Question:

So why is it there is such a shortage?  Is it for all types of phentermine? I was told that the company stopped making the 30 mg dosage so people were getting 15mg and taking 2.  But that the 37.5 was not a problem to get.  Is this wrong? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply.

That doesn’t sound low at all for the wholesale price.  A 60 day supply goes for $17.76 at drugstore.com.

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give.

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. Needing to lose 30 pounds……. happygirl

Response:

Question:

Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Gaba doesn’t pass the blood-brain barrier and anyway it’s not a *lack of Gaba* that’s causing PD. I would suggest trying a benzodiazepine like Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Valium which, unlike the antidepressants, *do* work on the Gaba system. Benzos will cause *dependence* (as do many ADs and a myriad of other meds) for which reason some doctors won’t prescribe them, confusing dependence and addiction. Benzos are first choice meds for panic and dependence means you shouldn’t stop taking them suddenly but by way of a slow taper. Philip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. :I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are :returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having :much success. Welcome to ASAPM! Sorry you are having a setback. That`s par for the course when it comes to living with an anxiety disorder GABA hasn`t been proven having any luck with it. oes anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can :recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative :approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack f sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. When you ask about the brain recovering from 10 year antidepressant use, do you think your brain was hurt by using zoloft for 10 years? Let me assure you that what you are experiencing is quite normal for people with anxiety disorders, meds or not. Setbacks after the cessation of medication is unfortunately…. too common. I urge you to seek professional help as soon as possible. If you are very adverse to taking another antidepressant, than ask your doctor about benzodiazepines. If you are against meds period, then look into cognitive behavioral therapy. It is the most effective therapy for anxiety disorders. Here are two informative links on CBT: http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/therapycbt/ http://www.cognitivetherapy.com/ Here`s a link to a great website on anxiety disorders, there is a wealth of information at this site. http://panicdisorder.about.com/index.htm?once=true&COB=home&PID=2791 Take care Jackie ~*~My grandfather always said that living is like licking honey off a thorn~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

 nothing perfect in life, the zoloft was effective enough to eliminate your anxiety and you (might) never had to learn how to deal with your disorder, so if for some reason you have to quite taking it your anxiety disorder can come back   if you are genetically prone to a anxiety disorder you have to work a lot harder than normal people to help deal with anxiety and this would be to learn many different coping techniques along with medication as needed and there very well could be a time in your life where medication is the only effective answer and possibly a time when you might be able to work to diminish many of the symptoms without med Jim     Hello,   I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success.   Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

First of al : Welcome to this group it can be a great help I can see your problem,but (this maybe doesn’t is the info you are looking for) I think the problem isn’t the intake of zoloft for 10 years. When I read your symptoms I can only assume your PAD isn’t under control without medication. I don’t think your brain needs to recover from Zoloft. Jackie gave you some excellent links. Unfortenatly PAD isn’t a disorder that disappears. With very few people it is a temporary thing. Of course you are free to live without medication but then ,like Elliot said, there is a great need for therapy (CBT) so you can control your thinking. You can post here all you want for info and support. We all know what you are talking about ! Take care from Anna — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Laura, I would like to know your experience on zoloft as I am considering it. I deal with a lot of anxiety and probably mini PA’s on a daily basis. I take klonopin as needed, and boy it makes me good. chaz

Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

I am coming off of Serzone after using it for at least 10 years. I came off the Serzone very slowly and have medical supervision on this. I have been told by my Dr. that if I was to come off the medication too quickly, I would probably trigger an episode of deep depression. My experience so far now that I am off Serzone completely for 3 days is that my tension migraines are a wee be worse but my head has lost much of its "fog." This trade-off is worth it for me but anxiety may in the end cause me to have to go back on meds. Good luck Ron — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Long term use of the SSRIs presents a lot of problems.  It doesn’t usually work forever and at a certain point they need to be stopped. As an episodic problem panic disorder probably is going to do best with an episodic treatment.  Withdrawal after long term use can be much more severe than you describe, and people need to be aware that withdrawal induced suicidal ideation is a problem — as is the induction of new symptoms of anxiety and panic that were not present previously.  Zaps are often confused with panic attacks.  So is withdrawal related visual lag/vertigo and withdrawal related nausea. All that aside, what can one do?  It seems that when a person stops a SSRI, they are relatively serotonin depleted.  My strategy to boos serotonin on the supply side is to prescribe l-tryptophan at a dose of 1000 mg twice daily — to be taken on an empty stomach with a bit of sugar only (juice, soda crackers, etc.)  Tryptophan is converted to serotonin in the brain.  I avoid 5-HTP because it is converted into serotonin to a large extent outside of the brain and this can potentially cause the same sort of cardiac problems that phen-fen caused.  Taking the tryptophan with SAM-e  200 to 400 mg can boost serotonin synthesis even further.  If you have a prior history of manic episodes, avoid the SAM-e. Some of my patients have found significant relief from SSRI/Zoloft withdrawal using this strategy. Stuart Shipko, M.D. Panic Disorders Institute http://www.algy.com/pdi — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. Hi Laura, It sounds like the Zoloft was controlling your anxiety disorder, and after you stopped it, the panic attacks returned. I’d restart the Zoloft. I’ve been on Zoloft for over 10 years, primarily for recurrant depression. In the past when I have discontinued the Zoloft, my depression returns. Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Welcome to the group Laura.  Maybe you should talk to your doctor about going back on Zoloft or another med.  So sorry about the way this disorder is affecting you.  :-(  I’m weaning onto Celexa, but it’s only been 2 weeks so I’m not much help there.  I think you’ll find lots of supportive people here.  Please take care. Hugs, Di   Hello,   I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success.   Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Welcome, Laura!!   I’m sorry you are experiencing this again.  There is no reason you can’t resume your Zoloft if it helped you before, and you need it.  I don’t think you are ‘recovering’ from 10 years of anti-depressant use…I think you are just plain suffering from an anxiety disorder.  It’s really OK to take meds if you need them, Laura.  A diabetic needs insulin…someone with anxiety or depression also needs meds.  It’s the same thing.   If I were you, I would contact the doctor and start something again.   This can cause you other health problems if gone untreated. Healing hugs, Gigglz   Hello,   I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success.   Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Hello, Laura, and welcome. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off = it for 1 year. … Now panic attacks are returning in full force.

It may be that you could discuss going back on the Zoloft, with your doctor or psychiatrist. If it helped you then, it will probably help you now. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to = diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight.

I’m so sorry to hear this! Laura, there is really no need to suffer when a medication exists that can help you. Please talk to your doctor about resuming the Zoloft! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Laura, Welcome to ASAPM!!!  Why make yourself suffer when going back on Zoloft could reduce or eliminate the anxiety and its symptoms. smiles, Elise   Hello,   I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success.   Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.

Response:

Question:

Hey moron, solar cells work at night too! We have these little things called batteries, you fucking idiot. "Bill Bonde, one of many Fair and Balanced Conservatives, AKA Spike, currently brunching on extra juicy ortolans, where do you put the beaks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout. I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups. Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust. Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient. If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…"

Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.

I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal.

Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.

Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  

Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.

If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again.

Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?

The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" "San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?" The latest bogus fossil-nuke blackout: this grid should not exist by Harvey Wasserman, August 15, 2003 This is the fourth—and worst—completely unnecessary major regional blackout in this country in forty years, dating back to 1965. It’s scope—from Detroit to Ottawa to New York and New Jersey—is absolutely awesome, especially since it’s due to total stupidity and corruption. This does not count the blackouts that raged through California in 2000-2001.  Those were "blackmails," set by Enron and the other Bush gas cronies to rip $60 billion out of the state, leading to, among other things, the impending ouster of Gov. Gray Davis. When the lights went out, Davis kissed the feet of Southern California Edison’s John Bryson, who engineered a deregulation bill that gouged $30 billion out of the ratepayers for the state’s failed nukes.  That opened the gates for the gas pirates to steal yet another $60 billion. Davis got caught in the backdraft. The culprits in this latest northeastern disaster are basically the same—the barons of fossil and nuclear power and their cronies in the electric utility business. Their "weapon" is an ancient electric grid that’s obsolete if not obscene.   It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants to buildings that waste massive amounts of energy and generate none. That the grid will crash again and again and yet again is absolutely certain.  The only question is who are the real terrorists:  errant crazies who blow things up, or entrenched interests that refuse to change? The technology now exists to transcend this mess.  In the mid 1990s California’s green energy advocates proposed a 600-megawatt mosaic of solar, wind and other renewable generators that would have entirely prevented the fake deregulatory crisis of 2000-1.  It was approved by the California Public Utilities Commission, but then killed by Southern California Edison and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Today, the Bush Administration wants to further subsidize its fossil/utility friends with a bad energy bill, and by pouring billions into "upgrading" the electric grid.  The only thing certain is that every cent of that money will be wasted. In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.  The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.  Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.  Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs. We need public demand and fully funded production capacity.  And to stop repeating the same mistakes because the utility and fossil/nuke guys fund the politicians in power. This isn’t rocket science.  It’s just common solar sense, known to all since 1952. Harvey Wasserman is author of THE LAST ENERGY WAR and senior editor of www.freepress.org. CONTACT THE FREE PRESS: PRINT: 1240 Bryden Road Columbus, Ohio 43209 Ph/Fx 614.253.2571 SOURCE: http://www.freepress.org/columns.php?strFunc=display&strID=735&strYea… Author=7 = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT’S GOING ON? = = = = More information: Daily Online 2 hour radio show reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org = = = = Sorry we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email For more information: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)

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Question:

Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy.  Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling level. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again.  Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.  I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.  Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday. Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

DiA, I’ve been using several labels of an extract called Kaviar(TM). You can read background info on their product(s) at http://www.cosmopolitantrading.com/ I’ve used their soft gels; they’re quite good, but take a bit longer to get into your system because it’s a thick paste inside of a softgel (available from Source Naturals as Kava Gold softgels – http://www.vitacost.com/Store/products/Products.cfm?SubCategoryID=313… own1=product I have a slight preference for their powdered version because of the bioabsorption issue; I get it from http://www.health-pages.com/kk/index.html PW is using one of the Gaia Herbs products (not sure if it’s the tincture or the phyto-capsules).  I’ve not tried them, but they have an excellent reputation, and the liquid versions do work much faster. My dosage level flucuates because I supplement the capsules with "kava tonics" I make from raw powder; I probably average around 700 mg/day.  The medical impllications of prolonged daily use at that level is very uncertain. Start with one or two capsules and evaluate your response.  Next time increase the dosage by another capsule until you get what feels like a good response. Take kava on an empty stomach, no matter what the label says, and wait awhile (about an hour, but it varies by individual, before you eat) If you get to 300mg without any significant effect, then kava may not work for you, but give it 3-4 days at a consistent dosage level before you drop it; sometimes it takes a while for the full effect to settle in. Hope it works for you, but even if not, I’d be interested in hearing your opinion. Figaro

