly flu-like condition (Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome — EMS). On March 22, 1990, the FDA banned the public sale dietary of L- Tryptophan completely. This ban continues today.      On March 26, 1990, Newsweek featured a lead article praising the virtues of the anti-depressant drug Prozac. Its multi-color cover displayed a floating, gigantic green and white capsule of Prozac with the caption: "Prozac: A Breakthrough Drug for Depression."      The fact that the FDA ban of L-Tryptophan and the Newsweek Prozac cover story occurred within four days of each other went unnoticed by both the media and the public. Yet, to those who understand the effective properties of L-Tryptophan and Prozac, the concurrence seems "unbelievably coincidental." The link here is the brain neurotransmitter serotonin — a biochemical nerve signal conductor. The action of Prozac and L-Tryptophan are both involved with serotonin, but in totally different ways.      Elevated levels of serotonin in the body often result in the relief of depression, as well as substantial reduction in pain sensitivity, anxiety and stress. Prozac, as well as other new anti- depressant drugs such as Paxil and Zoloft, attempt to enhance levels of serotonin by working on whatever amounts of it already exist in the body (these drugs are known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors). None of these drugs, however, produce serotonin. In contrast, ingested L-Tryptophan acts to produce serotonin, even in individuals who generate little serotonin of their own. The most effective way to elevate levels of serotonin would be to use a serotonin producer rather than a serotonin enhancer.      The continuing FDA public ban of L-Tryptophan prevents popular access to this most effective serotonin producer. The millions of Americans who for decades safely had relied upon L-Tryptophan to relieve depression, anxiety and PMS, as well as to control pain and induce natural sleep, have been forced elsewhere for solutions. Routinely, such solutions are pharmaceutical in nature: people are forced to use either often highly addictive, expensive, and some- times dangerous drugs like Xanax, Valium, Halcion, Dalmane, Co- deine, Anafranil, Prozac, and others, or, simply suffer.      Present FDA public policy maintains that L-Tryptophan is an untested, unapproved and hazardous drug. The analytical work done a few years ago by the Centers for Disease Control and the Mayo Clinic, research which traced the fall 1989 outbreak of the serious flu-like condition to contaminants found in batches of L-Tryptophan made by the Japanese company Showa Denko, has not convinced the FDA to allow L-Tryptophan back on the market. This decision is based primarily on the research of FDA and NIMH scientists who state that L-Tryptophan itself, irrespective of contaminants, is a dangerous substance. Other university-based research scientists disagree with these findings.      The public availability of L-Tryptophan is too important an issue only to be argued and shrouded within a scientific debate that remains, ultimately, mystifying to the vast majority of Americans. There are many obvious facts worthy of public attention, and public concern. For example, consider the following:      ~ On February 9, 1993, a United States government patent (#5185157) was issued to use L-Tryptophan to treat, and cure EMS, the very same deadly flu-like condition which prompted the FDA to take L-Tryptophan off the market in 1989.      ~ Notwithstanding its public ban and import alert on L- Tryptophan, the FDA today allows Ajinomoto U.S.A. the right to import from Japan human-use L-Tryptophan.  Distributed from the Ajinomoto plant in Raleigh, North Carolina, the L-Tryptophan is then sold to, and through, a network of compounding pharmacies across the United States. Purchased by individuals only under a physician’s order, L-Tryptophan emerges here as a new prescription drug in the serotonin marketplace; one hundred 500 mg capsules cost about $75.00, approximately five times more than if they were sold as a dietary supplement.      Since the FDA holds the political mandate and power of a public regulatory agency established, ostensibly, to protect people from raw corporate interests in drug production and distribution, the actions of the FDA in concert with Ajinomoto U.S.A. are illumi- nating. By publicly banning L-Tryptophan from its dietary supple- ment status and price, while allowing L-Tryptophan to be sold as a high-priced prescription drug, the naked duplicity of FDA L- Tryptophan policy is revealed.      ~ During and after the 1989 EMS outbreak, the FDA did not totally ban the use of L-Tryptophan in humans — then, as today, the FDA has granted the pharmaceutical industry the protected right to use L-Tryptophan in hospital settings.  Manufactured by Abbott Laboratories, the amino acid injectable solutions Aminosyn and Aminosyn II contain as much as 200 mg of L-Tryptophan.  (Moreover, L-Tryptophan has never been removed from baby food produced and sold within the United States.)      ~ While the FDA has banned the public sale and use of safe, non-contaminated, dietary supplement L-Tryptophan for people, the United States Department of Agriculture still sanctions the legal sale and use of non-contaminated L-Tryptophan for animals.  Today, as in the past, feed grade L-Tryptophan continues to be used as a nutritional and bulk feed additive by the commercial hog and chicken farming industry.  Additionally, L-Tryptophan is now available for use by veterinarians in caring for horses and pets.   ~ Outside of the United States, in countries such as Canada, the Netherlands, Germany, England, and others, L-Tryptophan is widely used. Nowhere, have any serious or widespread health problems occurred.      At bottom, the FDA public ban of safe, non-contaminated L- Tryptophan is uneven, expensive, and biased in favor of the phar- maceutical industry. The FDA proscription effectively awards billions of dollars in profits to pharmaceutical companies and their suppliers in the same proportion as it adds billions of unnecessary dollars to the nation’s already bloated health care expenditures.      On June 15, 1993, the FDA Dietary Supplement Task Force published a report on the work it had been doing in the area of developing FDA policy around nutritional supplements. On page two, the report admits, "The Task Force considered various issues in its deliberations, including… what steps are necessary to ensure that the existence of dietary supplements on the market does not act as a disincentive for drug development."      In this case, the FDA has succeeded in carrying out its stated policy goal. With competition from publicly available L-Tryptophan removed, the rapidly expanding market in prescription serotonin drugs — now among them L-Tryptophan itself — contains no major "disincentives" for the massive accumulation of pharmaceutical industry profits.      It is now time for appropriate congressional committees to review openly and aggressively the entire matter of L-Tryptophan. This will provide a needed forum where political, corporate, and scientific issues of FDA L-Tryptophan regulatory policy may be addressed. There exists ample precedent for such hearings: in the 1980’s and early 1990’s, for example, such investigations uncovered FDA favoritism in the approval of generic drugs and the bribery of FDA officials.      The story of L-Tryptophan illustrates a sad and perverse picture of the politics and priorities of public health in America: A safe, dietary-supplement serotonin producer is publicly unavailable to people, while daily fed to animals by corporate agribusiness.  A drug patent is approved to use L-Tryptophan to cure the very condition the FDA claims it caused.  And, while publicly exclaiming that L-Tryptophan is a dangerous and untested drug, the FDA, more quietly, allows human-use L-Tryptophan to be imported, and then marketed and sold by the pharmaceutical industry.       To allow the FDA ban of L-Tryptophan to continue unreviewed and uninvestigated condemns millions of Americans to unnecessary financial expenditures and needless suffering.      1.  This article appeared in Social Policy, Vol. 26, No. 2, Winter 1995.  Dean Wolfe Manders is a senior lecturer in humanities and sciences at the California College of Arts and Crafts, Oakland/San Francisco.  He has lectured and done extensive research on the medical politics of L-Tryptophan.      *Blazing Tattles, June 96.  Responses to the above article may be quoted in future issues unless writer explicitly requests otherwise.  For information about Blazing Tattles send inquiry to: Tattles at P.O. Box 1073, Half Moon Bay, CA 94019.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yet, to those who understand the effective properties of L-Tryptophan and Prozac, the concurrence seems "unbelievably coincidental." The link here is the brain neurotransmitter serotonin — a biochemical nerve signal conductor. The action of Prozac and L-Tryptophan are both involved with serotonin, but in totally different ways.      Elevated levels of serotonin in the body often result in the relief of depression, as well as substantial reduction in pain sensitivity, anxiety and stress. Prozac, as well as other new anti- depressant drugs such as Paxil and Zoloft, attempt to enhance levels of serotonin by working on whatever amounts of it already exist in the body (these drugs are known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors). None of these drugs, however, produce serotonin. In contrast, ingested L-Tryptophan acts to produce serotonin, even in individuals who generate little serotonin of their own. The most effective way to elevate levels of serotonin would be to use a serotonin producer rather than a serotonin enhancer.

Agreed that SSRIs and LTryptophan both work on serotonin. I have used both with good results. The distinction needs to be made that some depressions are more neurologic, others more hormonal or enzymatic. In cases of the former, SSRIs generally work much better, and in the latter, LT works better. I also agree that the continuing FDA ban looks suspicious, and it ought to be lifted immediately. LT is available in 100 g. or larger quantities from veterinary suppliers, at a cost substantially less than prescription LT, though still more than the OTC product once cost. Veterinary LT is molecularly identical to the tryptophan we are interested in here, and purity and quality control are probably higher than most old OTC products. One caveat: if you are taking a SSRI (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor) antidepressent, concurrent LT use is strongly contradicated, as taking both together can produce the potentially lethal ’serotonin syndrome,’ due to toxic levels of 5-HT in the body. –Will

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