Anyway, I have noticed since I have been on the inhalers, intal and azmacort both 2 puffs 3 times a day, I seem to get periods of overheating and sweating.
I dont know if this is so much an effect of the meds, as it is an effect of the asthma. After all, you are WORKING at breathing more than a non asthmatic. I have noticed, though, that my menstrual hot flashes are rather severe, and seem especially bad if I am wheezing. Jennifer
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently diagnosed with Asthma (1 month ago). I had symptoms for approximately 6 months prior and finally went to a doctor when I woke up one night and could barely get a breath. (I used my wife’s proventil inhaler and was able to breathe again – she also has asthma). Anyway, I have noticed since I have been on the inhalers, intal and azmacort both 2 puffs 3 times a day, I seem to get periods of overheating and sweating. The only relation to exertion is that when I do exert myself, the overheating and sweating increases significantly. My wife has also suffered from these "sweats" for the last couple of years. She is on azmacort and servent. Is this a side effect of these two medications or one of the medications or is it just one more thing I and my wife have to deal with that goes along with being an asthmatic? Any thoughts would be appreciated. John The road to wisdom begins somewhere! 
I tried Flovent and did not like it. It did not seem to work as well as
Beconase. P. Upchurch
I was recently diagnosed with Asthma (1 month ago). I had symptoms for approximately 6 months prior and finally went to a doctor when I woke up one night and could barely get a breath. (I used my wife’s proventil inhaler and was able to breathe again – she also has asthma). Anyway, I have noticed since I have been on the inhalers, intal and azmacort both 2 puffs 3 times a day, I seem to get periods of overheating and sweating. The only relation to exertion is that when I do exert myself, the overheating and sweating increases significantly. My wife has also suffered from these "sweats" for the last couple of years. She is on azmacort and servent. Is this a side effect of these two medications or one of the medications or is it just one more thing I and my wife have to deal with that goes along with being an asthmatic? Any thoughts would be appreciated. John The road to wisdom begins somewhere!
Hot flashes do occur in some people using these medicines. In recent years asthma has been found to be related to the adrenal gland and the release of adrenalin. It happens to me occassionally but I always attributed it to the Azmacort I use. Hope this helps.
I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
Current asthma guidelines are that the asthmatic use an Action Plan to adjust medications, based on peak flow readings and symptoms. The goal is to keep lung function in the Green Zone (80% personal best), but at the same time minimize the amount of inhaled steroid used or/and Serevent. Opinions differ as to whether Serevent or inhaled steroids should be reduced first. During an exacerbation when peak flow readings drop into Yellow Zone (50-80% PB) typically inhaled steroids are doubled and Ventolin used as needed. Ellis
Chris Writes: I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
Greetings fellow Chris, I have recently been taken off Serevent and Flovent, I had only taken Flovent for a few weeks before I was taken off of it but the Serevent I was on for a long time. I don’t think I tapered off of the drugs, I think I just stopped them cold turkey. I had no problems with them though, but then again I have been taking various Asthma medications since I was born so I am used to it. Chris Have Asthma? Check out the IRC channel #Asthma on ChatNet. Fun and support for all asthma sufferers.
Chris, The asthma guidelines indicate: If you’re taking none or very little ventolin. First cut down on serevent. If you’re okay after a couple of weeks start cutting down Flixotide . About 25% – 30% gradual reduction over 2 months . Then slowly reduce over another couple of months. Always keep a ventolin on you just in case. It took me ages to find this out! Janet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
I had tried Accolate without much luck. I am now on Singulair. My doctor’s hope was not to replace the Flovent, but to reduce it. I used to trigger very quickly when I hit the top numbers of my yellow zone, but now I seem not to trigger so quick. This its self is a big help.
Hi, Accolate is a good preventive medication. There are some report that it can help some of the symptoms of allergic rhintis. I use it to some of my pateints older than 12 years old. For those with problems during or after exercise I use Serevent which lasts up to 12 hours. I am using Singulair, another leukotriene receptor antagonist to some of patients as young as 6 years old. It is given only once a day. I am no sure if it is approved in Canada. If you want to read more about Singulair and other new reserch in asthma visit our website www.e-asthma.com Leo
I’ve been finding that it is doing a pretty good job of controlling my symptoms, certainly as good as the steroids or better. It did appear to be doing wonders for my eczema, though my season for this is now over so it is hard to draw conclusions. I notice, however, that my symptoms were resurfacing when one of my main triggers rolled into town — high humidity for several weeks. The humidity having tapered down, though, I have even been able to get in some fairly intensive short-term biking runs with no problems (using salbutamol as a preventative prior to exercise) and I feel great afterward, my lungs actually working for once.
You should discuss an ‘asthma action plan’ with your doctor. This is a written set of instructions (tailored for _you_) that instructs when to increase or decrease your medications. I’d be interesting in hearing how others are doing with this and related medications. I’m particularly interested in the one which can be taken WITH food, as even two pills a day outside of meals can be a pain with my crazy schedules.
You seem to be one of the lucky people. According to the manufactuer about 75% of the people who try Accolate benefit – while antecodal reports in the newsgroup indicates that for 50% of the people it is the greatest stuff invented, but it has no effect (of any sort) on the other 50%. There is a new medication that has been released in the US called ‘Singulair’. It works in a manner similar to Accolate but only needs to be taken once a day and you do not have to worry about meals.
I haven’t noticed anything recently on the ng, and was wondering what results people are achieving with Accolate or other leukotriene receptor antagonist medication (Lra’s?).
[...] I’d be interesting in hearing how others are doing with this and related medications. I’m particularly interested in the one which can be taken WITH food, as even two pills a day outside of meals can be a pain with my crazy schedules.
I started Singulair (montelukast sodium) about two months ago. It’s a once-a-day medication, which I take at night. I have been feeling much better, and have not used MaxAir for weeks (I still use Serevent twice a day). It doesn’t seem to have improved my breath meter results, but people tell me that I sound and look better. A number of friends and acquaintances have complained about their allergies recently, but I haven’t noticed anything. Also, I sing in a chorus, and I am now able to sing in a higher range with more volume than previously.
I haven’t noticed anything recently on the ng, and was wondering what results people are achieving with Accolate or other leukotriene receptor antagonist medication (Lra’s?). I’ve got what I would call mild but persistent athsma. My athsma has been worsening for the past five years, I typically have normal peak flow readings (when tested), and I’ve had a few real attacks. My known triggers in quasi order of severity are: cold/dry air(!!!), humid air(!!!), grass pollen(!), tree pollen(!), mould, mildew, cats, wet dogs (not dust mites). I suspect I have some very minor food allergies, but haven’t tested for them. I also live with three cats, to my allergists chagrin. I also have a mild case of eczema which flares up during the dry air conditions of the Canadian winter; I have developed very dry/cracking skin on my hands during the winter. Having spent a few years with only a rescue inhaler (Salbutamol/Ventilin), I started taking a low inhaled steroid dose (100-200 mcg/day) last fall due to worsening symptoms. Now that Accolate is finally available in Canada, I have started using it as a replacement for the steroids that I never wanted (6 weeks now). I’ve been finding that it is doing a pretty good job of controlling my symptoms, certainly as good as the steroids or better. It did appear to be doing wonders for my eczema, though my season for this is now over so it is hard to draw conclusions. I notice, however, that my symptoms were resurfacing when one of my main triggers rolled into town — high humidity for several weeks. The humidity having tapered down, though, I have even been able to get in some fairly intensive short-term biking runs with no problems (using salbutamol as a preventative prior to exercise) and I feel great afterward, my lungs actually working for once. I’d be interesting in hearing how others are doing with this and related medications. I’m particularly interested in the one which can be taken WITH food, as even two pills a day outside of meals can be a pain with my crazy schedules. Dave Anderson (Ottawa, ON Canada) — [Reply to e-mail address modified to prevent spamming]
Dear Iris, The best way to avoid this problem is to use a preventive inhaler that reduces your need for bronchodilator. How often do you use the bronchodilator? Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris —
Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward.
