Question:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working?

When I was in the worst of the year-long attack I had, I felt the effects of Singulair immediately. Now I wonder whether it’s working at all, but it must be because I get worse if I miss taking it.

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help.

I found it worked within the first few days.  But it appears to be effect for only 2/3 of the people taking it.  You may be in the 1/3. Check with your allergist.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience   Wow! Me too! I had been using my Proventil inhaler regularly along with Serevent. The Dr. put me back on Flovent and added Singulair. I haven’t needed the Proventil even once since then. Since I believe the Flovent takes some time to start working I’m convinced that the Singulair did the job. I’m not 100% better yet – my lungs still hurt when I take a deep breath. But I’m very much improved! Debi

Singulair is practically my god…within 24 hours I felt a *huge* effect. I now use proventil as a rescue inhaler maybe once a week, as opposed to the once/twice/even three times a day I used to have to use it. —  Karen Ingraffea  "I might be a coward; I’m afraid of what I might find out…" -(The Mighty Mighty Bosstones) The Impression That I Get "All things being equal, you lose." -Anon

Response:

I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience

  Wow! Me too! I had been using my Proventil inhaler regularly along with Serevent. The Dr. put me back on Flovent and added Singulair. I haven’t needed the Proventil even once since then. Since I believe the Flovent takes some time to start working I’m convinced that the Singulair did the job. I’m not 100% better yet – my lungs still hurt when I take a deep breath. But I’m very much improved! Debi

Response:

Your insert should supply this information. If not your pharmacist will tell you.

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help.

Generally, about 30 days is considered an adequate time to tell if it is or is not working. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

ok, so here is my story went to my psych three weeks ago he told me to lower my dose of buspar from 40 mgs/day to 20mgs/day, then after 2 weeks go off it all together am still taking the zoloft, 100 mgs/day and the lorazepam, .5 mgs/day, sometimes 1 mg/day neways, did that wrong thing to do yesterday aft, had about 5-6 panic attacks in a matter of 2 hours shitty shitty shitty thought 4 sure i was going to die tried everything possible, but the damn things kept coming back finally got ahold of my family doc, after trying numerous times to get ahold of my psych he told me to go back on the buspar and start with 10 mgs/day, but hell with that am going to take 20 mgs/day after yesterday, don’t want that to happen again hopefully today will b alot better scared the shit outta my 6 yr old and my fiance will let you all know tomorrow how i did today later…..

Response:

Sounds like the BuSpar was augmenting the anti-panic effects of the Zoloft. Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so here is my story went to my psych three weeks ago he told me to lower my dose of buspar from 40 mgs/day to 20mgs/day, then after 2 weeks go off it all together am still taking the zoloft, 100 mgs/day and the lorazepam, .5 mgs/day, sometimes 1 mg/day neways, did that wrong thing to do yesterday aft, had about 5-6 panic attacks in a matter of 2 hours shitty shitty shitty thought 4 sure i was going to die tried everything possible, but the damn things kept coming back finally got ahold of my family doc, after trying numerous times to get ahold of my psych he told me to go back on the buspar and start with 10 mgs/day, but hell with that am going to take 20 mgs/day after yesterday, don’t want that to happen again hopefully today will b alot better scared the shit outta my 6 yr old and my fiance will let you all know tomorrow how i did today later…..

Response:

:he told me to go back on the buspar and start with 10 mgs/day, but hell with :that :am going to take 20 mgs/day :after yesterday, don’t want that to happen again :hopefully today will b alot better :scared the shit outta my 6 yr old and my fiance :will let you all know tomorrow how i did today :later….. Hi Joe, I would talk to your psych doctor before you reinstate the Buspar. Buspar is NOT a med for panic disorder, it is usually ineffective in treating panic attacks. I recall a few weeks ago that you`ve been trying to get off increased anxiety could very well be from that. How long have you been on Ativan and why are you trying to get off of it? I think it is very important that you talk to your psych doctor today about what happened over the weekend. Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so here is my story went to my psych three weeks ago he told me to lower my dose of buspar from 40 mgs/day to 20mgs/day, then after 2 weeks go off it all together am still taking the zoloft, 100 mgs/day and the lorazepam, .5 mgs/day, sometimes 1 mg/day neways, did that wrong thing to do yesterday aft, had about 5-6 panic attacks in a matter of 2 hours shitty shitty shitty thought 4 sure i was going to die tried everything possible, but the damn things kept coming back finally got ahold of my family doc, after trying numerous times to get ahold of my psych he told me to go back on the buspar and start with 10 mgs/day, but hell with that am going to take 20 mgs/day after yesterday, don’t want that to happen again hopefully today will b alot better scared the shit outta my 6 yr old and my fiance will let you all know tomorrow how i did today later…..

If you have panic attacks and are diagnosed with Panic Disorder I would skip the Buspar if I were you. It rarely if ever works for PD and only sometimes for mild to moderate GAD. IMHO and exceptions to the rule notwithstanding this is a med we can do without. However, your Zoloft dose can be raised and, perhaps more importantly, so can your lorazepam. You should of course run this by your doctor (even if he prescribed you Buspar for panic which is reason enough to switch pdocs) but it might be a good idea to take lorazepam at a regular daily dose as well (starting with 1 mg four times daily, see what that gets you and take it from there) to avoid panic attacks connected with interdose anxiety (lorazepam is a short working benzo, it works for an average of 6 hours). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

okay, so yesterday went well took the 10mgs of buspar in the am and another 10 in the pm my psych told me that if i started having problems again, that i could go back on it he also told me that the buspar boosts, or whatever, the zoloft i don’t want to go off the lorazepam, by any means, but the docs r hounding me too but they work, so y should i hopefully 2day will b just as good as yesterday, if not better thanx for all the input guys oh yeah, and by the way, joe isn’t my name, it is audrey it is just the way we have our email set up later…… audrey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, so here is my story went to my psych three weeks ago he told me to lower my dose of buspar from 40 mgs/day to 20mgs/day, then after 2 weeks go off it all together am still taking the zoloft, 100 mgs/day and the lorazepam, .5 mgs/day, sometimes 1 mg/day neways, did that wrong thing to do yesterday aft, had about 5-6 panic attacks in a matter of 2 hours shitty shitty shitty thought 4 sure i was going to die tried everything possible, but the damn things kept coming back finally got ahold of my family doc, after trying numerous times to get ahold of my psych he told me to go back on the buspar and start with 10 mgs/day, but hell with that am going to take 20 mgs/day after yesterday, don’t want that to happen again hopefully today will b alot better scared the shit outta my 6 yr old and my fiance will let you all know tomorrow how i did today later….. If you have panic attacks and are diagnosed with Panic Disorder I would skip the Buspar if I were you. It rarely if ever works for PD and only sometimes for mild to moderate GAD. IMHO and exceptions to the rule notwithstanding this is a med we can do without. However, your Zoloft dose can be raised and, perhaps more importantly, so can your lorazepam. You should of course run this by your doctor (even if he prescribed you Buspar for panic which is reason enough to switch pdocs) but it might be a good idea to take lorazepam at a regular daily dose as well (starting with 1 mg four times daily, see what that gets you and take it from there) to avoid panic attacks connected with interdose anxiety (lorazepam is a short working benzo, it works for an average of 6 hours). Philip

Response:

Question:

I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng, I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

Are you in therapy now? Peace, Lynda — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

I have been on prozac, effexor. paxil, celexa, and back to prozac over a 15 year period give or take a few years. and i was wondering if there is any way for getting over my depression, panic, personality disorder, and other things that i have, I dont want to be with this stuff for ever, how can i get rid of it….?

Have you given therapy with a really good therapist a try? Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

Yes I am in therapy. I dont see how just talking helps I get to feeling like all i do is cry. Its not like i always have bad things that happen all the time. It just seems like they get me down the most….. how come i dont get happy when good thing happen….Actually i have been to see several therapist…. and counselors….. and psychiatrist……. i just get the feeling like they just sit and agree with me. beckie — "If you have a candle, the light won’t glow any dimmer if I light yours off of mine." (STEVEN TYLER) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you in therapy now? Peace, Lynda — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer Have you given therapy with a really good therapist a try? Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

Hi again, Yes I am in therapy. I dont see how just talking helps I get to feeling like all i do is cry. Its not like i always have bad things that happen all the time. It just seems like they get me down the most….. how come i dont get happy when good thing happen….Actually i have been to see several therapist…. and counselors….. and psychiatrist……. i just get the feeling like they just sit and agree with me. beckie

 Beckie I am so very sorry. Email me anytime. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Question:

Amazing.  We switched from DSL to Cable as our internet provider yesterday. I had only seen one reply to my post via DSL, when I logged on using the cable connection, all the rest appeared. Thank you everybody.  For your words of support, and suggestions and for sharing your Serzone experiences.  I dropped my dose down about three days ago from 400mg a day to 300mg.  I have my mind back!  It’s like the fog lifted and I can think again.  I had exceeded a dose that was good for me. That’s all I can assume.  The first couple of days I needed a prn Ativan along toward evening, but didn’t even need that yesterday.  So, I’m feeling hopeful. Again, thank you all so much.  I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner, but the messages just weren’t there for me to respond to.  Funky DSL. Debbie

Response:

Debbie: My DR put me on Serzone about a month ago (and took me off of it).  I, too, had memory problems (short-term memory), disorientation and confusion.  It was like walking through a thick fog all the time. I can’t offer you the "hang in there" you need, because Serzone didn’t work with me.  All I can offer is the "wait and see" approach or start the med "roulette."  When Prozac quit working for me after 10 years, I, too, was terrified about starting a new med. My first SSRI was Paxil (I was severly depressed at the time) and all I did was sleep .. not a good thing when I really needed to get out of the house and work.  Prozac worked just dandy for me, then in January, I noticed more and more PAs. I rode the Serzone roller coaster (each time the starter kit upped the dose, I got worse, lots of crying, light-headedness, forgetfulness) until I couldn’t even teach, grade, sleep …  The DR switched my to Zoloft, it’s working OK right now, but I’m still wary. The Zoloft dose increases in two days …. who knows what it will do … Do you have a good doctor?  One who listens?  So far, I have a standing appointment with my DR every 2 weeks to see how the new meds are working (always with the option to get in before the 2 week appt). I don’t think I’ve helped you at all, but I hope my experience …. I don’t know … gives you some idea of a path to follow (not that I have a path … ) Let me know how it goes. schel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN. She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones. — Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.                            –Henry Kaiser

Response:

Liz, Thanks so much for the moral boost.  I’m hoping reducing the dose will at least clear up fog I have seemed to be living in.  I’ll have to see what happens with the anxiety piece.  I always try to think positive, so I hope this is the trick.  I appreciate your note, Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Debbie, Welcome, Debbie.  I am so sorry you are having more anxiety and the meds don’t seem to be working right.  I will leave the med questions to the experts, but just wanted to send you strength and hope. Take care, Liz

Response:

struggled with PD for six years. began Serzone 150mg BID. increased PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety. three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance. dose increased to 200mg BID. take 1mg Ativan at night, PRN. can’t adjust to increase after two weeks on new dose. exhausted all the time, spaced out and air-headed does nothing for overall anxiety short term memory loss has increased back to successful dose of 150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.

IMHO, this was a really good move on your part. I’m glad your pdoc agreed. How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??

Depends. My Dx is panic disorder w/o depression.  Been on Serzone continuously since Sep 2000. Experienced short term memory loss and inability to focus on details 1 wk after dose went beyond 150mg BID. Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med?

Went as high as 200mg BID. Almost all background thought processing ceased. Although ruminating/runaway thoughts often triggered symptoms, my mind became TOO quiet. Very disturbing.  Pdoc and I agreed to back-off to 100mg BID which is where I am now. Mind ‘thawed-out’ a day or two later and thought processing returned mostly to normal except for short-term memory ‘brown-out’ periods every so often. Get breakthru symptoms (but no full-blown attacks) about once every two weeks at this dose. Have Xanax PRN, but haven’t had the need in over a month now. The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med?

IMHO, yes. But ya never know until you try. Start low and move slow is a good rule of thumb. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".

I only have 6mo experience with Serzone, so can’t speak to long term side effects. My pdoc and I have agreed to stop around June/July 2001 and see what happens. However, if you feel like you can function within acceptible limits on your current regimen, my suggestion is to hang in there…  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.

The memory loss is temporary, and will go away when (or if) you stop the Serzone. All psychoactive substances can impair cognition (ability to concentrate) and memory. Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the

med? Your body couldn’t tolerate the increase, and it told you so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Since an increase in your anxiety level precipitated the increase in Serzone, I think it advisable to treat the anxiety with a benzo, such as Ativan, taken on a regular (not as needed) basis. Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi Debbie, Welcome, Debbie.  I am so sorry you are having more anxiety and the meds don’t seem to be working right.  I will leave the med questions to the experts, but just wanted to send you strength and hope.   Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

– Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.                            –Henry Kaiser

Response:

Well Debbie I am not a med expert.  I am sorry you are having a rough time right now.  It does feel pretty unfair and makes you angry, doesn’t it, that IT came back!  I have spent a lot of time pondering why IT attacked me for the first time almost a year ago and I have not been the same since.  I can’t tell you about your meds, but I would encourage you to take your doc’s advice about using the Ativan as needed.  Don’t cheat yourself out of the needed calming it can bring you during this rough time. Jeannie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Response:

Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Response:

Question:

I was wondering if anyone is living with person who has Attention Deficit, my husband was diagnosed 2 years ago, he is currently taken ritailin sr 20 mg twice a day. He still has mood swings and alot of other symptoms, I am trying to be real strong but sometimes he can be real harsh  with his words.  I just want someone who can understand and give adivce to me. Shannon    

Response:

Tell his MD to recommend an SSRI like Prozac, Effexor, Paxil or Zoloft. These are mood stablizers and can balance out the mood swings.

I agree:  I have found that I was much less irritable when I was on Prozac, and then Effexor; I didn’t feel it neccessary to express anger towards people by snapping at them.  Being on SSRI’s made me a lot more laid back in general, so that things that I would normally fume about just didn’t get to me. From this post and your previous one, it sounds like your husband could really benifit.  I think I remember you saying that he had been on an antidepressant at one point.  Since stimulants often result in irritability as a side effect (particularly a reboud effect), the combonation may really suit your husband.

Response:

Tell his MD to recommend an SSRI like Prozac, Effexor, Paxil or Zoloft. These are mood stablizers and can balance out the mood swings.  

Response:

kevin wrote… Tell his MD to recommend an SSRI like Prozac, Effexor, Paxil or Zoloft.

If his MD is anything like me, you won’t be able to tell him anything. Sincerely, Dr. Jackass, M.D.

Response:

Some of the meds that have been recommended so far are worth checking out.  My advice when it comes to your husband’s mood swings is to let him be by himself, if possible.  I wouldn’t advise trying to "talk sense" into him.  When someone is in a mood swing they do not think rationally and they will only say things that are mean and hurtful, things that they (most of the time) will later regret.  So try to get out of the house by taking a long walk, visiting a friend, or seeing a movie, etc.   When I lived at home, my dad would have mood swings (which he still does).  I would just make up any excuse to get out of the house so that he wouldn’t turn around and focus his anger on me.  By the time I got back he, usually, was in a good mood. – Mike       – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone is living with person who has Attention Deficit, my husband was diagnosed 2 years ago, he is currently taken ritailin sr 20 mg twice a day. He still has mood swings and alot of other symptoms, I am trying to be real strong but sometimes he can be real harsh  with his words.  I just want someone who can understand and give adivce to me. Shannon    

Response:

Yes but if he/she is like MINE he will ASK what the patient thinks is a good idea. kevin wrote… Tell his MD to recommend an SSRI like Prozac, Effexor, Paxil or Zoloft. If his MD is anything like me, you won’t be able to tell him anything. Sincerely, Dr. Jackass, M.D.

Nessa — everyone has a photographic mind, some of us just don’t have any film.

Response:

I used to try to get my hubby into "a better mood". Guess what? : ) I think Mike has some real good ideas. And it does help to remember that he doesn’t get into these moods on purpose, or just to annoy you, he can’t help it. Try not to take things too personally. Lisa- wife to ADD hubby and two ADHD sons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the meds that have been recommended so far are worth checking out.  My advice when it comes to your husband’s mood swings is to let him be by himself, if possible.  I wouldn’t advise trying to "talk sense" into him.  When someone is in a mood swing they do not think rationally and they will only say things that are mean and hurtful, things that they (most of the time) will later regret.  So try to get out of the house by taking a long walk, visiting a friend, or seeing a movie, etc.

Response:

Question:

Sam I was on Zoloft for 6 years. It gave me back my life. Don’t be afraid of it. You only hear the negatives , never the success stories. Be well.  Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself… -snipped the background- So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy? Finding a good therapist that is a good match for you can often be more difficult and emotion/time consuming than finding a useful medication. And for some people all they need is the medication.  Everyone is different.  But one thing is for sure, medication doesn’t work as well in conjunction with a *shitty* therapist!!!   Don’t give up on getting good help.  Rely on your gut.  If one therapist is a jerk, just remember that they are only human.  Look for another one. Good luck.  Maybe keep us posted (so to speak) on your efforts?? Sincerely Stewart PS.  Your GP *can* prescribe zoloft for you, tho he/she *may* not want to do so, and may prefer to defer to a specialist for that.  If you really want to try an antidepressant and you really don’t want to talk with a psychiatrist to get it, you can find another GP who might be more willing to prescribe it for you.  Most GP’s hand out zoloft like it was candy (not that I personally think that is such a good thing, but it’s there….) — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Well, first of all finding a therapist who "fits" is important.  From my own experience, I was severely depressed for for years and saw a therapist for three of those four years.  We did absolutely no ‘therapy’ because I was too depressed to actually talk, but he cared about me, helped me have flashes where I almost believed I wasn’t evil – the depression was making me think so.  I think I would have died if it weren’t for my therapists support.   Angela

Response:

I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself…

-snipped the background- So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy?

Finding a good therapist that is a good match for you can often be more difficult and emotion/time consuming than finding a useful medication. And for some people all they need is the medication.  Everyone is different.  But one thing is for sure, medication doesn’t work as well in conjunction with a *shitty* therapist!!!   Don’t give up on getting good help.  Rely on your gut.  If one therapist is a jerk, just remember that they are only human.  Look for another one. Good luck.  Maybe keep us posted (so to speak) on your efforts?? Sincerely Stewart PS.  Your GP *can* prescribe zoloft for you, tho he/she *may* not want to do so, and may prefer to defer to a specialist for that.  If you really want to try an antidepressant and you really don’t want to talk with a psychiatrist to get it, you can find another GP who might be more willing to prescribe it for you.  Most GP’s hand out zoloft like it was candy (not that I personally think that is such a good thing, but it’s there….) — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

Hi Stewart, Thanks for taking the time to write to me. I do appreciate it a whole lot. I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself… I am a 19yo university student. I began uni. this year, enrolled in Arts/Music. I play classical piano. I’ve been very successful at it and was given the best teacher imaginable. he only accepted three students in the entire country. At the time I was over the moon, but very soon expectation kicked in. Success equals demise. Every time I find success, the expectations associated with it make me push myself away from it. I lasted a semester, withdrew from the Music component. People actually screamed at me. It was a hard decision. Music has always been what I do. I went to a specialist secondary school for music and dance students so it’s been my life for a long time. So that left me in Arts. I was studying Philosophy and Literature. I stopped going about 2 months ago and have failed the lot. Everything. Expectations! Always told how well I’m going to do, so I lash back against it. I’ve failed the lot. Everything. Anyway, so i’ve had a lot of time on my hands… and have been doing a lot of accompanying. Opera is my love. I am working with 4 fantastic singers at the moment. Only been doing it for a couple of months and already the expectations are kicking in. I’ve been too successful again. This really really bothers me. Positive comments from important people left, right and centre. Invited to play in front of 15 000 people on X-mas eve. And I’m not even studying music!!! So now that I’m succeeding at it, I’m losing interest….along with everything else *sigh*. I think perhaps I’m scared of success. If you are successful at something, failing at it becomes so much worse. So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy? Hope to hear from you soon. Keep well and try to be happy. Sam

Response:

Hi everyone, Sam here again. I tried and tried to get myself through depression without drugs…but finally admitted defeat on Wednesday. I’m now taking Zoloft, 50mg for a week then up to 100mg. I’ve been rather alarmed at the negative response I’ve been reading online about the drug. I’m sure you’re all bored to tears by the topic, but could we please discuss Zoloft for my benefit??? I would really appreciate it *ingratiating smile* Thanks Sam

Sam, I was one of the people that was posting about negative side effects from Zoloft.  But, the side effects I was having (it gave me really bad agitation and anxiety and screwed up my thinking even more than it was screwed up from the depression alone), are actually very rare side-effects for Zoloft.  Many people have had good results from this drug, and it’s actually one of the drugs that causes the least amount of side effects in most people.  So, I would try it, and see if it works for YOU.  If it doesn’t, you can always try something else.  Good luck! persephone — "It

Question:

Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

Response:

Took them all, but I don’t think it was ever in combination with each other. Like most of the meds I have taken, they worked for a while then ZIPPO. It appears that the Paxil, Buspar, Neurontin Combo I am now on has gone ZIPPO on me. When you feel better without meds than you do on meds, "Somethin’ is screwie in St. Louie!!"          Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

Response:

What dose is the ritaalin for depression?

Response:

Question:

snipped Hmmmmmmmmmmmm  now see here, after 3 years of hindsight, continuing weirdness in the monthly department, (Just now missing my second in a row and having predictable hot flashes,) I stand to tell you that there MUST be a strong connection for me between hormone levels and my state of mind. Depression, panic attacks and anxiety are ALWAYS worse around my menstrual time.   sue

Hi Sue, Emotional disorders (anxiety/panic/depression etc) are believed to be centered in the parts of our brain that make up the Limbic system. This is, in the main, our primitive brain, that which we share with most animals, incl reptiles and probably dinosaurs. Oestrogen receptors are prevelant in the Limbic, particularly the Hypothalamus. Indeed many hormones are neurotransmitters, so hormonal fluctuations can, and almost certainly do, trigger many PAs etc. All part of the joy of being female, I guess!   Ian (who is glad he isn’t) Phobias:  Menophobia- Fear of menstruation.

Response:

Hi Blue, Thanks for your words of encouragement! I am feeling better today, and am taking off work to go see my Doc re the hormone bit. Am also going to sit in my Attys office until he has the time to see me re the fact that I am going to have to declare bankruptcy. This is all a bit much for me. So many issues to deal with, so confused and upset. So, if all you fine folks here at ASAP start hearing me "shout" a bit more, please do not be surprised, or offended. Just riding the rollercoaster for awhile. Hope to get off it, someday soon..Thank you all, for your love and support. I do so appreciate it  (((((ASAP GROUP HUG)))))))) Take Care   Stephanie  :-)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Blue, Thanks for your words of encouragement! I am feeling better today, and am taking off work to go see my Doc re the hormone bit. Am also going to sit in my Attys office until he has the time to see me re the fact that I am going to have to declare bankruptcy. This is all a bit much for me. So many issues to deal with, so confused and upset. So, if all you fine folks here at ASAP start hearing me "shout" a bit more, please do not be surprised, or offended. Just riding the rollercoaster for awhile. Hope to get off it, someday soon..Thank you all, for your love and support. I do so appreciate it  (((((ASAP GROUP HUG)))))))) Take Care   Stephanie  :-)

Well, Steph, if it makes you feel any better to know YOU’RE NOT ALONE, I can tell you that I’ve been contemplating taking bankruptcy myself.  It’s not been much fun, and I’m trying to figure out a way that I can avoid it.   Now that I am once again able to feel hopeful, it isn’t such a depressing topic for me to consider — or for that matter, to talk about!  Just do what you think is best, and remember that sometimes we project the worse and then discover it wasn’t as bad as we imagined.  (I’ll not add the inverse of that statement, at this time ) Best Wishes — Blue (maybe I should change my name to Green? )

Response:

No!! Don’t change your name! I rather like it. The best therapist I ever had once told me: Ask yourself what is the worst thing that can happen, and can you live with that? I have often had to ask myself this! Thank you for your kind words. You are a very caring and supportive person. We here on ASAP are lucky to have you with us! Hope your situation works out ok..Thinking of you  :-) Stephanie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I just need to get this out, so please be patient, ok? I am going through early menopause (40) And I swear to god…I almost lost it today!!!! My body…is so out of whack, I do not even know myself, anymore. This ALWAYS happens, one week before my…"monthly". I needed to go and buy cigarretes, it took all I could muster, to go get in my jeep, and drive…1 Mile!!!!!! I go there everyday….After work…..So..why was it so hard?  The hormones! They will kill me yet! Before the PA/Phobia!!!  Crying all weekend…..Sorry to unload…  I cannot stop the tears. Dread going to work in the AM….But..is good for me….. Thank you all for listening  :-)  Stephanie

Hi, Steph — Gosh, it sounds like you had a really rough time.  Please, here is your apology returned, as it is not necessary.  Were it not for the times that I unloaded to ASAP, I feel I might have run too dangerously close to the point of no return.  So, I, for one, am extremely sympathetic to anyone who feels the urge to post about what they’re feeling or experiencing — and it doesn’t always have to be a pretty picture, as often times what we feel is NOT *pretty* — at times our pictures may look quite ugly. Today I listened as someone told three others of us a story about a guy who had been a client at the place I work.  This person relayed that this man said he suffered from anxiety, and then the story was told of the must-have-been-at-least-twenty meds that the guy was on.  The story teller said they had not heard of any of the meds the guy was taking, but figured they must be psych meds.  Sure ’nuff, they were.  Story Teller then said, "The guy’s not working, he’s too *anxious* to do anything," and Story Teller felt that the guy just needed to be working and then not have time for such nonsense — to paraphrase in a major way. And I sat there and listened to Story Teller speak, and listened to the quiet of the others who were there also,  as each of us there — excluding Story Teller, apparently — have had or are continuing to have encounters with anxiety and or depression and/or whatnot.  I managed to keep my mouth shut, as it was the politically expedient thing to do, but it hit me hard as I thought of ASAP and those of us here now, and those who have been here in times past, and those that will surely be here in times to come…  I consoled myself with the thought that a wise person knows when to speak, and perhaps more importantly, when not to.  There’s comfort to be found hanging out with others who have been where you are now, or who are, yes, there WITH you now — knowing of the feelings you are experiencing. {{{ ASAP }}}  I just know you’ll be feeling better after having unloaded a bit (so I hope ) Best to Steph — Blue (I can see clearly now, my tears have dried…;)

Response:

Hey Sue, Thanks for the words of encouragement! And a good laugh! Ifeel much better today (the cycle began) GOD!!! The feeling is right up there…right with the PA….I wanted to kill myself yesterday! I curled up, in a ball, wishing to be rid of it. I know that this is because I bore a child, at the age of 17..I had been forewarned. But, with my PA/ Agoraphobic  condition, it is pure hell!!!! Thank You, for understanding  :-) Stephanie  Glad you are here too!

Response:

Hi all, I just need to get this out, so please be patient, ok? I am going through early menopause (40) And I swear to god…I almost lost it today!!!! My body…is so out of whack, I do not even know myself, anymore. This ALWAYS happens, one week before my…"monthly". I needed to go and buy cigarretes,   it took all I could muster, to go get in my jeep, and drive…1 Mile!!!!!!    I go there everyday….After work…..So..why was it so hard?  The hormones! They will kill me yet! Before the PA/Phobia!!!  Crying all weekend…..Sorry to unload…  I cannot stop the tears. Dread going to work in the AM….But..is good for me….. Thank you all for listening  :-)  Stephanie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I just need to get this out, so please be patient, ok? I am going through early menopause (40) And I swear to god…I almost lost it today!!!! My body…is so out of whack, I do not even know myself, anymore. This ALWAYS happens, one week before my…"monthly". I needed to go and buy cigarretes,   it took all I could muster, to go get in my jeep, and drive…1 Mile!!!!!! I go there everyday….After work…..So..why was it so hard?  The hormones! They will kill me yet! Before the PA/Phobia!!!  Crying all weekend…..Sorry to unload…  I cannot stop the tears. Dread going to work in the AM….But..is good for me….. Thank you all for listening  :-)  Stephanie

Hi Stephanie!  My mom is beginning menopause and is having a bad time also.  I would strongly recommend going to your doctor–there are many options, and I’m certain there is something that could even things out for you.  (I wish my mom would go to her doctor, but that is another story!) I believe there are also some newsgroups that discuss menopause, and that might be something worth checking out too.  Hormones can really be a pain in the a**! Tammy

Response:

Hi all, I just need to get this out, so please be patient, ok? I am going through early menopause (40) And I swear to god…I almost lost it today!!!! My body…is so out of whack, I do not even know myself, anymore. This ALWAYS happens, one week before my…"monthly". I needed to go and buy cigarretes,   it took all I could muster, to go get in my jeep, and drive…1 Mile!!!!!!    I go there everyday….After work…..So..why was it so hard?  The hormones! They will kill me yet! Before the PA/Phobia!!!  Crying all weekend…..Sorry to unload…  I cannot stop the tears. Dread going to work in the AM….But..is good for me….. Thank you all for listening  :-)  Stephanie

wonderful, isn’t it, especially the "erotic" hot flashes <VBG CAthy P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Panic/anxiety Support Group, New Jersey http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

Response:

oooooohhhhhh  Stephanie!!  I hear ya woman!!!! <<<<Hi all, I just need to get this out, so please be patient, ok? I am going through early menopause (40) And I swear to god…I almost lost it today!!!! My body…is so out of whack, I do not even know myself, anymore. This ALWAYS happens, one week before my…"monthly". I just turned 46, and I have a running dialog with my doc about the effects of hormones.  I had my FIRST PA in the fall of 95 after a long string of <sh*t happens life events.  Loss was the key word that year.  My DH and I had spent five years building up a restaruant business for our mutual employer, and that was the year her health problems were found to be advanced colon cancer.  In the course of 9 months, we lost her, then MY job, in October MY DH was hospitalized with a ruptured appendix (no insurance), during which he was permanently replaced at HIS job, and I was only just working parttime myself.  Panic attacks started in November of that year, right around my 43rd birthday.  Life was soooo very difficult for me, I had lots of worries, debts, anger, grief, fear…….  and my monthlies started to get <weird as well. I was taking Xanax, weaning on Zoloft……  monthly crap was tossed off by the doc as—-  well—–  stress. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm  now see here, after 3 years of hindsight, continuing weirdness in the monthly department, (Just now missing my second in a row and having predictable hot flashes,) I stand to tell you that there MUST be a strong connection for me between hormone levels and my state of mind. Depression, panic attacks and anxiety are ALWAYS worse around my menstrual time.  My last visit to the ER, in August of ‘98,  happened in the morning, I came home around noon with a new RX for Xanax and Zoloft, and started my period around 2 pm that very same day.    Hmmmm. sez I, indeed, did I really need a swift kick in the head to FINALLY get the connection? My doc is unwilling to start me on ANY hormne therapy until I have been period free for a year.  Her feeling is that tinkering with the  whore-moans <g could be a LOT worse than continuing the Zoloft.  What <I would  really like is to lose the Zoloft and have Xanax for the BAD times, but she doesn’t go for that either.  So we are in a constant tug of war  watching and waiting to see what will happen next, and where this journey will go. ASAP has been extremely helpful for me in dealing with the PA’s.  I also lurk on Alt.support.menopause, where there is NOTHING NEW about depression, anxiety and panic attacks surrounding the whole Menopause woman. Feel free to e-mail anytime, whether it is to vent or to have a shoulder to cry on.   We can compare notes, and crib on each other’s experiences. BOY this is another time I can say < I am glad I came here because someone ELSE feels this way too!!!! sue

Response:

Question:

I just learned about this medication and am wondering if any of you here are taking it now.   — Laura Goodwin "Pain is fleeting, glory is forever. Remember: scars are sexy."

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I just learned about this medication and am wondering if any of you here are taking it now.  

     I’m not taking it, but IIRC, it’s an SSRI like med (it’s not precisely like Prozac, Zoloft, or Paxil, but it does inhibit reuptake of seratonin at (presumably different) selected sites) and it’s supposed to be more ‘energizing’ than the other SSRIs.  (That is, the side effects tend not to be sleepiness or fatigue; they tend to be anxiety, etc.) — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in kindergarten.  Like: There is great power in both creation and destruction, but creation focuses power, and destruction disperses it.  This is the superiority of creation.

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Hi, LaLaura:  I take adderal and effexor.  The effexor helps with my motivation and mood swings.  The adderal helps my thought process and energy level.  But I think that the effexor has an impact on my energy level too.  A friend of mine has been taking effexor at 37.5mg three times a day (I take same dose twice a day) and his blood pressure went up.  His ADD dr. is monitoring the blood pressure now before determining whether it’s the effexor raising the pressure, and if it’s not the effexor, then he’ll prescribe a higher dose of effexor. This friend of mine can’t seem to get anything done, and his motivation level even on effexor three times a day is really not good.  However, this is probably because he has underlying emotional issues that he’s not dealing with……As for me, I’m doing really well on the dosage I’m taking. …..There’s so much stuff to do, to think about, to assemble. Oh no, Mr. Bill, I’ve turned into my stuff!!!

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Have been taking Effexor for 3+ years.  It has been the best of all of the antidepressants for me.  None of the SSRIs worked, the Tricyclics had horrendous side effects, and Serzone also had some strange side effects. I started taking it in conjuction with Ritalin, but now take Effexor and Adderall. I do remember that the first few days Effexor was a little rough on my stomach, but those symptoms subsided within a week. Good luck, Lloyd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just learned about this medication and am wondering if any of you here are taking it now. — Laura Goodwin "Pain is fleeting, glory is forever. Remember: scars are sexy."

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I take effexor now and like it much better than the combination of prozac and dexedrine that I was taking before.  No side effects either. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, LaLaura:  I take adderal and effexor.  The effexor helps with my motivation and mood swings.  The adderal helps my thought process and energy level. But I think that the effexor has an impact on my energy level too.  A friend of mine has been taking effexor at 37.5mg three times a day (I take same dose twice a day) and his blood pressure went up.  His ADD dr. is monitoring the blood pressure now before determining whether it’s the effexor raising the pressure, and if it’s not the effexor, then he’ll prescribe a higher dose of effexor. This friend of mine can’t seem to get anything done, and his motivation level even on effexor three times a day is really not good.  However, this is probably because he has underlying emotional issues that he’s not dealing with……As for me, I’m doing really well on the dosage I’m taking. …..There’s so much stuff to do, to think about, to assemble. Oh no, Mr. Bill, I’ve turned into my stuff!!!

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Effexor reduces ‘reuptake’ of norepinephirine and dopamine as well as seratonin so it can treat both ADD and depression/anxiety. It even treated my allergies!  Unfortunately, like a strong antihistamine, it caused me so much urinary tract irritation that I had to stop taking it.

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Effexor reduces ‘reuptake’ of norepinephirine and dopamine as well as seratonin so it can treat both ADD and depression/anxiety. It even treated my allergies!  Unfortunately, like a strong antihistamine, it caused me so much urinary tract irritation that I had to stop taking it.

Interesting.   I’m grateful to you and to the other fine people who posted so far.  I’m considering trying effexor, since both rit and dex leave much to be desired in my case. I’m not at all depressed, but I do apparently have temporal lobe as well as frontal lobe dysfunction, which has rendered me virtually handicapped, although I’m a sharp gal in many ways.  For example, petty anxieties paralyze me, but I can be quite bold and effective in a real emergency. I have no sure sense of time or timing, unless I’m dancing.  If music is involved I’m brilliant, but I’m never sure what day of the week it is. An hour can seem like a day, and whole days can zip by in seconds. Whole years vanish from my conciousness, but I’ll never forget some minor incident from my girlhood.  Minor irritations that other people shrug off loom large to me, but things that terrify ordinary people are to me laughably tiny.  In short, I’m out of step with the entire rest of the race of humanity.  I don’t have a different drummer, I’ve got a whole dad-blamed different orchestra. It would not be a problem if people didn’t complain, but alas, much fault has been found with me, and I can’t keep a job to support myself. I would like to be able to provide for myself, at least. — Laura Goodwin "Pain is fleeting, glory is forever. Remember: scars are sexy."

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effexor works for awhile then you feel crappy again. Libido is gone forever on effexor

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effexor works for awhile then you feel crappy again. Libido is gone forever on effexor

     That’s not true.  It *CAN* happen; it can happen with most antidepressants, even those not known for it (some folks have reported sexual side effects from Wellbutrin, which has also shown a significant INCREASE to libido in one experiment), but the only way to know is to try.      Wellbutrin and Serzone are the two noted for having the least sexual-side effects. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in kindergarten.  Like: There is great power in both creation and destruction, but creation focuses power, and destruction disperses it.  This is the superiority of creation.

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Question:

Hi Andy: It’s been a while.  I am in the Bot B study too and recieved 10,000 U the 1st  time and had maybe 10 days that seemed to be some improvement, but only with  the tremor not the spasms.  11 weeks later, now 2 weeks ago, I recieved 12,500  U and once again, it was only a small improvement.  It is kinda dissapointing!   Like you, I have antibodies to A.  I will be in Nashville this weekend and am  looking forward to hearing some other ideas.  Although, my MDS at Emory here  in Atlanta, really keeps up and in discouraging the Selective Deneration  procedure.  One of the surgeons here is doing the Deep Brain Stimulation on  Parkinson’s and essential tremor with wonderful results.  I guess that is my  hope!  My MDS tried to find him(Dr, Jerry Vitek) today so I could talk to him  about when he was going to start this procedure on Dystonia patients and we  couldn’t hook up with him, so my doc is suppose to talk to him about it.    Did you have any symptoms of dry mouth or difficulty swallowing after the Bot  B?   I did, and became very excited believing it was going to help and it did  some but only a short period of time (2 weeks). Just thought I would share that with you! Take care, Kathie Nsta of GA

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Dear Andy, I’m so sorry about the Botox B not working for you.   As Elf already asked, I too thought that the B was made specifically for those  who had antibodies for the A. I can’t know for sure how you feel, but can imagine that your hopes were very  high.  Again, I’m so sorry and sad that it didn’t work for you. Take Care, Gina

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BOTULINUM TOXIN TYPE A    Botulinum toxin type A (BOT-yoo-lye-num) is used to treat    certain eye conditions, such as:        Blepharospasm — A condition in which the eyelid will not         stay open, because of a spasm of a muscle of the eye.        Strabismus — A condition in which the eyes do not line up         properly.    Botulinum toxin type A is injected into the surrounding    muscle or tissue of the eye, but not into the eye itself.    Depending on your condition, more than one treatment may be    required.    This medicine is to be administered only by, or under the    immediate supervision of, your doctor. It is available in the    following dosage form:   Parenteral-Local  Injection (U.S. and Canada) Before Receiving This Medicine    In deciding to receive a medicine, the risks of receiving the    medicine must be weighed against the good it will do. This is a    decision you and your doctor will make. For botulinum toxin type    A, the following should be considered:  Allergies  – Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to botulinum toxin type A. Also tell your health care professional if you are allergic to any other substances. Pregnancy — Studies on effects in pregnancy have not been done in either humans or animals. Breast-feeding — It is not known whether botulinum toxin type A passes into the breast milk. However, this medicine has not been reported to cause problems in nursing babies. Children  – Studies on this medicine have been done only in adult patients, and there is no specific information comparing use of botulinum toxin type A in children up to 12 years of age with use in other age groups. Older adults   — Many medicines have not been studied specifically in older people. Therefore, it may not be known whether they work exactly the same way they do in younger adults. Although there is no specific information comparing use of botulinum toxin type A in the elderly with use in other age groups, this medicine is not expected to cause different side effects or problems in older people than it does in younger adults. Other medicines  – Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. Tell your health care professional if you are using any other ophthalmic prescription or nonprescription (over-the-counter [OTC]) medicine. Other medical problems  – The presence of other medical problems  may affect the use of botulinum toxin type A. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical problems, especially: Heart problems or other medical conditions that may worsen with rapidly increasing activity — Treatment with botulinum toxin type A may give you better vision and the desire to become more active in your daily life; this may put a strain on your heart and body. Infection with  Clostridium botulinum   toxin (botulism poisoning), history of — Persons with a history of infection with  Clostridium botulinum   toxin (botulism poisoning) may have produced antibodies that may interfere with botulinum toxin type A therapy and make it less effective. Proper Use of This Medicine Dosing   — The dose of botulinum toxin type A will be different for different patients. The following information includes only the average doses of botulinum toxin type A. For  injection   dosage form:  – For certain eye conditions: Adults and children 12 years of age and older — One or more injections into the muscles around the eyes one or more times, depending on the condition being treated. Children up to 12 years of age — Use and dose must be determined by your doctor. Precautions After Receiving This Medicine. After you have received this medicine and your vision is better, you may find that you are a lot more active than you were before. You should increase your activities slowly and carefully to allow your heart and body time to get stronger. Also, before  you start any exercise program, check with your doctor. Side Effects of This Medicine. Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur: More common Dryness of the eye; inability to close the eyelid completely. Less common or rare. Decreased blinking; irritation of the cornea (colored portion) of the eye; turning outward or inward of the edge of the eyelid. Other side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away as your body adjusts to the medicine. However, check with your doctor if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome: More common Blue or purplish bruise on eyelid; drooping of the upper eyelid; eye pointing upward or downward instead of straight ahead; irritation or watering of the eye; sensitivity of the eye to light. Less common or rare. Difficulty finding the location of objects; double vision; skin rash; swelling of the eyelid skin. Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.

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I heard the final phase for Botox B will be in March or April and then probably a year later for FDA approval.  FYI Andy

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Hi Kathie, Thanks for all the info. on Botox B.  I’m really interested in this, as Botox A has never really worked for me and I feel it’s even made my dystonia worse. Do you know if ‘they’ are checking out the possibility of symtems getting worse like with the ‘A’ ? Keep us posted !! Gina

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Hi Everyone: Just wanted to let you know that I am in the Bot B (NeuroBloc) study here in Atlanta at Emory.  I am in the dose escalation study. 1st time, I recieved 10,000units (equal to about 200units of A), for me I developed hoarseness the next day, some difficulty swallowing for about 2 weeks, and a very dry mouth-like you get with the anti-cholinergics(Artane)), I have a very active dystonic tremor more than a pulling and it helped with the tremor for about 2-3 weeks the 1st time.  I didn’t recieve that much effect with the pain level though.  2nd series (12,500 unitsgiven=250 of A) was 4 weeks ago,that was 11 weeks after the 1st.  I had a more positive effect this time- the tremor is more diminished, the pain is decreased and so far at 4 weeks, it is still effective.  I had developed antibodies to A after 3 years, and that was in 1994 so this has been a tremendous relief to me.  It seems that the dose range with the B is what they are trying to determine, also the safety factor.  For me, it does not seem to help quite as much as A did for me but my dstonia has progressed in the last 3 years.  It is hard to pull out of my MDS much info about other patients he is treating with the B.  I have the info from the first double blind trials with B, and they were not using a large enough dose to see a lot of improvement,but there was more when they used the 10,000u (that was the highest dose they gave at Emory) so there is hope.  I will keep you all updated on my progress. By the way, you can e-mail Aethna Neurosciences and they will send you info on the 1st study. You all are a great bunch of people at a.s.d., I don’t get to check the posts often but when I do I can feel the love and support through my p.c.  I was in Nashville for the Symposium.  It was great!  By the way, everyone at the sym. was given a copy of the PSA that was done about dystonia by LA Lakers Jerry West, has anyone heard if that is being run anywhere?  Much thanks to David Stein(who does the 1-800-HURTFUL calls for NSTA) he was the one who arranged the PSA. Also, thanks to Deb who posted the highlights from Nashville here-I wasn’t attentive enough to catch all of that!!! Best wishes to everyone, Kathie

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Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris Usenet

If I remember right, Botox B is not quite as good as the original, but if you develop anti-bodies to the original, it is a very good option. Ray T.

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Chris,  I just got back from the NSTA supposium  (well the 1st day that is:) and they  did address Botox B (which will be marketed as "NeuroBloc") …. Some of their  patients are seeing results …. ?? I don’t know personally though… Andy  might be able to "share" some information with you <G I’ll let him "tell ya". Elf in Tn…Romona – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris

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Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris

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Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  

Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

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Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  I tried it twice and the second time getting the maxium allowed under the study.  I have heard that it has helped other ST’ers.  So, that is good!  I am trying Mexiletane now to see if this helps.  I don’t know if Botox B is not  working becuase of the stress I am under (work, personnal) or that I have antibodies to Botox A and still have them for Botox B.  Stress is killing me.  I hope I can relax a little in 98.  Will see.  Doctor thinks antibodies…  Lucky me.  Just thought I would keep you posted.   New:  Well my doctor is going to start his own study with Phenol (don’t know about this just like ITX which no one is trying yet) because it destorys the nerves to the muscles (they way I understand it).  It may be good for some people but me I don’t want to destory nothing at this time.  Also, he wants to try some of the new Parkinsons medication approved by FDA as well.  Will keep you posted. Andy

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(APENFAN) writes: It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  I tried it

twice and the second time getting the maxium allowed under the study. Andy!  We have missed you!  So glad you are back with us, although the botox debacle is a bummer!  Post again, okay? Love, Mary Beth

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Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina

Odd, isn’t it?   What works for one, won’t for another. Stress, as you say, exacerbates "at times". It’s as  if dystonia is responding to exterior forces, and what it is I haven’t got a clue.   Dr. Joseph Tsui, in conversation with Professor Eugene Smith, discussed this delema.  Here is how it went: If dystonia symptoms originate because of a problem in the brain, have you neurologists studied the brain enough to know what’s really going on there? Attempts have been done.  This is a conditiontion of motor control and therefore lots of programs in motor control are involved with that.  There have been recent publications on the use of PET scans–PET meaning positro emission tomography –in writer’s cramp, for example.  When you activate certain movements, the certain areas of the brain can light up.  They pick up some very subtle abnormalities–that is, a little deviating compared with the normal.  But all these are so embryonic in  their development that they are so difficult to interprets. We don’t even have a good pattern for normal. What we understand currently I can only put into a very simple example.  The basal ganglia is likened to something like a computer–a computer chip.  To simplify it, it seems to contain all the complex movement patterns of the body and store them in terms of programs.  These programs are stored there when we’re young.  You learn certain complex movements.  You learn to play a piano and  when you’re young the basal ganglia is a very plastic structure.  It accepts all sorts of programming, but once the programs are there, and as one grows older, this plasticity is lost.  That is, you learn things with much more difficulty when you are getting older. These programs are interconnected with each other, executing through the cortex so we can do several things at the same time.  I can talk to you, but I can also get my hand and play around with it without even thinking about it.  Then I am just pulling on a few switches.  These are all activated like  computer switches.  But in dystonia some of these programs go wrong, particularly in focal dystonia. In writer’s cramp, for example, the writing program goes wrong, but the hand is completely normal  doing any other things.  When you want to flip on  the switch of writing, it starts going crazy.  The interesting issue is that there are at least two writing programs–one using the wrist and fingers, the  other by using more proximal shoulder movements.  Now most patients with writer’s cramp when they write have problems, but when they use chalk to  write on a blackboard, they all right.  They can write perfectly well. So all this helps us to understand that it is actually much more complex than a computer–that there are motor-programming problems within the basal ganglia, and, if something goes wrong there, the action will be abnormal. That area also governs the normal posture of different parts of the body, so if that program goes wrong and it decides that the neck should be twisted, then unfortunately the brain would have to listen to this program. So we believe that it is probably a biochemical abnormality, but even that conclusion is  standing on shaky grounds. Because right now if you believe in the connections, maybe the  biochemical substance there is correct but the connections are wrong.  but the theory about this biochemical imbalance is that, in some  patients with dystonia, you can improve the  dystonia by giving them therapeutic agents  like anti-cholinergic drugs, and therefore we think that it may be a biochemical imbalance. But unfortunately not all patients respond to the same drugs.  A well-known example is that –if you know the transmitter called dopamine for Parkinson’s disease–some patients respond very  well to dopamine, that is, a drug that enhances dopamine.  But some other patients respond to drugs that oppose dopamine, and so we are completely at a loss.  We are confused.  Drugs that work in totally different directions can be beneficial in one patient and vice versa in another patient, and it is only dopamine. The we come to talk about cholinergic substances.  People have been using anti-cholinergic drugs, and there has been a report on cholinergic substances–that is again a different direction–that work well in the same kind of illness.  The more convincing issue  is that some patients with neck dystonia can come with a history that initially the head turns to the left and after a while turns to the right.  So we don’t really know what everything means.  In writer’s cramp, for example, some patients will start off having problems  with the right hand, then shift to the use of the left hand to write.  A small proportion of these patients actually after years develop the same problem in the other hand.  This also helps to support the fact that it may be a central problem rather than a more peripheral problem.  the theories are not very well founded.  It could be a biochemical imbalance, but I suspect that in some patients, particularly in specific problems, it may be something more subtle than a biochemical imbalance. Well, if you don’t know what causes dystonia, or if it has more than one possible cause, how can you treat it?   Or do you sometimes have to say, "You will just have to live with it"? Anything short of knowledge of the underlying cause we really cannot provide a cure for the condition.   Symptomatic treatments for the condition with all the medications have been very unsatisfactory.  Most patients get temporary relief but the side-effects are so bad that most of them would finally give up the medications, and therefore  it is not good at all. Although it is not a cure, botulinum toxin provides a very good symptomatic relief for many patients.  It has provided at least  some hope and also given the doctors something to do to help  the patient.  And that actually significantly improved the awareness of the condition.  Lots of research has been done, and the funding agencies have paid more attention to funding research in dystonia.  Botulism: the first reported case was in 1897.  The word comes from the Latin word for sausages-food poisoning from sausages,  bad sausage. Two types of neurotoxins have been identified initially-type A and type B neurotoxin.  More and more protein types of the toxin have  been found-to 1970 up to 7 types described: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (C further subdivided into I and 2).  In 1924 the bacterium was finally given a name, clostridium botulinum.  All neurotoxins are inactivated by boiling, and only A, B, E, F have been shown to give rise to human clinical botulism.  Only type A has been a marketed drug, though type F was recently investigated and shown to be effective in patients who have grown resistant to type A; the duration of effectiveness was much shorter weeks rather than months.  Type B toxin  is currently being investigated in a multi-center study. What the toxin does in the body is to go to a junction between  nerves and muscles, and it blocks the impulses between nerves and muscles.  Normally what happens is that, when you want the arm to move or want to contract a certain muscle of the arm,  your brain sets off an electrical impulse that is conducted by a  nerve like a piece of wire right down to the junction between the nerve and the muscle. But it is not electricity that goes through  to the muscle. At the end of the nerve it releases a chemical, and that chemical goes on to tell the muscle to contract.   Botulinum toxin actually stops this process.  It prevents the  release of this chemical from the nerve endings and as a result  it gives rise to paralysis or weakness of the muscle, depending  on the dose.  The toxin attaches itself to the nerve terminals; it is something like ingested by the nerve terminal and then within the nerve cell it exerts its action to prevent the release of the substance called acetylcholine. About the history of the toxin I think full credit has to be given  to Alan Scott, who collaborated with the bacteriologist Edward  Shantz.  They worked together in the development of the toxin.   Alan Scott is an ophthalmologist in San Francisco.  He had been  always longing to develop a method to replace surgery to treat a condition called strabismus, which is a condition of crossed eyes in children.  In these children the eyes actually look in different directions, and the way to help them is to cut away one muscle  that pulls the eye to one side and therefore the eyes can be restored to look straight ahead. This procedure, he thought, might be replaced by an injection of a substance which could temporarily weaken the muscle.  As the child growsup, the condition may be self-correcting, so if they are left with a normal muscle they probably will end up better.  He had been working on that, and in 1973 in a publication we found out that this botullnum toxin A had been able to do that.  That is, the substance is quite safe.  It does not produce any generalized bad reactions.  It does not produce any local reactions, and it can also give rise to a rather predictable weakness for a period of time, ranging from several months up to eight months in the monkey.  With that he worked on to actually apply it in the human, and in 1980 he made the first publication of its use as an alternative to surgery in children, and he was quite successful with that. The story would have just ended there, but there’s another condition called blepharospasm.  This condition, now classified as a neurological condition, is a focal dystonia. But because  the symptoms occur in the eyelids, most patients go to see eye  doctors because the eyes are

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Andy, I’m so sorry that Botox just doesn’t work for you!!!  I’d really do some major research before I go the "phenol route"–but if you pain is bad enough, you will get to the point you will try anything, but Let’s just hope and pray that it doesn’t get that bad!!  I’m here if you need a shoulder…you know, sometimes we all do.  Keep us informed on yourself, please. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andy,  Long time no hear from kiddo …. I’m so sorry to hear about the second round of Botox B (max dose) not working….:::major sad face::: Phenol … I’ve read about that … Gene sent a post with url(s) a few months ago …. hum ..guess I need to go back and re-read it. I knew that it could cause "damage" … but a niggling of memory is there …isn’t he phenol a effective treatment in managing some of the symptoms … ????? Good luck at the next dr.s appt … keep us updated on how everything is going …the good, bad and duckly(opps that wouldn’t apply since your with Dr.B:) …many hugs and lots of love from all the "elves" here in TN…Romona

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Andy,  Long time no hear from kiddo …. I’m so sorry to hear about the second round of Botox B (max dose) not working….:::major sad face::: Phenol … I’ve read about that … Gene sent a post with url(s) a few months ago …. hum ..guess I need to go back and re-read it. I knew that it could cause "damage" … but a niggling of memory is there …isn’t he phenol a effective treatment in managing some of the symptoms … ????? Good luck at the next dr.s appt … keep us updated on how everything is going …the good, bad and duckly(opps that wouldn’t apply since your with Dr.B:) …many hugs and lots of love from all the "elves" here in TN…Romona

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Gang, I had to add my 2 cents worth on this one-lol.   I, as everyone else have tried conventional and other medicine.  I had the facets in my upper lumbar spine fractured (I believe by chiropractor) years ago.  I worked for and was also treated by a Pain Specialist last year.  He used Phenol on the nerves going to the facets.  I STILL HAVE NO PAIN THERE!!!!!!!  I had some weird reaction in my knee and leg muscles on that side for a day or two – did not last long – no other problems.  You might want to consider giving it a try.  If I had that choice, with my limited experience and success – I would try it.     Teresa

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Wow Gene!!  What an excellent response – Thank You!! Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina Odd, isn’t it?   What works for one, won’t for another. Stress, as you say, exacerbates "at times". It’s as  if dystonia is responding to exterior forces, and what it is I haven’t got a clue.   Dr. Joseph Tsui, in conversation with Professor Eugene Smith, discussed this delema.  Here is how it went: If dystonia symptoms originate because of a problem in the brain, have you neurologists studied the brain enough to know what’s really going on there? Attempts have been done.  This is a conditiontion of motor control and therefore lots of programs in motor control are involved with that.  There have been recent publications on the use of PET scans–PET meaning positro emission tomography –in writer’s cramp, for example.  When you activate certain movements, the certain areas of the brain can light up.  They pick up some very subtle abnormalities–that is, a little deviating compared with the normal.  But all these are so embryonic in  their development that they are so difficult to interprets. We don’t even have a good pattern for normal. What we understand currently I can only put into a very simple example.  The basal ganglia is likened to something like a computer–a computer chip.  To simplify it, it seems to contain all the complex movement patterns of the body and store them in terms of programs.  These programs are stored there when we’re young.  You learn certain complex movements.  You learn to play a piano and  when you’re young the basal ganglia is a very plastic structure.  It accepts all sorts of programming, but once the programs are there, and as one grows older, this plasticity is lost.  That is, you learn things with much more difficulty when you are getting older. These programs are interconnected with each other, executing through the cortex so we can do several things at the same time.  I can talk to you, but I can also get my hand and play around with it without even thinking about it.  Then I am just pulling on a few switches.  These are all activated like  computer switches.  But in dystonia some of these programs go wrong, particularly in focal dystonia. In writer’s cramp, for example, the writing program goes wrong, but the hand is completely normal  doing any other things.  When you want to flip on  the switch of writing, it starts going crazy.  The interesting issue is that there are at least two writing programs–one using the wrist and fingers, the  other by using more proximal shoulder movements.  Now most patients with writer’s cramp when they write have problems, but when they use chalk to  write on a blackboard, they all right.  They can write perfectly well. So all this helps us to understand that it is actually much more complex than a computer–that there are motor-programming problems within the basal ganglia, and, if something goes wrong there, the action will be abnormal. That area also governs the normal posture of different parts of the body, so if that program goes wrong and it decides that the neck should be twisted, then unfortunately the brain would have to listen to this program. So we believe that it is probably a biochemical abnormality, but even that conclusion is  standing on shaky grounds. Because right now if you believe in the connections, maybe the  biochemical substance there is correct but the connections are wrong.  but the theory about this biochemical imbalance is that, in some  patients with dystonia, you can improve the  dystonia by giving them therapeutic agents  like anti-cholinergic drugs, and therefore we think that it may be a biochemical imbalance. But unfortunately not all patients respond to the same drugs.  A well-known example is that –if you know the transmitter called dopamine for Parkinson’s disease–some patients respond very  well to dopamine, that is, a drug that enhances dopamine.  But some other patients respond to drugs that oppose dopamine, and so we are completely at a loss.  We are confused.  Drugs that work in totally different directions can be beneficial in one patient and vice versa in another patient, and it is only dopamine. The we come to talk about cholinergic substances.  People have been using anti-cholinergic drugs, and there has been a report on cholinergic substances–that is again a different direction–that work well in the same kind of illness.  The more convincing issue  is that some patients with neck dystonia can come with a history that initially the head turns to the left and after a while turns to the right.  So we don’t really know what everything means.  In writer’s cramp, for example, some patients will start off having problems  with the right hand, then shift to the use of the left hand to write.  A small proportion of these patients actually after years develop the same problem in the other hand.  This also helps to support the fact that it may be a central problem rather than a more peripheral problem.  the theories are not very well founded.  It could be a biochemical imbalance, but I suspect that in some patients, particularly in specific problems, it may be something more subtle than a biochemical imbalance. Well, if you don’t know what causes dystonia, or if it has more than one possible cause, how can you treat it?   Or do you sometimes have to say, "You will just have to live with it"? Anything short of knowledge of the underlying cause we really cannot provide a cure for the condition.   Symptomatic treatments for the condition with all the medications have been very unsatisfactory.  Most patients get temporary relief but the side-effects are so bad that most of them would finally give up the medications, and therefore  it is not good at all. Although it is not a cure, botulinum toxin provides a very good symptomatic relief for many patients.  It has provided at least  some hope and also given the doctors something to do to help  the patient.  And that actually significantly improved the awareness of the condition.  Lots of research has been done, and the funding agencies have paid more attention to funding research in dystonia.  Botulism: the first reported case was in 1897.  The word comes from the Latin word for sausages-food poisoning from sausages,  bad sausage. Two types of neurotoxins have been identified initially-type A and type B neurotoxin.  More and more protein types of the toxin have  been found-to 1970 up to 7 types described: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (C further subdivided into I and 2).  In 1924 the bacterium was finally given a name, clostridium botulinum.  All neurotoxins are inactivated by boiling, and only A, B, E, F have been shown to give rise to human clinical botulism.  Only type A has been a marketed drug, though type F was recently investigated and shown to be effective in patients who have grown resistant to type A; the duration of effectiveness was much shorter weeks rather than months.  Type B toxin  is currently being investigated in a multi-center study. What the toxin does in the body is to go to a junction between  nerves and muscles, and it blocks the impulses between nerves and muscles.  Normally what happens is that, when you want the arm to move or want to contract a certain muscle of the arm,  your brain sets off an electrical impulse that is conducted by a  nerve like a piece of wire right down to the junction between the nerve and the muscle. But it is not electricity that goes through  to the muscle. At the end of the nerve it releases a chemical, and that chemical goes on to tell the muscle to contract.   Botulinum toxin actually stops this process.  It prevents the  release of this chemical from the nerve endings and as a result  it gives rise to paralysis or weakness of the muscle, depending  on the dose.  The toxin attaches itself to the nerve terminals; it is something like ingested by the nerve terminal and then within the nerve cell it exerts its action to prevent the release of the substance called acetylcholine. About the history of the toxin I think full credit has to be given  to Alan Scott, who collaborated with the bacteriologist Edward  Shantz.  They worked together in the development of the toxin.   Alan Scott is an ophthalmologist in San Francisco.  He had been  always longing to develop a method to replace surgery to treat a condition called strabismus, which is a condition of crossed eyes in children.  In these children the eyes actually look in different directions, and the way to help them is to cut away one muscle  that pulls the eye to one side and therefore the eyes can be restored to look straight ahead. This procedure, he thought, might be replaced by an injection of a substance which could temporarily weaken the muscle.  As the child growsup, the condition may be self-correcting, so if they are left with a normal muscle they probably will end up better.  He had been working on that, and in 1973 in a publication we found out that this botullnum toxin A had been able to do that.  That is, the substance is quite safe.  It does not produce any generalized bad reactions.  It does not produce any local reactions, and it can also give rise to a rather predictable weakness for a period of time, ranging from several months up to eight months in the monkey.  With that he worked on to actually apply it in the human, and in 1980 he made the

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Response:

(GGMCJP) writes: Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress,

that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same

level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina I am also that way.  There have been moments when people would of thought I’d be jerking/spasms really bad and I’m cool.  Then something else comes up and wammo. Thats the problem you just never know for sure.  And, at times I can’t recall anything in particular happening and wammo!  Where not boring, thats for sure! Anne

Response:

Hi Teresa, Do you happen to know ‘off hand’ if a person would qualify if they (me) are receiving a ‘widows pension’? Even though I’ve remarried, I still receive this income from my late husband’s place of employment.  I worked for over 20 years, but haven’ worked in the last 4 years. Just curious, but probably need to contact my local SSD office. Thanks in advance, should you have any info on this! Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary Beth, You cannot be working at all to apply and get SSI and SSD.  However, once you get it you can get up $499.99 per month working part-time.  So whatever you do, file before you go back to work.  That is what I am going to try to do.  If I finally get it, work part time, if I can.   Teresa

Response:

MB your SSD is Social Security Disability that you will be entitled to from so many quarters you’ve worked (nothing to do with income) but, SSI, depends on income–Jimmy and I together make too much so I can’t get it. When I get 65 yrs old, My SSD will just turn into Social Security and my employer disability insurance stops completely and retirement starts.  If you aren’t sure, you might better start out part-time—-full-time is very hard if you’re in a lot of pain especially–or, you may just not have the energy to work full time.  Something to think about, though.  My MDS says that I’ll never work again, even though I already knew it. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary Beth, I’d think that starting out part time would be a good idea. If you’re doing well, you can always increase your hours, days and workload.  It’s much more difficult to begin with full time work and then have to cut back. Also, IMO I think this might be a less stressful approach. Take care = Gina Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

Mary Beth, You cannot be working at all to apply and get SSI and SSD.  However, once you get it you can get up $499.99 per month working part-time.  So whatever you do, file before you go back to work.  That is what I am going to try to do.  If I finally get it, work part time, if I can.   Teresa

Response:

Yes, Yes, Gene, we will win this war against dystonia!!!  The only way that we can and are even supposed to live is one day at a time and hope and pray for a cure—if not in our generation, then, the next one for sure!!  but, I’m looking for it to happen in our generation, aren’t you??? Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Having read  the above, it brought back so many memories. Strange how we squirrel away  bad moments!  It  seems to  over shadow all  good recollections. I was listening to a scientist philosopher type talk about the mind yesterday.  And, he made reference to the very subject.   According to him, it seems that the moment we are born, it’s downhill from there  because there are so many diseases,  and potential for accidents, etc. It’s as if all the odds were against us. But, it says something about the human spirit  doesn’t it?   People  with dystonia are survivors.  We will win this war, even though many battles have been lost, in the end, we will win.  The trick is to  never give up, there is always another day ahead, and it might just be the day that a cure is discovered. Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

Hey Tommye Girl!! Did I miss something here? Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

Response:

Gene, You are just a fountain of information – don’t know what we’d do without you! Thanks for all the website(s) information on just about everything. Gina Hi Dan, So sorry about the Botox B not working.  This is just so frustrating!   I’m sorry to ask this if you’ve already posted about it, but have you tried the new batch of Botox A?  I’ve been ‘botoxed’ with the old A and found it to be pretty useless for me.  But (for me) this new batch of ‘A’ is just so awesome! I hope there are others out there who have seen good results with the new A, and others yet, who will try it. Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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Teresa,  thanks for the information…. I swear I had never heard of such a thing but I bet mine are beauts in my neck!   Sue

Response:

Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye

Having read  the above, it brought back so many memories. Strange how we squirrel away  bad moments!  It  seems to  over shadow all  good recollections. I was listening to a scientist philosopher type talk about the mind yesterday.  And, he made reference to the very subject.   According to him, it seems that the moment we are born, it’s downhill from there  because there are so many diseases,  and potential for accidents, etc. It’s as if all the odds were against us. But, it says something about the human spirit  doesn’t it?   People  with dystonia are survivors.  We will win this war, even though many battles have been lost, in the end, we will win.  The trick is to  never give up, there is always another day ahead, and it might just be the day that a cure is discovered. Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really

worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain,

having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for

taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I

finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then,

my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought

I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming

back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes,

stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

Response:

Hi, I’m sorry that you had to quit work today.  I was diagnosed with Dystonia July 1996 and was terminated by my employer in September 1997 because I was unable to perform by duties.  The pain is so bad not to mention the embarrassment.  I wish you lots of luck.  Have you applied for disability?

Response:

Wasn’t it also a major relief to finally say "Enough"? Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

Yes, Gina, goma doll, it surely was!!  the next day I started paperwork for my employee disability, as my district supervisor came to my house and brought all of the paperwork, we filled everything out, and it was just final–so fast!!  then I got pay for short term disability, built up sick days and 3 weeks vacation!!  and was able to keep my hospital ins. until I’m 65 by paying it myself and they were real great….they let me keep $10,000 of $80,000 life insurance that I had.  Of course, they still have my retirement, I’m considering getting out and putting into something else because if I didn’t, Jimmy will only get half of it, if I don’t get it out!!  It was a wonderful releif to know that I wouldn’t have to sit there 8-9 hrs a day with my head down all day–at about 2:00 every afternoon, the pain was horrible from then on the rest of the day. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wasn’t it also a major relief to finally say "Enough"? Gina Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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Well, I thought if Ralph is "right" and Louie is "left" then, Charlie would be "cold water" and Harry would be "hot water"–LOL  make any sense??? thought not, as I’m on one of my crazy "modes"!!! Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tommye Girl!! Did I miss something here? Gina OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

Response:

Mary Beth, I’d think that starting out part time would be a good idea. If you’re doing well, you can always increase your hours, days and workload.  It’s much more difficult to begin with full time work and then have to cut back. Also, IMO I think this might be a less stressful approach. Take care = Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Article: 8240 of alt.support.dystonia Path: betanews.compulink.co.uk!news.cix.co.uk!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.support.dystonia Organization: CIX – Compulink Information eXchange Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: oare.compulink.co.uk Xref: betanews.compulink.co.uk alt.support.dystonia:8240 Just re-joined this conference after a break. My son has been told that he will be part of a trial of Botox B in the UK, having become immune to Botox A. What is the current opinion about the effectiveness of Botox B? Barry

Anyone suggest where I should look to find more about Botox B please? Barry

Response:

Just re-joined this conference after a break. My son has been told that he will be part of a trial of Botox B in the UK, having become immune to Botox A. What is the current opinion about the effectiveness of Botox B? Barry

Response:

I had Bot B injx last month.  I, too,  was more sore than with Botox A.  I think there is a lot more of the Bot B solution that has to be injected so this may explain part of it.   Also, seems like they missed a muscle and hit my salivary gland, as I’ve had almost no saliva since the toxin kicked in.  They called it a "side effect". Oh, well.   Given this torture, its still worth it so far. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wrote a message about Myobloc, but maybe its the wrong name.  I just got the new Botox injections.  I am really sore and having strange feelings. Wondered how anyone else felt. I have read many posts of people trying the Myobloc and none of them seems satisfied with it yet.  Can’t help but wonder if the doctors should have experimented a little more with it.  Hope you soon start to feel better. Good luck,  Anna

Response:

I have had the same problem after injections in my neck ,side effects of Botox …during about one week and it was finished . Eat and drink in the same time , not very polite ,but we have to survive ! marie:) LaBeeJay a