Question:

Hi! Sorry about all those bogus Boytko (or whatever) responses you got. A very good suggestion was given to you: to make sure you don’t have sleep apena, and that your asthma isn’t bothering you when you sleep. I would be wary of the theophylline. There are much better drugs for your asthma. Are you on flovent 220 at least 2 times a day? If not, I"d increase that and dump the theophylline. I had *severe* side effects from the theophylline that lasted for years (because I took it for years) and it really affected my sleep. Perhaps try singulair or accolate or something. If you are taking all those medications for asthma you should be seeing a specialist, not just a doctor: and they might be able to help you further with your problems. I personally also had similar side effects from the serevent, but I do know that many others tolerate it well. Intal did nothing for me, and is usually not an "as needed" drug- you have to take it all the time for it to have any affect, right? I found that Intal (and Tilade) actually made my exercise induced asthma *worse* because it irritated me and didn’t help. Also, with all the above, do try to start an exercise program and certainly improve your diet. Just because your diet hasn’t changed in 10 years doesn’t mean *you* haven’t.  It can make a big difference in how you feel energetically, and makes your asthma better too.(the exercise part).  It might also help you sleep longer- 8 hours is a bit more normal. -j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

writes <snip do try to start an exercise program

The original post states they walk ‘a lot’.  If that means a brisk walk (e.g. raises the pulse) for half an hour, three or more times a week I would classify that as exercise.  IMHO Walking is underrated as exercise but can be really good if it’s on unmade footpaths (much better that roads or gym floors as each step is slightly different) and up and down hills.  And it doesn’t carry dangers (or they are greatly reduced) of over-use injuries, and on paths away from roads the air is better and the dangers from traffic go away. And walking is weight-bearing which helps prevent osteoporosis – something swimming doesn’t do though weights, gym works & cycling do. <snip — Surfer!

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Mark: I’m 76 and for over 2 years have persistent (without attacks) old age asthma. In times of remission, all breathing parameters are OK. I’ve tried daily 20 min. exercises with a restricted air flow device for about 2 months……

Mark, I’m not sure what you expected this device to do for you.  Just because you make it harder for yourself to breathe does’nt mean you get less air.  Your respiratory center paces your breathing for you and it will make you breathe in such a way as to attain a particular CO2 level in your blood.  Putting a restrictive device in line with your respiaratory tract isn’t going to change anything. What you need to do is practice breathing in such a way as to sustain, over  a prolonged period of time,  a small shortage of air.  You need to do this often. Unless you actually feel like you’re not getting enough air while you’re doing this,  it’s not going to help your respiratory center accommodate to higher levels of CO2. If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do. …. with no effect, and then had the idea that asthmatics don’t need Buteyko, since they have plenty of hypoventilation, with (as follows from medical research) some positive results claimed by Buteyko (e.g., less sclerosis).

In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in.  You’re right, here the asthmatic is hypoventilated from the point of view of the blood gases.  But there is a state in between where blood CO2 appears to be normal and Oxygen is low.  What happens  here is as follows.  As the disease progresses part of the lungs becomes so badly blocked that it stops being ventilated all together, but it still gets perfused with blood.   That part of the lung which is still functioning becomes hoplessly overventilated, as can be seen from ETCO2 (End tidal  CO2) studies.  The blood that leaves the lungs to get into the arteries therefore contains a mixture of blood from the overventilated and underventilated areas, which means that the CO2 may appear to be normal.  But the CO2 component from the functioning part is very low, and this is what causes it to go into bronchospasm.  So we take Ventolin to open it up.  But that does’nt actually cure anything.  At this stage Buteyko alone won’t help either.  You need to supplement with steroids until you can get your breathing under control and then gradually reverse the process by deliberate hypoventilation.  As you can imagine, by this stage this can be a very difficult process. Sticking a marble in your nostril won’t solve your problem. Peter Kolb Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do.

So you are saying that I should try something that is dangerous and stupid before I warn others about it? Why don’t you jump off a cliff and then tell us whether or not it is dangerous? In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in.

What are you talking about?  You really need to learn something about asthma instead of relying on the stuff the buteyko promoters fabricated. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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Can I just mention that I tried Buteyko after seeing a documentary on the TV and found a course run by Sasha Stalmatski in York UK in Oct 99. I was on quite a lot of medication at the time, Flixotide, Ventolin, Atrovent, Serevent, Slo Phyllin etc. and before starting the course was extremely tired and could hardly walk upstairs.  I found the course very difficult but persevered.  One year on and I am only on Flixotide and Ventolin and although I visit hospital as an out patient regularly for bronchial/chest infections my asthma is under control and from having an asthma attack regularly every night 12 months ago I do not have any attacks at all now, I do have problems when I have a chest infection but the breathing exercises I learnt on the course have been very helpful and last year I had an attack of pluerisy and used the shallow breathing as I was rushed to hospital and it certainly worked for me.  By the way I have no medical training whatsoever so I cannot give medical advice it certainly didn’t cure me but it has made my life better, I can at least get up stairs now, I haven’t progressed to cycling yet but I am working on it.  I am a middle aged lady and able to do a full time job even if I do occasionally have to have time off for chest infections. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do. So you are saying that I should try something that is dangerous and stupid before I warn others about it? Why don’t you jump off a cliff and then tell us whether or not it is dangerous? In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in. What are you talking about?  You really need to learn something about asthma instead of relying on the stuff the buteyko promoters fabricated. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

– Christine Varney Dept of Physics University of York YORK  YO10 5DD  UK tel: 44 (0) 1904 432261 fax: 44 (0) 1904 432214

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I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit?

I find fatigue is the product of any single one or combination of the following: 1)      that time of the month 2)      being ill 3)      not getting enough sleep – I usually need 8-9 hours a night 4)      emotional upset like when I had to have two cats put to sleep last year – each time the response was to sleep for a couple of weeks, 16 hours a day or more at first. 5)      stress at work 6)      boredom 7)      prevarication – shall I do some decorating or get another ours sleep?      lack of exercise 9)      not drinking enough water especially if it’s hot – I’ve had a few night cramps 10)     eating too much too late – full stomach is not ideal before bed 11)     I go to sleep fine if I drink too much (e.g. more than 2-3 glasses wine) but then have disturbed dreams As you might imagine I’m a good sleeper!  Luckily too much time in bed gives me a bad back so there’s no danger (at the moment) of my developing a 24-hour per day habit. Before I got my medication (Pulmicort, and inhaled steroid) I *was* chronically tired due to lack of sleep and poor quality sleep.  Starting them made a new woman of me.  But I can’t find a new man to match! So I’ve got some new cats! so check (with your doctor) your asthma medication is working properly – especially at night.  When I’m bad I start snoring and give myself disturbed dreams and intermittent waking especially if I fall asleep with pillows as they prop up my head and close the airway (and are bad for my back & neck).  If you don’t have a peak flow meter get one and use it, drawing a chart of the morning & evening results (or put them in Excel!).  It should be pretty level – if it’s down in the mornings and responds to Intal it suggests you are possibly under-medicated in the steroid department. Also ask your partner (if you have one) how you sleep.  Lots of snoring could be part of, or an indication of, the problem.  Especially if you wake yourself up, or wake because you have almost stopped breathing (sleep apnoea). Good Luck PS Peter Kolb seems to reckon that everything is caused by CHVS. — Surfer!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. Hello I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).  This was first discovered by American Field Surgeon DaCosta in 1870 when he descibed this condition sufffered by American Soldiers under combat stress during the civil war.  While the mechanism by which such stress can cause chronic hyperventilation is well known and understood,  few doctors even seem to be aware of its existence.  This is in spite of the fact that prevalence in the community is between 6 and 11%  (References  have been given on an earlier occasion). There is a very logical treatment which has been developed in Russia for CHVS.  They found it so successful (and quite dramatically so) in the treatment of asthma,  that it has been brought to the west largely as a therapy that reverses the asthma condition.  But any of the symptoms of CHVS can be successfully treated with this therapy. Unfortunately, unlike with conventional medicine,  there are no magic bullets.  Buteyko therapy requires a lot of work and a lot of time, but at least it enables you to get your health back.   Many people have found that there is sufficient information on our web site to help you get rid of your asthma. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng),MSc(Med),CPEng(Biomed) BIOMEDICAL ENGINEER Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics

Mark: I’m 76 and for over 2 years have persistent (without attacks) old age asthma. In times of remission, all breathing parameters are OK. I’ve tried daily 20 min. exercises with a restricted air flow device for about 2 months – with no effect, and then had the idea that asthmatics don’t need Buteyko, since they have plenty of hypoventilation, with (as follows from medical research) some positive results claimed by Buteyko (e.g., less sclerosis). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks..

Hello I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).  This was first discovered by American Field Surgeon DaCosta in 1870 when he descibed this condition sufffered by American Soldiers under combat stress during the civil war.  While the mechanism by which such stress can cause chronic hyperventilation is well known and understood,  few doctors even seem to be aware of its existence.  This is in spite of the fact that prevalence in the community is between 6 and 11%  (References  have been given on an earlier occasion).   There is a very logical treatment which has been developed in Russia for CHVS.  They found it so successful (and quite dramatically so) in the treatment of asthma,  that it has been brought to the west largely as a therapy that reverses the asthma condition.  But any of the symptoms of CHVS can be successfully treated with this therapy. Unfortunately, unlike with conventional medicine,  there are no magic bullets.  Buteyko therapy requires a lot of work and a lot of time, but at least it enables you to get your health back.   Many people have found that there is sufficient information on our web site to help you get rid of your asthma. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng),MSc(Med),CPEng(Biomed) BIOMEDICAL ENGINEER Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot!

Try sleeping an extra 1/2 hour.  Most people do not get the amount of sleep they need. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).

Can you name something that is not a symptom of this imaginary ailment? BTW, can you provide any current medical references that support your diagnosis? And how about providing your qualifications to dispense medical advice? No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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Question:

Prozac May Soon Have a Generic Brand (washingtonpost.com)        By Katrina Hull       Associated Press Writer       Monday, July 30, 2001; 5:48 PM       INDIANAPOLIS

Question:

Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. I own what my family refers to as ‘the suitcase’.  It’s a BIG purse [actually an athletic bag].  Just inside the legal limit for carry-on for the airlines.  Amazing how much stuff you can get in there.  :) Chris Owens

I’m laughing! The last time the whole family flew somewhere, I carried all meds in a huge athletic bag. When a security guard stopped me to look through the bag, I just kinda threw it at him and said, "Whatever. It’s all medicine. Knock yourself out." I ignored him and tried to corral the kids. He unzipped it and took a single look. He rolled his eyes and said, "Man, I’m not going through all that. Go ahead." Mary

Response:

I use the Aerogear by the Aerochamber people.  It has an Aerochamber and a Truzone pfm all in a fanny pack.  It is very convenient and also holds about 3 MDI’s.  I can let you know where to get one if you are interested.

Response:

I use the Pulmicort Inhaler (budesonide) this comes with a small spacer.  It measures about an inch square and 3 inches long, expanding to twice its length when used. I find it better than the normal inhaler as it does not effect my throat as the other bectotide did. Steve

Your email address indicates you are in the UK. In the US, Pulmicort is only available as a Turbuhaler (DPI) No spacer is used since it is breath actuated. The best spacer is probably the AeroChamber, a medium size valved device with whistle. For those who want a small spacer for travel, the OptiHaler is very compact, the MDI may be carried in the device. Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. Thanks for any suggestions. Margaret

Response:

I use the Ellipse spacer; both my Serevent and Flovent fit right into it. That and my peak flow both fit into a small handbag quite easily. Great for carry-on to airplanes! C-ko "ambition makes you look very ugly kicking squealing gucci little piggy why don’t you remember my name you runt?" paranoid android — radiohead

Response:

Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky.

I own what my family refers to as ‘the suitcase’.  It’s a BIG purse [actually an athletic bag].  Just inside the legal limit for carry-on for the airlines.  Amazing how much stuff you can get in there.  :) Chris Owens

Response:

Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. I own what my family refers to as ‘the suitcase’.  It’s a BIG purse [actually an athletic bag].  Just inside the legal limit for carry-on for the airlines.  Amazing how much stuff you can get in there.  :) Chris Owens

 It’s best to carry your spacer, becuase then you can avoid and oral yeast infection.

Response:

When I travel, I pack all my meds, my spacer, and my peak flow meter in an insulated lunch box.  The insulated part was for if they had to sit in the trunk of my car for several hours, like when I’m going home for Christmas break.  So far, I’ve never had any trouble with the inhalers getting too hot or cold, and everything is in one place. janet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. Thanks for any suggestions. Margaret

Response:

Hi I use the Pulmicort Inhaler (budesonide) this comes with a small spacer.  It measures about an inch square and 3 inches long, expanding to twice its length when used. I find it better than the normal inhaler as it does not effect my throat as the other bectotide did. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. Thanks for any suggestions. Margaret

Response:

Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. Thanks for any suggestions. Margaret

Response:

Hi all, For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. Thanks for any suggestions. Margaret

I have a really nifty spacer. Its no bigger than a ventolin inhaler itself. I can’t get them commercially but they get left as promotional samples at my drugstore. They are made by Boehringer Ingelheim ( in Connecticut ) and are called Inhalation Aids Jerry Freedman,Jr

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:Hi all, :For those of you who use a spacer when taking oral sprays (as I do) do you :take your spacer with you when you travel and if so, how do you pack :it/take it with you? Mind’s rather bulky. I do use one and always take mine with me when I travel. mine comes apart into two sections that fit together (like this!)  / /   / /    / a) In that shape they fit into the pocket of a rucksack (30-40L) and sundries likes the inhalers and/or a PFL can fir into the holow. b) It is also a convenient shape for putting into a suitace, and socks can fill the hollow. :Thanks for any suggestions. :Margaret : : : Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 1223 334600 University of Cambridge Computing Service New Museums Site                   Email: Remove "nospam" from above Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG

Response:

Question:

napi said: "The reason I wrote was for any other ways of getting his motivation up so when he gets his grades back and gets back to gymnastics, he will still have the motivation to continue to do his work." I would urge you, as strongly as I can, to NOT look at this as a motivation issue.

Response:

I would urge you, as strongly as I can, to NOT look at this as a motivation issue. Napi is asking:

What kind of issue is it?  I am pulling at strings here.  I am wondering, why it wouldn’t be a motivational problem when he can discuss things and do reports that are interesting to him? I don’t know what you mean.

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"What kind of issue is it?  I am pulling at strings here.  I am wondering, why it wouldn’t be a motivational problem when he can discuss things and do reports that are interesting to him? I don’t know what you mean." Because this "interest" thing is a "red herring" when it comes to ADHD. We don’t choose what we’re interested in. The topic or activity chooses us. By that I mean –we have a narrower path we can walk on these things. The topic has to go to strong interests of ours, feed into a talent or ability of ours — some special quality has to be there. We can’t get interested in the causes of WWII just because the history teacher assigned it. It’s very hard to explain if you don’t have ADHD, but it isn’t motivation, and it isn’t "choice."

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Hi.  I am new here.  can you help me with the hundreds of questions I have about diagnosing ADD?  My son is 8 and we have started testing him. After filling out surveys, meeting with teachers,  and going to the doctor,I am still very unsure about the whole thing. ( so is the doc.) The school seems convinced he has ADD but I’m not.  I want to do everything I possibly can for my son. But how do you really know its ADD? I hear other parents know without a doubt and are thankful for meds.  any advice or opinions would be priceless.  Sorry this note is going to be so long but I wanted to comment on the sports thing.  Both my kids have been in tae kwon do for about a month.  I think it is an excellent program that ADDers can benifit from.  They have a unique way of motivating a kid(or adult) if you go to the right school. I wont ramble on with all the details but its worth checking into.

