Question:

I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-)

Suggestion:  Pulmicort ™ (brand of budesonide) has been approved by the FDA for use in the United States, although it may not yet be commonly available.  It is quite a bit stronger than Aerobid ™ (brand of flunisolide).  You might try asking your doctor to try you on Pulmicort ™. I’ve been on it for over a year with zero problems. (However, I am adrenally insufficient, and had to have both hips replaced, because of long-term prednisone.  I am currently on hydrocortisone replacement therapy.  Your mileage may vary.)

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not

Since stopping with freon propelled inhilators I no longer get the shakes. Also, my asthma is much better to the point that I am convinced that the propellant was aggravating my asthma. I now use Bricanyl and Pulmicort both of which are from ASTRA pharma Inc . in Mississauga, Ontario. These are packaged in "turbuhalers" which are breath activated. That is, by breathing in the medication in powder form is picked up. I will never use inhilators with propellants again.

Response:

(JSterl7511) writes: I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the

Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds,

averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package

inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had

enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) Why does AeroBid list so many side effects [adverse events] in their package insert and the PDR? FACT:  AeroBid was approved by the FDA in 1984, just after the mandate from FDA that ALL adverse events, whether directly associated with the drug or not, be listed. Thus, Vanceril, Beclovent and Azmacort – all approved by FDA prior to the mandate, do not list such occurrences. Flovent (fluticasone), recently approved by FDA, also lists all adverse events in their package insert. Pulmicort (budesonide),  has been submitted to FDA and received an ‘approvable letter’ in June ‘96 but not yet approved, will also list all adverse events. Thus, AeroBid has no greater side effect risk than does Vanceril, Beclovent or Azmacort. The same can be said about Flovent and Pulmicort. A suggestion that may help to reduce or even eliminate systemic related effects of AeroBid (including taste) or any inhaled steroid is to try an AeroChamber. This is a holding chamber (spacer device) that has been shown to reduce the amount of drug that ends up in the mouth and throat by six fold, without impairing the small drug particle availability which actually navigates to the lower airways and provides the topical benefit of inhaled steroid (antiinflammatory) therapy. If you have been on a 2000 mcg (8 puffs daily) dose for 2 years without an asthma attack, try the AeroChamber before changing horses, so to say. Tim Wood

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do? Cut down the dosage or move onto another medication. I’d appreciate hearing from someone with similar experience. Thanks. John  Sterling

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do?

I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds, averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  "There seems to be no mainframe Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware,       in which we’re living." the opinions expressed herein                 — President Bill Clinton are not those of my employer.

Response:

Question:

Thanks for the comments. I really do think I have disagreed with your doc in any substantial way.

No dear, I think you meant to add a  "NOT" in there somewhere.  Let’s not feed any more arguments, if you know what I mean.  ;-) Vicky

Response:

I appreciate your reply. I like your replys as they are through and very understandable.

Response:

through

Sorry, should read thorough

Response:

Thanks for the comments. I really do think I have disagreed with your doc in any substantial way. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – without going deeper into this series, again, i respect *cbi* responses, but the bottom line for me in my case is that i am totally sold on my new pulm med dr and he is rated by other physicians in a study of 260,000 peers to be one of the top 100 drs in the usa, and at the top of his profession specialty here in houston, which is a major med center, as i understand it; i have seen probably about 30-40 physicians in this last two years and in my personal opinion, i can place about 3 or 4 drs in the highest regard while so many of the others were not helpful or committed to helping me dx and resolve a number of serious medical issues, one of which has been pulmonary symptoms in variety; in my mind, at this point, i cannot put opposing opinions in the area of my thinking and challenge this dr who i so deeply trust at this time; but, by the sounds of *cbi* and his (her?) diligence and serious, if i were in that city, i would hope to be a patient of *cbi* for my case; perhaps i do not understand how drs would discuss and disagree in some details, a particular case and how he/she would approach it; in the perfect world, i would appreciate having my dr AND someone such as *cbi* as a team in helping me to deal with copd/asthma, and living a more desirable and long and healthy life! thanks. some comments back, no disrespect intended… some snipping allowed… I’m not sure the issue is generic vs. brand. my pulm med dr specifically stated that in his experience, the generic albuterols are not as effective as brand names; is it not appropriate for me to listen to and trust in him?  i guess i do not understand one dr here stating disagreements with my dr who is so highly regarded in his field of pulmonary medicine in the usa, and he has seen me and my case personally. I do not necessarily disagree with him. My point is that he did not switch you from the generic to a brand name of the same product in any of the changes he made. In one case he switched form a generic to a combination product (albuterol to Combivent), in another he changed from one branded steroid to another (Azmacort to Flovent), and in the third he introduced a new medication (Singulair). Besides that, why would it be innappropriate for me to disagree with him on this point (generic vs. brand)? I’m not saying I do, but the general relative effectiveness of two products is not patient specific and so would be fair game for me to comment on desite not being familiar with your specific case. You are then free to determine how to weight the competing opinions you recieve. I suspect he thinks there is a component of both asthma and COPD as he would not have used the Singulair if your case was purely COPD (no effect for this). ????  i guess i do not understand these kinds of statements. Singulair, an anti-inflammatory medication used in asthma, is generally not given to people who are thought to have smoking related COPD. Steroids are generally considered a secondary treatment for COPD to be tried and then continued or discarded depending on the results observed in the individual. Atrovent, as stated in my original reply, is usually given to those with smoking related COPD and not asthma (unless severe). All of this leads me to believe that he either is not sure of why you wheeze, and is hedging his bets (probably intending to fine tune things once better control is achieved), or he thinks it is a combination of both asthma and COPD. The tight feeling may be from the increased airways resistance cannot relate to the "tight feeling", my symptoms are mostly sob, heaviness in upper body, suffocating feeling in lungs (feels like no matter how much i breathe, i am not "getting enough" o2); I’m not sure I understand the distinction you are making between "tight feeling" and "heaviness in the upper body" and "suffocating feeling." can you tell me something about your experience and medical background since i am new here and have not heard of you?  where are you located? thanks again! I did in the e-mail you sent. Before you buy.

Response:

without going deeper into this series, again, i respect *cbi* responses, but the bottom line for me in my case is that i am totally sold on my new pulm med dr and he is rated by other physicians in a study of 260,000 peers to be one of the top 100 drs in the usa, and at the top of his profession specialty here in houston, which is a major med center, as i understand it; i have seen probably about 30-40 physicians in this last two years and in my personal opinion, i can place about 3 or 4 drs in the highest regard while so many of the others were not helpful or committed to helping me dx and resolve a number of serious medical issues, one of which has been pulmonary symptoms in variety; in my mind, at this point, i cannot put opposing opinions in the area of my thinking and challenge this dr who i so deeply trust at this time; but, by the sounds of *cbi* and his (her?) diligence and serious, if i were in that city, i would hope to be a patient of *cbi* for my case; perhaps i do not understand how drs would discuss and disagree in some details, a particular case and how he/she would approach it; in the perfect world, i would appreciate having my dr AND someone such as *cbi* as a team in helping me to deal with copd/asthma, and living a more desirable and long and healthy life! thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some comments back, no disrespect intended… some snipping allowed… I’m not sure the issue is generic vs. brand. my pulm med dr specifically stated that in his experience, the generic albuterols are not as effective as brand names; is it not appropriate for me to listen to and trust in him?  i guess i do not understand one dr here stating disagreements with my dr who is so highly regarded in his field of pulmonary medicine in the usa, and he has seen me and my case personally. I do not necessarily disagree with him. My point is that he did not switch you from the generic to a brand name of the same product in any of the changes he made. In one case he switched form a generic to a combination product (albuterol to Combivent), in another he changed from one branded steroid to another (Azmacort to Flovent), and in the third he introduced a new medication (Singulair). Besides that, why would it be innappropriate for me to disagree with him on this point (generic vs. brand)? I’m not saying I do, but the general relative effectiveness of two products is not patient specific and so would be fair game for me to comment on desite not being familiar with your specific case. You are then free to determine how to weight the competing opinions you recieve. I suspect he thinks there is a component of both asthma and COPD as he would not have used the Singulair if your case was purely COPD (no effect for this). ????  i guess i do not understand these kinds of statements. Singulair, an anti-inflammatory medication used in asthma, is generally not given to people who are thought to have smoking related COPD. Steroids are generally considered a secondary treatment for COPD to be tried and then continued or discarded depending on the results observed in the individual. Atrovent, as stated in my original reply, is usually given to those with smoking related COPD and not asthma (unless severe). All of this leads me to believe that he either is not sure of why you wheeze, and is hedging his bets (probably intending to fine tune things once better control is achieved), or he thinks it is a combination of both asthma and COPD. The tight feeling may be from the increased airways resistance cannot relate to the "tight feeling", my symptoms are mostly sob, heaviness in upper body, suffocating feeling in lungs (feels like no matter how much i breathe, i am not "getting enough" o2); I’m not sure I understand the distinction you are making between "tight feeling" and "heaviness in the upper body" and "suffocating feeling." can you tell me something about your experience and medical background since i am new here and have not heard of you?  where are you located? thanks again! I did in the e-mail you sent.

Before you buy.

Response:

The O2 sat is an indirect measure of how much O2 is in the blood (pO2). It measure what percentage of hemoglobin O2 binding sites are full (O2 sat). The sites do not fill in a linear manner. The hemoglobin saturation curve is "S-shaped" meaning that it is flat on either end (high or low O2) and steep in the middle.

Here is one for the medical trivia buffs. The Pulse Oxymeter (or Oximeter in some places) is not considered to be accurate below 70%. Why not? — CBI, MD

Response:

some comments back, no disrespect intended… some snipping allowed… I’m not sure the issue is generic vs. brand.

my pulm med dr specifically stated that in his experience, the generic albuterols are not as effective as brand names; is it not appropriate for me to listen to and trust in him?  i guess i do not understand one dr here stating disagreements with my dr who is so highly regarded in his field of pulmonary medicine in the usa, and he has seen me and my case personally. I suspect he thinks there is a component of both asthma and COPD as he would not have used the Singulair if your case was purely COPD (no effect for this).

????  i guess i do not understand these kinds of statements. The tight feeling may be from the increased airways resistance

cannot relate to the "tight feeling", my symptoms are mostly sob, heaviness in upper body, suffocating feeling in lungs (feels like no matter how much i breathe, i am not "getting enough" o2); When you first start to hyperventilate during an attack do not understand or relate to this either;perhaps i do not understand the symptoms of hyperventilation, or "an attack", i an new to all of this; CBI, MD

can you tell me something about your experience and medical background since i am new here and have not heard of you?  where are you located? thanks again! Before you buy.

Response:

some comments back, no disrespect intended… some snipping allowed… I’m not sure the issue is generic vs. brand. my pulm med dr specifically stated that in his experience, the generic albuterols are not as effective as brand names; is it not appropriate for me to listen to and trust in him?  i guess i do not understand one dr here stating disagreements with my dr who is so highly regarded in his field of pulmonary medicine in the usa, and he has seen me and my case personally.

I do not necessarily disagree with him. My point is that he did not switch you from the generic to a brand name of the same product in any of the changes he made. In one case he switched form a generic to a combination product (albuterol to Combivent), in another he changed from one branded steroid to another (Azmacort to Flovent), and in the third he introduced a new medication (Singulair). Besides that, why would it be innappropriate for me to disagree with him on this point (generic vs. brand)? I’m not saying I do, but the general relative effectiveness of two products is not patient specific and so would be fair game for me to comment on desite not being familiar with your specific case. You are then free to determine how to weight the competing opinions you recieve. I suspect he thinks there is a component of both asthma and COPD as he would not have used the Singulair if your case was purely COPD (no effect for this). ????  i guess i do not understand these kinds of statements.

Singulair, an anti-inflammatory medication used in asthma, is generally not given to people who are thought to have smoking related COPD. Steroids are generally considered a secondary treatment for COPD to be tried and then continued or discarded depending on the results observed in the individual. Atrovent, as stated in my original reply, is usually given to those with smoking related COPD and not asthma (unless severe). All of this leads me to believe that he either is not sure of why you wheeze, and is hedging his bets (probably intending to fine tune things once better control is achieved), or he thinks it is a combination of both asthma and COPD. The tight feeling may be from the increased airways resistance cannot relate to the "tight feeling", my symptoms are mostly sob, heaviness in upper body, suffocating feeling in lungs (feels like no matter how much i breathe, i am not "getting enough" o2);

I’m not sure I understand the distinction you are making between "tight feeling" and "heaviness in the upper body" and "suffocating feeling." can you tell me something about your experience and medical background since i am new here and have not heard of you?  where are you located? thanks again!

I did in the e-mail you sent.

Response:

Looking for comments and suggestions from those experienced and professional folks out there, in here… Finally had my long awaited appt with Pulmonary Medicine Specialist, a fine Dr here in the Houston area (turns out he is rated at the highest level by his physician peers across the USA!). I was totally impressed with his professionalism and one thing that he said rang like "jingle bells" in my ears, the unsolicited " I am going to be able to help you with this!"  I could use more doctors with this attitude! Key points are that Dr immediately changed my meds from the generic albuterol and azmacort, saying that the generics are not as effective as others in his experience.  New meds are now: Combivent 4×2, Flovent 2×2, and Singular 1xd.  He wants to see me back in 4 weeks, saying it takes 2-3 weeks for effective response to treatment to begin. Also, Dr is wanting to redo my sleep study of Dec ‘99 that gave me a dx of OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) and see what is the current condition.  I quit using the auto cpap about 4 months ago when there did not seem to be any more results and my symptoms of OSA had seemed to disappear (no more snoring, no more stopping breathing observed, no more need to nap and sleep during the day, etc!) Can someone please explain to me how in the world that I can have an o2 sat of 98-99 and yet have the suffocating feeling in my chest and lungs?   I do not understand the workings of copd/asthma at all, I guess.  What  is the actual effects of bronchial spasms, the decreased volume of air? Also, this Dr is the second one that attached my current condition to the fact that I smoked cigs from about age 16 to 28!  I am now amazed at age 56 that *everyone* in the USA over age 18 does not have copd/asthma! What determines whether I have this dx, and not others who have smoked and perhaps still do?  If I have this dx some 30 years after I quit smoking, why did these symptoms only show up so obviously about two years ago? Thanks for any and all comments! Before you buy.

Response:

Key points are that Dr immediately changed my meds from the generic albuterol and azmacort, saying that the generics are not as effective as others in his experience.  New meds are now: Combivent 4×2, Flovent 2×2, and Singular 1xd.  He wants to see me back in 4 weeks, saying it takes 2-3 weeks for effective response to treatment to begin.

I’m not sure the issue is generic vs. brand. The Combivent is a combination of albuterol and ipatropium (Atrovent). COPD seems to affect the medium size airways more than asthma. Atrovent targets these airways more than the albuterol and so is the prefered drug. The added albuterol gives a slightly higher and longer lived response. Azmacort is a brand name. Flovent is a more potent steroid with less systemic absorption, hence fewer side effects. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too. Since only some people with COPD respond to steroids don’t be surprised if he eventually takes you off the steroids. I suspect he thinks there is a component of both asthma and COPD as he would not have used the Singulair if your case was purely COPD (no effect for this). Also, Dr is wanting to redo my sleep study of Dec ‘99 that gave me a dx of OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) and see what is the current condition.  I quit using the auto cpap about 4 months ago when there did not seem to be any more results and my symptoms of OSA had seemed to disappear (no more snoring, no more stopping breathing observed, no more need to nap and sleep during the day, etc!)

If the symptoms have changed it makes sense to repeat the study. Can someone please explain to me how in the world that I can have an o2 sat of 98-99 and yet have the suffocating feeling in my chest and lungs?   I do not understand the workings of copd/asthma at all, I guess.  What  is the actual effects of bronchial spasms, the decreased volume of air?

The tight feeling may be from the increased airways resistance with the bronchospasm. You are exchanging gasses well, just working harder to do it. The O2 sat is an indirect measure of how much O2 is in the blood (pO2). It measure what percentage of hemoglobin O2 binding sites are full (O2 sat). The sites do not fill in a linear manner. The hemoglobin saturation curve is "S-shaped" meaning that it is flat on either end (high or low O2) and steep in the middle. The steep part starts at about a sat of 90% wich correltated to a pO2 (oxygen content of the blood) of about 60. So your pO2 can fall from 100 to 60 with the sat only dropping from 98% to 90%. From there small changes in pO2 make big changes in sat. The point is that at the high end of O2’s (normal range) the pulse ox is not a sensitive test for changes in O2 content of the blood. One other thing puts a bit of a wrinkle in things. When you first start to hyperventilate during an attack the lowered CO2 and water vapor allows more room for O2 because all the gases must add up to 1 atmosphere of pressure. The attack usually has to be severe with a lot of mucus plugging and unused parts of the lungs before the O2 sat drops. Also, this Dr is the second one that attached my current condition to the fact that I smoked cigs from about age 16 to 28!  I am now amazed at age 56 that *everyone* in the USA over age 18 does not have copd/asthma! What determines whether I have this dx, and not others who have smoked and perhaps still do?  If I have this dx some 30 years after I quit smoking, why did these symptoms only show up so obviously about two years ago?

Only 15% of smokers will get COPD but 85% of those with COPD are smokers. There is a large genetic component (we think) to who will or will not get it. The lung damamge happens slowly over years and at an accelerated rate in smokers. Symptoms do not typically show up until age 40′2 to 50’s. It is quite possible that the smoking can cause symptoms to appear years after stopping. There are some changes on the chest x-ray that can be seen and some differences in the PFT’s that can suggest that the obstructive disease has more to do with smoking than asthma. As I said before, I suspect he thinks you have some of both. Whether this is all asthma, COPD, or a little of both the smoking certainly did not help the situation. — CBI, MD

Response:

Question:

Is there a root cause for anxiety and panic? How and why do we *REALLY* perceive danger? A simple answer please. Thank you

Response:

:Is there a root cause for anxiety and panic? I think there are many reasons why we develop an anxiety disorder…. not just one. I don`t think we should "focus" alot of our energies on the "why" but more on the "what can I do to get better". :How and why do we *REALLY* perceive danger? For me it is what I tell myself that makes something dangerous or threatening. Jackie ~*~Be Who You Are.. And Say What You Feel.. Because Those Who Mind Don’t Matter.. And Those That Matter Don’t Mind…~*~

Response:

For me the "root cause" is genetics.  My father’s side of the family most had some form of anxiety/depression.  As a result my daughter [26] has been on Zoloft for anxiety.  My son [24] has been on and off meds.  He should continue with the Zoloft but like many others he does not like the idea of admitting something is wrong. For me the "Why" is genetics.  I got it from my kids.  :-] Like Jackie said we need to focus on "What" rather than "Why".  If you do not admit there is a problem and try to help get it "fixed" there will never be a solution for it. I quit fighting with anxiety a long time back.  I use the meds that work for me and as a result I have had a very good quality of life.  Charlie Tuna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a root cause for anxiety and panic? How and why do we *REALLY* perceive danger? A simple answer please. Thank you

Response:

"sunray" wrote Is there a root cause for anxiety and panic? How and why do we *REALLY* perceive danger? A simple answer please. Thank you

Hi Sunray, there is no simple answer. Here is a link to a site I find useful. Below is an extract about the theories on what causes anxiety. http://www.panicattacks.com.au/about/anxdis/cause.html Excluding Post Traumatic Stress Disorder there are three main theories about the cause of anxiety disorders. These are 1~Biological 2~Behavioural 3~Psychodynamic 1.  The biological theory includes the genetic predisposition in panic disorder and presupposes a chemical imbalance in the brain. Biological theory: includes a genetic contribution for panic disorder 2.  The behavioural theory sees the cause as learned behaviour, including our negative thought patterns. There is no doubt we ‘learn’ to become afraid of our panic attacks…and we learn very very quickly! From this fear, the multitude of fears grow. Each feeding on each other and impacting severely on our lives 3.  The psychodynamic theory looks at childhood issues as being the cause. While not everyone with an anxiety disorder has a history of childhood abuse, many people do. And the childhood abuse issues do need to be taken into account. Childhood issues also play a role in people who don’t have a history of childhood abuse. As children we all learnt from a very early age that we needed to become, ‘a good nice person’. hope that’s simple enough Vanessa

Response:

For me the "root cause" is genetics.

I think so too. I think we have a "weak" genetic link that breaks when enough stress is applied, and will probably spend the rest of our lives learning how to cope with it. – K

Response:

That does not mean that our lives have to be ruined.  I am retired from 2 jobs [medical and governmental], my daughter is an engineer in Ft. Lauderdale, my son is a licensed electrician and doing well also.   He still has not fully come to terms with his "inherited" anxiety but he will.  Really I am surprised he has not electrocuted himself by now.  :-] I think that a lot of us are Type A  with a perfectionist/controlling personality.  In short, we are the people that contribute to progress but at a tremendous cost to ourselves.   It is learning to control the anxiety and have it work for you that is a big step forward.  Don’t fight it but use it to accomplish constuctuive things like education, excercise, outdoor activites etc. Sitting around dwelling on our anxieties just makes it worse.  I am on, Zoloft, Elavil and Xanax as needed and my life has been great.  I have "bumps" every now and then but nothing that I can not handle. As a result of my life of anxiety the best thing happened to me 9 years ago. A heart attack.  Because of that I woke up and faced the reality of what anxiety can do. Never thought too much about it before then.  I was just another hyper workaholic. Now I take one day at a time and enjoy the hell out of it.  If I have a PA I pop a Xanax and dare it to continue.  :-]  Charlie Tuna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For me the "root cause" is genetics. I think so too. I think we have a "weak" genetic link that breaks when enough stress is applied, and will probably spend the rest of our lives learning how to cope with it. – K

Response:

Question:

Has anyone heard of Zoloft withdrawal lasting longer than a couple of weeks? I was taking 200 to 250 mg Zoloft daily (increased during PMS) and then switched to Celexa. I was frustrated with neither of them helping my depression, so I unwisely abruptly discontinued the medication. My withdrawal symptoms ranged from moderate to severe…initially, I experienced extreme agitation, anxiety, crying, uncharacteristic rage, and formication (sensation that bugs were crawling on me). With the help of my doctor, I restarted a low dose of Celexa (I had been on 20 mg prior to this) and tapered off–but still quicker than I should have because I’m stubborn. The main problems that persisted for a couple of weeks were numbness and tingling in my arms and legs, and then spontaneous pain or muscle spasms in my legs. (Pretty darn painful). That and gastro-intestinal distress. My doctor felt that most of this was actually withdrawal from the Zoloft, not Celexa. She felt that the Celexa had prevented me from going into Zoloft withdrawal, but when I discontinued Celexa, the Zoloft withdrawal kicked in. From what I’ve read about other people’s experiences with Zoloft withdrawal, my symptoms do appear to match theirs. I had been taking Zoloft (at different doses) for about 4 years. I tried other medications during that time, but I was unable to tolerate most of them. I am very sensitive to medications and tend to have side effects with just about everything I take, usually to the point where I don’t want to take anything. Back to the symptoms–after 2-1/2 weeks, these symptoms diminished. 3-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation, however, I had a flare-up of gastro-intenstinal distress that lasted a day or two. Then, 4-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation (maybe 2 weeks since stopping the mild tapering-off) I experienced the leg pain, numbness, tingling along with severe stomach cramps and such. I did not expect to still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, so I’m confused. Am I imagining things? Is this something else? Thank you for any help you can provide.

Response:

Has anyone heard of Zoloft withdrawal lasting longer than a couple of weeks? I was taking 200 to 250 mg Zoloft daily (increased during PMS) and then switched to Celexa. I was frustrated with neither of them helping my depression, so I unwisely abruptly discontinued the medication. My withdrawal symptoms ranged from moderate to severe…initially, I experienced extreme agitation, anxiety, crying, uncharacteristic rage, and formication (sensation that bugs were crawling on me). With the help of my doctor, I restarted a low dose of Celexa (I had been on 20 mg prior to this) and tapered off–but still quicker than I should have because I’m stubborn. The main problems that persisted for a couple of weeks were numbness and tingling in my arms and legs, and then spontaneous pain or muscle spasms in my legs. (Pretty darn painful). That and gastro-intestinal distress. My doctor felt that most of this was actually withdrawal from the Zoloft, not Celexa. She felt that the Celexa had prevented me from going into Zoloft withdrawal, but when I discontinued Celexa, the Zoloft withdrawal kicked in. From what I’ve read about other people’s experiences with Zoloft withdrawal, my symptoms do appear to match theirs. I had been taking Zoloft (at different doses) for about 4 years. I tried other medications during that time, but I was unable to tolerate most of them. I am very sensitive to medications and tend to have side effects with just about everything I take, usually to the point where I don’t want to take anything. Back to the symptoms–after 2-1/2 weeks, these symptoms diminished. 3-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation, however, I had a flare-up of gastro-intenstinal distress that lasted a day or two. Then, 4-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation (maybe 2 weeks since stopping the mild tapering-off) I experienced the leg pain, numbness, tingling along with severe stomach cramps and such. I did not expect to still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, so I’m confused. Am I imagining things? Is this something else? Thank you for any help you can provide.

Response:

Question:

I need some help/advise. Heres my story. I am reposting it again to make sure everyone reads this. And maybe SOMEONE can help me. here goes… hello. I am a 23 yr old male, married, with 2 kids. I have come to the conclusion that i may be suffering from a major mental sickness, well, i know i am, but i just dont know which one. I have been put on anti depressents but they dont work. But, i have never told anyone of all my symptoms, and have never heard of anyone else having them and feel like i am all alone. I could really use some feedback. ass normal symptoms of depression, but you;’ll see some disturbing ones that are MORE than depresiion. 1.Wild mood swings, depression to almost on a high, can happen several times in a day. one minute i can feel like i am better than everyone, and next, i can feel that everyone is better than me. and i am shit. 2.Weight loss and gain. 3.moods go with weather, when it rains i feel more confident and happy, when its sunny, i feel like shit. this isnt always the case, but alot of the time 4. sometimes hyper, sometimes lazy 5. uncomfortable around people who i think are more attractive than me, or people my own age 6. fear that everyone is looking at me, and feer of embarassment, EXTREME fear of talking in front of more than a couple people. 7.Sometimes dont wanna leave the house and i dont know why… it’s like i wanna leave but cant. 8. get chest pains and think i am dying….. 9. dangerous and spontaneous behavior, like reckless driving, gambling 10. when i know i have to be still, i tremer uncontrolably… like when someone is watching me do something with my hands, they will go OUT of CONTROL. even when i am getting a haircut, if i know they are cutting like my baings or sides, and i KNOW my head has to stay still, it will jerk  really fast, and my neck muscles will tighten up, and then my head will like tremer. 11. sometimes very weird thoughts, and like someone is running me down inside my head. like calling me a fuck up and stuff like that. 12. sometimes i feel uncomfortable around my closest freinds, and dont know what to say… and have to leave. 13. cant do anything in front of anyone except close friends or family, like type, or even hold my hands steady, etc. 14. I find myself in these very weird moods where I feel like someone else 15. marijuana makes everything worse most the time. dont do it anymore. but once i was talking to myself out loud on it, and thought the devil was inside my head, and weird stuff like that. i was told it’s depression and social phobia, but i think it has to be more. have been put on, paxil, prozac, effexor, none work and gives me sexual side effects. Right now i am on nuerontin for my panic symptoms and a mood stabalizor, nuthing for depression because it doesnt work, and xanax for extreme panic, but i save my xanax for like haircuts, or first days on jobs. If i take like 3mg xanax(big dose) before my haircut, it’s not as bad, but it’s still there. Xanax has helped me the most so far, but i am becoming too dependent on it. I mean, who has to take xanax so there head dont shake for a haircut? Or say they can control their hands from shanking uncontollably when doing a job in front of someone. especially in that high of dose. a small dose has never worked for me. I feel helpless, and almost dead in a way. my family or freinds dont know about this, and has been gradually getting worse since the age of around 17 i beleieve. i would like to go back to school, but I would rather take a bullet to the head, than have to recite a speech in front of people. Xanax couldnt even help me there. I am so scared and confused. Its very hard for me to make friends too because of this. I am beggining to think that its some sort of manic symptoms, but dont know. have been to mental health sites, but cant find any kinda disease about the UNCONTOLLABLE shakes and tremers. I welcome all replies, and hope someone has been thru this and made it. Have had some thoughts of suicide, but would never do it, there no way cause of my kids, and i’d just be way to scared and the damage it would do to my family. someone please help me. have been to shrinks, but havent told them everything, probably wont. I just want honest replies and maybe someone knows whats wrng with me. Please help me, i pray to god every night for help, maybe i will find it here. Thanks! and also, and opinions on the meds i am currently taking? I will go now! PEACE!!!!!!!

Response:

I’d say you got manic bi-polar depression or just a case of bi-polar II, maybe some seasonal depression, Social aniexty/panic disorder…. not sure though but it seems you fall into that area.. I have the same symtoms like you said you got, except I was very shy and quiet, and didn’t have as bad of panic attacks.. I feel the same shit, just not as bad.. I take 0.5mg Xanax 3 times a day and 40mg Celexa once a day and I feel normal, like I never felt before… I been on Depakote 500mg twice a day for about 6 months then I stopped it because it made me lazy, and even after I stopped it, my manic side was still somewhat dead. That was about 8 months ago, and I still feel great now. I found nothing to kill my shyness, until I found Dextromethorphan  I wanted to get high on something, marijuana just made me act stupid and makes you think about your problems too much and you get all down from that..   So I read on the net, Robotussin Maximum Strenght Cough , one 4oz bottle only contains about Dextromethorphan HBr 355mg as the active ingredent.  My first time I chugged down the whole 4oz at once, within a hour I started to feel the effects of the DXM. It was nothing like marijuana, but it’s more up into the area with LSD, depends on the dose you take. After about 8 hours the high was almost gone, and I went to sleep.. The next 2 weeks after that, just being on my regular medication and not redosing the DXM, I felt like a new person. My shyness was almost totally gone, I could talk to people without mumbling and even keep a good convosation going without shyness or panic or worrying how I am acting.. I regularly use DXM now, just about twice a month, at a dose of about 600mg.. I have done all the way up to 1.1g to see the effects. It’s non addictive, maybe mildly "mentally" addictive for some. My point is here, I spent so much money on all different kinds of mental drugs for shyness, aniexty and depression, and all I needed was a bottle of Robitussin for $4.95.. Amazing stuff, it even cleared all the acne from my face. (19/male) Now I am about to start college soon, I am going for a good degree from a univeristy for Chemistry, and maybe into Bio-chem too.            -shroomy/Rob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need some help/advise. Heres my story. I am reposting it again to make sure everyone reads this. And maybe SOMEONE can help me. here goes… hello. I am a 23 yr old male, married, with 2 kids. I have come to the conclusion that i may be suffering from a major mental sickness, well, i know i am, but i just dont know which one. I have been put on anti depressents but they dont work. But, i have never told anyone of all my symptoms, and have never heard of anyone else having them and feel like i am all alone. I could really use some feedback. ass normal symptoms of depression, but you;’ll see some disturbing ones that are MORE than depresiion. 1.Wild mood swings, depression to almost on a high, can happen several times in a day. one minute i can feel like i am better than everyone, and next, i can feel that everyone is better than me. and i am shit. 2.Weight loss and gain. 3.moods go with weather, when it rains i feel more confident and happy, when its sunny, i feel like shit. this isnt always the case, but alot of the time 4. sometimes hyper, sometimes lazy 5. uncomfortable around people who i think are more attractive than me, or people my own age 6. fear that everyone is looking at me, and feer of embarassment, EXTREME fear of talking in front of more than a couple people. 7.Sometimes dont wanna leave the house and i dont know why… it’s like i wanna leave but cant. 8. get chest pains and think i am dying….. 9. dangerous and spontaneous behavior, like reckless driving, gambling 10. when i know i have to be still, i tremer uncontrolably… like when someone is watching me do something with my hands, they will go OUT of CONTROL. even when i am getting a haircut, if i know they are cutting like my baings or sides, and i KNOW my head has to stay still, it will jerk  really fast, and my neck muscles will tighten up, and then my head will like tremer. 11. sometimes very weird thoughts, and like someone is running me down inside my head. like calling me a fuck up and stuff like that. 12. sometimes i feel uncomfortable around my closest freinds, and dont know what to say… and have to leave. 13. cant do anything in front of anyone except close friends or family, like type, or even hold my hands steady, etc. 14. I find myself in these very weird moods where I feel like someone else 15. marijuana makes everything worse most the time. dont do it anymore. but once i was talking to myself out loud on it, and thought the devil was inside my head, and weird stuff like that. i was told it’s depression and social phobia, but i think it has to be more. have been put on, paxil, prozac, effexor, none work and gives me sexual side effects. Right now i am on nuerontin for my panic symptoms and a mood stabalizor, nuthing for depression because it doesnt work, and xanax for extreme panic, but i save my xanax for like haircuts, or first days on jobs. If i take like 3mg xanax(big dose) before my haircut, it’s not as bad, but it’s still there. Xanax has helped me the most so far, but i am becoming too dependent on it. I mean, who has to take xanax so there head dont shake for a haircut? Or say they can control their hands from shanking uncontollably when doing a job in front of someone. especially in that high of dose. a small dose has never worked for me. I feel helpless, and almost dead in a way. my family or freinds dont know about this, and has been gradually getting worse since the age of around 17 i beleieve. i would like to go back to school, but I would rather take a bullet to the head, than have to recite a speech in front of people. Xanax couldnt even help me there. I am so scared and confused. Its very hard for me to make friends too because of this. I am beggining to think that its some sort of manic symptoms, but dont know. have been to mental health sites, but cant find any kinda disease about the UNCONTOLLABLE shakes and tremers. I welcome all replies, and hope someone has been thru this and made it. Have had some thoughts of suicide, but would never do it, there no way cause of my kids, and i’d just be way to scared and the damage it would do to my family. someone please help me. have been to shrinks, but havent told them everything, probably wont. I just want honest replies and maybe someone knows whats wrng with me. Please help me, i pray to god every night for help, maybe i will find it here. Thanks! and also, and opinions on the meds i am currently taking? I will go now! PEACE!!!!!!!

Response:

Path: lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!newshu

b2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.ne.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.medication Lines: 98 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.22.162.6 X-Trace: news1.rdc1.ne.home.com 1002821635 24.22.162.6 (Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:33:55 PDT) I need some help/advise. Heres my story. I am reposting it again to make sure everyone reads this. And maybe SOMEONE can help me. here goes… hello. I am a 23 yr old male, married, with 2 kids. I have come to the conclusion that i may be suffering from a major mental sickness, well, i know i am, but i just dont know which one. I have been put on anti depressents but they dont work. But, i have never told anyone of all my symptoms, and have never heard of anyone else having them and feel like i am all alone. I could really use some feedback. ass normal symptoms of depression, but you;’ll see some disturbing ones that are MORE than depresiion. 1.Wild mood swings, depression to almost on a high, can happen several times in a day. one minute i can feel like i am better than everyone, and next, i can feel that everyone is better than me. and i am shit. 2.Weight loss and gain. 3.moods go with weather, when it rains i feel more confident and happy, when its sunny, i feel like shit. this isnt always the case, but alot of the time 4. sometimes hyper, sometimes lazy 5. uncomfortable around people who i think are more attractive than me, or people my own age 6. fear that everyone is looking at me, and feer of embarassment, EXTREME fear of talking in front of more than a couple people. 7.Sometimes dont wanna leave the house and i dont know why… it’s like i wanna leave but cant. 8. get chest pains and think i am dying….. 9. dangerous and spontaneous behavior, like reckless driving, gambling 10. when i know i have to be still, i tremer uncontrolably… like when someone is watching me do something with my hands, they will go OUT of CONTROL. even when i am getting a haircut, if i know they are cutting like my baings or sides, and i KNOW my head has to stay still, it will jerk  really fast, and my neck muscles will tighten up, and then my head will like tremer. 11. sometimes very weird thoughts, and like someone is running me down inside my head. like calling me a fuck up and stuff like that. 12. sometimes i feel uncomfortable around my closest freinds, and dont know what to say… and have to leave. 13. cant do anything in front of anyone except close friends or family, like type, or even hold my hands steady, etc. 14. I find myself in these very weird moods where I feel like someone else 15. marijuana makes everything worse most the time. dont do it anymore. but once i was talking to myself out loud on it, and thought the devil was inside my head, and weird stuff like that. i was told it’s depression and social phobia, but i think it has to be more. have been put on, paxil, prozac, effexor, none work and gives me sexual side effects. Right now i am on nuerontin for my panic symptoms and a mood stabalizor, nuthing for depression because it doesnt work, and xanax for extreme panic, but i save my xanax for like haircuts, or first days on jobs. If i take like 3mg xanax(big dose) before my haircut, it’s not as bad, but it’s still there. Xanax has helped me the most so far, but i am becoming too dependent on it. I mean, who has to take xanax so there head dont shake for a haircut? Or say they can control their hands from shanking uncontollably when doing a job in front of someone. especially in that high of dose. a small dose has never worked for me. I feel helpless, and almost dead in a way. my family or freinds dont know about this, and has been gradually getting worse since the age of around 17 i beleieve. i would like to go back to school, but I would rather take a bullet to the head, than have to recite a speech in front of people. Xanax couldnt even help me there. I am so scared and confused. Its very hard for me to make friends too because of this. I am beggining to think that its some sort of manic symptoms, but dont know. have been to mental health sites, but cant find any kinda disease about the UNCONTOLLABLE shakes and tremers. I welcome all replies, and hope someone has been thru this and made it. Have had some thoughts of suicide, but would never do it, there no way cause of my kids, and i’d just be way to scared and the damage it would do to my family. someone please help me. have been to shrinks, but havent told them everything, probably wont. I just want honest replies and maybe someone knows whats wrng with me. Please help me, i pray to god every night for help, maybe i will find it here. Thanks! and also, and opinions on the meds i am currently taking? I will go now! PEACE!!!!!!!

the fact you are on mood stablizers…and an AP   rather than neurontic…is indicative your doctors are way awead of you   perhaps they dx’d you as bipolar II or classic manic depression but didnt tell you or something? they do that if they dont think the patient can handle it…or if you have a good job, and insurance…that you might lose if dxd as bipolar…etc.. yes, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

    I’m piggybacking on this post because I never saw the original.  Have you ever described all of these symptoms to a doctor?  I don’t want to try to "diagnose" you but I will say that when a disorder goes undiagnosed for a long time a lot of complications can come out of it.  I had anxiety disorder and depression (still do, I guess) at age 16 and had probably had them since I was about 12.  What prompted me to get help was that the panic attacks started scaring me quite badly and I absolutely would not go out in public – at first I’d cross the street to avoid people looking at me, then I’d walk instead of taking the bus, then I stopped going to school because I was having panic attacks constantly.  Being 16 and never treated I had no idea what was wrong with me and I was sure I was just plain CRAZY.  I got help after refusing to leave my house for 2 months straight.     Anyway, all I’m trying to say is that I’m sure the symptoms are as horrible as you describe, but they probably don’t indicate any horrible dreadful untreatable disease, most likely the result of living with them for a time and paying a lot of attention to them.  Get yourself to a doctor and remember, antidepressants do take some time to work.  You shouldn’t have to take that much Xanax to stop shaking in public but if you get treatment and "start small" you might find that your anxiety eases up over time and eventually you’ll be able to handle those situations.  A word on the Xanax – it’s quite addictive and when you’re done with it you need to taper off slowly if you’ve been taking it on a regular (daily, every other day) basis or you’ll have the weirdest symptoms ever and you might not know what’s going on (and think you’re going crazy – just what you need, right?).     For what it’s worth, I still have the occasional, very occasional, panic attack but it’s been 14 years since I first started getting treatment for them and have learned to "manage" them.  I have trouble now comprehending how terrifying it used to be for me to sit on a bus on a "sideways" seat, you know where you look into the aisle at all the other people?  There are a lot of things I couldn’t do back then that I mostly just take for granted now. Get help, and be honest with your doctor about ALL the symptoms.    Best of luck to you,         Liz B

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d say you got manic bi-polar depression or just a case of bi-polar II, maybe some seasonal depression, Social aniexty/panic disorder…. not sure though but it seems you fall into that area.. I have the same symtoms like you said you got, except I was very shy and quiet, and didn’t have as bad of panic attacks.. I feel the same shit, just not as bad.. I take 0.5mg Xanax 3 times a day and 40mg Celexa once a day and I feel normal, like I never felt before… I been on Depakote 500mg twice a day for about 6 months then I stopped it because it made me lazy, and even after I stopped it, my manic side was still somewhat dead. That was about 8 months ago, and I still feel great now. I found nothing to kill my shyness, until I found Dextromethorphan  I wanted to get high on something, marijuana just made me act stupid and makes you think about your problems too much and you get all down from that.. So I read on the net, Robotussin Maximum Strenght Cough , one 4oz bottle only contains about Dextromethorphan HBr 355mg as the active ingredent.  My first time I chugged down the whole 4oz at once, within a hour I started to feel the effects of the DXM. It was nothing like marijuana, but it’s more up into the area with LSD, depends on the dose you take. After about 8 hours the high was almost gone, and I went to sleep.. The next 2 weeks after that, just being on my regular medication and not redosing the DXM, I felt like a new person. My shyness was almost totally gone, I could talk to people without mumbling and even keep a good convosation going without shyness or panic or worrying how I am acting.. I regularly use DXM now, just about twice a month, at a dose of about 600mg.. I have done all the way up to 1.1g to see the effects. It’s non addictive, maybe mildly "mentally" addictive for some. My point is here, I spent so much money on all different kinds of mental drugs for shyness, aniexty and depression, and all I needed was a bottle of Robitussin for $4.95.. Amazing stuff, it even cleared all the acne from my face. (19/male) Now I am about to start college soon, I am going for a good degree from a univeristy for Chemistry, and maybe into Bio-chem too.            -shroomy/Rob I need some help/advise. Heres my story. I am reposting it again to make sure everyone reads this. And maybe SOMEONE can help me. here goes… hello. I am a 23 yr old male, married, with 2 kids. I have come to the conclusion that i may be suffering from a major mental sickness, well, i know i am, but i just dont know which one. I have been put on anti depressents but they dont work. But, i have never told anyone of all my symptoms, and have never heard of anyone else having them and feel like i am all alone. I could really use some feedback. half ass normal symptoms of depression, but you;’ll see some disturbing ones that are MORE than depresiion. 1.Wild mood swings, depression to almost on a high, can happen several times in a day. one minute i can feel like i am better than everyone, and next, i can feel that everyone is better than me. and i am shit. 2.Weight loss and gain. 3.moods go with weather, when it rains i feel more confident and happy, when its sunny, i feel like shit. this isnt always the case, but alot of the time 4. sometimes hyper, sometimes lazy 5. uncomfortable around people who i think are more attractive than me, or people my own age 6. fear that everyone is looking at me, and feer of embarassment, EXTREME fear of talking in front of more than a couple people. 7.Sometimes dont wanna leave the house and i dont know why… it’s like i wanna leave but cant. 8. get chest pains and think i am dying….. 9. dangerous and spontaneous behavior, like reckless driving, gambling 10. when i know i have to be still, i tremer uncontrolably… like when someone is watching me do something with my hands, they will go OUT of CONTROL. even when i am getting a haircut, if i know they are cutting like my baings or sides, and i KNOW my head has to stay still, it will jerk  really fast, and my neck muscles will tighten up, and then my head will like tremer. 11. sometimes very weird thoughts, and like someone is running me down inside my head. like calling me a fuck up and stuff like that. 12. sometimes i feel uncomfortable around my closest freinds, and dont know what to say… and have to leave. 13. cant do anything in front of anyone except close friends or family, like type, or even hold my hands steady, etc. 14. I find myself in these very weird moods where I feel like someone else 15. marijuana makes everything worse most the time. dont do it anymore. but once i was talking to myself out loud on it, and thought the devil was inside my head, and weird stuff like that. i was told it’s depression and social phobia, but i think it has to be more. have been put on, paxil, prozac, effexor, none work and gives me sexual side effects. Right now i am on nuerontin for my panic symptoms and a mood stabalizor, nuthing for depression because it doesnt work, and xanax for extreme panic, but i save my xanax for like haircuts, or first days on jobs. If i take like 3mg xanax(big dose) before my haircut, it’s not as bad, but it’s still there. Xanax has helped me the most so far, but i am becoming too dependent on it. I mean, who has to take xanax so there head dont shake for a haircut? Or say they can control their hands from shanking uncontollably when doing a job in front of someone. especially in that high of dose. a small dose has never worked for me. I feel helpless, and almost dead in a way. my family or freinds dont know about this, and has been gradually getting worse since the age of around 17 i beleieve. i would like to go back to school, but I would rather take a bullet to the head, than have to recite a speech in front of people. Xanax couldnt even help me there. I am so scared and confused. Its very hard for me to make friends too because of this. I am beggining to think that its some sort of manic symptoms, but dont know. have been to mental health sites, but cant find any kinda disease about the UNCONTOLLABLE shakes and tremers. I welcome all replies, and hope someone has been thru this and made it. Have had some thoughts of suicide, but would never do it, there no way cause of my kids, and i’d just be way to scared and the damage it would do to my family. someone please help me. have been to shrinks, but havent told them everything, probably wont. I just want honest replies and maybe someone knows whats wrng with me. Please help me, i pray to god every night for help, maybe i will find it here. Thanks! and also, and opinions on the meds i am currently taking? I will go now! PEACE!!!!!!!

Response:

Question:

— Andy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Andy, I’ve seen three "shrinks" and all three give me something different to work with. Each one though fizzled out, couldn’t get much more after the first few visits. YMMV and IME Charla Hi Guy’s I’m starting to think that maybe I should find a new shrink. I pretty much have everything sorted out now, I can deal with the PA’s if I have to, and if I don’t have to, or don’t feel like sitting through one I go home….. to easy. I’ve got off the Xanax and Zoloft which was only making me worse and am now on Luvox and serapax, which works great. So everything is pretty cruzzy apart from the odd up and down. The problem I’m stuck with now I guess is best described as mild depression / mild constant background anxiety / mild emotional distress, no big problem, just slightly annoying. The thing is, I go to the Pdoc every week and go "this is how I feel and this is what’s going on ect" , but I don’t seem to be getting any new answers. Its always, take the meds, go to places for exposure and desensitisation of the PA’s, CBT, exercise, meditate and stop yourself as soon as you start getting in to any negative thought patterns. I feel like I talk, he listens, but doesn’t say much and what he does say I already know, and am doing it. Should I be getting more answers, and more response from him? or is that about all there is to it…. just keep going as I am and give things more time? The reason I’m asking is because I don’t want to spend more time and money building a repour with new Pdoc’s if the answers are going to be the same. Thanks. — Andy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its always, take the meds, go to places for exposure and desensitisation of the PA’s, CBT, exercise, meditate and stop yourself as soon as you start getting in to any negative thought patterns. I feel like I talk, he listens, but doesn’t say much and what he does say I already know, and am doing it. Should I be getting more answers, and more response from him? or is that about all there is to it…. just keep going as I am and give things more time? The reason I’m asking is because I don’t want to spend more time and money building a repour with new Pdoc’s if the answers are going to be the same. Thanks. — Andy

dump him therapy is a collaborative event that is involving and goal oriented-listening is not productive to getting things done-the goal is to learn coping techniques and various ways to recover. LM

Response:

     Dear Andy,            In my experience  it has always been the same. I went to this one shrink. 12 visits and each time it was the same. I listened to him describe HIS phobias. I’d love to splash his name all over the place, but i won’t. What did help me was group therapy. Have you tried this? If not you may want to check it out Debbie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guy’s I’m starting to think that maybe I should find a new shrink. I pretty much have everything sorted out now, I can deal with the PA’s if I have to, and if I don’t have to, or don’t feel like sitting through one I go home….. to easy. I’ve got off the Xanax and Zoloft which was only making me worse and am now on Luvox and serapax, which works great. So everything is pretty cruzzy apart from the odd up and down. The problem I’m stuck with now I guess is best described as mild depression / mild constant background anxiety / mild emotional distress, no big problem, just slightly annoying. The thing is, I go to the Pdoc every week and go "this is how I feel and this is what’s going on ect" , but I don’t seem to be getting any new answers. Its always, take the meds, go to places for exposure and desensitisation of the PA’s, CBT, exercise, meditate and stop yourself as soon as you start getting in to any negative thought patterns. I feel like I talk, he listens, but doesn’t say much and what he does say I already know, and am doing it. Should I be getting more answers, and more response from him? or is that about all there is to it…. just keep going as I am and give things more time? The reason I’m asking is because I don’t want to spend more time and money building a repour with new Pdoc’s if the answers are going to be the same. Thanks. — Andy

I agree with his referral to CBT. It seems just what you need now. I am glad that you

Question:

i am 30 years of age and two years ago-suffered a major panic attact and then depression-PAXIL has been a life saver-the first dose was bad for me, but then it was ok i think you should give it a try-but take it faithfully-just recently i skipped a few doses and the attacks and depression are back-i saw my doctor last week and she gave me a presc. to take with my paxil -10grams of celex-i haven’t tried yet-as panic suffers are against medication-i think i am fixing to try it-good luck let me know how it turns out

Response:

i am 30 years of age and two years ago-suffered a major panic attact and then depression-PAXIL has been a life saver-the first dose was bad for me, but then it was ok i think you should give it a try-but take it faithfully-just recently i skipped a few doses and the attacks and depression are back-i saw my doctor last week and she gave me a presc. to take with my paxil -10grams of celex-i haven’t tried yet-as panic suffers are against medication-i think i am fixing to try it-good luck let me know how it turns out

Do you mean *Celexa?* In that case I would be interested to know why your doctor prescribes two SRI’s for you. Not that I think it’s wrong, just interested. Philip

Response:

Dolores, I’m so sorry for your loss.  Thanksgiving was melancholy for me because my mom is in a nursing home after having a stroke 3 weeks ago.  I know it’s not the same as losing someone to death, but she’s not the same person anymore so in that sense I’m grieving the loss of the beautiful mother I knew.  Christmas won’t be much better I’m afraid. I’m on Paxil and I can highly recommend it, if you’re not bothered by the sexual side effects.  I’m not married so it’s no big deal for me. I’m not sure if Zoloft is the same way.  Anyway, Paxil got me through some very rough times over the past few weeks (with a little help from xanax) so I can recommend it from personal experience. If you go with Paxil, I would start ASAP because by the time the holidays hit it should have kicked in for you.  Start slowly at about 10 mg. and increase after 10 days or so.  All with your doctor’s guidance, of course. Best of luck and let us know how you’re doing. Sharon

Response:

i TRIED PAXIL FOR 2 MONTHS AND I WAS A ZOMBIE ALL THE TIME, I FELL ASLEEP DRIVING TWICE, NOW I AM ON MY 3RD MONTH OF ZOLOFT AND DOING GREAT!  GOOD LUCK

Response:

I knew the holidays were going to be rough this year (widowed 4/98) and I also felt that the .5 mg of Klonopin wasn’t going to carry me though  the next month. I was right. I’ve been weepy for the last two weeks, and the panic and anxiety are starting up again, which I have been free of since August! So you see, I need to do something. I’m so sick of this and wish I could propel myself into the future just to be normal again. Tomorrow I’m going to make an appt. to get my meds changed. I think I need the SSRI as my doc kept drilling into me, but Prozac didn’t work well for me. So what has been your experiences with Paxil or Zoloft? I have a friend who said Paxil gave him diahrea -don’t want that! Would a Zoloft/Klonopin mix work? Does that sound reasonable?

Maybe you only have to raise the Klonopin dose from .5 mgs to the average therapeutic dose which is around 3 mgs. If that doesn’t work after, say, two weeks, it might be a good idea to add an AD. Zoloft and Klonopin make a good combination if you’re not troubles by Zoloft side effects such as sexual dysfunction. Philip

Response:

Try the Paxil.  You need to really give it a chance, though.  It can take up to three weeks to notice any results.  The thing with medications such as Paxil, people think they will feel ‘happy’, or their problems will go away.  This is not true.  It will put you in a mindset to deal with your problems like ‘normal’ people.  Normal meaning: someone with regular amounts of serratonnin in their brain.  Good luck. S

Response:

I knew the holidays were going to be rough this year (widowed 4/98)

Dolores, I am so sorry for the death of your husband….. death is never easy to deal with when it comes to someone you love, but, the holidays can just stink, because of it. I lost my step mom (who truly *was* my mother, in the highest sense of the word) four years ago, this month. Then my sister, two years ago, this month, and last year, my grandmother. Novembers just BLOW, AFAIC. I think I know some of what you’re feeling, and I am feeling right along with you. Taking an antidepressant is a good starting place. When life is this tough, you sometimes need a biological correction to get you to a point where you can help yourself heal. (healthy diet, exercise, socializing, hobbies, etc.) It can really make the difference between being so stuck that you can’t find a way out, and feeling confident enough to work on taking care of yourself. There is also the phenomena associated with extended grief, which I am very familiar with — it can promote anxiety, panic attacks, clinical depression and obsessive thinking. Physically, it can prompt a first diagnosis of fibromyalgia in a person who is prone to it, and it can also compromise your immune system. Any of the a/d’s are probably as good as any others to start with, as there is no "blood test" they can do to target what biochemicals are unbalanced. You’ve already tried Prozac, so that probably isn’t an option, right now. There are many very effective ones out there, but, none of them are correct for everyone. Celexa seems to be the most promising as far as limited side effects. Maybe you could suggest that one to your doctor. He’s probably been bombarded with samples from the pharmaceutical rep, anyway. I’ve tried about eight or ten different ones, over the last two years, and haven’t yet found the one that works best for me. All have seemed to have their complications, even though I start each trial with every hope that this time, I’ve got the *right* one. <G But, this seems to be a lot more to do with the other disorders and dysfunctions that I have than it has to do with effects on the Panic Disorder. You’ll have to try them until you find the one that suits you. Most people hit on the right one within just a few tries, I would bet. (Just from what I’ve read on ASAP and mailing lists. So, you should feel confident that there is help on the way. If you go with Paxil, you will need to start with "micro" doses – very small doses, to avoid triggering anxiety and some of the side effects (Which vary tremendously from person to person!) If you take Paxil for more than about two months (I think that’s right?) you will also have to discontinue it slowly. Zoloft is another good choice — it works wonders for many people. As do Serzone, Effexor, and some of the older tricyclics. AFAIK, all of the antidepressants can be used at the same time as the benzodiazepines, such as Klonopin. But, just a thought — Klonopin is known to induce depression in some anxiety patients, while xanax has an anti-depressant effect all by itself, in others. I am not sure that only .5mg/day of Klonopin would be enough to induce dysphoria or depression, but, if you are susceptible to that particular effect, it can’t be doing the depression much good. At the same time, I am not sure that only .5mg/day of Klonopin is enough to keep the anxiety under control, but, maybe someone else can jump in here. It might be trial and error, but, OTOH, it just might be "trial and win!" in your case. Very best of luck to you!! Elizabeth

Response:

I knew the holidays were going to be rough this year (widowed 4/98) and I also felt that the .5 mg of Klonopin wasn’t going to carry me though  the next month. I was right. I’ve been weepy for the last two weeks, and the panic and anxiety are starting up again, which I have been free of since August! So you see, I need to do something. I’m so sick of this and wish I could propel myself into the future just to be normal again. Tomorrow I’m going to make an appt. to get my meds changed. I think I need the SSRI as my doc kept drilling into me, but Prozac didn’t work well for me. So what has been your experiences with Paxil or Zoloft? I have a friend who said Paxil gave him diahrea -don’t want that! Would a Zoloft/Klonopin mix work? Does that sound reasonable?

Response:

Question:

I’ve been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Trazodone.  The Trazodone is nice in that it helps me sleep at night(that is mainly what I use it for.  The Zoloft did not work for me, either.  The only thing I recall working is the Prozac.  I am back on it as of today.  I will see how it works this time.  :-)

Response:

I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.

Aha… so I’m not the only one… hehe… Liah who is sleeping way too much

Response:

Of all the SSRI type meds, I liked  Paxil the best. Im kinda aggressive (not violent) and it takes the edge off better than zac or loft. Kinda costs more tho….. Good luck 2u, Kev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

trina, different ADs work differently in different people, i was on zoloft but had no success, same thing with prozac, effexor, and now i’m trying aropax again. Because they have different effects on different people it makes it difficult to try to recommend any other AD’s, all i can rwally say is keep trying until you find something you feel works for you. Good Luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

Response:

i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

Response:

Question:

Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

Response:

Zoloft is an SSRI type anti-depresant.  Xanax is a Benzo.  Difference is Xanax is fast acting, and wears off quickly.  Zoloft is more preventitive (in other words you can not take it per needed basis, you must take it everyday).  It takes several weeks to see full benefit, and the results for everyone may vary.  I will not even begin to go into the side effects, but if you want more info on that you can do a search at deja news for zoloft. I would suggest trying the Zoloft in conjunction with the Xanax if you want to.  What you may find over time that you can ween off of the xanax, or use it per needed basis.  What you are going to find is ssri’s work for some, but not for all.  YMMV, and IMO. Good Luck. d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

Response:

Philippa lomax schreef: Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?  I’m on Xanax, and I wonder if Zoloft would be better?  I take Xanax just for when I need it. Pip

Xanax is a benzodiazepine (a so-called minor tranquillizer). Its anxiolyutic effects are undisputed. It can be taken *as needed* por as a maintenance med. Also a combo with another, longer-acting benzo like Klonopin works well for many people and Xanax can also be combined with an antidepressant of whatever type and often is. Benzo’s have mainly some drowsiness in the beginning as side effect.Zoloft is a SSRI-type antidepressant. These antidepressants work for anxiety/panic as well, as PAD and depression are sort of cousins, chemically. Unlike benzo’s which have immediate effect, with the SSRI’s (which block the reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin so that you have enough of it at the right time at the right place, to be very simplistic about it) you need to give them between 3-8 weeks to be able to evaluate their effects. In the first few weeks your symptoms may worsen as your body adjust to the med. Therefore it is necessary to start at a real low dose and slowly raise it to therapeutic level which is a personal matter of trial and error. Often a benzo is added in these first weeks and this combo can also be taken long-term. A very unpleasant side effect of most SSRI’s with most people is sexual dysfunction. If I were you (but I’m not and I’m also not a doctor) I would try and see if raising my Xanax dose and taking it as a maintenance med (taking 4-5 times a day, say, .5 mgs = 2.5 mgs in total while average therapeutic dosage is 2-5 mgs) won’t do the trick for me. If it wouldn’t I would start to think about a combo. I feel that it is important to start out with just one med (so that you know for sure that the results are from that particular med) and to give it a full trial. YMMV etc. Philip

Response:

Can someone tell me if Xanax and Zoloft are different, or are they just different meds for different people?

Dear Pip,   I don’t know the medical terms for the meds, but I do know that they are two different drugs.   I take Zoloft everyday and it has helped restore my pre-panic disorder disposition. (Which was pretty nice.)   I only take the Xanax when I push to travel (still have some problems with distance from home, but is much better. I now can go 20 miles from home.) Anyway, the Xanax just takes the edge off.   If you have an opportunity to try Zoloft, go for it. It really does help.   All the best.                            Sharon

Response:

Dear Sharon, I am interested to know how much Zoloft and Xanax you take each day.My MD has suggested  I take 100mg a day of Zoloft, along with 0.5mg of Xanax 4 – 5 times a day for panic attacks and anxiety.  I would appreciate any feedback from you.  Thanks for your help.

Response:

Question:

Please help with any advice that you may have. 5 years ago I was diagnosed with depression. Have taken Prozac, Effexor and now Serzone. I have a gut feeling that I have been misdiagnosed and actually suffer from PD or a combination of the two. Although I am much better now, I feel that I still suffer from PA’s from time to time ranging from mild to severe. I don’t trust my Psychiatrist and am really fed up with only being part of the whole person I know I can be. Has anyone out there been in the same situation and if so, what did you do? Hopeful, Gary P.S. E-mail responses preferred.

Response:

: : I don’t trust my Psychiatrist and am really fed up with only being part of : the whole person I know I can be. Has anyone out there been in the same : situation and if so, what did you do? Hi Gary, Sounds like this would be a good time to consult another psychiatrist. Pick up the phone and call your local major metropolitan hospitals to ask if they have an anxiety clinic or psychiatric staff familiar with anxiety and panic disorders. Make an appointment and get another opinion on your case. Feel free to post the group or e-mail me for further info or support.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

Response:

I don’t trust my Psychiatrist and am really fed up with only being part of the whole person I know I can be. Has anyone out there been in the same situation and if so, what did you do?

Hello Gary I would think it’s a second opinion that you’re looking for. If all else fails you could treat yourself. It will mean a great deal of reading, research and being honest with yourself but it is (IMHO) a common misconception that expert guidance is necessary in all cases. Have faith in yourself and your own judgement, even if it’s let you down in the past. If you seek further professional treatment try to play a more active role – take charge. Hopeful,

Stay that way, hope is all that you need. Best of luck — ROB…  "high mileage but reliable!"

Response: