Question:

I know that not gargling after taking inhaled steroids can lead to problems. I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? Thanks

Response:

I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection?

What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

I’m really not sure what kind of infection, I just know that my throat doesn’t feel right and my Asthma gets worse. The doctor says it looks really red and that I could have an infection or just allergies. They usually just give me antibiotics, I don’t think they’ve ever taken a culture.  I asked the question only because the problem seems to occur around the same time I’ve had this kind of activity and I wanted to know if there could be a connection.  Maybe next time I’ll insist that the doctor take a throat culture.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

Thrush? Now there’s something for the weekend sir!! OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH !!!!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

I’m really not sure what kind of infection, I just know that my throat doesn’t feel right and my Asthma gets worse. The doctor says it looks really red and that I could have an infection or just allergies. They usually just give me antibiotics, I don’t think they’ve ever taken a culture.  I asked the question only because the problem seems to occur around the same time I’ve had this kind of activity and I wanted to know if there could be a connection.  Maybe next time I’ll insist that the doctor take a throat culture.

    Well, the, uh, feminine area is lined with a mucous membrane, just like the throat.  So if you’ve a sore throat, it could be, uh, spread to your paramour.  The other possibility is that your paramour might have a relatively benign infection and be spreading it to you.  Exercise your judgment.

Response:

culture.    Well, the, uh, feminine area is lined with a mucous membrane, just like the throat.  So if you’ve a sore throat, it could be, uh, spread to your paramour.  The other possibility is that your paramour might have a relatively benign infection and be spreading it to you.  Exercise your judgment.

Light Soor is not uncommon for the Vagina, but makes normally no problems May be, there was a transfer, but I thing, this is not a problem of your sex praxis. Fungus is ubiquit

Question:

I am new to the group, and have a family of asthmatics.  I am 29-years old and was finally diagnosed with asthma about 2-years ago.  I have a just turned 4-year old who has had asthma since he was 6-months old, a 7-year old who was recently diagnosed, and a 5-month old baby who has already contracted RSV and been on albuterol nebulizer treatments. I have had very nasty side effects with Prednisone and Prednisolone oral steroids.  I also have a hard time taking Decahedron.  The only oral steroid I have been able to tolerate is a Medrol dose pack.  Has anyone one had similar problems? I would also appreciate any information available on RSV and its effects. Thank you.

Response:

I am new to the group, and have a family of asthmatics.  I am 29-years old and was finally diagnosed with asthma about 2-years ago.  I have a just turned 4-year old who has had asthma since he was 6-months old, a 7-year old who was recently diagnosed, and a 5-month old baby who has already contracted RSV and been on albuterol nebulizer treatments. I have had very nasty side effects with Prednisone and Prednisolone oral steroids.  I also have a hard time taking Decahedron.  The only oral steroid I have been able to tolerate is a Medrol dose pack.  Has anyone one had similar problems? I would also appreciate any information available on RSV and its effects. Thank you.

The oral steroids commonly used for asthma are prednisone, prednisolone, and methylprednisolone (Medrol). I think the side effects are similar. I think that Decadron (dexamethsone) is not usually used for asthma due to its more severe side effects. The oral steroids are used for ‘burst’ doses for asthma exacerbations, and for very Severe asthmatics. Many asthmatics who formerly took oral steroids for maintenance have been able to switch to the new high-strength steroid inhalers like Flovent and Pulmicort, which results in a much lower total dose of steroid since it goes directly to the lungs. Oral steroids have many side effects including osteoporosis, high BP, psychological effects, etc. Info on RSV at www.rsvinfo.com (drug co. site) http://www.rsvinfo.com/sequelae/sequelae.html "Recurring Respiratory Problems   Reactive airway disease and pulmonary function deficits are   two conditions known to strike those who have suffered   from RSV bronchiolitis in their first year of life, even in   children whose initial illness did not require   hospitalization.10 Wheezing and asthma have also been   identified in children 10 years after suffering an RSV lower   respiratory tract infection in infancy. 11 This susceptibility   to asthma and wheezing may have been caused by the early   infection damaging the growing lung. However, genetics   may also play a role in predisposing patients with RSV to   the development of recurring respiratory problems.11   Two major hypotheses have been proposed to explain the   association between lower respiratory tract infections such   as RSV during infancy and subsequent respiratory   abnormalities such as asthma and chronic obstructive   pulmonary disease.10   These two possibilities, however, while contrasting, are not   necessarily mutually exclusive.   According to various prospective studies involving   children who had experienced RSV infection as infants, the   following RSV sequelae have been reported11-21:         recurrent wheezing; cough         asthma; impaired oxygenation         pulmonary dysfunction         bronchial reactivity         acute respiratory disease         hyperinflation         variable airways obstruction   RSV Risk Factors   It is important to note that there is a broad spectrum of RSV   infection ranging from mild to severe to fatal, and it is not   known whether RSV sequelae follow mild RSV infections, as   most prospective studies follow cases of infants who were   hospitalized for moderate to severe RSV infection.11-21   In hospitalized patients with moderate to severe cases of   RSV bronchiolitis infection, physicians should consider   early treatment with an antiviral agent to reduce the risk of   long-term sequelae.   Those infants and young children most at risk for severe   RSV infection include:         Those with a history of prematurity         Infants less than six weeks of age         Those with congenital heart disease         Those with chronic lung conditions including         bronchopulmonary dysplasia and cystic fibrosis         Those who suffer from immunodeficiency (e.g., HIV,         AIDS, cancer, transplants)   Can Early Treatment Make a Difference?   If viral infections early in life cause long-term sequelae, RSV   can be considered a prime candidate by virtue of high   incidence in early infancy.10 But is there anything that can   help decrease the risk of long-term sequelae? Some studies   confirm a decreased overall incidence of bronchitis in   ribavirin-treated patients but do not maintain that   subsequent diagnosis of reactive airway disease is reduced   due to such antiviral treatment.22 However, recent   prospective and retrospective studies23-25 indicate that   aggressive medical intervention and early treatment with a   broad-spectrum antiviral may reduce the morbidity from RSV   disease.     AUTHORS: Fergie et al at Driscoll Children’s Hospital in              Corpus Christi, Texas     METHODS: Assessed the pulmonary health status at two years following             hospital discharge of 30 ribavirin-treated infants with RSV             bronchiolitis (1994-1995 RSV season)             Compared this status with 28 matched infants whose             treatment at the same hospital excluded ribavirin      RESULTS:           For Full Prescribing Information For VIRAZOLE