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He knows about his condition.  There is a wonderful site called brain wiring on the web.  We looked at it and there was an interesting article about how ADDers are more like the hunters of old,  focus had to shift easily and lots of other cool things that made hime feel better.  We took him out temporarily from sports.  When he brings his classwork to present and for 2 weeks of getting all work done, he can go back to his sport.  It is not a team like sport so the gym knows what is going on and has a place still for him.  He has a plan on the fridge door and knows his chores.  He does them.  The only problem we are having is school work.  It isn’t wierd, I know, but it makes him feel different.  Knowing that he has no ambition for this school thing.  He wants to be a scientist when he grows up and we keep informing him that he needs school to get where he wants to be.  He understands, just doesn’t want to go through the steps to get there.

Just a comment here…. I did original scientific research even tho it wasn’t the field in which I obtained a degree.  With luck and brains (and more LUCK!) he/she may get to do what he wants. I did a tremendous amount of reading in the field I found most interesting, on my own time, but it paid off.

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I would like to thank you all for all of your input.  The discontinuing sports is only going to be temporary.  Maybe 3 weeks.  He is in gymnastics. His place in class is being held.  I do realize that sports are very important to him and to me.  I love to see him excel in something he loves. Not many ADDer children get a chance to smile at school because they have been "pegged" as a bad kid or for not listening.  It is wonderful to see him go wild and have fun and not get in trouble for being active.  And that it should not be taken away.  So we told him that the sport is on hold for his classwork.  He knows and understands what his fast little brain is going through.  He is smart enough and has been taught cause and effect.  He understands that the act of not getting his work done will effect his ability to go and do something he loves.  As it stands right now, he was taken out on Jan 12th.  His back class work is almost current and he is doing his best in class to get things turned in on time.  Sports was used as a last resort.  We tried to give him as much possibilities for bringing up his classwork.  Since he has been out of sports, that is the only thing that did motivate him to buckle down, and get it done. The reason I wrote was for any other ways of getting his motivation up so when he gets his grades back and gets back to gymnastics, he will still have the motivation to continue to do his work. I do again thank you  and if anyone has any suggestions still, I would love to hear them.

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I have read that as a general rule, rewards and punishments do not work well for ADD children. They sure didn’t for us. ADDers sometimes simply *can’t* do the work–motivated or not.

I think this is a very valid statement:  At least in my own ADD experience, I have found that all too often, the very academic subject areas in which I am MOST interested and/or initially excited about turn out to be the areas in which I have the most trouble staying focused, completing the work, keeping up.  I don’t know why this is; it certainly doesn’t make sense.  Actually, I do in fact have a theory or two as to why I do this, but it’s kind of hard to explain… Furthermore, I wanted to comment on the following: "Not to be flip, but I do not have ADD, and when I’m not interested in something, I don’t have much motivation either. So, to me, this actually sounds normal." I think you’re very right in pointing this out, Nancy.  In the past, you have stated yourself that often, ADDers posting in here can get a bit carried away in their analysis of personality types, behaviors, ways of thinking, etc…. And as a result, there seems to be a tendency to over-classify such traits as being completely ADD-related, when in fact they aren’t uncommon traits among the general population.   I’m not trying to criticize or anything – I know that I personally tend to observe a quirk of mine, and then assume that it is a part of my ADD, even though it may not be… and then sometimes, it’s just really hard to tell… So anyway, Nancy, I just wanted to let you know, that I really appriciate having the non-ADDer point of view on certain topics — It helps keep things in perspective megan

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you tried discussing with him what his condition is? Also, if he is shown how learning can help him in the future, with an example of how he would benefit it might get him to see the big picture. Additionally, helping you son to schedule his days can help to keep him on a path of remembering, and prioritizing certain daily activites that need to be accomplished.  Placing the schedule in a place that is plain view (i.e. the frig, or on his door) will also help with accountability.  However, taking him out of sports may have an affect on his motivation.  If he has no serious physical outlet where he can see some form of progress, or strive towards a goal that he can reach physically, then he will have no motivation for those things that are more cerebral than physical, thusly he will not completely grasp complex concepts, unless he has a desire to do so. Just some thoughts from an old ADD’er He knows about his condition.  There is a wonderful site called brain

wiring on the web.  We looked at it and there was an interesting article about how ADDers are more like the hunters of old,  focus had to shift easily and lots of other cool things that made hime feel better.  We took him out temporarily from sports.  When he brings his classwork to present and for 2 weeks of getting all work done, he can go back to his sport.  It is not a team like sport so the gym knows what is going on and has a place still for him.  He has a plan on the fridge door and knows his chores.  He does them.  The only problem we are having is school work.  It isn’t wierd, I know, but it makes him feel different.  Knowing that he has no ambition for this school thing.  He wants to be a scientist when he grows up and we keep informing him that he needs school to get where he wants to be.  He understands, just doesn’t want to go through the steps to get there.

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Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.

Not to be flip, but I do not have ADD, and when I’m not interested in something, I don’t have much motivation either. So, to me, this actually sounds normal.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.

My 16 yo ADD son has always been active in sports (since he was a preschooler.) When I have talked to different school counselors and to doctors over the years about the wisdom of taking him out of sports (hoping that would either: 1. motivate him to work harder in school, or 2. spend more time on his school work), *every* advisor said, "Don’t do it. He needs sports." Yes, school should come first, but school isn’t everything. Physical activities, like sports, aren’t *rewards.* They should be part of every child’s life. All kids should have a physical outlet. Kids like my son especially need the physical outlet. Sports provide that AND structure, and supervision. Sports taught him lessons in cooperation and teamwork, good sportsmanship, responsibility, grace under pressure, working hard for a goal. Sports gave my son a chance to be successful. A boost to his self-esteem and self-confidence. Something he needs after the mental and psychological exhaustion of trying to deal with academics. Also, at least in our case, taking away something he liked to motivate him to do something he didn’t, never worked. We did take away some other things he liked, like TV. But, eventually, we had taken away just about everything that gave him some joy, and all he had, except for sports, was a life of dreary (to him) school work and chores. No wonder he felt so bad. Sports just got my son his first two jobs. He referees youth soccer games and he has just been hired as a soccer instructor. He loves both jobs! It’s wonderful to see him so enthusiastic about working.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.

I have read that as a general rule, rewards and punishments do not work well for ADD children. They sure didn’t for us. ADDers sometimes simply *can’t* do the work–motivated or not. They also have difficulty linking actions to consequences.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

I wish I could offer you a solution. So many of us have struggled with academic issues. Maybe it’s time for you and the school to revisit his IEP if he has one, or his 504 plan. Sounds like he may need more classroom support and accommodations. Nancy Unique, like everyone else

Response:

napi said: "This is me again.  Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home.  He does his chores.  He loves animals.  He plays when his homework is done.  He is a normal 10 year old boy.  We thought he was depressed.  So we took him to psychiatrists.  They said he is not.  Which is good.  We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary.  We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help.  It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades." Please — this is a DEVASTATINGLY bad outcome. I urge you to rethink the notion that you "don’t want him on more medication than absolutely necessary." If meds will help here — they really sound ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to me… this is a terrible experience for your son he’s going through.

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The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested.  Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well.

       Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least.   At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to.  It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you This is me again.  Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home.  He does his chores.  He loves animals.  He plays when his homework is done.  He is a normal 10 year old boy.  We thought he was depressed.  So we took him to psychiatrists.  They said he is not.  Which is good.  We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary.  We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help.  It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades. He does get punished when he does wrong.  But he doesn’t get spankings. Only for the fact that he is getting older and talking about what needs to be done for punishment seems to make him think more about what he has done. As I have said before, he gets his medication [Dexedrine 10mg bid] and he seems to be ok for quieting down.  He just doesn’t have any motivation when not interested.  Behavior modifications include leneancy regarding writing [print not cursive], doing less written work more verbal, frequent "rest periods" at home from work.  Don’t get me wrong, we don’t baby him, we just know that simple modifications help focus.  But not lately.  It is like he has grown out of modifications.  Do you get what I mean?

Have you tried discussing with him what his condition is? Also, if he is shown how learning can help him in the future, with an example of how he would benefit it might get him to see the big picture. Additionally, helping you son to schedule his days can help to keep him on a path of remembering, and prioritizing certain daily activites that need to be accomplished.  Placing the schedule in a place that is plain view (i.e. the frig, or on his door) will also help with accountability.  However, taking him out of sports may have an affect on his motivation.  If he has no serious physical outlet where he can see some form of progress, or strive towards a goal that he can reach physically, then he will have no motivation for those things that are more cerebral than physical, thusly he will not completely grasp complex concepts, unless he has a desire to do so. Just some thoughts from an old ADD’er

Response:

" A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested.  Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well.        Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least.   At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to.  It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".

And also, one shades into the other.  There’s the area where "I could do this if I threw every ounce of effort at it, but it isn’t important enough for that."" I find this a very interesting conversation because I have students on my caseload with ADHD and have observed this in a couple of them. Instead of calling them lazy (I am pretty sure that wouldn’t improve things — smile) I have told them — "Look, you have ADHD, and this is one of the things ADHD can do to you — it can keep you from getting interested in an assignment you have to do." This is particularly a problem in longer assignments, and my students will read and write about one topic for weeks at a time… So we are actively working together to find personal devices they can use to increase their interest in a necessary but uninteresting task.

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I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.

I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea.   Physical activity is very important for ADDers.  It helps them focus and burn off the stress of life.

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I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.

"I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea.   Physical activity is very important for ADDers.  It helps them focus and burn off the  stress of life." I absolutely agree.  I don’t know how I would have gotten through high school if I hadn’t been involved in sports.  I know that competitive athletics benefited me on several levels:  Besides being an excellent stress outlet and just plain healthy, it provided me with more confidence than anything probably has in my life yet.  Also, it allowed for some great social/friendship delvelopments.   Something else not to overlook is the discipline and the **structure** that comes with athletic training and being on a team.  THAT is definitely something that I lacked (but craved) in the rest of my life, but quickly embraced when it came to sports. megan

Response:

Hi EmmaAnne, My own personal experience would dictate that you keep your child in sports if at all possible. Of course this is only one person’s observation, but clearly my 17 yo son did much better in school while participating in football last fall.  At the conclusion of the season and for 2 full weeks, he didn’t turn in any homework what-so-ever.  Needless to say he dropped from an A-B student to a D-E(F) in a real short order. I always figured that sports were a real great thing for him (social, esteem and fitness), but I never witnessed such a clear direct relationship between sports and grades.  It just caught me off guard when the football season ended and he suddenly didn’t have that to kinda anchor his life. Hopefully you will have a better experience than I.  My general advice to ADD parents is to keep the kids busy!!! FWIW. Regards,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea.   Physical activity is very important for ADDers.  It helps them focus and burn off the stress of life.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested.  Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well.        Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least.   At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to.  It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".

And also, one shades into the other.  There’s the area where "I could do this if I threw every ounce of effort at it, but it isn’t important enough for that."

Response:

decided it would be nice to share this stuff with the rest of us: —-I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his —-teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when —-school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, —-participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he —-is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & —-pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him —-when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of —-things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out —-with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there. I have —-asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the —-lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he —-likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, —-my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what —-we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a —-day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though. Please if —-anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. —- —-If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely —-unmotivated as well.  I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int —-things I don’t like.  Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. —-Everything is, it seems.   My parents tried both threats and incentives, the reality is, I’m as stubborn as most Germans can be and the ADD helps me dig in even more This Kid is just being difficult, what else is going on at home? I kinda feel that you are telling me your kid is getting wet, and you forgot to tell me that he is standing in the rain, so I can’t be of much assistance. "Education is the Progressive Discovery of our own Ignorance" -Will Durant "People who read the Tabloids deserve to be lied to" —     Jerry Seinfeld "You don’t Know what you got ’till it’s Gone" —            Joni Mitchell "I’m Just a soul whose intentions are Good … " — Eric Burden

Response:

The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.

A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested.  Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well. — "Why do they call you the Warrior Princess?" "Ceasar was already taken" Xena: Warrior Princess

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely unmotivated as well.  I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int things I don’t like.  Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. Everything is, it seems.

Exactly!!!  My son gets behavior modification (leaway) and still nothing.

Response:

Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you

This is me again.  Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home.  He does his chores.  He loves animals.  He plays when his homework is done.  He is a normal 10 year old boy.  We thought he was depressed.  So we took him to psychiatrists.  They said he is not.  Which is good.  We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary.  We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help.  It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades. He does get punished when he does wrong.  But he doesn’t get spankings.

Only for the fact that he is getting older and talking about what needs to be done for punishment seems to make him think more about what he has done. As I have said before, he gets his medication [Dexedrine 10mg bid] and he seems to be ok for quieting down.  He just doesn’t have any motivation when not interested.  Behavior modifications include leneancy regarding writing [print not cursive], doing less written work more verbal, frequent "rest periods" at home from work.  Don’t get me wrong, we don’t baby him, we just know that simple modifications help focus.  But not lately.  It is like he has grown out of modifications.  Do you get what I mean?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First question–what treatment is he receiving? — — — John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely unmotivated as well.  I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int things I don’t like.  Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. Everything is, it seems.  

Response:

First question–what treatment is he receiving? — — — John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD.  He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so.  He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion.  The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.  Can someone help with ideas & pointers?  I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.  I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back.  I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc.  The motivation is not there.  I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons.  Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes.  So they really cannot do that.  None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year.  But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard.  I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit.  It may not help though.  Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you

Response:

Gee, for as second I thought I’d written all of this. Randor

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<A cheapo kitchen count down timer does wonder for me, 1. The impending doom of not getting my 1 or 2 minute task done before the darn thing starts beeping gives me a sense of immediate stress that I crave 2. The stress causes me to work in hyperactive overdrive, which I love. 3. It’s very useful in keeping me from going into Internet hyperfocus. Set it for 20 minutes and struggle to get your e-mail read.  Set it for 5 minutes and I’m less likely to open up 15 Washington Post or NY Times articles. 4. If I want to get off the computer no later than a certain time at night, I can set it for a longer term ‘fun’ time and still get to bed before dawn. Now where the hell did I last see it? Mujibar –Yep–a kitchen timer is one of the few things that works for me.  Even today when I did have lots of time to do stuff it was tough after about 2 hours to do much–I had finished all the fun stuff… oops! –It’s the working on boring stuff that is tough–the problem is that working on papers actually takes organized thought–and that tends to get strenuous–the researching it and performing the experiments are fun and lots of variety–organizing it into a paper is BORING… –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV

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<< –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV

_______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo                   \  - –  //

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo                   \  - –  //

Depends how you use it I suppose

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : The other is lock yourself in a room with some food and access to a : bathroom and *nothing else to do* and work like a maniac for eight hours : or so.  I have only done this once or twice in my life, for obvious : reasons, but it works amazingly well for true emergencies. : I’m trying to get two years worth of incompleates in philosophy classes done : over this summer so I can graduate.  I leave the house maybe twice a week. : I’ve been putting in 12-14 hours a day.  I have tons of stuff to reread, : and I’ve always been a slow reader.  I’m making headway though.  I try and : keep the modem unplugged or start some huge download so I can’t use the net : while I’m working. To your list of bathroom access and food, I add a tin of : the strongest pipe tobacco I can stand (Dunhill Nightcap works nicely), dr God i miss smoking sometimes. Ever tried Gitanes (from France)? The nicotine rush is enough to blow one’s head off. Three puffs and i’m ready to pass out.

I lived in France for a number of years in the 60s.  I smoked Gauloises, Gitanes and Gitanes Papier Ma

Question:

stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

grrrrrrr. sounds really frustrating. ~  sorry that you’re feeling so hopeless. hope you feel better soon.   e – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy — You think you are innocent if you say, ‘I love this woman and I want to act in accordance with my love,’ but you are beginning the revolution… You will be driven back: to claim the right to a human act is to attack the forces responsible for all the misery in the world.  - Paul Nizan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when)

I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.    I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy

I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes.   take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

p.s.  maybe it is boo.net?  I can’t remember trill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill stupid stupid isp which has been sold and bought by so many companies it is now something like SBC yahOO prOdigy flash stupid stupid stupid dot com dot net dot dot dot… :p—– every new sale means the service gets worse, the subscriber base gets huger, and the download time is longer. and we gots an old slow modem so we are at the back of the dl line anyway. now it is deleting messages from the ng after only two days even tho my preferences have always been set for keeping messages for a couple months which is longer than they actually ever last but at least i had time to pretend i was gonna read more than i did. now they just go poof and i have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the ng in order to pick up older posts. i don’t even bother to change isp’s cause i see this isp selling stuff going on all over the place and i have no reason to believe that wherever i might take my business won’t suddenly become AOsmell while we’re sleeping and at least i know i hate this isp. i loved it when it was just the flash company. what a great name and it was a good service and all. (thanks to linda of 3creus for the recommendation way back when) I have increased in number eh….?  *grins* I’m just sorry they sold out.  So many good companies go that way and become crummy larger companies and innovation and good service&products become stagnation&bloatware.  Look what happened to companies like Bungie after microsnot bought them out.  I wish I could tell you of a local isp in your area like I could here or when I lived in NH.  Those were better and a much smaller user base and different phone lines or they use different switching stations than the biggies do.  There must be something where you are but I don’t know how to find them from here.  The numbers they use to connect is key though.  If you can find one that doesn’t use the same ones as AOL, earthlink and whoever else is big nowadays.  I noticed my local isp was using the same numbers to connect as earthlink was when I had that, so I dumped them and got a different one with three sets of numbers from three providers. I’ll paste in some urls to check maybe if you still are up to it. http://www.ispfinder.com/ http://thelist.internet.com/ if you can swing DSL: http://www.dslreports.com/ so just kvetching and being hopeless cause that is how i am feeling tonite and maybe it’s better to moan about the stupid isp instead of the more ugly hopelessness that is climbing inside of us. goodnight and hello, betsy I hope that hopelessness climbs right on out of there.  I have to keep shining the searchlite into the darker recesses from time to time to make sure they aren’t hiding anywhere too.  I can’t say the effexor is helping that though.  I think I’ll be changing sometime to something else or not at all.  maybe we can keep shining the lite at each other sometimes. take care betsy linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

boo.com has been recommended to me by several people.  it is local and apparently small, careful, and resistant to the biggies and their buying, re-morgaging games. trill hey, linda, howya doin?  We don’t hear much from you, lately.  But, we think of you, fondly, from time to time.     still trill

hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.  doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.  I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* ducks flying rainbow jello.   I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.   linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi linda,

<snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy.

I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet.

Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.

    Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign.  In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with.

oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.

    That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk*

Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello.

I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW.

I noticed.  Okay by me. trill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves< betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.  I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.  asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed, I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life. ducks flying rainbow jello. I like the double entendre of your grammar just above.  I see ducks soaring through rainbow jello.  I see ducks made of rainbow jello.  I see ducks launching rainbow jello offa catapaults and rocket pads.  And I see you ducking the rainbow jello that flies. I’ve always been one to posts a whole sh*tload and then go quiet for a while.  that’s just me. FWIW. I noticed.  Okay by me. trill linda — I just wish I had put in a door when I built my wall.

Response:

Hi trill and J/c, Hey trill We’s here….. Work and gran’pa-ing has been taking their toll on us.. We’s not suffering. mind you(but that’s to be explained in our response to 14’s question)  (waves 14) but we have been enduring quite a bit of pain and discomfort Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle<

hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)  I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.  I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.   We got a few responses on the go(but jeese a decent post takes us at least 2 hrs sitting at the keyboard)  moan< I think Beauty would be watching her SO doing his folk dancing in Croatia right about now… mags and the others ,,,I don’t know! We.ve been having trouble picking up mags posts… Been seeing responses to hir but sometimes her post doesn’t show up for a week… been really confusing!! You and me both find usenet intimidating  brrr I wouldn’t even think of venturing around outside of asd… I think you are very brave Linda  waves<

<waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out.   getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it.   I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there.   Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too.   so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. I hope everyone who’s down right now with some flu or something else, is feeling  a little better. betsy…. grrr sorry to hear about your isp… we’re dealing with the same thing up here… all of the dial-ups have been bought out by the corporate telephone monopoly… grrr And they want everybody to switch to DSL It’s even cheaper than dial-up… but you need a pentium to run it… grrr

I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that.   I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy.   For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter.. Hope to get an email out to you soon.. If not in time .. Hope you enjoy your Canada Day long weekend! Now hope I can finish that other post… whew J/c. Hi linda, <snip I’m between and below hi trill, I’m doing ok, thanks.  Hope all is well with you also.  I post very little when I’m limited on time or energy. I get that.  Like I’ve vanished from time to time, especially recently during my move. doesn’t mean I don’t think often of my friends all over usenet. Wow.  I could never go all over usenet.  I’m glad you’ve got friends in so many places. I try to catch up when I can but lately, between effexor side effects and worries, it’s been sporatic at best.     Having just come off of my first and so far only round with any antidepressant, I’m still pretty much of the mindset that the "side" effects outweigh the "intended" or hoped-for effects.  Though I experienced the intended ones for a hot second, the negative ones lasted much longer and grew in number and intensity rather than diminishing as I was promised by the mh pros.  Other friends of mine have told me that they do not accept the theory that the "side" effects stop.  Rather, someone put it, one adjust hirself to the side effects by changing diet and sleeping habits to accomodate them.     I don’t know anything for sure, except that after awhile the intended effects stopped for me and I was only left with exhaustion, increased numbers and intensity of migraines, and virtually destroyed appetite.  As for the famous l*b*do effects, well, I don’t even consider those worth mentioning.  I went into the game not caring what became of mine.  It seems cumbersome and irritating when it is around, anyway.     Withdrawal was extremely intense for me, convincing me that the concept of this class of drugs not being addictive is a semantics game and rhetorical manipulation design by the big pharm as a marketing campaign. In fact, while researching the withdrawal symptoms of coming offa c*lxa, I learned that the reason that drug became so popular so quickly is that it was way more heavily marketed by the big pharm than any other a-d ever before, the line being that it is the most specific ssri, having little to no effect on other neurotransmitters than seratonin, and therefore having the least amt of side effects.  But, when it all came out in the wash of mass distribution and use, it turned out to have pretty much the same side effects at the same rate as all the other SSRIs.  So…     So, good luck.  I hope effexor works well for you with little disturbance.

I think I’m coming to a similar conclusion now.  I’ve been on just about all of them and my response is one of either more depressed than before or it does nothing after an intital upswing.  Like I get aclimated to it or something.  I think most my depression is situational and until that improves, then that will also…eventually.  I haven’t given up on finding a T that can help me.  I just know now that the VA isn’t going to help me find one.  Maybe I can find one later if my SSI goes thru or my VA claim for stuff that happened while in the navy.  then I’ll start looking around.  I wanted to give this med a chance since this is a new PDoc (to me) and he’s supposed to be real helpful for us getting assistance.  He is less likely to play the insurance game.  But they still like their medications.  He’s seen my chart though and knows all the meds I’ve already been on.   I’m not a moderator anymore on asarm but you’ll probably see me there more often just because I’m used to it and it’s easy to keep up with. oh well.  The idea of trying to join another ng for any reason in the whole wide world terrifies me.  You have no idea, but it took mos. of encouragement and gentle proddings by my t and a friend before I even made an attempt to find asd.  Then it took mos of lurking before I even made an attempt to figure out how to get to post here with relative anonymity.     While I sometimes go overboard with posting here, I don’t think anyone will every find me posting at any other ng. Anyway, I’m glad to see you when I do.

well, that’s cool too.  sometimes I like it here better.  It depends, like   you say, on what I am needing at the time.  Sometimes one is just not enough and the posts seem too…um…nice.  sometimes I need to talk about things that aren’t so nice and politically correct.  or maybe get feedback from some others who may tell me something I may not want to hear but need to hear.  if that makes any sense.   Other times, that is just about all I can handle and I can’t do confrontations much at all anytime.    asd get’s a lot more posts and I get overwhelmed easy.     That happens to me, too.  You have no idea how much more of this ng I mark as read without that being the case than I actually read.  No offense to anyone.  It is _mostly_ indiscriminate and based only on MY time and mood, but it is mostly not read.  Therefore, besides getting overwhelmed,

yeah, I do that too.  not because I am trying to exclude anyone but more like I just can’t "split" my mind into that many area’s at once.  I tend to be more mono.   I also often get confused.     For instance:  Where’s Beauty and J/c and mags and halina and dyenths, to name a few whom I haven’t seen around for a bit, whom I was used to seeing lots of at different times.  Perhaps they each gave some sort of notice that I missed.  Oh well.  Guess I blew it.  Jill’s degree (suggestion…grin) is followed more closely here.  *smirk* Sorry.  Sometimes I get carried away.  It’s true.  Soemtimes reading and writing here are my great dissociative escape from the difficulties of my life.     Lately I’ve encountered mnay difficulties in my life.

why are you … read more »

Response:

Hey linda Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :))

Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!! most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-)

Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!! We do have gr*ve concerns!<<<

 I wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again.

Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there! I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing.

Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings? <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still.

OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery! As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve.

Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o( <snip I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here.

Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens! Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey linda Hi J/c Also been dealing one gawd awful *cold*   sniffle< hope your cold is doing a bit better.  zinc and vit C is my prescription and lots of clear liquids.  :)) Yes thanx….. thanx also for indirectly prompting us to re-evaluate our fruit consumption!!  wink< Yes.. we did go and get a couple of orangesand shared some of the granddaughter’s watermelon! I think it helped!!

Good!  Watermelon has more Vit. C than oranges.  I found that tidbit out in nursing school.  it was a trick question that we all got wrong. most grand’pa’s like the duties all too well, in my experience.  ;-) Yup.. Sadly though an unfortunate situation has arisen at her home, and it appears that grandpa’ing is going to be a very full time experience this summer!!!!

Sorry to hear that her situation is like that.  I know you’ll be the best gramps though.   It can get wearing on you though.  I hope you can take some time for you too.  I know what it feels like to feel overwhelmed and guilty about needing time for myself in order to be more understanding when I’m around others. i wasn’t real crazy about my inlaws but there were times when I wished someone was around to help me.  I was in the service and then we moved up to NH and again, no foo around on either side, again. Sorry linda!!  I know how that is!!!   ( We did it alone too! Not something I could do to my kid though! If she needs me I am there!

same here.  I just needed space from the inlaws and my foo.  my son is a whole different ballgame.  I do wish I could still get some respite though but it isn’t covered in this state evidently.  my so can’t deal with him very much at all.  no patience nor the desire to try to understand it seems sometimes.  that is disturbing me a great deal right now. I’m used to it now and the "little" one is 20 and at least 5′10 and still growing. Very Big Grin How is he getting along in the new surroundings?

he stays in his room most the time except for appointments, meals and the occasional excusion to the mall or fireworks.  stuff like that.  He just can’t wait to get back to his computer, though and is very sullen and unsociable.  I’m hoping to find a youth group he’d consider trying.  He was in one in NH (ch*rch) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you are very brave Linda  waves< <waves  nice to hear from ya.  I’ve started out on asarm and branched out. getting 2-c-reus now… I’m not brave at all though, J/c.  I have to clarify that.  Someone on asarm said I was too and I have to clear up that misconception.  I think if someone is brave, they do something [positive] knowing the consequences may be negative and they do it anyway.  I often do things without even caring enough to check into what may happen and there is a "what the h*ll" attached to it.  Kind of a resigned feeling of "it’s only me anyway" thing behind it. I know that isn’t the best way to think but we’re working on that one…still. OK  we can accept that you don’t feel that this is bravery! ) but…but…. to us.. the thought of it is real sceery!

ok, I can accept that may be how it’s perceived by others.  thanks for the compliment.  I just hope I didn’t make a mistake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as posting on various groups goes…well…that depends on what someone has to loose.  If a person has others to watch out for and may suffer a great deal if they were located…the consequences become very high.  For me, there is no real consequences that I give a damn about.  My foo is all drunk, drugged out, d*ad or elsewhere and I doubt they’d even bother to find out where I wound up.  They never did when I was right there. Other perps are either d*ad or some stranger. I am unemployed so there’s no boss to search for me and I guess I have a pretty lousy attitude about bosses too. so I guess I rambled on too much about a simple polite statement.  sorry. I don’t like to let myself take credit for something I don’t deserve. Will you let youself take credit for "a very good rant"! ;o) Sorry that you had to have so many crappy people in your life linda!  :o(

grins, ok, I guess I can do that.  thanks J/c. there are lots of good people online and off to make up for the few from before. I thought you had gotten a newer one.  you were using the one you built before.  Not sure why I thought that. I wonder how that translates into Mac requirements?  power pc 604 or G-3? not sure what you have betsy. For us, cable was do-able since we paid for it anyway and we got in on a starter deal for new hookups when the finished installing the lines out here. Oh… we’ve upgraded pretty much everything except the Y2K handicapped 486 motherboard.. groan.. Looks like it will be quite a while before that happens!

I wish I could send you something.  Keep watching the papers and flyers.  we see used pc’s and parts fairly cheap all the time in the little local "nickel" paper. (all want ads) Good to hear from you linda! How’s the weather down there? Warm thoughts J/c

the weather is unbearably hot here.  and dry.  fire alerts all over.   it’s going to be around 110 next week  ick. enjoy your cool weather. linda — –~~There’s a difference between KNOWING the path…and WALKING the path~~

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Question:

Hi all. I’ve been on Paxil for 3.5 years, and, after considering it for a while, recently decided I needed to get off it and switch to something else. The difficulties I was having with the drug were starting to outweigh the benefits, and it hasn’t addressed several of my most distressing  depression symptoms at all. Unfortunately, I’ve been experiencing some rather nasty withdrawal symptoms. At times I’ve felt like I am going through a rather severe depression relapse, and my already annoying problems with mental confusion and lack of concentration have multiplied. I now find it difficult to speak to anyone, since I often totally forget what I was talking about. Driving has even gotten difficult, since I sometimes blank out in the middle if a trip. I lose my temper if someone looks at me wrong, and I cry at the slightest provocation. My doc explained to me that I wasn’t losing it, or on my way back to the psych ward, but experiencing Paxil withdrawal. He put me on 20mg of Prozac, to help alleviate the symptoms, but they’re still effecting me badly. I was even forced to take a couple of weeks off from work. Anyone have any suggestions to help me get through this? Also, I’m still not sure where to go from here. My doc has said we’ll discuss options at my next visit, and I’ve done a lot of research on my own, but I’m still not sure what to do. Some of the options include, switching to Effexor, staying with the Prozac, or going to a different SSRI like Celexa. My main concerns are finding something that will help me think more clearly and concentrate better in addition to keeping up my desire to stay alive, and won’t cause me to gain any more weight. Any ideas and suggestions would be appreciated. Joanne

Response:

Paxil withdrawal support site http://members.tripod.lycos.com/fstreicher/ good luck and best wishes Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. I’ve been on Paxil for 3.5 years, and, after considering it for a while, recently decided I needed to get off it and switch to something else. The difficulties I was having with the drug were starting to outweigh the benefits, and it hasn’t addressed several of my most distressing depression symptoms at all. Unfortunately, I’ve been experiencing some rather nasty withdrawal symptoms. At times I’ve felt like I am going through a rather severe depression relapse, and my already annoying problems with mental confusion and lack of concentration have multiplied. I now find it difficult to speak to anyone, since I often totally forget what I was talking about. Driving has even gotten difficult, since I sometimes blank out in the middle if a trip. I lose my temper if someone looks at me wrong, and I cry at the slightest provocation. My doc explained to me that I wasn’t losing it, or on my way back to the psych ward, but experiencing Paxil withdrawal. He put me on 20mg of Prozac, to help alleviate the symptoms, but they’re still effecting me badly. I was even forced to take a couple of weeks off from work. Anyone have any suggestions to help me get through this? Also, I’m still not sure where to go from here. My doc has said we’ll discuss options at my next visit, and I’ve done a lot of research on my own, but I’m still not sure what to do. Some of the options include, switching to Effexor, staying with the Prozac, or going to a different SSRI like Celexa. My main concerns are finding something that will help me think more clearly and concentrate better in addition to keeping up my desire to stay alive, and won’t cause me to gain any more weight. Any ideas and suggestions would be appreciated. Joanne

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

its hard to tell which drug is doing what when you make a slide type conversion like this-but chances are its the washout of paxil-give it some time another week to adjust. LM

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what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

These could very well be Paxil withdrawal symptoms (which are often described as such) in combination with initial Effexor side effects. It will be a temporary inconvenience hopefully as Effexor will have taken over soon. Philip

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what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

Quite a few people who are weaning off paxil or quit paxil cold turkey complain of those *shock* like feelings in their body. They are not dangerous and it will pass with time. The spacy feeling could be caused by paxil withdrawals and/or weaning on effexor. Again this should pass with time. Take care. Jackie ~~I can’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m frightened of the old ones~~

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I wonder if it’s the effexor. I am getting electric shocks through my body after I’ve been upped to 150 mg. This shocks start a panic attack. I’ve taken more ativan than I can count lately, and I try to stay away from it. Wanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

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My therapist put me on paxil and it scared me and I stopped taking it because it made me feel like I was loosing control of my muscles, especially in the jaw area.  I was not taking it long enough to really notice any side affects after stopping.  But what has been a big help to me is when I get my anxiety attacks I take hydroxizine.  It makes you pretty drowsy but it takes the edge of the really long anxiety attacks and doesnt make you feel as jittery.  Hang in there and you will find something that works for you.

Response:

what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

Response:

Question:

Hi Everyone, I haven’t posted here before- I’m hoping to find someone here who understands what I’m going through.  I am dealing with the trauma of being sexually abused by my ex-husband and started having flashbacks about a month ago.  It’s been a year since we divorced but I just began to acknowledge that what he did to me was sexual abuse last October.  I think I repressed a lot of the memories because they were too painful to confront.  I was raped on numerous occasions throughout our relationship but at the time didn’t want to acknowledge that rape could happen between married people.  Most of the information I find on sexual abuse is about children who have been abused, which is a horrible thing for any child to have to go through, but I feel alone in that my sexual abuse happened in my adulthood and with the person who said he loved me.   I started taking Zoloft recently for depression and PTSD- supposedly Zoloft has been approved to treat PTSD and the anxiety and stress related to it.  It seems to be helping and I haven’t had any flashbacks since being on it but I’m getting headaches and feeling fatigued most of the time.  Does anyone else taking Zoloft have these side effects?  Just curious. Thanks for reading! Amy

Response:

Amy, Welcome to the ng.  You experiences are not uncommon and although many of us may have experienced differing traumas – the way we react, the symptoms of PTSD are usually extremely similar. It is good that you are getting help now.  The sooner people are treated after the trauma, the chance that the severity of your symptoms can be lessened.  Keep it up – therapy and medications are our most useful tools right now. Medications are often a trial and error process too.  Side effects such as headaches and fatigue may lessen with time.  Most SSRIs like Zoloft need 6 to 8 weeks to become fully effective. If side effects are still present and hard to deal with after 2-3 months, it might be an idea to try another one.  Effexor has also been found to be effective against PTSD.  I’ve taken Prozac, Effexor and am now on Wellbutrin and find they all help to differing degrees.  I changed from Prozac to Effexor because of persistant headaches, then changed to Wellbutrin because of I couldn’t control my weight on the other two.  It takes time but the end result is worth it. There are some good websites with alot of information on PTSD and medications: http://www.trauma-pages.com/index.phtml http://www.ptsd.com/ http://www.mentalhealth.com/ Feel free to ask any questions and take care! Lesleyanne Visit my homepage at http://home.thezone.net/~chech * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi Lesleyanne, Thanks for replying to my post.  So how does PTSD affect you?  For me, the flashbacks can be brief recollections or I can actually feel like the trauma is reoccurring- kind of a suspension of reality if you know what I mean.  I also deal with this low-level ongoing sense of anxiety. So it actually helps to deal with the trauma sooner rather than waiting? Sometimes I wonder if it’s worth pursuing the trauma- if one can actually reach some kind of resolve.  I’m hoping so. Thanks for the info on the medications.  It helps. Take Care, Amy

Response:

Amy, It is important to deal with the trauma in your therapy.  You need to understand how your condition has progressed from the trauma to your current symptoms.  It helps your mind come to terms with how it has affected you.  A good therapist can help with this while medication helps the symptoms. Dealing with the trauma as quickly as possible after the trauma has ended is key – you can see how this idea is practiced after the school shootings in the states where counsellors are brought in immediately and the students are encouraged to talk about their feelings.  In such cases, followups are imperative so as to intervene if symptoms begin to show. If this had happened for me I have no doubt that I would be in much better shape.  I even saw a psychiatrist after I returned from Bosnia in 94, but he treated me as if I was a trouble maker and indicated that if I didn’t stop, my career would be in jeopardy.  This was all too common practice in the canadian forces up to recently when they initiated a host of programs to prevent and treat PTSD in veterans.  Too late for me and alot of other people….which is what forced them to act. Right now, most of my symptoms are kept in check with medication – wellbutrin and imovane (for sleep).  I don’t work and am waiting for my release from the armed forces.  That in itself I believe will be a great relief for me.  I can’t wait. Take Care Lesleyanne Visit my homepage at http://home.thezone.net/~chech * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

On 04 Mar 2000 22:26:26 GMT, swissc…@aol.com (SwissChsy) wrote: Hi Amy,

Most of the information I find on sexual abuse is about children who have been abused, which is a horrible thing for any child to have to go through, but I feel alone in that my sexual abuse happened in my adulthood and with the person who said he loved me.  

People here have PTSD from many different types of traumas, but I think that quite often folks can still relate to each other, because they have been through some very difficult experiences or are living with the symptoms of PTSD. You might be able to find some articles, resources, etc, out there however, which do address your own trauma more specifically. I would try looking around on some of the PTSD-related websites out there, including: http://www.trauma-pages.com/index.phtml I hope that helps. Perhaps it might also be worthwhile finding out if there are any active groups/organisations in the area for women who have been through an abusive relationship, as they might be able to offer you support, or to put you in touch with other women who have survived a similar situation…? Just a thought anyway. Either way, welcome to the newsgroup.  :^) Mae Tang (replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address) The Scampering Rat Page http://www.nu-it.demon.co.uk/scamp/

Response:

Hi Amy, I just wanted to let you know that you aren’t alone…. I too was sexually (physically and mentally) abused by my ex. as an adult. When you wrote "with the person who said he loved me" it really hit home for me. I believe my ex really thought he loved me… but his idea or definition of love is a hell of a lot different then mine. It makes me so angry when I hear people deny that rape occurs between husband and wife, I am not referring to your self denial that events happened to you… that I understand, but rape is rape no matter how the rapist is related to the victim. I hope you improve with your side affects from the medication and I wish you the best, Patricia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I haven’t posted here before- I’m hoping to find someone here who understands what I’m going through.  I am dealing with the trauma of being sexually abused by my ex-husband and started having flashbacks about a month ago.  It’s been a year since we divorced but I just began to acknowledge that what he did to me was sexual abuse last October.  I think I repressed a lot of the memories because they were too painful to confront.  I was raped on numerous occasions throughout our relationship but at the time didn’t want to acknowledge that rape could happen between married people.  Most of the information I find on sexual abuse is about children who have been abused, which is a horrible thing for any child to have to go through, but I feel alone in that my sexual abuse happened in my adulthood and with the person who said he loved me. I started taking Zoloft recently for depression and PTSD- supposedly Zoloft has been approved to treat PTSD and the anxiety and stress related to it.  It seems to be helping and I haven’t had any flashbacks since being on it but I’m getting headaches and feeling fatigued most of the time.  Does anyone else taking Zoloft have these side effects?  Just curious. Thanks for reading! Amy

___________________________________________________________________________ ___ Total Internet privacy — get your Freedom pseudonym at http://www.freedom.net

Response:

Amy, everyone, I am sorry for the offensive language in my previous message. This is the first time my anger got the better of me and I should have waited until I cooled down a bit. It won’t happen again. Patricia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Everyone, I haven’t posted here before- I’m hoping to find someone here who understands what I’m going through.  I am dealing with the trauma of being sexually abused by my ex-husband and started having flashbacks about a month ago.  It’s been a year since we divorced but I just began to acknowledge that what he did to me was sexual abuse last October.  I think I repressed a lot of the memories because they were too painful to confront.  I was raped on numerous occasions throughout our relationship but at the time didn’t want to acknowledge that rape could happen between married people.  Most of the information I find on sexual abuse is about children who have been abused, which is a horrible thing for any child to have to go through, but I feel alone in that my sexual abuse happened in my adulthood and with the person who said he loved me. I started taking Zoloft recently for depression and PTSD- supposedly Zoloft has been approved to treat PTSD and the anxiety and stress related to it.  It seems to be helping and I haven’t had any flashbacks since being on it but I’m getting headaches and feeling fatigued most of the time.  Does anyone else taking Zoloft have these side effects?  Just curious. Thanks for reading! Amy

___________________________________________________________________________ ___ Total Internet privacy — get your Freedom pseudonym at http://www.freedom.net

Response:

Amy Your post was in no way offensive.  Actually I believe some swearing when you want to vent is not out of the rhelm of the reasonable.  For some reason, some of these words help relieve some of the tension. For my part, I started swearing in French after 4 years in Quebec, so when I returned to an english environment I could swear all I wanted and no one had a clue what I was saying – but it felt just as good. Lesleyanne Visit my homepage at http://home.thezone.net/~chech * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi Lesleyanne, Actually Patricia was the one who wrote the e-mail she apologized for.  I agree with you- I wasn’t offended by what she said- anger is a normal response to being abused, if anger comes out, so be it.  Letting it out helps to heal, keeping it in eats away at a person. Thanks, Amy

Response:

oops, sorry…..i’ve been having brain farts all week.  I still think it’s Friday. Tabernaque!!! Lesleyanne Visit my homepage at http://home.thezone.net/~chech * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know the efficacy of effexor for the new DMS category: Bipolar 2. Also, I see a lot of posts here about effexor withdrawal. If effexor is such a great drug, why are so many people coming off it all the time–are they going drug-free or are they looking for something better? Michael

I came off it because, for me, it didn’t work.  It had bad side effects for me, insomnia, strange dreams, elevated blood pressure.  I was fortunate that I had no trouble getting off it.  Others have had success with it, and also problems stopping. Charles

Response:

Does anyone know the efficacy of effexor for the new DMS category: Bipolar 2. Also, I see a lot of posts here about effexor withdrawal. If effexor is such a great drug, why are so many people coming off it all the time–are they going drug-free or are they looking for something better? Michael

Response:

Question:

Doda1207 schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.  Hope this helps, take care,  Dody

  All SSRI’s (and Zoloft belongs to this group as do Paxil and Prozac) will worsen your symptoms during the first 2-8 weeks. To assess if this is really the med for you or not the best thing to do is to wait a few weeks. I know what it’s like, believe me. But it does take a while for these meds to kick in. You might ask your doctor for a benzo on the soide as this softens the side effects of the first weeks. Xanax and Ativan come to mind, which are fast-working meds with a very short half-life. A combo of SSRI and benzo for maintenance is quite common these days as well. Don’t give up too quickly…(I know how hard this can be) Philip Peters

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. (It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.

It is not uncommon to have exagerrated anxiety while adjusting to an SRI.  I would recommend calling your doc and asking for something to help while you adjust.  It takes weeks before one can assess if Zoloft is right or wrong for you.  When I started Paxil I had attacks too. That ended after a few weeks.  I couldn’t possibly have made a decision after 4 days. Gwen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. (It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor. It is not uncommon to have exagerrated anxiety while adjusting to an SRI.  I would recommend calling your doc and asking for something to help while you adjust.  It takes weeks before one can assess if Zoloft is right or wrong for you.  When I started Paxil I had attacks too. That ended after a few weeks.  I couldn’t possibly have made a decision after 4 days. Gwen

Nothing snipped so as to cause no annoyance Steve replied: I have tried Prozac, Effexor and Zoloft.  All were a nightmare for me (ME, Steve) I can speak for no one else.  The dreaded ‘benzos’ seem to work for me.  Good luck,  Steve Treloar

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Zoloft did this to me too. I just dealt with it (a little xanex helped) and eventually, it passed. Scary stuff though…                               cathy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

Many people here (including myself) have experienced that starting an SRI such as Zoloft will actually increase panic in the early going. For most, this side effect will wear off in a few weeks.  There are a couple of ways to get around it.  One way is to start on a very low dose of Zoloft, and gradually increase the dose until you reach a therapeutic level (possibly taking several months to do it).  This low start and slow increase eliminates most of the side effects.  Another way to reduce side effects is to take a benzo on a temporary basis, until you are established on the Zoloft.  The benzo can help control the anxiety produced by the medication.  Do talk to your doctor about this, as increased anxiety is a common early side effect of SRIs, and there are ways to get around the problem.   Best wishes, Hirsch address in header has been changed to avoid junk mail. To reach me by email, substitute erols for nospam in my reply-to address.

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

I’m terribly sorry to read this but, if it’s any consolation, it isn’t at all uncommon – indeed, Zoloft did that to me, too. All the SSRIs seem capable of causing increased anxiety when first started and to counter this some doctors start patients at very low doses, slowly increasing them till the desired effect is achieved. Some also prescribe anxiolytics (typically benzodiazepines) to offset this side effect. If it’s very bad, I’d really recommend you talk to your doctor about it. Hope that’s some help – good luck! — Gary Cooper

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.  Hope this helps, take care,  Dody

Response:

the two most common benzodiazapines (that I come across in reading posts) used to bridge the adjustment period to a SSRI  are Xanax or Klonopin I was given klonopin to get over the adjustment to paxil.

+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Doda1207 schreef: +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4-I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic +AD4APg- +AD4-disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a +AD4APg- +AD4-really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly +AD4APg- +AD4-woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. +AD4APg- +AD4-I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, +AD4APg- +AD4-I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a +AD4APg- +AD4-panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified +AD4APg- +AD4-about +AD4APg- +AD4-going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never +AD4APg- +AD4-two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic +AD4APg- +AD4-(chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems +AD4APg- +AD4-wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more +AD4APg- +AD4-panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? +AD4APg- +AD4-Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? +AD4APg- +AD4APg- If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar +AD4APg- reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it +AD4APg- is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more +AD4APg- success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side +AD4APg- effects, so talk to your doctor. +AD4APg-  Hope this helps, take care, +AD4APg-  Dody +AD4- +AD4-  All SSRI’s (and Zoloft belongs to this group as do Paxil and Prozac) will worsen +AD4-your symptoms during the first 2-8 weeks. To assess if this is really the med for +AD4-you or not the best thing to do is to wait a few weeks. I know what it’s like, +AD4-believe me. But it does take a while for these meds to kick in. You might ask your +AD4-doctor for a benzo on the soide as this softens the side effects of the first +AD4-weeks. Xanax and Ativan come to mind, which are fast-working meds with a very +AD4-short half-life. A combo of SSRI and benzo for maintenance is quite common these +AD4-days as well. Don’t give up too quickly…(I know how hard this can be) +AD4- +AD4-Philip Peters +AD4-

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a

really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly

woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body.

I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a

panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about

going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic

(chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems

wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more

panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me?

Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?   Hi,   From what I hear (I can’t remember myself) Many times when you start on an antidepressant, your symtoms can become worse at first.  It is always a good idea to give a new med a couple of weeks, for the medication to build up in your system and let the side effects die down.  Unless of course the side effects are really bad, in that case I would immediately talk to your doctor. Hope that helps. Lee "Life is too important to be taken seriously"

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks

Very common for SRI’s to increase anxiety (even to the point of panic) in the first few weeks.  You might want to talk to your doc about adding or increasing a benzo til your body adjusts.  I don’t take Zoloft – but had a heck of a time adjusting to Paxil. Gwen

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

Response: