Question:

Your ankles swell(edema) because the Prednisolone is causing damage to your body. Not knowing anything about Predn…, I suggest you try to do without this particular drug and its body damaging(side effects). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on salbutamol, atrovent, serevent and flixotide inhalers as well as theophylline tablets for a long time, without any side effects, but as soon as I have to take prednisolone my ankles swell significantly.  Each time I take a course of steroids it seems worse and takes longer to resolve after I stop them,eg still getting swollen ankles 2 months later.  I also have a lot of unexplained bruising on my lower legs – anybody else get this?

Response:

Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

I had something like that happen some years ago…I never got a definitive diagnosis, but they tentatively suggested a sarcoid infection…but it went before the hospital finished the vast array of tests — eric "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Response:

What are the other symptoms that you had?  I have had this pain in my lowere back on both sides right where my kidneys are–it hurts to clear my throat, sneeze, cough and is tender when I walk.  Is any of this familiar? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit. I had something like that happen some years ago…I never got a definitive diagnosis, but they tentatively suggested a sarcoid infection…but it went before the hospital finished the vast array of tests — eric "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Response:

For what it is worth, I swell when going through attacks.  I haven’t decided if it is the asthma or the albuterol inhaler and nebs, but I do swell, especially in the face.  Good Luck, Lisa Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

– Lisa M. DeSavage Hinsbar Laboratories, Inc. www.hinsbarlabs.com

Response:

What are the other symptoms that you had?  I have had this pain in my lowere back on both sides right where my kidneys are–it hurts to clear my throat, sneeze, cough and is tender when I walk.  Is any of this familiar?

the back isn’t…at least not from then…I had what I thought was a cold too…but it may have been exactly that and totally unrelated the one thing they were sure of was that the infection was in my lungs…which surprised me because I’d gone to the doctor to get the swollen legs sorted out — eric "the alternative to seeing things in black and white is to see them in full colour"

Response:

I don’t have any idea what you  have but with the pain in the back and the swelling, I have this bad feeling that there are some really icky things that this <could be and that you should immediately haste to the doctor and find out what is going on.  Best of luck. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

Response:

I have been on salbutamol, atrovent, serevent and flixotide inhalers as well as theophylline tablets for a long time, without any side effects, but as soon as I have to take prednisolone my ankles swell significantly.  Each time I take a course of steroids it seems worse and takes longer to resolve after I stop them,eg still getting swollen ankles 2 months later.  I also have a lot of unexplained bruising on my lower legs – anybody else get this?

Response:

Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

Response:

writes: Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

Which medications? At what dosages? Over what period of time? Be specific. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Just accolate 2 times a  day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit. Which medications? At what dosages? Over what period of time? Be specific. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Yes, I use Accolate, Flovent and Serevent and I have noticed a great deal of fluid retention.  I can’t wear my rings any more and my lower legs swell, as well.  Although I hate to take yet another medicine, I think I would benefit from a fluid pill. Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit. Which medications? At what dosages? Over what period of time? Be specific. Sheldon Just accolate 2 times a  day.

Weird… you said "I haven’t changed any of my medications". Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

These symptoms are not caused by asthma [except 'cardiac asthma' which is actually a heart condition, not true asthma.] This could be a rare side effect of Accolate, as edema and angioedema are mentioned in the Prescribing Info: http://www.accolateinfo.com/index.htm   [click on 'full prescribing information']. You could test for this by going off the Accolate and onto your steroid inhaler [Pulmicort, Flovent] for a few weeks; of course under the direction of your doctor. If this test shows Accolate is the problem, you could then try substituting Singulair, which is actually a better drug in most cases–take once/day, stomach doesn’t have to be empty. Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just accolate 2 times a  day. writes: Is there any correlation between asthma and the retaining of fluid (like a circulation thing?) I’m asking b/c my lower legs, feet, and calves have been swollen for about 2 days and I have no idea why.  Could it be the heat?  The humidity?  I haven’t changed any of my medications, but my asthma has flared up a bit. Which medications? At what dosages? Over what period of time? Be specific. Sheldon

Response:

Question:

Kathleen, I wonder if you’ve cleaned (or had someone clean) your house thoroughly? After spending 5 days in the hospital earlier this month, I had my couch and carpets steam cleaned and paid a cleaning service to come in a clean REALLY good.  Also, I purchased a HEPA air filtering machine and pillow and mattress covers that are made specifically with asthmatics and allergy sufferers in mind.  Look around your house – do you have a lot of stuffed animals or things that collect and retain dust?  If so, move ‘em out.  That should help a lot. I’m trying to get in the habit of putting my bedding in the dryer for at least 20 minutes once a week.  Supposedly, that gets rid of any dust mites that might be lurking. My point is have a good look at your environment.  It can make a huge difference. Good luck – Laura

Response:

Dear Kathleen, Would you believe that many women find that their asthma actually becomes WORSE during pregnancy (or that they develop it for the first time)? I have not tried the non-drowsy antihistimines, but I know people who swear by them, and also people who have had trouble with irregular heart beat because of them. Vitamin C is purported to have antihistimine properties, I have tried this and it works well for me — 500 to 1000 mg during my mild season, 5000 to 8000 mg during my worst times. I am stunningly sensitive to medications, and I can take this amount without difficulty. Take the powder and mix it with water so that you are sipping it all day I take the buffered kind. To determine the amount that is right for you, just keep taking it until your bowels loosen, and back off from there. I have also read that pregnancy is a factor in candida overgrowth, which may aggravate your asthma / allergy symptoms. I tried an anti-candida diet for the first time this spring, and am having my most trouble free allergy season in a long time! You might want to investigate to see if the symptoms of candida overgrowth match yours. Candida Directory: The Comprehensive Guide to Yeast Free Living, by Helen Gustafson ASthma: Breathe Again Naturally and Reclaim Your Life, by Mimi Weisbord The Yeast Connection, by William G. Crook MD Good luck! Patti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was diagnosed with asthma a few years ago.  Last spring & summer season went quite smoothly for me and I assumed credit should be given to the allergy shots and inhaler treatments.  I am now beginning to wonder if that assumption was right.  I was pregnant last spring & summer and my doctor had told me that you tend to have more resistance to things during pregnancy. It is now spring and I can’t breathe!  I am taking Serevent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Flovent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Ventolin inhaler as needed (which is daily at least 3x), Nasacort nasal inhaler 2puffs each side daily, Uniphyl 400mg 2x daily, Intex Pse 2x daily and have been on Medral dose packs several times. It seems as though I walk outside and I’m immediately seized up.  I do not want to spend my life indoors. I now believe the season was better for me due the increased resistancy while I was pregnant.  I don’t plan on having anymore children and really want to breathe someday soon.   Please help!! Any suggestions you may have would be helpful.  Thank you

Response:

You might ask your doctor for allergy testing.  If you are allergic to some of the springtime pollens then they may be causing your current problems. _If_ the problem is caused by allergy you may be able to reduce your medications by trying one of the new non-sedating antihistimines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed with asthma a few years ago.  Last spring & summer season went quite smoothly for me and I assumed credit should be given to the allergy shots and inhaler treatments.  I am now beginning to wonder if that assumption was right.  I was pregnant last spring & summer and my doctor had told me that you tend to have more resistance to things during pregnancy. It is now spring and I can’t breathe!  I am taking Serevent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Flovent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Ventolin inhaler as needed (which is daily at least 3x), Nasacort nasal inhaler 2puffs each side daily, Uniphyl 400mg 2x daily, Intex Pse 2x daily and have been on Medral dose packs several times. It seems as though I walk outside and I’m immediately seized up.  I do not want to spend my life indoors. I now believe the season was better for me due the increased resistancy while I was pregnant.  I don’t plan on having anymore children and really want to breathe someday soon.   Please help!! Any suggestions you may have would be helpful.  Thank you

Response:

I was diagnosed with asthma a few years ago.  Last spring & summer season went quite smoothly for me and I assumed credit should be given to the allergy shots and inhaler treatments.  I am now beginning to wonder if that assumption was right.  I was pregnant last spring & summer and my doctor had told me that you tend to have more resistance to things during pregnancy. It is now spring and I can’t breathe!  I am taking Serevent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Flovent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Ventolin inhaler as needed (which is daily at least 3x), Nasacort nasal inhaler 2puffs each side daily, Uniphyl 400mg 2x daily, Intex Pse 2x daily and have been on Medral dose packs several times. It seems as though I walk outside and I’m immediately seized up.  I do not want to spend my life indoors. I now believe the season was better for me due the increased resistancy while I was pregnant.  I don’t plan on having anymore children and really want to breathe someday soon.   Please help!! Any suggestions you may have would be helpful.  Thank you