Response:

Thanks for the info..I do have more anxiety and no depression anymore and thats why I think the Kava may be better.. It’s worth a try, anyway:) DiA

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

St. John’s Wort is an anti-depressant.  Kava-kava is (primarily) an anti-anxiety drug; it won’t help mood unless you have anxiety-driven depression.  If you take both, the SJW will interfere with the effectiveness of the kava. You *must* research kava extensively before you take it on a regular basis. There are unresolved health issues involving possible liver damage. Make an informed decision. Although I’m a regular kava user I try not to advocate nor discourage its use by anyone else.  That statement notwithstanding, my personal opinion is that kava has the potential to be an outstanding alternative to the benzodiazepenes, but the current kava products on the market varying in effectiveness from useless to excellent, so you may need to try several before finding one that works for you.

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

DiA I have read that St. John’s wort is good for depression.  It can be a bit stimulating.  I skirt away from it because by depression is secondary to my anxiety.  I am not really qualified to make any suggestions, though I can offer some of my own prsonal experience.  St. John’s Wort never helped me at all.  It never hurt me either.  Though it can aggravate some ppls’ anxiety – so I’ve read. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy. Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling

level. I had the same reaction to Paxil but I was taking it for anxiety and was on a mania streak the entire 3 months I was on it. Thanfully I had Xanax to calm me down. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again. Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.

We have something in common but my anger has nothing to do my anxiety. Still trying to figure out what it is. I have these rage relapses once on a while and cannot control it right in the middle of it. But they usually only last one day now. I was in this state of mind for years in the past. Suicidal up the ying yang. I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.

Remind me to never get on your bad side : ) Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month.

Good, I’m glad you’re succesfully weaning off of it…

Thanks! Have a good one Ms. PW, Kevin…

Response:

Question:

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to her pain meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a sales person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that have gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her plenty of pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong with you when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and maybe some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp

beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder. Anyway, my Pain Management Specialist put me on Oxy and Hydrocodone for the pain and Trazadone for depression. My rheumy told me NOT to take Hydrocodone and changed the Trazadone to Paxil. I think you are right….MDs respond to sales persons. Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am still getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina "BEVERLY" <sw…@swbell.net

wrote in message

news:3B331F47.C189BD6E@swbell.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to

her pain

meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a

sales

person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that

have

gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her

plenty of

pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong

with you

when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and

maybe

some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp beverly Serafina wrote: Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to

take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor, this one’s not taking you seriously. love, catherine "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

What mail reader are you using? "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:TaHY6.3567$F5.1183702@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com…

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder.

SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am

still

getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina

Response:

Thank you…  that is exactly what I intend to do.  THere is a large Lupus clinic with 7 doctors In Asheville N.C.  All they do is work with Lupus Patients. Isn’t is sad that Lupus is so mistreated.  I am sure that if I had AIDS, the doctors would be jumping all over me to HELP.  But for Lupus,  too many doctors pass themselves off as Experts and Gods and most of them have not picked up a Lupus journal or book in over 10 years…. so, what else is new? …….       Serafina "canuckian" <canuckian…@spam.freeze.com

wrote in message

news:_vTX6.38053$TW.189786@tor-nn1.netcom.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor,

this > one’s not taking you seriously. > love, > catherine > "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

> news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… > > Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My > > internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the > chest > > cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. > > Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should

he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

The difference in opinions would definitely be frustrating.  You might try asking them upon what they base their opinions.  After that, you might think about a third opinion.   As for the pain medication, I guess I have a different point of view than your rheumy. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with taking a medication for its intended purpose.  Using a medication appropriately is not abuse.  I also don’t believe in suffering if there is a way to prevent or minimize it.  People who are in constant pain aren’t able to be productive and can end up with poor quality of life.  As to whether one can become an addict while taking a pain medication, I wouldn’t say it couldn’t ever happen.  I do think though that its a secondary concern when someone is suffering from significant pain.  I also don’t believe that addiction itself is a common result of using pain medication appropriately.  Dependence certainly, but not necessarily addiction.  Just my opinion. Anyway, regarding the Paxil versus the Trazadone, you might try consulting a psychiatrist about which would be better.  They’re the true experts when it comes to psychiatric medications.  You might also want to consider asking for a referral to a pain clinic. I’ve known a number of other people who went to pain clinics.  Some were very happy with it and other not.  I don’t know which would be the case for you, but it could be worth a try.   P.S.  My daughter’s first rheumatologist was absolutely certain that my daughter did not have lupus just two weeks before he himself diagnosed her with it (with absolute certainty) and even recommended aggressive treatment. Sandra

Response:

In article <cZIX6.169731$I5.48627…@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com

, Serafina

<nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Quote from a talk by a consultant at this year’s Lupus UK conference: *IS* it Lupus? Many of Lupus’s common symptoms overlap with Fibromyalgia (henceforth ‘FM’) also called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – eg sleep that does not refresh you; vivid dreams; tired-all-day; leaden limbs. Up to 80% of Lupies show FM symptoms. Stress triggers both Lupus and FM. However the treatment is different – in particular, *steroids make FM worse*. For FM, new antidepressant drugs used at 1/20 – 1/10 of full dose can produce refreshing sleep, and also relieve pain that NSAIDs like Aspirin doesn’t. Also, NON-COMPETITIVE exercise is good, ie you don’t try to beat other people, and you don’t set yourself targets like ‘I’ll do 20 lengths today, 21 tomorrow and so on’. end quote Note his point that steroids make Fibromyalgia worse. That’s why your doctors need to get it right! — Andy For Austrian philately <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/

For Lupus <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/

For my other interests <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/

Response:

hi serafina! so you went to another uncocerned rheumy.dont stop there even though its hard you’ll find one that will listen to you .i had to got to about five doctors before i found a rheumy and he gve me a referral to a pain mgmnt.and thry are just great!i hve sle,fibro ctd,copd and am a mental pt.so i hve many problems.i go to the pain mgnt center on this thursday.there going to inject steriods into my body.i hope its for the best.i’ll let you know.have you ever had brain fog i ask my mental health dr.and she said yes taking all the meds im taking.its possiable.so when i spell somethuing word please try and de code ok. beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Hello well well another doctor jumping the gun on what is wrong with someone. Gee is that news… I am so sorry that you have to go through a whole bunch of stuff before someone sees you as a person as well as a patient. this also happened to me, told fibro and then had xray and was told ruptured disc.  I think some docs find this as a good diagnosis for just about anything.  Although fibro is indeed a debilitating illness. The ANA is not an indicator of lupus, it can be negative, that does not mean that it is or isn;’t lupus.  There are many more test to determine this. Have you tried steroids given by the doctor, if they do help then it may not be fibro.  Fibro is worse when someone takes steroids. Sure the hydocodone is addictive, but if it helps you should ask him why in the world would he want you to be in pain if it does INDEED help you. I would ask him right out.  Do you think I am nuts here???? I have done that, boy they back right down on that.  I also think that if you are not satisfied with this doctor there are others around who will help you A second opinion is always welcome here. What kind of blood tests did he take, get the name,  also ask if he did a sed rate to see if indeed there is inflammation present in the body. Go to KCat, here I go again, and get a list of lab tests necessary. then ask him why in the world would he not want to really check it out. I hope you get some help here. Get another opinion… janers

Response:

Hi Serafina, I can only say that I can understand your frustration,and anger. Perhaps the blood work he ordered will prove him wrong. I think most of us have experienced the same thing. I have often said that the specialists almost have to be hit in the face before they can see it. Get another referral if you are not satisfied;but above all, don’t doubt yourself. I got the runaround for many years too. Then all hell broke loose for me physically,and bingo, a diagnosis. My daughter often asks if it makes me angry because I was not being heard all those years, particularly because the symptoms should have been so obvious. Some times I feel cheated,but I’m still here in spite of all the medical mistakes.You can be sure that I am thinking about you even though we have never met. BJ "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

This is  a commen problem alot of us have gone through unfortunatly. I went through 4 Rheumies before I found one that took it serious. It is so frustrating I would ask your internist is there another rheumy to see second opinion? Good Luck and hang in there Cindy

Response:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:03:52 GMT, "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion.

your rheumy is seeing a somewhat low positive ANA and deciding that this is reason enough to say "no lupus".  My rheumy responded the same way *on that matter*.  However….

Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive.

okay – Paxil is a decent drug for many. Some people see improvement in pain syndromes (be they FMS or SLE Or whatever) with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor).  [note, I did not say "selective" SRIs – Effexor also works on other neurotransmitters).  Effexor relieved my joint pain for about 4 months or less.   This had me believing that it was "all in my head" – but when the pain returned with a vengeance despite continuing on the med, I came away from agreeing with the doctor.  But this doctor is probably assuming that Paxil will lessen your pain and therefore remove your need for trazadone or pain meds.  Trazadone is good for headache problems but not as good for other pain.  Great for sleep though.   you might check with some of the FM support groups to determine if they have had relief from Paxil more so than from Trazadone.

I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil.

I don’t know much about MGN3 and MSM but the Flaxseed Oil is a known anti-inflammatory as well as having other health benefits. I recommend *against* discontinuing it.  ie. – he’s wrong on that one IMO.  As far as getting addicted – well, everyone here that knows me, knows my opinion on this.  Recently two conflicting papers were found in medical journals and depending on the doctor, some took the view I have (you’re in pain, why should you have to suffer, treating pain properly – before it becomes overwhelming – means having to use less pain meds and so on)  some took the other view (pain meds are dangerous, blah, blah, blah).  Gee, can you tell I’m opinionated on this one? for more of my rambling *opinion* you can read my site (new meds, new me) which has a discussion of my experience and what I’ve learned from others about pain meds.  I have taken Lortab (hydrocodone) for 3 years now – as needed.  Some times that meant every day for several weeks, sometimes that meant once a week for several months.  I’ve had one dose in the last three weeks.  so despite three years of access to the drug I have not become addicted or even dependent on it.  I am dependent on Ultram but not addicted – i forget to take it now and then and pay the price.  It is not "recommended" to combine Ultram with SRIs (or other antidepressants) nor with Hydrocodone – but frankly, I’ve had no problem the last three years in taking the occasional Hydrocodone while on a daily dose of Ultram.