Question:

Dear Joan, I am a Candida biologist. Candida albicans, a dimorphic fungus with yeast and hyphal (like other fungi) phases, is the major causative agent of thrush, followed by some other Candida species. WHile all organisms grow on sugars, Candida albicans thrives well on serum (which does have glucose in it of course as well) and on human tissues. Indeed if you stop cells from making the hyphal form, they are no longer infective. Serum in the absence of added sugars, promotes this invasive hyphal form. I think adding more sugar may stimulate the yeast form a bit-( hmm I never tried that experiment – adding more glucose to the serum plates). Candida is not like bakers yeast, and bakers yeast does not encourage the growth of Candida albicans. You can also consume sugar in normal quantities (if you’re not diaetic of course). The books that deal with candida cleansing diets are not supported by scientific studies. The scientific Candida community has analysed the theories and treatments proposed in these books (diets and the claims they make) They are unfounded. I have looked the studies up on medline myself- and I see that the authors of several books on the subject have made huge assumptions based on very very little data, and actually have thwarted the truth. A complete if not outdated book on Candida infections which even reviews the book "the yeast connection" is "Candida and Candidosis: A review and bibliography" (1989-I think) by FC Odds who was at Leeds in the UK for many years and is now at Jaansen (ie also own J&J) in belgium. He refuses to write a new edition. But his book  remains the most complete and unbiased medical book on the subject. It is out of print. I do have a photocopy of it, or libraries should be able to get you a copy. Medical Schools should have a copy or access to one. Every single study on Candida up to the pub. date is covered in that book- very factual. I have looked over all of the alternative suggestions proposed on this thread. None of them have proven to my knowledge. Definitely do not use any mouthwashs or treatments that kill the bacteria in you mouth. The bacteria help you to fight off thrush.  Gingivitiis is bacterial in origin- do not use washes that treat this. I even asked my pharmacist to confirm this when I had recurrent thrush. Lots of healthy garlic has been shown to kill candida and bacteria- but yikes (yes the scientific community acknowkedges this)- but actualy the studies are in vitro. No proof that consuming garlic helps -to my knowledge. Unfortunately, steroid inhalers I believe affect the same immune cells in the mouth that keep Candida at bay.  I had to switch from flovent (a stronger steroid) to azmacort (which does not work as well for me). Fungal infections are stubborn. 1) you want to treat the underlying cause if possible causes can include: being on antibiotics, diabetes immune disorders (i.e.AIDS) treatment with immunosuppressive agents (ie. us asthmatics) Chemotherapy dentures 2) You need to stick to the antifungal treatment until the thrush clears up, and also solve the underlying cause or it will just recur.  Why? The antifungals being used, do not kill the candida too well, but do stop them from growing (they can’t make their cell membranes). There may be some nongrowing cells that stick around and thus the infection can recur. You need to make sure those immune cells in the mouth are ok. So rinsing with water and using a spacer are critical with the steroid inhalers. Good Luck! Chilla ps. you could also have a drug resisitant strain of candida in your mouth . You could try other classes of antifungals. Nystatin vs. the azoles (like clortrimazole). These belong to different chemical classes

Response:

I didn’t intend to sound critical.  Just wanted to add to the pool of information.   SJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

joan, i don’t know of anything else that you can take that would help prevent thrush. I do have a lot of patients on prednisone and steroid inhalers, but i have not seen as much problem with thrush as it is in your case. Just make sure that you don’t have diabetes or steroid induced hyperglycemia (elevated blood sugars). yatin j patel md http://md4lungs.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

– Yatin J Patel MD http://md4lungs.com If you have asthma, this is your home. Join Dr. Patel every wednesday 7 PM Indiana Time for online chats. Before you buy.

Response:

* also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.

I do not think that this is accurate. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I had thrush and my doctor told me that it was probably a result of the inhaled steroids rather than oral (I was on flovent too.)  What you need to do is rinse your mouth and throat after using your inhaler so the steroid is not sticking to the membranes in your mouth. Hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

i work in a health food store, and have tried a few natural remidies…(with all the other prescriptions i’m on, i don’t want another!) here are a few suggestions that i have found to work.. *Acidophilus.. i prefer PB8 but any with 10 billion or more active cultures is good *gargling with tea tree oil mouthwash or vinegar and water.. i actually do both sometimes, after i use my inhalers and after i brush my teeth. * also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.  these are more preventitive than a cure… but i have found that it does help, i have very infrequent problems now instead of every month or so… good luck!

