Question:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Some power antennas can be repaired. Many have a slender toothed rod or strip inside. The motor catches the teeth in the strip and runs the antenna up and down. You may be able to build one good antenna from the two.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike

I just went through this with my girlfriends Buick.  Autozone listed a power antenna direct replacement for this one for about $50. NAPA had an adaptor which allows ordinary antennae to be installed and connected to the unusual power antenna connector.  I used the ordinary antenna. NAPA also had the mast repair kits to fix the old units.

Response:

There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

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Response:

Well, The dealer doesn’t stock the mast repair kits anymore, and all they have is a "universal" kit as well. $220!! What a pain. I’ll try NAPA tomorrow and see if they have anything. Most auto parts places around here just have the universal fits. Hopefully NAPA has a *repair* kit. Thanks for all the replies, Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.)

In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

These units are probably the same thru several years if you can find one from a wrecked 79-83 Caddie or any GM car for that matter that used the power unit. Roy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I’m a used auto dealer and these things are a real pain.  I have gone to the junk yard and removed a manual mast antenna from a GM car and installed it in place of the power one.  If you are careful you can get one that mounts up nearly exactly to the original and your problems are over.  Usually on late model Caddys I do replace the entire assembly though…just because it’s a Caddy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Hey thanks! They have a few in stock. All I gotta do is wait till payday and see how much shipping costs to Canada. The dealers around here can’t get them anymore. Daniel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I had similar problem in my ‘87 DeVille.  The fix is more of a PITA than I care for, so my solution was to extend the antenna and pull the fuse….. Watching the antenna go up/down was as impressive as it use to be anyway….LOL Cheap ‘fix’…. Dave S

Response:

Question:

yes, but if the poster is right that the buildup is basically caused by static electricity, then I’ll just wash the Aerochamber every day with some dishwashing liquid.  Why take chances.  It’s not that big an effort to keep it clean.  I was just curious.

Considering the quality of many of its posts, I would strongly suggest you look for a more reliable reference. Ted

Response:

Ted

Question:

Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

Oh YES! I think it comes after years of having hope built up and then shattered. I also worry that the doctors are as frustrated with me as *I* am. I worry they will send me to psychiatry. ((((((Elahn One))))))) Debbie <<

Response:

Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

Response:

Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

Response:

Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations.   Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Red: I really feel for you.  So sorry you’re having to go through all this. Doctors can be such jerks at times. A necessary evil.  I think they get insecure when we know more than they do. I will say a special prayer for you tonight. Take Care. Love, Caroline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations. Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Many a patient is better informed and actually smarter than their doctor(s). They’re probably afraid of being manipulated on some level.

Response:

One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway.  Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

I went to the ER once for a migraine cause it was the worst one I’ve ever had.  They gave me my first Imitrex injection.  I couldn’t take anything else because of the vomiting.  It was horrible.  Riding in the car, motion sickness added to the nausea.  Then when I got to the brightly lit hospital, there were babies crying…loud.  I was filling out paperwork FIRST before I could see the doc and I had to leave in the middle of the paperwork to go puke for the 3rd time!  Then I had to go back and finish the paperwork and I finally saw a doctor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway. Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

Question:

Hello is something happening in here Pleased request my question

Response:

recently replied to a question from Dawn Waker who was hoping to power a Macintosh Notebook from a 12VDC electrical system. George Schemm stated that 2 LM317T adjustable voltage regulators parralleled together could be used to supply 7.5 volts at 2 amps from the 12vdc supply. I am interested in building the same circuit but have not been able to find out how the LM317T should be wired up.  I have tried Radiospares but they do not have a Data sheet on this integrated circuit. than one pound sterling each this must be a very cost effective solution to the problem. I expect that the circuit will be very simple and will require few components. Any assistance with such a circuit would be greatly appreciated. — Barry Harvey

Response:

My friedn (we both have asthma) has been struggling along for some time with both inhaled & oral steroids.  Her GP (we live in the UK) has started her with Singulair and she is at present (touch wood etc.) off the oral stuff, which has to be better for her than previously.  She has been on it a couple of weeks, though I don’t know how long her response took.  Singulair has only arrived in the UK since last time I saw my GP so I can’t currently have any personal experience. We wait to see her long-term outlook on Singulair. Note the posts saying that some people have no response at all to Singulair & Accolate. writes Hi, Hope newcomers are welcome. I have just discovered this ng. I have had asthma for a long time and recently my internist put me on Accolate. I am interested to hear from others on this medication and their response to it. Has it been effective? How long did it take to help? Also, has anyone been on Allergra? Has it helped? Thanks. Peace,                nyteowl

– Surfer! http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk/flash Hopeful anti-spam: alter double ‘w’ to single ‘w’ to view site & send Email.

Response:

Hi, Hope newcomers are welcome.

Newcomers are welcome. I have just discovered this ng. I have had asthma for a long time and recently my internist put me on Accolate. I am interested to hear from others on this medication and their response to it. Has it been effective? How long did it take to help?

Accolate seems to be a ‘wonder drug’ for about 1/3 of the people who try it, shows some results for another 1/3, and does absolutely nothing for the last third.  A very few people taking it have had elevated liver enzymes and had to stop.  Some doctors feel that this is something that should be checked and others apparently do not. Also, has anyone been on Allergra? Has it helped?

I have tried Allegera and noticed that it helps my allergies during ‘hay fever’ season but have not really noticed a detectable asthma improvement.

Response:

of weeks to feel the difference.  As for the drawbacks, you must make sure that you take it 2-3 hrs. before or after eating.  It doesn’t metabolize well and have the strongest affect if taken with food.

Actually it is the other way around.  Accolate should not be taken within 1 hour before a meal or 2 hours after. Taking Accolate during this time peroid reduces the effectivness of the medication by 40%.  (Source: Pharmicist’s Data Sheet for Accolate).

Response:

 I have just discovered this ng. I have had asthma for a long time and recently my internist put me on Accolate. I am interested to hear from others on this medication and their response to it. Has it been effective? How long did it take to help?

I don’t take Accolate, so I can’t be any help there.  Also, has anyone been on Allergra? Has it helped?

I do take Allegra for allergies.  It is God’s own gift! Chris Owens

Response:

Hi and welcome. THere has been a lot of discussion, info, etc on Accolate and Singulair – a newvomer that has a similar mechanism. posts thatn may not be carried on our newserver any longer. Hi,  Hope newcomers are welcome.  I have just discovered this ng. I have had asthma for a long time and recently my internist put me on Accolate. I am interested to hear from others on this medication and their response to it. Has it been effective? How long did it take to help?

there are two kinds of responses: some people have incredible results and they can occur in a few days. the majority improve on these meds but it can take a month or so to be sure.  So take your  whole scrip before making a decision.  BTE, about a third of patients show absolutely NO response to these drugs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Also, has anyone been on Allergra? Has it helped?  Thanks.  Peace,                 nyteowl

Response:

Hi,  Hope newcomers are welcome.  I have just discovered this ng. I have had asthma for a long time and recently my internist put me on Accolate. I am interested to hear from others on this medication and their response to it. Has it been effective? How long did it take to help?  Also, has anyone been on Allergra? Has it helped?  Thanks.  Peace,                 nyteowl

Response:

Hi nyteowl: Welcome… in response to your post, I was on Accolate for 16 months.  I found it very effective and had no problems with it.  I was recently taken off it and have now been put on Singular. Accolate has a few drawbacks to it, and don’t be surprised if you don’t feel the results immediately.  It usually will take a few days to even a couple of weeks to feel the difference.  As for the drawbacks, you must make sure that you take it 2-3 hrs. before or after eating.  It doesn’t metabolize well and have the strongest affect if taken with food.  Also, one of the side effects is a high liver enzyme count.  Make sure your doctor takes blood tests to monitor this.  I had no problems, and if a problem does occur, usually by stopping it for a few days will lower the count, thus allowing you to begin taking it again.  Accolate must also be taken twice a day.  What I found when taking it, and again this is just me,( as I’m sure others have different experiences ) is that at times I had problems sleeping (no asthma symptoms), sometimes I had a bigger appetite and craved sweets (which I don’t eat).  Most of this occurred when I first went on it.  I had a few severe asthma attacks, that was brought on by a cold/infection which put me into the hospital for a week.  There was no warning of an attack, which Accolate is supposed to help, but not stop the attack. As for Singular, I’ve been on it for a month now and it’s so much better for me.  It’s taken at night only, and you can take it with food.  I sleep great, feel stronger and don’t have any tightness at all.  My peak flows have improved almost 50%, and I use my inhaler 1X a day, 2 puffs. There are no found side effects (liver or other), and I haven’t had any asthma attacks or breathing difficulties. Good Luck,          -Althea

Response:

Hello. I have a daughter 7 y/o 2 week ago she was at hospital with the type I diabetes what shall I do? what can I do? Is it possible to convert my daughter from type I to type II ? Can my daughter  100% or partly  be cured? I need ANY INFORMATION Thank You.

Response:

Hello. I have a daughter 7 y/o 2 week ago she was at hospital with the type I diabetes what shall I do? what can I do? Is it possible to convert my daughter from type I to type II ? Can my daughter  100% or partly  be cured? I need ANY INFORMATION Thank You.

You can find a lot of information at http://www.jdfcure.org which is the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation International. Jude —                  - Coming Soon –  BestOrgs.NET         Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Hello Eduard Hello.  I am new to this newsgroup but have been a diabetic since I was 14, am 30 now.  I remember when I was diagnosed, my father felt completely frustrated and helpless.  But, my step mother went through the steps with me to learn to deal with diabetes.  We learned together to take shots, meal plans, exercise, etc.  It was nice to have someone there learning with me. It was also nice cause if I didnt feel like taking the shot myself, she could give it to me. I am not always the best diabetic, and being a father now I know there is nothing I can say that will completely relieve your fears for your daughter. But what I can say is that if you take the time to learn about diabetes with her, and make sure she follows the plan and makes her diabetes care a routine;  that she will become stronger from it and be able to manage as healthy lifestyle as another other child.  Maybe even healthier because she will be following a good strong diet. I wish the best for you and your daughter. Jim — Captain {OTH}, Ouch, That H3RTZ http://othserver.coxinet.net/ MARS Cars-2, Nascar 3 Driver #147 http://www.mars-racing.com/ http://members.tripod.com/rage613mars/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I have a daughter 7 y/o 2 week ago she was at hospital with the type I diabetes what shall I do? what can I do? Is it possible to convert my daughter from type I to type II ? Can my daughter  100% or partly  be cured? I need ANY INFORMATION Thank You.

Response:

Hello. I have a daughter 7 y/o 2 week ago she was at hospital with the type I diabetes what shall I do? what can I do?

Hi Eduard, First of all calm down, and take a deep breath. No need for this much stress on your part or to pass panic messages to your child through your behavior. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of answers about diabetes, but I’m going to talk to you about being the parent of a "different" child, and coping with the unexpected. While my son was not diabetic, he had many other problems. I remember feeling like you are right now when my son was diagnosed as a dwarf with a predicted adult height of slightly over 4 feet, and facing daily injections of growth hormone. What you can and will do, it educate yourself about your daughters condition. I know you asked for messages to be posted to your personal mail, but you need also to stay with this group, alt.support.diabetes and read lots of messages. You can get information about diabetes from your duaghter’s medical team, and your local diabetes assn, but I promise you you’ll learn faster here, and you’ll come to understand what your daughter is going through faster. What you can also do is remember your daughter is still the person she was before and parent her. Some parents tend to freak on medical issues and forget to do stuff like read bedtime stories, go to the park to play, and those kinds of things. Keep your life as normal as possible. Expect your daughter to be able to live as normal a life as possible, so you don’t handicap her with limited expectations. Please write us again and tell us what you feel powerless to cope with or what actions you want to take that you can’t figure out how to accomplish. Maybe then we could give you greater support. Is it possible to convert my daughter from type I to type II ?

No. Not anymore likely than saying I’d rather my daughter’s left arm was borken instead of her right. Can we do that doctor?  Of course not. Can my daughter  100% or partly  be cured?

Not today, but we all hope for a cure in our lifetimes. There is promising research out there. Carol D.

Response:

I am struggling here and am grateful that there are some understanding folks on this site.  Was diagnosed last Oct. and am still trying to get the medication right (comfortable???).  Finally, I am trying Lithium.  The only problem is, we(my doc and I) thought I was having this weird side effect so we are slowly weaning me off it to see if this side effect subsides. Therefore, I am taking a very low dose and even prior to this I was low because I was awaiting my blood levels as this is new med for me. What I want to ask is this, have any of you experienced headaches on Lith. How about weight gain.  Wanting to eat more?  Do you take this med with other medication?   would you consider Lithium a MS?  What effect does it have on depression ?  Alas, have any of you experienced sleep disruption on it?  The latter problem i have experienced recently.

Hi Debie, I hope your treatment goes smoothly and your pdocs can work well with you. I was on lith for about 5 months. It didn’t work all that well for me but its a long story I tell in another post… It was the first aproved mood stablizer that worked with out sedating the heck out of people. But it is a very strong CNS depresant drug.  I had some sleep problems and some sleep improvement on lithium.  The time release formulation is far superior and will give a dose of the drug upfront.  Lith does make most people drowsy. But its not activly targeting brain areas that have to do with sleep. Like the benzodiphine receptors. As a sleeping pill its not very good. But when I was on it  (the normal version) I would sometimes become intencely sleepy about an hour or so after taking it. This drug will alter your sleep. I had real problems waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to get back to sleep. Taking higher doses of lithium at night will really screw up your sleep because of its strong CNS depresant effect. If you have ocational sleep problems I would ask your pdoc for newer sleep medicine like temazapam or ambiem. They both have short half lifes so you generaly don’t have a hangover. You might also try trazodone. Most pdocs will give this out first. Its an older sedating antidepresant that works ok for sleep at low non theraputic doses. Its not a drug that you can keep upping the dose with for sleep problems with out experencing hangovers. A lot of people take trazodone every night just for sleep. If it doesn’t work for you TELL your pdoc and look at the alternatives and their risks. Some other benzodiphine drugs that are also used for sleep are clonazapam (klonipin) or lorazipam (antivan). Klonipin has strong anti convulsant properties so can be uses as "night time mood stablizer". All benzo drugs have the risk of dependance if you keep using them at higher doses. I hope this helps. Reid

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Hi Debbie, I’ll try to keep this really short.  I hate long posts. I don’t want to discourage you, but I was diagnosed five years ago, and I’m still trying to find the right cocktail of drugs.  I can tell you for certain, the ONLY mood stabilizer I responded to right off the bat was Lithium.  It was "the" miracle" drug for me.  Now years later, they’ve added Tegratol into the mix.   As far as sides go, the only time I had them was when my last doctor damn near killed me with toxicity.  He had me on way too much.  I experienced heavy discusting sweating, body twitches, and the worst was the hand tremors.  I couldn’t even sign my own name.  The other major one was vision imparement.  Now these are side effects of toxicity.  Not normal routine dosages.   Now I’ll try to answer your other questions:  I have migraines.  Always have so I don’t know if Lithium makes them worse.  They’re unpredictable at best.  Weight gain?  Not really.  I’ve been this weight for forever… always a bit over.  The med regimine I’m on now consist of 1200mg Lithium, 800m. Tegratol, 150mg. Wellbutrin, and 100-200mg of Trazodone.  The last is for sleep purposes only.  Having said that, you need to also know that I take other meds for other conditions.  How they play into the BP mix is anyone’s guess.  Confusion and memory problems for me are a constant… with or without meds. One very important thing to note with Lithium usage, is to get your blood levels drawn regularly.  I have mine done every 3 months.  And I’ve failed to keep this short. <g I wish you the very best.  And should you have any questions at all, please feel free to email me. Linda (Briteyes) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am struggling here and am grateful that there are some understanding folks on this site.  Was diagnosed last Oct. and am still trying to get the medication right (comfortable???).  Finally, I am trying Lithium.  The only problem is, we(my doc and I) thought I was having this weird side effect so we are slowly weaning me off it to see if this side effect subsides. Therefore, I am taking a very low dose and even prior to this I was low because I was awaiting my blood levels as this is new med for me. What I want to ask is this, have any of you experienced headaches on Lith. How about weight gain.  Wanting to eat more?  Do you take this med with other medication?   would you consider Lithium a MS?  What effect does it have on depression ?  Alas, have any of you experienced sleep disruption on it?  The latter problem i have experienced recently. I have lots of confusion and some memory problems.  I do not know if this is the nature of bp or if the meds I have taken are the cause.  I am tired of this whole business and am STILL trying to accept that I have this illness. There are not a whole lot of folks out here who I can discuss this with. Again, I am grateful I can discuss this with you.  Thanks for sharing your experience-Debbie N

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I am struggling here and am grateful that there are some understanding folks on this site.

Welcome,  Debbie. Tristana

Response:

Hi Debbie, Welcome to ASDM. I am struggling here and am grateful that there are some understanding folks on this site.  Was diagnosed last Oct. and am still trying to get the medication right (comfortable???).  Finally, I am trying Lithium.  The only problem is, we(my doc and I) thought I was having this weird side effect so we are slowly weaning me off it to see if this side effect subsides. Therefore, I am taking a very low dose and even prior to this I was low because I was awaiting my blood levels as this is new med for me.

That is the prudent action to take. Have you discussed other medication options. There are 20 meds from which to chosse today. What I want to ask is this, have any of you experienced headaches on Lith.

It can happen. How about weight gain.

Yes…many have gained weight while taking Lithium. Wanting to eat more? Do you take this med with other medication?  

It can be augmented with another MS. would you consider Lithium a MS?

It is a MS…one of the oldest ones.   What effect does it have on depression ?

Not effective with depression. The newer MS like Lamictal and Neurontin have AD properties. Alas, have any of you experienced sleep disruption on it?  The latter problem i have experienced recently.

I never did but it can happen I have lots of confusion and some memory problems.  I do not know if this is the nature of bp or if the meds I have taken are the cause.

Lithium  has the potential of causing these side effects. I am tired of this whole business and am STILL trying to accept that I have this illness. There are not a whole lot of folks out here who I can discuss this with. Again, I am grateful I can discuss this with you.  Thanks for sharing your experience-Debbie N

Please discuss these side effects with your pdoc. I have enclosed James Milton’s post about the 20 medications available to treat BP stabilization in the US. Peace, "Twenty Medications Used for Bipolar Mood Stabilization in the US" By James D. Milton Last Updated: 7/30/99 <For best results specify that display and printing be done 80 characters/line  with a fixed pitch font to avoid line wrapping. Please see below for various psychotropic meds that are presently being used as mood stabilizing meds in the United States. I have not attempted to list either all of the adverse side effects or all the potential benefits from these psychoaffective medications because they vary considerably from person to person. In addition an entire book could easily be written about the pros and cons of these meds. A person with a Bipolar (BP) disorder will just have to keep on experimenting until they find the meds that are effective for each individual with side effects that can be personally tolerated. In general most people usually find that the newer mood stabilizers will have a more benign adverse side effect profile than the older meds. Also these meds may well prove to be more effective — particularly when the traditional older mood stabilizers have failed for some reason or another. For additional most important information about the efficacy of the newer mood stabilizers please see the following article: Current Treatments in Bipolar Disorder: http://www.cme-reviews.com/supplements.html Since these newer meds have not been available as long, the long term benefits and disadvantages are not as well known as the mood stabilizers that preceded them. Each person should thoroughly discuss ALL the various medication options together with their associated pros and cons with their pdoc (psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist). I strongly advocate a collaborative team approach between patient and their physician. You can find out a lot about the treatment of bipolar disorder by visiting the following most informative Web page compiled by Dr. Ivan Goldberg and then following the many valuable links to other educational sites about bipolar disorder: Bipolar (Manic-Depressive) Disorder: http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.bipolar.html Knowledge, Patience, Persistence, and Med Compliance IMO are vital keys to victory over our common illness. I wish you all the very best in your search for mental stability and well being!                   "Information Regarding BP Mood Stabilizers" Note: Only some of the potentially important effects are listed in the       following tables. Since there are NO universal responses to any       particular psychotropic medication, a person MAY or MAY NOT       experience the positive benefits or the negative adverse side       effects. YBMV (Your Brain May Vary) — and likely will!                             Older Primary Mood Stabilizers Lithium       — Lithobid, Eskalith CR (thyroid damage? tremors? weight gain?) Divalproex    – Depakote, Epival (liver damage? hair loss? weight gain?) Carbamazepine — Tegretol XR, Carbatrol (rare life-threatening anemia and rash?)                   Newer Primary Mood Stabilizers (Anticonvulsants) Gabapentin  – Neurontin (antidepressant? antianxiety med? IMPROVES COGNITION?) Lamotrigine — Lamictal (antidepressant? rashes? rare life-threatening rash?) Topiramate  – Topamax (antidepressant? kidneystones? heart probs? WEIGHT LOSS?) Tiagabine   — Gabatril (blocks reuptake of GABA? cognitive impairment?) Felbamate   — Felbatol (possibility of developing fatal aplastic anemia?) Gamma-vinyl-GABA — Vigabatrin (GVG may aid in cocaine and nicotine addiction?)     Calcium Channel Blockers (to be used ONLY as Secondary Mood Stabilizers) Verapamil  – Calan SR, Isoptin SR (anti-dysrhythmic/anginal/hypertensive agent) Nimodipine — Nimotop (improves cognition? aids multiple sclerosis depression?) Amlodipine — Norvasc, Lotrel (anti-hypertensive agent) Diltiazem  – Cardizem CD (anti-hypertensive/anginal agent) Felodipine — Plendil (anti-hypertensive agent) Isradipine — DynaCirc (anti-hypertensive agent) Nicardipine– Cardene (anti-hypertensive agent) Nifedipine — Procardia XL (anti-hypertensive/anginal/pulmonary-edema agent)             Adjunctive Medications Having Mood Stabilizing Properties Clozapine — Clozaril (older antipsychotic to be used only with anticonvulsants) Levothyroxine — Synthroid (adjust T4 level to 25% the upper limit of normal) Liothyronine sodium — Cytomel (adjust T3 level to treat refractory depression) Combining two (or more) mood stabilizers MAY be more effective than when each is taken alone. This is called "polytherapy" as opposed to the more traditional "monotherapy". One med may "potentiate" the effectiveness of another — so that the total effect becomes greater than the sum of its individual contributors. I believe that the efficacy of this approach is becoming increasingly apparent — particularly in refractory cases. It is my personal belief that polytherapy should also be utilized in nonrefractory BP cases as well. This concept is a "defense-in-depth" approach. Where one mood stabilizer is weak, hopefully another will be able to compensate for this weakness. For additional important technical information on "combination" or polytherapy please see: The Role of Complex Combination Therapy in the Treatment of Refractory Bipolar Illness: http://www.cme-reviews.com/CNS598_post.html Lithium carbonate (or another mood stabilizer) may prove helpful as a secondary adjunct to one of the newer mood stabilizers which have demonstrated powerful antidepressive properties for some people. Consequently for example I suggest that Neurontin-lithium and Lamictal-lithium combinations be considered. It is also possible that subtherapeutic dosages of lithium carbonate may be taken so as to minimize its adverse side effects. My recommendation for optimal results is Neurontin-Lamictal. However due to the potential strong antidepressive properties of each med, suggested conservative dosage titration protocols are given below. Of course only one mood stabilizer dosage should be adjusted at a time. A calcium channel blocker should at this point only be used as a secondary mood stabilizer — solely in conjunction with an effective primary mood stabilizer. There is some evidence to suggest that calcium channel blockers may be effectively used as antimanic agents — possibly as a replacement for lithium. They appear to have a much more benign side effect profile because they do not cause weight gain, do not cause tremors, and are well tolerated for gastrointestinal upsets and other adverse side effects. Of the 8 calcium channel blockers listed above, verapamil and nimodipine are the ones most commonly being used. Nimodipine is unfortunately quite expensive but shows promise under certain circumstances. Nimodipine is one of the few drugs found to increase the cerebrospinal fluid levels of somatostatin, a neuropeptide known to be permanently reduced in patients with Alzheimer’s and transiently reduced during active episodes of both depression and multiple sclerosis. Somatostatin depletion is also associated with problems of learning and memory. Subjectively, a number of patients felt more cognitively clear on nimodipine. Clozaril (clozapine) is … read more »

Response:

I am struggling here and am grateful that there are some understanding folks on this site.  Was diagnosed last Oct. and am still trying to get the medication right (comfortable???).  Finally, I am trying Lithium.  The only problem is, we(my doc and I) thought I was having this weird side effect so we are slowly weaning me off it to see if this side effect subsides. Therefore, I am taking a very low dose and even prior to this I was low because I was awaiting my blood levels as this is new med for me. What I want to ask is this, have any of you experienced headaches on Lith. How about weight gain.  Wanting to eat more?  Do you take this med with other medication?   would you consider Lithium a MS?  What effect does it have on depression ?  Alas, have any of you experienced sleep disruption on it?  The latter problem i have experienced recently. I have lots of confusion and some memory problems.  I do not know if this is the nature of bp or if the meds I have taken are the cause.  I am tired of this whole business and am STILL trying to accept that I have this illness. There are not a whole lot of folks out here who I can discuss this with. Again, I am grateful I can discuss this with you.  Thanks for sharing your experience-Debbie N

Response:

Dear Debbie, welcome to the group, I am glad you found us. It is nice to see you here. I personally do not have any experience taking lithium so I will leave it to others to talk about that. But I just wanted to say that I can empathize with you about the struggle to accept the illness.  It is a huge change in how you see yourself, at least it was for me. and the struggle to get the medications right is a major hassle. One of the things I find most frustrating is that the body chemistry and life circumstances that affect it, keep changing, so my meds have to be changed and fine tuned. I wish I could get the meds settled once and for all.  One of the keys is to try to establish a stable life routine, particularly a healthy sleep schedule. I am not so good at that, sometimes I end up staying up way too late. Also I don’t have a great diet and exercise plan. I am definitely not the model bipolar. However, even with my shortcomings I am doing well in my life, and I wish for you a similar success. — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

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Thanks for the tip -Ephraim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got a new computer and I can access the Net from my house instead of having to go to the library. I wonder, have any of you explored the Depression Central link on Dr. Bob’s Psychopharmacology Tips site, http://uhs.bsd.uchicago.edu/dr-bob/tips/tips.html ? Dr. Bob has a great site for people who want to learn about the scientific aspect of mood disorders. I first heard of Neurontin while exploring his site, and, though it took a while to find a Psychiatrist who would let me give it a try, once I found one and started taking it I discovered the first antimanic agent that I’m responsive to. I have mixed episodes, so I’m treatment-resistant, but now I’m on Wellbutrin and Neurontin and it’s the most effective combination of medications I’ve encountered. The Depression Central site has more info on Bipolar Disorder than I’ve ever encountered before. I can spend hours reading and re-reading the articles. I’ve found that you get used to the scientific jargon after a while if you just keep digging. I wish my Psychiatrist would read the articles therein. The problem with Psychiatrist is that they treat a whole spectrum of illnesses and don’t have the inclination to do any deep digging for info on BPD. It wasn’t until I printed out a series of posts to DBPT and read sections of them to my shrink that he finally agreed to give Neurontin a try. He didn’t think that I was suffering from mixed episodes, even though that was the diagnosis I got when I was an ‘inmate’ at the Cleveland Clinic Psych ward. Knowledge is power, inform yourselves.

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I just got a new computer and I can access the Net from my house instead of having to go to the library. ….snipped…. Knowledge is power, inform yourselves.

Welcome and thanks for sharing the sites.  Fascinating info, isn’t it? Others in the group have provided great links for learning and will be able to direct you further.  Also, and you probably know this but I am the "queen of the obvious", type "bipolar disorder" or "manic depression" into a search engine for more quick sites. regards, julie

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I just got a new computer and I can access the Net from my house instead of having to go to the library. I wonder, have any of you explored the Depression Central link on Dr. Bob’s Psychopharmacology Tips site, http://uhs.bsd.uchicago.edu/dr-bob/tips/tips.html ? Dr. Bob has a great site for people who want to learn about the scientific aspect of mood disorders. I first heard of Neurontin while exploring his site, and, though it took a while to find a Psychiatrist who would let me give it a try, once I found one and started taking it I discovered the first antimanic agent that I’m responsive to. I have mixed episodes, so I’m treatment-resistant, but now I’m on Wellbutrin and Neurontin and it’s the most effective combination of medications I’ve encountered. The Depression Central site has more info on Bipolar Disorder than I’ve ever encountered before. I can spend hours reading and re-reading the articles. I’ve found that you get used to the scientific jargon after a while if you just keep digging. I wish my Psychiatrist would read the articles therein. The problem with Psychiatrist is that they treat a whole spectrum of illnesses and don’t have the inclination to do any deep digging for info on BPD. It wasn’t until I printed out a series of posts to DBPT and read sections of them to my shrink that he finally agreed to give Neurontin a try. He didn’t think that I was suffering from mixed episodes, even though that was the diagnosis I got when I was an ‘inmate’ at the Cleveland Clinic Psych ward. Knowledge is power, inform yourselves.

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Suzie,   Welcome to the group!  You’ll love it here.  Everyone is very supportive and VERY helpful. Sue

Response:

Suzie,  Welcome to the group!  You’ll love it here.  Everyone is very supportive and VERY helpful. Sue

Amen!! Jane

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hi, my name is Suzie and I have JRA for 20  years and I was looking for a support who can relate to having arthritis,surgeries,(replacement, and meds. I let a message in the othe new group-misc.health.arthritis too. I just move to NJ, from Brooklyn, NY and I miss all my friends so I was hoping to make new ones. Is anybody interested? Suzie

Response:

hi, my name is Suzie and I have JRA for 20  years and I was looking for a support who can relate to having arthritis,surgeries,(replacement, and meds. I let a message in the othe new group-misc.health.arthritis too. I just move to NJ, from Brooklyn, NY and I miss all my friends so I was hoping to make new ones. Is anybody interested? Suzie

Suzie, You’ll find lots of support here! A great bunch of people! You can whine, bitch and cry here….and everyone knows how you feel! Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy "The most thoroughly wasted of all days is that  in which one has not laughed." Nicolas Chamfort

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Hi Marge — have you been lurking or just missing for a few weeks? Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Welcome!  There are many friendly, warm people here. I can share what has worked wonderful for me for almost 4 1/2 years now. I take Minocin, an antibiotic.The  book The New Arthritis Breakthrough By Henry Scammell helps explain this  theory.

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Welcome to the group, Carol! Cindy is one of those who can’t be trusted with the chocoloate. So here, let ME hold it for you instead! hugs! -kk p.s. I have RA (rheumatoid arthritis). I have to take strong meds for it but it’s better than ending up with my joints damaged. So be sure to take the advice of others here and get a good rheumatologist to check you out! p.p.s. Notice the body of this note is about chocolate, and the subject of arthritis is relegated to the PS! You can tell from that what is important around here! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Carol, and welcome to the group.  I’m sorry to hear that you’re having some discomfort.  Pain in the knees and hands was the first symptoms of what turned out to be RA.  Please keep going to doctors (especially rheumatologists) until you get a diagnosis and some treatment.  It would be better for  your future if you were diagnosed and treated early in the game. Investigate the possibilities of herbal medications, too, but let your doctor know what you are taking. Stick around….there are a lot of knowledgeable people here who will have information to help you. Cindy R. p.s. – do you like chocolate? Do you happen to have any with you?  Better let me hold it for you….some people in here can’t be trusted! ;- Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

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Welcome to the group, Carol! Cindy is one of those who can’t be trusted with the chocoloate. So here, let ME hold it for you instead!

kk, Now you know you shouldn’t be lifting things with that costo flaring. Here, i’ll just go ahead and help you out……. Aim To reply via email, make sure to remove the DEATH-TO-SPAMMERS from my address! It should read:  aimgrrrl at mindspring dot com

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I started acupuncture for my shoulder about 5 week ago and it has really helped with the pain.  It took about 7 treatments before I really seen a difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

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Hi! Welcome!  There are many friendly, warm people here. I can share what has worked wonderful for me for almost 4 1/2 years now. I take Minocin, an antibiotic.The  book The New Arthritis Breakthrough By Henry Scammell helps explain this  theory. I was sick and on many traditional treatments for over 16 years and,for me, not good results.  Minocin has allowed me to wean off Pred, off MTX aa well as stomach meds and sleep meds. I take no pain meds and have gotten a lot of my old strength back.  There have been clinical trials for minocin proving it safe and effective for RA and it has done well with the newly diagnosed especially. My daughter( also an Ra-er) is in remission on Minocin for over 3 yrs now. The website www.roadback.org has a lot of information on it as well as a free protocol. There is a bulletin board to ask questions  under online support.. If I can help in any way, let me know I was so happy to find this treatment. It has really given me back a great quality of life! Love, Marge Marge

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Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Welcome (((Carol)))  Plenty of freindly and informed people on this site. Have you got a really good Rheumatologist?  If not as a first priority get one to diagnose you etc.  maureen   UK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Hello Carol, and welcome to the group.  I’m sorry to hear that you’re having some discomfort.  Pain in the knees and hands was the first symptoms of what turned out to be RA.  Please keep going to doctors (especially rheumatologists) until you get a diagnosis and some treatment.  It would be better for  your future if you were diagnosed and treated early in the game. Investigate the possibilities of herbal medications, too, but let your doctor know what you are taking.     Stick around….there are a lot of knowledgeable people here who will have information to help you. Cindy R. p.s. – do you like chocolate? Do you happen to have any with you?  Better let me hold it for you….some people in here can’t be trusted! ;-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

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Hi Carol: have you seen a rheumatologist [RD]?  If not you need to do that first. Get a start to a diagnosis and then on to a medicine choice which will help you before you get any joint damage. Here are two good sites for reference work: http://www.arthritisinsight.com http://www.arthritis.co.za/   This site even has a section on preparing for your first visit to a RD. Keep us posted. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Suzie,   Welcome to the group!  You’ll love it here.  Everyone is very supportive and VERY helpful. Sue

Response:

Suzie,  Welcome to the group!  You’ll love it here.  Everyone is very supportive and VERY helpful. Sue

Amen!! Jane

Response:

hi, my name is Suzie and I have JRA for 20  years and I was looking for a support who can relate to having arthritis,surgeries,(replacement, and meds. I let a message in the othe new group-misc.health.arthritis too. I just move to NJ, from Brooklyn, NY and I miss all my friends so I was hoping to make new ones. Is anybody interested? Suzie

Response:

hi, my name is Suzie and I have JRA for 20  years and I was looking for a support who can relate to having arthritis,surgeries,(replacement, and meds. I let a message in the othe new group-misc.health.arthritis too. I just move to NJ, from Brooklyn, NY and I miss all my friends so I was hoping to make new ones. Is anybody interested? Suzie

Suzie, You’ll find lots of support here! A great bunch of people! You can whine, bitch and cry here….and everyone knows how you feel! Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy "The most thoroughly wasted of all days is that  in which one has not laughed." Nicolas Chamfort

Response:

Hi Marge — have you been lurking or just missing for a few weeks? Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Welcome!  There are many friendly, warm people here. I can share what has worked wonderful for me for almost 4 1/2 years now. I take Minocin, an antibiotic.The  book The New Arthritis Breakthrough By Henry Scammell helps explain this  theory.

Response:

Welcome to the group, Carol! Cindy is one of those who can’t be trusted with the chocoloate. So here, let ME hold it for you instead! hugs! -kk p.s. I have RA (rheumatoid arthritis). I have to take strong meds for it but it’s better than ending up with my joints damaged. So be sure to take the advice of others here and get a good rheumatologist to check you out! p.p.s. Notice the body of this note is about chocolate, and the subject of arthritis is relegated to the PS! You can tell from that what is important around here! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Carol, and welcome to the group.  I’m sorry to hear that you’re having some discomfort.  Pain in the knees and hands was the first symptoms of what turned out to be RA.  Please keep going to doctors (especially rheumatologists) until you get a diagnosis and some treatment.  It would be better for  your future if you were diagnosed and treated early in the game. Investigate the possibilities of herbal medications, too, but let your doctor know what you are taking. Stick around….there are a lot of knowledgeable people here who will have information to help you. Cindy R. p.s. – do you like chocolate? Do you happen to have any with you?  Better let me hold it for you….some people in here can’t be trusted! ;- Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Welcome to the group, Carol! Cindy is one of those who can’t be trusted with the chocoloate. So here, let ME hold it for you instead!

kk, Now you know you shouldn’t be lifting things with that costo flaring. Here, i’ll just go ahead and help you out……. Aim To reply via email, make sure to remove the DEATH-TO-SPAMMERS from my address! It should read:  aimgrrrl at mindspring dot com

Response:

I started acupuncture for my shoulder about 5 week ago and it has really helped with the pain.  It took about 7 treatments before I really seen a difference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Hi! Welcome!  There are many friendly, warm people here. I can share what has worked wonderful for me for almost 4 1/2 years now. I take Minocin, an antibiotic.The  book The New Arthritis Breakthrough By Henry Scammell helps explain this  theory. I was sick and on many traditional treatments for over 16 years and,for me, not good results.  Minocin has allowed me to wean off Pred, off MTX aa well as stomach meds and sleep meds. I take no pain meds and have gotten a lot of my old strength back.  There have been clinical trials for minocin proving it safe and effective for RA and it has done well with the newly diagnosed especially. My daughter( also an Ra-er) is in remission on Minocin for over 3 yrs now. The website www.roadback.org has a lot of information on it as well as a free protocol. There is a bulletin board to ask questions  under online support.. If I can help in any way, let me know I was so happy to find this treatment. It has really given me back a great quality of life! Love, Marge Marge

Response:

Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Welcome (((Carol)))  Plenty of freindly and informed people on this site. Have you got a really good Rheumatologist?  If not as a first priority get one to diagnose you etc.  maureen   UK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Hello Carol, and welcome to the group.  I’m sorry to hear that you’re having some discomfort.  Pain in the knees and hands was the first symptoms of what turned out to be RA.  Please keep going to doctors (especially rheumatologists) until you get a diagnosis and some treatment.  It would be better for  your future if you were diagnosed and treated early in the game. Investigate the possibilities of herbal medications, too, but let your doctor know what you are taking.     Stick around….there are a lot of knowledgeable people here who will have information to help you. Cindy R. p.s. – do you like chocolate? Do you happen to have any with you?  Better let me hold it for you….some people in here can’t be trusted! ;-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

Hi Carol: have you seen a rheumatologist [RD]?  If not you need to do that first. Get a start to a diagnosis and then on to a medicine choice which will help you before you get any joint damage. Here are two good sites for reference work: http://www.arthritisinsight.com http://www.arthritis.co.za/   This site even has a section on preparing for your first visit to a RD. Keep us posted. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I have been suffering from arthritis for a couple of years now.  First of all my right knee and then I had an anthroscopy.  Seems to be worse since I had that done.  My right elbow has got bad now and difficult to pick up anything.  If I carry anthing for too long it is very painful.  Have tried glugosamine and chondroitin.  Worked to begin with but not doesnt make any difference. Any tips.  Doctors dont seem to be very helpful.   Knee is very stiff.  I am like an old lady when it comes to walking and my leg has deformed a bit now. Carol

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

hi Kile! If you imagine it will be such a hard time for you, then you might benefit from some preparation. For instance: have you considered using patches or Zyban, or any other aid? In this group, there have been a lot of discussions about the aids, and you can also find information (and see the faces of the people here!) on www.quitbuddies.org. Preparation, for me, also consists of doing things I like. I make sure I’ve got plenty of fat fantasy novels in the house, and allow myself to eat whatever I like, for a few weeks. In short, I’m *nice* to myself. Keep reading, and posting, so you feel familiar here and feel comfortable to shout for support (or fun, or chat) when the time has come. It is your quit, and yours alone. May the road rise to meet you, and be welcome to the Rockers 2004! Gita … I have not smoked in two days and 15 hours. 47 cigarettes remained unbought, saving fl 7,95. Time saved to save the earth and wonder about the meaning of life: 3 hours, 55 minutes.

Response:

Congrats on making the decision to quit, Kyle.  I’m glad you’ve set a date; now is the time to prepare, and you’re in the right place.  Jump on in here, read the posts, scour the internet for credible information, post here as much as you want, and get yourself psyched up for the most important decision you’ll ever make.  It likely won’t be an easy thing to do but the people here can make it bearable (and even fun sometimes!); the support to be found in this group is second to none. Yes you are right that smoking becomes an ingrained activity that we associate with everything we do.  That’s a pretty key point when it comes to this and it’s great to see it early on.  You’ll be changing lots and lots of habitual behaviors and it can help you to have a plan, or at least to have presence of mind about this so that you can change your habits. In fact, you can start working on this now, before you even quit.  For example, you could think about each cigarette you smoke and think about what you might be able to do as a non-smoker in this circumstance instead.  You can start planning those trigger-shifting habits now, as part of your preparation.  You can also start shifting the way you think about smoking now, by looking at each cigarette you smoke in a different way.  Each time you light one, tell yourself that the cigarette is just a poison delivery system, that it’s nothing but a paper tube filled with burning leaves, and ask yourself if any sane, non-addicted person would be caught dead putting that thing in their mouth… and answer honestly, every time you light up. Stuff like that, as preparation, can help you when the time comes. Glad to have you with us hugs, elle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

Welcome Kyle, get comfy & settle in here. You can do this! Cat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Welcome along Kyle! Heaps of good advice in this thread already, so will just trot out my favourite thing to do when preparing for a quit. Make lists. Lists of why you want to quit – all the awful things about smoking that make you feel like this is it, you have gotta lose this habit, and for good. Lists of what you will do during a crave…be it chew some NRT gum, or normal gum, drink a glass of water, have a cup of tea, take a shower, go for a walk…your list will be as individual as you. And finally, my favourite, a list of rewards for each milestone. This might be something as simple as a soak in the bath with a new bubble bath, or a cd, or movie, or even saving up for a major indulgence (some folks got bikes, or kites, or whatever their thing was)… Best wishes to you. Get prepared. You can do this…and using the time until 20th January for preparation means that your quit is going to be that much better. Paula

Response:

Kyle,    Don’t know what your dietary issues are, but if you can have sugar at all try some hard candies.  I used to suck on REEDS Cinnamon candies.  One role, a tad larger than life savers, would last a day and the strong cinnamon flavor handled the oral fixation part of smoking.    Hang in there cause as I can tell you a cold turkey quit can be tough at first.  It does start to get easier earlier than other methods but still the first few weeks are real mind benders. Ian OOF — 8y 11m 2d 15:39 smoke-free, 110,789 cigs not smoked, $13,671.36 saved, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

You’ve come to the right place Kyle, my friend. Getting over the constant oral stimulation was a challenge for me too.  (Oh, I can hear the jokes now!) I also missed the hand to mouth motion.  M&Ms helped but weight gain is a concern for me.  So (as someone here suggested) I made a smoking straw.  Cut a soda straw in half and stuff one end with cotton.  The cotton can be "flavored" by a drop of vanilla, mint, eucalyptus, clove, whatever.  When the craves got overpowering I would "smoke" my straw.  It helped alot.  I mean ALOT. Looking forward to getting to know you Kyle. Chris 4M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Welcome, Kyle!  Can you have celery or carrots?  Apple slices or Altoids? Do you have a short drinking straw or a toothpick?  Suck on some bottled water for fun!  You can do this.  Perhaps the girlfriend can suggest other distractions to take your mind off cigarettes . . . ? Welcome to the elite January 2004 quitters.  We rock! Maude

Response:

Welcome to the group….I started posting a month before I quit although I usually only lurked….I really built myself up…use this NG as a tool to get ya hyped! — Steff Medic1455

Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s

the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce,

however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I

don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every

facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument

against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys

soon because you are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

Hey Kyle…you’ve come to the right place. Keep reading, it really helps to hear what others are/have going/gone thru.  :- Oh …and what the hell is Chinese licorce?? Ripley / placid in Pink — Nuttin nasty in here!!  :-) Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

hi Kile! If you imagine it will be such a hard time for you, then you might benefit from some preparation. For instance: have you considered using patches or Zyban, or any other aid? In this group, there have been a lot of discussions about the aids, and you can also find information (and see the faces of the people here!) on www.quitbuddies.org. Preparation, for me, also consists of doing things I like. I make sure I’ve got plenty of fat fantasy novels in the house, and allow myself to eat whatever I like, for a few weeks. In short, I’m *nice* to myself. Keep reading, and posting, so you feel familiar here and feel comfortable to shout for support (or fun, or chat) when the time has come. It is your quit, and yours alone. May the road rise to meet you, and be welcome to the Rockers 2004! Gita … I have not smoked in two days and 15 hours. 47 cigarettes remained unbought, saving fl 7,95. Time saved to save the earth and wonder about the meaning of life: 3 hours, 55 minutes.

Response:

Congrats on making the decision to quit, Kyle.  I’m glad you’ve set a date; now is the time to prepare, and you’re in the right place.  Jump on in here, read the posts, scour the internet for credible information, post here as much as you want, and get yourself psyched up for the most important decision you’ll ever make.  It likely won’t be an easy thing to do but the people here can make it bearable (and even fun sometimes!); the support to be found in this group is second to none. Yes you are right that smoking becomes an ingrained activity that we associate with everything we do.  That’s a pretty key point when it comes to this and it’s great to see it early on.  You’ll be changing lots and lots of habitual behaviors and it can help you to have a plan, or at least to have presence of mind about this so that you can change your habits. In fact, you can start working on this now, before you even quit.  For example, you could think about each cigarette you smoke and think about what you might be able to do as a non-smoker in this circumstance instead.  You can start planning those trigger-shifting habits now, as part of your preparation.  You can also start shifting the way you think about smoking now, by looking at each cigarette you smoke in a different way.  Each time you light one, tell yourself that the cigarette is just a poison delivery system, that it’s nothing but a paper tube filled with burning leaves, and ask yourself if any sane, non-addicted person would be caught dead putting that thing in their mouth… and answer honestly, every time you light up. Stuff like that, as preparation, can help you when the time comes. Glad to have you with us hugs, elle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

Welcome Kyle, get comfy & settle in here. You can do this! Cat

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Welcome along Kyle! Heaps of good advice in this thread already, so will just trot out my favourite thing to do when preparing for a quit. Make lists. Lists of why you want to quit – all the awful things about smoking that make you feel like this is it, you have gotta lose this habit, and for good. Lists of what you will do during a crave…be it chew some NRT gum, or normal gum, drink a glass of water, have a cup of tea, take a shower, go for a walk…your list will be as individual as you. And finally, my favourite, a list of rewards for each milestone. This might be something as simple as a soak in the bath with a new bubble bath, or a cd, or movie, or even saving up for a major indulgence (some folks got bikes, or kites, or whatever their thing was)… Best wishes to you. Get prepared. You can do this…and using the time until 20th January for preparation means that your quit is going to be that much better. Paula

Response:

Kyle,    Don’t know what your dietary issues are, but if you can have sugar at all try some hard candies.  I used to suck on REEDS Cinnamon candies.  One role, a tad larger than life savers, would last a day and the strong cinnamon flavor handled the oral fixation part of smoking.    Hang in there cause as I can tell you a cold turkey quit can be tough at first.  It does start to get easier earlier than other methods but still the first few weeks are real mind benders. Ian OOF — 8y 11m 2d 15:39 smoke-free, 110,789 cigs not smoked, $13,671.36 saved, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

You’ve come to the right place Kyle, my friend. Getting over the constant oral stimulation was a challenge for me too.  (Oh, I can hear the jokes now!) I also missed the hand to mouth motion.  M&Ms helped but weight gain is a concern for me.  So (as someone here suggested) I made a smoking straw.  Cut a soda straw in half and stuff one end with cotton.  The cotton can be "flavored" by a drop of vanilla, mint, eucalyptus, clove, whatever.  When the craves got overpowering I would "smoke" my straw.  It helped alot.  I mean ALOT. Looking forward to getting to know you Kyle. Chris 4M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Welcome, Kyle!  Can you have celery or carrots?  Apple slices or Altoids? Do you have a short drinking straw or a toothpick?  Suck on some bottled water for fun!  You can do this.  Perhaps the girlfriend can suggest other distractions to take your mind off cigarettes . . . ? Welcome to the elite January 2004 quitters.  We rock! Maude

Response:

Welcome to the group….I started posting a month before I quit although I usually only lurked….I really built myself up…use this NG as a tool to get ya hyped! — Steff Medic1455

Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s

the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce,

however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I

don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every

facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument

against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys

soon because you are – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

Hey Kyle…you’ve come to the right place. Keep reading, it really helps to hear what others are/have going/gone thru.  :- Oh …and what the hell is Chinese licorce?? Ripley / placid in Pink — Nuttin nasty in here!!  :-) Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Hello everyone, I’m so happy this group exists. January 20 is my first quit date but 3rd attempt. It’s not the nicotine at all. It’s the oral fixation, and I don’t know how to handle it because I can’t have pretzels or licorice because of my diet. Chinese licorce, however, does substitute alright except you don’t get the smoke Man, I don’t know what to do to break this. It is so damn hard because like everyone else who smokes, i think, I incorporated it into every facet of my life. I’m really happy that my girlfriend really wants me to quit. And I just think of it like "well quit" and every argument against it I think of a counter argument. I will go now and I hope to talk to you guys soon because you are doing a great serves to others who are trying to quit. Sincerely, Kyle

Response:

Question:

Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth

Response:

I wonder…did you ever find any way to deal with the rhinitis?  I’ve had that problem for about four years now…drives me crazy.  Nasal sprays make me really ill, so for now I just carry lots of Kleenex. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks folks.  I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it.  The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time.  I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief.  I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro).  I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough!  All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches.   When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex.  Damn, if I wasn’t right.  I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines.  The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors.  It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most  probably anything.  Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen.  I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have  developed depression because of so much trauma.  Treat your depression early if you think you might have it.  After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life.  God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman" I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Yes I finally have found relief with many trials of meds, but like I said in my last post " All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches."  The odd thing was the pain I felt across the face( mainly between and around the eyes – also deep inside the nasal passages).  I mistook the pain for sinus related when it was not; the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks.  The migration of pain was the telltale symptom which made me understand what was really going on; it was migraines (maybe with or without sinus problems).  I suffer severely from vaso-motor rhinitis; if I go into a smoky environment without a filtering mask (I use charcoal impregnated 3M paper masks -3M 8247, and they really help me)  I might suffer for 1-3 days.  I use the nasal spray Nasacort and the anti-histamine nasal spray Astelin.  I recently discovered that taking Allegra tabs (60 mg fexafenadine) really relieved the facial migraines, but not the migraines as a whole.  My eyes and nasal areas were not involved nearly as much after I took fexafenadine after a week.  I gave up on the fexafenadine about a year ago after a few days use, but this time(late this summer and early fall) I tried for over a week; I finally started to get relief from my facial migraine involvement.  Now when I get a migraine they just migrate around the head without as much eye nose involvement.  I’ve tried all the saline irrigation stuff; it never helped. I have not had a sinus infection since March 2003.  I suggest saline nasal spray and saline gel (brand "Ayr") to keep the nasal membranes from drying out;  I especially moisten inside my nose before I go to bed at night.  The antidepressants Nortriptyline, Trazadone, Prozac, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin, Ritalin, Serzone, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Zoloft, and Amytriptyline have caused  my migraines.  I have tried some several times (esp. this year), and before I get to a medicating dose I usually suffer migraine symptoms.  Amytriptyline made me ill for over a week with migraines even after stopping the drug — truly a hellish experience of migraines. Back to the sinus problems,  I try to avoid situations I know will cause me problems.  Late summer and fall are usually bad times for me; so, I try to stay indoors as much as possible—-really a screwing because the weather is so nice.  I was tested several times for allergies (the 25 most common allergens), and all was negative.  There is some allergen involved because this period of time has always been my period for the worst sinus problem with frequent infections.  My sinus problems [esp. vaso-motor rhinitis reactors (ex. smoke, and petroleum smells)], most all antidepressants, NSAIDs (aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti inflammatory  drugs), and diazepam are migraine triggers to me.  I’m very lucky that the VA is helping me now (I couldn’t get help in the late 70’s or 80’s). The health care in the USA is our country’s largest disgrace; it must be changed for the better.  43 million people without health insurance is horrendous; it is even more so when we consider our country as the leading world power.  84 billion dollars sure could help some sick folks here.  Our country should be brought up on charges of cruelty and inhuman treatments in some world court.  We seem to be generous except with our own people.  Our social service system is overwhelmed by the influx of legal and illegal aliens; our country is NO longer a vast wilderness needing pioneers to settle it.  Look at our country from a satellite view at night, and see our consumption of power.  See how rich we were, and how debt ridden we are getting.  Now, right wing gung ho capitalists and impractical liberals alike want the cheap labor the hordes of immigrants can bring.  Remember when we talked about population control in the world (late sixties), and we discussed aiming for zero population growth.  I guess over population of the world will happen because of politics and religion; the world is doomed because of this.  Look at what’s happening with the polar ice cap and read about the effects of all that fresh water pouring into the upper Atlantic. I’m glad I live now instead of 100 years in the future.  I guess I have too much time to think——gee  I wonder why we talk about Arnold instead of something or someone of substance.  Back to sinuses — *<];o)) Sincerely — Randymann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth

Response:

the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks.

That’s very interesting to hear you say that, because many time when I have a migraine, it hurts to breath on the right side (my migraines are usually on the right) of my nostril- the air going up my nose actually causes pain. I hope I explained this coherently- my doctor looks at me like I’m nuts when I tell him this! SueS

Response:

Thanks folks.  I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it.  The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time.  I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief.  I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro).  I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough!  All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches.   When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex.  Damn, if I wasn’t right.  I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines.  The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors.  It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most  probably anything.  Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen.  I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so.  I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have  developed depression because of so much trauma.  Treat your depression early if you think you might have it.  After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them.  I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life.  God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Interesting and worth remembering.  Thanks for sharing the info. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the same problem with SSRI’s.  They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well.  I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right.  Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH.  For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern.  Worth a try if all else fails. Erik I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

I have the same problem with SSRI’s.  They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well.  I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right.  Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH.  For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern.  Worth a try if all else fails. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Have you tried the triptans like Imitrex, Zomig, Maxalt, Frova, Relpax, Amerge, Axert?  Also, have you tried Lexapro as an antidepressant. It’s supposed to be a newer, better med. Just some thoughts. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron.  Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition.  All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there.   I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now.  Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also.   Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time.  Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Question:

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

" Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence?

Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+.

Susan Love debunks this on her site: http://www.susanlovemd.com/community/flashes/hotflash030725.htm

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.  The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Hi Nana, I don’t know if this is true for all but whenever  I ate foods with sugar I would get an almost immediate hot flash.  Avoiding those foods helped a great deal.  Then, if and when I did get one I tried to ride it through like a wave on the ocean.  Doing that me feel like I had some sense of control and that helped, too. Do hope these are lessened for you—take care…

Response:

I had unbearable hot flashes after CMF-induced chemopause at age 43.  Every 20-30 minutes,  24/7, dripping sweat on the floor….  I tried the yam cream (no help), clonidine patches (wouldn’t stick I sweat so much)- finally my onc tried Effexor XR– I got almost immediate relief (I take 75 mg in the AM)  The major side effect is that it can raise your blood pressure.  I have zero side effects.  jeannette

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.

You are correct; Effexor is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibiter (SSRI).  As with any drug, it may have unwanted side effects, but is generally better tolerated than the tricyclics (which aren’t that bad for many people).  Clonidine (Catapres(R)), an alpha adrenergic blocker usually used for blood pressure control helps some folks, as does Bellergal or similar mixtures, evening primrose oil, and vitamin E.  I think the SSRIs are currently preferred.  Zoloft and Effexor are both good. Both can be associated with either weight gain or loss; Effexor is a little more likely to cause weight loss than gain, while most of the others cause gain more frequently than loss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Thanks for the correction.  I knew when I wrote it that it didn’t look right, and should have known better.  My daughter took many, many of the SSRI’s a couple of years ago for postpartum depression.  She had a hard time finding the right one and did have significant side effects with this category of drugs.  That doesn’t mean that another person would have the same.  I just prefer to put up with the hot flashes rather than risk the possible side effects.  It’s great when a person gets the optimum benefit with few of the hassles, isn’t it?  Thanks again for clearing my "boo-boo". Barb

Response:

Hi, Nana:     I must be one of the weird ones. I have the hot flashes, but I love the blinkin’ things — first time I’ve been warm in years.     I was also ER+. Nonetheless, when I started having the hot flashes, by onc offered to put me on an estrogen ring which would emit just enough estrogen to keep the hot flashes down but not enough to exacerbate the cancer. I didn’t take it because, as I said, I’m crazy and love my hot flashes.     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. As far as I’m concerned, he’s our guru. But I wouldn’t take anything without talking first with your oncologist. Until you do, grab a fan and ice water, girlfriend! I wish I could take your flashes for you. I only get them every 3 minutes!     Hugs,         Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth. I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I don’t really know very much about this.  I would certainly think that progesterone cream was a bad idea if the cancer is PR+, however the effect on potential tumours is relatively long term, so I doubt that 3 weeks has caused a problem. With regard to Black Cohosh and its ilk, there seem to be differing opinions, and the research results seem to be uncertain.  One obviously wants to minimise estrogen activity, but to replace the function of estrogen in -parts- of the body.  So the fact that it is estrogen-like is not necessarily a bad thing, it depends on the specific effects on breast cancer tissue, ie which particular estrogen receptors it can bind to.  After all Tamoxifen is estrogen-like in that it binds to estrogen receptors, but of course having done so it dos not activate them. I wouldn’t rule it out yet, but I’d read up on the latest research before using it, and of course consult with your oncologist before prescribing yourself anything, ‘natural’ or otherwise. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

Response:

Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8

Response:

<< Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8   I don’t know that much about vitamins but do think we need to be cautious about anything out-of-the norm that we opt to take.  One important fact about vitamins and supplements–they are considered dietary aids and are under different regulations for manufacture than medications.  What is contained and what the label states is contained do not have to be the same.  Because they are considered ‘dietary,’ they are allowed some leeway in that regard.  So, if decides to take them it is good to ascertain whether or not the company that you are getting them from guarantees that the ingredients and % of amounts are accurate.  Some vitamin manufacturers, however, do guarantee that their products and labels are accurate  even though they are not required to do so (state that they are guaranteed, accurate, or even be accurate).

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Dee wrote <<   The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. I really don’t know alot about vitamins but there appear to be mixed reviews on whether they are or aren’t good for those with breast cancer. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=11807780&form… b=m&Dopt=r "1: Int J Cancer 2002 Feb 10;97(5):574-9 Oxidant-antioxidant status in relation to survival among breast cancer patients. Saintot M, Mathieu-Daude H, Astre C, Grenier J, Simony-Lafontaine J, Gerber M. Centre de Recherche en Cancerologie, INSERM-CRLCC, Val D’Aurelle, Parc Euromedecine, Montpellier, France. The role of plasma oxidant-antioxidant status in survival after breast cancer surgery was investigated in a cohort of patients (n = 363) hospitalized in Southern France between 1989 and 1992. The median follow-up was 8 years after surgery for histologically confirmed breast cancer. Plasma analyses were performed after diagnosis and before surgery and adjuvant therapy. We found an inverse relationship between plasma lipoperoxides (MDA) and tumor size at diagnosis, together with higher lipoperoxide levels in node-negative tumors than in node-positive ones (TNM). The longitudinal approach revealed an increased risk of recurrence for patients with plasma lipoperoxides in the highest tertile of the sample (RR = 2.1, 95% CI 1.1-4.0). In addition, the risk of recurrence increased (RR = 1.7, 95%CI 1.0-3.0), after adjustment for the known prognostic factors (TNM), for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels of over 22 micromol/l. The risk of breast cancer death was twice as great for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels above this value. Excesses of plasma lipoperoxides and vitamin E appear to be factors in poor prognosis for breast cancer-specific survival (OVS) and disease-free survival (DFS), respectively, independent of tumor characteristics at diagnosis. Several hypotheses are advanced to explain the possible role of plasma vitamin E as a factor in poor prognosis for survival. Copyright 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc. MeSH Terms: *       Adult *       Aged *       Aged, 80 and over *       Antioxidants/metabolism* *       Biological Markers/blood *       Breast Neoplasms/surgery *       Breast Neoplasms/secondary *       Breast Neoplasms/mortality* *       Breast Neoplasms/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/surgery *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/secondary *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/surgery *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Lobular/surgery *       Carcinoma, Lobular/secondary *       Carcinoma, Lobular/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Lobular/epidemiology *       Cholesterol/blood *       Cohort Studies *       Disease-Free Survival *       Female *       Follow-Up Studies *       France/epidemiology *       Human *       Lipid Peroxides/blood *       Longitudinal Studies *       Lymphatic Metastasis *       Middle Age *       Neoplasm Recurrence, Local *       Oxidants/blood* *       Receptors, Estrogen/metabolism *       Survival Rate Substances: *       Cholesterol *       Receptors, Estrogen *       Oxidants *       Lipid Peroxides *       Biological Markers *       Antioxidants PMID: 11807780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

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Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind? Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

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Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind?

Totally blind. No clues at all. No-one knows. As I said, it might not be related but the co-incidence at my age might be significant. As you said, it’s interesting Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

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My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression. If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do. In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.  If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression.

Um. I -think- I understand some of that … If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do.

Mine was ER+, I -think- that’s comforting … In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.

As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen. If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction.

Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim Jackson One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

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No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

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No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

LOL! I’ll try to remember that Mary

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Yeah, they do call them power surges! Believe me, my power *really* surges, too!! I do take the Vitamin E. 2,000IU per day. It also is supposed to help the mind and is recommended often for Alzheimer’s patients. I must be hopeless: I still have the hot flashes BIG time. My husband has the Alzheimer’s disease and he does seem to be doing pretty well. I, on the other hand, forget where I put my car keys, checkbook, etc. Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges." I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

the reintroduction of estrogen would… for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells) As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen.

Yes. I wouldn’t advocate adding to what you already produce yourself.  That shouldn’t have changed. Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t

Yes, this is the fascinating bit.  I know everyone’s thermostat is different and it depends on body weight and things, and it probably has something to do with fat metabolism, and so does (aromatase) estrogen production, but I can’t quite see the connection all the same. Tim

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I don’t really know very much about this.

Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

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Question:

Everyone on the anxiety board (not moderated) seems to love Klonipin. Why is my doctor so adamant about getting me off it?

"The controversy surrounding benzodiazepine administration and potential abuse or addiction in routine patient use is generally not supported by the available scientific evidence. In a large community study of long-term alprazolam users, Romach and colleagues (1992) found that dosage did not escalate over prolonged use and that most patients used the benzodiazepines as prescribed. In fact, if deviations occured, it was generally that a patient took less than the prescribed dosage." Schatzberg and Nemeroff, 2nd Edition (1998) —- J Clin Psychopharmacol 1992 Oct;12(5):316-21 Characteristics of long-term alprazolam users in the community. Romach MK, Somer GR, Sobell LC, Sobell MB, Kaplan HL, Sellers EM. Department of Psychiatry, University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The widespread use of benzodiazepines remains a source of concern to the medical profession and the general public, especially as newer compounds come on the market. Our goal was to characterize long-term alprazolam users in the community and to determine whether such use represented abuse or behavioural dependence. We conducted three community surveys to learn about the natural history of long-term alprazolam use. Current long-term alprazolam users (those using the drug for 3 months or longer) were recruited on three separate occasions 1 year apart by identical newspaper advertisements in the metropolitan Toronto area. All respondents were mailed a questionnaire with a stamped, addressed return envelope. Our data from 312 respondents show that: (1) the majority of patients have a substantial history of prior medication use for symptom control (65%), (2) dose escalation is not a characteristic of long-term use, (3) patients change their initial pattern of regular use to one of symptom control only when required, (4) most physicians do not discuss discontinuation of the drug with their patients, (5) patients frequently try to stop their drug use (with a median of 2 attempts) and often report symptoms upon discontinuation, and (6) patients perceive a need for medication use and indicate that alprazolam is effective (75%). We conclude that some patients persistently use alprazolam but that this use does not represent abuse or behavioral dependence. PMID: 1479048 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] —- "Addiction and dependence are frequently confused. ‘Addiction’ is hard to define, with little consensus on what it means, and in fact is not even defined as a condition in the DSM-IV. ‘Addiction’ usually refers to a behavioral pattern of drug abuse characterized by overwhelming involvement with use of a drug (compulsive use) and with the securing of its supply and by a high tendency to relapse after discontinuation. The term ‘addiction’ is frequently employed by those who are not experts in psychopharmacology when ‘dependence’ is what they mean. ‘Dependence’ is a physiological state of neuroadaptation produced by repeated administration of a drug, necessitating continued administration to prevent the appearance of a ‘withdrawal syndrome’. ‘Dependence’ is a term that is not frequently used outside of psychopharmacology but in fact is a key feature of many antihypertensive medications, hormones, and other treatments throughout medicine. Thus several antihypertensives can produce ‘rebound’ hyptertension, worse than the original blood pressure elevation, when suddenly discontinued. These patients are not ‘addicted’ to the blood pressure medications although they are ‘dependent’ on them. ‘Withdrawal’ is the term for the adverse psychological and physiological reactions to abrupt cessation of a dependence-producing drug." Essential Psychopharmacology, 2nd Edition (2000), Stephen M. Stahl, published by Cambridge University Press (Dr. Stahl is a PhD and MD, and is a Professor of Psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego. He has conducted numerous research projects awarded by the National Institute of Mental Health, the Veterans Administration, and the pharmaceutical industry. Dr. Stahl is an internationally recognized clinician, researcher, and teacher in psychiatry with subspecialty expertise in psychopharmacology.) Quoted from "Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View", by William Kernodle, M.D. "Our society appears to have a phobia concerning benzodiazepines.  I believe this fear started many years ago when Valium was prescribed for minor anxiety and patients were not made aware of the potential for developing physical dependence.  It is physical addiction that most patients worry about with a benzodiazepine.  I believe *addiction* refers to a severe form of drug abuse in which the individual craves a substance despite negative consequences and needs more and more for the same effect.  I do not think that patients with panic disorder crave the benzodiazepines for their effect or frequently develop physical tolerance (with the possible exception of substance abusers).  It is possible for patients to develop *physical dependence* on the benzodiazepines when used at moderate to high doses over months or years.  However, this simply means that the benzodiazepine has to be tapered slowly rather than stopped abruptly to avoid having a withdrawal symptom" (p 115). — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I have been taking Effexor XR 150 mg for about two years.  About 7 months ago I started taking Klonipin .5 as needed because Buspar wasn’t helping.  As far back as I can remember, I have been hypersomnolent and self-medicated, sort of, with coffee to stay awake.  About 2 months ago I saw my MD and told her I’d like to get off the coffee so I’m not in the bathroom every 5 minutes and she put me on Adderall to stay awake — I had already had two sleep studies with no narcolepsy, etc. but for some reason — anti-depressants, etc. I am always sleepy.  Even as a child I could sleep 12, 15 hour stretches. Question:  I went to a new pdoc the other day who insisted I get off the Klonipin because it is very sedating and habit forming and potent.  She made me taper.  At the time I was taking about 1 mg per day, but have taken up to 4, with the okay of MD, on occasion.  I tapered down to .25 mg and am anxious with the Adderall now, which makes sense, but if I don’t have some type of stimulant in my system I am sleepy, period.  I concentrate so much better WITH the Klonipin.  The Adderall, for me, doesn’t really help my concentration.  i take Adderall twice a day because even the extended release capsules wear off for me. Everyone on the anxiety board (not moderated) seems to love Klonipin. Why is my doctor so adamant about getting me off it? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I went to a new doc once and he told me that I was addicted to clonazepam and must immediately start tapering off it. That was my last visit with that doctor.  He was a rigid-minded, benzo-phobe who cared more about his seats at a basketball game than he did about me. I’ve been taking clonazepam for 6 years now.  I’ve actually lowered my daily dose from 4 mg in the beginning to a maximum of 2 mg per day. Find a new doctor.  Run from this new one.  Run very fast and don’t look back  :  ) Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Question:

SMELL THE FART!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

Response:

Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

| | | Oh jesus H christ… | | | What they need is a pill to cure farting and burping… | | |

| | WASHINGTON (Reuters Health) – The US Food and Drug Administration | (news – web sites) has given the drug company Pfizer Inc. the go ahead | to market its antidepressant Zoloft (sertraline) for the treatment of | premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), a severe form of premenstrual | syndrome, the company confirmed on Friday. | | | Following an FDA announcement of the approval, a Pfizer spokeswoman | told Reuters Health that a corporate statement would be made on | Monday, but that the firm would not provide details before then. | | The FDA said it had approved two supplementary new drug applications | for Zoloft as a PMDD treatment: one for daily dosing and one for use | only during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. | | Zoloft is already indicated for depression, panic disorder, | obsessive-compulsive disorder and posttraumatic stress disorder. | | The FDA noted that the first drug to be approved to treat PMDD was Eli | Lilly’s Sarafem (fluoxetine), which contains the same active | ingredient as the company’s antidepressant Prozac. That approval was | issued in July 2000. | | SkyePharma, which has developed a controlled-release version of | GlaxoSmithKline’s antidepressant Paxil (paroxetine), has said that it | hopes to see that drug approved for PMDD this year and launched for | the indication in 2003. | | | | | — | "Caution, the surgeon general has found that psychiatric | treatements cause poverty and mental illness."

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. What you are describing is very familiar to me.  I’ve experienced these strange "electric shock" symptoms whenever _withdrawing_ from a trial of a serotonergic antidepressant (i.e. most recently Effexor,  previously the SSRI’s Luvox and Prozac, and long before that the MAOI’s Parnate and Nardil).  Effexor is the worst for producing this due to the fact of its very short half-life compared to other serotonergic antidepressants (i.e. its blood levels fall off rather quickly following the last dose, resulting in withdrawal symptoms even when taking it regularly as prescribed).  Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one). [BTW:  My current regimen includes immediate release Effexor (~65 mg/day) plus Luvox (175 mg/day).] Sodah

The roller coaster affect was minimized by the XR form for myself. Effexor is an SNRI. Some basic differences in how it works, compared to SSRI’s. zszszszszszszszsZZZZZZZZIT!!!  (goes my brain as I type)

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Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one).

I’ve been on Effexor XR for about a year now, and I still get brain shivers (I call them "Effexor buzzies").  They’re the most pronounced when I’m overtired, late with a dose, or stressed. I also have great difficulty in reaching orgasm.  This has gotten progressively worse over the course of the year.  Last summer I was up to 450 mg/day.  I gradually reduced this to 225 mg/day, but the orgasmic difficulty hasn’t really changed. — Bluebird

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I have been both on the Effxor and Effxor-XR and have had no trouble in the sexual area. I am able to function normally. Maybe this makes me not normal. Oh joy something else to be paranoid about. Dose is 75mg 3 times daily – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I also have great difficulty in reaching orgasm.  This has gotten progressively worse over the course of the year.  Last summer I was up to 450 mg/day.  I gradually reduced this to 225 mg/day, but the orgasmic difficulty hasn’t really changed. — Bluebird

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I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right?

Sorta. I spend a lot of time in bed. I doze off pretty quick. Lots of ‘waking’ type dreams though. Those ones where you are dreaming, then ‘wake’ up. Only to find you are only dreaming you are awake? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so.

The electrical firings started when I discontinued Zoloft 4 or so years ago. I figure I’ll have them several times a day for the rest of my life. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’

Yah. I also get a very strong ’startle’ reaction with an adrenaline rush when I hear any sudden noise or see something sudden. But, I got those when I was really depressed in the hospital before any meds had really taken effect. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of.

Maybe they’ll go away, eventually. I remember self-medicating with speed back in the late 60’s when it was legal. It took over 5 years to get over the ’speed rushes’ and the ’speed’ smell on my skin when I got angry. The drug DID work. For awhile. But coming down…. yechhhh… bad scene. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped.

I’ve got it pretty severe now. I just crawl into bed. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug.

This sounds kinda familiar. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life.

All in all, my experience with meds in the last 5/6 years has not been good. I suppose they kept me alive. But sort of like a vegetable. Somehow, I lost myself. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

I had a doc that denied that any of these affects could be caused by the meds. I checked it out in the PDR, photocopied it and showed it to him. He just shrugged and said "Oh." I don’t trust the majority of GP’s to have real knowledge of these meds. I suppose they just push the one the latest drug rep was in to see them about. Back to bed….

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. A testosterone level of 495 ng/dL is, indeed, in the normal range, but not exceedingly high. The normal range is 300 to 1000. At a level of 300, the desire for sex will happen for most guys about once every two weeks to a month. At 1000, very other day, or even daily. The effects vary. Some men get more libido out of a lower level than others. Testosterone level also varies as much as 100 ng/dL over the course of the day. It is highest in the morning and lowest in the evening. If the blood for your 495 was drawn in the morning, then it is even closer to the lower limit of normal. As for it wearing off, that is normal. Injected testosterone peaks in 2-3 days, then tapers off straight-line over the following two weeks. At the end of two weeks, it is gone. Guys on shots usually have a shot every two weeks. I self-inject, so I give myself half the dosage, but weekly. This way the shots overlap and I get a more even level. My doc says he prescribes testosterone replacement therapy for any patient who tests below 300, and even for a few above that. My advice is to find a different doc. Part of the problem is that your doc is a "family doctor," not a urologist. Family practitioners frquently don’t feel sexual dysfunction problems are worth treating. Sometimes I wish I could let them see what it is like to lose sexual desire. They’d change their tune fast, I bet. A urologist will take your problems seriously. It may be caused by more than just lack of testosterone. A urologist will know more options and therapies. Get to one right away and get your life back. NOTICE: The e-mail address is deliberately incorrect. Make the ISP read "spiritone.com" by adding an "e."

John, thanks for the info. Incidentally, the testosterone test was given in the morning. Hey, Iv’e got another question for you. How much does testosterone cost? Is it much cheaper to self inject and are doctors reluctant to allow their patients to do this? Thanks Mike

Response:

This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!

Not really, most people do just fine on it. Hardly any side effects at all and any there are clear up shortly after the medication is stopped. People with severe side effects are in the minority; people with long-lasting side effects are rare.

Response:

I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned

everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head Something’s wrong with the doc. If the shots returned you to normal, this should be looked into. When did he take the test? Your testosterone levels are higher in the AM. I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out

to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike Good. Please let us know what happens. — Jerry Sturdivant

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

Sounds a lot like LSD flashbacks (knowledge from my hippy days in the 60’s) -Fred-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later. Sounds a lot like LSD flashbacks (knowledge from my hippy days in the 60’s) -Fred-

Funny ou should say that because I heard somewhere that this stuff is derived from hallucinagenic drugs.

Response:

[...] I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

What you are describing is very familiar to me.  I’ve experienced these strange "electric shock" symptoms whenever _withdrawing_ from a trial of a serotonergic antidepressant (i.e. most recently Effexor,  previously the SSRI’s Luvox and Prozac, and long before that the MAOI’s Parnate and Nardil).  Effexor is the worst for producing this due to the fact of its very short half-life compared to other serotonergic antidepressants (i.e. its blood levels fall off rather quickly following the last dose, resulting in withdrawal symptoms even when taking it regularly as prescribed).  Have you tried Effexor-XR (i.e. Effexor in extended release form)?  Though I haven’t tried it myself, I’ve read good reports on the net from people who switched to it from the immediate release form because of side effects (such as this one). [BTW:  My current regimen includes immediate release Effexor (~65 mg/day) plus Luvox (175 mg/day).] Sodah

Response:

snipped I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. Why have you stopped the Effexor cold turkey?

Prescription ran out. If your doctor has suggested this, or it’s your own idea, then you are following the advise of a mediocally incompetant idiot! Please seek competent medical avise asap.

I’ve kinda given up on the medical profession. I’ll just weather this out. So far so good. I am not working at the moment so I don’t have to be physically and mentally functioning. Sleep works OK. If it’s your own idea, then you need to re-think this. Apart from the psychological damage this may be causing, there is a risk of physical complications.

Possibly. But right now, all I want is not to have any meds in me. Ian

BTW, I DO NOT recommend doing what I am doing to anyone else.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday.

A testosterone level of 495 ng/dL is, indeed, in the normal range, but not exceedingly high. The normal range is 300 to 1000. At a level of 300, the desire for sex will happen for most guys about once every two weeks to a month. At 1000, very other day, or even daily. The effects vary. Some men get more libido out of a lower level than others. Testosterone level also varies as much as 100 ng/dL over the course of the day. It is highest in the morning and lowest in the evening. If the blood for your 495 was drawn in the morning, then it is even closer to the lower limit of normal. As for it wearing off, that is normal. Injected testosterone peaks in 2-3 days, then tapers off straight-line over the following two weeks. At the end of two weeks, it is gone. Guys on shots usually have a shot every two weeks. I self-inject, so I give myself half the dosage, but weekly. This way the shots overlap and I get a more even level. My doc says he prescribes testosterone replacement therapy for any patient who tests below 300, and even for a few above that. My advice is to find a different doc. Part of the problem is that your doc is a "family doctor," not a urologist. Family practitioners frquently don’t feel sexual dysfunction problems are worth treating. Sometimes I wish I could let them see what it is like to lose sexual desire. They’d change their tune fast, I bet. A urologist will take your problems seriously. It may be caused by more than just lack of testosterone. A urologist will know more options and therapies. Get to one right away and get your life back. NOTICE: The e-mail address is deliberately incorrect. Make the ISP read "spiritone.com" by adding an "e."

Response:

snipped I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day.

Why have you stopped the Effexor cold turkey? If your doctor has suggested this, or it’s your own idea, then you are following the advise of a mediocally incompetant idiot! Please seek competent medical avise asap. If it’s your own idea, then you need to re-think this. Apart from the psychological damage this may be causing, there is a risk of physical complications. Ian Phobias:  Carnophobia- Fear of meat.

Response:

I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day.

Man, are you all right? Some people cando that, others can’t. What if the degree of side effects is related to a degree of permanent damage? I had fewer side effects by going down slower, 1/4 pill, ~ 10mg, 9.375 or so. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated.

Those are the ‘lightning storms in the nervous system.’ Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now.

For me, they continued at that level for months following discontinuing the medication. I still get around the same amount but they are far slighter in sensation, like weaker, sort of. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back.

I got that while on the drug too but after discontinuing that stuff all stopped. However, I still get the out-of-phase effect where it feels like some sort of body sense is coming in behind the actual movements of the body, no way to describe it really. I suspect it may be related to what gave the spaced-out and dissociative senses while on the drug. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

I’m never going to take that stuff or anything like it ever again in my life. When I first started getting and reporting the weird side effects, only days after starting the drug at 37.5mg, the ‘expert’ psychiatrist prescribing the shit told me that was normal and that it would go away once I stabilized at a therapeutic level. I listened to the jerk even after the side effects worsened, all the way to 300mg and me being almost unable to function from the goddamn side effects, so then I decided enough was enough, took me months to get down, lowering the dose made the side effects worse. Now I still have some over two years later.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

Hi Mike: Well, here is an oppinion, but I have done alot of research on Effexor before I had been put on it. I had been on, then off it..horrible side effects..then on it as of last month, and will most likely be coming off of it due to a notice in weight gain after longer term use. Out of all the research I did on Medline, I found no studies indicating a "permanent" problem with sexual dysfunction. I had combed through well over hundreds of studies. I had also checked all of the archives of dejanews, and never came across this effect. Your best bet, as you said, would be to see a urologist. I know it took me some time to get my sexual "urge" back after I went off it the first time, and even much of that was "physical". You are right..sex and even the "urge" are wonderful things..and you have every right to get it back. Odds are, with some help, you will get back to "normal" no problem at all. Best of luck… James — Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.     —Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, D.C. Neurosis is simply THE human condition; some just haven’t realized it yet. Anon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily. This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!  It also sounds like you shouldn’t be driving with side effects like those you describe. Have you talked to your doctor about this? -Fred-

I’ve only driven a few times in the last three months and not far. Best way to describe the feeling is I’m like a passenger and the driver is gradually crossing the line without seeming aware. After a time, I realize he isn’t going to turn so I have to reach over and turn the wheel for him. Yes, I’m staying off the roads right now. hehe I’ve given up on the pdoc/doc thing. Just obtained the repeats for the meds in the last 2 months. None left now. I’m thinking of going it alone like I have most of my life. Long, involved story here and I don’t really want to get into it on the ng. The effexor was effective in lifting me off the 2 lowest steps of a 10 step ‘depression’ continuum. But it left me stranded on the 8 th. for 6 months. Right now I have the emotions of a rutabaga. Very flat. (Still kept my humour though. It’ll stay with me to the end… even if it is gallows humour… hehehe) I’m sleeping about 16 – 18 hours a day in 2 to 4 hour segments now to get over the worst of the effects.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. <snip <snip A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back.

This is extremely dangerous from what I know. My pdoc told me that Effexor has the strongest withdrawal symptoms on the market! You should ALWAYS wean yourself down slowly. To go from 300mg to nothing cold-turkey is very dangerous! I was taking 450mg/day and my pdoc had me reduce my dosage very slowly….decreasing by 75mg every 3 or 4 days. PLEASE be careful and check with your doctor…I can’t believe that he or she would have told you to quit cold turkey! K "x-no-archive: yes" followed by a blank line: tells some newsgroup archiving websites like DejaNews to not archive posts. This statement at the top of the post helps to protect people’s privacy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits. I’m in my third day of effexor withdrawal, cold-turkey from 300mg/day. I’m experiencing ‘electrical flashes’ that come in groups of two but mostly three. They are accompanied with a "sssshhhttt" sound in my ears, an explosive fragmenting of vision ‘behind my eyes’, a metallic taste in my mouth and a total body twitch. They build up very quickly and I have the sensation that my head is about to explode in tremendous pain. But, because of the extreme rapidity, this ‘pain’ can be tolerated. Sometimes these flashes spread throughout my body in a nervous chain reaction. Mostly down my left side. They cause me to twitch like the reflex test on knees. If they are strong enough, I lose my balance or drop things. I get about 50 of these a day now. The main continuous side effect can be described as the feelings you get after an ‘adrenalin rush’. An uncontrollable, internal shaking (vibrating) and an ‘on edge’ feeling. Also moments of ’spaced out’ feelings. A physical disconnection from reality. I notice this the most when driving. Almost hallucinatory. When I realize this happening, I have to consciously force myself back. From previous experience, this will take about 3 months to subside to once or twice daily.

This Effexor sounds like some pretty mean stuff!  It also sounds like you shouldn’t be driving with side effects like those you describe. Have you talked to your doctor about this? -Fred-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head

   When a doctor says "it’s in your head", that’s your cue to say, "*You* are just bullshitting me with that crap because you don’t know what my problem is or how to solve it, but still want to collect a fat consultation fee for not doing anything. Fuck off, and have a rotten day."    Find another doc. which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

 innate need of most humans to have an Alpha leader tell them what to do.  They like the idea of creating one via an "election". It’s a vicarious,  Frankenstein-esque dependancy enablement syndrome. — Bill Kasper =====

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P.S. I let another pdoc to prescribe it anyway and lasted 2 weeks with the effects. Yuck. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson.

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I had a pdoc say he did not want to put me on it because studies are showing "permanent" rises in blood pressure. I do not have high blood pressure now. I hope that is not "permanent" condition with you. major bummer. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson.

Response:

Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect.

I also have lingering side effects from Effexor. The ones I have involve the strange internal sensations that some people report while on Effexor: so-called ‘brain shivers,’ the lightning-storm-along-the-nervous-system shock sensations and being out-of-phase with body movement. There is also some synesthesia triggered by hearing which causes physical sensations and odd visual phenomena. All of these effects began with Effexor, intensified while changing the dose, up or down, and have been persistent for over two years since taking the medication. Sometimes I am really pissed-off about it. I wonder about lawsuits.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

Dear Mike, I’m sorry to hear about this. That is – literally – no fun at all. I haven’t heard this before about Effexor but I know that with Paxil there is this possibility that side effects like  anorgasmia or libido-loss may stay for an indefinite amount of time after the med is stopped. I have nothing to say about this except that I hope it will pass. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi, I am a 32 year old male in good physical shape who was on the antidepressant effexor for about a year on a dosage of 75 mg per day. I have been off the medication for about two years now, but I have had to deal with a lingering side effect. When on the med I had lost libido and my penis was numb as if someone had given it a shot of novacaine. I could achieve orgasm only after extreme effort and with no good feeling along the way. That’s why I discontinued the med. After two years, I haven’t regained the sensitivity (my penis doesn’t feel totally numb, but it is no more sensitive than let’s say my leg and not in a sexual way at all) and I can only achieve orgasm after much effort, with no good feelinguntil that instant. There is no longer any lustfullness or desire to have sex and no tension or release during. However, I have no problem getting an erection. I received a shot of testosterone from my family doctor which returned everything to normal for several days, but then wore off. My doctor will not give me any more shots because test showed my testosterone level in the normal range, 495 ng/dl, so he thinks it’s in my head which I know it isn’t (even in my darkest depths i could rely on a little sexual activity to make me feeL better). What I would like to ask the group is has anyone had any similar experiences and if so what can be done to help the problem, if anything? I am going to see a urologist on Thursday. Thanks for taking the time out to read this and thanks for any replies.Mike

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Question:

Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

Ingrid, most of your questions I can’t answer and wouldn’t try to for the group but I cn tell you that most of my health probloms seratonin plays a major factor in.  Don’t knpe if that helps or not Karen

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(blushing from ignorance) what is geographic tongue? Jane in AZ

Jane, I had never heard of geographic tongue either, so I looked it up in my handy-dandy Taber’s Medical Dictionary: One possessing white, raised areas resembling mountain ranges on a relief map.  Areas consist of heaped-up epithelium surrounding areas of atrophy.   The next entry after geographic tongue was hairy tongue. Hmmmm, hairy tongue vs. geograpic tongue!  Both seem kind of nasty, in my book. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ingrid, I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. But I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue (anyone have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold fingers or toes……any connections ya think?

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: Ingrid, : I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I : figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. : But : I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue (anyone : have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold : fingers or toes……any connections ya think? Patty,  I assume if you have Reynauds that you can’t take any vasoconstrictors? diane : Hi group, : the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite : a : few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are : migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our : systems : weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other : illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to : migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers : in : a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. : Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I : don’t need names for this, just illnesses. : What do you think? : Ingrid : —

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Patty, I have had that too since I was a kid.  I’ve found that acidophillus and b6 usually take care of it.  In my experience it’s caused by an lask of intestinal flora. diane

: No blushing necessary!  Every so often I get inflammations on my tongue, " : raised margins" on the surface that are red and sore.  they are patches : that are in (sort of) weird shapes.  Per Dr. and Med. book: no known cause : or treatment!  :) Sometimes irritated by some foods, but seems to be : cyclical in some way.  My sister has it too as well as migraines, both : things we just discovered about eachother (we are 15 yrs apart) So that’s : geographic tongue.  Just try and look that up on the net and see what kind : of sites you end up in! : Patty : : (blushing from ignorance) what is geographic tongue? : Jane in AZ : – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – -

: Ingrid, : I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I : figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. : But : I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue : (anyone : have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold : fingers or toes……any connections ya think? : —

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And do they turn dead white?  It’s often just one or two of them.  My husband calls it the finger of death, it’s so white against the others. Hurts too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – patty, i  also have the ice cold fingers and/or toes.  i also experience fingers and/or toes that loose their feelings but hurt like the devil… ronnie queen of hugs                

Response:

No blushing necessary!  Every so often I get inflammations on my tongue, " raised margins" on the surface that are red and sore.  they are patches that are in (sort of) weird shapes.  Per Dr. and Med. book: no known cause or treatment!  :) Sometimes irritated by some foods, but seems to be cyclical in some way.  My sister has it too as well as migraines, both things we just discovered about eachother (we are 15 yrs apart) So that’s geographic tongue.  Just try and look that up on the net and see what kind of sites you end up in! Patty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (blushing from ignorance) what is geographic tongue? Jane in AZ – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – - Ingrid, I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. But I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue (anyone have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold fingers or toes……any connections ya think?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid It is not uncommon for migraineurs to have lower than normal vitals. This is not usaully a medical problem, per say.  My normal BP is 90/60 and my body temp usually runs 95-96 degrees.  For years I thought this was an oddity isolated to just me, but when I first came to this ng, I found others with the same low numbers. Mary

Yes, and just off the top of my head, motion sickness, depression, OCD, else? Sage

Response:

patty, i  also have the ice cold fingers and/or toes.  i also experience fingers and/or toes that loose their feelings but hurt like the devil… ronnie Hey Gang,

So do I, they call it Raynouds (spelling?_) Disease. My Sister, Barb, the one who was Murdered in a Domestic Violence, had it also. About 10 years for me now. Hurts like a Son of a Gun, and I have gotten the ulcers when it has gotten real bad. One consolation, it keeps my mind of my Migraine ! Ha HA queen of hugs

– LOVE AND HUGS             NOT DRUGS AND SLUGS          Carol Lee                   Dozer MOM of    Dutchess     10 year old Viszla’s                   Lil’ Lady                                &                      Jer’Mia       18 year old Baby Kitty                                   St. Paul, Minn. http://www.goldengate.net/~efolsom/clee.htm

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snipped

 So that’s geographic tongue.  Just try and look that up on the net and see what kind of sites you end up in! Patty

I think I am too afraid to look it up on the web!  (You know how often one can find those unpleasant sites by accident! Jane in AZ – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – -

Response:

patty, i  also have the ice cold fingers and/or toes.  i also experience fingers and/or toes that loose their feelings but hurt like the devil… ronnie queen of hugs                

Response:

(blushing from ignorance) what is geographic tongue? Jane in AZ – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – - – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ingrid, I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. But I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue (anyone have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold fingers or toes……any connections ya think? Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

Response:

Ingrid, I nver get sick.  I nver get the flu. ( I cannot spell I have a HA) I figure some deal was made that I suffer w/migraine, so that’s enough. But I do get IBS when stressed out.  Oh! and I have geographic tongue (anyone have that?! please!) and reynauds disease (sp?) which is ice ice cold fingers or toes……any connections ya think? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

Response:

Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

It is not uncommon for migraineurs to have lower than normal vitals. This is not usaully a medical problem, per say.  My normal BP is 90/60 and my body temp usually runs 95-96 degrees.  For years I thought this was an oddity isolated to just me, but when I first came to this ng, I found others with the same low numbers. Mary

Response:

I have no other major illnesses. Migraine is it. I’m active physically, and mentally. I try to fill my no pain days and enjoy them. I figure migraine may take 1 to 6 days at a time away from me, but it will not have the other days. Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

Response:

Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

  Hi Ingrid, Don’t think I am unusual (except for being unique like all humans) but only have migraine. Don’t seem to have any other chronic conditions and have otherwise been healthy all my life and am still fighting fit and functioning on all levels at 66. Isn’t it possible that these other conditions, digestive, visual, auditory etc are all part of a wider migraine syndrome. Is there a specific thing called migraine, or is it an umbrella term which still defies close definition? Don’t have the answer..just ask the question!!

Response:

Hi group, the question about acid reflux got me thinking. It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Are migraineurs as a group more susceptible to other problems? Are our systems weakened by the chronic pain so that we are not able to fight off other illnesses as well? Or are other illnesses present that pre-dispose us to migraines? If you all are interested, I’d be willing to compile answers in a spreadsheet format. If you feel that’s not appropriate let me know. Otherwise, e-mail me personally and I’ll get going on this. Obviously, I don’t need names for this, just illnesses. What do you think? Ingrid

Response:

I guess we never think about what could be happening (at least my eyes have been opened!)  I have a HIGHER than normal temp (at 99 always – just call me Major Major Major, for those of you who read Catch 22)

LOL!  Your promotion is in the mail <evil grin   (btw, Closing Time’s pretty good too) <ramble I was working in the enrolment office here one holidays, & checking off official exam results against claimed exam results (on student’s applications) up came the name "Irving Washington" — his ethnicity was Yossarian, his permanent address was 22 Catch St, Heller, Auckland, and he planned to live in an air force tent during the year… No-one would believe me when I said HOAX!!!  They printed off an ID card & everything, waiting for him to turn up and verify his identity. But they sent his application off to the accomodation office, with a note saying present accomodation should suit him fine Then at the end of the year the lecturer of one of the courses he’d "enrolled" in had notices up asking him to get in touch ASAP, because he’d been handing in work – and getting it marked! – but wasn’t on the official class list! </ramble , but lower than normal BP (at 90/60 on a good day).  I also have cold hands always, even in the 122 degree heat Phoenix is famous for, and even with the raised body temp.

My BP’s always pretty low (dizziness, etc.), temperature I don’t know about.  And I’d have to convert it to fahrenheit anyway, wouldn’t I? butting (t’ lazy) — Bryce Utting                          http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting                 the cross before me, the world behind me                              no turning back

Response:

It seems to me that quite a few in this NG have other medical problems besides migraines. Ingrid

Hi Ingrid, I can count on one hand the number of times I got a flu/cold, my blood pressure is ok, colesterol ok, sugar in the blood ok, my teeth are all here and in good shape, all organs seem to be in good shape, I even sleep well. If I can point one thing that should be better it would be me constipation, but I’m taking care of that too. Soooooooo…… I iz a migraineur who just have migraines. peace Mario Daily Hemicrain – My Migraine Homepage http://www.bekkoame.or.jp/~kukobuka/migraine.html

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Yes, and just off the top of my head, motion sickness, depression, OCD, else? Sage

Yep Sage – I get the depression – the sulphue allergy and the anxiety Anne (UK) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Wow, I never even thought about others having these things. I just always knew my blood pressure is low and so is my temp. I rarely get a fever, and my feet are always cold. Melissa got me slippers that have gel packs you heat in the microwave and then put in a pocket in the slippers. My feet ’still’ get cold! Cyndi

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It is not uncommon for migraineurs to have lower than normal vitals. This is not usaully a medical problem, per say.  My normal BP is 90/60 and my body temp usually runs 95-96 degrees.  For years I thought this was an oddity isolated to just me, but when I first came to this ng, I found others with the same low numbers. Mary I too have a lower than norm temp. Mine is usually around 96. And I rarely get a fever, even when I have the flu. I may feel sweaty and cold, but the thermometer says I don’t have a fever. Strange. Take care, Jackie k

Response:

I guess we never think about what could be happening (at least my eyes have been opened!)  I have a HIGHER than normal temp (at 99 always – just call me Major Major Major, for those of you who read Catch 22), but lower than normal BP (at 90/60 on a good day).  I also have cold hands always, even in the 122 degree heat Phoenix is famous for, and even with the raised body temp. (learning as I go along!) Jane in AZ – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – -

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mary I too have a lower than norm temp. Mine is usually around 96. And I rarely get a fever, even when I have the flu. I may feel sweaty and cold, but the thermometer says I don’t have a fever. Strange. Take care, Jackie k

Response:

It is not uncommon for migraineurs to have lower than normal vitals. This is not usaully a medical problem, per say.  My normal BP is 90/60 and my body temp usually runs 95-96 degrees.  For years I thought this was an oddity isolated to just me, but when I first came to this ng, I found others with the same low numbers. Mary

I too have a lower than norm temp. Mine is usually around 96. And I rarely get a fever, even when I have the flu. I may feel sweaty and cold, but the thermometer says I don’t have a fever. Strange. Take care, Jackie k

Response:

Thanks for the input. Gathering dribs and drabs of info in a textfile right now. Once I have a significant number of responses, I’ll put in in spreadsheet format or whatever format you all can read. Ingrid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes migraines major depression, chronic (over 10 years on meds) seizure disorder chronic sinusitis benign essential tremor ibs pms arthritis in hands, maybe raynouds wonder if this helps….sounds like an interesting undertaking, ingrid…let us know what you discover. tn Things are not always what they appear to be unless they appear to be hopeless & futile. x-no-archive: yes

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I wanna meet this guy!!!! name "Irving Washington" — his ethnicity

was Yossarian, his permanent address was 22 Catch St, Heller, Auckland, how funny – the TV series had an episode of Hawkeye making up a guy – I am surprised he didn’t use something like this (can’t remember the name of the guy he made up off hand) My mother grounded me when she caught me reading the book – and I was nineteen years old!!! Bryce you are a card!  (an ACE!!!!) Jane – - I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am – -

Response:

Hi!  In regard to your poll of what we migraineurs might have in common, I normally have very low blood pressure– 90 over 60. Also cold hands and feet most of the time. Also very touchy digestive system, particularly my stomach. Barb

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