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed with asthma a few years ago.  Last spring & summer season went quite smoothly for me and I assumed credit should be given to the allergy shots and inhaler treatments.  I am now beginning to wonder if that assumption was right.  I was pregnant last spring & summer and my doctor had told me that you tend to have more resistance to things during pregnancy. It is now spring and I can’t breathe!  I am taking Serevent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Flovent inhaler 2puffs 2x daily, Ventolin inhaler as needed (which is daily at least 3x), Nasacort nasal inhaler 2puffs each side daily, Uniphyl 400mg 2x daily, Intex Pse 2x daily and have been on Medral dose packs several times. It seems as though I walk outside and I’m immediately seized up.  I do not want to spend my life indoors. I now believe the season was better for me due the increased resistancy while I was pregnant.  I don’t plan on having anymore children and really want to breathe someday soon.   Please help!! Any suggestions you may have would be helpful.  Thank you

Which Flovent inhaler are you using? Flovent 44, Flovent 110, or Flovent 220 These are for Low, Medium, and High dose applications. Sounds like you need more inhaled steroids, so may need to increase the dose. Have you had your allergies tested. Sounds like you might be allergic to grass pollen, or other plants in your vicinity. I recognize all your drugs except the Intex Pse? You are taking quite a few. One drug that might be worth trying is the new anti-leukotriene Singulair, a pill you take once/day. Somtimes immunotherapy (allergy shots) can be useful for those who are very allergic. Be sure to breathe thru your nose at all times, to filter the air going to the lungs. If you have any problems with sinusitis or GERD, they should be treated. Ellis

Response:

Question:

On 4/22/05 9:00 AM, in article 3csld4F6m22n…@individual.net, "Susan" <Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: I think it’s helping, but if I get infected again, I’d like to know which abx I can use with the irrigator, instead of systemically?

Many doctors are switching to using the antibiotic via hydro pulse irrigation. You remove the thick mucus to get the abx in better contact with the bacteria too. If your doctor has any questions he can contact me directly.

Response:

On 4/22/05 6:06 AM, in article 3csb6cF6kvuh…@individual.net, "Susan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: x-no-archive: yes Murray Grossan wrote: We regularly combine Astelin with a Steroid spray. Are you using Pulsatile irrigation? Thanks for the info, Murray.  Yes, I’m irrigating at least daily, using some SinoFresh now and then in the evening, now that tree pollen is out. I’m about to finish the Augmentin XR, and I still have only a very small, almost pea sized area of soreness in the inner corner of my browbone (it extended almost the length of my eye when I began abx). I don’t want to have to medicate again, this is the third round this year. I just went back to my old allergist and am finally injecting potent desensitization doses of my serum again; the new allergist was so cautious (as convention dictates) that the shots had no effect at all. I’m hoping that the dramatic relief I get from these shots will knock down the allergy/infection/asthma cycle.  I feel a lot less dizzy and weak today, having skipped Advair last night. What drug would my doctor need to rx if we wanted to try irrigating with an abx instead of using it orally?  The same one? Thanks again, Susan

If you are having a sinus – asthma cycle, the cause may be failure of your nasal cilia to remove biofilm with its bacteria. Ask your doctor if using pulsatile irrigation would be of benefit for you.

Response:

On 4/21/05 7:21 AM, in article 3cpr7cF6nht7…@individual.net, "Susan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: x-no-archive: yes I have chronic sinusitis that is finally coming under control after a month of Augmentin XR and nasal irrigation daily.  I still have pn drip, though, and plenty of clear mucus. The reason I’ve become  very concerned is that this is now triggering asthma, something I’ve not suffered from in the past. I gave up steroid sprays years ago, thinking they might contribute to infections by immune suppression, but I have adverse reactions to Singulair, and maybe Advair, too (elevated bp). Does anyone here know if it’s safe and/or advisable to combine Astelin with occasional steroid nasal spray?  I’ve always gotten excellent results from the Astelin, so I’m not about to give it up. Susan

We regularly combine Astelin with a Steroid spray. Are you using Pulsatile irrigation?

Response:

"Susan" <Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote in message

news:3cpr7cF6nht7qU1@individual.net…

x-no-archive: yes

(snip)

Does anyone here know if it’s safe and/or advisable to combine Astelin with occasional steroid nasal spray?  I’ve always gotten excellent results from the Astelin, so I’m not about to give it up. Susan

I’m not sure what benefit occasional steroid spray use would be, since steroid sprays take at least 3 repeated days of use to have any significant effect at all, and to truly work well, you would need to use them at least 1 squirt per side every day. btw- I use Flonase every day and Astelin almost every day – with no apparent negative effects.   AW

Response:

Question:

Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

make a pro and con list for both jobs write it down so you can evaluate and re-evaluate it

Response:

Hi, Mac, Only you can make this decision.  As Margrove stated make a pro and con list – see which weighs out in your favor… Remember, you have visited the new environment which in turn means you have walked through the door (literally)… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

Question:

:Sometimes my youngest didn’t and I was called (as I had :instructed) on the intercom and then brought him with me to class and :did my work with him on my lap, being completely happy (meaning both of :us )   They still have happy memories of this, young as they were… This is so sweet Philip! You are a gentle, kind Father!! Jackie ~*~Let your life lightly dance on the edges of time like dew on the tip of a leaf~*~    ~Rabindranath Tagore~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser :was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was :sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t :freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play n the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. :I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with :what a well behaved content little guy he is. Dear Annette, sounds like you are handling it well I remember my childrens "first" days in pre-school, it was so hard to leave them there. Seeing how much they enjoyed it made me know I did the right thing. It`s good for Nick to interact with other children and adults and it is also good for you to have a break now and them. Take advantage of the this little time you get for yourself. I hope life calms down for you soon {{{{{Annette}}}}} Jackie

When my children were that age (there is 1 1/2 year between them) I taught at art school two days a week. They had a lovely daycare there and I cycled first with my oldest and later with both to art school, brought them to daycare and went to my class. It was great. They loved it there. Sometimes my youngest didn’t and I was called (as I had instructed) on the intercom and then brought him with me to class and did my work with him on my lap, being completely happy (meaning both of us )   They still have happy memories of this, young as they were… Philip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

: I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser :was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was :sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t :freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play n the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. :I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with :what a well behaved content little guy he is. Dear Annette, sounds like you are handling it well I remember my childrens "first" days in pre-school, it was so hard to leave them there. Seeing how much they enjoyed it made me know I did the right thing. It`s good for Nick to interact with other children and adults and it is also good for you to have a break now and them. Take advantage of the this little time you get for yourself. I hope life calms down for you soon {{{{{Annette}}}}} Jackie ~*~Let your life lightly dance on the edges of time like dew on the tip of a leaf~*~    ~Rabindranath Tagore~

Response:

Glad the daycare went well for Nick, Annette! Chip

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

Annette, Nick is such a trouper! It’s great that he was so comfortable at daycare. This is a big milestone for you both; congratulations. And you did fine, cell phone and all.  :-) It’s weird…. early this morning before I fully awoke, I had a dream about a cougar. Isn’t that funny? I have no idea why a cougar was in my dream repertoire today… and I get online and read that you are worried about cougars in your area. I hope all your animals stay safe from the predators. Great to hear an update from you; keep up your good progress, and enjoy that little boy of yours. xxoo Anne

Response:

Annette!  That’s an awful lot of stress you’ve been under lately.  I think you did extremely well under the circumstances.  I talk fast and a lot too when I’m really scared or anxious.  I’m so glad your sister is moving.  Nick sounds so cute!  I knew he would like the kids there.  I don’t know why, just a feeling.  I’m really glad that all worked out.  I hope they catch the cougar!  All we have to worry about here are the raccoons living under our shed.  <g  {{{{{Annette}}}}}  Please keep us updated on your sister and other things when you can. Love, Di

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

hi annette – just a quick hello from me, that’s all!  that’s nice work you do with the photo gallery. wish you the best. oh..wait…before I rush to sleep…..I know you probably answered this before, but, where (roughly speaking) do you live that you have pot-bellied pigs, goats, dogs, cats, etc….and an unwanted cougar? …i always have a soft spot for animals….probably because they’re such simple creatures! -bye Z (aka Rob)

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

It is always difficult leaving our child with someone else for the first time.  So glad that things went well and that your Nick did so well on his first day.  (((((Annette))))) Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.  Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own sanity and ASAP’s health, I need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.  Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own sanity and ASAP’s health, I need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

Question:

stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

grrrrrrr. sounds really frustrating. ~  sorry that you’re feeling so hopeless. hope you feel better soon.   e – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when)

I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.    I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy

I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes.   take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

p.s.  maybe it is boo.net?  I can’t remember trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.  doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.  I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* ducks flying rainbow jello.   I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.   linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi linda,

<snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.

I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.

Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.

    Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign.  In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.

oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.

    That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk*

Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello.

I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.

I noticed.  Okay by me. trill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves< betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello. I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW. I noticed.  Okay by me. trill linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi trill and J/c, Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle<

hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)  I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.  I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.   We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves<

<waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out.   getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it.   I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there.   Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too.   so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. I hope everyone who’s down right now with some flu or something else, is feeling  a little better. betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr

I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that.   I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy.   For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c. Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.

I think I’m coming to a similar conclusion now.  I’ve been on just about all of them and my response is one of either more depressed than before or it does nothing after an intital upswing.  Like I get aclimated to it or something.  I think most my depression is situational and until that improves, then that will also…eventually.  I haven’t given up on finding a T that can help me.  I just know now that the VA isn’t going to help me find one.  Maybe I can find one later if my SSI goes thru or my VA claim for stuff that happened while in the navy.  then I’ll start looking around.  I wanted to give this med a chance since this is a new PDoc (to me) and he’s supposed to be real helpful for us getting assistance.  He is less likely to play the insurance game.  But they still like their medications.  He’s seen my chart though and knows all the meds I’ve already been on.   I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.

well, that’s cool too.  sometimes I like it here better.  It depends, like   you say, on what I am needing at the time.  Sometimes one is just not enough and the posts seem too…um…nice.  sometimes I need to talk about things that aren’t so nice and politically correct.  or maybe get feedback from some others who may tell me something I may not want to hear but need to hear.  if that makes any sense.   Other times, that is just about all I can handle and I can’t do confrontations much at all anytime.    asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed,

yeah, I do that too.  not because I am trying to exclude anyone but more like I just can’t "split" my mind into that many area’s at once.  I tend to be more mono.   I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life.

why are you … read more »

Response:

Hey linda Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :))

Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!! most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)

Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!! We do have gr*ve concerns!<<<

 I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.

Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there! I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.

Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings? <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still.

OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery! As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve.

Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o( <snip I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.

Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens! Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey linda Hi J/c Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!!

Good!  Watermelon has more Vit. C than oranges.  I found that tidbit out in nursing school.  it was a trick question that we all got wrong. most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-) Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!!

Sorry to hear that her situation is like that.  I know you’ll be the best gramps though.   It can get wearing on you though.  I hope you can take some time for you too.  I know what it feels like to feel overwhelmed and guilty about needing time for myself in order to be more understanding when I’m around others. i wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again. Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there!

same here.  I just needed space from the inlaws and my foo.  my son is a whole different ballgame.  I do wish I could still get some respite though but it isn’t covered in this state evidently.  my so can’t deal with him very much at all.  no patience nor the desire to try to understand it seems sometimes.  that is disturbing me a great deal right now. I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing. Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings?

he stays in his room most the time except for appointments, meals and the occasional excusion to the mall or fireworks.  stuff like that.  He just can’t wait to get back to his computer, though and is very sullen and unsociable.  I’m hoping to find a youth group he’d consider trying.  He was in one in NH (ch*rch) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery!

ok, I can accept that may be how it’s perceived by others.  thanks for the compliment.  I just hope I didn’t make a mistake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o(

grins, ok, I guess I can do that.  thanks J/c. there are lots of good people online and off to make up for the few from before. I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here. Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens!

I wish I could send you something.  Keep watching the papers and flyers.  we see used pc’s and parts fairly cheap all the time in the little local "nickel" paper. (all want ads) Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

the weather is unbearably hot here.  and dry.  fire alerts all over.   it’s going to be around 110 next week  ick. enjoy your cool weather. linda — –~~There’s a difference between KNOWING the path…and WALKING the path~~

Response:

Question:

My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

hello – Upon my initial introduction to Effexor, I too had a rash, but it was on my face. My skin became very red, and then got flaky. It was not itchy, per se, but felt very aching and tight. I used an aloe vera-based moisturizer on my face for about a week, and so far, the rash has not returned. Have your son’s doctors been diligent with helping him with this side effect? If the Effexor is successful for him, it would be a shame not to try to control the rash. Perhaps a skin specialist might be able to offer some help. — regards, Compucat  ^+^<

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

Thanks for your prompt reply. My son’s rash comprises of dark red spots which itch and then turn to sores. Maybe he should see a skin specialist. Unfortunately, with the NHS, this could take some time to arrange —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello – Upon my initial introduction to Effexor, I too had a rash, but it was on my face. My skin became very red, and then got flaky. It was not itchy, per se, but felt very aching and tight. I used an aloe vera-based moisturizer on my face for about a week, and so far, the rash has not returned. Have your son’s doctors been diligent with helping him with this side effect? If the Effexor is successful for him, it would be a shame not to try to control the rash. Perhaps a skin specialist might be able to offer some help. — regards, Compucat  ^+^< My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng, My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

‘Rash is a relatively uncmmon occurrence but I strongly suggest you discuss this with his doctor. — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

Question:

I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty.   It’s almost like my hormones override these medications.  I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms.  I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system.  I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling.  Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night.   I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue.     My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria

Response:

Thanks Chip, I really like these articles…. For anyone interested, or that has PMS problems…   I took the other half of my celexa pill the other day, (because of feeling horrible, and PMS) and noticed quite immediate effects….as I was laying down for a nap, I realized she had given me 40 mg. tabs, which I break in half so they last me 2 months, or so that I can increase to 40 if I want to.  So, it turns out I’ve been taking double my usual dosage these past couple days.  (It never occurred to me, because I always broke my paxil in half). Well, the funny part is when I did this once before, not during PMS…..I was so tired, I could barely walk. This time, I feel great…..no PMS symptoms!! Today I feel very calm….and, even spent the day at the mall with some friends, (which usually makes me cranky being around crowds for long periods of time). I wasn’t a bit irritated…and, before the extra celexa I was a wreck. Now, I’m curious to see the effect it will have on me after my period….if it will be too high of a dose.   I really like this 40 mg. right now. Just an interesting self observation of my situation…. Bye, Maria    

Response:

: : Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, : "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for : Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive : and written for the general public, so you may want to : buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers : a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer : from anxiety and depression. : : Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia : questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. : Maria I had originally bought the book for my mother. However, she didn’t read it at first (being very psychoanalysis oriented) so I borrowed it for a while. The book is very practical; with chapters on sex, pregnancy, menstral cycles, etc. It addresses medication questions that I often see posted here in ASAP and has some nice tables on medications. I’m tempted to buy a copy for my own little anxiety-panic library. Which reminds me, mom still has my copy of Sheehan. I ought to start distributing library cards (grin). Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

Biological Therapies in Psychiatry Alan J. Gelenberg, M.D. Treating PMS While most women experience some physical and emotional changes premenstrually, a minority are clinically impaired by the premenstrual syndrome (PMS). For ages, unproven and largely ineffectual remedies were promulgated. In recent years, however, greater methodologic rigor has enhanced clinical research on this condition. Better still, the advent of the serotonin-selective reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants has shown that medication can alleviate PMS symptoms and reverse dysfunction. Several recent reviews present evidence and knowledgeable opinions on treating PMS. Dr Walter Brown notes that SSRIs have a much more rapid onset of action when used to treat PMS than when the same drugs are used to treat depression. (1) PMS symptoms improve almost immediately, while depressive symptoms typically take several weeks to lift. This author also observes that while serotonergic, noradrenergic, and other agents appear equal in efficacy when treating depression, only highly serotonergic antidepressants are effective for PMS. Further evidence for the role of serotonin in PMS is that tryptophan, the essential amino acid that serves as a dietary precursor for serotonin, and fenfluramine (Pondimin and Redux), which stimulates serotonin neurotransmission, also appear effective against PMS. Moreover, women with PMS show abnormalities in blood serotonin. What about other antidepressants? Yonkers and Brown write about an ongoing, multicenter trial of venlafaxine (Effexor) for premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). (2) Venlafaxine can be started at 25 mg bid to manage side effects and then increased by 25 to 37.5 mg/day each cycle until remission is achieved. Investigators hope venlafaxine’s rapid onset of action will be beneficial in this type of intermittent disorder. An open trial suggested that nefazodone (Serzone) may be effective against PMDD or premenstrual exacerbation (PME) of a preexisting mood disorder when administered in daily doses of 200 to 500 mg throughout the menstrual cycle. Anxiolytic agents too might have a role to play. Limited data suggest possible efficacy for buspirone (Buspar). Yonkers and Brown also use alprazolam (Xanax) for women with mild PMS symptoms of limited duration. They recommend a starting dose of 0.25 mg bid or tid, increased as needed. In many studies of drugs to treat PMS, agents are administered daily throughout the month. But some women appear to benefit from taking a drug only during the premenstrual week or starting with the first symptom and ending with the beginning of menses. For example, clomipramine (Anafranil) is efficacious when administered only in the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. Although there are no systematic data on the long-term use of drugs for premenstrual disorders, Yonkers and Brown state that symptom relief appears to be maintained. What else can be done to combat PMS symptoms? Pearlstein cites recommendations to increase complex carbohydrate consumption. (3) When combined with more frequent meals, this strategy might enhance cerebral uptake of tryptophan, thereby making more serotonin available. Some women find exercise alleviates symptoms. Other nonpharmacologic strategies include cognitive behavioral therapy and relaxation training. When symptoms of PMS, PMDD, or PME rise to the level of clinical significance, serotonergic antidepressants often can bring relief, with dosage and timing individualized for each patient. Recommendations for diet, exercise, and other nonpharmacologic strategies — as alternatives or additions to drug treatment — also can be considered based on preferences and circumstances. (1) Brown WA: PMS: A quiet breakthrough. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 569-570. (2) Yonkers KA, Brown WA: Pharmacologic treatments for premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 586-589. (3) Pearlstein T: Nonpharmacologic treatment of premenstrual syndrome. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 590-594.

Response:

Thanks Chip, I’m actually saving this in my files.   BTW, I do feel much better today, and will from now on increase my celexa dose during PMS.  I’ve actually learned a lot over the  last couple of days.  I apologize if I snapped anyone’s head off in the meantime.   Bye, Maria   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771

Response:

Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771

Response:

its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM

Margrove, you hit the nail on the head again.  I took extra celexa today, thinking at least it will do "something."    (I don’t think she’s gonna go for increasing my benzos, and I don’t want to ask her to), but I had a really nice nap, and feel better.   That is a very very very good idea.  I think I will increase my celexa during this time of the month.   It was a one time shot (depression is putting it mildly, I was thinking of ways to end my life).  It is still in my system, and I can feel the effects during this time of the month.   Thanks, Maria

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur

Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. Maria

Response:

its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM

Response:

Maria – YIKES…..deprovera.  I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law.  All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off.

Hi Cindy,   For the first time since I got this shot, I feel that "someone understands." My face actually lit up while reading this. (not that they had to go through the horrid mess, but that I’m not alone).   It was a one time shot…..that was enough…it just about killed me.  (literally). Thankyou for the information!! Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty.   It’s almost like my hormones override these medications.  I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms.  I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system.  I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling.  Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night.   I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria Maria – YIKES…..deprovera.  I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law.  All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical.  Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years.  The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others.   Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes.   So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy

Response:

: I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again : today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty.   It’s : almost like my hormones override these medications.  I become overly sensitive, : irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few : symptoms.  I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system.  I can feel it. : : I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling.  Maybe : that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night.   : I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? : I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue.     : My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. : I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. : ( : Maria Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty.   It’s almost like my hormones override these medications.  I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms.  I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system.  I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling.  Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night.   I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria

Maria – YIKES…..deprovera.  I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law.  All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical.  Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years.  The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others.   Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes.   So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy

Response:

Question:

A neurologist once claimed that beta-blockers and benzos can be mixed if taken in moderation.  Has anyone taken propanolol (Inderal) and alprazolam (Xanax) together or any other mix?  Amounts?  Any noticeable interaction? Stan D.

Response:

Hi Stan.  I am currently taking Inderal (10 mg) 3 times a day along with Alprazolam (.5 mg) 2-3 times per day.  I’m also taking Effexor XR (150 mg) per day and Ambien (10 mg) at bedtime.  Lots of meds!!  My doc just added the Inderal to the rest of my daily meds yesterday (on Wednesday)……..so I’ve only been taking it in combination with the rest for two days.  So far I haven’t noticed any negative interaction…. although I haven’t noticed any positive effect either.  I guess time will tell.  Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.   Sarah

Response:

On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:50:55 +0200, "Stan D." <es…@swipnet.se

wrote: A neurologist once claimed that beta-blockers and benzos can be mixed if taken in moderation.  Has anyone taken propanolol (Inderal) and alprazolam (Xanax) together or any other mix?  Amounts?  Any noticeable interaction? Stan D.

im on klonopin paxil and atenolol, the atenolol i asked for because my heart would race a lot even on the benzo klonopin.  it has helped me not thinking about my heartbeat all day long.  ask for it.  oh, its safe to combine the drugs together also.

Response:

Thanks Sarah and Hadez for comforting feedback on mixing beta-blockers and benzos.  This sounds viable then. Stan D. Stan D. skrev i meddelandet … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

A neurologist once claimed that beta-blockers and benzos can be mixed if taken in moderation.  Has anyone taken propanolol (Inderal) and alprazolam (Xanax) together or any other mix?  Amounts?  Any noticeable interaction? Stan D.

Response:

Sounds good where can I get some? Russ. Stan D. <es…@swipnet.se

wrote in message

news:FS_K3.9$KV3.44@nntpserver.swip.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

A neurologist once claimed that beta-blockers and benzos can be mixed if taken in moderation.  Has anyone taken propanolol (Inderal) and alprazolam (Xanax) together or any other mix?  Amounts?  Any noticeable interaction? Stan D.

Response:

Question:

The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  

All the anti-depressents, incl. Zoloft, take 4 to 8 weeks to become fully effective. The reason is that they work by adjusting the number of receptors for one or more neurotransmitters and this takes time. As you’ve been on the 50mg. dose for a while now it may be best to stick with it rather than reduce to 25mg. The worst is probably nearly over. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

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hello there… Me too on Zoloft and Xanax… Increasing to the 200Mg mark in a week I get the shakes every day about an Hour after I take the Zoloft ….I take a Xanax.5Mg at the same time……It helps. I also try to stay active as this helps to keep my mind on the Job at hand.I can get the kids up and go to work and nobody calls 911..LOL Hang in there and let us Know your progress    J

Response:

I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback.  Thanks again.

Response:

I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again.

That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again. That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

Hi there: I just wanted to add, I am a Zoloft/Xanax user too. To be honest, now I don’t want to interfere with what your doc said, but my doc started me off on 25mg, and told me to break the caplet open to halve it if needed, and then, again if needed, build up to 50 mg. So, it IS your body, and you might want to consider breaking your caplet into 25mg to start off with. Now, I take this at bedtime, along with 1mg of Xanax. I take 25mg of benadryl (prn) if I have a hard time getting to sleep. You also might find Zoloft gives you heart-burn, as it did me, and upset stomach. My doc just told me to take pepcid or zantac, which I have done, and it works just great. BTW, Zoloft is available in 25mg capsules, so if you find the 25mg works best for you, stick with it. My problem was I just kep’t on increasing my dose of ZOloft, up to 200mg a day, and I felt like a miserable zombie. Anyways, YMMV, and discuss any results or problems with your doctor. BTW, I would save the extra Xanax for the next day…if you run into some stressors or something, take it once or twice…depending on your day. Just make sure you get that 1mg at bedtime:-) Peace and best wishes.. James (3rd year Zoloft user (major)..hahah:) — "All of us get lost in the darkness… Dreamers learn to stear by the stars.." Neil Peart, Rush, "The Pass"

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