I think I want to hit this guy.

be my guest, invite him to my place and we’ll rearrange his thinking…

He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

go back to your internist.  Discuss this with him.  Discuss the issues of pain control (there are other methods that can be used in tandem with hydrocodone or in place of it).  I will try to find the articles re: pain control that were posted here some time ago.  My MIL’s doctor agrees with me that chronic sleep and pain problems are undertreated. The thing is, if you’re going to self-medicate (ie., take drugs you don’t need physically because you want them psychologically) you’re going to do it whether it’s hydrocodone or alcohol or chocolate or… get my drift?  Your internist will know your history as far as how you’ve treated your pain meds and since this doctor (rheumy) seems to care little for the discomfort of his patients, then perhaps a pain specialist is in order.  my doc (rheumy) watches my refill pattern and so does the pharmacy – so if I were to start taking the drugs improperly she would know immediately and I’d lose the privelege I have of being allowed to control my own pain. I have found that yoga and other forms of meditation have helped me considerably on joint pain and even the migraines – not a cure by any means, but a good coping mechanism. one last thing to consider – I think rheumies are seeing a *lot* of women with lupus-like symptoms right now as people are becoming more and more aware of the disease via the ‘net mostly.  So I think for some of the there is a sort of backlash – they’ve been taught this is a "rare" disease and are not willing to come away from that outdated thinking.  In addition, some rheumies will refuse to diagnose without major organ involvement because of insurance reasons.  I have learned to live without a firm diagnosis mostly because a) my rhuemy does not discount my pain  b) my rheumy provides plaquenil to help keep flares under control – thereby stating that some sort of autoimmune process is going on and c) I realize that as long as I don’t have that firm diagnosis it means I am not "that" sick.  Hurt like hell sometimes, feel like giving up sometimes, but most of the time aware that these are "mild" symptoms (nothing to do with the level of pain but just the level of risk to my life) and that I can deal with those one way or another.  It is my family doctor that doesn’t like the meds I’m on – but she defers to my rhueumy on this one.  I dont’ know if this is your first rhuematologist visit but if it is, you might consider talking to other lupus patients (and FM and so on) in a local support group to get their feelings on their doctors. kcat the verbose. good luck *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

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Question:

Why, oh why, must I be different?  I have taken Effexor XR, 150 mg., along with Xanax daily, and both together have changed my life, but no appetite and losing weight?   No sir, not me!!  I am also a plumb Grandmom who would LOVE to lose 40 lbs.  I had heard that Effexor effects a lot of people this way, but of course, I have to be different.  This is the only AD that I have had success with (no side effects from day one) so I guess I just have to accept it. But Mr. Anon. Male, Effexor has a pretty good success rate with low or none side-effects.  The only side-effect I heard of that stops people from staying on it is nausea.  It seems if you get that side effect  it’s almost immediately and doesn’t go away.   But I never had it and most don’t.  I say, give it a try.   I am/was very drug sensitive, and if it worked for me, it can work for anyone. — ~*Rita*~ I’ve learned… that sometimes all a person needs is a hand to hold and a heart to understand.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have been taking it for couple of months now… really have been helped… the first week or so I was soooooo sleepy all the time but that is gone now…. I feel great… no highs or lows… just even keel and that is great….. am sort of plump grandmother… and have noticed that I am not hungry… have lost about 4 lb. but I need to… so that was a plus…. started on 75 mg and now am at 150 per day… still a low dosage… but It works for me…. bpw

Response:

When it comes to panic, why do you think it

Question:

Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600

Response:

Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600

Is this possible? My therapist said I was scientifically unable to swing that fast. I am no longer seeing that therapist (or anybody else right now) and would like some information. Lady V

Response:

I am a rapid cycler, and after a year of trying different meds, I am on a cocktail that works: 1000mgs of Tegretol daily, 6mgs of Risperadal, 1mg of Klonopin, and 10mgs of Prozac, prozac every other day.  I am an extreme rapid cycler (can cycle in the same hour!) and have been through enough this past year.  I am also seasonal.  Fall depression, spring mania.  I have finally found some peace.  Good luck to you.  Veronica

Response:

I am a rapid cycler, and after a year of trying different meds, I am on a cocktail that works: 1000mgs of Tegretol daily, 6mgs of Risperadal, 1mg of Klonopin, and 10mgs of Prozac, prozac every other day.  I am an extreme rapid cycler (can cycle in the same hour!) and have been through enough this past year.  I am also seasonal.  Fall depression, spring mania.  I have finally found some peace.  Good luck to you.  Veronica

Great news on success stories is always encouraging.  We have lots of rapids here (gee, advanced level water rapids just came to mind as similar),  I get the feeling that most who are, would prefer not to be…..my feeling is that rapid is better for me than anything horrible that would last months.  Also, since so rapid and breakthru hypomanic every few days (at least) I can’t complain about the SSRI’s bad affect on sex life.  The hypomania push is stronger than the drug side effect of long long long long (why even bother) plateau to orgasm. best regards from julie

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yep i sure am ….. is it any wonder that my favorite toy is Bouncing Tigger …boing boing boing….

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Oh, Ralph!  LOVE you! Some BP vanity plates….                                 I M NUTZ                                 HI LO                                 UP DOWN                                 KING worm                                 FUN E FARM

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Not a good idea, keep letting them play with the meds. I work hard at ‘tuning into" my rapid cycling when it happens. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t. I have also had great success by eliminating stress where I can. Cheers! Alan P.S. I absolutely HATE it when I am in mixed states and up for 15 minutes, then down for 15. Your meds must be at least limiting the range you have to deal with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They work for a while 3-4months and than they fail – a very vicious cycle. Been really depressed past few weeks – kind of dead just watching life pass me by.  If i wasn’t the single Mom of a 14yr old I throw in the bag.  Sometimes I feel like saying the hell with all the meds – since I cycle anyway when I am on them maybe I should just strap in and take the ride drugless.  I don’t know sorry for venting.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600 Is this possible? My therapist said I was scientifically unable to swing that fast. I am no longer seeing that therapist (or anybody else right now) and would like some information. Lady V

My mood can swing from normal to deeply depressed or significantly hypo (or the other way) in less than an hour. But it more often takes about 12 hours.  I am fascinated by this. How rapid is rapid? jackie Web page at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/close/xhq10/mem.htm I’ve been Jay H, Canarybird, Empty Cage, Serin, Phoenix, even Crow. Let’s see if I can stick with this one for a while.

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I’ve been through a variety of meds, too effexor, wellbutrin, depakote. prozac, all with only temporary success. the only mood stabilizer the doc is interested in trying is depakote, and that only helps with the super highs Rapid cycling is a pain because i’m never quite sure how long any given mood is going to last.  It could be weeks or months.  Just to let you know you’re not alone. —

Response:

I was rapid cycling. Lithium stopped it. i take lithium and prozac, but i dont think the prozac is working yet.. it’s supposed to take 2-3 weeks or something. Anyway, i dont think that i’ll always be rapid cycling, it was the onset of my illness, and i read somewhere that females (more than males) are more prone to rapid cycling, and that it can occur at the beginning of an illness. ok,im done molly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Response:

Hi: I’m a rapid cycler myself.  I’m also an aerobics instructor (well that’s what they say I am:).  I agree exercise does help, but I’m still having problems.  Of course I haven’t exactly been good about taking my meds so I’m probably not a good example.  I too have even worse symptoms during PMS (which I now have).  My prob is that the meds I’m taking (Depakote and Paxil) make extremely (yawn) lethargic.  I just now started taking my Depakote again (after taking myself off of it) so we’ll see how it goes.  I seem to be even worse with no meds whatsover after a while so I’m trying to hang in there and let it work. If you ever need to vent, please feel free to write, I could use some friends, especially during times like these. Cat (who has no idea what to use for coreagraphy for her next aerobics class:) Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Some BP vanity plates….                                 I M NUTZ                                 HI LO                                 UP DOWN                                 KING worm                                 FUN E FARM

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Katnip! Me three!!! My car license is up for renewal on my birthday – July 1st, Canada Day. I grew up thinking that the fireworks and celebration were for me! What a letdown when I found out the truth. Anyway, I’m thinking of getting vanity plates that read "URC BP2". It would be kind of like the secret handshake among Masons, don’t you think? Anybody have any other suggestions for Bipolar plates? My SO wants me to get BPBEAR cause she calls me her big Bipolar Bear. Awwwwww! This is a really tough time of the year for us RC’s. Hang in there. Peace, GaryO Hi: I’m a rapid cycler myself.  I’m also an aerobics instructor (well that’s what they say I am:).  I agree exercise does help, but I’m still having problems.  Of course I haven’t exactly been good about taking my meds so I’m probably not a good example.  I too have even worse symptoms during PMS (which I now have).  My prob is that the meds I’m taking (Depakote and Paxil) make extremely (yawn) lethargic.  I just now started taking my Depakote again (after taking myself off of it) so we’ll see how it goes.  I seem to be even worse with no meds whatsover after a while so I’m trying to hang in there and let it work. If you ever need to vent, please feel free to write, I could use some friends, especially during times like these. Cat (who has no idea what to use for coreagraphy for her next aerobics class:) Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

You bet. I’m thinking of changing my nick to Bouncing Ball. jackie Web page at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/close/xhq10/mem.htm I’ve been Jay H, Canarybird, Empty Cage, Serin, Phoenix, even Crow. Let’s see if I can stick with this one for a while.

Response:

Just my opinion… from Oct of 98 to to May of 99 hardly seems like enough time to have given all of those meds enough chance to work their magic..??? peace – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

yes and i am sick of it, nothing helps lny

Response:

Hey there !! I am a rapid cycler..ultra rapid that is… anyway, I am on lamictal and it is a total life saver, you may want to try it.  I feel good mentally and physically now… I been on the whole gamut too, those meds did me no good either.  Also, lamictal is supposed to work very well for rapid cyclers.  I know that in the past there were a few people that posted to me when I first started on it and they said they were on it and that they were doing wonderfully, I didnt get any negative responses. I dont cycle anymore but I sure do have my moments, you know those moments you could cause more damage in a house than a tornado could?  :)  But I am able to control myself a lot better than I used to, it is as though I have some semblance of reason when I get those feelings. Anna

Response:

I too have been working with this "moody personality" as it was origionally called for four years.  I have been thru almost as many treatments as you. Sept 98′ I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar II.  And as recently as Tuesday as dysphoric mania to boot.  My husband and children are struggling to understand it, but I can’t seem to describe it accurately.  I feel for you because if anyone has to go thru what I do on a DAILY basis, I wish them luck.

Response:

Have you read "An unquiet mind?" Good book, if you get past how "great" she is (maybe I was just in a bad mood). My parents read it, and were like, you felt that way (or feel). Hang in there! Alex

Response:

As a relative "newbie" here, what is "rapid cycling"?  What makes that different from "normal" cycling if there is such a thing?  … I take it that "rapid cycling" doesn’t involve the tour de france vs. a slow bicycle ride around the block Thanks, — Kevin White, Software Engineer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Response:

Hi LADYREB, I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace.

Unfortunately that is common for some of us <sigh. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Having been there…persistence and patience, which is sometimes difficult for me (understatement), I have to force myself to put one foot in front of the other (literally that can be a challenge since I have Multiple Sclerosis Yours,

Response:

His goal is not realistic. To have no mood swings at all, you must be drugged into oblivion. A better goal is to have <manageable mood swings. I guess that is harder for the doctor to manage. Stand firm on this one! And good luck quitting the smokes. I just started Wellbutrin, I hope that will help me. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake.

Response:

I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Response:

They work for a while 3-4months and than they fail – a very vicious cycle. Been really depressed past few weeks – kind of dead just watching life pass me by.  If i wasn’t the single Mom of a 14yr old I throw in the bag.  Sometimes I feel like saying the hell with all the meds – since I cycle anyway when I am on them maybe I should just strap in and take the ride drugless.  I don’t know sorry for venting.

Response:

Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex

Response:

You haven’t tried Neurontin or Lamictal, both of which have a good reputation with rapid cycling. There are some more that you haven’t tried, but I recommend you ask about N&L first. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Response:

Question:

I’ve been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Trazodone.  The Trazodone is nice in that it helps me sleep at night(that is mainly what I use it for.  The Zoloft did not work for me, either.  The only thing I recall working is the Prozac.  I am back on it as of today.  I will see how it works this time.  :-)

Response:

I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.

Aha… so I’m not the only one… hehe… Liah who is sleeping way too much

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Of all the SSRI type meds, I liked  Paxil the best. Im kinda aggressive (not violent) and it takes the edge off better than zac or loft. Kinda costs more tho….. Good luck 2u, Kev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

trina, different ADs work differently in different people, i was on zoloft but had no success, same thing with prozac, effexor, and now i’m trying aropax again. Because they have different effects on different people it makes it difficult to try to recommend any other AD’s, all i can rwally say is keep trying until you find something you feel works for you. Good Luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

Response:

i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

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Question:

Good for you to find out about these drugs…from 1 to 10  my tinnitus is about a (7) right now… it was a(2) before a hip operation in Aug. this yr….Pain medication was the cause of the increase… I have hope that the T will drop down to (2) again since stopping the pain medication…

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        On Tuesday my psychiatrist wanted me to start Paxil 10mg (I really think of him as a doctor who writes prescriptions for my Ambien and Xanax, rather than a psychiatrist.  I had six visits precertified through my US Health Care Insurance).  On Saturday afternoon I had a severe agitated depression that lasted about three hours, even though my t wasn’t bothering me then.         This is the time of year that allot of people get depressed anyway. Especially the ones without family.         I’ve been having a really good week so far, the best since this t hit me in July.  So I decided not to start the paxil yet.  Even though I had loud t three days in a row, it didn’t seem to bother me as much.  I’ve also been eating well for the last week. I’m also anticipating starting TRT soon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

   Interesting. You dont say how many milligrams you were on. I was put on 20 mg a day. After two months i decided to cut my dosage in half due to side effects. I am on 10 mg a day.    I havent noticed any increase in ringing. The drop down to 10 mg very quickly eliminated the side effects including alternating hot and cold flashes and extreme fatigue. My mood was not affected.    My psychiatrist became very upset when i told him i had done this and told me i had made a serious mistake and was in for a big accident. He then threw me out of his office because i didnt want to return to the full dose.    I am going to slowly ease off the Paxil totally. If i feel the need to go backon it i will certainly find myself another doctor.    I have been on so many different medications the past three months trying to get back to "normal" which hasnt really happened, although life is more livable..thats a start. Anti depressants can help. Paxil seemed to level everything out. But it does affect your body and i didnt care for that discomfort on top of my tinnitus.    It doesnt totally get you out of the funk. Even on my full dose i got bouts of depression, I still do. Lots of emotions are tied up in this and if you already are experiencing stress or disapointments in life, tinnitus just adds to it, making you feel broken, victimized and helpless. Cynthia    I

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FYI Paxil withdrawal is NOT pleasant. Dizziness, vomiting, loss of balance and *auditory hallucinations.*  These have been documented in others than I.  My psychiatrist found a paper on SSRI withdrawal, how lack of knowledge in this area is starting to cause problems. The drug companies don’t want to talk about this. This report has been my experience, only. I hope it helps others. BUT I will always belong to the ATA and a T. suffer’s advocate. Best to all. ciao, randall

        Interesting. You dont say how many milligrams you were on. I was put on 20 mg a day. After two months i decided to cut my dosage in half due to side effects. I am on 10 mg a day.         I havent noticed any increase in ringing. The drop down to 10 mg very quickly eliminated the side effects including alternating hot and cold flashes and extreme fatigue. My mood was not affected.         My psychiatrist became very upset when i told him i had done this and told me i had made a serious mistake and was in for a big accident. He then threw me out of his office because i didnt want to return to the full dose.         I am going to slowly ease off the Paxil totally. If i feel the need to go backon it i will certainly find myself another doctor.         I have been on so many different medications the past three months trying to get back to "normal" which hasnt really happened, although life is more livable..thats a start. Anti depressants can help. Paxil seemed to level everything out. But it does affect your body and i didnt care for that discomfort on top of my tinnitus.         It doesnt totally get you out of the funk. Even on my full dose i got bouts of depression, I still do. Lots of emotions are tied up in this and if you already are experiencing stress or disapointments in life, tinnitus just adds to it, making you feel broken, victimized and helpless. Cynthia         I

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In article <01bcf5e6$d2cd89e0$0521accf@larrygol

, "Larry Goldman"

<larrg…@erols.com

writes: On Tuesday my psychiatrist wanted me to start Paxil 10mg (I really think of him as a doctor who writes prescriptions for my Ambien and Xanax, rather than a psychiatrist.  I had six visits precertified through my US Health Care Insurance).

Hi, Larry! We have all been pulling for you here, knowing how tough the past few weeks have been for you and hoping you will find something to help.  Glad this week has been better.  It’s about time! I thought I would clarify that a psychiatrist is a medically trainned doctor who generally has specialized training in medication.  A psychiatrist usually sees a patient and interviews him on a periodic basis in order to assess and monitor his meds.  If a person needs to be hospitalized, a psychiatrist generally is responsible, although more and more other mental health professions are becoming involved in hospitalization these days. A psychotherapist is a person with specialized training in psychotherapy.  This training varies, but may easily take 8-12 years or more of graduate school.  A psychiatrist may go on for more training in therapy, and some do, but by the time they have finished all the education that it took to get this far, many don’t sign up for an additional 8-12 years.  Many either are not interested or feel that it is time to get on with their lives.  Therefore, it may take some exploring to find out what training a particular psychiatrist has, or for any other therapist, for that matter. Good luck with the TRT.  We are all crossing our fingers for you. Ginny

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This has been my experience. I developed *unbearable* tinnitus around Labor Day.  I have always noticed a slight sound [note] every now and again, but nothing *devastating*. This was.   1. Psychiatrist, Primary care, ENT: all tests MRI; another ENT; Tinnitus specialist who recommened a plan of treatment for T., long and involved. 2. I looked up several drugs in PDR. Found for Paxil [a Prozac relative] [all SSRIs, Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Desyrel(R), ] and Desyrel a small incidence of tinnitus. 3. 5 doctors and $2000.00 later, I decided to try and see if I was one of the small few in whom SSRIs caused tinnitus. 3. I stopped PAXIL and DESYREL. 4. 3 weeks later [today] tinnitus is 90% gone.  I comes and goes and changes daily, but on the whole, for the first time in 2 1/2 months I can honestly say I believe these drugs to be the cause of *my* tinnitus. 5. I put the connection together, because of Effexor withdrawal, caused a feeling of loss of balance control [INNER EAR]. 6. I knew if I missed 2 days of Paxil I became VERY dizzy and felt "swimmy."  [again, INNER EAR] 7.  I figured if the drugs [SSRIs] caused dizziness upon withdrawal, they were doing something in my inner ear, so what not the T. 8. Most of the tinnitus is gone. I still feel swimmy.  Waves of nausea will hit, along with a symphony of sounds in my ears.     So, I certainly believe IF you developed T. after starting an anti-depressant [namely SSRIs] or your T. has gotten worse, I would talk to your doctor about these drugs. FYI Paxil withdrawal is NOT pleasant. Dizziness, vomiting, loss of balance and *auditory hallucinations.*  These have been documented in others than I.  My psychiatrist found a paper on SSRI withdrawal, how lack of knowledge in this area is starting to cause problems. The drug companies don’t want to talk about this. This report has been my experience, only. I hope it helps others. BUT I will always belong to the ATA and a T. suffer’s advocate. Best to all. ciao, randall

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Question:

Any side effects would be physical in nature. If things are fairly "whacked"  (and I don’t know exactly what you mean) then it suggests the Zoloft is not  working. Either you need to increase the dose up to the max of 200 mg or  switch to another OCD drug such as Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, or Anafranil. Its  pretty much trial and error. There is no way to know ahead of time which is  most likely to work. Erich

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D iIR r T wrote:

i have been on zoloft for about 7 months and haven’t noticed any physical side effects, but things are fairly wacked and i’m not sure if there are any known mental/emotional side effects… (?)

I’ve also been taking Zoloft for about 7-8 months and have noticed just one side effect … that being fatigue. I’m taking 300mg daily and my OCD symptoms have improved significantly. The major symptom of my OCD is having to go back and "check" if I’ve hit someone while driving … and because of the Zoloft and behaviour therapy, this symptom has pretty much disappeared (thankfully!). However, I can’t seem to get enough sleep …. I now require at least 8 hours to function and even then I’m pretty tired. However, I find this side effect tolerable in comparison to my OCD symptoms. I’ve also found a drastic improvement in regards to my mood swings. Shannon

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Subject: Zoloft: side effects???? From: dii…@aol.com (D iIR  r T) Date: Sun, Oct 26, 1997 01:01 EST Message-id: <19971026060100.BAA12…@ladder02.news.aol.com i have been on zoloft for about 7 months and haven’t noticed any physical side effects, but things are fairly wacked and i’m not sure if there are any known mental/emotional side effects… (?)

I think I know just what you mean.  I tried Zoloft for about three or four  months.  After the first month or so, I would wake up and be in this strange,  surreal state of mind for about 30 minutes or so before I would completely  "awaken".  It felt REALLY weird, and was quite unpleasant.  The Zoloft also  would alter my sleeping in such a way so that I would sometimes be asleep, but  would be somewhat aware of what was happening in my environment; if someone  cut a radio on, for instance, I would be aware of that, but would STILL BE  ASLEEP.  Strange.  The stuff also interfered with my ability to concentrate to  a certain extent, which I also didn’t like. Basically, you’ve just got ask yourself whether or not the medicine is taking  care of the problem(s) it’s supposed to; then ask yourself whether or not the  side effects are worth putting up with.  If your answer to EITHER one of these  questions is "no", you might want to give another SSRI a try.  I personally  went back to Prozac, and am glad I did.  Good luck… -Bill Spruell

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i have been on zoloft for about 7 months and haven’t noticed any physical side  effects, but things are fairly wacked and i’m not sure if there are any known  mental/emotional side effects… (?)

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