Question:

I tried homeopathic meds on myself but would not try them on my son. Kids really are too little to be messing with.  I know that you are searching for answers but there really are none.  The best advice I can give is to educate yourself on the disease and the medications or therapies used, this way you can be informed to make the best decisions for your child. nicamrem —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

There are enough tombs,you can look. good willing is not good doing. Lothar

Response:

Neeraj, I face the same issue with my 3 year old daughter.  What really helps is avoiding any all all things that could trigger her asthma.  Also, use preventive medications if the doctor prescibes some.  Before 3 months my daughter went throught the allergy tests and now we know that my daughter is allergic to milk, dust mites, mold and mild dew.  We used to use the humidifier very often, now we don’t. People tell us that kids usually grow out of this, however, our doctor said that with each attack of asthma the chances of her growing out of it decreases.  That is the very reason we try our very best to avoid things that could trigger asthma. I know what you are going through.  Try your best and have faith in God. Chetan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi , I am wondering whether asthma is common among the childern in US. My 2 year old daughter has been dignosed with asthma and there is really no cure has been advised so far. Except temp relief by using breathing machine. I want to know if this is true that there is really no cure of the problem. Has anyone tried any Homeopathic Madicine ? Please advise.

Response:

Hi , I am wondering whether asthma is common among the childern in US. My 2 year old daughter has been dignosed with asthma and there is really no cure has been advised so far. Except temp relief by using breathing machine. I want to know if this is true that there is really no cure of the problem.

Yes, asthma is common; 10-20% of children seem to have it.  No, there isn’t an cure . . . just treatments. Has anyone tried any Homeopathic Madicine ?

Not anyone who actually wanted their child to survive to adulthood and understood the scientific fallacies behind homeopathy; IOW, this is a BAD idea. Chris Owens

Response:

I am wondering whether asthma is common among the childern in US. My 2 year old daughter has been dignosed with asthma and there is really no cure has been advised so far. Except temp relief by using breathing machine. I want to know if this is true that there is really no cure of the problem. Has anyone tried any Homeopathic Madicine ? Please advise.

Asthma is diagnosed using breathing tests. In toddlers, where breathing tests can’t be administered, the condition is often called RAD (reactive airways disease). As toddlers grow, they often outgrow the condition as their airways become larger. The treatment is inhaled albuterol for short term relief (and rescue), inhaled preventor meds like cromolyn or steroids for long term relief. Asthma is a chronic disease which needs ongoing drugs. There is no ‘cure’ but in some cases the syptoms resolve for a period of time. For Moderate to Severe cases in infants and toddlers, it’s advisable to see a pediatric allergist. Minimizing allergens and irritants in the environment is important. Homeopathy involves the use of very dilute drugs; not effective for asthma (unless contaminated with steroids). Link: http://www.aaaai.org/public/publicedmat/tips/tip20.html CHILDHOOD ASTHMA (AAAAI) Excerpt: "Approximately 10% of children have symptoms consistent with  asthma. Correct diagnosis and management of childhood asthma  requires an asthma and allergy specialist who recognizes the  uniqueness of childhood asthma, compared to asthma which  begins in adulthood." Ellis

Response:

Hi , I am wondering whether asthma is common among the childern in US. My 2 year old daughter has been dignosed with asthma and there is really no cure has been advised so far. Except temp relief by using breathing machine. I want to know if this is true that there is really no cure of the problem.

The most important thing you can remember is that There Is No Cure For Asthma.  Anybody who claims otherwise is trying to defraud you. Has anyone tried any Homeopathic Madicine ?

Try distilled water – it is the same stuff.  And will probably do more good as you will drink more of it. Another thing to consider is that statistically, asthmatics who use ‘alternative’ medicine have twice the hospitalization and death rates as those who do not. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Hi , I am wondering whether asthma is common among the childern in US. My 2 year old daughter has been dignosed with asthma and there is really no cure has been advised so far. Except temp relief by using breathing machine. I want to know if this is true that there is really no cure of the problem. Has anyone tried any Homeopathic Madicine ? Please advise.

Response:

My son is 6, has had asthma for 6 years.  I have gone to many doctors and there is no cure but there are methods to keep it under control.  He’s on inhaled steroids, Pulmicort and on Singulair, everyday.  When he breaks through he goes on ventolin and atrovent, and sometimes prednisone.  Right now the treatment is prevention but I keep the hope there might be a cure. Good Luck Gina

Response:

Question:

In most cases in Canada, people would have great difficulty in obtaining their pilots license if they have multiple sclerosis.  This would be especially true if they have any symptoms or problems with balance or difficulty multitasking and making quick life-and-death decisions because of cognitive effects.  PwMS would almost certainly have to appeal to the minister regarding their medical fitness and I doubt whether there would be many exceptions.  It is not a matter of money for training or being able to pass a flight test on a good day. The United States is much more liberal in their licensing of aircraft and pilots as evidenced by the many U.S. pilots who would stop at the border between Alaska and the Yukon to fly from Alaska south following the Alaska Highway using road maps instead of proper aeronautical charts.  This statement is not third hand but rather based on my personal inspection of many of these aircraft and pilots. Many of these pilots were helicopter pilots in Vietnam. Buying an aircraft from Alaska would guarantee years of headaches and expanse with Transport Canada as many of the aircraft in Alaska are maintained or rebuilt by their owners who are not certified aircraft mechanics keeping very detailed log books of dating from the time of manufacture (often 30 or 40 years) as required in Canada.  I checked into it in a lot of detail as I was considering buying a small plane from a friend of mine who as a state trooper in Alaska and had a small airplane with tundra tires and a stall kit for landing in taking off on gravel bars along remote rivers. If you have never been to mainland Alaska, your first observation would probably be all the small aircraft in small fields in the middle of nowhere.  I think the airfield is called Taylor Field near Anchorage and I believe that it had around 5000 private aircraft sitting there when I first saw it around 1980. The following are some of the regulations regarding pilots licenses and medical examinations in Canada. Prohibition Regarding Exercise of Privileges 404.06 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no holder of a permit, licence or rating shall exercise the privileges of the permit, licence or rating if (a) one of the following circumstances exists and could impair the holder’s ability to exercise those privileges safely: (i) the holder suffers from an illness, injury or disability, (ii) the holder is taking a drug, or (iii) the holder is receiving medical treatment; (b) the holder has been involved in an aircraft accident that is wholly or partially the result of any of the circumstances referred to in paragraph (a); (c) the holder has entered the thirtieth week of pregnancy, unless the medical certificate is issued in connection with an air traffic controller licence, in which case the holder may exercise the privileges of the permit, licence or rating until the onset of labour; or (d) the holder has given birth in the preceding six weeks. Division IV – MedicalMinister’s Assessment 404.11 (1) The Minister shall assess any medical reports submitted pursuant to paragraph 404.17(b) to determine whether an applicant for the issuance or renewal of a medical certificate meets the medical fitness requirements set out in the personnel licensing standards that are necessary for the issuance or renewal of the medical certificate Reconsideration of Assessment 404.12 (1) An applicant for the renewal of a medical certificate who is assessed by the Minister as not meeting the requirements referred to in subsection 404.11(1) may, within 30 days after the date that the applicant receives the notification referred to in subsection 404.11(2), (a) request the Minister to reconsider the assessment; and (b) submit additional information to the Minister regarding the medical fitness of the applicant in support of the request. — Larry rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written with voice recognition software

Response:

I drive a car with hand controls and a while back, looked into flying lessons for the handicapped. I never read anything about MSers not being able to get pilots licenses, but the cost of lessons is PROHIBITIVE! Since I just spent $31,000 on a new car, an airplane isn’t in my budget now, but flying is really intriguing to me.

Response:

On 15 Jul 2003 22:18:33 GMT, oldfortunetel…@aol.com (OldFortuneTeller) wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis:

I drive a car with hand controls and a while back, looked into flying lessons for the handicapped. I never read anything about MSers not being able to get pilots licenses, but the cost of lessons is PROHIBITIVE! Since I just spent $31,000 on a new car, an airplane isn’t in my budget now, but flying is really intriguing to me.

I can speak only for Canada. I was a pilot when I had my first overt symptom of MS, a case of double vision. I did not receive the official diagnosis for another 11 years but I was grounded immediately.  The reason given at the time was that it was unknown what caused the double vision; therefore, it could occur again with sudden onset–I should come back when the cause was known. I received the official diagnosis of MS in 1994 and was told that MS results in immediate and permanent invalidation of my medical certificate, which means I cannot fly as PIC (Pilot In Command) nor can I serve as flight crew. I was pissed off with the grounding in 1983, but given the way the MS progressed I now believe it is a justified precaution on the part of the authorities.  I would likely be dead if I had continued to fly and I would have taken any passengers to their deaths with me.  With the benefit of hindsight and speaking as a pilot, I now believe that a person with MS should not act as PIC. You might find a little entertainment if you use Google and read the following: Message-ID: <82idqs8m48re7hn2ee1lb7rtc263v4c0k1@4ax.com

— Gardening Zones Canada Zone 5a United States Zone 3a Near Ottawa, Ontario

Response:

On 15 Jul 2003 22:18:33 GMT, oldfortunetel…@aol.com (OldFortuneTeller) wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis:

I never read anything about MSers not being able to get pilots licenses

One of the first things you do is get a check out by an aviation doctor.  If you answer the questions truthfully then it is unlikely you will receive a passing medical. — Gardening Zones Canada Zone 5a United States Zone 3a Near Ottawa, Ontario

Response:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:00 GMT, "white.lynx" <white.l…@telus.net

wrote in

alt.support.mult-sclerosis:

In most cases in Canada, people would have great difficulty in obtaining their pilots license if they have multiple sclerosis.  This would be especially true if they have any symptoms or problems with balance or difficulty multitasking and making quick life-and-death decisions because of cognitive effects.

And a score of transient things that might happen only occasionally.   — Gardening Zones Canada Zone 5a United States Zone 3a Near Ottawa, Ontario

Response:

I had a Class III medical certificate from the FAA before I got sick. Afterwards, I didn’t even try because I knew I would be turned down. Lessons are relatively inexpensive (compared to getting a plane and maintaining it and storing it, etc.). If you make it clear to the instructor that you will never solo or get your license they can take you up just for fun (and it is). I used to say "I don’t want to learn how to fly, I just want to look around and I want to drive." CFIs are fine to take you up for fun, but CFIIs are more qualified. With a Dx of MS, I would not even try for a FAA medical. The thread is about Canada and I am talking about the US. I do not know your level of disability. I doubt I could even physically get into a small plane today. That is not to mention that I would have to land every hour to pee. If you need hand controls to drive a car, I doubt you could fly a plane at all. You need your feet to work the rudder and there are no adaptive devices. There are some planes that the yoke works the rudder automatically. If you are serious, look into those. I forget which planes do that, but a flying school should know. Fred. oldfortunetel…@aol.com (OldFortuneTeller) wrote in news:20030715181833.29384.00000280@mb-m15.aol.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I drive a car with hand controls and a while back, looked into flying lessons for the handicapped. I never read anything about MSers not being able to get pilots licenses, but the cost of lessons is PROHIBITIVE! Since I just spent $31,000 on a new car, an airplane isn’t in my budget now, but flying is really intriguing to me.

Response:

Our David is or was an airplane mechanic, and when his neuro dx’d MS, he told Dave that it was one of the diseases that he had to report.  David has not been able to work since — and if a mechanic is prohibited you can be sure that the rules for a pilot would be even more stringent. Gaylan "Jim Carter" <spam.f…@softhome.net

wrote in message

news:ir69hvg6ts01ufaht0inu7l4oo1ah629ir@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 15 Jul 2003 22:18:33 GMT, oldfortunetel…@aol.com (OldFortuneTeller)

wrote

in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: I drive a car with hand controls and a while back, looked into flying

lessons

for the handicapped. I never read anything about MSers not being able to

get

pilots licenses, but the cost of lessons is PROHIBITIVE! Since I just spent $31,000 on a new car, an airplane isn’t in my budget

now,

but flying is really intriguing to me. I can speak only for Canada. I was a pilot when I had my first overt symptom of MS, a case of double

vision.

I did not receive the official diagnosis for another 11 years but I was

grounded

immediately.  The reason given at the time was that it was unknown what

caused

the double vision; therefore, it could occur again with sudden onset–I

should

come back when the cause was known. I received the official diagnosis of MS in 1994 and was told that MS

results in

immediate and permanent invalidation of my medical certificate, which

means I

cannot fly as PIC (Pilot In Command) nor can I serve as flight crew. I was pissed off with the grounding in 1983, but given the way the MS

progressed

I now believe it is a justified precaution on the part of the authorities.

I

would likely be dead if I had continued to fly and I would have taken any passengers to their deaths with me.  With the benefit of hindsight and

speaking

as a pilot, I now believe that a person with MS should not act as PIC. You might find a little entertainment if you use Google and read the

following:

Message-ID: <82idqs8m48re7hn2ee1lb7rtc263v4c…@4ax.com — Gardening Zones Canada Zone 5a United States Zone 3a Near Ottawa, Ontario

Response:

I’m a pilot with MS in the U.S.  Haven’t even tried to get the medical certificate since my DX several years ago.  Balance problems would make me ineligible even if the MS alone wouldn’t.  I sure miss flying.  By the way, I still have the license, but it is useless without the medical certificate. "white.lynx" <white.l…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:YvWQa.12108$Ma.2012737@news1.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In most cases in Canada, people would have great difficulty in obtaining their pilots license if they have multiple sclerosis.  This would be especially true if they have any symptoms or problems with balance or difficulty multitasking and making quick life-and-death decisions because

of

cognitive effects.  PwMS would almost certainly have to appeal to the minister regarding their medical fitness and I doubt whether there would

be

many exceptions.  It is not a matter of money for training or being able

to

pass a flight test on a good day. The United States is much more liberal in their licensing of aircraft and pilots as evidenced by the many U.S. pilots who would stop at the border between Alaska and the Yukon to fly from Alaska south following the Alaska Highway using road maps instead of proper aeronautical charts.  This statement is not third hand but rather based on my personal inspection of many of these aircraft and pilots. Many of these pilots were helicopter pilots in Vietnam. Buying an aircraft from Alaska would guarantee years of headaches and expanse with Transport Canada as many of the aircraft in Alaska are maintained or rebuilt by their owners who are not certified aircraft mechanics keeping very detailed log books of dating from the time of manufacture (often 30 or 40 years) as required in Canada.  I checked into

it

in a lot of detail as I was considering buying a small plane from a friend of mine who as a state trooper in Alaska and had a small airplane with tundra tires and a stall kit for landing in taking off on gravel bars

along

remote rivers. If you have never been to mainland Alaska, your first observation would probably be all the small aircraft in small fields in

the

middle of nowhere.  I think the airfield is called Taylor Field near Anchorage and I believe that it had around 5000 private aircraft sitting there when I first saw it around 1980. The following are some of the regulations regarding pilots licenses and medical examinations in Canada. Prohibition Regarding Exercise of Privileges 404.06 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no holder of a permit, licence or rating shall exercise the privileges of the permit, licence or rating if (a) one of the following circumstances exists and could impair the

holder’s

ability to exercise those privileges safely: (i) the holder suffers from an illness, injury or disability, (ii) the holder is taking a drug, or (iii) the holder is receiving medical treatment; (b) the holder has been involved in an aircraft accident that is wholly or partially the result of any of the circumstances referred to in paragraph (a); (c) the holder has entered the thirtieth week of pregnancy, unless the medical certificate is issued in connection with an air traffic controller licence, in which case the holder may exercise the privileges of the

permit,

licence or rating until the onset of labour; or (d) the holder has given birth in the preceding six weeks. Division IV – MedicalMinister’s Assessment 404.11 (1) The Minister shall assess any medical reports submitted

pursuant

to paragraph 404.17(b) to determine whether an applicant for the issuance

or

renewal of a medical certificate meets the medical fitness requirements

set

out in the personnel licensing standards that are necessary for the

issuance

or renewal of the medical certificate Reconsideration of Assessment 404.12 (1) An applicant for the renewal of a medical certificate who is assessed by the Minister as not meeting the requirements referred to in subsection 404.11(1) may, within 30 days after the date that the applicant receives the notification referred to in subsection 404.11(2), (a) request the Minister to reconsider the assessment; and (b) submit additional information to the Minister regarding the medical fitness of the applicant in support of the request. — Larry rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written with voice recognition software

Response:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:53 -0400, "Thomas Young" <tomyo…@accesstoledo.com

wrote: By the way, I still have the license, but it is useless without the medical certificate.

Same as Canada.  I still have a licence, but it is invalid without the medical.

Response:

"white.lynx" <white.l…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:YvWQa.12108$Ma.2012737@news1.telusplanet.net…

In most cases in Canada, people would have great difficulty in obtaining their pilots license if they have multiple sclerosis.

I have retained my motorcycle racing license since my dx. I did check off the appropriate box in the forms last time I renewed it, and my application had no problems. But flying , I don’t know about that. It’s way to risky.:) — Jim Stinnett http://moto-rama.com

Response:

In addition to the possible dangers to the pilot and his passengers, there is dangers to other airplanes and potential crash sites on the ground.  When an aircraft goes missing in Canada, especially in coastal British Columbia, it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to search for it and jeopardizes the lives of the searchers.  There is a loophole in the regulations to allow the minister of transport some flexibility, but I can only see it justifiable in the case of a symptom-free individual. I quit driving motor vehicles even though I could probably do it most of the time using hand controls.  I know that in a complicated emergency pressure situation I could not respond quickly enough and  I did not want to take the chance of killing half of someone else’s family because of my pride and the often used "I need my car" excuse.  I suspect that there are many people with multiple sclerosis who should voluntarily quit driving but have not. In British Columbia, Canada you can be tested on a simulator and be taught how to use hand controls.  The thing that keeps many people from doing this is that you require a doctor’s referral (he is required by law to report you to motor vehicle branch if he doubts your ability to drive safely), it costs $300 you have to pay yourself and if you fail, it must be reported to motor vehicle branch in order to get you off the road.  Most people know when they have crossed the line and become a hazard. They should voluntarily quit driving, although some are in denial. — Larry rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written with voice recognition software "jim stinnett" <motor…@sbcglobal.net

wrote in message

news:ULfRa.1242$r42.365@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "white.lynx" <white.l…@telus.net

wrote in message

> news:YvWQa.12108$Ma.2012737@news1.telusplanet.net… > > In most cases in Canada, people would have great difficulty in obtaining > > their pilots license if they have multiple sclerosis. > I have retained my motorcycle racing license since my dx. I did check off > the appropriate box in the forms last time I renewed it, and my application

had no problems. But flying , I don’t know about that. It’s way to risky.:) — Jim Stinnett http://moto-rama.com

Response:

"white.lynx" <white.l…@telus.net

wrote in message

news:U6gRa.16143$xn5.2111621@news0.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In addition to the possible dangers to the pilot and his passengers, there is dangers to other airplanes and potential crash sites on the ground.

When

an aircraft goes missing in Canada, especially in coastal British

Columbia,

it can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to search for it and jeopardizes the lives of the searchers.  There is a loophole in the regulations to allow the minister of transport some flexibility, but I can only see it justifiable in the case of a symptom-free individual. I quit driving motor vehicles even though I could probably do it most of

the

time using hand controls.  I know that in a complicated emergency pressure situation I could not respond quickly enough and  I did not want to take

the

chance of killing half of someone else’s family because of my pride and

the

often used "I need my car" excuse.

 i saw on tv today an older man drove thru a crowd of people, in cali,, it was reported he may have had a stroke or maybe a heart attack,, the question is ,when should you relinquish your driving priveledges?,,  how do we determine that time? if this gent had a history of heart condition, maybe his doctor should have the ability to yank their liscences when they show ceretain symptoms or threats of stroke or heart attacks?? if thats what it was.  so when should we decide to stop driving , when it puts others at risk,, how do we determine how bad our condition must be to stop driving???, specially with our cognitive symptoms we experience!!!, i have noticed it is gettin hard to say things at times,, getting the words out,, bobD

Response:

Here in the US (WA state) – I had a friend getting her pilot’s license.  She was on Zoloft for depression but otherwise completely healthy.  The FAA said she had to go off the Zoloft and get a psych note saying she was "stable" and could function w/out the meds. This totally sucked for her but she did it and as soon as she got her license – back on zoloft. ps this was all pre-9/11 jkl

Response:

mswo…@aol.comnothanks (MsWompa) wrote in message <news:20030717065515.14746.00000067@mb-m02.aol.com

… Here in the US (WA state) – I had a friend getting her pilot’s license.  She was on Zoloft for depression but otherwise completely healthy.  The FAA said she had to go off the Zoloft and get a psych note saying she was "stable" and could function w/out the meds. This totally sucked for her but she did it and as soon as she got her license – back on zoloft. ps this was all pre-9/11 jkl

Your friend is asking for big, big trouble.  Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp (this is The National Transportation Board site) and ignore all spaces except the one labelled "Enter your word string below:"  Put the single word "zoloft" into that space and observe that there are eight hits on the word, each hit representing an accident, most fatal.  Here is just one of them.  This is the synopsis, full narrative is available at the NTSB site. Please point your friend to this site and have her discontinue either the zoloft or flying.  Please. "NTSB Identification: CHI01LA149. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number DMS. 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, May 27, 2001 in Kankakee, IL Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/16/03 Aircraft: Geertz Zenith CH 200, registration: N77VZ Injuries: 1 Fatal. The airplane was destroyed on impact with terrain. The pilot was fatally injured. A witness stated, "I watched it start a bank turn to the left and then nosed straight down. There were no other movements of the aircraft after it nosed down. It did not spin while going down. … I could not tell if the engine was running … nor did I notice the propeller. It appeared to me that there was no control of the aircraft after the left bank." The private pilot had 88.9 hours of total flight time and held a third class medical certificate. The pilot listed he used Zoloft and noted no "Mental disorders of any sort … " on the application for that medical certificate. Extracts from the pilot’s personal medical records showed, "…self-discontinued Zoloft 2 weeks ago because of conflict with FAA licensing – patient feels fine off of it. … An entry approximately 6 weeks before the accident indicates "…occasional problem staying asleep – has taken Ambien in past … no problem with concentration … meds – Zoloft 50 mg per day, approximately 3 days per week …" Civil Aeromedical Institute (CAMI) reviewed that application and cautioned the pilot, "Because of your history of anxiety and sleep disturbance, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms or adverse changes occur or any time medication and/or treatment is required." CAMI’s Final Forensic Toxicology Accident Report stated, "SERTRALINE detected in Liver 0.283 (ug/ml, ug/g),DESMETHYLSERTRALINE detected in Liver, and DESMETHYLSERTRALINE detected in Blood." Desmethylsertraline is the predominant metabolite of the antidepressant sertraline, Zoloft. Sertraline, Zoloft is [a] SSRI antidepressant. … ***Warnings – may impair mental and/or physical ability required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks (e.g.,driving, operating heavy machinery).*** No pre-impact anomalies were found with the airplane. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The loss of control on initial climbout for undetermined reasons.                                         Full narrative available"

Response:

Not much worse than an alchoholic who sobers up just to get their drivers liscence renewed "Jim Carter" <jimcar…@gmx.net

wrote in message

news:33cf2f1c.0307171315.6e2a83b5@posting.google.com…

mswo…@aol.comnothanks (MsWompa) wrote in message

<news:20030717065515.14746.00000067@mb-m02.aol.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Here in the US (WA state) – I had a friend getting her pilot’s license.

She

was on Zoloft for depression but otherwise completely healthy.  The FAA

said

she had to go off the Zoloft and get a psych note saying she was

"stable" and

could function w/out the meds. This totally sucked for her but she did it and as soon as she got her

license -

back on zoloft. ps this was all pre-9/11 jkl Your friend is asking for big, big trouble.  Go to http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp (this is The National Transportation Board site) and ignore all spaces except the one labelled "Enter your word string below:"  Put the single word "zoloft" into that space and observe that there are eight hits on the word, each hit representing an accident, most fatal.  Here is just one of them.  This is the synopsis, full narrative is available at the NTSB site. Please point your friend to this site and have her discontinue either the zoloft or flying.  Please. "NTSB Identification: CHI01LA149. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number DMS. 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, May 27, 2001 in Kankakee, IL Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/16/03 Aircraft: Geertz Zenith CH 200, registration: N77VZ Injuries: 1 Fatal. The airplane was destroyed on impact with terrain. The pilot was fatally injured. A witness stated, "I watched it start a bank turn to the left and then nosed straight down. There were no other movements of the aircraft after it nosed down. It did not spin while going down. … I could not tell if the engine was running … nor did I notice the propeller. It appeared to me that there was no control of the aircraft after the left bank." The private pilot had 88.9 hours of total flight time and held a third class medical certificate. The pilot listed he used Zoloft and noted no "Mental disorders of any sort … " on the application for that medical certificate. Extracts from the pilot’s personal medical records showed, "…self-discontinued Zoloft 2 weeks ago because of conflict with FAA licensing – patient feels fine off of it. … An entry approximately 6 weeks before the accident indicates "…occasional problem staying asleep – has taken Ambien in past … no problem with concentration … meds – Zoloft 50 mg per day, approximately 3 days per week …" Civil Aeromedical Institute (CAMI) reviewed that application and cautioned the pilot, "Because of your history of anxiety and sleep disturbance, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms or adverse changes occur or any time medication and/or treatment is required." CAMI’s Final Forensic Toxicology Accident Report stated, "SERTRALINE detected in Liver 0.283 (ug/ml, ug/g),DESMETHYLSERTRALINE detected in Liver, and DESMETHYLSERTRALINE detected in Blood." Desmethylsertraline is the predominant metabolite of the antidepressant sertraline, Zoloft. Sertraline, Zoloft is [a] SSRI antidepressant. … ***Warnings – may impair mental and/or physical ability required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks (e.g.,driving, operating heavy machinery).*** No pre-impact anomalies were found with the airplane. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: The loss of control on initial climbout for undetermined reasons.                                         Full narrative available"

Response:

To me, I would rather see my friend on zoloft and flying her sessna (sp?) than depressed b/c she can’t take zoloft just to be a recreational flyer. How the heck can you link zoloft with an airplane accident.  If that was the case you would see a 2Million who take SSRI’s in an a lot more accidents driving their cars. jkl

Response:

it diminished my driving abilities,,last accident (there were 3 or 4) i totaled 2 cars..i stopped driving then. "MsWompa" <mswo…@aol.comnothanks

wrote in message

news:20030717221901.14537.00000158@mb-m04.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

To me, I would rather see my friend on zoloft and flying her sessna (sp?)

than

depressed b/c she can’t take zoloft just to be a recreational flyer. How the heck can you link zoloft with an airplane accident.  If that was

the

case you would see a 2Million who take SSRI’s in an a lot more accidents driving their cars. jkl

Response:

On 18 Jul 2003 02:19:01 GMT, mswo…@aol.comnothanks (MsWompa) wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis:

To me, I would rather see my friend on zoloft and flying her sessna (sp?) than depressed b/c she can’t take zoloft just to be a recreational flyer. How the heck can you link zoloft with an airplane accident.  If that was the case you would see a 2Million who take SSRI’s in an a lot more accidents driving their cars.

I just hope that when she crashes her Cesna that she does it in an open area so she doesn’t take anyone else with her. — Joan

Response:

On 18 Jul 2003 02:19:01 GMT, mswo…@aol.comnothanks (MsWompa) wrote: }To me, I would rather see my friend on zoloft and flying her sessna (sp?) than }depressed b/c she can’t take zoloft just to be a recreational flyer. } }How the heck can you link zoloft with an airplane accident.  If that was the }case you would see a 2Million who take SSRI’s in an a lot more accidents }driving their cars.

If an aircraft is functioning properly then the cause of the accident must be the pilot.  If the pilot is taking a drug that interferes with his performance then one can quite easily link the drug with the accident. As a Naval Aviator, this tells me just how irresponsible pilots can be.  And who says that a lot of the accidents on our highways are not caused by people on OTC or prescription drugs who are disregarding the warning labels on the packages? The FAA does not ground a pilot without cause or on a whim. According to the 53rd edition of the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), ZOLOFT is used for treatment of depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and panic disorder. Following are the definitions as defined in the PDR. None are the characteristics of a person who must be able to make split second decisions. "Depression…A major depressive episode implies a prominent and relatively persistent depressed or dysphoric mood that usually interferes with daily functioning (nearly every day for at least 2 weeks)…." "Obsessive-compulsive disorder is characterized by recurrent and persistent ideas, thoughts, impulses, or images (obsessions) that are ego-dystomic and/or repetitive, purposeful, and intentional behaviors (compulsion) that are recognized by the person as excessive or unreasonable…." "Panic disorder…a discrete period of intense fear or discomfort in which four (or more) of the following symptoms develop abruptly and reach a peak within 10 minutes; (1) palpitations, pounding heart, or accelerated heart rate; (2) sweating; (3) trembling or shaking; (4) sensations of shortness of breath or smothering; (5) feeling of choking; (6) chest pain or discomfort; (7) nausea or abdominal distress; (8) feeling dizzy, unsteady, lightheaded, or faint; (9) derealization (feelings of unreality) or depersonalization (being unattached from oneself); (10) fear of losing control; (11) fear of dying; (12) paresthesias (numbness or tingling sensations); (13) chills or hot flushes…."

Response:

what about american pilots flying high!!, doing amphetamines to be alert!!! this is a drug and it affects the ability to function while flying,, especially in combat, evidence of this is our 4 canadian soldiers blown away by an american pilot high on dope!!! in his doped up state he was unable to make proper descision or identify or obey the central commands orders. now we find out ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!! this is common american practice of drugging their pilots in the airforce.  now i know why so many choppers go down, from? drugged up americans fighting the war on drugs and terrorism while stoned on uppers!!!!  bobD "Tom Harkness" <spam.f…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:b64af89202bae67d157fafaf63c9f2bb@free.teranews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 18 Jul 2003 02:19:01 GMT, mswo…@aol.comnothanks (MsWompa) wrote: }To me, I would rather see my friend on zoloft and flying her sessna (sp?)

than

}depressed b/c she can’t take zoloft just to be a recreational flyer. } }How the heck can you link zoloft with an airplane accident.  If that was

the

}case you would see a 2Million who take SSRI’s in an a lot more accidents }driving their cars. If an aircraft is functioning properly then the cause of the accident must be the pilot.  If the pilot is taking a drug that interferes with his performance then one can quite easily link the drug with the accident. As a Naval Aviator, this tells me just how irresponsible pilots can be.

And

who says that a lot of the accidents on our highways are not caused by people on OTC or prescription drugs who are disregarding the warning

labels

on the packages? The FAA does not ground a pilot without cause or on a whim. According to the 53rd edition of the Physicians’ Desk Reference (PDR), ZOLOFT is used for treatment of depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and panic disorder. Following are the definitions as defined in the PDR. None are the characteristics of a person who must be able to make split second decisions. "Depression…A major depressive episode implies a prominent and

relatively

persistent depressed or dysphoric mood that usually interferes with daily functioning (nearly every day for at least 2 weeks)…." "Obsessive-compulsive disorder is characterized by recurrent and

persistent

ideas, thoughts, impulses, or images (obsessions) that are ego-dystomic and/or repetitive, purposeful, and intentional behaviors (compulsion) that are recognized by the person as excessive or unreasonable…." "Panic disorder…a discrete period of intense fear or discomfort in which four (or more) of the following symptoms develop abruptly and reach a peak within 10 minutes; (1) palpitations, pounding heart, or accelerated heart rate; (2) sweating; (3) trembling or shaking; (4) sensations of shortness

of

breath or smothering; (5) feeling of choking; (6) chest pain or

discomfort;

(7) nausea or abdominal distress; (8) feeling dizzy, unsteady,

lightheaded,

or faint; (9) derealization (feelings of unreality) or depersonalization (being unattached from oneself); (10) fear of losing control; (11) fear of dying; (12) paresthesias (numbness or tingling sensations); (13) chills or hot flushes…."

Response:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:03:50 GMT, "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca

wrote:

}now we find out ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!! this is }common american practice of drugging their pilots in the airforce.

Take it up with the Air Force.  I am Navy and feel the practice is irresponsible.

Response:

In <news:2382260b508bca06f082da1e53af960e@free.teranews.com

,

Tom Harkness said:

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:03:50 GMT, "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca wrote: }now we find out ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!! this is }common american practice of drugging their pilots in the airforce. Take it up with the Air Force.  I am Navy and feel the practice is irresponsible.

"Irresponsible"? How about "criminally insane"? ((U))   M

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:18:36 -0700, "Michael" <muirh…@island.net

wrote:

}In <news:2382260b508bca06f082da1e53af960e@free.teranews.com

,

}Tom Harkness said: } }

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:03:50 GMT, "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca

}

wrote:

}

}

}now we find out ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!!

}

this is }common american practice of drugging their pilots in the

}

airforce.

}

}

Take it up with the Air Force.  I am Navy and feel the practice is

}

irresponsible.

} }"Irresponsible"? } }How about "criminally insane"? } }((U)) }  M }

Take it up with the Air Force legal department.  Why am I suddenly the whipping boy for things over which you ought to know I have no control, did not countenance, cannot change, was not present for and am not responsible for?     I think one of you is taking bad drugs.  Or else is not taking his good drugs.  He says, "ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!!" then goes on to correctly state it is the Air Force.  Notice how quickly we go from ALL fighter pilots to just Air Force fighter pilots. Now you chime in with your two cents of legalese. ("Insane" is a legal, not medical, term.)  What do you expect me say? Why not use your energy to prevent another tragedy from occurring rather than to rehash old tragedies that cannot be undone?  If you cannot contribute to this purpose in a meaningful way then at least start a new message chain for your grievances where you can be ignored and are not detracting from the efforts of the pilots and others here who are trying to prevent another tragedy.  Is this too much to ask of you? I will return to base in another few minutes.  Pat yourselves on your backs for your efforts this day.  You have not helped one bit, but you have added considerable obfuscation in the message chain for those who are trying to help.

Response:

In <news:47d6d50e675fa9c0b6f2401a183c0054@free.teranews.com

,

Tom Harkness said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:18:36 -0700, "Michael" <muirh…@island.net> > wrote: > }In <news:2382260b508bca06f082da1e53af960e@free.teranews.com

,

> }Tom Harkness said: > } > }> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:03:50 GMT, "Bob Davidson" <phatb…@shaw.ca> > }> wrote: > }> > }> }now we find out ALL american fighter pilots fly high on dope!!!! > }> this is }common american practice of drugging their pilots in the > }> airforce. > }> > }> Take it up with the Air Force.  I am Navy and feel the practice is > }> irresponsible. > } > }"Irresponsible"? > } > }How about "criminally insane"? > } > }((U)) > }  M > } > Take it up with the Air Force legal department.  Why am I suddenly the > whipping boy for things over which you ought to know I have no > control, did not countenance, cannot change, was not present for and > am not responsible for?

Easy, Tom… I was commenting on a common Air Force practice, not on you! ((U))   M

Response:

"Tom Harkness" <spam.f…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:47d6d50e675fa9c0b6f2401a183c0054@free.teranews.com…

help.

tom ,the point i am trying to make is that if they? are going to ban people with ms from flying cause we take medications, then ban all american pilots in ANY sevice that is FORCED to take uppers to fly 134 million dollar jets that bomb people.i dont say canadian pilots cause we dont have a common proctice of forcing our pilots to take uppers or not get the flight time!!!  but hey thanks for pointing out my inconsistencies, and i did pat myself on the back because eveytime i try and discuss what the usa is doing to the world someone corrects my grammar!! but i did get out the fact that there are pilots on drugs flying at mach 2 with big bombs in their holding bay, so whay up with them puttin pressure on msers who fly? t i did make some spelling mistakes buts thats how itype, also i did not get anything right, after i said all pilots, i just said airforce,, thats who flies planes,, i was not differentiating between any of your forces pilots as i did not know it was only the airforce pilots, high on crack how do you know the navy dudes aint taking Da shizznit  too?  bringing up the past is what is called -judicial precedent,, or when making an arguement, you back it up with facts,, like your pilots were on hardcore drugs when they murdered our soldiers who were in a KNOWN training area,, they fucked up!!! i also know john walters is a liar cause i have it on record. it is a fact he lied,, and that the bush oilicies are based on lies,, since you think i should pat myself on the back for something i was not intending in what i said,, i just now said it, and will pat myself now. bobD

Response:

Question:

What say you all???

I say all things in moderation. I don’t see how it could be any worse than breathing while driving a car, or drinking treated water, drinking regular coke or coffee, or getting a measles shot. .. Bridget M. Atkins maintenance for life.

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural.

And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I  think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake.

Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar. –Bryan

Response:

I say, neither, but rather, like most things, some good and some evil.   Priscilla — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I  think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar.

Geez, what’s your problem?  I think what he said makes a lot of sense. Priscilla — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar. Geez, what’s your problem?  I think what he said makes a lot of sense.

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar or maple syrup in my oatmeal doesn’t send me over the moon with cravings.  i’m one of those annoying people who prefers "real" food over "artificial," so for my purposes small amounts of sugar work just fine.  

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar or maple syrup in my oatmeal doesn’t send me over the moon with cravings.  i’m one of those annoying people who prefers "real" food over "artificial," so for my purposes small amounts of sugar work just fine.  

My summertime morning iced tea tastes putrid to me with only artificial sweetener in it, so I use some sugar and some fake sweetener and am getting used to having it be not nearly as sweet as I used to drink it.   In cool weather my mug of hot tea in the morning has one level teaspoon of real sugar in it.  It doesn’t taste right otherwise.  One teaspoon doesn’t seem to spike me much, and sugar is a much safer carb to eat than, say, potatoes. Priscilla, T2, good control with LC — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

I agree completely, but have never been able to word it as well, Archon.  I use a little sugar in my hot beverages and control the amount very carefully.  I do not seek to replace all manner of sweets and carbs through articifical means and don’t feel prohibited or cheated because the basic lo carb diet is stabilizing enough to have banished my former cravings. Your reply is particularly timely because I was about to go shopping for Stevia today even though I’m having no hitch in my weight loss with the small of amounts (as compared to before) of sugar I’m consuming.  What do you think of Stevia, btw? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake.

Response:

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant. Noone told the millions of people using it that it would be addictive and hell to get off of.  There are people all over the internet signing petitions to start a class action lawsuit against the drug company.  Anyway, I digress, but my point is that just because the government says Splenda is safe, imo, does not necessarily make it so. I’ve been reading a few things on it lately and it’s made me a little cautious of using it now. jmo

Nasty. See why I dislike medication? I wasn’t saying – have no expertice to do so – that Splenda is or may be harmful. Just that I don’t like the idea. Btw it does remind me about the margerine episode – replace butter with margerine. It’s fat altered so the body doesn’t recognize it as fat – like with Splenda it’s sugar altered so the body doesn’t recognize it as sugar. I prefer something the body knows what is and then just use less of it. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

BTW, How many carbs in a teaspoon of sugar vs sugar substitutes? DC 187/174/155 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I say, neither, but rather, like most things, some good and some evil.   Priscilla

Response:

BTW, How many carbs in a teaspoon of sugar vs sugar substitutes?

A standard teaspoon (5 ml) sugar is 4 gram. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar.

Do you earn your living selling Splenda? If not, why so emotionally involved? — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

I agree completely, but have never been able to word it as well, Archon.  I use a little sugar in my hot beverages and control the amount very carefully.

A small teapsoon (5 gram) in my tea is too sweet for me (6 months ago I’d NEVER believe I would EVER say "it’s too sweet for me"!). I just use a squirt of heavy cream that gives a very pleasant mouth feel and satisfying effect and also sweetens it, smoothes the tannin, and produces a taste that kinda turns me on!   I do not seek to replace all manner of sweets and carbs through articifical means and don’t feel prohibited or cheated because the basic lo carb diet is stabilizing enough to have banished my former cravings.

One must beware of not becoming fanatic (see note) about it and treat oneself sometimes. And I find it more romantic and "healthy for the soul" to use natural things. I like some of the mottos for these diets: Don’t eat processed/refined foods, eat whole foods. I thinks it’s a shame that everything have to be so synthetic these days (I really hate those polyester shirts!) There’s medicine for the silliest things – I don’t have any drugs in the house – not even headache pills. When I was given a prescription for something silly I didn’t take it (if I was a doctor I’d say "get off all non critical medication, eat lowcarb, and buy some good inline skates and get out there and exercise". dealing with everythign with medicine weakens the body’s natural defence). And in my area I’m the one who’s least ill and sick – I saw a post theorizing that saturated fat may improve the immune system and I have always eaten huge amounts of whipped cream! My research is about improving performance in agriculture without using chemical means. Optimising fertilizer leaving no residual fertilizer in the soil, and minimizing need for toxins and finally leading to mechanical weeding. Note: Since I started this diet I’ve often been accused of being fanatic, though! I tell that I don’t deny myself of things, but the food I eat now is actually better. Last time I was called fanatic I could tell that I had just the day before felt like having good old-fashioned Danish pancakes (sweet crepes with raw cane sugar and strawberry jam). So I just made them – ate all I could eat (which was less than I used to be able to) and so I got my pancake fix (didn’t have any jam in the house so I used strawberries and whipped cream instead – so actually more lowcarb than I’d normally eat them!) Your reply is particularly timely because I was about to go shopping for Stevia today even though I’m having no hitch in my weight loss with the small of amounts (as compared to before) of sugar I’m consuming.  What do you think of Stevia, btw?

I’m not familiar with it – is it what used to be called Nutrasweet (which got banned in Denmark when I was a teenager)? — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Many diabetics and LC`ers use them, I mean millions of us, are we all wrong and those two right?

so the millions of you that use it are either diabetic or overweight? hmmm…..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.            Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                  DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly. ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

Hi, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.   Which antidepressant?

I’m guessing Paxil.  It’s got a bad rep for that sort of thing. Take care, Carmen

Response:

Hi Lisa, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly.

I guessed wrong then.  I thought it was Paxil.  How did Effexor work with the depression? Take care, Carmen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lisa, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly. I guessed wrong then.  I thought it was Paxil.  How did Effexor work with the depression? Take care, Carmen

Carmen, It did okay, but if I missed a dose by an hour or so the withdrawal symptoms were terrible.  I just couldn’t help thinking what this crap was doing to my body and my brain that I would react that way. I’ve never been much of a drug person anyway and so I’ve just decided to try and get off of it all and treat the FMS some other way. I’m researching vitamin therapy at the moment. ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly.

  I was curious because I’ve known several people who went on Wellbutrin for a short period (to quit smoking) and none of them had any difficulties with it. — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant. Noone told the millions of people using it that it would be addictive and hell to get off of.  There are people all over the internet signing petitions to start a class action lawsuit against the drug company.  Anyway, I digress, but my point is that just because the government says Splenda is safe, imo, does not necessarily make it so. I’ve been reading a few things on it lately and it’s made me a little cautious of using it now. jmo ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar   Just so’s you know, sugar is sugar.  ’Organic sugar’ is no better for you than the regular sucrose that you get in the big bag for cheap.  The organic stuff is more likely to have contamination issues, as well.

i’m well aware that sugar is sugar; however, cane sugar tastes different than beet sugar does, and performs differently in baking.   evaporated cane juice sugar, to me, tastes better and gives better baking results – so that’s what i buy.  evaporated cane juice sugar is usually organic.  i don’t go out of my way to buy organic anything ever (i’m too poor), but the brand of sugar i prefer happens to be organic. so that’s what i typed.  

Response:

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.

  Which antidepressant? — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar

  Just so’s you know, sugar is sugar.  ’Organic sugar’ is no better for you than the regular sucrose that you get in the big bag for cheap.  The organic stuff is more likely to have contamination issues, as well. — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. Now I read that it may be very bad for me.  Should I stop using it and just use regular sugar?  I hate Sweetnlow so that wasn’t an option, and the Equal has got Aspartme (sp).  Having a little sweet something now and then is a treat that I’m hoping I can get one way or the other, I just want to make the best choice. What say you all???

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. Now I read that it may be very bad for me.  Should I stop using it and just use regular sugar?  I hate Sweetnlow so that wasn’t an option, and the Equal has got Aspartme (sp).  Having a little sweet something now and then is a treat that I’m hoping I can get one way or the other, I just want to make the best choice. What say you all???

Hi, Splenda and aspartame are completely and totally safe. They both been repeatedly tested by a whole lot of government regulatory agencies in a whole lot of different countries, and always passed. The possible and imaginary dangers are from the distorted minds of Mad Betty Martin and lunatic David Icke ( in th US and the UK respectively). Many diabetics and LC`ers use them, I mean millions of us, are we all wrong and those two right? hth — Al, Melton Mowbray, UK, diabetic Low-Carb a la Bernstein

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now.

When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Question:

Thanks (((((Everyone))))) For such a warm welcome (back) lol. I’m feeling so good this evening! Yay. Kirsten

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

:I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like :I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with :any. I’ll just try and post more often Dear Kirsten, Welcome back!~  Don`t worry about not posting, people are allowed to come and go as freely as they want, there are no rules here Sorry about your breakup with Brad {{{{{Kirsten}}}}} Jackie ~*~My life has been a tapestry of rich and royal hue, an everlasting vision of the everchanging view~*~ ~Carole King~

Response:

Hi Kirsten! Good to see you here.  Please don’t apologize.  This is only reserved for me.  <g  Just kidding.  I’m sorry about you and Brad, but glad to see you’re still friends.  I hope Effexor helps with the depression. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Good to see you again, Kirsten. Effexor is a good med for depression. Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi Kirsten, You don’t need any excuses for not posting.  Real life is more important for us all.  Glad to have you back! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi, Kirsten, Yes, I remember you.  Glad to know you are doing fairly well.  Sorry to hear about you and Brad but if you are able to remain friends, that’s terrific. Hope the Effexor helps you.  Zoloft really lifted a lot of my depression. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have experience with taking Celexa vs. Prozac?  Thanks so much.

Response:

Does anyone have experience with taking Celexa vs. Prozac?  Thanks so much.

I tried Prozac once a long time ago, but I had to stop after a few days. Prozac made me extremely anxious. Celexa is the best SSRI I have taken. I just switched from Zoloft to Celexa, and Celexa is equally or more effective as an anti-depressant with fewer and milder side effects than Zoloft, which is already a lot better than Prozac.

Response:

Question:

Modern SSRI antidepressants are good at preventing both depression and ejaculation…..     It’s a well known but little discussed side effect of drugs like prozac, zoloft, effexor, citalopram….. Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

– Some of my colleagues think that the chemicals we are experimenting with could potentially cause brain damage, however I think that fish crunchy bits of salami my new red hippie noodle. Naked pool frogs?

Response:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

It is possible to abuse sex. It can be very effective as a means of reducing anxiety. It is an addiction much as drinking exsessive amounts of alcohol. Doubt if it’s biochemical any more then an alcoholic that feels depressed when drinking. Contact a therapist that knows anything about sexual issues. And a lot of them don’t know so don’t settle for the first you find. They might also tell you if there is a possibillity that it is a biochemical reaction. J.

Response:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

Response:

I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem?

Stop ejaculating and get some good therapy?? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

Question:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:43:59 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB

 Like I said in a previous post, start looking at porn yourself and when he gets upset about it just say he is going to have to get over it. It will show him how you feel when he says it to you. The end result will hopefully be he gets the hint.

Response:

Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net

,

  KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He

says

that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking

out

this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My

husband

also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex

itself

that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is

disgusting, I

think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!".

every

5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is

every

where and free. Karen

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:49:48 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!?

For you is the issue the porn or the fact he is unemployed?  Put another way, if he was working, would this matter as long as you also had a good sex life? Is the porn a new development? Floridanewbie — Love may be blind but marriage is a real eye opener.

Response:

Do you want me to? rg "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010122165116.04553.00000626@ng-cc1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as

to

place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a

male,

have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for

the

offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try

to

prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it

in

the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman

in

the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost

irreplaceable

in a man’s life. rg Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

,,control freak,,shakes head,,, Doc Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

If he is unemployed, then he should NOT be spending money on this. This is a totally unnecessary expense. He should be looking for a job, or training for one. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94i9to$b1f$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net,   KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!!

I agree about the control.  Things outside of ourselves do not "make" us feel one way or another.  We make ourselves feel the way we do…as a conditioned or congicent response.  Buddism has much to say about that. But I don’t think divorce is the answer.  There is lots of room for resolution of this problem…and it may require a compromise in which he spends a little less time viewing…and you spend a little more time viewing. rg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg

Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/    Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen

Response:

You are *not* being unreasonable.  I would wonder why, when something is this important to you, your husband has to turn into "dork mode" and make a case out of it being "your problem".    Hopefully he can be brought around to seeing what a selfish action this is, and how counter-productive to an intimate relationship this is. Best of luck, LS

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JohnyK wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..  Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

I agree with JohnnyK on this, go to a porn site just for Women and see if he likes it.

Response:

Karen, Can you explain the ‘comfort and security’ males get from this? I have the same problem at home also, and it causes me many days of grief wondering what’s wrong with me/him. I’m trying to understand exactly what it is that they get from viewing all this porn. Mine does it when I’m not home, boy does that really want to make me leave the house!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen

Response:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB In article <94hprh$6k…@carroll.library.ucla.edu

,

  ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen blueskies…@my-deja.com writes: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -blueskies…@my-deja.com writes:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Response:

thank you for the food for thought. You hit quite a few nails on the head. Now, I just have to figure out how 2 bullheaded people to work through the underlying issues…… or not.  Thank you for your helpful insights, except of course for the one that said HE should divorce me over it… KB peel an onion and there are many layers…. In article <94hj3g$u…@bob.news.rcn.net

,

  "urf" <urf…@nospam.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior

that has

you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it

out on

him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment

to you.

No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection

shown

towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this

but

other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be

another

example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were

positive you

would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he

admired a

picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that

he

might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote in message news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: "urf" urf…@nospam.com In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction.

Actually it is possible that she is having an emotional reaction and he is having a physical reaction.  One of the things that porn allows is to numb out and NOT feel emotions…which is why some men choose it.  It enables them to stay in a state of numbness and not have to experience emotions.

This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING.

Not necessarily.  She is reacting to his behavior…they may not necessarily be as closely related to feeling as they are to simply responding.

When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling.

It is a good idea for each of them to figure out why they are feeling or responding or reacting in the ways that they are.  It is my guess that he is too much into the *doing* and she is into the *responding* that going into the feeling just may not be possible (right now). Anger, insecurity, control and fear are certainly issues that might exist for this poster.  Since she is in a marriage, it makes sense for the two of them to be working together on what emotions exist (or are missing)…and for the two of them to look inward.  Not just her….porn issues in a marriage are a two way street.

Response:

In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote:

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues,

No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed, it might have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. **********

and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change.

Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who was getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel about that situation? CJ

Response:

Yes, I think you are overreacting. I recommend Nadine Strossen’s book "Defending Pornography." Also, try watching a porn movie on your own. You might like it. — Walt In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s

my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior that has you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it out on him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment to you. No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection shown towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this but other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be another example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were positive you would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he admired a picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that he might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <20010122034152.11992.00000…@ng-fl1.aol.com

,

  cjmorga…@aol.com (CJMorgan59) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote: $20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that

he

visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great

deal

of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal

favorite!!!).

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed,

it might

have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. ********** and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who

was

getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel

about

that situation? CJ

As long as I was getting all the attention I needed too, it wouldn’t bother me a bit.  I have no need to control her mind.  Since she says they have a great sex life, the problem is obviously her control issues. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: blueskies…@my-deja.com I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before).

This topic has been discussed before.  Many a time.  And if it weren’t you, it would be someone else to bring it up again…and again and again.  So, no need to apologize )

My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

There are men that can look at porn and it’s no big deal…sometimes it turns them on and they end up making love to their wives and all is well that ends well.  Then there are men that look at porn and all kinds of problems occur…anywhere from not being able to get it up to getting it up and not being able to climax with their spouse.  And many other problems in between. Just like, some people can have a glass or two of wine andthere is no problem and for others, having a glass of wine turns into a problem.

I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable.

Some of it may be your stuff (insecurity or low self esteem) and some of it may be his stuff (more than just plain old guy stuff).  Have you tried talking to him about this…when he is not doing what you don’t like?

Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense.

So it’s safe to assume that you’re thinking, "if our sex life is frequent and satisfying and intense, then why the hell does he need that crap?"  While it doesn’t make sense to you…it may make sense to him.  Have you ever asked him what it is about the porno that keeps him interested?

I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears

Many people will continue to do what they do despite protestations…men or women.  The bottom line is that he is aware that it is bothering you.  It is important that you both reach some kind of understanding about what porno means to each of you.  Until then, you won’t be able to find some common ground.

I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem…

I feel confident in saying that each of you has a  problem with it…it not simply a matter of it being only one you with a problem.  I am not saying that both of you are messed up..but what I am saying is that somewhere, at some time, some wiring went in a particular direction and you both have to find a way to re-wire yourselves in order to connect.    He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

I think that you both need some intervention.  A person who can help both of you understand where each of you are.  Without knowing both of you, I can’t realistically say that either of you are wrong.  What I feel confident in saying is that you both could use an unbiased party to help you both understand each other better.  Both of you can bet your needs met if you can better listen to each other. Chances are, you are going to get some strong opinions about porn in here.  I strongly advice you to take what you need and leave the rest.  DO NOT take what posters say personally.  Everyone has their idea of pornography and not everyone has a full understanding of the possiblity of porn not necessarily being healthy in all relationships.   Hang in there!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

 Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

Response:

Question:

Have your blood pressure checked

Had it checked a few weeks ago.  It was fine.  If anything, it is too low. I’m dealing with the VA!!  Jerks that they are, just got off the phone with a VA pharmacist who told me that "perhaps I was coming down with the flu."  Doc is not in, and nobody seems to know when he WILL be in. <sigh

Luanne

Response:

LuanneP <luan…@aol.comet

wrote: Have your blood pressure checked Had it checked a few weeks ago.  It was fine.  If anything, it is too low.

If it’s a bit on the low side, than it could be orthostatic hypotension. Have it myself as long as I can remember – it’s causing dizzyness after a (rapid) change of position. I experienced  a total _different_ kind of dizzyness due to effexor: it’s like all my limbs and my head are way ahead of me all the time – I can _see_ where my arms and legs are, but I sense them way behind, and it takes a while for the visual and sensoreous input to  catch up.  That leads to a very intruiging kind of drowsiness when I move my head – interesting experience, but I’m glad it’s over now! dagdag, sterre — .nosig

Response:

Luanne, I am on Serzone and I have had slight dizziness recently.  I dont know if its the chemical, but there are other reasons for dizziness.  One is that there is a bug going round at the moment that causes dizziness.  There are other things, like ear infections, low blood sugar, stress etc. best wishes estelle.

Response:

Maybe somebody can help me with this.  I am on 300 mg. Effexor daily, along with 1.5 mgs and 25 mgs desyrel at night (for sleep.)  I have been on this ‘current cocktail’ for three years now.  Just recently, I started to experience extreme dizziness if, for instance, I bend over to pick up something, and stand up again.  Usually happens in the early part of the day, and kind of scary… Does this happen to anyone here, and why, after three years would I start to experience this side effect now?  This morning, I almost fell over, I got so dizzy after picking up some change I dropped on the floor. Sincerely, Luanne

Response:

You’re safest thing to do is to call and speak with your doctor as soon as you can.  It may be something as simple as your body changing as you get older and requiring an adjustment in the medication.

 Thanks, Wall, That’s what I was going to do….call my doc on Monday.  Thing is, I’ve been sneezing all day, so maybe getting a headcold so that would explain the dizziness too.   Now y’all know a Dizzy Blonde! <g

Luanne

Response:

luan…@aol.comet (LuanneP) wrote:

Maybe somebody can help me with this.  I am on 300 mg. Effexor daily, along with 1.5 mgs and 25 mgs desyrel at night (for sleep.)  I have been on this ‘current cocktail’ for three years now.  Just recently, I started to experience extreme dizziness if, for instance, I bend over to pick up something, and stand up again.  Usually happens in the early part of the day, and kind of scary…

Have your blood pressure checked.  One of the possible side effects of Effexor is elevated blood pressure.  While I was on it, I was also taking two blood pressure medications, and still found myself in the ER a few times with blood pressure of 230/150.  It wasn’t pretty.  Now that I’m on Wellbutrin, I only have to take one medication for blood pressure, and it’s under perfect control.  Just one possibility … ask your doctor about the blood pressure thing, though. (BTW, symptoms of blood pressure problems (for me) included:  dizziness, pounding in the head, and I could feel the blood throbbing through my carotid artery (the big ones in the front corners of the neck) and in my chest.) Hope you find whatever is wrong and get it straightened out. Carol ********* The Mercurial Mind ********* The Wonderful World of Bipolar Disorder http://members.xoom.com/merc_mind/

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please…

When the ambulance chasers salivating with greed invaded this newsgroup right after the recall, they were looking for people to join class actions for either of the two drugs. Inasmuch as I know someone who joined such a suit "just in case" — even though she had experienced no harm from the phen/fen — I can only assume that they got some Redux users, as well. I don’t know that any suits have been filed, but I know they were trying to get them started. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please… When the ambulance chasers salivating with greed invaded this newsgroup right after the recall, they were looking for people to join class actions for either of the two drugs. Inasmuch as I know someone who joined such a suit "just in case" — even though she had experienced no harm from the phen/fen — I can only assume that they got some Redux users, as well. I don’t know that any suits have been filed, but I know they were trying to get them started.

Oh, so when you were talking about "dangerous side effects" and "enormous lawsuits" above you were talking about fen/Redux, and not Meridia, right? That wasn’t clear to me. As far as I know, the statute of limitations for filing class action suits on behalf of fen/phen "victims" has expired and I know of none that have been filed on time. As to invididual suits, none of them came out in favor of the so-called "victim". To email me, remove the X

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

I was on it for 6 weeks.  Didn’t work worth a damn–in fact, I think I gained a few pounds. My doctor switched me to phentermine, and I’ve been losing approx 10 pounds/month–35 now since May 1. — Steve Dyer

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.

My doctor put me on Meridia 4 weeks ago and so far so good!  I’ve lost 15 pounds and found that I feel full without a lot of cravings.  I’m also on  1000 calorie diet and trying to exercise on my treadmill 3-4 times a week.   I’ve been on 10mg but I’ve been feeling hungry and cravings the last few days so they’ve upped my prescription to 15mg which I’ll fill tomorrow. My major side effect was dry mouth, which has abated somewhat.  I had a killer headache on the second day but none since.  My blood pressure and heart rate are monitored regularly and haven’t shown any change, but I have always had low blood pressure so I wasn’t too worried about that possibility.  I was never on Fen/Phen so I can’t compare Meridia to it.  It is definitely nice to feel full without overeating for a change!! Kim 245/230/135 ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc.                www.compusmiths.com   — Crafting Solutions for Computers

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If you give Meridia a try, I recommend having a complete physical before starting and then monitoring your blood pressure and heart rate carefully – perhaps even daily at first! While individual responses vary, mine was not so good. It suppressed my appetite to almost zero (positive!) but heart rate and blood pressure went up a lot. I felt great for the first two days. Then on day three of taking the medication I became so nauseous and light-headed I almost passed out at work and required medical attention. I was taking the recommended starting dose of 10 mg/day. It took three days for my heart rate to return to normal. The effect on my appetite was so dramatic that I am considering trying again at 5 mg dosage or taking 10 mg only every other day or two. — Katie– I never believe anything until it’s been officially denied. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

Response:

My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits.

What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please…

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

I just went off Meridia after two non-effective months.  I had killer PMS while on it too– carbo/salt cravings you wouldn’t believe. My dr attributes this to the weight I already lost– says that my hormones are just working much better now. Well gee thanks hormones. I’ve gained back 7 since they took away the Fen…. and somedays I feel like I’m tottering on the edge of gaining it all back – M.

Response:

My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

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  As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to   phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia.

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  My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to   Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects. There’s one other difference between Meridia and phen/fen: phen/fen worked, and Meridia doesn’t. Meridia wins on one count, however: it’s more expensive than phen/fen was. I predict that Meridia will be gone within a year, not because of some terrible side effect that’s discovered, but because it simply won’t sell. It doesn’t work any better than placebo.

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Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia.

Although I experienced a minor decrease in appetite while taking prozac, from what I understand more people gain weight on it than actually lose weight.  Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

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I’ve never heard of weight gain with Effexor.  A certain percentage of people experience weight loss with it, but the weight loss isn’t very significant.  I’ve been wondering lately whether Effexor combined with phentermine might be useful.  You could end up with overstimulation, at least theoretically, but it seems like they would potentiate one another. A few years ago, Lilly was going to try to get Prozac indicated for obesity. It does seem to suppress appetite in some people, but the effect is inconsistent, and even when it works, it’s not very dramatic. The world is still waiting for a really effective pharmacotherapy for obesity.  Phen/fen really seemed to have been it for a certain number of people, but I wasn’t one of them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia. Although I experienced a minor decrease in appetite while taking prozac, from what I understand more people gain weight on it than actually lose weight.  Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

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:   I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found :   anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone :   have any info/ideas? : I haven’t found anything anywhere specifically addressing the combination. : A good place to look for information on stuff like this is MedLine, which : you can get to at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ Okay, thanks. : The chemical name of Effexor is venlafaxine (MedLine refers to drugs by : their chemical names). : I’ve been searching for information on the combination of venlafaxine and : phentermine lately.  If I find anything, I’ll be sure to post it. : One possible concern about this combo would definitely be blood pressure. : Effexor, like Meridia (they’re very similar drugs) can cause a sustained : increase in blood pressure.  Phentermine can increase blood pressure too, : and should be used with caution where there’s already high blood pressure. : Of course, obesity has its own health risks, and on the balance, the risks : of the drug-induced hypertension may be offset by the benefits of weight : loss.  At least, this was the argument that Knoll (makers of Meridia) made : to get their product on the market. Yes, I’m a little worried about this doctor’s attention to health-related side effects – I realized after I left his office that he hadn’t even taken my blood pressure!  I’ve been having my blood pressure read every month or so throughout all med changes (phen/fen, phen/pro, etc.), and it’s always been around 110/70, so I’m not terribly worried, but obviously I’m going to have to be the one staying on top of what side effects to be worried about. It’s hard finding a doc who is informed about the brain/body aspects of obesity, knows the meds, the possible side effects, is open-minded (doesn’t prescribe diet/exercise exclusively), knows how to listen, and is a good overall doctor…  I just recently got med insurance after doing without (stupid, I know; I kept _meaning_ to get an individual plan, but the cost was offputting) for almost 2 years.  So I’m shopping. Julie

Response:

My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects. There’s one other difference between Meridia and phen/fen: phen/fen worked, and Meridia doesn’t. Meridia wins on one count, however: it’s more expensive than phen/fen was. I predict that Meridia will be gone within a year, not because of some terrible side effect that’s discovered, but because it simply won’t sell. It doesn’t work any better than placebo.

Placebos work for some people; so does Meridia. If it has to be expensive to have that effect, so be it. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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  I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found   anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone   have any info/ideas? I haven’t found anything anywhere specifically addressing the combination. A good place to look for information on stuff like this is MedLine, which you can get to at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ The chemical name of Effexor is venlafaxine (MedLine refers to drugs by their chemical names). I’ve been searching for information on the combination of venlafaxine and phentermine lately.  If I find anything, I’ll be sure to post it. One possible concern about this combo would definitely be blood pressure. Effexor, like Meridia (they’re very similar drugs) can cause a sustained increase in blood pressure.  Phentermine can increase blood pressure too, and should be used with caution where there’s already high blood pressure. Of course, obesity has its own health risks, and on the balance, the risks of the drug-induced hypertension may be offset by the benefits of weight loss.  At least, this was the argument that Knoll (makers of Meridia) made to get their product on the market.

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: I’ve never heard of weight gain with Effexor.  A certain percentage of : people experience weight loss with it, but the weight loss isn’t very : significant.  I’ve been wondering lately whether Effexor combined with : phentermine might be useful.  You could end up with overstimulation, at : least theoretically, but it seems like they would potentiate one another. Funny you should mention this.  Just yesterday I saw a new doctor, who seems to be developing a subspecialty in treating weight.  I told him my history – success with phen/fen, no success with Meridia or phen/pro or phen/wellbutrin, maintaining with difficulty on phen and 5-HTP.  He said that the only combo he’s been having success with has been phentermine and Effexor, so I’m starting that today.  Currently 30 mgs phentermine, 37.5 Effexor.   I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone have any info/ideas? Julie

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I have been getting killer headaches when I take 15 mg, but not when I take 10 mg.  It’s happening consistantly enough that I think it’s related to the dosage.  Otherwise, I’ve been really happy with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia. My doctor put me on Meridia 4 weeks ago and so far so good!  I’ve lost 15 pounds and found that I feel full without a lot of cravings.  I’m also on  1000 calorie diet and trying to exercise on my treadmill 3-4 times a week.   I’ve been on 10mg but I’ve been feeling hungry and cravings the last few days so they’ve upped my prescription to 15mg which I’ll fill tomorrow. My major side effect was dry mouth, which has abated somewhat.  I had a killer headache on the second day but none since.  My blood pressure and heart rate are monitored regularly and haven’t shown any change, but I have always had low blood pressure so I wasn’t too worried about that possibility.  I was never on Fen/Phen so I can’t compare Meridia to it.  It is definitely nice to feel full without overeating for a change!! Kim 245/230/135 ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc.                www.compusmiths.com   — Crafting Solutions for Computers

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Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

I gained weiht on both drugs, not as much on Prozac, but quite a bit on Effexor, say 20 pounds over a 6 month period. JaneG

Response:

My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

If they exercise and diet WITHOUT the pills they’ll lose 4 lbs a month.  It doesn’t sound like it’s worth it.

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Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’ve been takin valium (as needed ) to try to endure panic attacks. : This, however, does not let me enjoy the outdoor activities I used to : love.  My doctor thinks I should give anti-depressants a try.  Has : anyone ever used this drug and if so, does it help the "thought : process" or take away any of the "fear" or avoidance of certain : places?  I would appreciate any info on this drug. : I was just put on Zoloft in February, 96 for panic disorder. It was a : gradually increasing dosage because of my sensitivity to these types : of drugs (Prozac, Effexor etc.) Meanwhile I am still doing 2 mg./daily : of Xanax. I am up to 50mg. of Zoloft now and its been 8 weeks. I do : notice a slight difference in my mood and attitude. The game plan is : to wean me off the Xanax and increase the Zoloft until I am Xanax : free. I don’t completely buy this yet because the Zoloft still makes : me feel speedy and uncomfortable. I don’t know if it will eventually : help me although my shrink says give it time. In the end, only YOU : know what’s right for your body. Incidentally, I was on Valium for : many years but switched to Xanax. It’s a lot safer. I was diagnosed with depression last october and was immediately put on Zoloft.  After on it for a few months I realized that my anxiety was almost completely gone.  My depression, however, started coming back to what it was before Zoloft.  I recently stopped it to take Manerix and my anxiety came back full force and I started having severe panic attacks.   For me, Zoloft was amazing for anxiety but everyone’s different. —

My experiences are quite similar vto Paula’s.  I have been on Zoloft for over a year, and it is the best med I have used for PD.  I have previously been on Ativan, Xanax, Tofrenil (made me sleep 20 hrs a day), Elavil, Thorazine, Stelozine, Valium and a host of others. -Scott

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: I’ve been takin valium (as needed ) to try to endure panic attacks. : This, however, does not let me enjoy the outdoor activities I used to : love.  My doctor thinks I should give anti-depressants a try.  Has : anyone ever used this drug and if so, does it help the "thought : process" or take away any of the "fear" or avoidance of certain : places?  I would appreciate any info on this drug. : I was just put on Zoloft in February, 96 for panic disorder. It was a : gradually increasing dosage because of my sensitivity to these types : of drugs (Prozac, Effexor etc.) Meanwhile I am still doing 2 mg./daily : of Xanax. I am up to 50mg. of Zoloft now and its been 8 weeks. I do : notice a slight difference in my mood and attitude. The game plan is : to wean me off the Xanax and increase the Zoloft until I am Xanax : free. I don’t completely buy this yet because the Zoloft still makes : me feel speedy and uncomfortable. I don’t know if it will eventually : help me although my shrink says give it time. In the end, only YOU : know what’s right for your body. Incidentally, I was on Valium for : many years but switched to Xanax. It’s a lot safer. I was diagnosed with depression last october and was immediately put on Zoloft.  After on it for a few months I realized that my anxiety was almost completely gone.  My depression, however, started coming back to what it was before Zoloft.  I recently stopped it to take Manerix and my anxiety came back full force and I started having severe panic attacks.   For me, Zoloft was amazing for anxiety but everyone’s different. — | Owner of Absolutely Nothing in Mount Pearl, NF | above are not those of   | | Musician at heart, nobody by trade, writer of  | the writer, James Oakley,| | garbage, student at Cabot College in St. John’s| but are those of the     | | Newfoundland, Canada.  My telephone number only| voices in his head, Larry|

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I’ve been takin valium (as needed ) to try to endure panic attacks. This, however, does not let me enjoy the outdoor activities I used to love.  My doctor thinks I should give anti-depressants a try.  Has anyone ever used this drug and if so, does it help the "thought process" or take away any of the "fear" or avoidance of certain places?  I would appreciate any info on this drug.

I was just put on Zoloft in February, 96 for panic disorder. It was a gradually increasing dosage because of my sensitivity to these types of drugs (Prozac, Effexor etc.) Meanwhile I am still doing 2 mg./daily of Xanax. I am up to 50mg. of Zoloft now and its been 8 weeks. I do notice a slight difference in my mood and attitude. The game plan is to wean me off the Xanax and increase the Zoloft until I am Xanax free. I don’t completely buy this yet because the Zoloft still makes me feel speedy and uncomfortable. I don’t know if it will eventually help me although my shrink says give it time. In the end, only YOU know what’s right for your body. Incidentally, I was on Valium for many years but switched to Xanax. It’s a lot safer.

Response:

I’ve been takin valium (as needed ) to try to endure panic attacks. This, however, does not let me enjoy the outdoor activities I used to love.  My doctor thinks I should give anti-depressants a try.  Has anyone ever used this drug and if so, does it help the "thought process" or take away any of the "fear" or avoidance of certain places?  I would appreciate any info on this drug.

I have used Zoloft for a little over 2 years, was drug free for a year and a half, and now have been on Zoloft again for a little over a year. I took Valium for about 5 years, and it wrecked me.  The Zoloft works very, very well for me. -Scott

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I’ve been takin valium (as needed ) to try to endure panic attacks. This, however, does not let me enjoy the outdoor activities I used to love.  My doctor thinks I should give anti-depressants a try.  Has anyone ever used this drug and if so, does it help the "thought process" or take away any of the "fear" or avoidance of certain places?  I would appreciate any info on this drug.

Response: