Question:

If Singulair doesn’t cause these deadly heart problems, why are they concerned with trying to unethically and illegally obtain the medical records of victims, to the point of harassing the victims’ doctors ?

Is that you Bruce?      X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 920345515 204 206.86.233.5      Newsgroups: alt.support.asthma      As I had suspected, based on an investigation I did months ago, the      research done in Canada exonerating zafirlukast and Zeneca’s Accolate      from ANY responsibility in causing Churg-Strauss Syndrome has now been      proven to be false.      X-Trace: news.truenorth.com 916339707 5574 170.200.189.101 (14 Jan 1999 18:48:27 GMT)      Organization: True North      Newsgroups: alt.support.asthma      Is this the same standard pharmaceutical safety testing that allows      approved drugs to kill a minimum of 100,000, or at most 190,000, people      a year?      Why do you assume that if they cannot provide evidence that their      products are safe, that their customers are automatically risking their      lives? Could their medicines be based on a couple of thousand years of      use with few side effects? Or could they be killing 100,000 customers a      year?      How long has Singulair been on the market? How many people in this      newsgroup report side effects?      X-Trace: news.truenorth.com 906385984 581 170.200.189.101 (21 Sep 1998 13:53:04 GMT)      Organization: True North      Newsgroups: alt.support.asthma      After six weeks on Singulair I started getting more and more fatigued      every day until my prescription ran out  and I missed a couple of days.      I immediately felt better. So I started taking Singulair again and      getting fatigued again. After a more couple of tests of taking and not      taking Singulair I stopped. BTW it work well on my asthma.      Now I take Accolate and it makes me tired also, but only half as much. Send complaints about misuse of the Kosovo Privacy Project to: Or fill out the Anonymizer Help form:      https://www.anonymizer.com/3.0/help/support.cgi

Response:

If Singulair doesn’t cause these deadly heart problems, why are they concerned with trying to unethically and illegally obtain the medical records of victims, to the point of harassing the victims’ doctors ? Naysayers will claim they are so very concerned about the satey of their drug and "their" patients. Doctors are asked to fill out the "anonymous" questionnaire on toxic reactions to this new drug. How anonymous is it if they know who the patients’ doctors are to begin with ? This occurs AFTER the doctors comply: Merck engages in a campaign of telephone harassment of doctors three, even four times, trying to get these doctors to hand over their patients FULL medical histories, without the patient’s consent, and against the code of doctor-patient confidentiality and in violation of the law. Refusals don’t daunt Merck, the company continues to call the same doctors even after repeated refusals to violate their oaths. This message was sent through the Kosovo Privacy Project’s Anonymous Email page at <http://www.anonymizer.com/kosovo. This service was created to facilitate the safe reporting of information from within Kosovo and other troubled areas around the world. There is no way to identify the author. Anonymizer in no way endorses the contents of this message. Please do not reply to this message. It will not go back to the sender.

Response:

Question:

::I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. ::But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. ::I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. ::And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, ::with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. Dear Diana, I hope the Zoloft reduction helps. I agree with Philip in that I don’t understand why nothing more was done at this appt.  You’ve been suffering long enough. (((((Diana))))) Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Diana, I hope this med adjustment is successful for you. Dealing with the death of a loved one takes time.  Your sister was a valuable piece of your life but you will make it through this… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I wish you the very best with this med change, Diana.  I hope you can, somehow, deal with the death of your sister.  I know how close you were and I would feel the same.  Thinking of you.  {{{{{Diana}}}}} Love, Di

My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Diana schreef: My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me.

I wonder why he didn’t talk with you about your medication now instead of postponing it. The same goes for talking about your sister’s death. You were scheduled for aan appointment, weren’t you? Or didn’t he have enough time? Well, you will survive another two weeks but it’s a bit disappointing that nothing was talked about. Maybe lowering ther Zoloft dose is a good idea. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Allen, I’ve never heard of Cymbalta, what’s its closest relative ? Sounds like you’ve tried them all. Good luck my friend. LJ

It’s a new SNRI cooked up recently by those lovely folks at Eli-Lilly that also gave us Prozac. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been prescribed Cymbalta by my MD yesterday. 30mg pills and I am told to increase to 60mg when I feel ready and if I am not feeling any side effects. Yesterday was the first day I was on it and I didn’t have any side effects except for fatique. The Fatique seems less today. Do people think this may possible be a good drug for panic disorder, depression and dysthymia? I’ve been off medication for almost a year, so now I’m on klonopin 1mg 2x a day, along with Restoril 15mg-30mg at night as needed and the Cymbalta of course. Drugs prior to this always seem to work for a few short weeks, but they always poop out. I’ve been on Lexapro, Celexa, Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor XR, Imipramine, Desipramine, and Amitryptiline, Xanax, Valium, Ativan and Provigil for depression and anxiety. I’m just looking for any words of help and information. I hope this drug works out for me as I don’t know what else there is for me to try. I see a psychiatrist sometime this week if she can get me in and I’ll see what she says about the current regimine I am on. Thanks for any ideas and help. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:

Question:

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

" Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence?

Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+.

Susan Love debunks this on her site: http://www.susanlovemd.com/community/flashes/hotflash030725.htm

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.  The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Hi Nana, I don’t know if this is true for all but whenever  I ate foods with sugar I would get an almost immediate hot flash.  Avoiding those foods helped a great deal.  Then, if and when I did get one I tried to ride it through like a wave on the ocean.  Doing that me feel like I had some sense of control and that helped, too. Do hope these are lessened for you—take care…

Response:

I had unbearable hot flashes after CMF-induced chemopause at age 43.  Every 20-30 minutes,  24/7, dripping sweat on the floor….  I tried the yam cream (no help), clonidine patches (wouldn’t stick I sweat so much)- finally my onc tried Effexor XR– I got almost immediate relief (I take 75 mg in the AM)  The major side effect is that it can raise your blood pressure.  I have zero side effects.  jeannette

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.

You are correct; Effexor is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibiter (SSRI).  As with any drug, it may have unwanted side effects, but is generally better tolerated than the tricyclics (which aren’t that bad for many people).  Clonidine (Catapres(R)), an alpha adrenergic blocker usually used for blood pressure control helps some folks, as does Bellergal or similar mixtures, evening primrose oil, and vitamin E.  I think the SSRIs are currently preferred.  Zoloft and Effexor are both good. Both can be associated with either weight gain or loss; Effexor is a little more likely to cause weight loss than gain, while most of the others cause gain more frequently than loss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Thanks for the correction.  I knew when I wrote it that it didn’t look right, and should have known better.  My daughter took many, many of the SSRI’s a couple of years ago for postpartum depression.  She had a hard time finding the right one and did have significant side effects with this category of drugs.  That doesn’t mean that another person would have the same.  I just prefer to put up with the hot flashes rather than risk the possible side effects.  It’s great when a person gets the optimum benefit with few of the hassles, isn’t it?  Thanks again for clearing my "boo-boo". Barb

Response:

Hi, Nana:     I must be one of the weird ones. I have the hot flashes, but I love the blinkin’ things — first time I’ve been warm in years.     I was also ER+. Nonetheless, when I started having the hot flashes, by onc offered to put me on an estrogen ring which would emit just enough estrogen to keep the hot flashes down but not enough to exacerbate the cancer. I didn’t take it because, as I said, I’m crazy and love my hot flashes.     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. As far as I’m concerned, he’s our guru. But I wouldn’t take anything without talking first with your oncologist. Until you do, grab a fan and ice water, girlfriend! I wish I could take your flashes for you. I only get them every 3 minutes!     Hugs,         Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth. I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I don’t really know very much about this.  I would certainly think that progesterone cream was a bad idea if the cancer is PR+, however the effect on potential tumours is relatively long term, so I doubt that 3 weeks has caused a problem. With regard to Black Cohosh and its ilk, there seem to be differing opinions, and the research results seem to be uncertain.  One obviously wants to minimise estrogen activity, but to replace the function of estrogen in -parts- of the body.  So the fact that it is estrogen-like is not necessarily a bad thing, it depends on the specific effects on breast cancer tissue, ie which particular estrogen receptors it can bind to.  After all Tamoxifen is estrogen-like in that it binds to estrogen receptors, but of course having done so it dos not activate them. I wouldn’t rule it out yet, but I’d read up on the latest research before using it, and of course consult with your oncologist before prescribing yourself anything, ‘natural’ or otherwise. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

Response:

Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8

Response:

<< Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8   I don’t know that much about vitamins but do think we need to be cautious about anything out-of-the norm that we opt to take.  One important fact about vitamins and supplements–they are considered dietary aids and are under different regulations for manufacture than medications.  What is contained and what the label states is contained do not have to be the same.  Because they are considered ‘dietary,’ they are allowed some leeway in that regard.  So, if decides to take them it is good to ascertain whether or not the company that you are getting them from guarantees that the ingredients and % of amounts are accurate.  Some vitamin manufacturers, however, do guarantee that their products and labels are accurate  even though they are not required to do so (state that they are guaranteed, accurate, or even be accurate).

Response:

Dee wrote <<   The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. I really don’t know alot about vitamins but there appear to be mixed reviews on whether they are or aren’t good for those with breast cancer. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=11807780&form… b=m&Dopt=r "1: Int J Cancer 2002 Feb 10;97(5):574-9 Oxidant-antioxidant status in relation to survival among breast cancer patients. Saintot M, Mathieu-Daude H, Astre C, Grenier J, Simony-Lafontaine J, Gerber M. Centre de Recherche en Cancerologie, INSERM-CRLCC, Val D’Aurelle, Parc Euromedecine, Montpellier, France. The role of plasma oxidant-antioxidant status in survival after breast cancer surgery was investigated in a cohort of patients (n = 363) hospitalized in Southern France between 1989 and 1992. The median follow-up was 8 years after surgery for histologically confirmed breast cancer. Plasma analyses were performed after diagnosis and before surgery and adjuvant therapy. We found an inverse relationship between plasma lipoperoxides (MDA) and tumor size at diagnosis, together with higher lipoperoxide levels in node-negative tumors than in node-positive ones (TNM). The longitudinal approach revealed an increased risk of recurrence for patients with plasma lipoperoxides in the highest tertile of the sample (RR = 2.1, 95% CI 1.1-4.0). In addition, the risk of recurrence increased (RR = 1.7, 95%CI 1.0-3.0), after adjustment for the known prognostic factors (TNM), for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels of over 22 micromol/l. The risk of breast cancer death was twice as great for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels above this value. Excesses of plasma lipoperoxides and vitamin E appear to be factors in poor prognosis for breast cancer-specific survival (OVS) and disease-free survival (DFS), respectively, independent of tumor characteristics at diagnosis. Several hypotheses are advanced to explain the possible role of plasma vitamin E as a factor in poor prognosis for survival. Copyright 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc. MeSH Terms: *       Adult *       Aged *       Aged, 80 and over *       Antioxidants/metabolism* *       Biological Markers/blood *       Breast Neoplasms/surgery *       Breast Neoplasms/secondary *       Breast Neoplasms/mortality* *       Breast Neoplasms/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/surgery *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/secondary *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/surgery *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Lobular/surgery *       Carcinoma, Lobular/secondary *       Carcinoma, Lobular/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Lobular/epidemiology *       Cholesterol/blood *       Cohort Studies *       Disease-Free Survival *       Female *       Follow-Up Studies *       France/epidemiology *       Human *       Lipid Peroxides/blood *       Longitudinal Studies *       Lymphatic Metastasis *       Middle Age *       Neoplasm Recurrence, Local *       Oxidants/blood* *       Receptors, Estrogen/metabolism *       Survival Rate Substances: *       Cholesterol *       Receptors, Estrogen *       Oxidants *       Lipid Peroxides *       Biological Markers *       Antioxidants PMID: 11807780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Response:

Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind? Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind?

Totally blind. No clues at all. No-one knows. As I said, it might not be related but the co-incidence at my age might be significant. As you said, it’s interesting Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression. If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do. In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.  If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression.

Um. I -think- I understand some of that … If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do.

Mine was ER+, I -think- that’s comforting … In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.

As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen. If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction.

Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim Jackson One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

Response:

No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

LOL! I’ll try to remember that Mary

Response:

Yeah, they do call them power surges! Believe me, my power *really* surges, too!! I do take the Vitamin E. 2,000IU per day. It also is supposed to help the mind and is recommended often for Alzheimer’s patients. I must be hopeless: I still have the hot flashes BIG time. My husband has the Alzheimer’s disease and he does seem to be doing pretty well. I, on the other hand, forget where I put my car keys, checkbook, etc. Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges." I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

the reintroduction of estrogen would… for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells) As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen.

Yes. I wouldn’t advocate adding to what you already produce yourself.  That shouldn’t have changed. Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t

Yes, this is the fascinating bit.  I know everyone’s thermostat is different and it depends on body weight and things, and it probably has something to do with fat metabolism, and so does (aromatase) estrogen production, but I can’t quite see the connection all the same. Tim

Response:

I don’t really know very much about this.

Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

Question:

For those who have had a positive response on Zoloft (for obsessions only), can you describe the benefit/dosage/time until benefit. thanks.

Response:

It helped for obsessions But it caused me other problems (sleep/sexual function) so I am now trying Nardil Steve

Response:

Hello Everyone I would like to find out how Zoloft does with OCD.  You see, I’m on 30 mgs. of Paxil, which my pdoc notices that it isn’t doing too much with my OCD and wants to switch me to Zoloft.  What she wants to do is, starting tonight, take 50 mgs. of Zoloft while taking 30 mgs. of Paxil (my usual dosage) until this Sunday, then switch down to 20 mgs. of Paxil, while still taking the 50 mgs. of Zoloft.  When I go in to counseling next week, the pdoc wants to up the dosage of Zoloft to 100 mgs. and go down on the Paxil to 10 mgs., starting a week from this Sunday. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with Zoloft with OCD.  Any help is appreciated; thanks in advance. Christine

Response:

In article <3AD65C38.5…@epix.net

, Christine Geary <cge…@epix.net wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to know if anyone has any experience with Zoloft with OCD.  Any help is appreciated; thanks in advance.

I started out on Zoloft. It worked fairly well, but, like all SSRIs, there were side effects. When I first started taking it, and ever time my dosage was raised, I’d spend about week where I couldn’t get past 7pm. I’d become so tired that I had to go to bed. I also lost weight while taking it. It was the later that resulted in a persciption change. Zoloft is an SSRI, like Paxil and Prozac. Like the others, how it works depends on who’s taking it. -Terrie

Response:

Thanks for the information; I appreciate it very much. Christine

Response:

1 1/2 years ago i went on zoloft before i had ocd etc.. i went on it because i had a concentration difficulty, but when i was on it i thought i was on the edge of absolute genius and finding the ‘truth’ etc.. went really high, and when coming off it i pretty much fell to pieces..  that was after about 2 weeks. couple months later i went on aurorix and they screwed me up even more.. thats when ocd got really bad.. but zoloft started it all now i’m probably schizophrenic.. but it could just be ocd/major depression, gotta get checked out more anyway, not to scare you off, because it is meant to be one of the safer ones, i think.. they couldn’t really understand why it had the effect it had. i thought i could, but don’t know anymore. the docs almost seem in denial that it had anything to do with what happened. kinda pisses me off – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Christine Geary wrote:

Hello Everyone I would like to find out how Zoloft does with OCD.  You see, I’m on 30 mgs. of Paxil, which my pdoc notices that it isn’t doing too much with my OCD and wants to switch me to Zoloft.  What she wants to do is, starting tonight, take 50 mgs. of Zoloft while taking 30 mgs. of Paxil (my usual dosage) until this Sunday, then switch down to 20 mgs. of Paxil, while still taking the 50 mgs. of Zoloft.  When I go in to counseling next week, the pdoc wants to up the dosage of Zoloft to 100 mgs. and go down on the Paxil to 10 mgs., starting a week from this Sunday. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with Zoloft with OCD.  Any help is appreciated; thanks in advance. Christine

Response:

You do not sound like you a schizophrenic. You sound like you are manic-depressive and SSRI’s have been known to set off episodes of mania in some people. You probably need to take a mood stabilizer with it, such as Lithium, Neurontin, Tegretol, Depakote, etc…… Ida "mahja-urana @yahoo.com

" <"snafuper<erase wrote in message

news:3AD7E72B.C208C04E@yahoo.com…

1 1/2 years ago i went on zoloft before i had ocd etc.. i went on it

because i had a

concentration difficulty, but when i was on it i thought i was on the edge

of absolute

genius and finding the ‘truth’ etc.. went really high, and when coming off

it i pretty much

fell to pieces..  that was after about 2 weeks. couple months later i went on aurorix and they screwed me up even more..

thats when ocd got

really bad.. but zoloft started it all now i’m probably schizophrenic.. but it could just be ocd/major

depression, gotta get – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

checked out more anyway, not to scare you off, because it is meant to be one of the safer

ones, i think..

they couldn’t really understand why it had the effect it had. i thought i

could, but don’t

know anymore. the docs almost seem in denial that it had anything to do

with what happened.

kinda pisses me off Christine Geary wrote: Hello Everyone I would like to find out how Zoloft does with OCD.  You see, I’m on 30

mgs. of Paxil,

which my pdoc notices that it isn’t doing too much with my OCD and wants

to switch me to

Zoloft.  What she wants to do is, starting tonight, take 50 mgs. of

Zoloft while taking

30 mgs. of Paxil (my usual dosage) until this Sunday, then switch down

to 20 mgs. of

Paxil, while still taking the 50 mgs. of Zoloft.  When I go in to

counseling next week, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

the pdoc wants to up the dosage of Zoloft to 100 mgs. and go down on the

Paxil to 10

mgs., starting a week from this Sunday. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with Zoloft with OCD.

Any help is

appreciated; thanks in advance. Christine

Response:

Hello Everyone I would like to find out how Zoloft does with OCD.

Zoloft may help you or may not, it depends on your system blah blah. Every med affects different people, blah blah. They are similar/with different trade names. They have not been thoroughly tested. Your doctor (do you have one?) may be afraid to tell you that. It is not my body and I I don’t care.  

Response:

Thanks for the information; I appreciate it very much. BTW, I’m on Zyprexa for my moods. Christine

Response:

    I’m on Prozac for my OCD, and Depakote for my moods. I’m not manic- depressive but my emotions were pretty wild. Depakote has helped alot. -Kathy in Maine "Christine Geary" <cge…@epix.net

wrote in message

news:3AD896A6.65AC@epix.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thanks for the information; I appreciate it very much. BTW, I’m on Zyprexa for my moods. Christine

Response:

Hi    I just started taking Zoloft three days ago.  Starting at 25mg/day, just wondering about people’s experience on Zoloft.  I havn’t had any side effects from it yet, it may be still to early. slb02

Response:

I took Zoloft for 2 years. It worked well for me. It gave me a little diahrrhea (not intolerable but just once every day or two, loose stools). After about 2 years, it stopped being effective but it was good for those 2 years. Ida – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -slb02 <sl…@home.com

wrote in message news:382A3595.FDDF727D@home.com… Hi    I just started taking Zoloft three days ago.  Starting at 25mg/day, just wondering about people’s experience on Zoloft.  I havn’t had any side effects from it yet, it may be still to early. slb02

Response:

Zoloft does not help with OCD.  I took it for three months and found not much success.  I switched to Paxil and within 2 to 3 weeks was symtom free-completely.  It works great for pure obsessions.  I do not have any compulsions, so I do not know how it works for that.  The dosage for OCD is 40 to 60 mg.  I was taking 100 mg of Zoloft with no success. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -slb02 wrote:

Hi    I just started taking Zoloft three days ago.  Starting at 25mg/day, just wondering about people’s experience on Zoloft.  I havn’t had any side effects from it yet, it may be still to early. slb02

Response:

everybody is different but it started a balding pattern in me ,  

Response:

Hi there, I found that while Zoloft helped me feel better, it kept me awake for days. However, many people have had great success with Zoloft, so it’s all variable by person.  Besides the insomnia I had very little other side effects, however with Paxil I got those famous sexual side effects and irritability.  Good luck! Take care, Jonathan "There is nothing like a challenge to bring out the best in man."  –Sean Connery

Response:

I was on Zoloft for for 2 yrs and then it eventually pooped out. It did help with the OCD and depression, but it took 4 months to reach the full benefit. Side effects were:  insomnia, lots of weight gain, night sweats & dry mouth. Mary

Response:

I’ve been sleeping okay with it so far, but I’m still only on 25 mg.  How did it help you feel better?  Are you more obsessive or compulsive?  I’m more obsessive. slb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Jonathan R." wrote:

Hi there, I found that while Zoloft helped me feel better, it kept me awake for days. However, many people have had great success with Zoloft, so it’s all variable by person.  Besides the insomnia I had very little other side effects, however with Paxil I got those famous sexual side effects and irritability.  Good luck! Take care, Jonathan "There is nothing like a challenge to bring out the best in man."  –Sean Connery

Response:

hi   how much were you taking at 4 months?  Did it help with obsessions?  Are you taking a different med now? is it helping? slb. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -INaFog5716 wrote:

I was on Zoloft for for 2 yrs and then it eventually pooped out. It did help with the OCD and depression, but it took 4 months to reach the full benefit. Side effects were:  insomnia, lots of weight gain, night sweats & dry mouth. Mary

Response:

Thanks…. I hope it helps me, but I will try Paxil if it doesn’t, I am mostly obsessive too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -donna black wrote:

Zoloft does not help with OCD.  I took it for three months and found not much success.  I switched to Paxil and within 2 to 3 weeks was symtom free-completely.  It works great for pure obsessions.  I do not have any compulsions, so I do not know how it works for that.  The dosage for OCD is 40 to 60 mg.  I was taking 100 mg of Zoloft with no success. slb02 wrote: Hi    I just started taking Zoloft three days ago.  Starting at 25mg/day, just wondering about people’s experience on Zoloft.  I havn’t had any side effects from it yet, it may be still to early. slb02

Response:

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:53:42 -0600, donna black <dbl…@zebra.net

wrote:

Zoloft does not help with OCD.  I took it for three months and found not much success.  I switched to Paxil and within 2 to 3 weeks was symtom free-completely.  It works great for pure obsessions.  I do not have any compulsions, so I do not know how it works for that.  The dosage for OCD is 40 to 60 mg.  I was taking 100 mg of Zoloft with no success.

…Zoloft DOES help with OCD. I have been on it for 14 months now, and my life has improved so much, I can’t believe it.    Everyone is different.  Just because it didn’t work for you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. CanadaMan

Response:

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:15:18 GMT, slb02 <sl…@home.com

wrote: Hi   I just started taking Zoloft three days ago.  Starting at 25mg/day, just wondering about people’s experience on Zoloft.  I havn’t had any side effects from it yet, it may be still to early. slb02

Zoloft has been a miracle drug for me. I’ve been taking  it for  6 years. Most of the time I was on 150 mg. 2  years ago I went down to 100 mg.  My side effects have been diarreah and less horniness. Energo Ed

Response:

In article <38374566.6841…@newsread.cioe.com

,

  ene…@fwa.cioe.com (Energo Ed) wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:15:18 GMT, slb02

<sl…@home.com

wrote: Hi   I just started taking Zoloft three days

ago.  Starting at 25mg/day,

just wondering about people’s experience on

Zoloft.  I havn’t had any

side effects from it yet, it may be still to

early.

slb02 Zoloft has been a miracle drug for me. I’ve

been taking  it for  6

years. Most of the time I was on 150 mg. 2

years ago I went down to

100 mg.  My side effects have been diarreah and

less horniness.

Energo Ed

I’ve been on Zoloft 100mg for about 4 months. One of my side effects has been waking up at night in a cold sweat.  It only happens once a night about 8 hours after I’ve taken the Zoloft. The only other side effect has been delayed ejaculation.  Actually I’ve started to learn how to control that problem and am now able to have muliple orgasms without ejaculating until I want to.  Makes the wife very happy Happy Hank Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

In article <38374566.6841…@newsread.cioe.com

,

  ene…@fwa.cioe.com (Energo Ed) wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:15:18 GMT, slb02

<sl…@home.com

wrote: Hi   I just started taking Zoloft three days

ago.  Starting at 25mg/day,

just wondering about people’s experience on

Zoloft.  I havn’t had any

side effects from it yet, it may be still to

early.

slb02 Zoloft has been a miracle drug for me. I’ve

been taking  it for  6

years. Most of the time I was on 150 mg. 2

years ago I went down to

100 mg.  My side effects have been diarreah and

less horniness.

Energo Ed

I’ve been on Zoloft 100mg for about 4 months. One of my side effects has been waking up at night in a cold sweat.  It only happens once a night about 8 hours after I’ve taken the Zoloft. The only other side effect has been delayed ejaculation.  Actually I’ve started to learn how to control that problem and am now able to have muliple orgasms without ejaculating until I want to.  Makes the wife very happy Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Anyone got any suggestions for postive help in young children? Age 10-12? does it work?  any negative side affects that would not have been there w/o the drug? Thanks—- Lynn BTW I’m new so don’t pick on me……

Response:

LYNN32141 wrote:

Anyone got any suggestions for postive help in young children?

None, I’m afraid. But welcome to the newsgroup!

BTW I’m new so don’t pick on me……

Sshhhhhhhhhh, quiet everybody………..  BOO!!!     Kind regards, Steve

Response:

thanks Scott……  the educating OTHERS  <and I put it in big print

is

probably more the difficult task than just living with her as I do….   Lynn

Response:

hehehe thanks Steve……… <grin

Lynn

Response:

What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy

Response:

Cindy, Although I am not taking Zoloft for OCD I have been on it for almost 6 weeks now and the only side efects I have are drowiness (which usually wears off in the morning as I take it at 6AM) and nervousness, jittery, heightened anxiety, etc.  Start at a low dosage 25mg and increase it gradually after 7-10 days (or more) depending on how you feel.  I was on 25mg for 28 days, then 37.5mg for 6 days and then on to 50mg.  Weaning in on lower dosages may make the side effects more tolerable.  Check with your doctor about weaning on it more slowly. Also, ask him for some Xanax to help control the nervosuness, etc.  As always, YMMV. Gene in New Jersey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy

Response:

In article <37E9B9B4.5…@slonet.org

, cwebs…@slonet.org wrote: What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy

My biggest side-effects were increased anxiety from tremors (especially for the first several hours after taking it), diarrhea, dry mouth, and several other minor things…All of these got much better or went away within several weeks…I got full-effect from the Zoloft after about 8 weeks…However, I was taking for anxiety…Supposedly, for OCD it may take 12 weeks to see a full-response… Chuck — Charles Phipps

Response:

know what  i experienced with  zoloft, the  fucking  pill activated hair loss and  now it  wont stop falling out!! fuck!!!!!!!!!!

Response:

oh yeah…now I remember you cause of the hair loss thing…that sucks cause of a stupid med…see…all meds bad…it helps one thing to destroy another

Gaze fondly upon today for tomorrow is boundto suck worse

Response:

All meds aren’t bad. It’s true that they usually have some sort of side effect but sometimes the side effects aren’t as bad as the disease. It all depends on the severity of your OCD. Ida Trixie P <naz…@webtv.net

wrote in message

news:29202-37EB0D57-191@newsd-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net… oh yeah…now I remember you cause of the hair loss thing…that sucks cause of a stupid med…see…all meds bad…it helps one thing to destroy another Gaze fondly upon today for tomorrow is bound to suck worse

Response:

Cindy Webster <cwebs…@slonet.org

wrote in message

news:37E9B9B4.54BB@slonet.org…

What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy

Zoloft didn’t help my OCD, and it made my appetite increase.

Response:

Cindy Webster <cwebs…@slonet.org wrote in message news:37E9B9B4.54BB@slonet.org… What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy

Zoloft sucks. I take it more for the panic-stress disorder than I do for the ocd. Kim says it works; says I’m a different person. I’m sure it helps me a little, but I’m thinking the only thing that’ll help me now is seclusion. I need to be separated from everything around me. I feel fine when I’m by myself, but just let one person approach me and I panic inside. I’m always afraid my wife will catch me doing something wrong even though I never do anything. Other than work, I hardly ever leave the yard. My best friend lives around the corner from us, so I occasionally go over there. Most of the time though, he is over here. I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago. If Kim knows, she hasn’t said anything. I’m just tired of taking pills. It’s bad enough that I have to have 3 injections of insulin every day to stay alive. Why can’t I just wake up, shower, and go about my business like normal people do? — Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin, Diet, Exercise, and a butt load of Zoloft. Jesus Saves! (by shopping wisely and using double coupons)

Response:

Duane wrote:

I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago.

Hi Duane, Did you do this under medical supervision? If you are feeling more panicky than usual or have any other symptoms then it’s because you stopped taking the Zoloft. Have a look at the thread from Jonathan R. called "Paxil withdrawal and dizziness". Going cold turkey can be very hazardous to your health and it’s important to never just stop taking anti-depressants unless told to do so. Usually, the dose has to be gradually reduced over a long period of time to avoid what’s called "withdrawal syndrome". Regards, Steve

Response:

did you talk to the doc before you stopped the med .. in case of serious withdrawl … if not you should call the doc … and  do not start them again unless you talk to the doc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -duane wrote:

Cindy Webster <cwebs…@slonet.org wrote in message news:37E9B9B4.54BB@slonet.org… What have people experienced as side effects with Zoloft for OCD and how long did it take to see a response? Thanks!!–Cindy Zoloft sucks. I take it more for the panic-stress disorder than I do for the ocd. Kim says it works; says I’m a different person. I’m sure it helps me a little, but I’m thinking the only thing that’ll help me now is seclusion. I need to be separated from everything around me. I feel fine when I’m by myself, but just let one person approach me and I panic inside. I’m always afraid my wife will catch me doing something wrong even though I never do anything. Other than work, I hardly ever leave the yard. My best friend lives around the corner from us, so I occasionally go over there. Most of the time though, he is over here. I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago. If Kim knows, she hasn’t said anything. I’m just tired of taking pills. It’s bad enough that I have to have 3 injections of insulin every day to stay alive. Why can’t I just wake up, shower, and go about my business like normal people do? — Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin, Diet, Exercise, and a butt load of Zoloft. Jesus Saves! (by shopping wisely and using double coupons)

Response:

Zoloft SUCKS! Everybody in this NG knows I am a counter. I count EVERYTHING… even my Zoloft dosages. Then I obsess over whether or not I took the right amount… too much or too little. I am in withdrawal. My wife knows. She told me yesterday that she knew. She is totally pissed. And to answer the question, no, I didn’t do this under my Pdoc’s direction. I just did it. I want to be normal and normal people don’t have to take pills to survive. They don’t have to be insulin junkies either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stephen George wrote:

Duane wrote: I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago. Hi Duane, Did you do this under medical supervision? If you are feeling more panicky than usual or have any other symptoms then it’s because you stopped taking the Zoloft. Have a look at the thread from Jonathan R. called "Paxil withdrawal and dizziness". Going cold turkey can be very hazardous to your health and it’s important to never just stop taking anti-depressants unless told to do so. Usually, the dose has to be gradually reduced over a long period of time to avoid what’s called "withdrawal syndrome". Regards, Steve

— Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin (but not for long… gonna quit that too), Diet, Exercise, and no Zoloft whatsoever. Jesus Saves! (by shopping wisely and using double coupons)

Response:

Duane wrote:

Zoloft SUCKS! Everybody in this NG knows I am a counter. I count EVERYTHING… even my Zoloft dosages. Then I obsess over whether or not I took the right amount… too much or too little. I am in

withdrawal.

My wife knows. She told me yesterday that she knew. She is totally pissed.

I’m not surprised!

And to answer the question, no, I didn’t do this under my Pdoc’s direction. I just did it. I want to be normal and normal people don’t have to take pills to survive. They don’t have to be insulin junkies either.

My mother takes drugs (for Colitis) to stay alive. Has done for 35 years. Are you saying that she’s not normal? Millions of people take billions of pills, some of them to survive. Sounds pretty smart and normal to me!

Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin (but not for long… gonna quit that too), Diet, Exercise, and no Zoloft whatsoever.

Come on Duane! GET REAL!!!!!! I live in England – how the fu*k can I afford to travel to your funeral??? Maybe I could just about afford to send some nice flowers… Like I said – GET REAL!!!!!! Do it before your wife calls your shrink and he kicks your ass – hard!!! Kind regards, Steve

Response:

Hi Duane sounds like your fed up with all your shit…Just  for my curiosity what other meds have the doc tried with you … From what I have read and heard meds and o.c.d. and t.s. are trial and error.. the average would would 3-6 months trial ..because they increase and decrease dosages gradually ..for good reasons… then off for I think is 2 weeks dry then the next med …there is also, as all of you know combos which work well together….     I heard somewhere that the pharmaceutical industry is working on drugs which are "designer pills"  oppose to the general targeting would be more fine tuned for specific brain function… the drawback, like any thing else in this world is that enough paying customers have to be ready on the sidelines to pay big bucks..     Duane I know this is asking a lot ..but  try if at all possible to be patient as you go through all your days …I’ll quote my son ..".Dad I would rather be on my pills and get real fat than having all these f****** evil thoughts about you" he still hasn’t told me what theses thoughts are …2 years ago he said that he has gone from 34 to 44 waist …. I know how much this hurts him .. after losing all the weight from 40 to 34 the years prior. Anyway  off  topic sorry Duane    Good luck sir ..will be thinking about you and your family. Ray M. ..a little ray of sunshine.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -duane wrote:

Zoloft SUCKS! Everybody in this NG knows I am a counter. I count EVERYTHING… even my Zoloft dosages. Then I obsess over whether or not I took the right amount… too much or too little. I am in withdrawal. My wife knows. She told me yesterday that she knew. She is totally pissed. And to answer the question, no, I didn’t do this under my Pdoc’s direction. I just did it. I want to be normal and normal people don’t have to take pills to survive. They don’t have to be insulin junkies either. Stephen George wrote: Duane wrote: I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago. Hi Duane, Did you do this under medical supervision? If you are feeling more panicky than usual or have any other symptoms then it’s because you stopped taking the Zoloft. Have a look at the thread from Jonathan R. called "Paxil withdrawal and dizziness". Going cold turkey can be very hazardous to your health and it’s important to never just stop taking anti-depressants unless told to do so. Usually, the dose has to be gradually reduced over a long period of time to avoid what’s called "withdrawal syndrome". Regards, Steve — Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin (but not for long… gonna quit that too), Diet, Exercise, and no Zoloft whatsoever. Jesus Saves! (by shopping wisely and using double coupons)

Response:

Duane, you sound so freaking disgusted! I know just how you feel. About once or twice a year, I will get totally fed up with my meds (usually due to the side-effects) and I will either reduce them or change them. I hate having a diminished sex life, being tired all the time, constipated, whatever (depending on the drug). For the most part, I have accepted that I will probably have to be on some sort of anti-depressant for the REST OF MY LIFE!!!! It really pisses me off. Because OCD is a mental illness, I feel weak that I can’t control this on my own. My doctor makes me feel a little better by reminding me I wouldn’t be so critical of someone who had to take antihypertensives for high blood pressure and he is right. But I am tougher on myself than I am on other people. I want to be normal, too! And when the medicines are working well, I get a little taste of normal life and I think I can do it on my own but I can’t. Maybe some of the other people on this group can do it, but I have been fighting this stupid disease long enough to know that I am not one of them. I need medications to function. I hope you can find a drug that agrees with you a little better. Keep looking. Ida duane <d_har…@tyler.net

wrote in message

news:37F80F6E.38E918CD@tyler.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Zoloft SUCKS! Everybody in this NG knows I am a counter. I count EVERYTHING… even my Zoloft dosages. Then I obsess over whether or not I took the right amount… too much or too little. I am in withdrawal. My wife knows. She told me yesterday that she knew. She is totally pissed. And to answer the question, no, I didn’t do this under my Pdoc’s direction. I just did it. I want to be normal and normal people don’t have to take pills to survive. They don’t have to be insulin junkies either. Stephen George wrote: Duane wrote: I have a confession… I quit taking the Zoloft about a week ago. Hi Duane, Did you do this under medical supervision? If you are feeling more panicky than usual or have any other symptoms then it’s because you stopped taking the Zoloft. Have a look at the thread from Jonathan R. called "Paxil withdrawal and dizziness". Going cold turkey can be very hazardous to your health and it’s important to never just stop taking anti-depressants unless told to do so. Usually, the dose has to be gradually reduced over a long period of time to avoid what’s called "withdrawal syndrome". Regards, Steve — Duane Type1 Diabetic, OCD, PSD Insulin (but not for long… gonna quit that too), Diet, Exercise, and no Zoloft whatsoever. Jesus Saves! (by shopping wisely and using double coupons)

Response:

Hi peeps, long time no speak! Has anyone else found that the effects of Zoloft have worn off on them? It used to be the best for me! But suddenly it just doesn’t have as much impact even at higher doses! Any suggestions? Am going to see a psychiatrist and get another med, any ideas? What was that offshoot of celexa everyone was talking about recently called? Thanks, Hope everyone is well! (At least a bit better than me!) Love Am. xxx

Response:

Yes, the same thing happened to me. It worked well for about 1 or 2 years and all of a sudden, it did not work anymore. I switched to Paxil & stayed on that one for years. NK "Pola_Pink" <pola_pin…@no.spam.hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:QMgJa.621$Ev4.36453@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi peeps, long time no speak! Has anyone else found that the effects of Zoloft have worn off on them? It used to be the best for me! But suddenly it just doesn’t have as much impact even at higher doses! Any suggestions? Am going to see a psychiatrist and get another med, any ideas? What was that offshoot of celexa everyone was talking about recently called? Thanks, Hope everyone is well! (At least a bit better than me!) Love Am. xxx

Response:

I’ve been on it for almost 10 years. It is still the miracle drug for me. Monty On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:50:45 +1000, "Pola_Pink" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<pola_pin…@no.spam.hotmail.com

wrote: Hi peeps, long time no speak! Has anyone else found that the effects of Zoloft have worn off on them? It used to be the best for me! But suddenly it just doesn’t have as much impact even at higher doses! Any suggestions? Am going to see a psychiatrist and get another med, any ideas? What was that offshoot of celexa everyone was talking about recently called? Thanks, Hope everyone is well! (At least a bit better than me!) Love Am. xxx

Response:

Lexapro? Seems to be working for my brother’s obsessions. He’s not as stressed as he once was. "Pola_Pink" <pola_pin…@no.spam.hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:QMgJa.621$Ev4.36453@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi peeps, long time no speak! Has anyone else found that the effects of Zoloft have worn off on them? It used to be the best for me! But suddenly it just doesn’t have as much impact even at higher doses! Any suggestions? Am going to see a psychiatrist and get another med, any ideas? What was that offshoot of celexa everyone was talking about recently called? Thanks, Hope everyone is well! (At least a bit better than me!) Love Am. xxx

Response:

kd <k…@kf.com

wrote: Lexapro? Seems to be working for my brother’s obsessions. He’s not as stressed as he once was.

Is this another SSRI, or in another class? I’m starting to think maybe the SSRIs aren’t for me because of some nasty side-effects, tho it’s too early to tell. I’d be curious if there was something else out there a bit different that might work for ocd & gad. Thanks for any info. bill __ alien…@earthlink.net

Response:

Yes. I do believe Lexapro is in the same family as Celexa NK "williamd" <alien…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

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kd <k…@kf.com wrote: Lexapro? Seems to be working for my brother’s obsessions. He’s not as stressed as he once was. Is this another SSRI, or in another class? I’m starting to think maybe the SSRIs aren’t for me because of some nasty side-effects, tho it’s too early to tell. I’d be curious if there was something else out there a bit different that might work for ocd & gad. Thanks for any info. bill __ alien…@earthlink.net

Response:

Oh, it is. What I read was the Celexa was not a pure form of the medicine so they made this (lexapro) to be a more potent form. This allows them to regulate the amount better so you can be eased into the medicine’s effects. "No Kidding!" <nokidd…@ria.net(NOSPAMPLEASE)

wrote in message

news:bdavrm$8af$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes. I do believe Lexapro is in the same family as Celexa > NK > "williamd" <alien…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> news:1fx10cs.yfgpnwosq0owN%alienmac@earthlink.net… > > kd <k…@kf.com> wrote: > > > Lexapro? Seems to be working for my brother’s obsessions. He’s not as > > > stressed as he once was. > > Is this another SSRI, or in another class? I’m starting to think maybe > > the SSRIs aren’t for me because of some nasty side-effects, tho it’s too > > early to tell. I’d be curious if there was something else out there a > > bit different that might work for ocd & gad. Thanks for any info. > > bill > > __ > > alien…@earthlink.net

Response:

zoloft didn’t work well for me, and now i’m trying paxil. everyone is different i guess, so it’s trial and error before finding the one that’s right for you TB "Pola_Pink" <pola_pin…@no.spam.hotmail.com

wrote in message

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Hi peeps, long time no speak! Has anyone else found that the effects of Zoloft have worn off on them? It used to be the best for me! But suddenly it just doesn’t have as much impact even at higher doses! Any suggestions? Am going to see a psychiatrist and get another med, any ideas? What was that offshoot of celexa everyone was talking about recently called? Thanks, Hope everyone is well! (At least a bit better than me!) Love Am. xxx

Response:

. Now it seems that every one I try–even the Luvox–makes me have no desire to eat. My question is, has anyone experienced this before, and does it go away with time.

Yes, I have/do experience this. I’ve been on 100 mg of Zoloft for 2 years. I cut down to 50 for awhile then went back to 100 and when I did I felt a major loss in appetite.  I still only eat 2 meals a day and sometimes am not interested in eating dinner at all.  I do however have the dreaded "carb" cravings.  

Response:

Hi Chris. Glad to see you back. Are you *sure* it’s the meds that are causing you to lose your appetite (instead of depression or some other cause)? If your appetite returns without being on the meds, than I guess so…… When I got depressed, one of my biggest symptoms was lack of appetite, although certains meds did not help in this area. The old tricylics (I took Pamalor) are great appetite stimulants. Prozac & Celexa did not help my appetite at all. Good drug if you’re depressed and overweight. NK "Chris" <ezra…@excite.com

wrote in message

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Hi guys, haven’t been here for a while… I’ve tried a few different meds over the last few months: Celexa, Effexor, Luvox (which I had taken a few years ago with no problems), and now I’m on Zoloft, 50 mg. With each of the drugs I have tried since this past January, all of the have caused me to completely lose my appetite. I was put on Luvox in 98 and had no problem and was on it for two years. Then I stopped the meds. altogether and also had no problem. Now it seems that every one I try–even the Luvox–makes me have no desire to eat. My question is, has anyone experienced this before, and does it go away with time. I’ve only been on this for about a week. Any feedback would be great. Thanks. Chris

Response:

Hi guys, haven’t been here for a while… I’ve tried a few different meds over the last few months: Celexa, Effexor, Luvox (which I had taken a few years ago with no problems), and now I’m on Zoloft, 50 mg. With each of the drugs I have tried since this past January, all of the have caused me to completely lose my appetite. I was put on Luvox in 98 and had no problem and was on it for two years. Then I stopped the meds. altogether and also had no problem. Now it seems that every one I try–even the Luvox–makes me have no desire to eat. My question is, has anyone experienced this before, and does it go away with time. I’ve only been on this for about a week. Any feedback would be great. Thanks. Chris

Response:

Question:

Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy.  Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling level. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again.  Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.  I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.  Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday. Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

DiA, I’ve been using several labels of an extract called Kaviar(TM). You can read background info on their product(s) at http://www.cosmopolitantrading.com/ I’ve used their soft gels; they’re quite good, but take a bit longer to get into your system because it’s a thick paste inside of a softgel (available from Source Naturals as Kava Gold softgels – http://www.vitacost.com/Store/products/Products.cfm?SubCategoryID=313… own1=product I have a slight preference for their powdered version because of the bioabsorption issue; I get it from http://www.health-pages.com/kk/index.html PW is using one of the Gaia Herbs products (not sure if it’s the tincture or the phyto-capsules).  I’ve not tried them, but they have an excellent reputation, and the liquid versions do work much faster. My dosage level flucuates because I supplement the capsules with "kava tonics" I make from raw powder; I probably average around 700 mg/day.  The medical impllications of prolonged daily use at that level is very uncertain. Start with one or two capsules and evaluate your response.  Next time increase the dosage by another capsule until you get what feels like a good response. Take kava on an empty stomach, no matter what the label says, and wait awhile (about an hour, but it varies by individual, before you eat) If you get to 300mg without any significant effect, then kava may not work for you, but give it 3-4 days at a consistent dosage level before you drop it; sometimes it takes a while for the full effect to settle in. Hope it works for you, but even if not, I’d be interested in hearing your opinion. Figaro

Response:

Thanks for the info..I do have more anxiety and no depression anymore and thats why I think the Kava may be better.. It’s worth a try, anyway:) DiA

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

St. John’s Wort is an anti-depressant.  Kava-kava is (primarily) an anti-anxiety drug; it won’t help mood unless you have anxiety-driven depression.  If you take both, the SJW will interfere with the effectiveness of the kava. You *must* research kava extensively before you take it on a regular basis. There are unresolved health issues involving possible liver damage. Make an informed decision. Although I’m a regular kava user I try not to advocate nor discourage its use by anyone else.  That statement notwithstanding, my personal opinion is that kava has the potential to be an outstanding alternative to the benzodiazepenes, but the current kava products on the market varying in effectiveness from useless to excellent, so you may need to try several before finding one that works for you.

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

DiA I have read that St. John’s wort is good for depression.  It can be a bit stimulating.  I skirt away from it because by depression is secondary to my anxiety.  I am not really qualified to make any suggestions, though I can offer some of my own prsonal experience.  St. John’s Wort never helped me at all.  It never hurt me either.  Though it can aggravate some ppls’ anxiety – so I’ve read. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy. Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling

level. I had the same reaction to Paxil but I was taking it for anxiety and was on a mania streak the entire 3 months I was on it. Thanfully I had Xanax to calm me down. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again. Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.

We have something in common but my anger has nothing to do my anxiety. Still trying to figure out what it is. I have these rage relapses once on a while and cannot control it right in the middle of it. But they usually only last one day now. I was in this state of mind for years in the past. Suicidal up the ying yang. I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.

Remind me to never get on your bad side : ) Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month.

Good, I’m glad you’re succesfully weaning off of it…

Thanks! Have a good one Ms. PW, Kevin…

Response:

Question:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote in message

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Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,

have

a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all

wrong..

If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by

posters

to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

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In article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

Janus  <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!  

Its quite common that people with a condition know more about it than the ‘experts’. Face blindness is a good example, I actually know the people involved here. The original face blindness tests involved showing an entire person and/or head. People who experienced face blindness where passing the tests, and posting on discussion boards about the problems with them. Finally a neurology student sees the discussions and not being full of himself and his ‘expertise’ decides they might be right, and sets out to make a valid test. He first proved the old tests invalid by showing that people still passed them even when the faces where removed from the pictures! —       Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness      Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a Temporary Autonomous Zone.   C/C++/Perl Linux/Unix resume: http://www.farviolet.com/~entropy/resume.txt

Response:

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:03:10 -0400, in article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Janus <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Do you have TS? Blurt

Response:

Doctors are just everyday people who can read way too much about stuff that has little bearing on reality. the folk in this form deal with people (read doctors) who deal with Tourettes mostly though some third or fourth-hand form. first-hand, being someone who has the condition. second hand, being someone, like a mother, who deals with the condition. and third-hand, being someone who might writes about these conditions. fourth-hand, may be a G.P, or even perhaps a geneticist. So don’t go wasting all your energy projecting it all into the rebuttal of one minor disagreement you had with what TSNW says. When your intentions are so meaningless, anything you say therein will have little credence to anybody here you are maybe hoping to influence. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:50:09 +0100, "lurker" <spam@nospam

wrote: "Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography: Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. — A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:00:08 GMT, "John Morten Malerbakken" <John.Mor…@malerbakken.com

wrote: Janus, You would be surprised to know the number of people on this group who also have TS themselves. It is easier to focus on th children for many reason, as most of us believe that there is one place that we could be able to make a difference.

I also think they make good distractions. I once said to someone who wanted to put kids in a wedding that i likened it to putting a bowl of swimming fish in a room.

Response:

"Janus" <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:MPG.17b2fb9773c3b29896bb@news.alt.net…

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Then  leave.    Ooops, block sender?  Ok.  Gone now.

Response:

in article MPG.17b31ca568da8276989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 10:24 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net, spock…@bellsouth.net says… in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

And, why the hell not????? I have absolutely no problem giving anyone my 2 cents worth. pfffft…. Paula —

Response:

Janus writes:

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Didn’t used to be…

People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol

The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is being defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

Response:

–  xxxx "MomN82R" <momn…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020801225752.28506.00000848@mb-cs.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus writes: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. Didn’t used to be… People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is

being

defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have

TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

ROFL…..brilliant!!!!!! JANnybravo, uh, uh, I meant jennybravo…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula —

Response:

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net

,

spock…@bellsouth.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula

go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lurker wrote:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering.

Thanks lurker.  I am well aware of Dr. J’s CV (the TS community in New England is not THAT large) and I know a couple of his patients personally.  It’s clear that I should have prefaced my post with a big !!!SARCASM ALERT!!!… Of course physicians must be judicious and cautious in prescribing stimulants (or any other med, for that matter).  Stimulants *can* exacerbate tics in some people, sometimes severely.  No argument there. But if Janus’ position is that *no* physician who is knowledgeable about TS would ever prescribe stimulants to *any* patient with tics or TS and co-morbid ADHD, he/she is flat out wrong.

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.       "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said.                                                                                                                         —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:34:26 -0400, Maryann <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

Your comments have been forwarded Not too sure what you have against Professor Jankovic but if you arer going to cyberstalk him you may as well di it properly Professor of Neurology Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic President, Movement Disorder Society Phone: 1-713-798-7438 (Patient Appointment) Phone: 1-713-798-5998 (Academic) Fax: 1-713-798-6808 email: jose…@bcm.tmc.edu Joseph Jankovic, M.D. ————————————————————————— —– Clinical Interests: Movement disorders including Parkinson’s disease and related neurodegenerative disorders, tremors, dystonia, Tourette’s syndrome, Huntington’s disease, and tardive dyskinesias. Research Interests: Epidemiology, pathophysiology, genetics and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Selected Publications: (out of over 300 original articles and reviews) Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Essential tremor: Treatment options. CNS Drugs. 3:178-191. Demirkiran, M., Jankovic, J. (1996) Paroxysmal dyskinesias. In: Appel, S.H., ed., Current Neurology, vol 16, Mosby Year Book, Chicago, 16:213-251. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Severe motor tics causing cervical myelopathy in Tourette’s syndrome. Mov. Disord. 11:563-566. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Calne, D., Campbell, G., Dubois, B., Duvoisin, R.C., Goetz, C.G., Golbe, L.I., Grafman, J., Growdon, J.H., Hallett, M., Jankovic, J., Quinn, N.P., Tolosa, E., Zee, D.S. (1996) Clinical research criteria for the diagnosis of progressive supranuclear palsy (Steele-Richardson-Olszewski syndrome): Report of the NINDS-SPSP International Workshop. Neurology. 47:1-9. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Surgical treatment of Parkinson’s disease. Am. Fam. Physician. 54:1621-1629. Stanley, R., Protas, E.J., Jankovic, J. (1996) Exercise intervention in Parkinson’s disease: A pilot study. Mov. Disor. 11:748-751. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Sastrj, N., Jankovic, J., Wenning, G., Goetz, C.G., et al. (1996) What are the obstacles for an accurate clinical diagnosis of Pick’s disease? A clinicopathologic study. Neurology. 49:62-69. Krauss, J.K., Akeyson, E.W., Giam, P., Jankovic, J. (1996) Propofol-induced dyskinesias in Parkinson’s disease. Anesth. Analg. 83:420-422. Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Restless legs syndrome: Clinical-etiologic correlates. Neurology. 47:1435-1441. Dichgans, J., M

Question:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Response:

Hi!  I was on Prozac and Trazedone for a couple of years.  I am still taking Trazedone at night (taking other meds during the day).  Trazedone at a therapeutic dose at night will help you sleep good and hopefully will enable you after 8 hours of sleep to awaken refreshed and the Prozac should help keep you movin during the day. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience?

<//< Cynthia / Southern California "Jesus Wept"

Response:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

Response:

Wilfredo, I took prozac for a while and trazadone also.  Separately.  I’m currently on no meds for depression (except my thyroid LOL) but I do still occasionally take 50-100 mg of trazadone at night to sleep.  My psychiatrist gave it to me and continues to prescribe it.  It’s on an as needed basis.  I love that stuff! Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

Response:

Question:

Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant

Deb – My shakiness and headaches don’t seem to coincide with my dosing.  As a matter of fact my symptoms don’t seem to coincide with anything, which makes this whole situation much more frustrating. I take my dose at 10:00 p.m. every night.  I have absolutely no trouble falling asleep – it’s staying asleep.  When I wake up at 5:00 a.m. (if I am lucky enuf to have slept the whole night through – rare) I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better. Karen

Response:

I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better.

Dear Karen, Sorry to hear you still don`t feel well!! You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something?? When is the last time you eat or drink something the night before? This may be a long shot, but maybe you are going to long without eating something. Sometimes I will eat dinner at 5pm, and then not eat anything else for the rest of the evening, then the next day when I  wake up I feel a little shaky. Sometimes just having a glass of oj and a slice of cheese, I feel better. You could try at 10pm having a glass of milk and some graham crackers, maybe you might see a difference or maybe you won`t, can`t hurt. Take Care!! Jackie Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.–George Carlin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

Response:

Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

I only had the one morning anxiety return on the morning after my missed dose and it was fine by afternoon. I really do not know if it was a breakthough episode or really related to the missed dose, but it seemed to be. Anyway, I am MUCH better about remembering my meds now

Response:

You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something??

I start to feel better after I get up out of bed and get rolling.  I thought maybe it was nutritional too, but food does not seem to matter.  I get shaky when I feel anxious (of course) but then I also get anxious because I get the shakes. Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

I’ll offer some views from someone who has taken Serzone for 1.5 years. (Remember, meds are different with each person) Serzone is an interesting beast.  It was originally thought of as an anti-depressant and then moved towards the anxiety/PD arena.  Through my reading and a top notch local doctor, I found that Serzone can actually INCREASE anxiety in some folks.  I was one of those folks. Serzone did a great job of helping me sleep and has little sexual side effects.  The downside for me was increased low level anxiety. My doctor put me on a very low dose of Xanax (.25mg 3 times daily).  That helped some.  He also increased the Serzone level slowly until my depression was under control.  (He says that Serzone seems to work only at certain dosage levels for each person). I had taken Zoloft for a number of years and tried Paxil after that due to an increase in PAs.  As a final fine tuning, he put me on a low dose of Zoloft.  The combo of Serzone, Xanax, and Paxil was a homerun.  I’ve been in great shape for a long time now. I will note that I also strongly believe in therapy to assist the meds.  I have learned a ton about breathing and relaxation techniques.  I also have learned about self-hypnosis from a terrific therapist.  Finally, I understand myself better and can think through the tough situations that are side-effects of having Panic/Anxiety for a long time. Good luck all.

Response:

As stated above, I STILL have low level shakiness and slight headaches and I am on 150mg twice daily, BUT it is getting better!!!! I have been on 300mg twice daily for 4 weeks. I am thinking about moving from 150 twice daily to 200mg A.M. and 150 P.M. if the docs will do it. I felt better after my increase to 300 but it took a couple of days. I have read that is very common after an increase. I have never heard of a 1x daily dosage and I have also read and heard that a therapuetic dose is between 200-400mg daily. Stick with it as we are all feeling the same symptoms and maybe we can sort this out better with good communication between us! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

Response:

Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

Response:

I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

Response:

Have been on serzone 300mg daily for 4 weeks. Ramped up from 200 after 10 days. I have been helped by serzone quite a bit! I have never had real relief however from the slight dizzy feelings and the general visual "trailing" or blurring of images when you move your head to look at something else. I have xanax .25 but only take them as needed. I do not take serzone on a full stomach and have not noticed nausea. I also had low grade headache and for me, mostly pressure in the back of my head before I increased to 300. Also started with a psych doc about 3 weeks ago but I cannot say it is helping much yet or if it will at all. I am going to try to get on ativan to try to combat the low level shaky feelings I seem to still have almost daily, very subtle but not enough to take a xanax as they as so short lived I don’t burn one for the shaky feelings, I just try to ride them out. Good luck on the serzone, it does work for a majority of people.I have consulted a psych doc and the real theraputic dose is 200-400mg daily but they cannot give you that much to start, you MUST ramp up to a higher dose slowly. Do not up it yourself ! Let the group know how you are progressing. It does get better! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

Response:

HI Rocky, Can you explin what you mean by "visual trails"? I am having what I think is trailing but I have not seen a definition online. Thank You – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

Response:

Hi Perry, I began with 50mg daily back on Sep 18th and gradually (weekly) built up to my current target dose of 300mg split into morning and evening. Yes, I did have some headaches, weird skin sensations, nausea and dizziness for the first few days of each increase but they always diminished after that. I found that it helped me GREATLY to take each dose with food (someone here recommended that to me) I have only been at my target dose for about three weeks now and it took quite awhile to notice real improvement, but is has now helped very much. I am sleeping better, have my appetite back, and NO PA’s for past three weeks. In fact I have only had 4-5 of them since starting the Serzone where I was having them 3-4 times a week. I still notice some very minimal side effects but nothing bad-some nausea and a weird skin sensation..kinda like cold chills, about an hour after each dose..I call this the "hit" but it passes quickly. I took .5mg Klonopin with each dose as I built up but noticed I was feeling very sleepy so I cut it back gradually to .25mg with each dose and now I feel less tired for sure. Next step for me is to try eliminating the Klonopin and I think I can do it since the Serzone is helping so much, but if not, no big deal because I am taking only a tiny amount. For me, this drug is the first one to really help me. I have been through Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Paxil. None of these others were for me I guess. Hey you guys on Serzone!! How about jumping in here? Debbie, Karen, Eric, Steve, BG and others??? Take care,

Response:

 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

I seem to have gathered the information that Serzone is not really a first choice med for PAD (although remarkably quite some people here have positive reports) but works well when used in conjunction with Xanax. (Maybe you could try Xanax instead of Klonopin, which also seems logical as Xanax will often kill breakthrough PA’s within 15 minutes and you already have a maintenance med in Serzone). Philip (FWIW)

Response:

 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

Response:

hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry

Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

Response:

Question:

I’ve had Tinnitus for about 2 years now even though I didn’t realize what it was until last week.  I haven’t yet been to a doctor, but will make an appointment soon, although after reading this NG, I’m not sure what good it will do. About two years ago I started taking Zoloft.  If I missed a dose or was late with a dose, I would get a loud buzzing in my head.  In addition to the constant loud buzzing, I would also get very strong ‘jolts’ in my head which also made me very dizzy – but only for the moment that I had the ‘jolts’.  Of course these jolts could happen several times a minute and would happen off and on for hours.  I tried to make sure that I didn’t miss any doses.  I mentioned this to my friend John who was also taking Zoloft and he told me he had the same problem.  We called them ‘brain farts’. I asked the shrink who was prescribing the Zoloft about this and he told me that it was all in my head ( isn’t that what I said ?? ;-} ). He said that Zoloft CAN’T cause that.  Well I knew he was wrong, so I got up on the net ** and read about some other people who experienced the same thing.  After taking Zoloft for about a year, I decided that I wanted off.  So I tapered down and went through really bad episodes of these brain farts.  I’ve been off Zoloft for about a year now and the brain farts are no more, but I still have the (sometimes) very loud buzzing in my head. I’d heard of T before, but didn’t think that’s what was happening to me because T is a ringing in the ears, not a buzzing inside the head which is what I have.  One night last week, as I was *trying* to sleep, it dawned on me again to check the net. **  First I looked up T and found that, I think it was 24% of people with T report that it’s a buzzing in the head not a ringing in one or both ears.  Bingo.  Then I looked up T AND Zoloft and found that T is one of the potential side effects of Zoloft occurring in a study in 1.6% of the people who take it.  Anything over 1% is considered significant.  Bingo #2. I don’t think I’ve had any hearing loss due to the T.  I’ve always had trouble hearing if there’s any background noise, and as my friend John put it, now I come with my own built in background noise! Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this? bill ps remove the first ‘x’ in the email address to send email ** don’t ya just love the net?

Response:

xbtr…@concentric.net (Bill Truax) wrote:

Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this?

…………………………. Here’s what I would do. Join the American Tinnitus Association, and talk with other folks who have had tinnitus.  Find out what approaches have been successful for them.  When you find an approach and a facility which in your judgement are most compatible with your needs, I will absolutely assure you that it will not be part of the Kaiser plan.  So then speak with the office manager at the facility you have chosen, express your interest in paying cash for the service, and request information about the uniqueness (and success rate) of that particular program, which you then will present to the client services representative of your Kaiser plan to see if an appeal will result possibly in partial or complete remuneration to you! By your own analysis, your health care plan "sucks."  That does not necessarily mean that your health care must follow suit, but typically it will cost you!  Remember, Kaiser is cut rate coverage (again the colorful word "sucks" comes to mind), and in the end … in life you generally get what you pay for!  Hence, the national trend actually AWAY from HMO’s! Best of luck. nagler Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS Director Southeastern Comprehensive Tinnitus Clinic Atlanta, Georgia http://www.tinn.com (404) 531-3979

Response:

Welcome, Bill. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home. Bruce Seattle

Response:

Thanks for the info.  I’ll keep it in mind when I get around to seeing someone about this.  At this point, this has been going on for 2 years, and it hasn’t driven me nuts yet, although before I realized what it was, I thought I was going nuts a few times.  I never mentioned it to a single person until last week when I figured out what it was.  Just knowing what it is can be a big help. I’ll be sure to let you all know if anything happens with the doctors. Thanks again, bill btr…@concentric.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stephen Nagler wrote: xbtr…@concentric.net (Bill Truax) wrote:

Ok, long story for a simple question for y’all.  I have Kaiser Health, which in my opinion sucks.  I have to see a GP before pursuing anything else.  Once I get through that, what should I be asking for? What type of specialist should I insist on seeing about this? …………………………. Here’s what I would do. Join the American Tinnitus Association, and talk with other folks who have had tinnitus.  Find out what approaches have been successful for them.  When you find an approach and a facility which in your judgement are most compatible with your needs, I will absolutely assure you that it will not be part of the Kaiser plan.  So then speak with the office manager at the facility you have chosen, express your interest in paying cash for the service, and request information about the uniqueness (and success rate) of that particular program, which you then will present to the client services representative of your Kaiser plan to see if an appeal will result possibly in partial or complete remuneration to you! By your own analysis, your health care plan "sucks."  That does not necessarily mean that your health care must follow suit, but typically it will cost you!  Remember, Kaiser is cut rate coverage (again the colorful word "sucks" comes to mind), and in the end … in life you generally get what you pay for!  Hence, the national trend actually AWAY from HMO’s! Best of luck. nagler Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS Director Southeastern Comprehensive Tinnitus Clinic Atlanta, Georgia http://www.tinn.com (404) 531-3979

Response:

Thanks, it’s appreciated.  I may be the silent guest at the table for a while, since at this point I have more to learn than contribute, but I am here. bill btr…@concentric.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bruce F. Meyers wrote:

Welcome, Bill. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home. Bruce Seattle

Response: