Question:

No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system.

It’s fucked all right.  I’m not in the same boat by any means.  My insurance changed this year also, but it turned out to be less money for more coverage.  Many other aren’t so fortunate. Use the anger.  Press your elected representatives to write laws instituting Medical Savings Accounts.  The benefits are numerous. You have your own account, protected by law.  This allows you to chose what coverage you need and who to buy it from.  You can buy a full plan, catastrophic coverage only, or no coverage at all – you simply pay the doctor with funds from the account. The account could also roll over year to year, adding any unused funds to the pool.  The whole thing could earn interest and grow a loittle more, or at least hedge against inflation. Your employer contributes towards your account at the same rate they would pay towards company group insurance.  But they save money because human resources no longer needs to supervise employee insurance plans  They simply provide the money as a tax exempt benefit, and the employee is responsible for the rest. But I’m not holding my breath.  Most people seem content to ask someone else to take care of them, and then spend all their time bitching about how bad they are being cared for.

Response:

I understand, Becky.  My pdoc just dropped out of my insurance plan.  I did not want to start over with another one.  I really, really like him. He is totally awesome. I am going to pay out of pocket to see him, and my PCP will take care of my meds.  But I don’t have to see my pdoc as often as a therapist, so I am going to try to swing it. I’m so sorry you have to face these kind of decisions. Wanda — Always interesting what is revealed about oneself when one guesses at another person’s motives.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system. Becky who can’t shed tears but can sure go on a good rage…… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Does your husband’s employer offer —what’s it called — it’s that thing where they put aside part of his pay *pre-tax* into a medical/health account and you can draw from it within a particular time-period (usually a very strict calendar year) to pay your medical bills. No Wombn his employer doesn’t offer anything like that.  Either way it would probably be easier for us to start a savings account now in prepartion for next year.  Not a bad idea really.  <sigh  Maybe it would keep us ahead of the bill. Where do middle income folks go when they can’t afford insurance on their own and have to rely on their employer?  What do they do? You know the problem really is not to bad regarding the doctors it is regarding the Mental Health services in our country. No one wants to admit we are out here and that we deserve the benefits as everyone else has in seeing a specialized doctor. Because we are dealing with mental health we are put into whole other categories and over looked and railroaded into seeing the people that they handpick—not the folks that we have been with for years. I just fucking amazes me how they are able to get away with what they do not only in mental health issues but in other areas of health care. Hey it isn’t fair but then I learned from a little kid up that most things in life are never fair and nothing ever will be. Becky "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Thank you Fiona…… Hugs….. Becky "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Thanks Minx for caring. It is frustrating as well as infuriating. THESE people do not care. Hell I have to watch my prescriptions now because if the script is for 100+ tabs a month then the doctor has to call the insurance company and have it approved for that amount OR the doctor has to be very careful and make sure they give me the highest dose pill. All because my husband’s work wanted to save a few bucks. I know I know everyone is out for a buck these days.  So us poor folks get stuck up the ass in bills and debt. I am SO pissed off…… Becky Hugs Hugs… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system.

this is horrible. I feel furious just reading this.  It makes me sick.   I hate the insurance industry, I hate we have no socialized care, and I hate you have to go through this. becky, I hope you win this. I hope. minx — "I wouldn’t mind leaving myself behind if I could, but I don’t know the way out." — Elphaba, _Wicked_

Response:

<snip I wish I had a magic wand and could fix this for you Becky. I do have one possibility for you, does the insurance (HMO?) have an out-of-network rate? I know that my evil HMO pays a greater percentage or all of an "in-network" provider, but does pay something when I see an "out-of-network" provider. Of course, my HMO is so notorious around these parts that only two pdocs in reach of me are "in-network," my current pdoc described them as being one he wasn’t too sure of and the other he "wouldn’t let talk to my houseplants." Though this is also the same HMO that won’t pay my medication costs at the higher rate because I could have generic Paxil and Seroquel if I "really wanted them." Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system. Becky who can’t shed tears but can sure go on a good rage…… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Question:

I quit all daiary products may 1 1997 and my asthma is almost gone. What does anybody know anything aabout dairy foods and asthma? Harlan Lee

If your asthma stays in remission, it would indicate that you were/are allergic to milk.  I don’t know of any other connection that milk could have with asthma other than allergic reaction. Yana

Response:

<<I quit all daiary products may 1 1997 and my asthma is almost gone. What does anybody know anything aabout dairy foods and asthma? Harlan Lee

i went to an accupuncturist/holistic medicine specialist for my allergies and asthma. he strongly believes that the high amount of antibiotics given to cows is a bad thing for our immune system and suggested i stop dairy. i have done this, but also stayed on serevent and flovent. connection? don’t know. i do note that the one or two times i strayed and recently had dairy, that i felt some tightness. good health to all…

Response:

I quit all daiary products may 1 1997 and my asthma is almost gone. What does anybody know anything aabout dairy foods and asthma? Harlan Lee

Response:

I quit all daiary products may 1 1997 and my asthma is almost gone. What does anybody know anything aabout dairy foods and asthma? Harlan Lee

This could be a coincidence; I’m not aware of a relationship between asthma and dairy products. Also a 4-month remission is not proof that your asthma is cured. A 12-month remission would be more convincing. There is an article indicating some outgrow their asthma. See http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/library/scan/outgrow.htm American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine          Vol. 155, pp. 1267-1272, Apr. 1997          Adult Patients May Outgrow Their Asthma: A 25-Year Follow-up Study

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I translated it:- I got to thinking and I don’t recall that my insert says anything about interactions. Aleve is a pain reliever, and has naproxim sodium in it. I was using it before, but now my meds are changing around and I am on three steroids, plus Clarintin and I worry. Thanks for all the help so far!!! -AB- Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J

Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol — I took a long look at my life… perhaps you heard the scream that followed? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol

That’s one long-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator, one corticosteroid, and one short-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator. Chris Owens

Response:

I was wondering when someone was going to point that out. Shannon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol That’s one long-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator, one corticosteroid, and one short-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator. Chris Owens

Response:

Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol

Of this list, only Pulmicort is a steroid.  The other two are bronchodilators [serevent = long-acting, albuterol = short-acting]. BIG difference, and used for fundamentally different things. SW.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol —

Serevent and Albuterol are NOT steroids. The inhaled cortical steroids do not affect the body systemically either. — Robert Schuh "There Can be Only One!" Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS! Donate your organs. Save a life.

Response:

I think I translated it:- I got to thinking and I don’t recall that my insert says anything about interactions. Aleve is a pain reliever, and has naproxim sodium in it. I was using it before, but now my meds are changing around and I am on three steroids, plus Clarintin and I worry. Thanks for all the help so far!!! -AB-

Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J

Response:

Does anyone know about if there are any problems with people taking Pulmicourt and using Aleve as a pain reliever? Also, is there anyway to find out the level of steroids from prolonged use of them to control the asthma? -AB- —

I’m not aware of any drug interactions between Pulmicort and Aleve. However, Aleve is an NSAID (naproxen); approx. 15 % of asthmatics are allergic/intolerant of aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen and other NSAIDS, and can experience breathing difficulty from using them. Pulmicort comes in one strength in the US, 200 ug/puff. It doesn’t build up in your system; it’s metabolized over a few hours. Ellis

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – n other words there is no specific information on drug interactions in the leaflet, at least no as supplied in the UK. Dont understand your question? Perhaps, because english is not my motherlanguage, what is aleve. 1. Astra gives you a paper with the medicine (must be!) A comment on this — the ‘physician’s insert’ only comes with meds in the US.  Well, it may come in other countries too, but some countries DO NOT GET IT, including Canada.  it is entirely possible that the original poster comes form a country where this info is not included with the med, and therefore they have no easy access to it. Thank you for this information. In my Germany (what an intact world) the paper must be with the medicine. From " Fachinformation " for Pulmicort Turbohaler published by Astra for physicians and pharmaceutics from Nov. 1998 "…7 Wechselwirkungen mit anderen Mitteln Budesonid normalisiert, wie alle Kortikosteroide, die Ansrechbarkeit auf beta-2 Sympathomimetika. Die Metabolisierung von Budesonid zu 16alpha- Hydroxyprednisolon und 6beta-Hydroxybudesonid wird durch Substanzen gehemmt, die

Question:

: You could be having an allergic reaction to the medication.  This is : something you should report to both your doctor and pharmacist (IMO a : pharmacist tends to do a better job of keeping track of the : medications you shouldn’t take than a doctor does). : There should be no direct problem from abruptly stopping Accolate, : however Rule #2 for asthmatics is: Never stop taking a medication : without checking with a doctor (unless this is covered by an ‘Asthma : Action Plan’). Except in this case, there is the potential for not stopping to be life-threatening.  I believe that the rule is if you get an allergic reaction to some medication, especially things like antibiotics, that you stop the medication first and find a doctor next, the speed depending on how serious the reaction is. : You should try to find a walk-in clinic in your area and consult with : a doctor. I agree entirely, except that I think that it would be a good idea to stop taking the medication if you suspect that it is causing an allergic reaction, and then get your hands on a doctor ASAP. Cheers, Kin Hoong

Response:

If you break out in an itchy blotchy rash after each dose then you should clearly stop the drug. There is no danger inherent to stopping Accolate abruptly other than worsening asthma. If you don’t feel that you were responding tot he Accolate than this should not be a problem. Keep taking the Zyrtec, it may be the only thing stopping a more severe reaction. If your asthma worsens contact your doctor immediately. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. Thanks for your help!! SW.

Response:

HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable.

You could be having an allergic reaction to the medication.  This is something you should report to both your doctor and pharmacist (IMO a pharmacist tends to do a better job of keeping track of the medications you shouldn’t take than a doctor does). There should be no direct problem from abruptly stopping Accolate, however Rule #2 for asthmatics is: Never stop taking a medication without checking with a doctor (unless this is covered by an ‘Asthma Action Plan’). You should try to find a walk-in clinic in your area and consult with a doctor.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. SW.

First, I’m not a doctor, but a well informed asthmatic taking Singulair (sometimes), inhaled steroids (just switching from Vanceril DS to Pulmicort; etc. Antileukotrienes like Accolate and Singulair don’t help all asthmatics, maybe half or 2/3. Your main preventor drug is your inhaled steroids, Pulmicort; and 1600ug is a very High Dose. My advice would be to try stopping Accolate for a while; any drug that can cause an allergic reaction like you described could be dangerous; and if it doesn’t help why take it.[The nice thing about asthma drugs is you can tell whether or not they are working] You may want to try Accolate again after your exacerbation is under control; or try the better drug Singulair. Here’s the Prescribing Info on Accolate: http://www.accolateinfo.com/ http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/zafirlukast.htm zafirlukast Excerpt: "Contraindications: Zafirlukast is contraindicated in patients who are hypersensitive  to zafirlukast or any of its inactive ingredients." My personal experience with a similar drug Singulair is initially it increased my personal best peak flow by 10%. Later I noticed I seemed to have signs of fatigue, and it doesn’t seem to help at all during exacerbations. So now I take it about every other day. It seems to work best when my asthma is relatively well controlled. I have recently had to switch to a higher strength steroid inhaler (Pulmicort) I had hoped the antileukotriene would be a steroid sparing drug, but it doesn’t seem to be the case; tho I think it still helps. Ellis

Response:

Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. Thanks for your help!! SW.

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the man-hating comments. I’m sure others appreciate it too.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

yer welcome,  and i’m usually so quiet’n demure… it WAS’ah stretch. xoxoxoxox ~t

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high.

My first and last cigarette made me feel high. All benzo’s ever did was ease my anxiety… I WANT my money back ! ! ! They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

Not sure if ARPASH (alt.recovery.panic-anxiety.self-help) is still around but as stated in their FAQ "We do not discuss or compare medications". So this may be the group for a_Friend.

Response:

That may prove to be the case, mama. However, I do have some concern about the amount of prescribing and medical information by non-practitioners. I believe it is against the law in most states and provinces to operate as a physican. And I certainly think it is an ethical issue for professionals to be advising others on the appropriate use of medications in an on-line forum. However, "benzos don’t make you high". ROFL. They are one of the most abused substances that phsycians prescribe for that reason. Nice try, no cigar. De Nile is more than just a river in Egypt, Ms. New Oleans.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall. I hope the behaviour is addressed.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

People here merely offer their opinions and share their experiences re medication. In what country/ies are you referring to about the legality of medical advice?

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor.

#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK ! For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history.

#2, MR. MENZA:  WHO does that?  post an example.. and NOT out’ah context.. but just ta make ya right’n give ya grounds ta participate in’ah litigious arena: EVERYONE ::POPPAHCOUPLAHBLUEZ:: IMMEDIATELY, I PRESCRIBE XANAX BLUES OR BARS FOR ALL OF AMERICA !  I AM NOW THA PRESIDENT OF THA WORLD’N THERE’LL BE’AH XANAX IN EVERY POT ! (this is especially attractive for tha stoners of america.) Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

why you gotta keep on with tha rhetoric… "as i recall" is assumed, we can figger that out.  you just like typin? I hope the behaviour is addressed.

3913 SE 26 Del City, OK  73115 there.. yer dreams came true.. it CAN happen ta you.. (you been wishin’ upon stars?  cuz yer hazin’ muh groove, dude.. GET OFF’AH MUH CLOUD !) hey hey hee hee ! ~tanya

Response:

Oh, Tanya: "#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK !" Of course, there are legal issues. Medical practitioners are governed by the ethics and requirements of their licensing colleges as well as the local laws. I would type more slowly, but I don’t think it would help your comprehension. *winks*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. "immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver? this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

I gotta admit, I had to look up at the room topic, too…..making sure that I wasn’t missing something here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

TROLL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves. amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high. They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view.

i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence.

"immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Ask your Doctor!!!!!!

Response:

I’m on 100mg of Zoloft and take it at night. Sometimes I’ll break it in half since I know the lower the dosage the better. I find that the 100mg gives me more anxiety so that’s usually when I’ll go a few days of 50mg….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head? I was on Zoloft for a number of years up until the beginning of 2003.  I used to take 100mg a day most of the time.  However, sometimes during the winter I would start to feel a little worse, so I would take  1 1/2, I would just break the Zoloft.  Other times, especially late spring/summer I would be feeling pretty well so I would only take 1/2 a day. Ask your doctor if he/she thinks it would be OK to take a lower amount of Zoloft.  How long have you been taking it?  Some SSRI’s can make you feel a little worse for a week or two until as your body adjusts.  An there is the possibility that Zoloft may not be right for you.  For example, I just started taking Paxil CR today.  I won’t be taking it again tomorrow.  I just didn’t feel right.  I had tried Paxil a few years ago and only used it for two day and after today, I now remember why I stopped : ) Don’t hesitate to talk to your doc about it, that is what they are there for. Best, JimD

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering.

Actually I find folks in this group the most med-resistant and med-phobic of them all. Prescription meds are stronger and work much more effectively than lavendar oils and tea leaves. The natural route is for your garden variety anxiety. I tried the natural route (needles, herbs, and therapy) for three months and wasted time and money and got my condition worsened. The naturopaths promise healing and "no side effects," but they failed to deliver and, ironically, referred me to the PDocs. The PDocs don’t make promises about anything being free of side effects. Currently they are delivering far more for these folks and for me.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

For many medication is and may remain necessary. Anxiety disorders are most often biological/genetic as well as psychological (*learned behaviour*). CBT is the first choice therapy and taking meds without CBT is not the best treatment. Philip

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

Question:

Thanks… Right now, I am doing quite well handling my depression / not having depression.  I have surounded myself with as many supportive people as possible, and I am doing everything I can to deal with issues cognitivly… However, If I dont get this pain a little better under controal, I am afarid that I might slip into a state of depression, which I of course would perfer not to, as I have worked so hard to get out of it…. jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As Mel has mentioned, Jamie, and Gabe indicates here, the advice we give you and others is from our own experiences and different meds affect people in different ways. In my experience, Buspar was a no-winner for anxiety!  I have been on Doxepin (a TCA) for years, and it works better than anything else I have taken for anxiety.  In fact, that was what it was first prescribed for: anxiety and an aid for sleep.  Some of the older TCAs are better than some of the newer meds, in my own opinion, and certainly cheaper.  For me, an exception would be Elavil, which my Rheumy had me on just to see how I would do on that vs. Doxepin.  After a couple months, I was back to Doxepin, so that is my med of choice. I must add that I have Clinical Depression, so your experience may be different, but anxiety goes hand in hand with depression, of which I’m well aware!  So, the 2 antidepressants that I take are Paxil during the day and Doxepin in late afternoon/evening/bedtime.  Both work well for me.  Nanny Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

Years ago I was prescribed Zoloft for Anxiety and light OCD symptoms. Buspar was later added on top of the Zoloft for anxiety…but I can’t say it did anything.  To me, it was like taking vitamin C.  However, being many years ago, I don’t remember how large the dose was.

Response:

Hi, Matt, I was on Buspar many years ago for a short period of time for anxiety also. I also felt it didn’t do much for my anxiety level.  Then I was put on Xanax for many years and now onto Klonopin.  I prefer the Klonopin, though it isn’t as fast acting as Xanax, since it stays in the body longer.  I take 1 mg twice daily and it does help a lot. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago I was prescribed Zoloft for Anxiety and light OCD symptoms. Buspar was later added on top of the Zoloft for anxiety…but I can’t say it did anything.  To me, it was like taking vitamin C.  However, being many years ago, I don’t remember how large the dose was.

Response:

Research has shown in a couple of studies that high doses of buspar can actually recruit anxiety, whereas the lower doses did not.  I find that the people who are on less than (or equal to) 30 mgs a day seem happiest with it.

I certinally can use it at lower doses.  Then if I find it doesnt do anything then I can drop it…  I think that makes sence, because getting up to 30mg a day should not take too long to get used to… Thanks Jamie

Response:

Actually for some people, the stimulant meds DO have anxiolytic effect, so it’s really not fair to say that they "don’t do shit" for anxiety.  That is true for "most people", but for some, stimulants are calming, which is almost diagnostic for ADD. G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I am off of Effexor now, with my doctors permission.  Only thing I have really noticed in that my Anxeity is up a little bit, and I cant decide if this is: a. a withdrawl symptom from effexor b. effexor was doing a little more to help with my anxeity than I thought…. but anyway, I am feeling pretty decent, and really not too depressed,,, I guess a little stressed, but not to depressed at all…  The initial plan I made with my doctor was to start wellbutrin 150XL and buspar now.  Since I made that plan, I have seen the rheumy, who wants me to try, nortriptline or Amitriptyline, and after discussing this with several of you, it sounds like this is worth a try… Here is where I am stuck…  I don’t want to take more meds than I have to… I know I can always dc them later, but,,, I am wondering if I should start WB and buspar if I know I am going to start a TCA? The question I have that I dont really know the answer to at all is this, Can WB and buspar help reduce the side effects of a TCA the way they can help reduce the side effects of a SSRI?  Would it be reasonalbe to try WB, buspar and a TCA all together and see what happends, and reduce if necessary? I really really really want to avoid the majority of sexual side effects if I can, as I am quite sure I will be depressed from that if I have major sexular side effects…  I know there will be a transition period where I have to take time to get used to the tca, but I cant live on a ongoing basis (espically long term, as using the tca for fibro could be a life long type of thing) with major sexual disfunction…… One last question is this, Is it worth thinking about trying cymbalta first before the TCA, or not since I have already tried effexor?  I know larry commented on this and said that the TCA’s can be quite different from effexor, but does the same hold true for cymbalta, I am guessing it does since they are in the same class (effexor and cymbalta = ssnri)  but I have heard thatt cymbalta is a lot better with pain and such from some people…..  Any thoughs on this?  Sorry to make this so confusing…. Thanks again for your time, and your comments on this…. Jamie

Response:

Gabe’s statement about Cymbalta is correct, however the mechanism by which it has impact on pains (neuropathic) is different than the TCA group, and it’s a little harder to tolerate initially than Effexor.  I would like to hear what the definition of the pains / symptoms are, prior to commenting on this much more.

My pain has been wide spread, in most all of my muscles, but much more severe is some than others.  My legs, often ache, even with rest, then they can progress to sharp pain with exersize.  My hands, arms sholders are in pain with a minumal amount of movement.  Also have neck and back pain, which doesnt usally stay as bad because the chiro treats that… Well it would be WB, buspar, and one of the TCA’s…  Plus tricor, and a painkiller like ultram (but ultram is not working well now), and hopefull with the pain more undercontroal, I will be less fatigured and we can reduce / drop dexidrine.  There is also inderal for migranes, that has helped sooo much that I dont really see droping that… jamie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not agree that one has to choose betw. being depressed or being anxious, nor does the medical community at large. From a strictly statistical standpoint, anxiety is indeed "easier to live with", given the mortality rates of depression, however, again, see above. Buspar has little, if any effect on sexual function, but it also takes a fair amount of time for it to start working – it’s a "partial serotonin agonist", and takes usually 4 to 6 weeks to really start working well – not going to cover that wellbutrin awfully well.  Honestly, I’m not so sure I really like this plan Jamie.  What is the total med list going to be? Gary Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

Atleast anxeity responds very quickly to benzos…. I have not heard of WB causing any weight gain… Wonder if the buspar is causing that?? Jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Crossposted reply: Gabe is correct about wellbutrin and anxiety for sure.  I personally would not want to start that if I was coming off Effexor, but you and your MD Elavil and Pamelor both do the same thing in terms of pain relief, so it’s really a matter of side effect toleration, and yes, Elavil causes more. Usually the starting dose is around 10 mgs of Elavil for sodium channel blockade/NMDA antagonism for chronic pain mgmt. Gabe’s statement about Cymbalta is correct, however the mechanism by which it has impact on pains (neuropathic) is different than the TCA group, and it’s a little harder to tolerate initially than Effexor.  I would like to hear what the definition of the pains / symptoms are, prior to commenting on this much more. I do not agree that one has to choose betw. being depressed or being anxious, nor does the medical community at large. From a strictly statistical standpoint, anxiety is indeed "easier to live with", given the mortality rates of depression, however, again, see above. Buspar has little, if any effect on sexual function, but it also takes a fair amount of time for it to start working – it’s a "partial serotonin agonist", and takes usually 4 to 6 weeks to really start working well – not going to cover that wellbutrin awfully well.  Honestly, I’m not so sure I really like this plan Jamie.  What is the total med list going to be? Gary I’ll add that from what happened to me and others is that Wellbutrin and Buspar. WILL MAKE YOU FAT!  Now that is depressing! And I agree with Gary that Anxiety is easier to control than depression. (IMHO) SnL Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

As Mel has mentioned, Jamie, and Gabe indicates here, the advice we give you and others is from our own experiences and different meds affect people in different ways. In my experience, Buspar was a no-winner for anxiety!  I have been on Doxepin (a TCA) for years, and it works better than anything else I have taken for anxiety.  In fact, that was what it was first prescribed for: anxiety and an aid for sleep.  Some of the older TCAs are better than some of the newer meds, in my own opinion, and certainly cheaper.  For me, an exception would be Elavil, which my Rheumy had me on just to see how I would do on that vs. Doxepin.  After a couple months, I was back to Doxepin, so that is my med of choice. I must add that I have Clinical Depression, so your experience may be different, but anxiety goes hand in hand with depression, of which I’m well aware!  So, the 2 antidepressants that I take are Paxil during the day and Doxepin in late afternoon/evening/bedtime.  Both work well for me.  Nanny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

No, buspar is weight neutral.  As a partial agonist, it functions as a sort of "dimmer switch" (like you might find in a dining room for the light fixture).  If you don’t have enough serotonin, it will boost it up some, and if you have too much it will dampen the serotonin down.  It has limitations on how high or low it can change the levels though, and is really not a particularly great medicine (for a lot of people – maybe not you though…) for anxiety control.  Psychiatrists tell me that it yields particularly poor results in patients who have previously taken benzodiazepines for anxiety. The most common side-effects that people tell me they get from taking it – a disconcerting feeling of dizziness, some nausea, inability to tolerate loud or sharp sounds (all these usually go away in about a month or so) and almost everyone tells me that this drug causes them vivid dreams, often frightening and very colorful and/or violent.  I have never had a single person tell me that this drug caused them to gain weight – there may be people who have though, I just haven’t met them.  Prescribing literature describes weight gain as "infrequent", which means it happens more often than if it was cited as "rare".  The dizziness is BY FAR the thing that is most bitterly complained about, and almost virtually universal. Research has shown in a couple of studies that high doses of buspar can actually recruit anxiety, whereas the lower doses did not.  I find that the people who are on less than (or equal to) 30 mgs a day seem happiest with it. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Atleast anxeity responds very quickly to benzos…. I have not heard of WB causing any weight gain… Wonder if the buspar is causing that?? Jamie Crossposted reply: Gabe is correct about wellbutrin and anxiety for sure.  I personally would not want to start that if I was coming off Effexor, but you and your MD Elavil and Pamelor both do the same thing in terms of pain relief, so it’s really a matter of side effect toleration, and yes, Elavil causes more. Usually the starting dose is around 10 mgs of Elavil for sodium channel blockade/NMDA antagonism for chronic pain mgmt. Gabe’s statement about Cymbalta is correct, however the mechanism by which it has impact on pains (neuropathic) is different than the TCA group, and it’s a little harder to tolerate initially than Effexor.  I would like to hear what the definition of the pains / symptoms are, prior to commenting on this much more. I do not agree that one has to choose betw. being depressed or being anxious, nor does the medical community at large. From a strictly statistical standpoint, anxiety is indeed "easier to live with", given the mortality rates of depression, however, again, see above. Buspar has little, if any effect on sexual function, but it also takes a fair amount of time for it to start working – it’s a "partial serotonin agonist", and takes usually 4 to 6 weeks to really start working well – not going to cover that wellbutrin awfully well.  Honestly, I’m not so sure I really like this plan Jamie.  What is the total med list going to be? Gary I’ll add that from what happened to me and others is that Wellbutrin and Buspar. WILL MAKE YOU FAT!  Now that is depressing! And I agree with Gary that Anxiety is easier to control than depression. (IMHO) SnL Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

I am not sure they are quite calming, but they normally dont make my anxeity freak out like I would have though they would.  The pschylogists have always diagnosised me with ADD and GAD, so maybe I am getting a patial benefit from the stimulant in terms of anxeity, or atleast that might explain why it doesnt make it much worse… jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually for some people, the stimulant meds DO have anxiolytic effect, so it’s really not fair to say that they "don’t do shit" for anxiety.  That is true for "most people", but for some, stimulants are calming, which is almost diagnostic for ADD. G HI, I am off of Effexor now, with my doctors permission.  Only thing I have really noticed in that my Anxeity is up a little bit, and I cant decide if this is: a. a withdrawl symptom from effexor b. effexor was doing a little more to help with my anxeity than I thought…. but anyway, I am feeling pretty decent, and really not too depressed,,, I guess a little stressed, but not to depressed at all…  The initial plan I made with my doctor was to start wellbutrin 150XL and buspar now.  Since I made that plan, I have seen the rheumy, who wants me to try, nortriptline or Amitriptyline, and after discussing this with several of you, it sounds like this is worth a try… Here is where I am stuck…  I don’t want to take more meds than I have to… I know I can always dc them later, but,,, I am wondering if I should start WB and buspar if I know I am going to start a TCA? The question I have that I dont really know the answer to at all is this, Can WB and buspar help reduce the side effects of a TCA the way they can help reduce the side effects of a SSRI?  Would it be reasonalbe to try WB, buspar and a TCA all together and see what happends, and reduce if necessary? I really really really want to avoid the majority of sexual side effects if I can, as I am quite sure I will be depressed from that if I have major sexular side effects…  I know there will be a transition period where I have to take time to get used to the tca, but I cant live on a ongoing basis (espically long term, as using the tca for fibro could be a life long type of thing) with major sexual disfunction…… One last question is this, Is it worth thinking about trying cymbalta first before the TCA, or not since I have already tried effexor?  I know larry commented on this and said that the TCA’s can be quite different from effexor, but does the same hold true for cymbalta, I am guessing it does since they are in the same class (effexor and cymbalta = ssnri)  but I have heard thatt cymbalta is a lot better with pain and such from some people…..  Any thoughs on this?  Sorry to make this so confusing…. Thanks again for your time, and your comments on this…. Jamie

Response:

HI, I am off of Effexor now, with my doctors permission.  Only thing I have really noticed in that my Anxeity is up a little bit, and I cant decide if this is: a. a withdrawl symptom from effexor b. effexor was doing a little more to help with my anxeity than I thought…. but anyway, I am feeling pretty decent, and really not too depressed,,, I guess a little stressed, but not to depressed at all…  The initial plan I made with my doctor was to start wellbutrin 150XL and buspar now.  Since I made that plan, I have seen the rheumy, who wants me to try, nortriptline or Amitriptyline, and after discussing this with several of you, it sounds like this is worth a try… Here is where I am stuck…  I don’t want to take more meds than I have to… I know I can always dc them later, but,,, I am wondering if I should start WB and buspar if I know I am going to start a TCA? The question I have that I dont really know the answer to at all is this, Can WB and buspar help reduce the side effects of a TCA the way they can help reduce the side effects of a SSRI?  Would it be reasonalbe to try WB, buspar and a TCA all together and see what happends, and reduce if necessary? I really really really want to avoid the majority of sexual side effects if I can, as I am quite sure I will be depressed from that if I have major sexular side effects…  I know there will be a transition period where I have to take time to get used to the tca, but I cant live on a ongoing basis (espically long term, as using the tca for fibro could be a life long type of thing) with major sexual disfunction…… One last question is this, Is it worth thinking about trying cymbalta first before the TCA, or not since I have already tried effexor?  I know larry commented on this and said that the TCA’s can be quite different from effexor, but does the same hold true for cymbalta, I am guessing it does since they are in the same class (effexor and cymbalta = ssnri)  but I have heard thatt cymbalta is a lot better with pain and such from some people…..  Any thoughs on this?  Sorry to make this so confusing…. Thanks again for your time, and your comments on this…. Jamie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I am off of Effexor now, with my doctors permission.  Only thing I have really noticed in that my Anxeity is up a little bit, and I cant decide if this is: a. a withdrawl symptom from effexor b. effexor was doing a little more to help with my anxeity than I thought…. but anyway, I am feeling pretty decent, and really not too depressed,,, I guess a little stressed, but not to depressed at all…  The initial plan I made with my doctor was to start wellbutrin 150XL and buspar now. Since I made that plan, I have seen the rheumy, who wants me to try, nortriptline or Amitriptyline, and after discussing this with several of you, it sounds like this is worth a try… Here is where I am stuck…  I don’t want to take more meds than I have to… I know I can always dc them later, but,,, I am wondering if I should start WB and buspar if I know I am going to start a TCA? The question I have that I dont really know the answer to at all is this, Can WB and buspar help reduce the side effects of a TCA the way they can help reduce the side effects of a SSRI?

Just a guess: Probably, except that the TCA is likely to have more unpleasant side effects than the SSRI. Would it be reasonalbe to try WB, buspar and a TCA all together and see what happends, and reduce if necessary?

As much sense as it would to take an SSRI with the others and tailer the others. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I really really really want to avoid the majority of sexual side effects if I can, as I am quite sure I will be depressed from that if I have major sexular side effects…  I know there will be a transition period where I have to take time to get used to the tca, but I cant live on a ongoing basis (espically long term, as using the tca for fibro could be a life long type of thing) with major sexual disfunction…… One last question is this, Is it worth thinking about trying cymbalta first before the TCA, or not since I have already tried effexor?  I know larry commented on this and said that the TCA’s can be quite different from effexor, but does the same hold true for cymbalta, I am guessing it does since they are in the same class (effexor and cymbalta = ssnri)  but I have heard thatt cymbalta is a lot better with pain and such from some people…..  Any thoughs on this?  Sorry to make this so confusing…. Thanks again for your time, and your comments on this…. Jamie

– Nom dePlume, Ph.D. Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist. Guide to Medications for Mental Illness: http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/ =====

Response:

Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

Gabe is correct about wellbutrin and anxiety for sure.  I personally would not want to start that if I was coming off Effexor, but you and your MD must Elavil and Pamelor both do the same thing in terms of pain relief, so it’s really a matter of side effect toleration, and yes, Elavil causes more. Usually the starting dose is around 10 mgs of Elavil for sodium channel blockade/NMDA antagonism for chronic pain mgmt. Gabe’s statement about Cymbalta is correct, however the mechanism by which it has impact on pains (neuropathic) is different than the TCA group, and it’s a little harder to tolerate initially than Effexor.  I would like to hear what the definition of the pains / symptoms are, prior to commenting on this much more. I do not agree that one has to choose betw. being depressed or being anxious, nor does the medical community at large. From a strictly statistical standpoint, anxiety is indeed "easier to live with", given the mortality rates of depression, however, again, see above. Buspar has little, if any effect on sexual function, but it also takes a fair amount of time for it to start working – it’s a "partial serotonin agonist", and takes usually 4 to 6 weeks to really start working well – not going to cover that wellbutrin awfully well.  Honestly, I’m not so sure I really like this plan Jamie.  What is the total med list going to be? Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

Crossposted reply:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gabe is correct about wellbutrin and anxiety for sure.  I personally would not want to start that if I was coming off Effexor, but you and your MD Elavil and Pamelor both do the same thing in terms of pain relief, so it’s really a matter of side effect toleration, and yes, Elavil causes more. Usually the starting dose is around 10 mgs of Elavil for sodium channel blockade/NMDA antagonism for chronic pain mgmt. Gabe’s statement about Cymbalta is correct, however the mechanism by which it has impact on pains (neuropathic) is different than the TCA group, and it’s a little harder to tolerate initially than Effexor.  I would like to hear what the definition of the pains / symptoms are, prior to commenting on this much more. I do not agree that one has to choose betw. being depressed or being anxious, nor does the medical community at large. From a strictly statistical standpoint, anxiety is indeed "easier to live with", given the mortality rates of depression, however, again, see above. Buspar has little, if any effect on sexual function, but it also takes a fair amount of time for it to start working – it’s a "partial serotonin agonist", and takes usually 4 to 6 weeks to really start working well – not going to cover that wellbutrin awfully well.  Honestly, I’m not so sure I really like this plan Jamie.  What is the total med list going to be? Gary

I’ll add that from what happened to me and others is that Wellbutrin and Buspar. WILL MAKE YOU FAT!  Now that is depressing! And I agree with Gary that Anxiety is easier to control than depression. (IMHO) SnL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m a bit confused about what you are on but I’ve had a lot of experience with TCAs. First of all, ditch Elavil (amitryptilene). It is the king of side effects, a dinosaur. Nortryp really is a toss-up. It has helped a lot of people and it is marked for pain relief. It hits NE with a negligible effect on serotonin. It’s pretty good for anxiety. My experience is — and I’ve seen this echoed in the anxiety group — if you are having anxiety don’t be afraid of the TCAs. Nortryp is prob the best and most balanced. As for going off Effexor it’s tough to tell. I can tell you that wellbutrin in prob 90 percent of people worsens anxiety. Effexor withdrawl is tough and long-lasting for many. So it could be the source of the anxiety if you hadn’t really had it before. I don’t know jack about Cymbalta except that it hits NE faster and at lower doses than Effexor. Supposedly. This is all anecdotal- based on some reseach- but mainly other people’s and my experiences. Finally, sometimes you really have to choose btwn depression and anxiety. Like WB for example, won’t do shit for anxiety, but may lift you into a less depressed, more anxious state. So you have to think?? There is prob no perfect solution, which is worse. I find anxiety much easier to live with honestly. There’s excersise of course, or just getting used to it. As for sexual side effects, the serotonin drugs hit that harder than the NE dopamine drugs. And buspar is a total mystery for me. Gabe

Response:

Question:

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to her pain meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a sales person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that have gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her plenty of pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong with you when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and maybe some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp

beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder. Anyway, my Pain Management Specialist put me on Oxy and Hydrocodone for the pain and Trazadone for depression. My rheumy told me NOT to take Hydrocodone and changed the Trazadone to Paxil. I think you are right….MDs respond to sales persons. Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am still getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina "BEVERLY" <sw…@swbell.net

wrote in message

news:3B331F47.C189BD6E@swbell.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to

her pain

meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a

sales

person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that

have

gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her

plenty of

pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong

with you

when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and

maybe

some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp beverly Serafina wrote: Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to

take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor, this one’s not taking you seriously. love, catherine "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

What mail reader are you using? "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:TaHY6.3567$F5.1183702@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com…

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder.

SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am

still

getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina

Response:

Thank you…  that is exactly what I intend to do.  THere is a large Lupus clinic with 7 doctors In Asheville N.C.  All they do is work with Lupus Patients. Isn’t is sad that Lupus is so mistreated.  I am sure that if I had AIDS, the doctors would be jumping all over me to HELP.  But for Lupus,  too many doctors pass themselves off as Experts and Gods and most of them have not picked up a Lupus journal or book in over 10 years…. so, what else is new? …….       Serafina "canuckian" <canuckian…@spam.freeze.com

wrote in message

news:_vTX6.38053$TW.189786@tor-nn1.netcom.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor,

this > one’s not taking you seriously. > love, > catherine > "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

> news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… > > Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My > > internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the > chest > > cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. > > Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should

he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

The difference in opinions would definitely be frustrating.  You might try asking them upon what they base their opinions.  After that, you might think about a third opinion.   As for the pain medication, I guess I have a different point of view than your rheumy. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with taking a medication for its intended purpose.  Using a medication appropriately is not abuse.  I also don’t believe in suffering if there is a way to prevent or minimize it.  People who are in constant pain aren’t able to be productive and can end up with poor quality of life.  As to whether one can become an addict while taking a pain medication, I wouldn’t say it couldn’t ever happen.  I do think though that its a secondary concern when someone is suffering from significant pain.  I also don’t believe that addiction itself is a common result of using pain medication appropriately.  Dependence certainly, but not necessarily addiction.  Just my opinion. Anyway, regarding the Paxil versus the Trazadone, you might try consulting a psychiatrist about which would be better.  They’re the true experts when it comes to psychiatric medications.  You might also want to consider asking for a referral to a pain clinic. I’ve known a number of other people who went to pain clinics.  Some were very happy with it and other not.  I don’t know which would be the case for you, but it could be worth a try.   P.S.  My daughter’s first rheumatologist was absolutely certain that my daughter did not have lupus just two weeks before he himself diagnosed her with it (with absolute certainty) and even recommended aggressive treatment. Sandra

Response:

In article <cZIX6.169731$I5.48627…@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com

, Serafina

<nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Quote from a talk by a consultant at this year’s Lupus UK conference: *IS* it Lupus? Many of Lupus’s common symptoms overlap with Fibromyalgia (henceforth ‘FM’) also called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – eg sleep that does not refresh you; vivid dreams; tired-all-day; leaden limbs. Up to 80% of Lupies show FM symptoms. Stress triggers both Lupus and FM. However the treatment is different – in particular, *steroids make FM worse*. For FM, new antidepressant drugs used at 1/20 – 1/10 of full dose can produce refreshing sleep, and also relieve pain that NSAIDs like Aspirin doesn’t. Also, NON-COMPETITIVE exercise is good, ie you don’t try to beat other people, and you don’t set yourself targets like ‘I’ll do 20 lengths today, 21 tomorrow and so on’. end quote Note his point that steroids make Fibromyalgia worse. That’s why your doctors need to get it right! — Andy For Austrian philately <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/

For Lupus <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/

For my other interests <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/

Response:

hi serafina! so you went to another uncocerned rheumy.dont stop there even though its hard you’ll find one that will listen to you .i had to got to about five doctors before i found a rheumy and he gve me a referral to a pain mgmnt.and thry are just great!i hve sle,fibro ctd,copd and am a mental pt.so i hve many problems.i go to the pain mgnt center on this thursday.there going to inject steriods into my body.i hope its for the best.i’ll let you know.have you ever had brain fog i ask my mental health dr.and she said yes taking all the meds im taking.its possiable.so when i spell somethuing word please try and de code ok. beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Hello well well another doctor jumping the gun on what is wrong with someone. Gee is that news… I am so sorry that you have to go through a whole bunch of stuff before someone sees you as a person as well as a patient. this also happened to me, told fibro and then had xray and was told ruptured disc.  I think some docs find this as a good diagnosis for just about anything.  Although fibro is indeed a debilitating illness. The ANA is not an indicator of lupus, it can be negative, that does not mean that it is or isn;’t lupus.  There are many more test to determine this. Have you tried steroids given by the doctor, if they do help then it may not be fibro.  Fibro is worse when someone takes steroids. Sure the hydocodone is addictive, but if it helps you should ask him why in the world would he want you to be in pain if it does INDEED help you. I would ask him right out.  Do you think I am nuts here???? I have done that, boy they back right down on that.  I also think that if you are not satisfied with this doctor there are others around who will help you A second opinion is always welcome here. What kind of blood tests did he take, get the name,  also ask if he did a sed rate to see if indeed there is inflammation present in the body. Go to KCat, here I go again, and get a list of lab tests necessary. then ask him why in the world would he not want to really check it out. I hope you get some help here. Get another opinion… janers

Response:

Hi Serafina, I can only say that I can understand your frustration,and anger. Perhaps the blood work he ordered will prove him wrong. I think most of us have experienced the same thing. I have often said that the specialists almost have to be hit in the face before they can see it. Get another referral if you are not satisfied;but above all, don’t doubt yourself. I got the runaround for many years too. Then all hell broke loose for me physically,and bingo, a diagnosis. My daughter often asks if it makes me angry because I was not being heard all those years, particularly because the symptoms should have been so obvious. Some times I feel cheated,but I’m still here in spite of all the medical mistakes.You can be sure that I am thinking about you even though we have never met. BJ "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

This is  a commen problem alot of us have gone through unfortunatly. I went through 4 Rheumies before I found one that took it serious. It is so frustrating I would ask your internist is there another rheumy to see second opinion? Good Luck and hang in there Cindy

Response:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:03:52 GMT, "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion.

your rheumy is seeing a somewhat low positive ANA and deciding that this is reason enough to say "no lupus".  My rheumy responded the same way *on that matter*.  However….

Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive.

okay – Paxil is a decent drug for many. Some people see improvement in pain syndromes (be they FMS or SLE Or whatever) with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor).  [note, I did not say "selective" SRIs – Effexor also works on other neurotransmitters).  Effexor relieved my joint pain for about 4 months or less.   This had me believing that it was "all in my head" – but when the pain returned with a vengeance despite continuing on the med, I came away from agreeing with the doctor.  But this doctor is probably assuming that Paxil will lessen your pain and therefore remove your need for trazadone or pain meds.  Trazadone is good for headache problems but not as good for other pain.  Great for sleep though.   you might check with some of the FM support groups to determine if they have had relief from Paxil more so than from Trazadone.

I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil.

I don’t know much about MGN3 and MSM but the Flaxseed Oil is a known anti-inflammatory as well as having other health benefits. I recommend *against* discontinuing it.  ie. – he’s wrong on that one IMO.  As far as getting addicted – well, everyone here that knows me, knows my opinion on this.  Recently two conflicting papers were found in medical journals and depending on the doctor, some took the view I have (you’re in pain, why should you have to suffer, treating pain properly – before it becomes overwhelming – means having to use less pain meds and so on)  some took the other view (pain meds are dangerous, blah, blah, blah).  Gee, can you tell I’m opinionated on this one? for more of my rambling *opinion* you can read my site (new meds, new me) which has a discussion of my experience and what I’ve learned from others about pain meds.  I have taken Lortab (hydrocodone) for 3 years now – as needed.  Some times that meant every day for several weeks, sometimes that meant once a week for several months.  I’ve had one dose in the last three weeks.  so despite three years of access to the drug I have not become addicted or even dependent on it.  I am dependent on Ultram but not addicted – i forget to take it now and then and pay the price.  It is not "recommended" to combine Ultram with SRIs (or other antidepressants) nor with Hydrocodone – but frankly, I’ve had no problem the last three years in taking the occasional Hydrocodone while on a daily dose of Ultram.

I think I want to hit this guy.

be my guest, invite him to my place and we’ll rearrange his thinking…

He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

go back to your internist.  Discuss this with him.  Discuss the issues of pain control (there are other methods that can be used in tandem with hydrocodone or in place of it).  I will try to find the articles re: pain control that were posted here some time ago.  My MIL’s doctor agrees with me that chronic sleep and pain problems are undertreated. The thing is, if you’re going to self-medicate (ie., take drugs you don’t need physically because you want them psychologically) you’re going to do it whether it’s hydrocodone or alcohol or chocolate or… get my drift?  Your internist will know your history as far as how you’ve treated your pain meds and since this doctor (rheumy) seems to care little for the discomfort of his patients, then perhaps a pain specialist is in order.  my doc (rheumy) watches my refill pattern and so does the pharmacy – so if I were to start taking the drugs improperly she would know immediately and I’d lose the privelege I have of being allowed to control my own pain. I have found that yoga and other forms of meditation have helped me considerably on joint pain and even the migraines – not a cure by any means, but a good coping mechanism. one last thing to consider – I think rheumies are seeing a *lot* of women with lupus-like symptoms right now as people are becoming more and more aware of the disease via the ‘net mostly.  So I think for some of the there is a sort of backlash – they’ve been taught this is a "rare" disease and are not willing to come away from that outdated thinking.  In addition, some rheumies will refuse to diagnose without major organ involvement because of insurance reasons.  I have learned to live without a firm diagnosis mostly because a) my rhuemy does not discount my pain  b) my rheumy provides plaquenil to help keep flares under control – thereby stating that some sort of autoimmune process is going on and c) I realize that as long as I don’t have that firm diagnosis it means I am not "that" sick.  Hurt like hell sometimes, feel like giving up sometimes, but most of the time aware that these are "mild" symptoms (nothing to do with the level of pain but just the level of risk to my life) and that I can deal with those one way or another.  It is my family doctor that doesn’t like the meds I’m on – but she defers to my rhueumy on this one.  I dont’ know if this is your first rhuematologist visit but if it is, you might consider talking to other lupus patients (and FM and so on) in a local support group to get their feelings on their doctors. kcat the verbose. good luck *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Question:

Richard: My psychiatrist just increased my Prozac to 30MG per day.  He’s reluctant to switch me to anything else since I had previously had a good response from Prozac.  Just be careful in increasing doses….. I was told that as doses of SSRIs increase, so does the risk of seizures.  I would assume that the doses would have to be tremendously high, but it may be worth it to have your serum levels of Prozac tested.  Finally, you may have to pay out of pocket for the test as most insurance companies still consider testing serum levels of Prozac to be experimental.  I haven’t had my blood drawn yet, so I’ll find out if United will or will not pay. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,      Thank you. I take 3×20mg Prozac with oxycontin and dilaudid. I thought that I was not getting the same relief from depression as when I use to take only 20 mg Prozac before I was hurt. Very interesting. I hate to switch to a tri-cyclic a-d,  but I might have to. I’ll check with my doc. Thanks Peace,   Richard Sullivan

Response:

  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (inyour experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expectfrom the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes thepain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?

Your doc could titrate your meds up til you get the relief you need.  Also, he could prescribe something for breakthru pain, such as MSIR,or  OXYir.

Response:

Richard: Thank you SO much for taking the time to write.  To add to this information that seems to be little discussed, my Psychiatrist told me about some of the downsides to pain meds: ravenous appetite decreased libido dry mucus membranes (from the anticholinergic <sp? effects) personality change (anywhere from mild to severe) Plus, anyone out there on any anti-depressants, particularly the SSRI (Prozac, Effexor, etc), you may want to have your doc have serum levels for all meds taken.  Evidently, Oxycontin and these SSRI meds use the SAME liver enzyme pathway (P450) for metabolism.  Depending on the individual person, you may not receive the full benefits from one of the meds as the other one is "winning" out for dominance in the bloodstream.  Also, I was cautioned NOT to take Elavil (Amytriptoline) as an adjunct for pain mgmt as Oxycodone will increase the serum levels of Elavil as much as 400%. I’m not an MD, nor a pharmacist, but I thought that I’d share this info from personal experience. Thanks again for your help! Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,      I guess it depends on what is ailing us, but on my first visit to my pain clinic, the evaluating Doc told me I would always have pain. He told me I would have remissions where the pain is so low it is like there is none. Not to be a downer but as someone recently said, that’s why we are called chronic. As far as Oxycontin, I have had good luck with it 6 months as my main med. I have never found it to be much longer lasting than 4 or 5 hours, but I like the fact it is clean of additives. After being moved up to where I could take 80 mg 4/day, I still wake up with a pain " alarm clock ". Right know I am shooting for a reduction in my average daily pain. Something we don’t talk alot about is something you brought up. I have gained over 40lbs since I got hurt. One of my meds has given me a sweet tooth, and my suspicion has always been on the oxycontin. Good luck. Peace, Richard

Response:

Jeff,      Thank you. I take 3×20mg Prozac with oxycontin and dilaudid. I thought that I was not getting the same relief from depression as when I use to take only 20 mg Prozac before I was hurt. Very interesting. I hate to switch to a tri-cyclic a-d,  but I might have to. I’ll check with my doc. Thanks Peace,   Richard Sullivan

Response:

Jeff, I too was started on 20mg. Within 6 months I was taking 160 mg. every 6 to 8 hours (and even that wasn’t holding me, when the Dr. asked me  to tell him Honestly was it holding) I soon saw that in the end it came to taking the pain medicine same rate as I was taking short acting meds.I went off of oxycontin when I had to take 560mg. a day. My Doc.. believes in giving what it takes and knows  it’s not some personal vendetta towards him that my tolerance is high. For some Oxycontin works very, very well. For me I was put on 300mg of methadone a day along with 16 mg. of daludid(?) up to every 4 hours.(which is to much for me, knocks me out. (My docs say I have a system the size of a large You WILL find the right dose for yourself. Just be honest with your pain doc. Let us know how you are doing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Thank you for taking the time to write a response….  just to give additional info, a neurosurgeon did the second operation at the lumbar area. The MRI and Myelogram showed that there is considerable scar tissue not only on the disc, but also on the nerve root itself.  When they did an EMG study, it showed the first level of nerve damage.  I have a feeling that’s why they’re reluctant to do any further surgeries.  If you know of any websites that would be useful in my researching new and cutting-edge procedures, I would REALLY appreciate it as my docs are grateful that I take an active part in my treatment and welcome the research that I find. Thanks again, Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, If Oxycontin completely erased pain, I think it would be touted as the "Miracle Drug"!  It helps me greatly, but never totally takes the pain away. When you say that you are going to be on Opiates for a long, long time, –may I make a suggestion?  Do with it what you please, but, I had one failed surgery before I met my neuro-surgeon (an orthopaedic surgeon did the failed surgery) and at that time had the same opinion as you, "I am NEVER having surgery again" and "I will just take the pills for the rest of my life"…although taking them again at some point in time may be inevitable, I think you owe yourself a chance at letting your neuro take a shot at fixing it.  I did and what a difference!  It has been 5 weeks now since I have had surgery, and the difference was noticed the same day that I had surgery.  My back is not yet perfect, it may never be, but I am not having to take opiates at this time, I feel like I have my brain back. I don’t know, I just thought to myself, I don’t want to be "ruled" by a little pill for the rest of my life if at all possible, if this operation works, yay! if it helps, good! and well, if it does not make the difference, well, then I am no worse off than I was before. Food for thought, I hope this helps, good luck! Cfische Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Jeff,      I guess it depends on what is ailing us, but on my first visit to my pain clinic, the evaluating Doc told me I would always have pain. He told me I would have remissions where the pain is so low it is like there is none. Not to be a downer but as someone recently said, that’s why we are called chronic. As far as Oxycontin, I have had good luck with it 6 months as my main med. I have never found it to be much longer lasting than 4 or 5 hours, but I like the fact it is clean of additives. After being moved up to where I could take 80 mg 4/day, I still wake up with a pain " alarm clock ". Right know I am shooting for a reduction in my average daily pain. Something we don’t talk alot about is something you brought up. I have gained over 40lbs since I got hurt. One of my meds has given me a sweet tooth, and my suspicion has always been on the oxycontin. Good luck. Peace, Richard

Response:

Jeff, If Oxycontin completely erased pain, I think it would be touted as the "Miracle Drug"!  It helps me greatly, but never totally takes the pain away. When you say that you are going to be on Opiates for a long, long time, –may I make a suggestion?  Do with it what you please, but, I had one failed surgery before I met my neuro-surgeon (an orthopaedic surgeon did the failed surgery) and at that time had the same opinion as you, "I am NEVER having surgery again" and "I will just take the pills for the rest of my life"…although taking them again at some point in time may be inevitable, I think you owe yourself a chance at letting your neuro take a shot at fixing it.  I did and what a difference!  It has been 5 weeks now since I have had surgery, and the difference was noticed the same day that I had surgery.  My back is not yet perfect, it may never be, but I am not having to take opiates at this time, I feel like I have my brain back. I don’t know, I just thought to myself, I don’t want to be "ruled" by a little pill for the rest of my life if at all possible, if this operation works, yay! if it helps, good! and well, if it does not make the difference, well, then I am no worse off than I was before. Food for thought, I hope this helps, good luck! Cfische

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip Well then. There’s the confusion right there. Karen

I told you so. I confuse easily. Philip

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip Well then. There’s the confusion right there. Karen I told you so. I confuse easily. Philip

*Confuse-a-cashier* seems to be the favorite pass time for some of my more inebriated customers. Karen  :D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip Well then. There’s the confusion right there. Karen OK..let me get this right. One is a boy…the other is a girl..or is it one is a girl, and THE OTHER a boy?? So that means you have four kids? Or..no..sorry..you have one that is a cross-dresser?? Or am I just one drawer short of a dresser? Aww darn it..I am really confused now. I better go take some Zantac now. Actually…my stomach is a bit upset..maybe I wil try that 75 mg’s of Xanax. That is the correct dose, right?? Better make that 150mg’s. If I take a "little" extra..that won’t hurt, right?? Funny, but I don’t even remember what happened the last time I took Xanax. Zantac is the same as Zoloft, right?? They both start with "Z", so they must be the same. Well..the bottle says take 400mg’s per hour as needed. Ok…I’ll take the Zoloft and Xanax. So, 150mg’s of Xanax….and..well….maybe I’ll make up for the lost hours of the day by multiplying my Zoloft dose per hour..so…say 3000 mg’s of Zoloft. Ok. Glad these thingy sheets that the pharmacies give you really help. Ohh..and since we are on the topic..Vallium MUST be the same as Viagara, because they both start with "V", right? 100mg’s of Vallium…100mg’s of Viagara…Cool. I should have a nice productive day then. Cheers…here’s to better living through chemistry.. James

before I had my hourly allowance of caffeine. It actually made sense to me. Karen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip Well then. There’s the confusion right there. Karen

OK..let me get this right. One is a boy…the other is a girl..or is it one is a girl, and THE OTHER a boy?? So that means you have four kids? Or..no..sorry..you have one that is a cross-dresser?? Or am I just one drawer short of a dresser? Aww darn it..I am really confused now. I better go take some Zantac now. Actually…my stomach is a bit upset..maybe I wil try that 75 mg’s of Xanax. That is the correct dose, right?? Better make that 150mg’s. If I take a "little" extra..that won’t hurt, right?? Funny, but I don’t even remember what happened the last time I took Xanax. Zantac is the same as Zoloft, right?? They both start with "Z", so they must be the same. Well..the bottle says take 400mg’s per hour as needed. Ok…I’ll take the Zoloft and Xanax. So, 150mg’s of Xanax….and..well….maybe I’ll make up for the lost hours of the day by multiplying my Zoloft dose per hour..so…say 3000 mg’s of Zoloft. Ok. Glad these thingy sheets that the pharmacies give you really help. Ohh..and since we are on the topic..Vallium MUST be the same as Viagara, because they both start with "V", right? 100mg’s of Vallium…100mg’s of Viagara…Cool. I should have a nice productive day then. Cheers…here’s to better living through chemistry.. James

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen

But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Yup, I am *naturally* absent-minded!! Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) Hey, don`t you start picking on me<VBG. Honey, I have a heck of alot more *left* than you do. Jackie

Really? Oh well, have it your way. You have more *left* but I’m always *right*. Philip (hehe) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?) I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen But it’s the other way around: one is a girl and the other is a boy ) Philip

Well then. There’s the confusion right there. Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?)

I can understand where you might have a problem with telling your two children apart if they are very close in age. But not if one is a boy and one is a girl. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Although I am not tapering off of Xanax as yet I will have to eventually.

Why?  As long as the med. is working for you and the doc won`t cut you off?   Different story if one is abusing the drug. Dan

Response:

Although I am not tapering off of Xanax as yet I will have to eventually. Why?  As long as the med. is working for you and the doc won`t cut you off?  Different story if one is abusing the drug. Dan

Dan, I am into my 6th week on Zoloft and can take up to 3 .25mg Xanax a day.  If the Zoloft works for anxiety/depression I want to get off of the Xanax even though I know I am on a very low dosage, if not I will stay on them.  The less pills I take the better I feel about it. Gene in New Jersey if not I will stay on it.  

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Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other )

Yup, I am *naturally* absent-minded!! Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?)

Hey, don`t you start picking on me<VBG. Honey, I have a heck of alot more *left* than you do. Jackie "The male brain is like a railroad freight car…. guaranteed to have a certain capacity but often running empty."

Response:

I am new to xanax I do forget things alot and tend to forget what I was talking about right in the middle of a discussion but, I can handle that part just not the dizziness! I am alot better on the medicine then off      Melissa

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain

Great! You’re *natural*, you’re really *gifted*. I have two children and never could tell one from the other ) Philip (*left?* you mean there *was* something?)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy ) Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain

I’ve got a benzo brain.  It can be a bother sometime, but it beats an anxiety attack any day; besides, I’m a bit absent minded anyway. God bless,   Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy )

Philip, this is me you described!!! I have always been like this, and I don`t take benzo`s. I drive my kids nuts by asking them over and over about things, such as did you do your homework, did you take the garbage out, and what is your name again?<VBG Jackie nothing right in my left brain…nothing left in my right brain

Response:

I never heard of losing memory and xanax..Whats that all about?

Some short-term memory impairment is a well known and common Xanax side effect. This has caused the term *benzo brain* to come into being. Most of the time it’s nothing spectacular, forgetting a name (hm…see…here we have it…what’s your name, Mike? ), having difficulty finding a word (which you might have mislaid in your desk drawer ), not remembering something somebody just told you. Apparently some people have it worse than others. It disappears when you stop taking Xanax. There’s no lasting brain damage, no brain damage at all for that matter. Philip (I don’t mind this side effect so much as long as I have a good time here with you, my colleauges, at alt.support.accoutancy )

Response:

I never heard of losing memory and xanax..Whats that all about?

Response:

Although I am not tapering off of Xanax as yet I will have to eventually.  I bought a pill cutter at a drug store ($3.29) and I broke in half at the score mark a .25mg Xanax and then split one half of a half with the pill cutter and got a .0625mg dosage.  The pill cutter worked great and split it in half almost perfectly.  I did not try to split the .0625mg.  Just passing this along to all of you that will or want to wean off of drugs. Gene in New Jersey

 I bought a pill cutter once, and the blade was bent.  Cmat

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Hi all, Although I am not tapering off of Xanax as yet I will have to eventually.  I bought a pill cutter at a drug store ($3.29) and I broke in half at the score mark a .25mg Xanax and then split one half of a half with the pill cutter and got a .0625mg dosage.  The pill cutter worked great and split it in half almost perfectly.  I did not try to split the .0625mg.  Just passing this along to all of you that will or want to wean off of drugs. Gene in New Jersey

Response:

It would be normal to feel some anxiety like symptoms when tapering Xanax, and in my opinion it is difficult to distinguish between withdrawal symptoms and the return of the anxiety symptoms. It’s takes mental will and physical will to taper off of a substance that your body has developed a dependence to. I don’t think it would be out of the question to have both withdrawal symptoms and the return of some anxiety symptoms at the same time. Cmat

Cmat, Where did this come from?  Just go get the damn xanax.  :o) You know I’m just kidding, I go through the same thought processes over and over again.  I find it funny to see it in others as well.  As I said before, I don’t think the withdrawl has to be so painful if you let your doctor know the trouble that you had before.  Plus, you said he didn’t really taper you… (but, I’ll let you know firsthand if I ever have to taper off of this klonopin) <G. I know… I talk like this now, but in a few days I’ll be sending question after question to the group about the new AD I start on Thursday. Maria

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It would be normal to feel some anxiety like symptoms when tapering Xanax, and in my opinion it is difficult to distinguish between withdrawal symptoms and the return of the anxiety symptoms. It’s takes mental will and physical will to taper off of a substance that your body has developed a dependence to. I don’t think it would be out of the question to have both withdrawal symptoms and the return of some anxiety symptoms at the same time. Cmat

Response:

It would be normal to feel some anxiety like symptoms when tapering Xanax, and in my opinion it is difficult to distinguish between withdrawal symptoms and the return of the anxiety symptoms. It’s takes mental will and physical will to taper off of a substance that your body has developed a dependence to. I don’t think it would be out of the question to have both withdrawal symptoms and the return of some anxiety symptoms at the same time. Cmat

Absolutely. And there also is such a thing as *psychological dependence*. Many moons ago I weaned off of Valium without a problem until I took only 1 mg which is virtually *nothing* and surely wouldn’t work for PA’s with anyone. It took me a lot of time to stop taking that last half pill! And later I always still carried a bottle of Valium with me without taking any, but just in case, as a security blanket. I also remember that, whatever my medication was, when I realized I had missed a dose (or had forgotten to take the pill bottle along) that would send me into an immediate PA while in *reality* nothing had changed. Now that I’m at it, to reply to your other post: if you can get the Xanax in every possible dose IMO it would indeed be easier to stop as you can do it more gradually and take more time for it. Philip

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Oh Mark, You sound like I feel.  I did all that you said…once when the only narcotic I was taking was xanax, and once when I was also taking heavy pain meds together with the xanax.  It is a vicious circle.  My memory is all but gone.  Cause a lot of arguments around here, "you did NOT tell me that"…."I most certainly did TOO!" etc.  I am weary. My anxiety creeps back in sometimes and sometimes dives in.  You see, I have tried several times to not be dependant on this med and as much as I hate to admit it, I function better with it than without it.  My one great hope is that one day, the underlying need for it will disapear and I will return to normalcy.  I to was able to wean back without discomfort, but like you said, the anxiety returns. I wish I knew if the new effects you describe are derived from long term usage or were in line to come on anyway due to this disorder. good luck little bear – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, after a year and 1/2 of Xanax at very low dosages (0.5 – 1 mg every day), with discrete results (no panic, still some anxiety in particular situations) and some recent problems (loss of memory and concentration, feeling sleep when I tried to concentrate), I decided to try to discontinue it, very gradually. I decreased the dosage, and I’m now at 0.15 mg/day, no big drawback symptoms, but I feel anxiety slowly returning. I don’t want to give out, I hate that sensation of being without memory and that impossibility to concentrate, but I hate much more anxiety. I think that the negative effects I was feeling derive from long-term usage, because I hadn’t them some time ago. I’d prefer to take Xanax only occasionally, but I’m not sure what I’ll do now. I also dislike the need to take your pills every day, in every situation, you know, it’s complicated to disappear and take them when you don’t want other people see you and know your problems. What a mess! Thanx for listening                           Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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OK, after a year and 1/2 of Xanax at very low dosages (0.5 – 1 mg every day), with discrete results (no panic, still some anxiety in particular situations) and some recent problems (loss of memory and concentration, feeling sleep when I tried to concentrate), I decided to try to discontinue it, very gradually. I decreased the dosage, and I’m now at 0.15 mg/day, no big drawback symptoms, but I feel anxiety slowly returning. I don’t want to give out, I hate that sensation of being without memory and that impossibility to concentrate, but I hate much more anxiety. I think that the negative effects I was feeling derive from long-term usage, because I hadn’t them some time ago. I’d prefer to take Xanax only occasionally, but I’m not sure what I’ll do now. I also dislike the need to take your pills every day, in every situation, you know, it’s complicated to disappear and take them when you don’t want other people see you and know your problems. What a mess! Thanx for listening                           Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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