I have found that using a spacer helps. When I am at home I always use an ‘Optihaler’ spacer with my BD. Otherwise my already poor handwriting becomes totally unreadable.
Dear Iris, The best way to avoid this problem is to use a preventive inhaler that reduces your need for bronchodilator. How often do you use the bronchodilator? Ken
Hi Ken: I’m also on Pulmicort and since I’ve only been on these meds a little over two weeks I have noticed I need the BD less and less. But it still gives me the jitters and I still need it before I exericise in very hot or very cold weather so that’s at least 4-5x/week right now. This morning was the first morning in about 5 days that I woke up and felt I needed the BD. It was also the most humid and hot mornign we’ve had so far this year, so I guess there’s a connection. Iris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris —
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris
Well, if ya can’t stop the jitters, at least have fun with them: 1. Hold a glass of milk and ice cream in your hand. Use your BD, and in a few minutes, you have a milkshake 2. Pretend you’re on the Comedy Central show Dr. Katz. 3. Take your BD. Go to work, and complain about the job stress. Mention that you have a subscription to Soldier of Fortune. When you are shaking the most, ask your boss for a vacation. 4. Two words: Human vibrator. 5. Clean the house. You’ll get it done twice as fast. 6. Scare people on the subway. This won’t work if you live in New York though. They’re used to everything. The scary thing is, I’m so used to the jitters, I can write neatly while shaking like a jumping bean. Woodinat Joel: What do you want for Christmas, Crow? Crow: I wanna decide who lives and who dies Joel: Oh, I don’t know…
ROFLMAO & PMP! If you can’t laugh at it, you’re sunk! -Joopie
I can only reiterate that Tornalate is a good beta agonist inhaler for me. I have rarely gotten the jitters on it. When I was in the hospital, the respiratory therapists knew it and exclaimed it was a superior product. It comes in MDI, and solution for nebulizer, and I have used it both ways. Don’t need it very often these days, but always carry it, in case. Made by Dura, I have no connection with them, but don’t understand why I seem to be the only one using it. I want to make sure they stay in business, in case… See if you can get a sample, that’s how I discovered it, and a good thing it was, ’cause I had to bring my sample to the hospital until they could order some for their pharmacy. It seems I’m allergic to albuterol. I have seen it listed in the FAQ for this group, wherever that is now. Good luck,
Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I
get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris<< — Sue M.
Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s?
I never got jitters from my BD’s until my 50th .. now the non-jittery periods are what’s temporary. get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward.
Oh, you didn’t mean birthdays? Never mind. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris Well, if ya can’t stop the jitters, at least have fun with them:
May I ask you’re credentials for prescribing such radical therapy? 1. Hold a glass of milk and ice cream in your hand. Use your BD, and in a few minutes, you have a milkshake
How do you know she isn’t allergic to milk proteins or lactose? Such an irresponsible suggestion may actually precipitate an attack. 2. Pretend you’re on the Comedy Central show Dr. Katz.
Is that M.D. or jsut a Ph.D.? 4. Two words: Human vibrator.
Take your smut to an alt.sex. channel prevert! 5. Clean the house. You’ll get it done twice as fast.
another irresponsible suggestion! — she’ll probably raise twice as much dust and dust mite dander and end up in the ER. 6. Scare people on the subway. This won’t work if you live in New York though. They’re used to everything.
Is this just speculation or can you cite relevant articles? The scary thing is, I’m so used to the jitters, I can write neatly while shaking like a jumping bean.
However, your normal penmanship is probably completely illegible. You MUST be a doctor.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I never got jitters from my BD’s until my 50th .. now the non-jittery periods are what’s temporary. get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. Oh, you didn’t mean birthdays? Never mind. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris Well, if ya can’t stop the jitters, at least have fun with them: May I ask you’re credentials for prescribing such radical therapy? 1. Hold a glass of milk and ice cream in your hand. Use your BD, and in a few minutes, you have a milkshake How do you know she isn’t allergic to milk proteins or lactose? Such an irresponsible suggestion may actually precipitate an attack. 2. Pretend you’re on the Comedy Central show Dr. Katz. Is that M.D. or jsut a Ph.D.? 4. Two words: Human vibrator. Take your smut to an alt.sex. channel prevert! 5. Clean the house. You’ll get it done twice as fast. another irresponsible suggestion! — she’ll probably raise twice as much dust and dust mite dander and end up in the ER. 6. Scare people on the subway. This won’t work if you live in New York though. They’re used to everything. Is this just speculation or can you cite relevant articles? The scary thing is, I’m so used to the jitters, I can write neatly while shaking like a jumping bean. However, your normal penmanship is probably completely illegible. You MUST be a doctor.
Hey, you out ‘natted the Small Woodinat Creature! Congrats! Woodinat Joel: What do you want for Christmas, Crow? Crow: I wanna decide who lives and who dies Joel: Oh, I don’t know…
Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters?
Read a book. Take a bubble bath. Meditate. Pick the relaxer of your choice, and go to it. Chris Owens
Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris —
I believe that some BDs will have more effect on you than others. The dose will probably also make a difference. If you are having problems with unacceptable (to you) side effects I suggest you go back to your MD (US speak) or GP (UK speak). If you are having to use your BD often (e.g. most days or several times a day) it may indicate the need to review the rest of your treatment. Since I started inhaled steroids I’ve needed the BD maybe 10 times, in as many months, and 1 puff instead of the 2 at a time I was using before. The usual cause is that I used to get ‘caught short’ getting another steroid inhaler when the current one ran out, and so my inhaled steroid dose got reduced. A few days later I would get a bit ‘clogged up’. Now I have a spare – one on, one clean and one in the wash (the repeat prescription request form!) so to speak. At my level of use I’m not bothered about the jitters and they are less since it’s only 1 puff. For the very few weeks when the BD was my only medicine I was not happy about the prospect at all. I suspect my workmates wern’t either! Any advice on how to deal with the temporary jitters you get from BD’s? I get jittery, my hands tremble slightly. It lasts for about 20 minutes to a half hour but it drives me crazy. I avoid taking my BD unless I absolutely have to, but when my chest is congested and I break down and take it, I can really cough up lots of stuff and clear everything out. I do feel better afterward. What does one do to get through the jitters? Iris
– Surfer! http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk/flash Hopeful anti-spam: alter double ‘w’ to single ‘w’ to view site & send Email.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am hoping someone may have some suggestions/advice for me. I have been diagnosed with ADD for which I take Concerta (36 mgs at 6:00 am). This has helped me quite a bit. I however start to feel tense and anxious in the afternoon which will build up until I take 100 mg Seroquel about 1/2 hour before sleeping. I work in the computer field which I enjoy very much. I can’t seem to let my work go and am constantly studying and extremely curious about computers/networks in general. It seems I am always thinking out scenarios in my head about various ways to do things. The problem is that this compulsive thinking is leading to my anxious state. My dr. has tried me on numerous meds such as paxil, zoloft, effexor, luvox, depakote, lithium, remeron, wellebutrin, etc. I am not depressed, I just am (and have always been) somewhat hyper and cannot relax. It seems any med that works with serotonin just gives me bad headaches. I respond easily to Klonipin, not so well with Antivan. I guess I have ADD and am somewhat obsessive/compulsive. Erv
ever try strattera? or good old tca meds like imipramine? LM — The charter is available at:
Hanging on by my nails. Moved to Georgia. My ex and Maria came too to try to keep family together for her. I am assistant to a professor and go back out for teaching this season (next month) if can get energy up . . . could not handle effexor withdrawal so I put myself back on this weekend. I need my zyprexa, but can’t have it. Side effects put me in this damn wheel chair. Not a single friend here. I know Aware here, but not together enough to ask to meet yet. Hard time doing my work — any work — really feel scared and hopeless and I am so aware that in the end the sick must have willpower or they can simply end up on a curb with dirty matted hair . . . very scared. Rosena
Hanging on by my nails. Moved to Georgia. My ex and Maria came too to try to keep family together for her. I am assistant to a professor and go back out for teaching this season (next month) if can get energy up . . . could not handle effexor withdrawal so I put myself back on this weekend. I need my zyprexa, but can’t have it. Side effects put me in this damn wheel chair. Not a single friend here. I know Aware here, but not together enough to ask to meet yet. Hard time doing my work — any work — really feel scared and hopeless and I am so aware that in the end the sick must have willpower or they can simply end up on a curb with dirty matted hair . . . very scared. Rosena
hi rosena. i’m in sc. met aware once, she is nice. mabey we could have an atlanta meet? dennis Death Be Not Proud by John Donne: Death be not proud, though some have called thee Mighty and dreadful, for, thou art not so,
Hanging on by my nails. Moved to Georgia. My ex and Maria came too to try to keep family together for her. I am assistant to a professor and go back out for teaching this season (next month) if can get energy up . . . could not handle effexor withdrawal so I put myself back on this weekend. I need my zyprexa, but can’t have it. Side effects put me in this damn wheel chair. Not a single friend here. I know Aware here, but not together enough to ask to meet yet. Hard time doing my work — any work — really feel scared and hopeless and I am so aware that in the end the sick must have willpower or they can simply end up on a curb with dirty matted hair . . . very scared. Rosena
Hello 
) Sorry you’re having it so tough at the moment – but good luck with the new job! Whiskery Hugs {{{{{Rosena}}}}} — — Whiskers
i am slowly going insane being invisible
But you’re NOT, you’re probably lonely. My therp reminds me all the time: "Social isolation is considered severe punishment in prison."
i am slowly going insane being invisible
Honey, I wasn’t even here yesterday. But I am now, and you’re not invisible. ***** Melissa "The wood is tired, and the wood is old. But we’ll make it fine if the weather holds. But if the weather holds, then we’ll have missed the point. That’s where I need to go." –Indigo Girls
i am slowly going insane being invisible
i am slowly going insane being invisible
I can see you. Mary Beth
Well met, Adam. Boy ARE you in the right place. Birds of a feather and all that. I hate the insomnia. It sucks the most because I know next comes the deep depression.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, i am new to this group, and from what i have read so far i will fit in just cosy. I have now been up for 47 hours, and although i am real tired as soon as my head hits the pillow i wake up again. The thought s in my head just dont stop.. You are useless, whats the point, nobody wants you… you cant even committ suicide without screwing up….so i sit here in front of my pc moping, waching the weekend drift by, not seeing anyone, not talking to any one. Occasionaly speaking on icq to an aquaintance, but then they rush off and do stuff constructive in their busy lives, and i sit and clean out my hard drive. Tomorrow is Monday, and i return to work. carry out the day and return to my pc….God I am so sad… what is the point??
Welcome to the jungle! Welcome to the jungle! It’s gonna bring you down. huh! Guns and Roses Sorry just being dramatic. :^) Gloria
Well, i am new to this group, and from what i have read so far i will fit in just cosy. I have now been up for 47 hours, and although i am real tired as soon as my head hits the pillow i wake up again. The thought s in my head just dont stop.. You are useless, whats the point, nobody wants you… you cant even committ suicide without screwing up….so i sit here in front of my pc moping, waching the weekend drift by, not seeing anyone, not talking to any one. Occasionaly speaking on icq to an aquaintance, but then they rush off and do stuff constructive in their busy lives, and i sit and clean out my hard drive. Tomorrow is Monday, and i return to work. carry out the day and return to my pc….God I am so sad… what is the point??
Welcome to ASD. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man *and* The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.
Well, i am new to this group, and from what i have read so far i will fit in just cosy. I have now been up for 47 hours, and although i am real tired as soon as my head hits the pillow i wake up again. The thought s in my head just dont stop.. You are useless, whats the point, nobody wants you… you cant even committ suicide without screwing up….so i sit here in front of my pc moping, waching the weekend drift by, not seeing anyone, not talking to any one. Occasionaly speaking on icq to an aquaintance, but then they rush off and do stuff constructive in their busy lives, and i sit and clean out my hard drive. Tomorrow is Monday, and i return to work. carry out the day and return to my pc….God I am so sad… what is the point??
Welcome to ASD. I am in the minority concerning sleep habits. When I go into "the pit," I become hypersomniac. A couple years ago, I went through a stretch in which I slept 14-15 hours per day. Of course, the waking hours were living hell. Plus, that much sleep (fitful sleep, I might add) is disorienting. It seems to have the end effect of no sleep at all. Anyway, I hope you get some sleep. Keep posting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, i am new to this group, and from what i have read so far i will fit in just cosy. I have now been up for 47 hours, and although i am real tired as soon as my head hits the pillow i wake up again. The thought s in my head just dont stop.. You are useless, whats the point, nobody wants you… you cant even committ suicide without screwing up….so i sit here in front of my pc moping, waching the weekend drift by, not seeing anyone, not talking to any one. Occasionaly speaking on icq to an aquaintance, but then they rush off and do stuff constructive in their busy lives, and i sit and clean out my hard drive. Tomorrow is Monday, and i return to work. carry out the day and return to my pc….God I am so sad… what is the point??
Before you buy.
Thank you all for the greetings, i dozed off at the keyboard. Lillith I am there. I am alienating the friends i have, and i dont mean to
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well met, Adam. Boy ARE you in the right place. Birds of a feather and all that. I hate the insomnia. It sucks the most because I know next comes the deep depression.
They still do not know for sure if Ecstasy even cause brain damage.
Yes it does!! Go to Medscape and use the key words "Ecstasy and brain damage", and see all the info there is. We`ve had two posters at this newsgroup that know of people that have devastating brain damage from using Ecstasy. In many case, the brain damage is a fate worse than death. Not to mention that people have died after using Ecstasy just ONE time. Jackie Here is a small sample of what is at Medscape: [Clinical and toxicologic aspects of the use of Ecstasy (see comments)] [Klinische en toxicologische aspecten van ecstasygebruik.] Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd 1998 Aug 29;142(35):1942-6 (ISSN: 0028-2162) Pennings EJ; Konijn KZ; de Wolff FA [Find other articles with these Authors] Leids Universitair Medisch Centrum, afd. Klinische Chemie, Leiden. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, the active compound of ecstacy (XTC) tablets) is a psychoactive amphetamine congener which in humans has a stimulatory effect and enhances feelings of openness and solidarity. MDMA is neurotoxic in animals. It depletes axonal serotonin stores, it inhibits serotonin synthesis by inhibiting tryptophan hydroxylase, and it inhibits the reuptake of serotonin into the neuron. These events lead to destruction of serotonergic axon terminals in animal brain. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors protect against the neurotoxic effects of MDMA. Binding of (+)[11C]McN-5652, a selective neuroligand for the serotonin transporter, is decreased in the brains of XTC-users. This indicates that XTC damages serotonergic axon terminals in human brain, also. We strongly advise against the use of XTC as the long-term clinical consequences are not known. In man, somatic life-threatening complications after XTC use include hyperthermia, hyponatraemia and liver failure. Psychiatric complications include psychosis, depression, panic disorder, and impulsive behaviour. The chronic psychosis responds poorly to therapy. Comment in: Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd 1998 Oct 17; 142(42):2321-2 [Ecstasy: psychostimulant, hallucinogen and toxic substance] [L'ecstasy: psychostimulant, hallucinogene et toxique.] Presse Med 1996 Sep 14;25(26):1208-12 (ISSN: 0755-4982) Burnat P; Le Brumant-Payen C; Huart B; Ceppa F; Pailler FM [Find other articles with these Authors] Laboratoire de Biochimie et de Toxicologie cliniques, Hopital d’Instruction des Armees Begin, Saint-Mande. MDMA or 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, more commonly called "ecstasy", is a drug classified as a stupefiant and increasingly used by young people for its stimulant and hallucinogen effects. This popular designer drug is often used in techno or rave parties and perceived by users as relatively harmless. It has however been associated with disorders of thermoregulation and has been the cause of several deaths. In addition, the drug has been shown to destroy serotonin receptors in the brain in the monkey and leads to serious physchiatric disorders and liver damage in man. Adverse reactions with 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA; ‘ecstasy’). Drug Saf 1996 Aug;15(2):107-15 (ISSN: 0114-5916) McCann UD; Slate SO; Ricaurte GA [Find other articles with these Authors] Unit on Anxiety Disorders, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, Maryland, USA. 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA; ‘ecstasy’) is an increasingly popular recreational drug in the US, Western Europe and Australia. In animals, including nonhuman primates, MDMA is known to damage brain serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine; 5-HT) neurons. It is not known whether MDMA damages serotonin neurons in the human brain but there is some indication that it may. Although the large majority of individuals who have used MDMA recreationally do not develop acute complications, as the popularity of MDMA has increased, so have reports of adverse nonpsychiatric and psychiatric consequences associated with use of the drug. Further, since manifestations of MDMA-induced serotonin injury might only become apparent with age, or under periods of stress, it is possible that some individuals with no apparent abnormalities might develop complications over time. High intensity dependence of auditory evoked dipole source activity indicates decreased serotonergic activity in abstinent ecstasy (MDMA) users. Neuropsychopharmacology 2000 Jun;22(6):608-17 (ISSN: 0893-133X) Tuchtenhagen F; Daumann J; Norra C; Gobbele R; Becker S; Pelz S; Sass H; Buchner H; Gouzoulis-Mayfrank E [Find other articles with these Authors] Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Medical Faculty of the University of Technology, Pauwelsstrasse 30, D-52074, Aachen, Germany. Neurotoxic damage of central serotonergic systems has been demonstrated in numerous animal studies after exposure to methylenedioxyamphetamines (ecstasy). A high intensity dependence of auditory evoked potentials and, particularly, of the tangential N1/P2 source activity has been associated with low levels of serotonergic neurotransmission in humans. We performed an auditory evoked potentials study in 28 abstinent recreational ecstasy users and two equally sized groups of cannabis users and nonusers. The ecstasy users exhibited an increase of the amplitude of the tangential N1/P2 source activity with higher stimulus intensities; whereas, both control groups failed to exhibit this feature. These data are in line with the hypothesis that abstinent ecstasy users present with diminished central serotonergic activity. This feature of information processing is probably related to the well-recognized neurotoxic potential of ecstasy. Our data indicate that recreational ecstasy use may cause long-term alterations in the function (and possibly structure) of the human brain.
Hi, I was
here before talking about worries I had about SSRI’s. I am not a doctor. I do
have a degree in Sociology (a B.A.), but this whole informal study of mine was
due to some concerns I had about restarting taking SSRIs. It seemed to some
of you that I thought they were awful, but that really was not the case. I’d
like to start posting non-related concerns, posts, etc., so I thought I should
clear up this old one first. Ok, here goes…. My Conclusion as of Now
(conclusions can always change): #1 – In light of the fact that panic and
anxiety can be debilitating and these meds have shown positive effects in
people, they are worth a shot and have few concerns attached to them. They are
almost totally harmless to the point that I would almost say they are not
harmless at all. *see note #1* #2 – It is my opinion and the opinion of many
doctors(at least I get the impression) that these meds are best used to "pick you up" out of a period of stress/depression and not for a lifetime. I say this mostly because one cannot always count on a medicine to work or to be available. There may be some very small long term concerns with the meds as
well. They are very small but worth a little "concern". In my opinion and from
what I have gathered, the best way to use an SSRI, Effexor, or Buspar is for a
short period of time to help you to overcome the problems. It is best to
actually overcome one’s problems by oneself and it is my belief that the meds
act as aides in your OWN recovery process, which when fully complete will see you medicine free. #3 – While I do not wish to put down these meds, I believe from experience that one should go about solving one’s problems with stress in
the following manner (a) Therapy of any sort in which no medicine is administered (b) Medicine with therapy (c) However one chooses to go when
one is "better" (relatively speaking- I am an optimist so I DO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -think one can get 100% better). #4 – This might be a bit of a rehash of another point, but it only makes logical sense to first try everything besides medication for the anxiety unless the anxiety becomes somewhat debilitating. Then, it makes sense to take a med for a period of time while working on the causes of the anxiety. This may seem like common sense so far. What I am REALLY trying to say is that there are SLIGHT risks associated with these meds and SIDE EFFECTS, so obviously the best approach possible would be to take no
meds at all. I say this because some of us have not tried everything out there
yet. EXAMPLE: Some of my major problems are specific phobias that grip me in
certain situations. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprogramming is supposed
to work for this. Also, Reiki or "the Healing Touch" has been proven
scientifically legitimate as a method of relieving stress. Some of us rush to
the medication without trying enough of the alternatives. I think it is wise to
FIRST try to deal with it without the meds or at least use the meds as a
"helper" while doing other therapy that will ultimately bring you to a stage of being as well as possible. #5 – When calculating the risks of the meds, one
should factor in what having the stress itself could possibly cause. In my case, I came to the conclusion that taking an SSRI again might be worth it to me because stress can cause heart attacks. Even if the SSRI itself may cause some minor physical problems (if they do they would be minor), the effect of taking away the stress would outweight the bad parts. #6 – The actual
concerns I still have to a small degree: Heart- Although, many medical
studies concluded that SSRI’s have no effect on the heart, I did find a couple
noting some problems in some people and in animals in the cardio area. One
noted that SSRIs affected Calcium and Sodium in some manner related to the heart – I don’t remember but the effect was related to Calcium and Sodium. I did not fully understand the significance of this, but I believe it is small. I also found some articles in which EKG’s were affected SLIGHTLY due to SSRIs.
HOWEVER, it should be noted that even people who have had heart attacks have
taken SSRIs and MOST do not have any problems. MOST of the elderly who take
these meds do not have cardio problems because of the meds. SO, what I would
say to do here is periodically get your heart checked to ensure that you do not
have any cardio problems. My main fear here comes from the fact that Trycyclics
and drugs such as Phen-Fen DID have effects on the heart that were
significantly bad. Studies show that the SSRIs are almost completely safe, but
*personally* I would periodically get my heart checked to ensure nothing was developing. Blood Pressure – Effexor does cause an elevation in blood pressure. For this reason, I will not even take Effexor. My blood pressure is perfect so, *personally* I will not take Effexor unless nothing helps at all. OR, I would perhaps try Effexor and see if it did not do this… If it did not, I might go with it. Brain – The study I noted about rats and
SSRIs and brain damage was not fully completed. That particular study showed
that rat brain cells shrunk and also took on "corkscrew-like" shapes. This was with a high dosage. I have since been alerted that my logic was wrong in this regard. Taking lower doses of the meds over time will not likely have this effect. However, the study did say "this raises concerns". For myself, I am considering the usage of the medicine a short term aide that
is part of a bigger plan. I wish there were more studies on the effect of SSRIs on the brain in the long term. I do not think they will cause serious problems unless one notices them during treatment. Most of the problems, such as tics, go away when the medicine is discontinued. Liver – There was some
literature that found that there were some concerns with liver enzymes but
these were again just concerns. They did not seem enough to make someone not
take the medicine. I believe the concerns were based on Prozac more than any other SSRI. Mental/Emotional Effects – I would like to further research this area. Sometimes and for some people, these meds can cause negative mental events, such as mania .04% in Sertraline (too much for me personally). Does anyone know if this is something that will either happen right away or could these pop up all of sudden??? I would hate to be taking an SSRI and then after 2 years or so on the med have an episode of mania. Is this
possible? I just don’t know right now. I tend to believe if the medicine does
not cause these effects after it is started that it will not cause them in the
future. Can anyone validify that??? Anyway, the point here is, as with anything
uncertain, the better path would be to use the meds to cope until one could get off of them. The actual risk of "going crazy" is really low. I apologize that I do not fully understand this aspect. Does anyone know if the people who "flip out" have it happen right away or if that can happen out of the blue once treatment is well underway????? Note: It is not unfair to say that these effects have happened. In some people they have. Parkinson’s –
They are not sure, but they believe the drug Ecstasy may cause Parkinson’s.
They found in the infamous rat study that the effects of SSRIs were similar to
that of Ecstasy. However, these studies did not have any definitive answers and
it should be noted that Ecstasy is a lot more potent of a medicine with a
different chemistry. I only used it here for comparison. So far, there is no
evidence linking SSRIs to Parkinson’s or brain damage. They still do not know for sure if Ecstasy even cause brain damage. Other: Some people get movement
disorders (small %). Circulatory problems have been noted as a possibility
(nothing life threatening I believe and in a small % people). The normal side effects have been reported as "not worth it" by some. How I have decided to
deal with these concerns: (a) Consider the treatment with an SSRI to be a short term solution. (b) Consider the small risk of mostly minor problems (most of the concerns- even minor brain damage can be overcome) to be insignificant in
comparison of the help the meds may bring to me. (c) Realize that the
percentages of people reporting any problems of any magnitude is very small. (d) Realize that right now it is all speculation, as it is possible that any long term "side effect" could be due to something else in that person’s life. Ex: Someone having a heart attack while on an SSRI does not necessarily mean they cause heart attacks. The most important
realization I have had: My psychiatrist(I hate the term "pdoc" -sorry) told
me that taking these meds is like taking Aspirin, Tylenol, or Advil. You can choose which to take and you can choose to stop them. I feel this is the best attitude. I still would heartily recommend checking oneself medically more frequently than other people may. I do not say this to cause anxiety in anyone. I say this because there are SLIGHT issues that are still being looked into regarding these medicines. I can show anyone who wants to see it the article on the actual effect on the heart (sounds minor- would
have to look up what this effect actually means/ it could mean really nothing at all). Also, I used to take Paxil and I think it did help me. It is very hard to tell for me as regular life can sometimes cause things to get better and worse. Anyway, I believe it did help and I know that the only real annoying problem was that if I took an entire 20mg pill before bed I would wake up exactly 6 hours later. I am considering going back on Paxil
or trying Zoloft. I don’t think I gave Paxil enough of a chance because I drank
coffee while taking it, so – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I will perhaps go with it again.
… read more »
NOTE: I lumped Effexor and Buspar in here. Effexor had many of the same effects of an SSRI. There really wasn’t too much info on Buspar. I read somewhere that they think Buspar might actually *help* people with Parkinson’s (read this in "Beyond Prozac") so that’s kind of encouraging as far as the safety issue.
Before you take an SSRI I think you should read about this. You won’t likely get it from taking too much of one SSRI (allegedly impossible to get it from just taking a lot of one SSRI), but you can get it when you mix certain meds. They think it only applies with MAO-Inhibitors and SSRIs. I could have sworn I read that it’s possible to get from mixing two different SSRIs, but that may not be true. Nonetheless, you should at least be aware of it as a phenomenon.
Hi, I was here before talking about worries I had about SSRI’s. I am not a doctor. I do have a degree in Sociology (a B.A.), but this whole informal study of mine was due to some concerns I had about restarting taking SSRIs. It seemed to some of you that I thought they were awful, but that really was not the case. I’d like to start posting non-related concerns, posts, etc., so I thought I should clear up this old one first. Ok, here goes…. My Conclusion as of Now (conclusions can always change): #1 – In light of the fact that panic and anxiety can be debilitating and these meds have shown positive effects in people, they are worth a shot and have few concerns attached to them. They are almost totally harmless to the point that I would almost say they are not harmless at all. *see note #1* #2 – It is my opinion and the opinion of many doctors(at least I get the impression) that these meds are best used to "pick you up" out of a period of stress/depression and not for a lifetime. I say this mostly because one cannot always count on a medicine to work or to be available. There may be some very small long term concerns with the meds as well. They are very small but worth a little "concern". In my opinion and from what I have gathered, the best way to use an SSRI, Effexor, or Buspar is for a short period of time to help you to overcome the problems. It is best to actually overcome one’s problems by oneself and it is my belief that the meds act as aides in your OWN recovery process, which when fully complete will see you medicine free. #3 – While I do not wish to put down these meds, I believe from experience that one should go about solving one’s problems with stress in the following manner (a) Therapy of any sort in which no medicine is administered (b) Medicine with therapy (c) However one chooses to go when one is "better" (relatively speaking- I am an optimist so I DO think one can get 100% better). #4 – This might be a bit of a rehash of another point, but it only makes logical sense to first try everything besides medication for the anxiety unless the anxiety becomes somewhat debilitating. Then, it makes sense to take a med for a period of time while working on the causes of the anxiety. This may seem like common sense so far. What I am REALLY trying to say is that there are SLIGHT risks associated with these meds and SIDE EFFECTS, so obviously the best approach possible would be to take no meds at all. I say this because some of us have not tried everything out there yet. EXAMPLE: Some of my major problems are specific phobias that grip me in certain situations. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprogramming is supposed to work for this. Also, Reiki or "the Healing Touch" has been proven scientifically legitimate as a method of relieving stress. Some of us rush to the medication without trying enough of the alternatives. I think it is wise to FIRST try to deal with it without the meds or at least use the meds as a "helper" while doing other therapy that will ultimately bring you to a stage of being as well as possible. #5 – When calculating the risks of the meds, one should factor in what having the stress itself could possibly cause. In my case, I came to the conclusion that taking an SSRI again might be worth it to me because stress can cause heart attacks. Even if the SSRI itself may cause some minor physical problems (if they do they would be minor), the effect of taking away the stress would outweight the bad parts. #6 – The actual concerns I still have to a small degree: Heart- Although, many medical studies concluded that SSRI’s have no effect on the heart, I did find a couple noting some problems in some people and in animals in the cardio area. One noted that SSRIs affected Calcium and Sodium in some manner related to the heart – I don’t remember but the effect was related to Calcium and Sodium. I did not fully understand the significance of this, but I believe it is small. I also found some articles in which EKG’s were affected SLIGHTLY due to SSRIs. HOWEVER, it should be noted that even people who have had heart attacks have taken SSRIs and MOST do not have any problems. MOST of the elderly who take these meds do not have cardio problems because of the meds. SO, what I would say to do here is periodically get your heart checked to ensure that you do not have any cardio problems. My main fear here comes from the fact that Trycyclics and drugs such as Phen-Fen DID have effects on the heart that were significantly bad. Studies show that the SSRIs are almost completely safe, but *personally* I would periodically get my heart checked to ensure nothing was developing. Blood Pressure – Effexor does cause an elevation in blood pressure. For this reason, I will not even take Effexor. My blood pressure is perfect so, *personally* I will not take Effexor unless nothing helps at all. OR, I would perhaps try Effexor and see if it did not do this… If it did not, I might go with it. Brain – The study I noted about rats and SSRIs and brain damage was not fully completed. That particular study showed that rat brain cells shrunk and also took on "corkscrew-like" shapes. This was with a high dosage. I have since been alerted that my logic was wrong in this regard. Taking lower doses of the meds over time will not likely have this effect. However, the study did say "this raises concerns". For myself, I am considering the usage of the medicine a short term aide that is part of a bigger plan. I wish there were more studies on the effect of SSRIs on the brain in the long term. I do not think they will cause serious problems unless one notices them during treatment. Most of the problems, such as tics, go away when the medicine is discontinued. Liver – There was some literature that found that there were some concerns with liver enzymes but these were again just concerns. They did not seem enough to make someone not take the medicine. I believe the concerns were based on Prozac more than any other SSRI. Mental/Emotional Effects – I would like to further research this area. Sometimes and for some people, these meds can cause negative mental events, such as mania .04% in Sertraline (too much for me personally). Does anyone know if this is something that will either happen right away or could these pop up all of sudden??? I would hate to be taking an SSRI and then after 2 years or so on the med have an episode of mania. Is this possible? I just don’t know right now. I tend to believe if the medicine does not cause these effects after it is started that it will not cause them in the future. Can anyone validify that??? Anyway, the point here is, as with anything uncertain, the better path would be to use the meds to cope until one could get off of them. The actual risk of "going crazy" is really low. I apologize that I do not fully understand this aspect. Does anyone know if the people who "flip out" have it happen right away or if that can happen out of the blue once treatment is well underway????? Note: It is not unfair to say that these effects have happened. In some people they have. Parkinson’s – They are not sure, but they believe the drug Ecstasy may cause Parkinson’s. They found in the infamous rat study that the effects of SSRIs were similar to that of Ecstasy. However, these studies did not have any definitive answers and it should be noted that Ecstasy is a lot more potent of a medicine with a different chemistry. I only used it here for comparison. So far, there is no evidence linking SSRIs to Parkinson’s or brain damage. They still do not know for sure if Ecstasy even cause brain damage. Other: Some people get movement disorders (small %). Circulatory problems have been noted as a possibility (nothing life threatening I believe and in a small % people). The normal side effects have been reported as "not worth it" by some. How I have decided to deal with these concerns: (a) Consider the treatment with an SSRI to be a short term solution. (b) Consider the small risk of mostly minor problems (most of the concerns- even minor brain damage can be overcome) to be insignificant in comparison of the help the meds may bring to me. (c) Realize that the percentages of people reporting any problems of any magnitude is very small. (d) Realize that right now it is all speculation, as it is possible that any long term "side effect" could be due to something else in that person’s life. Ex: Someone having a heart attack while on an SSRI does not necessarily mean they cause heart attacks. The most important realization I have had: My psychiatrist(I hate the term "pdoc" -sorry) told me that taking these meds is like taking Aspirin, Tylenol, or Advil. You can choose which to take and you can choose to stop them. I feel this is the best attitude. I still would heartily recommend checking oneself medically more frequently than other people may. I do not say this to cause anxiety in anyone. I say this because there are SLIGHT issues that are still being looked into regarding these medicines. I can show anyone who wants to see it the article on the actual effect on the heart (sounds minor- would have to look up what this effect actually means/ it could mean really nothing at all). Also, I used to take Paxil and I think it did help me. It is very hard to tell for me as regular life can sometimes cause things to get better and worse. Anyway, I believe it did help and I know that the only real annoying problem was that if I took an entire 20mg pill before bed I would wake up exactly 6 hours later. I am considering going back on Paxil or trying Zoloft. I don’t think I gave Paxil enough of a chance because I drank coffee while taking it, so I will perhaps go with it again. As far as other meds, I have not found anything really worrisome about Clonazepam except that some believe one can become addicted to it. I definitely have not become addicted to it. Anyway, I hope everyone realizes that I do think taking … read more »
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day? No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
I can identify. The thing that saves me from depression depresses me. I take Effexor now (for a couple of years) but it started half way through the Prozac (about 4 years into that 8-year stint). Tried Welbutrin but that made me really crazy. -seph [I'm paul but you already got one, so I'll be seph, as in joseph or persephone] ::: Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So ::: unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of ::: diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
Yes. It’s normal. Supplementary Wellbutrin may help. It is often used to ameliorate the sexual side effects caused by antidepressant medication, and has been shown in numerous clinical studies to be effective for this purpose. Speaking of Wellbutrin, it also so happens that Wellbutrin is an antidepressant in its own right, noteworthy for not having this particular side effect that you are complaining about. C//
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
my only intent on this matter… was to warn Karen that this is something she should be concerned about… and that she should be in contact with her dr……. You stated:" warnings are only to remind the drs" I would disagree. The pharmacies in this area give out a "patient information leaflet" on each medication that they fill. This is listed on the warnings that goes out to the patient. You also stated that is was "unfair" for me::" to characterize that prozac and serzone have the potential to cause suicidal tendancies. " I am not on the payroll for these companies…..(unfortunately 
) My only concern was to advise Karen b4 she attempted that warning… Tami…:) ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t believe tha your PDR states specifically that suicidal tendancies are a side effect of prozac or serzone. Instead, I believe that it says something slightly different. Am I right? my mistake.. it is not listed under side effects .it is listed under contraindications: "use with extreme caution in patients at risk for suicide." "monitor moods and allow minimal supply to be filled at pharmacy." my point being.. that u can feel this way while taking this medication and she needs to contact her dr. and be monitored so she does not follow thru on this. Yeah. Well, the reason I asked a question instead of made a statement is that I thought you might learn a bit better if you looked it up yourself. Anyway, suicidal ideation is a not uncommonly encountered symptom of depression itself. I thought I’d refine your post, because it’s really not fair to characterize prozac or other ad’s as contrib- uting to suicidal ideation. Medications that have such warnings usually do so to remind the physician that their patient may be suicidal; in fact, some medications — particularly those that can be overdosed — make this warning very clear so as to alert the physician to the possibility of using the medication itself as an instrument of suicide. C/
Serzone was the last anti-depressant I took last January through July. I have taken zolft, prozac, effexor, and trazodone when it comes to anti-depressants. Of all of them Effexor has worked the best. I am about to be put back on an anti-depressant for circumstances I don’t want to say, but I have been on about 18 meds because I am bipolar. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
I was also on Serzone for several months and found myself tearful most of the time,almost suicidal. I talked with my Md. and was changed to Celexa. I have found myself much better. Talk with your doctor as there are many more medicines that may help you. http://community.webtv.net/strawsmom/MERRYCHRISTMASTOALL
I don’t believe tha your PDR states specifically that suicidal tendancies are a side effect of prozac or serzone. Instead, I believe that it says something slightly different. Am I right? my mistake.. it is not listed under side effects .it is listed under contraindications: "use with extreme caution in patients at risk for suicide." "monitor moods and allow minimal supply to be filled at pharmacy." my point being.. that u can feel this way while taking this medication and she needs to contact her dr. and be monitored so she does not follow thru on this.
Yeah. Well, the reason I asked a question instead of made a statement is that I thought you might learn a bit better if you looked it up yourself. Anyway, suicidal ideation is a not uncommonly encountered symptom of depression itself. I thought I’d refine your post, because it’s really not fair to characterize prozac or other ad’s as contrib- uting to suicidal ideation. Medications that have such warnings usually do so to remind the physician that their patient may be suicidal; in fact, some medications — particularly those that can be overdosed — make this warning very clear so as to alert the physician to the possibility of using the medication itself as an instrument of suicide. C/
my mistake.. it is not listed under side effects .it is listed under contraindications: "use with extreme caution in patients at risk for suicide." "monitor moods and allow minimal supply to be filled at pharmacy." my point being.. that u can feel this way while taking this medication and she needs to contact her dr. and be monitored so she does not follow thru on this. tami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i got out my nursing drug handbook.. and as i thought .. it is a side effect of serzone, just as it is for prozac…suicidal tendancies. I don’t believe tha your PDR states specifically that suicidal tendancies are a side effect of prozac or serzone. Instead, I believe that it says something slightly different. Am I right? C/
i got out my nursing drug handbook.. and as i thought .. it is a side effect of serzone, just as it is for prozac…suicidal tendancies.
I don’t believe tha your PDR states specifically that suicidal tendancies are a side effect of prozac or serzone. Instead, I believe that it says something slightly different. Am I right? C/
i got out my nursing drug handbook.. and as i thought .. it is a side effect of serzone, just as it is for prozac…suicidal tendancies. u need to get in touch with your dr right away…. he needs to know this…. so he can change your med… 1 rule to follow..:u need to go to "one "pharmacy to get your drugs filled. so your pharmicist is aware of the meds u are on, for any drug interactions.. tami….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
I posted this before http://www.ozemail.com.au/~drobb/bms/pi.htm for info on Serzone. It has some interesting things to say. I use Valium when I need it and passed on the offers of Zoloft, Xanax, Prozac, and the like. I was already aware, from first hand observation of those taking them, of what they are capable of. I will stay with what I have, thank you. It may not be popular but it seems to be a whole lot safer if you don’t need the effects that the others bring. It may not be the best solution but it is one that works for me to take the edge off when needed. The best part is that I was allowed to use the minimum dosage and when I need it. The hard part is trying to get through those times when you may want to take it but you know the feelings will pass faster than the pill can take effect so you just tough it out. If you can do that, you have half the battle won. Good Luck.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -my mistake.. it is not listed under side effects .it is listed under contraindications: "use with extreme caution in patients at risk for suicide." "monitor moods and allow minimal supply to be filled at pharmacy." my point being.. that u can feel this way while taking this medication and she needs to contact her dr. and be monitored so she does not follow thru on this. tami i got out my nursing drug handbook.. and as i thought .. it is a side effect of serzone, just as it is for prozac…suicidal tendancies. I don’t believe tha your PDR states specifically that suicidal tendancies are a side effect of prozac or serzone. Instead, I believe that it says something slightly different. Am I right? C/
If you are hypo-thyroid and feeling suicidal 1) make sure your thyroid hormone level is adequate 2) get switched onto a T4/T3 combo And just because a TSH test was done and the numbers are in "the normal range" does NOT mean you are not hypo- there are problems with how the TSH normal range is calibrated, most MDs are not aware of the issues and questions about this. They are taught that the TSH test is definite, accurate and extremely sensitive — sensitive it is, but the accuracy depends upon how it is interpreted (not blindly) and it can never be definite — because there are forms of thyroid disease where TSH numbers become meaningless. T3 is one of the best anti-depressants in the shinks arsenal, most MDs however ignore or don’t know this. Depression and suicidal feelings are a symptom of hypo-, you may be undermedicated for hypo- or mis-diagnosed as NOT hypo- when you are. I know nothing about Serzone, I am not a medical doctor, do not change your medication without checking with your doctor(s) — Kevin G. Rhoads, Ph.D. (The Cheshire Cat for official Internet mascot.)
I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
Karen, The only idvise i can give, see your dokter. Efexor helped me get over the suicadal thoughts. taking now 300 mg, two times 150 mg. Kevin
You know, suicidal thoughts occur to a lot of people a lot of the time. There are days when it is a thought and something distracts you and you go about your business until the next time. Depression doesn’t help things either but staying busy and having an active social life is a tremendous help. Most of us here have had bouts with depression ( some severe and some accompanying PTSS ). My heart goes out to you. Please feel free to write if the need arises. I have found a link to the product information on Serzone. It may help you ( or even the others here to help ) you understand better how it works and if you should discuss it at length with your doctor ( my personal opinion from experience is to talk to them at length about it ). The link is http://www.ozemail.com.au/~drobb/bms/pi.htm and it goes into some depth so assistance from someone like Ted or one of the others that are more medically or chemically knowledgeable may be needed to understand it better and maybe explain it all to you in lay terms ( Lord knows I don’t understand it all ). If the thoughts of suicide become too much I suggest you get a hold of a friend and have them take you to the hospital for observation until it passes. Life is too short and precious to waste on a disease that is treatable. The hospital cannot keep you if you wish to leave so you shouldn’t worry about that, but, having caring people available with the knowledge to help will save you from doing anything rash. It would also be of benefit if a different type of medication needed in it’s place. From all that I can gather on Ativan, it is in the same family as Valium and has potential for dependence. Personally, I take Valium in as small a dose as possible when needed. I wouldn’t, however, discontinue use of your medication under any circumstance unless it is under observation and approval by a health professional. ( this doesn’t mean it has to be in a hospital but your doctor does need to know if you are discontiuing use as potential for withdrawl symptoms can cause complications ). Yes, you have a couple of issues that need to be resolved. I found that as the level of thyroid medication was increased I needed less and less of the Valium for the anxiety attack ( of course mine are PTSS related ). I’ve had to learn that they will pass in time and that I will be okay ( I can feel when they are coming on so I take a small dose of Valium at the onset ). Even without the Valium, I know it will pass but I try to stay active during the episodes ( it seems to help ). After learning to cope, the episodes tend to diminish in intensity when they do happen and so they happen less frequently than they used to. You may find you have similar result or find something else that works for you. In either case you need to talk to your doctor about it and discuss your options. Always remember you have people you can talk to and if nothing else, I monitor this group and my own mail regularly. Feel free to write if you need. You are not alone, even when you are by yourself. All you need to do is let someone know.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
A month and a half is just enough time to get onto the first rung, re: dose. Since his dose is not working well enough, ask your doctor about another step up. It is a long process to find the right med and the right dose… but it sounds like it may be too early to give up on this one yet. If you are having suicidal thoughts, the important thing is to NOT be alone, while your meds are adjusted and stabilize (which can take many weeks). Don’t be discouraged…. but also, don’t be alone until you are at a dose that works well enough. I was on serzone for 8 months over which i went from 50 mg/day up to 600mg/day. I liked serzone re: lack of adverse side effects, but it just wasn’t enough for me. It was thoughts (and detailed plans) of suicide at the 600mg/day level that got me to change (i.e. give up). The difficult part in any change is the interface, the drop out from one med, the drop in of the other. If you reach a point where you need to change meds, do not trust yourself being alone during this period. Ask a close friend to ride with you. Or if all else fails, the hospital is there to ensure that you are protected during these transitions. There is no shame. The right medication will help, and you will be glad, and safe, and free from the suicidal thoughts…. once you find it. Again, I think it may be too early for you to give up on the serzone yet… try higher doses with your pdoc (what dose are you on now?). For many people serzone is very effective, and it’s the one they stay with…. once the find the right dose. best wishes, Han
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
You should talk to the prescribing doctor (s) as soon as possible. What works for one of us may not work for you. Bob
I have been on Serzone a month and a half. I am afraid to be alone any time at all and I have a lot of suicidal thoughts…how can I safely get off and what other anti-depressant could I mix with it and start taking immediately that would be safe? I also take synthroid and ativan. Before you buy.
Perhaps we could start with defining self-worth, and considering evolutionary roots leading to it, or how it is seen (or not seen) in lower animals. Below is a suggestion of the meaning of "self worth." There are needs for certain aspects of belonginness. Perhaps self-worth would include an assessment of the probability of their being met. Perhaps this would also include an assessment of one’s "deservingness" of their being met, or in other words, an absence of shame or guilt. We might also consider that there may be brain based templates for such things as shame or guilt, such that if they are stimulated, or their conditions met, an unpleasant feeling is generated, which has the effect of modifying behavior. (more)
:– : Rational Negativism: : A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder : :Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for : love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement, : purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression, : suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e., :to : synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the : question: ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism : expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the :survivalistically : bizarre non-physical objective of maximizing self-worth?’ : If we view nature films of animals which live in groups, we find the existence of a heirarchy in many of them. Often that heirarchy is constantly shifting, and is frequently re-ordered. Sometimes, an individual is on the low end so often, he becomes a permanently low-status member. He is fearful, and doesn’t even dare to challenge a higher-status member. Since the capacity for this behavior is species-wide, there must be templates for those behaviors involved. Certainly, one can not impose them on reptiles, or solitary animals like certain cats. Coincidentally, those seem to be the same animals which are prone to domestication. What are those templates? How about feelings, such as shame, guilt, fear, a feeling of "less than," of being impressed with another who is "more than." In other words, feelings of a lack of self-worth. And why do some individuals strive to change the pecking order? Because those feelings are unpleasant, and they wish for them to be lost. The way to lose those feelings is to increase one’s status, and with an absence of shame and fear, one has a greater feeling of self-worth. Viewing this in an evolutionary way, why would it happen? For one thing, a group is more efficient in meeting its needs if it is organized. For another, lower status enhances cooperation. And it may be that the higher status individuals breed more often, passing along the genes of the stronger members of the group more frequently than those of the weaker ones. Thus, it is advantageous that the lower ones should strive for higher status, as a test of their potential for ancestry of a future group. And it may be advantageous if the bolder ones lead the group in defending against intruders. Consequently, we have negative feelings and if not opposite feelings, then at least the absence of the negative ones. There is also an element of confidence. With confidence, one feels that his behavior is likely to produce a desired result. And he feels that he has the personal ability to carry out the behaviors. Consequently, he is more likely to act when he is unable to know the outcome, than would a less confident individual. Feelings of self-worth seem to be necessary for one to have confidence, and energy to carry out a plan. With the problem of bipolar disorder, this mechanism seems to go astray. The person attains such high confidence, he gambles on high risk propositions. He has the energy to do a lot of work, and may be aggressive without purpose, as if he were at the top of a pack. Then he swings toward the opposite end, and lacks all confidence, lacks all energy, as if he were at the very bottom. Is it possible that bipolar disorder means that existing templates for feelings and behavior are being triggered without environmental information which generally does that? :Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is : also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in : maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to : extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate :monks, self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.). : We have imposed culture upon our biological nature. Where other creatures might be satisfied to find a place within a small pack, humans overlay their learning on this impulse, and seek through displays of wealth or education to gain the esteem of others, to bolster their self-esteem. They may be holier than thou, humbler than thou, stronger or more beautiful, wherever they might find their niche. Their learning may communicate to them that better means more powerful or more envied, or that better means more right. :Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability :(i.e., : maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth). : :Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination : of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.) : to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too, : these more global concerns and values can themselves become : reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective : considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional : disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from : precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can : reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from : one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well. : Negative information can cause negative feelings, but negative feelings can also cause all information to seem negative. There is also a theory that depression has an evolutionary survival function. There was an observation of I think, some perigrene falcons, which mate for life. The female did not return to the nest, and the male waited for her until he starved to death. It was concluded that this was not helpful to the species, and therefore, depression was a fluke of nature. However, what would have happened if he had eventually concluded that she was not returning, and he was hungry and needed to find a meal? Possibly the behavior of mating for life would have been weakened, which is connected to the survival of that species. So if that happened a lot, and such birds passed along their genes and increased in number, the behavior may have diminished or disappeared, together with its survival function. So a very strong motivation to be loyal to the partner to the very end, possibly contributes to the survival of that species. Consequently, depression is not without its function there (assuming the bird was depressed, of course.) :Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some : explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would : seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating : different levels or degrees of consciousness. From this perspective, : emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction : resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed : by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons :of : common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally : disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought, : devaluing experience, etc. : :Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed : to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for : self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way :of : attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational : faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first :"free-thinking" : artifact is probably going to be a diesel. : Huh? : : "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size: :an : injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from : without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which : eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is :sufficiently : increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will : very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is :destroyed. : Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing). : : :Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed : amounts to the contention that the most rational species : (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the : formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via : intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can :reasonably : be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of : Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned : artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why :a : question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally : Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it : presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a : question which can only be addressed in comparative : (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm, :etc.). : There are some games, including the prisoner’s dilemma, which generally result in irrationality. There is also a bird which has a behavior of tearing down its neighbor’s nest. The bird has several choices. 1.) Spend all his time guarding what part of his nest is built, 2.) Look for new … read more »
– Rational Negativism: A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement, purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression, suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e., to synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the question: ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the survivalistically bizarre non-physical objective of maximizing self-worth?’ Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate monks, self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.). Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability (i.e., maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth). Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.) to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too, these more global concerns and values can themselves become reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well. Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating different levels or degrees of consciousness. From this perspective, emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons of common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought, devaluing experience, etc. Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way of attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first "free-thinking" artifact is probably going to be a diesel. "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size: an injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is sufficiently increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is destroyed. Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing). Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed amounts to the contention that the most rational species (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can reasonably be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why a question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a question which can only be addressed in comparative (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm, etc.). Along these same lines, the theory can also be construed as an endorsement or metajustification for comparative approaches in epistemology (explanationism, plausiblism, etc.) "The short answer [to Lucas/Godel and more recently, Penrose] is that, although it is established that there are limitations to the powers of any particular machine, it has only been stated, without any sort of proof, that no such limitations apply to human intellect " (A. M. Turing). "So even if mathematicians are superb cognizers of mathematical truth, and even if there is no algorithm, practical or otherwise, for cognizing mathematical truth, it does not follow that the power of mathematicians to cognize mathematical truth is not entirely explicable in terms of their brain’s executing an algorithm. Not an algorhithm for intuiting mathematical truth — we can suppose that Penrose [via Godel] has proved that there could be no such thing. What would the algorithm be for, then? Most plausibly it would be an algorithm — one of very many — for trying to stay alive … " (D. C. Dennett). Oops! Sorry! Wrong again, old bean. "My ruling passion is the love of literary fame" (David Hume). "I have often felt as though I had inherited all the defiance and all the passions with which our ancestors defended their Temple and could gladly sacrifice my life for one great moment in history" (Sigmund Freud). "He, too [Ludwig Wittgenstein], suffered from depressions and for long periods considered killing himself because he considered his life worthless, but the stubbornness inherited from his father may have helped him to survive" (Hans Sluga). "The inquest [Alan Turing's] established that it was suicide. The evidence was perfunctory, not for any irregular reason, but because it was so transparently clear a case" (Andrew Hodges) — Phil Roberts, Jr. Feelings of Worthlessness and So-Called Cognitive Science http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5476