Response:

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  

Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

I’m just guessing here but would yogurt (With live cultures) help?  How about a vinegar and water mouthwash?  Just trying to remember what the natural remedies for yeast problems are. While they don’t usually work well as a cure, maybe as a preventive? Jo An Firey * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug.

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  Also, Colgate Palmolive’s "Peroxyl" (nonprescription) is a very good oral antiseptic, with the benefit of being pleasant-tasting, especially effective when used right before bedtime, after you’re brushed and flossed.  You might also want to seriously consider treating yourself to Teledyne Water Pik’s "SENSONIC" tooth brush, an excellent product, leagues ahead of any ordinary toothbrush, even the other mundane electric toothbrushes. I used to really suffer with constant bouts of thrush but no more after adopting the above regimen, a much better alternative to guzzling liter after liter of Nystatin, BLECH! Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

Question:

as long as there is crusting, the hole will enlarge.speak to your doctor about using an antibiotic ointment and I recommend you start this soon. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

I just saw my GP, who got me into the ENT. Like yours, my perforation was small, I was told that with such an allergic nose the surgery would probably not be successful because of a continuously irritated nose, and result with a dying/dead surgical flap, resulting in a bigger hole. Putting in a button , would mean making the hole bigger right now. My concern was that the allergist took me off all steroid nasal inhalers, and I have polyps and severe ragweed & perfume problems that hit me in the sinuses. With a 40 year history of problems in the ragweed season, I was concerned. So for now, doing nothing for the hole is best.  Having the hole there, risks getting larger with drying edges and constant airflow (inside my nose swells shut and then I wake myself up whistling…. yuck) risks making the hole larger. I will work on making saline sprays a habit, but vasoline makes my problem worse, ie on my mouth, vasiline helps for a few hours, but then my skin sloughs off in sheets of dead skin.  The same thing kinda happens in my nose, short relief, but then the whole nose situation actually gets worse instead of better. But, at least I now know the  problem is not due to a growth or cancer , and they actually incouraged me to take my nasal steroid, but to be careful to try to spray the outer walls or up, but avoid the septum. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings-I can sympathize with your aliment.  I also have a perforated septum. My pulmonologist discovered it.  He said don’t worry about it as is small also about 1-2mm.  He suggested placing vaseline in the nostril to keep the nose moist.  I have had not problems so far and would not even know it was there if it was not for the pulmonologist.  The surgery to repair seems to be very painful and a long recoup time.  Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

Response:

Because of allergies and asthma and vasular motor rhinitis, I have for years  used a nasal steroid spray, which helped a lot. For a long while, one nostral had a nosebleed / scab problem, but it was minor and much less troublesome than the major sinus problem and the nose swelling shut every time I layed down as was happening before this.  I didn’t notice any structure change. but……. About 6-7 weeks ago, I was put on a prednisone taper ( 18 day, starting at 60mg, with 2X  normal dose220 flovent) , and the nose went nuts. The allergist told me to stop the nasacort and just use nasachrom. So I did.  had 2 weeks of rebound sinuses, but now just have the problem of the nose swelling shut when I lay down. The nose stopped bleeding and scabbing, but about 3 weeks later, my nose would whistle a clear tone whistle in the morning, and late at night, and even waking me up in the middle of the night!    An indentation started at the bottom of one nostral, but I couldn’t see a perferation in the septum. Now, with my nose supposedly healed ( ie no more bleeding or scabbing) the indentation in the floor of the nostral ( ~12 mm up) is deeper! And , now there is a sizable ~ 1 mm hole in the septum,  I can see light shine through  the well defined hole on both sides. I’m so allergic to ragweed that my GP suggested I start up the aquous form of Nasacort  in August, but, but that was  several weeks ago and now I’m scared to, though I know I might be miserable with out it. *  Is it a bad sign for the tissue corrosion to continue after stopping the pred and the nasacort? …. ie is something more serious possible? * Is there anything too bad about having a small hole about 10-14 mm up your nose… besides the whistling I have been to the clinic soooooo much this year with asthma, I feel like an employee!  Just went to the Weekend walkin clinic last week with an ankle swollen up like a football  from an allergy to some kind of insect bite. Should I make an appt for something no one can probably do anything about? I kinda know I should, yet I guess I just need a kick in the pants or some reassurance. Trying to avoid the hypochondriac label….. Lou Ann

Response:

Greetings-I can sympathize with your aliment.  I also have a perforated septum. My pulmonologist discovered it.  He said don’t worry about it as is small also about 1-2mm.  He suggested placing vaseline in the nostril to keep the nose moist.  I have had not problems so far and would not even know it was there if it was not for the pulmonologist.  The surgery to repair seems to be very painful and a long recoup time.  Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

Response:

Question:

After reading your post on the allergy group a while back I tried adding a couple ml of hydrogen peroxide to a half bottle of Ocean salt water spray. This worked fine and seemed to really help. However after I ran out of this bottle and mixed up a batch myself, I either added too much hydrogen peroxide or my sinus infection was already well established as the second bottle seemed to irritate my already inflamed sinuses. I’ll try again with a weaker formulation after my sinuses heal. Thanks for the suggestions. — "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"   Thomas Jefferson "CanDo" <rasm1…@bellsouth.net

wrote in message

news:rcwic.2918$7a5.2178@bignews6.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

After suffering with multiple sinus infections, year after year, for decades, I experimented with flooding my sinuses with a mixture of diluted 3% hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt. I kept my forehead down for quite a while, hoping that the anti-infective mixture could get to the infected area(s) within my sinuses and nasal passages.  . It worked! I have been sinus infection free for about 30 months.  . I have fully documented my experience and how I did it at Healthboards.com. There are posts over there by people who have tried my "upside down sinus flooding", and by who don’t think that it is a good idea. I have no connection at all with Healthboards. I consider it to be the best facility for discussing  health problems on the Internet.  . To find out more, select one of the following links:  . Here is the link to a discussion about the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding": . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210  . Here is the link to the detailed documentation of the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding" and also some discussion:  . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=139765

Response:

NorthShoreCEO wrote:

What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on tissue?  Does anyone know?

If you believe that the decomposition of h2o2 produces free radicals and you believe that free radicals can cause cancer then you may be inclined to believe that cancer could be a long term effect. I certainly wouldn’t take a chance being so close to the brain.

Response:

"knob" <h…@dontemailme.com

wrote in message

news:Ouajc.10$Q5.7@fe39.usenetserver.com…

NorthShoreCEO wrote: What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on tissue?  Does anyone know? If you believe that the decomposition of h2o2 produces free radicals and you believe that free radicals can cause cancer then you may be inclined to believe that cancer could be a long term effect. I certainly wouldn’t take a chance being so close to the brain.

3% Hydrogen Peroxide has been used for decades by millions of people, for cuts and for gargling, to prevent infection and to help remove mucus and phlegm. It is readily available at most super markets, discount stores, retail stores, etc. There are no health warnings on the bottles. If you feel that it is a cancer risk, you should get in touch with the proper authorities and warn them.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CanDo wrote:

"knob" <h…@dontemailme.com wrote in message news:Ouajc.10$Q5.7@fe39.usenetserver.com… NorthShoreCEO wrote: What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on tissue?  Does anyone know? If you believe that the decomposition of h2o2 produces free radicals and you believe that free radicals can cause cancer then you may be inclined to believe that cancer could be a long term effect. I certainly wouldn’t take a chance being so close to the brain. 3% Hydrogen Peroxide has been used for decades by millions of people, for cuts and for gargling, to prevent infection and to help remove mucus and phlegm. It is readily available at most super markets, discount stores, retail stores, etc. There are no health warnings on the bottles. If you feel that it is a cancer risk, you should get in touch with the proper authorities and warn them.

I didn’t say hydrogen peroxide was a cancer risk.

Response:

"CanDo" <rasm1…@bellsouth.net

wrote in message

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I know that you are looking for more scientific feedback, or feedback from the medical community, but I figured I’d offer my personal experience.

Thanks for sharing your experience.  Yes, I was looking for more scientific feedback, but also for use on longer term use than 30 months.  With all the research I do, I’ve not been able to find anything substantive.

Response:

Hydrogen peroxide can’t be too awfully toxic. I used to got to an alt. med MD who also did IV chelation therapy and I saw many patients in his office do large IV drips of hydrogen peroxide solution and this wasn’t the 3% variety. I think they were doing the IVs to protect their heart. I can’t remember the specific rational because it’s been 10 years or so. I’m sure a Google search would tell you whatever their theory was behind ingesting hydrogen peroxide. I remember some of the patients also drank hydrogen peroxide. — "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"   Thomas Jefferson "NorthShoreCEO" <NorthShore…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:Mp7jc.39999$w96.2823833@attbi_s54… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on tissue?  Does anyone know?

Response:

Before western culture learned of it, 3,000 years ago the Yoga did rapid in and out sniffing of saline. They did it very rapidly at a low pressure. Which, essentially is what the Hydro Pulse does . This rapid in and out did stimulate cilia and did remove dust and pollen. Try to teach this today ! good luck. Most patients this gentle low pressure means about 70 PSI which will damage the nose. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

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spam2death wrote: I’m currently on my second round of antibiotics in this years edition of my never ending battle against chronic sinus infections. I’m sorry to hear that.  I hope that throwing more and more antibiotics at the problem isn’t the only thing your doctors are doing for you.  The most important thing your doctors should be doine for you, is trying to figure out why you keep getting recurrent sinus infections in the first place.

I’ve had horrible allergies my entire life. I currently treat them with Flonase, Astelin, Nasal Crom, Singulair and whatever else is necessary. I’ve also taken desensitization shots several times and taken enough allergy pills to fill a 55 gallon drum. Once any of my sinuses or eustachen tubes clogs securely, an infection won’t be far behind.  I don’t even remember large portions of junior high because I was so zoned out on various allergy pills or sick with repeated sinus infections. My problem with sinus infections is that I probably wait much too long before beginning antibiotics and the infections are usually well advanced. Augmentin made me have diarreha so I was only on it two days. I’m taking Tequin now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

What did people do for chronic severe sinus infections prior to the availability

of

antibiotics? IIRC:  nasal irrigation and surgery.  Pretty much what they do now! The first diagnoses of chronic maxillary sinus infections were first made around the 17th century.  And over time, better and better surgical procedures were devised.  (The Caldwell-Luc surgical procedure, for many years the state-of-the-art in sinus surgery, was invented in the late 19th century.) In the 18th century, doctors realized that some sinus infections were caused by dental abscesses and could be helped by extractions of the upper molars.  Nasal irrigation was employed for the first time in the 18th century too. I remember seeing a couple of pictures of the elaborate mechanical apparatuses they used for nasal irrigation, before the invention of electric irrigators.  One of them was a big tank that was fastened high on the wall, way above your head.  You put the hose into your nose, turned the crank, and gravity and siphoning pulled the water down into your nose and thru your nasopharynx. — Steven L.

I use saline nasal spray 4-6 times a day. It seems to help. Having nasal surgery scares the poop out of me as a friend went into the local hospital as an outpatient to clear a minor nasal blockage and immediately came down with incurable MRSA and also strep in his sinuses. He had to have repeated major surgeries to try and cure the infection. The infections and related pain eventually cost him his job and career. I’d probably have to be fighting a malignancy before I’d risk surgery, but if I further lost my ability to breathe, I might change my mind. Thanks for the medical history lessons and suggestions.   spam2death

Response:

spam2death wrote:

I’ve had horrible allergies my entire life. I currently treat them with Flonase, Astelin, Nasal Crom, Singulair and whatever else is necessary. I’ve also taken desensitization shots several times and taken enough allergy pills to fill a 55 gallon drum. Once any of my sinuses or eustachen tubes clogs securely, an infection won’t be far behind.  I don’t even remember large portions of junior high because I was so zoned out on various allergy pills or sick with repeated sinus infections. My problem with sinus infections is that I probably wait much too long before beginning antibiotics and the infections are usually well advanced. Augmentin made me have diarreha so I was only on it two days. I’m taking Tequin now.

Have you seen an ENT?  If so, what did he say?

I use saline nasal spray 4-6 times a day. It seems to help.

You might find that irrigation works better than spray. I use the Grossan irrigator religiously.  It works better for me than any nasal spray.

Having nasal surgery scares the poop out of me as a friend went into the local hospital as an outpatient to clear a minor nasal blockage and immediately came down with incurable MRSA and also strep in his sinuses.

Hmm, this is a new one for me. What the heck is "incurable MRSA?" Was this one of those brand-new strains of MRSA that’s even resistant to vancomycin? Not all hospitals are as careless as the one you describe.  Many of us have had sinus surgery and we didn’t get MRSA.  But we didn’t go to just any surgeon and just any hospital.  We chose carefully. — Steven L.

Response:

"NorthShoreCEO" wrote: "What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on

tissue?  Does anyone know?" <================================

I’ve flooding my sinuses with a mixture of Hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt for about 30 months, an average of less than twice a month. Total flooding time averages about 15 minutes. After decades of sinus misery, my sinuses have never been better. I’ve also use electro-acupuncture to treat my sinuses, and watch my diet, and I have made changes to my environment, so I can’t attribute my good sinus health to just the flooding. So far, I have not had any bad effects from the contact of the peroxide with my sinuses. I know that you are looking for more scientific feedback, or feedback from the medical community, but I figured I’d offer my personal experience. ===

"Hydrogen peroxide is water with extra oxygen attached. The formula for

water is H2O, and for hydrogen peroxide is H2O2. Another name for hydrogen peroxide would be hydrogen dioxide." <===

Response:

What is the long term effect of hydrogen peroxide on tissue?  Does anyone know?

Response:

"spam2death" wrote: After reading your post on the allergy group a while

back I tried adding a couple ml of hydrogen peroxide to a half bottle of Ocean salt water spray. This worked fine and seemed to really help. However after I ran out of this bottle and mixed up a batch myself, I either added too much hydrogen peroxide or my sinus infection was already well established as the second bottle seemed to irritate my already inflamed sinuses. I’ll try again with a weaker formulation after my sinuses heal.  Thanks for the suggestions." << <=============================

When I’ve used too much peroxide, it has caused my sinuses to swell shut for about three straight days. I am careful not to use more than one part peroxide to 10 parts water. Even that much used to sting my sinuses, but not any more. If the powerful anti-infective mixture of peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt can get to the source of infection, or infected material, then it can fight the infection and help to prevent recurring infections. If it can’t get to the source of the infection, then the benefits are limited. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

— "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"   Thomas Jefferson "CanDo" <rasm1…@bellsouth.net wrote in message news:rcwic.2918$7a5.2178@bignews6.bellsouth.net… After suffering with multiple sinus infections, year after year, for decades, I experimented with flooding my sinuses with a mixture of

diluted

3% hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt. I kept my forehead

down

for quite a while, hoping that the anti-infective mixture could get to

the

infected area(s) within my sinuses and nasal passages.  . It worked! I have been sinus infection free for about 30 months.  . I have fully documented my experience and how I did it at

Healthboards.com.

There are posts over there by people who have tried my "upside down

sinus

flooding", and by who don’t think that it is a good idea. I have no connection at all with Healthboards. I consider it to be the best

facility

for discussing  health problems on the Internet.  . To find out more, select one of the following links:  . Here is the link to a discussion about the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding": . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210  . Here is the link to the detailed documentation of the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding" and also some discussion:  . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=139765

Response:

I’m currently on my second round of antibiotics in this years edition of my never ending battle against chronic sinus infections. What did people do for chronic severe sinus infections prior to the availability of antibiotics? Anyone have a brief explanation of archaic treatments used for sinus infections used in the years before antibiotics? Any medical historians in the group? thanks,    congested to death but still curious — "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"   Thomas Jefferson

Response:

After suffering with multiple sinus infections, year after year, for decades, I experimented with flooding my sinuses with a mixture of diluted 3% hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt. I kept my forehead down for quite a while, hoping that the anti-infective mixture could get to the infected area(s) within my sinuses and nasal passages.  . It worked! I have been sinus infection free for about 30 months.  . I have fully documented my experience and how I did it at Healthboards.com. There are posts over there by people who have tried my "upside down sinus flooding", and by who don’t think that it is a good idea. I have no connection at all with Healthboards. I consider it to be the best facility for discussing  health problems on the Internet.  . To find out more, select one of the following links:  . Here is the link to a discussion about the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding": . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210  . Here is the link to the detailed documentation of the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding" and also some discussion:  . http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=139765

Response:

spam2death wrote:

I’m currently on my second round of antibiotics in this years edition of my never ending battle against chronic sinus infections.

I’m sorry to hear that.  I hope that throwing more and more antibiotics at the problem isn’t the only thing your doctors are doing for you.  The most important thing your doctors should be doine for you, is trying to figure out why you keep getting recurrent sinus infections in the first place.

What did people do for chronic severe sinus infections prior to the availability of antibiotics?

IIRC:  nasal irrigation and surgery.  Pretty much what they do now! The first diagnoses of chronic maxillary sinus infections were first made around the 17th century.  And over time, better and better surgical procedures were devised.  (The Caldwell-Luc surgical procedure, for many years the state-of-the-art in sinus surgery, was invented in the late 19th century.) In the 18th century, doctors realized that some sinus infections were caused by dental abscesses and could be helped by extractions of the upper molars.  Nasal irrigation was employed for the first time in the 18th century too. I remember seeing a couple of pictures of the elaborate mechanical apparatuses they used for nasal irrigation, before the invention of electric irrigators.  One of them was a big tank that was fastened high on the wall, way above your head.  You put the hose into your nose, turned the crank, and gravity and siphoning pulled the water down into your nose and thru your nasopharynx. — Steven L.

Response:

Question:

Hithere… for anyone who cares to know.  I am doing remarkably well on day 2 at 25% of my regular 50 mg Zoloft dosage.  I will remain at this dosage until after my menses have passed as PMS can be hellish. Happy as a Clam… PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

Response:

I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

I am reevaluating my need for 5-htp at all.  Kava does seem to be working for me.  I actually only need it on days 1-3 (about) after downgrading my Zoloft dose.  After that, I seem to level out naturally, except for the use of sublingual melatonin.  I think that working only 20 hours a week really halps too, though I can’t do this forever. I have forwarded your message to my nutritionist.  I am particularly interested in what she has to say about the peelings.  The brand of kava I use is Gaia Herbs.  I’ve used other supplements they manufacture with positive results. I have heard of the anxiety rebound effect of kava though, as of yet, it’s not happened to me.  It may be because I don’t use it all the time, only while transitioning to a lower dose ssri. My most annoying withdrawal symptoms now is nausea.  It only lasts for a couple of days and it’s mild, but it makes eating difficult.  The other side of that is that I eat less.  Since I gained 30 pounds on Zoloft, I’m not complaining too loudly.  I anticipate it stopping after I come off the ssri completely. I have lost 10 of the 30 pounds in the last 6 weeks.  Every time I downgrade my dose I lose 3 pounds in the first 36 hours!  Woo-Hoo! PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

 Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time.

That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

Thanks for posting the info, Tono.  I just try to collect info on kava whereever it may be!

Response:

LM, Thank you for your information.  I am working with a nutritionist who has an MS.  She has informaed me that the blood levels of 5HTP are a concern only for those very few with serious metabolic issues.  I am quite healthy in that regard.  She assures me that in her years of working with the CDC she participated in clinical studies on the use of 5htp and tryptophan and found that both amino acids are quite safe in healthy individuals.  She has several patients who are taking up to 250 mg of 5htp daily and have for a year or better with no problems at all.  In my opinion, the ssris are a much greater risk for me personally since there are no clinical studies on the effect ssris in ppl taking them over one year.  The side effects of ssris have been devastating for me.  For those with metabolic issues it should not be taken lightly though.  Thank you.  I will keep the group informed on my progress. PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management. I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

Response:

Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.

Well, I’m glad it’s helping.  Just be sure not to over do it.  As far as the diagnosis, I know what you mean.  My Dr. never gave me an actual diagnosis, or I would have 10 or 20 of them!  He only tries to work with all my various symptoms. And like Margrove said, BE CAREFULL! Tono – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  PW What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

Response:

What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.

Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.  PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

Response:

Question:

Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

make a pro and con list for both jobs write it down so you can evaluate and re-evaluate it

Response:

Hi, Mac, Only you can make this decision.  As Margrove stated make a pro and con list – see which weighs out in your favor… Remember, you have visited the new environment which in turn means you have walked through the door (literally)… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

Question:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

Response:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

geno, big pupils is a normal side effect. no worries ) there’s not much you can do about it. ~*~nwysca~*~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

Question:

I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened.

Thankyou Cherly I am not sure why you posted this but I am glad you did.  I have posted some off my hell here and revealed a bit more on anx/pan.  One day I hope to be able to reveal all off me but I am not ready for that yet.  A big milestone for me was putting my pic on the ASAP gallery. I love your posts and your very naturalness, your pure humanity. Simon

Response:

guarding angel. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. Cheryl love, you *have* come a very long way indeed…..you’re a real survivor and such a sweet and witty and lovable person. It’s a joy to know you. Our learned friend Margrove – sometimes it *must* be said – is a true marvel. He helped so many here both in public and in private email… we had *professionals* here before but never like this, engaging into ASAP dynamics and giving so much without ever being patronizing and you can even have fun with him. I’ll stop here because otherwise he might get too big for his boots <g but I think we all should realize what a true *treasure* we have for a friend…. Philip — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Oh Cheryl honey, I never knew things were that bad for you.  I commend you on your openness and courage.  These anti-benzo people have no idea how they are effecting us.  Right now I am tapering off Effexor XR with the help of a Benzo, if I didn’t have my Xanax I would be in the ER every night. Love Ya Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Hi, Dot, Squid – YUK!  but I have always said whatever it would take to overcome pd would be something I would do – even if it meant squid…  You know what I mean. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – {{{{{Dot}}}}}} Could you imagine ingesting squid when the PA hit? GAG. Thank you Dot, coming from you makes this special.  And you know what, all of you could do what I did, it took a lot of praying, yakking away on here and of course, bugging Margrove to death.  :o) Love Cheryl — TC3 If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it.  Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened.

Cheryl love, you *have* come a very long way indeed…..you’re a real survivor and such a sweet and witty and lovable person. It’s a joy to know you. Our learned friend Margrove – sometimes it *must* be said – is a true marvel. He helped so many here both in public and in private email… we had *professionals* here before but never like this, engaging into ASAP dynamics and giving so much without ever being patronizing and you can even have fun with him. I’ll stop here because otherwise he might get too big for his boots <g but I think we all should realize what a true *treasure* we have for a friend…. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Rita, From what I understand you start with a small dose – perhaps 1 Milky Way a day for 2 or 3 days then up the dose until you are feeling human again (Cheryl, Snickers can be used in place of the Milky Way)…  Unfortunately, you must do this for the rest of your life if you like it or not! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Before you buy.

Response:

Cheryl, Your post is very sad but I appreciate the honesty and trust you have shared with us.  I am sorry you had to deal with such a difficult and ugly period in your life.  I totally agree, if it weren’t for meds I might as well not be here…  Life is easier to live with the meds but deep down inside of me everyday I wish I didn’t have to take them but it is a small price to pay for some happiness.  You have beenthrough SO much and I am proud of how you have handled everything life has sent your way. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

– TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured | this misery, I would eat it three times a day. | IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even | go there!  I think we are all unique, some can | do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. | If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive | behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend | six hours trying to get into my shower and probably | spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever | leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will | stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to | try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am | willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been | through too much in the physical sense too and | with that came issues of dying and other life | threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep | me from living and not dwelling on dying  then | so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine | and VERY addicting…  :o) | | — | TC3 Cheryl:

No squid? LOL  I hate it myself… I choose to take the benzo’s because they are giving me a vacation from the terror inside and giving my pdoc time to address the causative issues.

Exactly!  I am not seeing anyone right now…but I think the whole being sick thing and my daughter being sick thing was my triggers for this problem…. Don’t worry about the dirty mouth, I am sure your teeth are clean, and sometimes, that’s the only way to get the point across.

I brush frequently and floss like a maniac.  Happy Harry Drug stores(in Del) have this floss that lasts for like twenty years and the box is the SAME size as the normal stuff…and I floss constantly~ My mom is always saying, "you are such a nice funny girl, do you have to say fuck all of the time?" I can’t help it.  It’s like saying "the" or "of"  you know? Damn. Hell. Shit. Poop. Kaka. Dirt. Mud. Manure. Peepee. Air Pollution. Rat shit, damnit, crap.

Reminds me of a George Carlin cheer we use to say in nursing school, Rat shit bat shit dirty old twat(I wince here) 69 assholes tied in a knot hurray lizard shit FUCK~ All of the above are only apart of how I feel about this disorder and the pain it has caused millions.

Ugh, I hate this more than I hated dialysis, believe me. Rock on girl!

Like a rolling stone, You too ~~~~ Keep the fun on ASAP, it keeps our sanity.  Love Cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David

Response:

Chocolate is addicting…… )) Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Response:

I just went to the store for milk and got two big ones…(Snickers that is! )  Love Cheryl — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no disorientation (unless you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Response:

OH Rita, one big fat Snickers oughta do it!! Cheryl  xo — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Before you buy.

Response:

Seeing him in person was quite a treat…I never laughed so hard. — TC3 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love George Carlin.  He is the Gary Larson of comics. David

Response:

{{{{{Dot}}}}}} Could you imagine ingesting squid when the PA hit? GAG. Thank you Dot, coming from you makes this special.  And you know what, all of you could do what I did, it took a lot of praying, yakking away on here and of course, bugging Margrove to death.  :o) Love Cheryl — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

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It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it.  Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3

~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated

idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL….this is too good not to print up.  You are so special and I love your sense of humor.  This is definitely going in my Favorites File. Love, Rita

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no

disorientation (unless – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way,

OH YEA!!!!  LOL Di

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| Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no disorientation (unless you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Response:

~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  

Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

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I love George Carlin.  He is the Gary Larson of comics. David

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sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Yea, what a bunch!!!  Just kidding.  This is a great bunch we have here. Hugs, Di

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Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

Response:

| If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured | this misery, I would eat it three times a day. | IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even | go there!  I think we are all unique, some can | do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. | If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive | behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend | six hours trying to get into my shower and probably | spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever | leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will | stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to | try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am | willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been | through too much in the physical sense too and | with that came issues of dying and other life | threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep | me from living and not dwelling on dying  then | so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine | and VERY addicting…  :o) | | — | TC3 Cheryl: I choose to take the benzo’s because they are giving me a vacation from the terror inside and giving my pdoc time to address the causative issues. Don’t worry about the dirty mouth, I am sure your teeth are clean, and sometimes, that’s the only way to get the point across. Damn. Hell. Shit. Poop. Kaka. Dirt. Mud. Manure. Peepee. Air Pollution. Rat shit, damnit, crap. All of the above are only apart of how I feel about this disorder and the pain it has caused millions. Rock on girl! David

Response:

If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Response:

sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m a new poster to this list and I am hoping that someone out there can give me some advice on Effexor. I take anti-depressants for chronic pain.  I just recently switched from Serzone to Effexor.  The Serzone was working well, but I was having trouble concentrating. I have been taking the Effexor for two weeks.  When I first started taking it, I was taking 75 mg. per day, but I had terrible side effects.  I had panic attacks, blurred vision so bad I couldn’t drive, twitching/shaking, and more. I’ve cut the dosage down to 37.5 but I’m still having some sleep disturbances and difficulty achieving orgasm.  Other than that, I’m actually feeling pretty good on it?  Does anybody have any input on this? Or had any experiences with side effects?

Been on it about 9-10 months.  Have had mostly good to say about it (but the first couple of days were tough).  The side effects have waned considerably without excessive loss of efficacy.  I still don’t sleep well though unless I take my nighly Ambien.  I don’t know if that particularly side effect will ever go away.  Given that I already had problems with insomnia… But by and large it’s been great for me.  The only times that it seems to not keep me from slipping are hormone upheaval times and I’d have to guess by your address name that this won’t be a problem for you.  (too much anyway). Take care and good luck, KCat — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

I take anti-depressants for chronic pain.  I just recently switched from Serzone to Effexor.  The Serzone was working well, but I was having trouble concentrating. I have been taking the Effexor for two weeks.  When I first started taking it, I was taking 75 mg. per day, but I had terrible side effects.  I had panic attacks, blurred vision so bad I couldn’t drive, twitching/shaking, and more.

I am currently taking Effexor myself at 150mg a day with no severe problems. It took me over two weeks to adjust to it though.  The very first day I took the medication was not very pleasant, as I recall.  I had all kinds of side effects for the first two weeks.  These side effects grew less with time. I’ve cut the dosage down to 37.5 but I’m still having some sleep disturbances and difficulty achieving orgasm.  Other than that, I’m actually feeling pretty good on it?  Does anybody have any input on this? Or had any experiences with side effects?

Effexor can cause both of the problems you describe.  In my case, my last dosage is at 4 PM so I do not have problems sleeping.  Maybe you should consult your doctor over the times you take the medication.  Effexor can cause anorgasmia and other anomalies of that kind (I know!), but except in severe cases this should not be a severe problem (in some ways it can be viewed as an advantage!). If you need more details feel free to mail me at (remove the —-)

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I have been taking the Effexor for two weeks.  When I first started taking it, I was taking 75 mg. per day, but I had terrible side effects.  

My doctor started me out at 37.5 per day for a few days, then I went up to 75. Now, I’m at 150. Of the four ADs I’ve been on, Effexor has probably been the least annoying. I’ve cut the dosage down to 37.5 but I’m still having some sleep disturbances and difficulty achieving orgasm.  

Effexor tends to be stimulating. My pdoc had me go with the last dose about 4 PM and that helped. (Actually, as long as I don’t take it immediately before going to bed.) Other than that, I’m actually feeling pretty good on it

Charlie’s Sneaker Pages: http://sneakers.pair.com/ Best Value in Airplanes: http://www.boeing.com/

Response:

Hi, I’m a new poster to this list and I am hoping that someone out there can give me some advice on Effexor. I take anti-depressants for chronic pain.  I just recently switched from Serzone to Effexor.  The Serzone was working well, but I was having trouble concentrating. I have been taking the Effexor for two weeks.  When I first started taking it, I was taking 75 mg. per day, but I had terrible side effects.  I had panic attacks, blurred vision so bad I couldn’t drive, twitching/shaking, and more.   I’ve cut the dosage down to 37.5 but I’m still having some sleep disturbances and difficulty achieving orgasm.  Other than that, I’m actually feeling pretty good on it?  Does anybody have any input on this? Or had any experiences with side effects?

Response: