Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Flovent 220 » cold/asthma/anxiety

cold/asthma/anxiety

Question:

you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

You might discuss taking a prednisone burst. It is not a fun medication to take (I refer to it as "The side effect of the week medication.") but it should help you get through the cold. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Hi. You shoudl be on more flovent. I was put on flovent 220 four puffs a day (the higher dose) when I was still having problems. your dose should definitely be increased!!! Ask for some flonase for your nose (isn’t habit forming, it is just like the steroid inhaler for your lungs). I have some similar problems to you, and using the albuterol too much, and using slo-bid (theophylline) were the WORST things I could do for any sort of anxiety attacks. Decongestant is FINE unless the doctor told you not to take it due to your other medications. Summary: get some extra meds to get you through your cold, and get the health people to give you the flovent 220! In the meantime, a pred. burst may be necessary. -jenny ideas as to what might help, that would NOT tend to make one nervous, i could really use them…the pseudoephedrine HELPS, but I still as I said had to use my inhaler in class a few hours after taking it this morning, and waking up in the morning or middle of the night gasping is not fun (as I’m sure many of you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

Jennifer Gerbi http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~gerbi Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 1-113 ESB (217)244-0332

Response:

Talk to your doctor about all this. Your doctor and you must decide how bad your anxiety disorder is and the risks of adding drugs that exasperate this condition. However, it is common to do a short dose of oral prednisone when asthmatics get ill. Talk to your doctor about this possibility to get you through until your cold gets better. Upping your Flovent may help some but I’d probably go for the prednisone in this instance. Again, talk to your doctor and see what he/she suggests to get you through it. Pseudoephedrine (I’m guessing OTC) is a broad spectrum agonist against your adrenergic receptors so this is probably why you’re feeling more anxious while taking it. Albuterol is specific for the beta-2 receptor so it mainly acts on the smooth muscles in your lung dilating them, although some gets in your system and can certainly make you more anxious also. If it was me, I’d go for a short prednisone burst, but talk to your doc and see what they think.

Nah, I was told pred is for RED zone….I’m only in the upper end of yellow. And form what people here have been saying, that stuff gets people’s emotions terribly messed up all by itself. sounds like the last thing I want to be taking —

Response:

It sounds like a lot of your symptoms are related to post nasal drip. The nasal steroids are one good solution, but they will take a few days to do have an effect. The sedating antihistamines like Benedryl can dry the nose though their side effects, not necessarily from the histamine action. Avoid this if you are having a lot of chest congestion. Using saline nasal sprays every hour or two can help, as well as drinking hot liquids. If the Sudafed is helping your nose and not giving you anxiety problems then go with it. You will know if it gets you too hyped up. You and your doctor may just have to agree on a plan that includes stimulants when your asthma warrants and combat the effects with other sedatives. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey…got a little problem here. I have a cold which is exacerbating my asthma badly. I’ve had to use albuterol for it several times (including this morning in class. Trying to take notes on complex math with your hands shaking is bad) in the last week. Now, I’m using that when I feel I need to, and I talked to my doctor once already (first time I was in yellow zone since having the chart set up) and am on Flovent 44 3×3 instead of my normal 2×2. I WAS taking a nasal spray decongestant, which worked pretty well except for wearing off before 12 hours was up, BUT you can only use that for 4 days and my 4 days are up. I AM taking pseudoephedrine now, but I’m really not supposed to; I have some sort of anxiety disorder (that I’ve very recently been put on meds for) and so I’m not supposed to take things that could make it worse. Now, admittedly my instincts say that the psuedoephedrine makes me less nervous than constantly using albuterol….but if anyone has any other ideas as to what might help, that would NOT tend to make one nervous, i could really use them…the pseudoephedrine HELPS, but I still as I said had to use my inhaler in class a few hours after taking it this morning, and waking up in the morning or middle of the night gasping is not fun (as I’m sure many of you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey…got a little problem here. I have a cold which is exacerbating my asthma badly. I’ve had to use albuterol for it several times (including this morning in class. Trying to take notes on complex math with your hands shaking is bad) in the last week. Now, I’m using that when I feel I need to, and I talked to my doctor once already (first time I was in yellow zone since having the chart set up) and am on Flovent 44 3×3 instead of my normal 2×2. I WAS taking a nasal spray decongestant, which worked pretty well except for wearing off before 12 hours was up, BUT you can only use that for 4 days and my 4 days are up. I AM taking pseudoephedrine now, but I’m really not supposed to; I have some sort of anxiety disorder (that I’ve very recently been put on meds for) and so I’m not supposed to take things that could make it worse. Now, admittedly my instincts say that the psuedoephedrine makes me less nervous than constantly using albuterol….but if anyone has any other ideas as to what might help, that would NOT tend to make one nervous, i could really use them…the pseudoephedrine HELPS, but I still as I said had to use my inhaler in class a few hours after taking it this morning, and waking up in the morning or middle of the night gasping is not fun (as I’m sure many of you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

Response:

Hey…got a little problem here. I have a cold which is exacerbating my asthma badly. I’ve had to use albuterol for it several times (including this morning in class. Trying to take notes on complex math with your hands shaking is bad) in the last week. Now, I’m using that when I feel I need to, and I talked to my doctor once already (first time I was in yellow zone since having the chart set up) and am on Flovent 44 3×3 instead of my normal 2×2. I WAS taking a nasal spray decongestant, which worked pretty well except for wearing off before 12 hours was up, BUT you can only use that for 4 days and my 4 days are up. I AM taking pseudoephedrine now, but I’m really not supposed to; I have some sort of anxiety disorder (that I’ve very recently been put on meds for) and so I’m not supposed to take things that could make it worse. Now, admittedly my instincts say that the psuedoephedrine makes me less nervous than constantly using albuterol….but if anyone has any other ideas as to what might help, that would NOT tend to make one nervous, i could really use them…the pseudoephedrine HELPS, but I still as I said had to use my inhaler in class a few hours after taking it this morning, and waking up in the morning or middle of the night gasping is not fun (as I’m sure many of you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey…got a little problem here. I have a cold which is exacerbating my asthma badly. I’ve had to use albuterol for it several times (including this morning in class. Trying to take notes on complex math with your hands shaking is bad) in the last week. Now, I’m using that when I feel I need to, and I talked to my doctor once already (first time I was in yellow zone since having the chart set up) and am on Flovent 44 3×3 instead of my normal 2×2. I WAS taking a nasal spray decongestant, which worked pretty well except for wearing off before 12 hours was up, BUT you can only use that for 4 days and my 4 days are up. I AM taking pseudoephedrine now, but I’m really not supposed to; I have some sort of anxiety disorder (that I’ve very recently been put on meds for) and so I’m not supposed to take things that could make it worse. Now, admittedly my instincts say that the psuedoephedrine makes me less nervous than constantly using albuterol….but if anyone has any other ideas as to what might help, that would NOT tend to make one nervous, i could really use them…the pseudoephedrine HELPS, but I still as I said had to use my inhaler in class a few hours after taking it this morning, and waking up in the morning or middle of the night gasping is not fun (as I’m sure many of you know) particularly with sinus pressure. I AM going to talk to Health Services here and if they don’t have any bright ideas call my doctor at home again. Anyone know of anything I might try? — Emily

Regarding nasal sprays, the steroid ones are very effective and can be used long term; Flonase, Rhinocort, Vancenase A nonsteroidal OTC one that can be tried is Nasalcrom (cromolyn) It’s moderately effective and can be used long term; needs to be used 3-4x/day for a couple of weeks to become effective. Regarding Flovent 44, this is the weakest of the formulations. In your case may be more practical to go to the middle formulation, Flovent 110. A twice a day regimen should be sufficient. One or two puffs. The higher steroid dose should control the asthma better. You really should stay away from decongestants if taking antianxiety drugs. Also minimize albuterol useage, no more than once/day. Ellis

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Flovent 220
Tags: 2

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Singulair And Flovent » Singulair and Appetite loss?

Singulair and Appetite loss?

Question:

He has already been to his peditrician twice since his loss of appetite started. He sees his allergist next week for a regular scheduled appointment and I plan on talking to him about it then. The Dilantin was prescribed by a neurologist after he had a seizure. The Singulair was prescribed by the allergist, and he knows about the Dilantin. I tell all the doctors he sees about the all the meds he is on. That includes the dentist and the eye doctor. My reason for posting was to get different opinions from a variety of people. I have found this is often helpfull in obtaining answers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -no advice is intended in this reply, I am merely providing information. QUstions like yours should definitely be referred to your sons doc .. his pediatrician as well as his allergist/pulmonologist. Appetite loss is NOT reported as a common adverse effect of anti-leukotrienes. Diarrhea and nausea are listed just abouyt at the 3% "reportable" level. These same side effects occur with Dilantin and are more common. Did the same doc prescribe the Dilantin and the Singulair? Dilantin is NOT on any common are path for asthma that this researcher is aware of.

Response:

I have been on SINGULAIR for the past month and have noticed no loss of appitite. Actually I find myself more hungry–that’s probably due to the fact that I’m the the height of track season not the SINGULAIR. I was taking ACCOLATE, but trying not to eat two hours before or two hours after taking it was a real drag. Not only is my eating schedule a lot more flexible, but my peak flow is on averege better now that I am on SINGULAR instead of ACCOLATE.

Response:

My 8 year old son started on Singulair about 3 weeks ago. In the middle of March he started on Dilantin. I noticed no change in his appetite until the Singulair was started. A few days after he started it he would hardly eat at all. Now he will only eat in the mornings and afternoons if I make him. He says he is just not hungry. He does eat a full meal at dinner time. But one meal a day is not good for a growing boy. At least not over a long period of time. My thoughts are it may be the Singulair. But then again maybe it is the Dilantin. His first check of Dilantin level was fine. The peditrician had tests done again today for the Dilantin plus a liver and CBC test. I’ll get those results tomorrow. I’m wondering if any others of you who have started Singulair have noticed a loss of appetite?

Loss of appetite is one of the possible listed effects of Dilantin, per the US Pharmacopeia. Perhaps he needs a lower dose of Dilantin. Here’s a link: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenyt.htm phenytoin sodium (Dilantin) Excerpt: "Adverse Reactions: Gastrointestinal System: Nausea, vomiting, constipation, toxic hepatitis and liver damage." Info on Singulair ar www.singulair.com But I think the problem is the Dilantin. (I assume he is taking the child dose of Singulair). Ellis

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Singulair And Flovent
Tags: 1

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Singulair And Flovent » Singulair useful for COPD?

Singulair useful for COPD?

Question:

Is there any research indicating that Singulair can have a beneficial effect for people with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease? I’ve asked my doctor, an internist with a subspecialty in pulmonology, about this, and he was doubtful that the drug would be helpful to me. Since the various "classic" asthma meds are used in treating COPD symptoms, it seems strange that the anti-leukotrienes (and Singulair, in particular) have not been recommended by the drug mfrs. [I posted this question to this list several months ago. I'm asking it again, on the outside chance that there is possibly some new data available.] — Neal Blank http://p3.net/~nealb/

Response:

I am just taking a guess from what I know about Singulair. I am sure If I am way off base here aleast one of you will correct me. Singulair, goes after the chemical that at the root of the problem causes the bronchial spasms. By stopping the spasms there will be less inflammation, in turn lessing the asthma attacks. Bronchistis, and emphysema are due to inflamed bronchial tubes, but are not caused by the spasms that causes the inflammations of asthma, so Singulair will not help. I am not sure if I am right but, this may (or may not)help.

Response:

No I don’t think there is any data available. I note that in the UK the drug is only licensed for asthma. However, I have COPD with a ‘reversible componant’, which means that I respond to corticosteroid therapy with an improvement in PF and FEV1. I also respond to bronchodilators. Call this asthma if you like, and yes I have been perscribed Singulair and yes it seems to have definitely improved things for me. I have now just finished the first months treatment and the improvement I felt within days of taking it seems to have been maintained. Yesterday was the *first day for over ten years* that I have not used a single puff of Ventolin If you can persuade them to let you have it I would say it is worth a try. Regards Rob Remove the spam from address if replying by email

Response:

Not wrong, but an oversimplification. Yes, LTD is a potent broncho-constrictor. BUt it appears to be having at least mild anti-inflammatory effects at least in mild to moderate asthmatics. THe reasons arent clear yet, but bronchospasm can lead to secondary release of mediators (prostaglandin D, Thromboxane A, cytokines, etc) which ARE inflammatory. If LTD even partially inhibits the release of such mediators from mast cells, eosinophils etc, it would have anti-inflammatory effects. BUT – *I* don’t know of any evidence that LTD is a precipitating agent in COPD. If it’s not a major player in that disease, SIngulair/Accolate’s impact is likely to be far less than in asthma. To date, there are no scientific studies of the question. Both LTE and LTB (a leukotriene NOT targeted by Accolate/Singulair) have been shown to be elevated in COPD, but whether reducing that elevation has any effect in the disease doesnt appear to have been studied. IF LTB is importand, COPD may be better treated with Zyflo than with the LT-RAs.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Singulair And Flovent
Tags: 1

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Zoloft Dose » Gonna try CBT,ever do it?

Gonna try CBT,ever do it?

Question:

Hi all, My shrink firmly believes that I am feeding my own panic and I think he may have a point. This is coming from a girl whose had this crappy disorder for 17 years and thought she had no fear left. Lately I find that the increased zoloft dose I’m on helps, but in no way like it used to. The klonopin I took for three months helped a great deal, but I was told it wasn’t good to stay on and is hell to come off. Since I want to have a baby in 3 years, and can only do it on 50mg of zoloft or less I decided to try CBT. I’m tired of popping pills, tired of relapses trying to get off meds, tired of coming all this way and falling down. I haven’t tried CBT yet, and have heard good things about it. HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT..AND IF SO DID IT HELP AT ALL? It’s expensive, but it’s a good investment. What could be better than investing in your health? Even if it works I’m gonna stay at a low dose of zoloft, cause I learned the hard way that coming totally off can be a bad descision, and getting back on it isn’t as effective. I beleive in the mind/body link and think this could help me. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Always, AD

Response:

I haven’t tried CBT yet, and have heard good things about it. HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT..AND IF SO DID IT HELP AT ALL?

AD, What I learned in therapy (CBT) kept me out of the hospital the end of December, when I went into one of my spiraling, deep depressions. It was the first time I’ve ever been that sick and was able to bounce back without a hospitalization. It has helped me VERY much. I hope you have as much success with it as I have. I am very glad that I got a therapist that knew how to counsel me in it. Sara ^..^< Anxiety, I can’t get nothin done Anxiety destroys all the fun – Pat Benetar

Response:

Have a look at: http://www.webdesignsw.com/benzos/Cognitive%20behaviour%20therapy-4%2… You may find something there that will answer your questions. HTH [...]

Response:

Have a look at: http://www.webdesignsw.com/benzos/Cognitive%20behaviour%20therapy-4%2… You may find something there that will answer your questions. HTH

Hello, Thanks for the article. I found it very interesting. AD

Response:

Have a look at: http://www.webdesignsw.com/benzos/Cognitive%20behaviour%20therapy-4%2… You may find something there that will answer your questions. HTH Hello, Thanks for the article. I found it very interesting.

I’m pleased to have been able to help. ;o)

Response:

Hi AD Yes I have been through CBT and it really helped me. It took a combination of CBT and medication (xanax)but it did the trick. I could barely leave my home before and now I am able to lead a relatively normal life. I do hope you have really good success with it. Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, My shrink firmly believes that I am feeding my own panic and I think he may have a point. This is coming from a girl whose had this crappy disorder for 17 years and thought she had no fear left. Lately I find that the increased zoloft dose I’m on helps, but in no way like it used to. The klonopin I took for three months helped a great deal, but I was told it wasn’t good to stay on and is hell to come off. Since I want to have a baby in 3 years, and can only do it on 50mg of zoloft or less I decided to try CBT. I’m tired of popping pills, tired of relapses trying to get off meds, tired of coming all this way and falling down. I haven’t tried CBT yet, and have heard good things about it. HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT..AND IF SO DID IT HELP AT ALL? It’s expensive, but it’s a good investment. What could be better than investing in your health? Even if it works I’m gonna stay at a low dose of zoloft, cause I learned the hard way that coming totally off can be a bad descision, and getting back on it isn’t as effective. I beleive in the mind/body link and think this could help me. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Always, AD

Response:

I do hope you have really good success with it. Deb

Hi Deb, Thanks for letting me know how CBT worked for you. I am very excited about starting, but it is so expensive and i can’t find a therapist who is totally covered by my insurance. A lot of CBT therepists I called said they don’t work with insurance companies because the demand for CBT is so high, they don’t have to! Good for them, bad for me. Always, AD

Response:

Part of CBT is practicing it yourself. Check out some good books on it and they should help you. If you see a therapist every few weeks or so the CBT books will help you practice what the therapist offers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do hope you have really good success with it. Deb Hi Deb, Thanks for letting me know how CBT worked for you. I am very excited about starting, but it is so expensive and i can’t find a therapist who is totally covered by my insurance. A lot of CBT therepists I called said they don’t work with insurance companies because the demand for CBT is so high, they don’t have to! Good for them, bad for me. Always, AD

Response:

HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT..AND IF SO DID IT HELP AT ALL? It’s expensive, but it’s a good investment. What could be better than investing in your health? Even if it works I’m gonna stay at a low dose of zoloft, cause I learned the hard way that coming totally off can be a bad descision, and getting back on it isn’t as effective. I beleive in the mind/body link and think this could help me. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I am a strong advocate of CBT as it helped turn my life around many years ago and 18 months ago after a huge setback. The great thing about it is that even if you have setbacks you can re-apply the strategies you learn. As Mr Anxiety suggested putting the theory into practice is critical. BTW I understand your reluctance to stay on klonopin but it is the other reason I have managed my condition so well. Vanessa

Response:

My pdoc is going to start CBT w/me and told my fdoc to not renew my benzo script because it interferes with success and the rate of relapse is higher. Has your dr said anything to this effect? Lucky me that I got another anti-benzo doc. Just curious because the thought of not having them if I need it frightens me. — ~Heidi~

Response:

There is no hard evidence that CBT without meds works better and has a lower relapse rate than CBT with meds but some CBT hardliners entertain this idea. If you can do without meds that’s great of course but I wouldn’t recommend stopping the regular daily use of a benzo while starting CBT, it tends to muddle the picture IMO. If you take a benzo every now and then *as needed* it can be tried though. What benzo do you take and how often at what dose? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — ~Heidi~ Hi AD Yes I have been through CBT and it really helped me. It took a combination of CBT and medication (xanax)but it did the trick. I could barely leave my home before and now I am able to lead a relatively normal life. I do hope you have really good success with it. Deb Hi all, My shrink firmly believes that I am feeding my own panic and I think he may have a point. This is coming from a girl whose had this crappy disorder for 17 years and thought she had no fear left. Lately I find that the increased zoloft dose I’m on helps, but in no way like it used to. The klonopin I took for three months helped a great deal, but I was told it wasn’t good to stay on and is hell to come off. Since I want to have a baby in 3 years, and can only do it on 50mg of zoloft or less I decided to try CBT. I’m tired of popping pills, tired of relapses trying to get off meds, tired of coming all this way and falling down. I haven’t tried CBT yet, and have heard good things about it. HAVE YOU EVER DONE IT..AND IF SO DID IT HELP AT ALL? It’s expensive, but it’s a good investment. What could be better than investing in your health? Even if it works I’m gonna stay at a low dose of zoloft, cause I learned the hard way that coming totally off can be a bad descision, and getting back on it isn’t as effective. I beleive in the mind/body link and think this could help me. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Always, AD

Response:

Hi Heidi My pdoc is going to start CBT w/me and told my fdoc to not renew my benzo script because it interferes with success and the rate of relapse is higher.

I took xanax the whole six months I was in therapy. My therapist didnt have a problem with it. I doubt I would have even gone to the sessions if I couldnt take the medicine. I was also agorophobic at the time and just being away from home for an hour was terrifying to me but taking the xanax before I left allowed me to calm down enough to be able to go. I cant imagine what it would have been like if I didnt have it. Good luck with your CBT and I hope the Pdoc changes his mind and allows you to take the meds if you feel you really need them to get through it. Deb

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Zoloft Dose
Tags: Zoloft Dose

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Prozac Effexor » What migraine meds can be used with antidepressant meds?

What migraine meds can be used with antidepressant meds?

Question:

Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth

Response:

I wonder…did you ever find any way to deal with the rhinitis? I’ve had that problem for about four years now…drives me crazy. Nasal sprays make me really ill, so for now I just carry lots of Kleenex. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman" I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Yes I finally have found relief with many trials of meds, but like I said in my last post " All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches." The odd thing was the pain I felt across the face( mainly between and around the eyes – also deep inside the nasal passages). I mistook the pain for sinus related when it was not; the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks. The migration of pain was the telltale symptom which made me understand what was really going on; it was migraines (maybe with or without sinus problems). I suffer severely from vaso-motor rhinitis; if I go into a smoky environment without a filtering mask (I use charcoal impregnated 3M paper masks -3M 8247, and they really help me) I might suffer for 1-3 days. I use the nasal spray Nasacort and the anti-histamine nasal spray Astelin. I recently discovered that taking Allegra tabs (60 mg fexafenadine) really relieved the facial migraines, but not the migraines as a whole. My eyes and nasal areas were not involved nearly as much after I took fexafenadine after a week. I gave up on the fexafenadine about a year ago after a few days use, but this time(late this summer and early fall) I tried for over a week; I finally started to get relief from my facial migraine involvement. Now when I get a migraine they just migrate around the head without as much eye nose involvement. I’ve tried all the saline irrigation stuff; it never helped. I have not had a sinus infection since March 2003. I suggest saline nasal spray and saline gel (brand "Ayr") to keep the nasal membranes from drying out; I especially moisten inside my nose before I go to bed at night. The antidepressants Nortriptyline, Trazadone, Prozac, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin, Ritalin, Serzone, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Zoloft, and Amytriptyline have caused my migraines. I have tried some several times (esp. this year), and before I get to a medicating dose I usually suffer migraine symptoms. Amytriptyline made me ill for over a week with migraines even after stopping the drug — truly a hellish experience of migraines. Back to the sinus problems, I try to avoid situations I know will cause me problems. Late summer and fall are usually bad times for me; so, I try to stay indoors as much as possible—-really a screwing because the weather is so nice. I was tested several times for allergies (the 25 most common allergens), and all was negative. There is some allergen involved because this period of time has always been my period for the worst sinus problem with frequent infections. My sinus problems [esp. vaso-motor rhinitis reactors (ex. smoke, and petroleum smells)], most all antidepressants, NSAIDs (aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drugs), and diazepam are migraine triggers to me. I’m very lucky that the VA is helping me now (I couldn’t get help in the late 70’s or 80’s). The health care in the USA is our country’s largest disgrace; it must be changed for the better. 43 million people without health insurance is horrendous; it is even more so when we consider our country as the leading world power. 84 billion dollars sure could help some sick folks here. Our country should be brought up on charges of cruelty and inhuman treatments in some world court. We seem to be generous except with our own people. Our social service system is overwhelmed by the influx of legal and illegal aliens; our country is NO longer a vast wilderness needing pioneers to settle it. Look at our country from a satellite view at night, and see our consumption of power. See how rich we were, and how debt ridden we are getting. Now, right wing gung ho capitalists and impractical liberals alike want the cheap labor the hordes of immigrants can bring. Remember when we talked about population control in the world (late sixties), and we discussed aiming for zero population growth. I guess over population of the world will happen because of politics and religion; the world is doomed because of this. Look at what’s happening with the polar ice cap and read about the effects of all that fresh water pouring into the upper Atlantic. I’m glad I live now instead of 100 years in the future. I guess I have too much time to think——gee I wonder why we talk about Arnold instead of something or someone of substance. Back to sinuses — *<];o)) Sincerely — Randymann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth

Response:

the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks.

That’s very interesting to hear you say that, because many time when I have a migraine, it hurts to breath on the right side (my migraines are usually on the right) of my nostril- the air going up my nose actually causes pain. I hope I explained this coherently- my doctor looks at me like I’m nuts when I tell him this! SueS

Response:

Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Interesting and worth remembering. Thanks for sharing the info. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Have you tried the triptans like Imitrex, Zomig, Maxalt, Frova, Relpax, Amerge, Axert? Also, have you tried Lexapro as an antidepressant. It’s supposed to be a newer, better med. Just some thoughts. Michelle

Response:

I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Prozac Effexor
Tags: Prozac Effexor

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Zoloft For Anxiety » Please help (in Australia and anxious)

Please help (in Australia and anxious)

Question:

I just started taking klonopin. It is a benzo. I like the ideas of benzo because if you have side effects or do not like them you simply stop and they are not in your system forever. Like SSRI like Prozac Zoloft Celexa paxil all take at least 2 to 3 weeks of nasty side effects and making anxiety worse before you feel any relief then if you feel you cannot stand the side effects and stop they stay in your system for like 2 or more weeks still! Benzo is just a fancy term for tranquilizer. I take .25 Klonopin once in the morning and once at night. I have only been on it a week but like it so far. Also Benzo family work instantly like the very first pill you take it reduces anxiety. The only thing is the firs day or so you may feel a little tired while you body adjusts. Then the sleepiness for me went away but the anti anxiety calm feeling is staying so far! Good Luck! Dustin

Response:

Cool Dustin, I am glad it is working for you. Good luck when you put the dosage up again. If it is working now, it will continue to work for you when you add a bit more, then you can concentrate on your "baby steps" getting out in that big wide world again! Take care Imogen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-archive: yes Hi, I posted here almost 2 years ago after suffering a series of panic attacks and extreme anxiety for abt 6 months. Months later, the anxiety is still around, though not as severe. I never had any treatment and it seemed to subside, although my eating habits have remained permanently screwed up. I’ve also had to deal with chronic severe endometriosis, which I finally had treatment for this year, so it has been fairly tough!! My problem is that I am due to begin my Honours year in psychology (ironic? I think so) next year and, to put it frankly, I am terrified that the anxiety is going to come back a lot worse. I already feel sick and shaky thinking about it, and I feel myself getting more and more agitated as the end of the year draws closer. This time, I want to take some kind of medication to help me through it, but I’m unsure when I should see a doctor and request it — since the university year runs from March – November here, I’m thinking early January, so I’ll have the chance to find something that will work hopefully and give it a chance to kick in? I want medication because, looking back, I can remember instances of extreme anxiety dating back to when I was 5 years old, which kinda suggests to me that it might be some kind of neurotransmitter imbalance as opposed to something learnt or directly environmentally triggered. I’ve had this all of my life, and it’s only now that it’s really starting to drive me crazy. I’m so scared I won’t find a med that will work for me. My fingers are just crossed that I will! Any advice on the kind of medication to take? I know that it varies, but I have friends who have taken Zoloft for anxiety and found it very effective, and I’m a little wary of Aropax (Paxil) due to the withdrawal symptoms I have heard about. Any comments/advice would most appreciated. Take care xxxxxxxx I just started taking klonopin. It is a benzo. I like the ideas of benzo because if you have side effects or do not like them you simply stop and they are not in your system forever. Like SSRI like Prozac Zoloft Celexa paxil all take at least 2 to 3 weeks of nasty side effects and making anxiety worse before you feel any relief then if you feel you cannot stand the side effects and stop they stay in your system for like 2 or more weeks still! Benzo is just a fancy term for tranquilizer. I take .25 Klonopin once in the morning and once at night. I have only been on it a week but like it so far. Also Benzo family work instantly like the very first pill you take it reduces anxiety. The only thing is the firs day or so you may feel a little tired while you body adjusts. Then the sleepiness for me went away but the anti anxiety calm feeling is staying so far! Good Luck! Dustin

Response:

Hello, I don’t see any reason for waiting. Why not see a specialist now. You may not need medication. Therapy may help but if you need medication as well it would be helpful to sort it out during your break, rather than worrying about it until next year. Sorry about the endometriosis but I’m pleased you have had treatment. I have been taking medication for years. A combination of Xanax and Efexor XR works for me but we are all different. Welcome to another Aussie. Take care, Meryl (Melbourne)

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Zoloft For Anxiety
Tags: Zoloft For Anxiety

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Effexor Xr With » Effexor helps stimulant work better

Effexor helps stimulant work better

Question:

Self-injury with knives and razors. I would cut on myself when I was depressed, before I got on the right medications. I’m ashamed of it, I still have scars, but I have a great therapist that’s helping me understand why I did that. -Emily

Response:

hi Emily. this is interesting! did you see yourself at all becoming tolerant to the stimulants? If so, did effexor help with this? also, I have anxiety which mostly manifests as stomach pain (nausea/butterflies). did you get this too? Did the drug combo you’re on help? thanks!! – Jason Web Page: http://www.JasonsWeb.com "Quantum Physics: The dreams that makes up stuff"

Response:

Our psychiatrist says that Jesse shouldn’t worry about taking Adderall or Ritalin in eves, as once the brain waves are working correctly sleep should come MORE easily. This isn’t true for all patients, but works for many. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I thought that I would post this and see if anyone else has noticed anything like this. In addition to having ADD, I have clinical depression and severe anxiety. I found that Adderall was like a miracle for my anxiety, because it took away so many of the racing thoughts and ruminations in my head. However, my most difficult time has always been at night. I used to have panic attacks so badly that I would hyperventilate and faint. Well, even though Adderall seems to be the best med. for this, I was told that I couldn’t take it at night, as it might interfere with the onset of sleep. So, my psychiatrist added Xanax for nighttime. Well, even though it seemed to help the anxiety, it actually kept me awake instead of putting me to sleep. It also made me severely depressed and apathetic, to the point where I began to self-injure; something that I hadn’t done for a long, long time. Needless to say, I went right off of it. Anyway, several weeks ago, my psychiatrist put me on the anti-depressant Effexor, saying that it would help with my ADD and anxiety, as well as the depression. Because it acts on norepinepherine as well as serotonin, it’s a good adjunct to stimulants in ADD/ADHD people. Anyways, it has been amazing! After only a week of taking Effexor XR 75mg/day(in the morning), my nighttime anxiety was nearly gone! I also noticed that I didn’t get nearly as irritable when my Adderall wore off in the evening. I used to hate the dropoff that I noticed with my stimulant, and now I can hardly detect it. It just feels like the Effexor has smoothed out my day. I don’t have the peaks and valleys that I had while I was just on Adderall. I am feeling a lot more even. I just thought I would see if anyone else has had an experience with Effexor and ADD. Ciao! -Emily

– Colette

Response:

Effexor has helped many people with ADD+anxiety. I found it helpful until an unusual side effect stopped me from using it. I think I know a little about the razor thing. When I was in high school I had a problem with an ingrown tow nail. The school doc did a painful hack job and the toe eventually got worse. I figured that I could do better without anaesthetic than he did with it. I got out a new razor blade and started cutting carefully. It was a little bloody, but I felt little pain and a sense of quiet calm. It was strangely soothing. I cleaned up the problem. The toe got better and I haven’t had any problems with it since. There’s no need to be ashamed. The cutting was a way of self-treating the anxiety. Effexor is a much better way. You are making progress. George Self-injury with knives and razors. I would cut on myself when I was depressed, before I got on the right medications. I’m ashamed of it, I still have scars, but I have a great therapist that’s helping me understand why I did that. -Emily

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi there! This is great feedback to be getting! I was diagnosed with ADD comorbid with depression five years ago, and got every book on the subject I could find. I joined a support group too. Everything was starting to work out. But because I didn’t have insurance at my job, it was also very expensive. The doctor, plus the counselor, plus the liver tests for the Cylert, plus the cost of the Cylert was forcing me to pay nearly $500 a month out of my pocket. I couldn’t afford it anymore so I quit. Well finally, being very depressed and still ADD, I went to see another psychiatrist that works on a sliding scale. She decided I didn’t have ADD at all because "adults don’t have ADD." She told me that when adults think they have ADD it’s really just Bipolar II. So she put me on lithium. I thought she was wrong but gave her the benefit of the doubt. I tried lithium for a couple of months. It did nothing for me at all. So I gave up on it and went to see a psychiatrist who was more expensive. But by this time I had insurance and could afford him. He told me that I was definitely depressed, that the Bipolar II diagnosis was ludicrous, and that he wasn’t sure about the ADD. He wanted to wait a while to see if ADD is really there and not just depression masquerading as ADD. He put me on Effexor. I got to tell you, the stuff is a miracle drug for me! When I’m on the Effexor, I feel like a totally different person. I feel happier, my thinking is less gloomy and dark. I’m less irritable, and more sociable. But without it, I’m deeply depressed. But the ADD symptoms never really went away. I still have the attention-holding and short-term memory problems. I still can’t read a book with out flying off with a million new ideas. I still get easily distracted, even by my own thoughts. And I still have trouble finishing things. The doctor decided that I am indeed ADD, and now he wants to try me out on Adderal. I pick up the prescription this afternoon. Your feedback is invaluable, and thanks. I hope it works as well for me as it has for you. Cliff Pearson Dallas, Texas USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I thought that I would post this and see if anyone else has noticed anything like this. In addition to having ADD, I have clinical depression and severe anxiety. I found that Adderall was like a miracle for my anxiety, because it took away so many of the racing thoughts and ruminations in my head. However, my most difficult time has always been at night. I used to have panic attacks so badly that I would hyperventilate and faint. Well, even though Adderall seems to be the best med. for this, I was told that I couldn’t take it at night, as it might interfere with the onset of sleep. So, my psychiatrist added Xanax for nighttime. Well, even though it seemed to help the anxiety, it actually kept me awake instead of putting me to sleep. It also made me severely depressed and apathetic, to the point where I began to self-injure; something that I hadn’t done for a long, long time. Needless to say, I went right off of it. Anyway, several weeks ago, my psychiatrist put me on the anti-depressant Effexor, saying that it would help with my ADD and anxiety, as well as the depression. Because it acts on norepinepherine as well as serotonin, it’s a good adjunct to stimulants in ADD/ADHD people. Anyways, it has been amazing! After only a week of taking Effexor XR 75mg/day(in the morning), my nighttime anxiety was nearly gone! I also noticed that I didn’t get nearly as irritable when my Adderall wore off in the evening. I used to hate the dropoff that I noticed with my stimulant, and now I can hardly detect it. It just feels like the Effexor has smoothed out my day. I don’t have the peaks and valleys that I had while I was just on Adderall. I am feeling a lot more even. I just thought I would see if anyone else has had an experience with Effexor and ADD. Ciao! -Emily

– Cliff Pearson Dallas Progressive Action League 1920 Abrams Parkway, #354 Dallas, Texas 75214-6218 Hotline: (214) 319-9819 Web: http://www.dallasprogressive.org

Response:

Oh darn! I was hoping to be able to claim the silly curls on something……. lol — Annie

| | I have very low blood pressure by nature (must be the curly hair lol). I | guess with the meds , my BP is normal. | | Nah, it’s not the curly hair, mine’s straight and my normal BP is | 80/58. | | — | Ann

Response:

| Effexor can cause elevated high blood pressure and possible | sedation. These were the reasons I quit taking it two weeks | ago, and went back to Prozac – for the additional pep, and also | because I stated taking stronger stims which also elevate BP. | | Could either of these be the unusual side effect? | I have very low blood pressure by nature (must be the curly hair lol). I guess with the meds , my BP is normal. I talked to my GP about Prozac and she told me that it was normally given to people who are very low energy wise and that I was too peppy for that drug….. oh well…. — Annie

| Effexor can cause elevated high blood pressure and possible | sedation. These were the reasons I quit taking it two weeks | ago, and went back to Prozac – for the additional pep, and also | because I stated taking stronger stims which also elevate BP. | | Could either of these be the unusual side effect? | | John | | | | | Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. | Up to 100 minutes free! | http://www.keen.com |

Response:

I have very low blood pressure by nature (must be the curly hair lol). I guess with the meds , my BP is normal.

Nah, it’s not the curly hair, mine’s straight and my normal BP is 80/58. — Ann

Response:

Effexor has helped many people with ADD+anxiety. I found it helpful until an unusual side effect stopped me from using it.

<snipped I’m curious as to what was the "unusual side effect" that caused you to stop taking Effexor? (I’m curious only because I too get an unusual [and annoying] side effect from my Effexor [which, btw, has been added to my Dexedrine, with positive results for my attention deficit]; a side effect that has me wishing there was something equivalent out there that could provide me with the same benefits as Effexor, but without this one distractingly uncomfortable side effect.) Sodah

Response:

I take Effexor for different reasons then you but I’m curious about the side effects you are taking about. I started to take Effexor because of depression due to the M.S.. The one thing I liked about the drug was the lack of side effects. So I’m real curious to find out about the side effects you have. They might be caused by the combo of the meds your currently on. Take care! — Annie

| Effexor has helped many people with ADD+anxiety. I found it helpful | until an unusual side effect stopped me from using it. | | <snipped | | I’m curious as to what was the "unusual side effect" that caused you to stop | taking Effexor? | | (I’m curious only because I too get an unusual [and annoying] side effect | from my Effexor [which, btw, has been added to my Dexedrine, with positive | results for my attention deficit]; a side effect that has me wishing there | was something equivalent out there that could provide me with the same | benefits as Effexor, but without this one distractingly uncomfortable side | effect.) | | Sodah | |

Response:

Effexor can cause elevated high blood pressure and possible sedation. These were the reasons I quit taking it two weeks ago, and went back to Prozac – for the additional pep, and also because I stated taking stronger stims which also elevate BP. Could either of these be the unusual side effect? John Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Self injure?? Like what, if I may ask? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I thought that I would post this and see if anyone else has noticed anything like this. In addition to having ADD, I have clinical depression and severe anxiety. I found that Adderall was like a miracle for my anxiety, because it took away so many of the racing thoughts and ruminations in my head. However, my most difficult time has always been at night. I used to have panic attacks so badly that I would hyperventilate and faint. Well, even though Adderall seems to be the best med. for this, I was told that I couldn’t take it at night, as it might interfere with the onset of sleep. So, my psychiatrist added Xanax for nighttime. Well, even though it seemed to help the anxiety, it actually kept me awake instead of putting me to sleep. It also made me severely depressed and apathetic, to the point where I began to self-injure; something that I hadn’t done for a long, long time. Needless to say, I went right off of it. Anyway, several weeks ago, my psychiatrist put me on the anti-depressant Effexor, saying that it would help with my ADD and anxiety, as well as the depression. Because it acts on norepinepherine as well as serotonin, it’s a good adjunct to stimulants in ADD/ADHD people. Anyways, it has been amazing! After only a week of taking Effexor XR 75mg/day(in the morning), my nighttime anxiety was nearly gone! I also noticed that I didn’t get nearly as irritable when my Adderall wore off in the evening. I used to hate the dropoff that I noticed with my stimulant, and now I can hardly detect it. It just feels like the Effexor has smoothed out my day. I don’t have the peaks and valleys that I had while I was just on Adderall. I am feeling a lot more even. I just thought I would see if anyone else has had an experience with Effexor and ADD. Ciao! -Emily

– Colette

Response:

Hi, I thought that I would post this and see if anyone else has noticed anything like this. In addition to having ADD, I have clinical depression and severe anxiety. I found that Adderall was like a miracle for my anxiety, because it took away so many of the racing thoughts and ruminations in my head. However, my most difficult time has always been at night. I used to have panic attacks so badly that I would hyperventilate and faint. Well, even though Adderall seems to be the best med. for this, I was told that I couldn’t take it at night, as it might interfere with the onset of sleep. So, my psychiatrist added Xanax for nighttime. Well, even though it seemed to help the anxiety, it actually kept me awake instead of putting me to sleep. It also made me severely depressed and apathetic, to the point where I began to self-injure; something that I hadn’t done for a long, long time. Needless to say, I went right off of it. Anyway, several weeks ago, my psychiatrist put me on the anti-depressant Effexor, saying that it would help with my ADD and anxiety, as well as the depression. Because it acts on norepinepherine as well as serotonin, it’s a good adjunct to stimulants in ADD/ADHD people. Anyways, it has been amazing! After only a week of taking Effexor XR 75mg/day(in the morning), my nighttime anxiety was nearly gone! I also noticed that I didn’t get nearly as irritable when my Adderall wore off in the evening. I used to hate the dropoff that I noticed with my stimulant, and now I can hardly detect it. It just feels like the Effexor has smoothed out my day. I don’t have the peaks and valleys that I had while I was just on Adderall. I am feeling a lot more even. I just thought I would see if anyone else has had an experience with Effexor and ADD. Ciao! -Emily

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Effexor Xr With
Tags: Effexor Xr With

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Eessential Tremor Effexor » Dystonia Vs. Myoclonus

Dystonia Vs. Myoclonus

Question:

Hi, From how I understand it, it is the degree of the movement and the length they last. Like with myoclonus, is fast quick jerky movememts. I know there is a site that describes each movement much better, but do not have that address. I know someone will add that info. (Thanks). Hope that helps alittle. Cathy

Response:

Thanks. Just trying to figure out just what it is exactly that I have, besides Essential Tremor. Trevor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, From how I understand it, it is the degree of the movement and the length they last. Like with myoclonus, is fast quick jerky movememts. I know there is a site that describes each movement much better, but do not have that address. I know someone will add that info. (Thanks). Hope that helps alittle. Cathy

Response:

Hi all. I’m new here. I’ve had Essential Tremor for 23 years (since I was 13) and now my doc has told me I have Myoclonus too. I’ve looked into that, and it seems to me that Myoclonus and dystonia are very similar. I don’t understand much medical terminology, so if anyone would be kind enough to explain the difference in plain English, I’d appreciate it. T

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Eessential Tremor Effexor
Tags: Eessential Tremor Effexor

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Discontinue Use Of Zoloft In Lewy Body Caus » Scott Weiser Related Discussions

Scott Weiser Related Discussions

Question:

ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN ACCESS DEBATE THREADS! Living in the UK, I frequently unsubscribe from rec.boats.paddle because there’s too much which isn’t relevant to the UK paddler. When I resubscribe (as I did last month), I’m always delighted when I find that Scott Weiser is still winding up paddlers, especially in the US. Best wishes

What a compliment. Many thanks…. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN ACCESS DEBATE THREADS!

Living in the UK, I frequently unsubscribe from rec.boats.paddle because there’s too much which isn’t relevant to the UK paddler. When I resubscribe (as I did last month), I’m always delighted when I find that Scott Weiser is still winding up paddlers, especially in the US. Best wishes Keith — |/| |_ |_) |_) / / canoeing instead of climbing when I | | |__ | | / __/ realised I could swim but not fly!"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s all well and good to say that you, one individual boater, does no identifiable harm, but this ignores the impacts of scale, and when a hundred, or a thousand, or ten thousand boaters use the area, the cumulative impacts become significant. Just look at the Grand Canyon. yes – and that’s why most public lands that incur use impacts are placed in management plans. These plans seek to find the right balance – though I’ll admit it can be arbitrary – especially when it comes to mulltiple-use determinations. It’s a delicate balance of the two, but remember that preserving to pass stewardship on does *not* necessarily mean passing it to the public who want to use the land for recreation. indeed. the ‘public’ is the government. All land public or private is regulation by Federal, State, and local laws that prevent land-owners from using their land when the impacts of such use affect the public. If you don’t believe this.. try something like a 1000 head feed-lot on your property… or placer mining… or eve condos… none of these will you do without a ‘permit’ and the government decides on behalf of the public if your proposal is ‘in the public interest’. Some folks of late consider these ‘takings’ but underlying ‘public interest’ concept is intact.

This is true, and I’ve never denied the validity of properly constructed land-use law, but *restricting* a property owner’s use to protect the health, welfare and safety of the public is substantially different from *appropriating* his property for the use of the public. But this is true ONLY IF the 100 cattle *do* damage the riverbank. Such impacts are not really comparative in nature. Negative impacts cause by paddlers are not "better", or "less negative" impacts simply because they are caused by a paddler instead of a cow, they stand on their own, and when those impacts are unnecessary to begin with, they are that much more improper. hmmm.. they *are* comparative in terms of impacts… whether it is recreation, farming, mining.. all of these distill down to impacts that can be quantified in terms of water quality, habitat destruction, etc.

Yes, but an unnecessary impact is an unnecessary impact, no matter how small it may be. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cattle may cause negative impacts, which can be mitigated by proper management practices, but cattle are *necessary* impacts in most cases, because they are what pay the taxes and create the profits that are used to continue to preserve the area. It’s all well and good to say "cattle-free in 2003" or whatever (though this mostly applies to federal lands) but the bills have to get paid somehow. I suppose when paddlers fork over the thousands of dollars a year to pay the taxes and maintain the property, then I’ll consider allowing them to trespass. Until then, their impacts, however slight, are *not necessary* to the preservation of the resource, and therefore they are justifiably banned. "can be mitigated by proper management practices" leaves it up to the landowner whoever that happens to be at a given time. this does not work when money is involved. Many landowners justify the destruction of the land they own for ‘economic benefits’. You are not unilaterally entitled to un-regulated economic activity just because you own the land. Your activity has to be compatible with the ‘public interest’ as there is hardly anything (economic) you can do on your property that won’t ultimately affect the public. There are thousands and thousands of local, state, federal laws that restrict you every which way from Sunday. You may consider recreation not necessary – the public may think otherwise – the same goes for what you think is ‘necessary’. If you public disagrees with you then you may be restricted.

Absolutely correct, but the fact that the government may regulate my activities in the public interest has no nexus to my ability to regulate YOUR activities on my land. As we have seen, even the government recognizes the impacts of recreationalists on public waters and has chosen to regulate them as well. I’m not sure what your point is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’am also amused by the ’scaring the wildlife’ argument – somewhat because there may be a ‘hint’ of truth for some species but how many species in the last few decades have been not only ’scared’ but just plain wiped-out because the habitat they lived on was used by the landowner for ‘other purposes’? Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. The fact that species and habitat may have been impacted by landowners is a broad generalization and an irrelevant comparison. In my case this is not the case, as is true in many other places, and you cannot claim that your impacts are legitimate merely because other impacts occur. Your impacts stand alone, on their own merits, and you are not excused by the bad behavior of others. Using your logic, you should be able to toss beer cans on the bank, leave rubbish around and cut down trees for firewood just because somebody else does so somewhere else. That’s fallacious logic at best. I follow the consistency argument and agree but behavior is governed by law whether it occurs on private or public property – though different laws may apply depending on the behavior – for instance some usually can be arrested for ’speeding on your property’ because the law does not apply to private property.

I don’t understand. You seem to be contradicting yourself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the ’scaring the wildlife’ arugment were true then most of the official ‘wild & scenic’ rivers in this nation – which are heavily travelled by recreation paddlers – would be completely devoid of wildlife. The reverse is true – once the land is dedicated by recreational use ONLY – the wildlife return and thrive.. and with the exception of certain ’shy’ species become confortable with humans – especially if they are not shooting them. It’s not the presence of the human itself that disturbs most animals – it is WHAT the human is doing and animals *know* that there is risk is hanging around. This is simply not true. No one said that the riparian zone would become ‘devoid’ of life, and while wildlife may become habituated to some degree, the stresses of human intrusion *remain* to negatively affect populations and vigor. And that wildlife you may see, which may be habituated, ignores those "shy" species, which are in the majority, which may indeed leave the area altogether, or may simply begin a gradual decline. Our federal lands are managed for *multiple* use with the recognition that humans *will* have impacts, and those impacts are balanced against the benefits which accrue to the public. Factually, from a political point of view, it would be highly desireable to simply forbid human access to *most* wilderness areas in order to preserve the habitat, but it’s politically impossible to do so, so we instead try to mitigate the impacts we do have. That’s why permit systems are cropping up on more and more rivers. The impacts of scale have become clear and limitations are required to preserve the resource. Indeed – with respect to ‘wilderness designation’, it’s not the paddlers or recreation folks or environmentalists that are fighting it.. it’s the folks that want to build roads and use motors. Impacts from recreation are easily mitigated.. you employ a permit system and if an area has eagle nests.. then you close it off entirely. The right fringe/landowner rights movement is trying to strike down all of these laws.. they want it all wide open … so that power boats, ski doos, etc can you AND the impacts ARE comparative. 100 canoes CAN and ARE compared to 100 ski-doos. One single four-wheel drive can severly damage a trail… and it has become recognized that hikers can do but it’ll take a 1000 of them… so you permit the use.. no 4-wheel and only 10 hikers per day.. etc etc

True, but largely irrelevant. You do prove my point however that mitigating and preventing impacts is a legitimate method of preserving the resource. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ‘difficulty’ is that if Colorado actually did what you suggest – that there would be a firestorm and the arugment would be over with very quickly. You would lose big time. Very significant tourism and the public’s perception of being ‘welcome’ are involved. No sane public official would even consider it.. that’ why they’re content to let it be the way it is. Public officials don’t make the decisions, wrong… if the public doesn’t like the court decision they’ll change the law. The ‘law’ is determined by the legislature which consists of publically-elected officials. the Courts do. No amount of feverish desire in pursuit of the almighty dollar can prevent me, or someone else from filing a suit in court claiming an improper taking of private property for public use without just compensation. That’s the purpose of the Constitution, to prevent the tyranny of the majority and the infringements of the rights of the individual by the public. yep…but even the constition can be ammended if the people want it.

True, and when you succeed in repealing the Fifth Amendment, get back to me. While you are technically correct, you must recognize that private property ownership and the prohibitions against the government exproprating property without compensation are one of the core beliefs of our nation, and it’s simply not credible that the vast majority of the public, *who are property owners*, will tear up the Constitution simply to suit a *small number* of boating recreationists who aren’t satisfied with the public … read more »

Response:

It’s all well and good to say that you, one individual boater, does no identifiable harm, but this ignores the impacts of scale, and when a hundred, or a thousand, or ten thousand boaters use the area, the cumulative impacts become significant. Just look at the Grand Canyon.

yes – and that’s why most public lands that incur use impacts are placed in management plans. These plans seek to find the right balance – though I’ll admit it can be arbitrary – especially when it comes to mulltiple-use determinations. It’s a delicate balance of the two, but remember that preserving to pass stewardship on does *not* necessarily mean passing it to the public who want to use the land for recreation.

indeed. the ‘public’ is the government. All land public or private is regulation by Federal, State, and local laws that prevent land-owners from using their land when the impacts of such use affect the public. If you don’t believe this.. try something like a 1000 head feed-lot on your property… or placer mining… or eve condos… none of these will you do without a ‘permit’ and the government decides on behalf of the public if your proposal is ‘in the public interest’. Some folks of late consider these ‘takings’ but underlying ‘public interest’ concept is intact. But this is true ONLY IF the 100 cattle *do* damage the riverbank. Such impacts are not really comparative in nature. Negative impacts cause by paddlers are not "better", or "less negative" impacts simply because they are caused by a paddler instead of a cow, they stand on their own, and when those impacts are unnecessary to begin with, they are that much more improper.

hmmm.. they *are* comparative in terms of impacts… whether it is recreation, farming, mining.. all of these distill down to impacts that can be quantified in terms of water quality, habitat destruction, etc. Cattle may cause negative impacts, which can be mitigated by proper management practices, but cattle are *necessary* impacts in most cases, because they are what pay the taxes and create the profits that are used to continue to preserve the area. It’s all well and good to say "cattle-free in 2003" or whatever (though this mostly applies to federal lands) but the bills have to get paid somehow. I suppose when paddlers fork over the thousands of dollars a year to pay the taxes and maintain the property, then I’ll consider allowing them to trespass. Until then, their impacts, however slight, are *not necessary* to the preservation of the resource, and therefore they are justifiably banned.

"can be mitigated by proper management practices" leaves it up to the landowner whoever that happens to be at a given time. this does not work when money is involved. Many landowners justify the destruction of the land they own for ‘economic benefits’. You are not unilaterally entitled to un-regulated economic activity just because you own the land. Your activity has to be compatible with the ‘public interest’ as there is hardly anything (economic) you can do on your property that won’t ultimately affect the public. There are thousands and thousands of local, state, federal laws that restrict you every which way from Sunday. You may consider recreation not necessary – the public may think otherwise – the same goes for what you think is ‘necessary’. If you public disagrees with you then you may be restricted. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’am also amused by the ’scaring the wildlife’ argument – somewhat because there may be a ‘hint’ of truth for some species but how many species in the last few decades have been not only ’scared’ but just plain wiped-out because the habitat they lived on was used by the landowner for ‘other purposes’? Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. The fact that species and habitat may have been impacted by landowners is a broad generalization and an irrelevant comparison. In my case this is not the case, as is true in many other places, and you cannot claim that your impacts are legitimate merely because other impacts occur. Your impacts stand alone, on their own merits, and you are not excused by the bad behavior of others. Using your logic, you should be able to toss beer cans on the bank, leave rubbish around and cut down trees for firewood just because somebody else does so somewhere else. That’s fallacious logic at best.

I follow the consistency argument and agree but behavior is governed by law whether it occurs on private or public property – though different laws may apply depending on the behavior – for instance some usually can be arrested for ’speeding on your property’ because the law does not apply to private property. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the ’scaring the wildlife’ arugment were true then most of the official ‘wild & scenic’ rivers in this nation – which are heavily travelled by recreation paddlers – would be completely devoid of wildlife. The reverse is true – once the land is dedicated by recreational use ONLY – the wildlife return and thrive.. and with the exception of certain ’shy’ species become confortable with humans – especially if they are not shooting them. It’s not the presence of the human itself that disturbs most animals – it is WHAT the human is doing and animals *know* that there is risk is hanging around. This is simply not true. No one said that the riparian zone would become ‘devoid’ of life, and while wildlife may become habituated to some degree, the stresses of human intrusion *remain* to negatively affect populations and vigor. And that wildlife you may see, which may be habituated, ignores those "shy" species, which are in the majority, which may indeed leave the area altogether, or may simply begin a gradual decline. Our federal lands are managed for *multiple* use with the recognition that humans *will* have impacts, and those impacts are balanced against the benefits which accrue to the public. Factually, from a political point of view, it would be highly desireable to simply forbid human access to *most* wilderness areas in order to preserve the habitat, but it’s politically impossible to do so, so we instead try to mitigate the impacts we do have. That’s why permit systems are cropping up on more and more rivers. The impacts of scale have become clear and limitations are required to preserve the resource.

Indeed – with respect to ‘wilderness designation’, it’s not the paddlers or recreation folks or environmentalists that are fighting it.. it’s the folks that want to build roads and use motors. Impacts from recreation are easily mitigated.. you employ a permit system and if an area has eagle nests.. then you close it off entirely. The right fringe/landowner rights movement is trying to strike down all of these laws.. they want it all wide open … so that power boats, ski doos, etc can you AND the impacts ARE comparative. 100 canoes CAN and ARE compared to 100 ski-doos. One single four-wheel drive can severly damage a trail… and it has become recognized that hikers can do but it’ll take a 1000 of them… so you permit the use.. no 4-wheel and only 10 hikers per day.. etc etc The ‘difficulty’ is that if Colorado actually did what you suggest – that there would be a firestorm and the arugment would be over with very quickly. You would lose big time. Very significant tourism and the public’s perception of being ‘welcome’ are involved. No sane public official would even consider it.. that’ why they’re content to let it be the way it is. Public officials don’t make the decisions,

wrong… if the public doesn’t like the court decision they’ll change the law. The ‘law’ is determined by the legislature which consists of publically-elected officials. the Courts do. No amount of feverish desire in pursuit of the almighty dollar can prevent me, or someone else from filing a suit in court claiming an improper taking of private property for public use without just compensation. That’s the purpose of the Constitution, to prevent the tyranny of the majority and the infringements of the rights of the individual by the public.

yep…but even the constition can be ammended if the people want it. If I were to do as I suggest, *something* would happen, either the trespassers would be arrested, or *I* would be arrested for "illegally" preventing them from trespassing, or they would file a suit, or I would. And as soon as the matter comes to court, the LAW rules, and I am quite confident in the strength of my legal case.

Like I said… if the law in Colorado was rigidly enforced along the lines that you suggest… and paddlers were kicked off of the major streams.. you could expect the law to change – regardless of how the courts feel. When you have a law like they have in Colorado and it’s not enforced.. there is a message in it. Federal Laws can force changes in Colorado law also – and do all the time. In the end… in a democracy… "rights" are decided by the people. You have no "right" to economic activity or even landowner rights if the public that votes disagrees with you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Correct, and the point is that *somebody* just might own such places, and you could lose the access in a heartbeat due to the malefactions of one or two individual paddlers. yep – actually this is more common that most folks either know or will admit. In Virginia – The Cowpasture River ( not great whitewater but a really beautify mountain river) is essentially off-limits. Others include Back Creek and the Jackson. Had a little old lady point a long-barreled 45 at our group on the Bullpasture. She wanted us off of "her damned land" NOW! People have been arrested in the past and many others are "warned" by local landowners before they even put in. Interestingly, we *used* to be able to get permission from the landowner group for a number of years and then suddenly we were refused. Not because we had done anything wrong – we ALWAYS sought permission and ALWAYS were polite – but because 1 landowner out of dozens didn’t want ANYBODY and didn’t care whether they were polite or respectful or anything else. End of story. All of years of carefully trying to not step on anyones toes went for naught. Um….I think this qualifies as a "broad generalization" of the type which Richard was objecting to when applied to paddlers, so I guess I have to object to it when applied to "landowners". After all, my purpose is not to develop or destroy the resource, it’s to protect it from the damage caused by public use. yep, i erred in the generalization. there is a link however. I don’t buy your ‘protection’ argument. I’ve paddled hundreds of rivers in 30 years of boating and damage, if any, is miniscule compared to cattle, 4 wheelers, local trash dumps, roadside dumps, fishermen – believe it of not!, logging, farming, and industry.

This may be true elsewhere, but the fact that others may cause more damage does not reduce the impacts which boaters cause, and since whatever those impacts are are unnecessary, it’s perfectly proper to prevent them. Actually, of late, many rivers have been saved from damage by pointing out that they are used significantly for recreation. also interesting is that once a River becomes officially protected and becomes a destination for paddlers – the localities reap economic benefit AND the river then becomes essentially off-limits to single-minded proposals that *would* damage it.

If economic benefits were the only criteria perhaps this would be valid. You do make a valid point that public awareness of the particular value of a particular river can be helpful in protecting the resource, but far too often the negative impacts of public access do more harm than good. It’s all well and good to say that you, one individual boater, does no identifiable harm, but this ignores the impacts of scale, and when a hundred, or a thousand, or ten thousand boaters use the area, the cumulative impacts become significant. Just look at the Grand Canyon. It’s a delicate balance of the two, but remember that preserving to pass stewardship on does *not* necessarily mean passing it to the public who want to use the land for recreation. I don’t think it is a ‘delicate balance’ at all. In most cases, it is fairly clear what the landowners intentions are.. you can see it in the way they take care of ( or not ) the land. Recreation does not harm the land on near the same scale as say cattle. A hundred cattle can totally ruin a river bank and turn a clean stream into a mess. A 100 paddlers – even if they all urinated in unison wouldn’t even come close.

But this is true ONLY IF the 100 cattle *do* damage the riverbank. Such impacts are not really comparative in nature. Negative impacts cause by paddlers are not "better", or "less negative" impacts simply because they are caused by a paddler instead of a cow, they stand on their own, and when those impacts are unnecessary to begin with, they are that much more improper. Cattle may cause negative impacts, which can be mitigated by proper management practices, but cattle are *necessary* impacts in most cases, because they are what pay the taxes and create the profits that are used to continue to preserve the area. It’s all well and good to say "cattle-free in 2003" or whatever (though this mostly applies to federal lands) but the bills have to get paid somehow. I suppose when paddlers fork over the thousands of dollars a year to pay the taxes and maintain the property, then I’ll consider allowing them to trespass. Until then, their impacts, however slight, are *not necessary* to the preservation of the resource, and therefore they are justifiably banned. I’am also amused by the ’scaring the wildlife’ argument – somewhat because there may be a ‘hint’ of truth for some species but how many species in the last few decades have been not only ’scared’ but just plain wiped-out because the habitat they lived on was used by the landowner for ‘other purposes’?

Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. The fact that species and habitat may have been impacted by landowners is a broad generalization and an irrelevant comparison. In my case this is not the case, as is true in many other places, and you cannot claim that your impacts are legitimate merely because other impacts occur. Your impacts stand alone, on their own merits, and you are not excused by the bad behavior of others. Using your logic, you should be able to toss beer cans on the bank, leave rubbish around and cut down trees for firewood just because somebody else does so somewhere else. That’s fallacious logic at best. If the ’scaring the wildlife’ arugment were true then most of the official ‘wild & scenic’ rivers in this nation – which are heavily travelled by recreation paddlers – would be completely devoid of wildlife. The reverse is true – once the land is dedicated by recreational use ONLY – the wildlife return and thrive.. and with the exception of certain ’shy’ species become confortable with humans – especially if they are not shooting them. It’s not the presence of the human itself that disturbs most animals – it is WHAT the human is doing and animals *know* that there is risk is hanging around.

This is simply not true. No one said that the riparian zone would become ‘devoid’ of life, and while wildlife may become habituated to some degree, the stresses of human intrusion *remain* to negatively affect populations and vigor. And that wildlife you may see, which may be habituated, ignores those "shy" species, which are in the majority, which may indeed leave the area altogether, or may simply begin a gradual decline. Our federal lands are managed for *multiple* use with the recognition that humans *will* have impacts, and those impacts are balanced against the benefits which accrue to the public. Factually, from a political point of view, it would be highly desireable to simply forbid human access to *most* wilderness areas in order to preserve the habitat, but it’s politically impossible to do so, so we instead try to mitigate the impacts we do have. That’s why permit systems are cropping up on more and more rivers. The impacts of scale have become clear and limitations are required to preserve the resource. Those impacts are just as present on Boulder Creek, though to a lesser degree. The difficulty is that many jurisdictions are relying upon the *** snip legal rambling **** Pity I don’t own such a parcel…..I could bring this thing to a head quite quickly…. The ‘difficulty’ is that if Colorado actually did what you suggest – that there would be a firestorm and the arugment would be over with very quickly. You would lose big time. Very significant tourism and the public’s perception of being ‘welcome’ are involved. No sane public official would even consider it.. that’ why they’re content to let it be the way it is.

Public officials don’t make the decisions, the Courts do. No amount of feverish desire in pursuit of the almighty dollar can prevent me, or someone else from filing a suit in court claiming an improper taking of private property for public use without just compensation. That’s the purpose of the Constitution, to prevent the tyranny of the majority and the infringements of the rights of the individual by the public. If I were to do as I suggest, *something* would happen, either the trespassers would be arrested, or *I* would be arrested for "illegally" preventing them from trespassing, or they would file a suit, or I would. And as soon as the matter comes to court, the LAW rules, and I am quite confident in the strength of my legal case. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

Correct, and the point is that *somebody* just might own such places, and you could lose the access in a heartbeat due to the malefactions of one or two individual paddlers.

yep – actually this is more common that most folks either know or will admit. In Virginia – The Cowpasture River ( not great whitewater but a really beautify mountain river) is essentially off-limits. Others include Back Creek and the Jackson. Had a little old lady point a long-barreled 45 at our group on the Bullpasture. She wanted us off of "her damned land" NOW! People have been arrested in the past and many others are "warned" by local landowners before they even put in. Interestingly, we *used* to be able to get permission from the landowner group for a number of years and then suddenly we were refused. Not because we had done anything wrong – we ALWAYS sought permission and ALWAYS were polite – but because 1 landowner out of dozens didn’t want ANYBODY and didn’t care whether they were polite or respectful or anything else. End of story. All of years of carefully trying to not step on anyones toes went for naught. Um….I think this qualifies as a "broad generalization" of the type which Richard was objecting to when applied to paddlers, so I guess I have to object to it when applied to "landowners". After all, my purpose is not to develop or destroy the resource, it’s to protect it from the damage caused by public use.

yep, i erred in the generalization. there is a link however. I don’t buy your ‘protection’ argument. I’ve paddled hundreds of rivers in 30 years of boating and damage, if any, is miniscule compared to cattle, 4 wheelers, local trash dumps, roadside dumps, fishermen – believe it of not!, logging, farming, and industry. Actually, of late, many rivers have been saved from damage by pointing out that they are used significantly for recreation. also interesting is that once a River becomes officially protected and becomes a destination for paddlers – the localities reap economic benefit AND the river then becomes essentially off-limits to single-minded proposals that *would* damage it. It’s a delicate balance of the two, but remember that preserving to pass stewardship on does *not* necessarily mean passing it to the public who want to use the land for recreation.

I don’t think it is a ‘delicate balance’ at all. In most cases, it is fairly clear what the landowners intentions are.. you can see it in the way they take care of ( or not ) the land. Recreation does not harm the land on near the same scale as say cattle. A hundred cattle can totally ruin a river bank and turn a clean stream into a mess. A 100 paddlers – even if they all urinated in unison wouldn’t even come close. I’am also amused by the ’scaring the wildlife’ argument – somewhat because there may be a ‘hint’ of truth for some species but how many species in the last few decades have been not only ’scared’ but just plain wiped-out because the habitat they lived on was used by the landowner for ‘other purposes’? If the ’scaring the wildlife’ arugment were true then most of the official ‘wild & scenic’ rivers in this nation – which are heavily travelled by recreation paddlers – would be completely devoid of wildlife. The reverse is true – once the land is dedicated by recreational use ONLY – the wildlife return and thrive.. and with the exception of certain ’shy’ species become confortable with humans – especially if they are not shooting them. It’s not the presence of the human itself that disturbs most animals – it is WHAT the human is doing and animals *know* that there is risk is hanging around. The difficulty is that many jurisdictions are relying upon the

*** snip legal rambling **** Pity I don’t own such a parcel…..I could bring this thing to a head quite quickly….

The ‘difficulty’ is that if Colorado actually did what you suggest – that there would be a firestorm and the arugment would be over with very quickly. You would lose big time. Very significant tourism and the public’s perception of being ‘welcome’ are involved. No sane public official would even consider it.. that’ why they’re content to let it be the way it is. Absolutely correct, and only by dialog between landowners and river users can such conflicts be peacefully and properly resolved with benefit to everyone.

I actually agree with the basic premise that no one is guanranteed access to private land because they are engaging in what they perceive as a ‘noble’ activity. Usually, it’s scumballs who cloak themselves with the ‘noble activity’ and then abuse the landowner. We’ve seen it with hunting and to some extent with boating. I’ve always subscribed to the idea that if someone owns the land that *I* need to *ask permission* and if they refuse – they refuse. It is their right. It burns my butt when 99 paddlers are polite and ask permission and then Mr asshole waltz’s in and screws it up for everybody. Folks from the ‘big’ cities are often the worst offenders. For some odd reason, I’ve never been able to understand they think they are ‘entitled’ to treaspass once in the rural landscape. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am willing to conceed to Scott that there is a valid interest in these dicussions on this newsgroup, but I do wish I could make the "NOT weiser" boolean search request work on my newsreader client. The problem I have with these posts is that Scott seems to be preoccupied with preaching legal findings and citing past relevant rulings to paddlers that are responding back with statements like "If I can paddle it, the river is navigable!" and "Just try to stop me!". Reading these threads is like sitting in a nicely furnished living room watching an acclaimed vet scold his dog by using the following phrase…"Sparky, the reason you should not urinate on the carpet is because the acidic nature of your fluid excrement has an adverse effect on both the optical appearance of this synthetic-based floor covering and also tends to react unpleasantly with the olfactory processes of myself and my house guests. Please, Sparky, give me a reason why I should not confine you to your pre-designated travel container." Whereas, the more intelligent vet, the person that learns through careful observation would say "Bad Dog, go to your box.", realizing that dogs do not make for good argument.

ROTFLMAO. What a hoot….I had not thought to compare kayakers to untrainable dogs. I sort of thought by presenting the evidence in (hopefully) a manner which the average adult could understand, that people would discover the logic involved themselves and make good decisions based upon that knowledge. I’ve had quite a bit of evidence that this is indeed the case. While you may tire of repetition (as I do), there is a constant stream of people who *don’t* understand and might like to who deserve to be informed of the controversy and the facts surrounding it so that they, too, can make informed decisions. My suggestion is that those who know the material and have made the decision, one way or the other, simply skip the threads altogether and allow those who *are* interested debate the matter with me in peace and quiet. Unfortunately, those who have seen the material cannot seem to control themselves and insist on insulting me and interrupting valid and interesting conversations among others. It’s a lot like a high-school student running into a class full of 8th graders and shouting "Hey, teach, shut the **ck up! I’ve heard all this before and you annoy me!" Why can’t those who don’t like the nature of the discussion simply switch off and go for a paddle and leave those who wish to discuss alone? I suspect it’s because such people are violently opposed to my particular argument and see it as dangerous, and decide to do whatever they can to disrupt the flow of information. It’s a lame attempt at censorship, nothing more, and I’ll tell you here and now it won’t work. I guess what I am trying to say here is that the best communicators are the ones that can tailor a response, argumentative or otherwise, to the intended audience. Make your point and make it clear. There is nothing wrong with being a highly intelligent, well versed, individual, but make no mistake…a highly- intelligent, well-versed idiot is still an idiot. Finally, Scott, if you feel the need to reply to this posting, I will assume that you deem me a colleague worth engaging with in meaningful debate. If your words truly express your feelings about me…

I think you have made a trenchant statement of fact, and I appreciate your candor. I hope that my reply is likewise informative. We agree more than we disagree, but I have a policy about "Shut the **ck UP!" threads, which is that I reply to them with whatever degree of politeness is called for until those posting to the thread….shut the **ck up. Then I return to the adult debates about access issues and the law with those who wish to discuss the issue. When nobody cares to discuss it anymore, then the thread dies and I retreat to my place under the bridge for a time, until some event stimulates me to begin again, for a new crop of paddlers who may be in need of enlightenment. (Your Previous Posting) <CLIP If you don’t like the course of the conversation, then toddle off and start one of your own instead of sniping at the adults who are having an interesting discussion. You sound like a three-year-old who’s whining and throwing a temper tantrum because Mommy is ignoring you. <CLIP …then why do you bother post a reply, I personally do not waste my time reasoning with someone that sounded like a spoiled three-year-old.

It’s not for *their* benefit, it’s for the benefit of others, and for my own amusement. If you do repond and I do not, please do not feel bad. Sometimes I go out and paddle instead of talking about it in this newsgroup.

Good plan. BTW- I apologize for the YELLING in my first post, it was uncalled for.

No problem, I’m a very forgiving kind of guy. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

Hey, hey. We should be counting our blessings. Suppose Mr. Weiser owned the put-in to the Ocoee or Chatooga?

Correct, and the point is that *somebody* just might own such places, and you could lose the access in a heartbeat due to the malefactions of one or two individual paddlers. Paddlers need to know about folks like him AND how he thinks. Mr. Weiser is representative of many ‘landowner rights’ advocates some of whom also belong to the ‘Wise Use’ groups. They usually not only want to keep paddlers off the rivers but they want to develop their land in any way they please even if it destroys natural resources.

Um….I think this qualifies as a "broad generalization" of the type which Richard was objecting to when applied to paddlers, so I guess I have to object to it when applied to "landowners". After all, my purpose is not to develop or destroy the resource, it’s to protect it from the damage caused by public use. Some folks think if they own land that it ‘ALL MINE’ and I can do with it what I want while others see themselves as temporary stewards responsible for passing the land on to others to also will practice stewardship.

It’s a delicate balance of the two, but remember that preserving to pass stewardship on does *not* necessarily mean passing it to the public who want to use the land for recreation. It is a significant movement and unless paddlers and others become involved and pay attention – you’ll see more and more rivers placed off-limits. I’m amazed that if Colorado Law is what Mr. Weiser sez it is that ANY rivers out there can be accessed legally. Something doesn’t fit. I wonder how popular rivers fare on the access issue in that state.

The difficulty is that many jurisdictions are relying upon the Attorney General’s opinion of the effects of changing the definition of "premises", including the state Department of Natural Resources, which leads to inconsistent enforcement of the law and a misunderstanding of the law itself. The issue is still unresolved because no case has been brought to overturn the AG’s opinion and confirm the Emmert Court’s decision. I hope it won’t come to that, because such a ruling would *shut down* public recreational use of most of the important recreational waters of the state, including the Number section of the Arkansas, which, while most of it is on BLM or Forest Service land, is criss-crossed by private "inholdings", any one of which could choose at any time to prohibit trespass and thereby destroy the ability to complete the float at all, since there’s no way to egress at the closed properties. This is why I propose a system which allows the state to, in this example, *condemn* a recreational easement if necessary to assure continued access to the entire run. But the essential part is that the state must *pay for* the access. After all, commercial whitewater recreation on the Arkansas is a multi-million dollar industry, which makes that easement quite valuable. I’ve suggested before the possibility that a landowner who owns a strip of land under the river somewhere in the middle of the popular section could simply take photos of every commercial raft which passes by in a season, identify the outfitter, count the number of heads and send them a bill at, say, $5.00 a head for a "trespass fee." I imagine this would get the attention of the recreational community rather quickly. Pity I don’t own such a parcel…..I could bring this thing to a head quite quickly…. The thread has been excellent raising awareness and I’ll bet more than a few now realize how important it is to contribute/join the AWA who works on behalf paddlers on access issues.

Absolutely correct, and only by dialog between landowners and river users can such conflicts be peacefully and properly resolved with benefit to everyone. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

Shut Up, Shut up, Shut Up!!! For the love of God people please stop this nonesense. Like everyone else I give a damn but I’m F%#$ing tired of seeing all these lame Wesier posts. Dear lord have mercy on our souls!! T.J.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, hey. We should be counting our blessings. Suppose Mr. Weiser owned the put-in to the Ocoee or Chatooga? Paddlers need to know about folks like him AND how he thinks. Mr. Weiser is representative of many ‘landowner rights’ advocates some of whom also belong to the ‘Wise Use’ groups. They usually not only want to keep paddlers off the rivers but they want to develop their land in any way they please even if it destroys natural resources. Some folks think if they own land that it ‘ALL MINE’ and I can do with it what I want while others see themselves as temporary stewards responsible for passing the land on to others to also will practice stewardship. It is a significant movement and unless paddlers and others become involved and pay attention – you’ll see more and more rivers placed off-limits. I’m amazed that if Colorado Law is what Mr. Weiser sez it is that ANY rivers out there can be accessed legally. Something doesn’t fit. I wonder how popular rivers fare on the access issue in that state. The thread has been excellent raising awareness and I’ll bet more than a few now realize how important it is to contribute/join the AWA who works on behalf paddlers on access issues.

I will go against the spirit of my original post and add a few more coals to the fire. Larry, you make a good point here. It is important that people reading this newsgroup realize the opinions of Scott and landowners like him. I do admit that I skimmed over the legal content of your posting pretty lightly, because I myself (speaking only for myself) do not give much consideration to written law while paddling. Not to say that I am a scofflaw, I just rely on simple common sense and judgement when leaving the city for a relaxing paddling trip. In my opinion, many access laws are on the books for liability reasons. There is a certain river here in the Southeast, that is officially banned from access. I have been told by local law enforcement officials that they do not particularly mind paddlers on the river, nor do they bother them if the right attitude is excercised by the group. The law was enacted to protect the state in the event of an unforseen accident. When I paddle, I paddle until told not to. If a local landowner expresses their concern in my paddling, I respect their wishes. If I should get arrested and am legally "in the wrong", I pay my fine and do not visit that particular area again. This approach has not failed me yet. Mutual respect goes quite a long way here in the Southeast. Maybe things are different in Colorado, I really do not know. I am not saying we should feel that we have the right to paddle anywhere. I am simply saying that 9 times out of ten, if you are not making a problem for anyone, people usually do not make problems for you. If Mr. Weiser’s family property on Boulder Creek contains a fence to control livestock, and by Colorado law they have a right to maintain that fence, then I would say paddling that section does impose a problem on someone, so it shold be avoided. It is quite possible that if there was no need for the fence, the Weisers may not care if their property is paddled across, who knows, it does not really matter. If I am paddling down a "legal" creek and a trout fisherman has inadvertantly snagged his line across the river, I wait, or help, or get out and walk around. I do not care who is or is not supposed to be there. (enough rambling, I will try to make my point here.) I am willing to conceed to Scott that there is a valid interest in these dicussions on this newsgroup, but I do wish I could make the "NOT weiser" boolean search request work on my newsreader client. The problem I have with these posts is that Scott seems to be preoccupied with preaching legal findings and citing past relevant rulings to paddlers that are responding back with statements like "If I can paddle it, the river is navigable!" and "Just try to stop me!". Reading these threads is like sitting in a nicely furnished living room watching an acclaimed vet scold his dog by using the following phrase…"Sparky, the reason you should not urinate on the carpet is because the acidic nature of your fluid excrement has an adverse effect on both the optical appearance of this synthetic-based floor covering and also tends to react unpleasantly with the olfactory processes of myself and my house guests. Please, Sparky, give me a reason why I should not confine you to your pre-designated travel container." Whereas, the more intelligent vet, the person that learns through careful observation would say "Bad Dog, go to your box.", realizing that dogs do not make for good argument. I guess what I am trying to say here is that the best communicators are the ones that can tailor a response, argumentative or otherwise, to the intended audience. Make your point and make it clear. There is nothing wrong with being a highly intelligent, well versed, individual, but make no mistake…a highly- intelligent, well-versed idiot is still an idiot. Finally, Scott, if you feel the need to reply to this posting, I will assume that you deem me a colleague worth engaging with in meaningful debate. If your words truly express your feelings about me… (Your Previous Posting) <CLIP If you don’t like the course of the conversation, then toddle off and start one of your own instead of sniping at the adults who are having an interesting discussion. You sound like a three-year-old who’s whining and throwing a temper tantrum because Mommy is ignoring you.

<CLIP …then why do you bother post a reply, I personally do not waste my time reasoning with someone that sounded like a spoiled three-year-old. If you do repond and I do not, please do not feel bad. Sometimes I go out and paddle instead of talking about it in this newsgroup. BTW- I apologize for the YELLING in my first post, it was uncalled for. SYOTR (well maybe 99.9% of you) -Craig

Response:

From, Mick "Better to be paddlin’ hard than hardly paddlin’ "

Response:

I think it’s kind of funny. Near the beginning of the great return of Weiser, everyone was more or less agreeing with him. Now he’s isolated himself against the NG again by posting more to this newsgroup on a few days than I have since I’ve started looking at it.

Of course, the slingers of insults who *start* the threads have *nothing* to do with it…..not… If only the "vocal minority" were able to leave well enough alone, then perhaps these pyrotechnic offshoots wouldn’t happen, but of course, unable to audit their conduct, they just *have* to get a dig in there. Well, poke me and I poke right back. You want it to stop, you stop it. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

Hey, hey. We should be counting our blessings. Suppose Mr. Weiser owned the put-in to the Ocoee or Chatooga? Paddlers need to know about folks like him AND how he thinks. Mr. Weiser is representative of many ‘landowner rights’ advocates some of whom also belong to the ‘Wise Use’ groups. They usually not only want to keep paddlers off the rivers but they want to develop their land in any way they please even if it destroys natural resources. Some folks think if they own land that it ‘ALL MINE’ and I can do with it what I want while others see themselves as temporary stewards responsible for passing the land on to others to also will practice stewardship. It is a significant movement and unless paddlers and others become involved and pay attention – you’ll see more and more rivers placed off-limits. I’m amazed that if Colorado Law is what Mr. Weiser sez it is that ANY rivers out there can be accessed legally. Something doesn’t fit. I wonder how popular rivers fare on the access issue in that state. The thread has been excellent raising awareness and I’ll bet more than a few now realize how important it is to contribute/join the AWA who works on behalf paddlers on access issues.

Response:

I apologize in advance, but there really is no diplomatic way to state this… ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN ACCESS DEBATE THREADS!

Thank you for that trenchant commentary. I am a kayaker. I view and post to this newsgroup in order to keep abreast of new happenings in the sport I love.

And access debates have nothing to do with your sport? Boy, are you deluded. And just what makes you think that anyone else is obliged to give a rodent’s fundamental orifice about why YOU choose to participate here or what YOU like or want? When I see three postings (or threads) involving a river access issue, I think "Good debate, there have been some valid issues presented here". When I see thirty posts, mostly by one individual, I think "These (expletive’in) people have nothing better to do with their time."

Well, I do rather enjoy jousting with the fine folks here…and the Netwits too. It’s my time to waste though, so what’s your beef? Remember, I only post in reply to a query or discussion from someone else who, axiomatically, *is* interested in the subject. Please, If you are absolutely hot-and-bothered to the point that you are treating this news group like your own personal chat-room, I understand…But keep it private, e-mail is really an ideal medium for this type of thing. Don’t clog this otherwise interesting group with twenty different post that are essentially the same in content.

Clog the group? Have you ever heard of a concept called the "delete" key? How about the "down arrow" key? Both of them will allow you to completely bypass any discussion which might cause consternation and confusion in your tiny mind. There’s and even better one….it’s called the "OFF" switch. Use it in good health, but USE it. If the posts are the same in content, it’s because others keep asking the same questions, and as long as they do, I’ll keep responding to them because it’s the polite thing to do. For the record, Yes, I do now know that Scott Weiser(sp?) is very familiar with private domain laws in Colorado and he would prefer that kayakers show a little more respect towards his family’s legal wishes. I also know that there are a lot of disrespectful boaters out there that believe once the water droplet leaves the cloud, it is there God-given right to use it at their convenience. Well folks, these are things I learned in the first few posts. I can see both sides of the argument, but really do not give a flying (expletive)!

And so you would impose your will on everyone else, some of whom might be interested, simply because you don’t have the wit to skip a thread. How very altruistic of you. If you have any other opinions that you think I am interested in past that point, know that I am not. If any of you involved in this thread think of any other gems that need to be discussed pertaining to this topic. Please, WRITE YOUR (EXPLETIVE’IN) CONGRESSMAN OR SHUT THE (EXPLETIVE) UP!

Let me see if I can put this delicately……No. If you don’t like the course of the conversation, then toddle off and start one of your own instead of sniping at the adults who are having an interesting discussion. You sound like a three-year-old who’s whining and throwing a temper tantrum because Mommy is ignoring you. Grow up and act like an adult. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I agree with just about everything Scott said in this post. Nobody forces you to read every article on the newsgroup. Just skip over the threads you don’t like. I know we’ve gone over this subject a zillion times, but apparently we keep getting new people in the group who are not aware of the differences in access laws from place to place. Some of these people want argue with Scott, but it really won’t do them any good–they can’t change the laws of the state of Colorado. They do, however, learn from the exchanges. And for every person who posts in the thread, there are at least ten who are reading it and learning from it. If paddlers improve their behaviour wrt access, then maybe some irate landowners who have the power to block access to put-ins or even to the entire river may decide that paddlers aren’t so bad. If these threads improve our collective behaviour enough that the closure of just one river is avoided, then it will be worthwhile.

Well said. I do take issue with one of Scott’s statements, though. Remember, I only post in reply to a query or discussion from someone else who, axiomatically, *is* interested in the subject. Scott, you were the first poster on this subject. So one out of the dozens of your posts was NOT a repy. (OK, I may be picking at straws there, but read on.) Also, just the other day, you replied to a post that was completely unrelated (i.e. had nothing to do with access), and did so in a manner that seemed (to me) aimed at starting another big thread. Hence, you do not ONLY post to reply to questions about access, although I would agree that the vast majority of your posts are valid replies. If you had said that you "usually" or "generally only reply… then I would have no argument with your statement.

Well, you’ve got me there. I admit to priming the pan from time to time, but you can hardly blame me when the flash occurs. It’s possible for everyone to simply ignore my flashy lures, but it’s also highly unlikely, as I have discovered, and so I take advantage of that phenomenon to stimulate debate, and this has been another interesting and lively debate, and, as you so succintly said, some people learned something new. Whether they like what they learned, or agree with it is unimportant, what’s important is that they have had their horizons expanded, which is *always* a good thing. Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** http://www.dimensional.com/~weiser/ Copyright 1998 by Scott Weiser Under the UCC, by the act of transmitting any commercial e-mail advertisment to this address, you are expressly contracting with me in my professional capacity for a consultation on the ad’s effectiveness and you expressly agree to pay to me the sum of $250.00 for each such consultation within 10 days of my report to the original sending address. You further expressly agree that all actions for recovery of fees owed shall be subject solely to the laws of the State of Colorado, which shall have sole jurisdiction.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I apologize in advance, but there really is no diplomatic way to state this… ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN ACCESS DEBATE THREADS! I am a kayaker. I view and post to this newsgroup in order to keep abreast of new happenings in the sport I love. When I see three postings (or threads) involving a river access issue, I think "Good debate, there have been some valid issues presented here". When I see thirty posts, mostly by one individual, I think "These (expletive’in) people have nothing better to do with their time." Please, If you are absolutely hot-and-bothered to the point that you are treating this news group like your own personal chat-room, I understand…But keep it private, e-mail is really an ideal medium for this type of thing. Don’t clog this otherwise interesting group with twenty different post that are essentially the same in content. For the record, Yes, I do now know that Scott Weiser(sp?) is very familiar with private domain laws in Colorado and he would prefer that kayakers show a little more respect towards his family’s legal wishes. I also know that there are a lot of disrespectful boaters out there that believe once the water droplet leaves the cloud, it is there God-given right to use it at their convenience. Well folks, these are things I learned in the first few posts. I can see both sides of the argument, but really do not give a flying (expletive)! If you have any other opinions that you think I am interested in past that point, know that I am not. If any of you involved in this thread think of any other gems that need to be discussed pertaining to this topic. Please, WRITE YOUR (EXPLETIVE’IN) CONGRESSMAN OR SHUT THE (EXPLETIVE) UP! By the way, if any of you would like to paddle this weekend, let me know Let me out of this concrete jungle, -Craig "no playboat yet" Geist

You better watch out buddy … you started a new possible deadly feud here … you better know that Mr. Weiser is a very fast typist, commands the English language like no other, is an expert of all laws of the king’s land, he is a sharp shooter (he is also a gunsmithlike expert) and a land "king size" owner. You are doomed my friend! Scotty will beam your tired sorry paddling ass up! PS: I really felt sorry for the incident and for the two idiots that went after Mr. Weiser’s mother but this is to much! Fred Fred Mechini Visit my homepage http://pluto.njcc.com/~fmec/Welcome.html A WEB PAGE DEDICATED TO OLYMPIC SPRINT KAYAK

Response:

You know, I agree with just about everything Scott said in this post. Nobody forces you to read every article on the newsgroup. Just skip over the threads you don’t like. I know we’ve gone over this subject a zillion times, but apparently we keep getting new people in the group who are not aware of the differences in access laws from place to place. Some of these people want argue with Scott, but it really won’t do them any good–they can’t change the laws of the state of Colorado. They do, however, learn from the exchanges. And for every person who posts in the thread, there are at least ten who are reading it and learning from it. If paddlers improve their behaviour wrt access, then maybe some irate landowners who have the power to block access to put-ins or even to the entire river may decide that paddlers aren’t so bad. If these threads improve our collective behaviour enough that the closure of just one river is avoided, then it will be worthwhile. I do take issue with one of Scott’s statements, though. Remember, I only post in reply to a query or discussion from someone else who, axiomatically, *is* interested in the subject.

Scott, you were the first poster on this subject. So one out of the dozens of your posts was NOT a repy. (OK, I may be picking at straws there, but read on.) Also, just the other day, you replied to a post that was completely unrelated (i.e. had nothing to do with access), and did so in a manner that seemed (to me) aimed at starting another big thread. Hence, you do not ONLY post to reply to questions about access, although I would agree that the vast majority of your posts are valid replies. If you had said that you "usually" or "generally only reply… then I would have no argument with your statement. -Paul

Response:

I apologize in advance, but there really is no diplomatic way to state this… ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN ACCESS DEBATE THREADS! I am a kayaker. I view and post to this newsgroup in order to keep abreast of new happenings in the sport I love. When I see three postings (or threads) involving a river access issue, I think "Good debate, there have been some valid issues presented here". When I see thirty posts, mostly by one individual, I think "These (expletive’in) people have nothing better to do with their time." Please, If you are absolutely hot-and-bothered to the point that you are treating this news group like your own personal chat-room, I understand…But keep it private, e-mail is really an ideal medium for this type of thing. Don’t clog this otherwise interesting group with twenty different post that are essentially the same in content. For the record, Yes, I do now know that Scott Weiser(sp?) is very familiar with private domain laws in Colorado and he would prefer that kayakers show a little more respect towards his family’s legal wishes. I also know that there are a lot of disrespectful boaters out there that believe once the water droplet leaves the cloud, it is there God-given right to use it at their convenience. Well folks, these are things I learned in the first few posts. I can see both sides of the argument, but really do not give a flying (expletive)! If you have any other opinions that you think I am interested in past that point, know that I am not. If any of you involved in this thread think of any other gems that need to be discussed pertaining to this topic. Please, WRITE YOUR (EXPLETIVE’IN) CONGRESSMAN OR SHUT THE (EXPLETIVE) UP! By the way, if any of you would like to paddle this weekend, let me know Let me out of this concrete jungle, -Craig "no playboat yet" Geist

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Discontinue Use Of Zoloft In Lewy Body Caus
Tags: Discontinue Use Of Zoloft In Lewy Body Caus

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Eessential Tremor Effexor » Debra Bode..NSTA News

Debra Bode..NSTA News

Question:

Wanted to let you know what Debra thought of the NSTA symposium. She sent this to me and I wanted to share it with all of you, since I posted her first call for help, on asd, asking if anyone else was going, since she was going alone. She enjoyed meeting Elf, Katie and Sondra. I thank all of you, too, for looking her up. Deb’s message: First of all, thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiry regarding who was attending. Since it was my first symposium and my spouse could not attend, it was a little intimidating going alone. However, as suggested through your e-mails, everyone was very kind and helpful. The symposium was great! If you have never been to one, I would highly recommend it – next year is in San Diego – also a great vacation spot! I found one of the major benefits in attending is sharing the stories, symptoms, concerns with other ST’rs and having someone finally relate to the same set of feelings. An extra special thanks and "hello" to three wonderful women found through the net, Romona (Elf) from Tennessee, Katie Stehr from Georgia, and Sondra from Ohio. I also found many members of the NSTA team to be great including Jan Richter, Patricia Murray, Carol Frank, David Stein, and Don Roblee. Time just flew and attendance was excellent making the sad part the inability to meet and spend time talking with everyone. Carol Frank, President of NSTA, shared that in 1980, there were 22 members of NSTA – today, there are over 3,000. I’m certain most of you now know about the Botox A shortage. Allergan is completely out of the product awaiting FDA approval hopefully by the end of November. You can reach a local sales rep for updates at 1-800-639-7914. After the "Taco Neck" syndrome, Jerry West of the L.A. Lakers has cut two public service announcements. It was also announced that Dixie Carter and Hal Holbrook will help to sponsor a Casino Night in L.A. next year. We are still looking for our "famous affected spokesperson". The educational piece of the session began with Dr. Paul Cullis and Dr. Christopher O’Brien discussing Botox. Most of you know that the body uses acetylcholine from the nerve transmission to the muscle causing it to contract. Botox stops the release of this action. There are three proteins that release acetylcholine and Botox A works on one protein (SNAP-25) while Botox B works on Synaptobrevin or VAMP. One good idea to help counter the antibody situation many have experienced, is to alternate Botox A and Botox B once it has been approved. It is estimated that the timeframe for Botox B approval is about 12 months. Another key point from O’Brien is that administration of Botox is an art form and the success on a patient is very technique dependent. This takes time and experience. There are 56 muscles in the neck and proper administration of Botox is not in any textbook. The stats from Cullis and O’Brien were an 80-85% good response rate for Botox for cervical dystonia. Although to some of us, it has seemed like a miracle, it is not. Botox typically responds in 1-10 days and peaks between 2-6 weeks. Average time between treatment is 3-4 months; Botox itself actually lasts 12 months but the brain makes new connections to new muscles causing the dystonia symptoms to reoccur. Botox has been used on some patients for 15 years still receiving good results. Dystonia does get worse with time and it does get harder to treat. Antibodies tend to develop faster in younger people, higher doses (300 units+) and more frequent use. Botox B is supposed to be a cleaner toxin. Although there is a lot of research going on in many areas for dystonia – genetics, surgeries etc., O’Brien felt Botox will probably be the dystonia treatment of choice for the next five years. The next presentation was by Deborah DeLeon M.S. on the study of genetics of dystonia. The first issue here is resources. It is only herself and one other person (now on maternity leave) doing the research so it is taking much longer. Genetics are showing that dystonia does carry on chromosomes but different ones for different family groups. There are 2-3 times as many women with cervical dystonia compared to men. It is showing up a lot in individuals with German backgrounds. Dr. Drake Duane spoke next on "Is ST an autoimmune disease? He has studied about 300 patients between 1987-1997. He has discovered the average age of onset is 43.5 yrs and the ratio is 65% female/35%male. About 90% of ST’rs get relief when laying down. One key point new to me was the number of patients that develop scoliosis. Physical therapy can be helpful here as arthritis sets into the neck and back. Dr. Duane reiterated that the ST brain does not degenerate, it simply has a quirk. It was never really answered if ST is an autoimmune disease, cause is still unknown. Dr. Mitchell Brin spoke next on Deep Brain Stimulation for ST. Surgical options are normally left for those that do not respond to medications or Botox. However, different surgical options are being investigated since there are still limited solutions. Deep brain stimulation is where electrodes are implanted into one of two areas of the brain and "wires" run down the inside of the neck to the chest with an implant of a pacemaker device. Videos were shown with Parkinson’s patients where they had virtually no control and when the electrical stimulation was supplied they could move almost normally. The FDA has approved this process for Parkinson’s and essential tremor. Dr. Brin will be trialing it on two dystonia patients in December. The next presentation was by Dr. Dennis Dykstra on Doxorubicin Chemomyectomy for the treatment of ST. Doxorubicin is an anti-cancer drug. It has been experimented on 18 blepharospasm patients with 9 patients "cured" for one year and 60% of those not receiving any other treatment. Doxorubicin actually destroys muscle cells which then fills in with connective tissue. Doxorubicin does not diffuse throughout the muscle like Botox and it can destroy other cells. It can injure your heart, liver and is toxic to the skin. It is irreversible. There are three ST patients trialing this right now. Since it is in such early stages, very conservative doses are being used and going after only one or two muscles at a time. Results have thus shown minor improvement. The benefits are it is much cheaper than Botox ($15 for 10 mg, using 60 mg doses) and it would be permanent. Overall opinion on this is possible potential but too early to tell. Next came the presentation from Paul Cullis on ITX (Immunotoxin). Dr. Cullis pointed out the limitations of Botox are: 1)Duration 3-4 mos. 2) Very expensive 3) certain % of non-responders 4) not specific to the exact area. The goal of ITX is to develop an immunotoxin for treatment of focal muscle spasms utilizing an immunoglobulin that attacks a problem in the body and a toxin with a type of "cruise Missile" that destroys the affected muscle on contact permanently. The toxin being used for this study is Ricin (plant based) and it zeroes in on just the affected muscle cells. Unfortunately, I had to make some calls for work at this point so I missed the majority of the denervation surgery presentation. After a long day filled with information we broke for socializing and sharing of more experiences. The next morning, we had two interesting gentlemen from England share an epidemiology study from the northeast of England and a new program where a Nurse Practitioner is providing Botox treatments in people’s homes. Out of about 766 patients, 566 have focal dystonia and of those 351 are cervical. They are doing extensive education in England on dystonia and show about 1 in every 10,450 people has cervical dystonia. The nurse practitioner program has been very successful as patients feel the nurse spends more time with them, really listens to where the pain is and frees the doctor up for more consultation time. They also expressed that ST is not only a physical movement disorder but it moves people socially and economically as well. In England, average onset was at 39.4 years and diagnosis at 47 years thus the push for education. From an employment standpoint for ST, 30.8% were available for work of which 13.5% were in full-time employment, 8.2% in part-time employment, 7.7% unemployed and 1.4% self-employed. However, an additional 25.6% were on long-term sick leave or retired early. Similar employment results were found in a study in Germany. The treatment of choice in England is Botox rather than drugs that also affect other areas of the body. Although they also stated that 25% of all patients are dopa responsive so they try Sinebid prior to Botox. From a social perspective, 59.8% of ST’rs had moderate anxiety or depression compared to 19.1% of the general population. 8.8% of ST’rs had severe anxiety or depression compared to 1% of the general population. 60.4% experienced pain or discomfort compared to 29% of the general population and 21.8% had severe pain compared to 3.8% of the general population. Social functioning for ST’rs was also 23.7 points below the general population. Next came Lee Dreyfus, former Governor of Wisconsin to discuss "Coping as a Family Member". His wife, Joyce, developed ST seven years ago after a fall at their cottage. Mr. Dreyfus was quite humorous and while I did not personally agree with everything he said or the comments he made about and to his wife, he had a few key points from my perspective. ST is not an individual affliction, it affects all family members. He felt the key to a successful marriage was a male vs. a shared leadership and that each partner’s #1 concern should be the other person. He encouraged ST’rs not to "use" the ST as an excuse and not to play wolf with "can’t" vs. "won’t". He said family members must … read more »

Response:

Thank You Tommye, I thought Deb did a superb job and posted this information, since she sent it to me. I have received mail from England asking for more info, which I forwarded to him, after I emailed to Deb to get it. Love Ya too, ….Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Anna and Deb!!! This is so very interesting-thank you so very much for posting it!! Love Ya, Tommye

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Eessential Tremor Effexor
Tags: Eessential Tremor Effexor

Prescription Medication Knowledge Base

Discuss the issues around popular medications

cold/asthma/anxiety

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Singulair and Appetite loss?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Singulair useful for COPD?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Gonna try CBT,ever do it?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

What migraine meds can be used with antidepressant meds?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Please help (in Australia and anxious)

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Effexor helps stimulant work better

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Dystonia Vs. Myoclonus

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response: