Question:

My experience is that, despite the oft insurer referenced literature saying that post people can step down to H2 blockers, very few of my patients successfully make the transition.

I was put on Biaxin-Prisolic and Pepto Bismal for a thirty day treatment to cure my H-Pylori and reduce my acid reflux with success. I was and am still on 800mg daily of Tagamet daily which so far has kept me under control.

Response:

Can I ask a sort of follow up question? I have asthma and reflux problems treated by prilosec. The question I have is "What is the long term effects of taking prilosec for a long time ( at least a year with no end in sight)?"

When Prilosec first came out there was a concern that long term administration may lead to B12 deficiency and possibly gastric cancer. Fortunately, after 20 or so years of use this seems to not be the case. It appears to be safe for long term use. — CBI, MD

Response:

My experience is that, despite the oft insurer referenced literature saying that post people can step down to H2 blockers, very few of my patients successfully make the transition. I was put on Biaxin-Prisolic and Pepto Bismal for a thirty day treatment to cure my H-Pylori and reduce my acid reflux with success. I was and am still on 800mg daily of Tagamet daily which so far has kept me under control.

Treating H. pylori in duodenal and many peptic ulcers seems to be beneficial. It is questionable whether it is worthwhile in gastritis. The current thinking is that treating it makes reflux worse as often as better. The theory is that the chronic inflammation of the stomach may cause lower acid secretion, thus helping the reflux. Unfortunately, it also slightly increases the risk of gastric cancer. I’m glad you got better. I would guess that either the stomach inflammation was causing as much of your symptoms as the GERD, that the acid blockade alone helped the reflux, or that you are one of the lucky ones who’s reflux was actually helped and not worsened by eradicating the H. pylori. — CBI, MD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since we’ve recently moved, I had to get a new PCP.  Yesterday he told me  that since I’d been taking Prilosec for three months, my reflux should be cured  and there would be no need to continue taking it.  The doctor did, BTW, also  add Singular to try to improve the control of my asthma. I’m wondering if it’s typical for others to only have to take Prilosec for three months No. There is some literature that the pharmacy plans love to quote when telling the docs to try to lower the intensity of acid suppression by switching to the cheaper H2 blockers like Zantac, Tagamet, or Pepcid after 8 weeks on a proton pump inhibitor (Prilosec). I have not heard anyone advocate just stopping the meds altogether. Even the insurers who pay for the meds do not suggest this. My experience is that, despite the oft insurer referenced literature saying that post people can step down to H2 blockers, very few of my patients successfully make the transition. or if stopping it is likely to cause me more problems with asthma than I have now. Yes. Should I get another opinion? You could either try it and go back and say "I told you so" if and when the symptoms worsen or you can get a second opinion. A third option would be to ask if you can just step down to a med like Zantac instead and then stop it if you continue to do well. I would be a little concerned that your new doc seems to be getting his continuing medical education from the drug rep and insurer literature and then getting it wrong at that.

Can I ask a sort of follow up question? I have asthma and reflux problems treated by prilosec. The question I have is "What is the long term effects of taking prilosec for a long time ( at least a year with no end in sight)?" J. Freedman,Jr

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed with asthma about a year ago, though I’ve likely had it for several years at least.  After a couple of pretty severe asthma attacks, I was put on Albuterol inhaler and Flovent.  I did pretty well for a few months, but started having increased problems in the past three months with constant wheezing, especially at night, requiring almost daily night-time use of my rescue inhaler. During that time, I was diagnosed via upper endoscopy as having reflux. Apparently I’ve actually had it for a long time because there was a lot of scarring at the junction between the esophagus and stomach.  I was put on Prilosec which did not only help the epigastric pain I’d been having, but seemed to help the shortness of breath I’d been having at night (though it hasn’t made it completely go away either). Since we’ve recently moved, I had to get a new PCP.  Yesterday he told me that since I’d been taking Prilosec for three months, my reflux should be cured and there would be no need to continue taking it.  The doctor did, BTW, also add Singular to try to improve the control of my asthma. I’m wondering if it’s typical for others to only have to take Prilosec for three months or if stopping it is likely to cause me more problems with asthma than I have now. Should I get another opinion? Sandra

I’ve been using prilosec for about three years now.  This year my insurance company (a colorful one) informed me that they would only allow me three months of prilosec and a non-sedating antihistamine.  The prilosec worked wonderfully, even a late-night pizza caused no discomfort.  However, my reflux hasn’t been cured.  This last winter, being out of work for four weeks after foot surgery, I discovered that my reflux had disappeared, I even ate a late-night pizza to test it and had no problems.  About four days before going back to work the reflux reappeared!  My conclusion was that it was stress related.  I’m also taking singulair and I believe it has been helpful also.  Although I’ve been getting allergy shots for three years now and feel they have helped as well.  It’s hard to put my finger on the exact cause for the reduction of my asthma.  I’ve weaned myself down to two puffs of serevent at night, the singulair, allergy shots and only rarely a puff or two of albuterol.  I have been trying to wean myself off of the prilosec, taking it only every second or third night.  I notice a bit of reflux but can control that fairly well with only an antacid.

Response:

I was diagnosed with asthma about a year ago, though I’ve likely had it for several years at least.  After a couple of pretty severe asthma attacks, I was put on Albuterol inhaler and Flovent.  I did pretty well for a few months, but started having increased problems in the past three months with constant wheezing, especially at night, requiring almost daily night-time use of my rescue inhaler.   During that time, I was diagnosed via upper endoscopy as having reflux. Apparently I’ve actually had it for a long time because there was a lot of scarring at the junction between the esophagus and stomach.  I was put on Prilosec which did not only help the epigastric pain I’d been having, but seemed to help the shortness of breath I’d been having at night (though it hasn’t made it completely go away either).   Since we’ve recently moved, I had to get a new PCP.  Yesterday he told me that since I’d been taking Prilosec for three months, my reflux should be cured and there would be no need to continue taking it.  The doctor did, BTW, also add Singular to try to improve the control of my asthma. I’m wondering if it’s typical for others to only have to take Prilosec for three months or if stopping it is likely to cause me more problems with asthma than I have now. Should I get another opinion? Sandra

Response:

Since we’ve recently moved, I had to get a new PCP.  Yesterday he told me that since I’d been taking Prilosec for three months, my reflux should be cured and there would be no need to continue taking it.  The doctor did, BTW, also add Singular to try to improve the control of my asthma. I’m wondering if it’s typical for others to only have to take Prilosec for three months

No. There is some literature that the pharmacy plans love to quote when telling the docs to try to lower the intensity of acid suppression by switching to the cheaper H2 blockers like Zantac, Tagamet, or Pepcid after 8 weeks on a proton pump inhibitor (Prilosec). I have not heard anyone advocate just stopping the meds altogether. Even the insurers who pay for the meds do not suggest this. My experience is that, despite the oft insurer referenced literature saying that post people can step down to H2 blockers, very few of my patients successfully make the transition. or if stopping it is likely to cause me more problems with asthma than I have now.

Yes. Should I get another opinion?

You could either try it and go back and say "I told you so" if and when the symptoms worsen or you can get a second opinion. A third option would be to ask if you can just step down to a med like Zantac instead and then stop it if you continue to do well. I would be a little concerned that your new doc seems to be getting his continuing medical education from the drug rep and insurer literature and then getting it wrong at that. — CBI, MD

Response:

Question:

Yes, but being a ‘learned scholar’ in one particular area does not mean that your ADVICE will help everyone…which ends up giving out misinformation to patients who are suffering. So instead of expounding on what your career ‘used to be’ and college degree, just try and be compassionate to share what works for you…. it may NOT work for others. The mouthwash DOES NOT do a thing for my thrush….good old mycostatin, and meds does it for me…. I  was a Med/Tech writer editor for 20yrs. but in Radiation Oncology, does that mean I can give advice on curing cancerous lymphomas? I also went to the garage several times, does that make me a mechanic?    LOL Just trying to lighten the mood. thanks

Response:

try using mouth wash( the kind that kills bacteria).  take a swig and hold it in your mouth for as long as you can then spit it out.  this will be a little uncomfortable but it helps

Response:

Dear Carrie,  I had the same problem with the pulmocort and I think you are right about the delivery system.  I rinsed my mouth out faithfully after each use and still had thrush.  I would go off the pulmicort and get the thrush cleared up and go back on it, the thrush would be back within a week.  I finally changed to flovent with the airchamber and have not had any problems.  Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use a MDI and aerochamber and I rinse my mouth out with water after using my Flovent inhaler.  Ever since I started doing that, I haven’t gotten thrush since.  I don’t know if you have been doing the same, but it has helped me. Carrie I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse.

This information is correct. Antifungal therapy, spacers, mouth rinsing/gargling with water-(try warm water not cold- could solubilize it better), weeker steroid inhalers (I was switched from flovent to  azmacort even though i hohum about it for many reasons)..these are ways to avoid/get rid of thrush. Chilla (the Candida biologist turned science writer)

Response:

I know this information is correct. I’m a microbiologist as well;-)

BTW, hansen’t a gene been identified that produces a susceptibility to yeast infections?  I wonder if (assuming an easy and inexpensive test were available) we could identify if any particular person was more likely to develop thrush? "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I know this information is correct. I’m a microbiologist as well;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse. This information is correct. Antifungal therapy, spacers, mouth rinsing/gargling with water-(try warm water not cold- could solubilize it better), weeker steroid inhalers (I was switched from flovent to  azmacort even though i hohum about it for many reasons)..these are ways to avoid/get rid of thrush. Chilla (the Candida biologist turned science writer)

Response:

Yes, the mouthwash helped me a bit, temporarily,,,but didnt relieve the horrible pain, peeling, and tenderness of MY thrush; so always end up telling my doc to call in a prescription of "Nystatin" (mycostatin) oral rinse….swish and swallow, boy, does it do the trick for me in two days!!! Just thought this may help those that dont get relef from the home remedies. thanks.

Response:

I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

As far as I know, Pulmicort does not come as a MDI, which is why I’m resisting agains my Doc switching me over to it. I believe that Flovent is just as good, but you would have to ask a doc about that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I use a MDI and aerochamber and I rinse my mouth out with water after using my Flovent inhaler.  Ever since I started doing that, I haven’t gotten thrush since.  I don’t know if you have been doing the same, but it has helped me. Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse. For what it’s worth I very rarely have trouble with thrush, despite being permanently on oral steroids as well as very high dose inhaled and when I do get it eating natural yoghurt helps heaps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – try using mouth wash( the kind that kills bacteria).  take a swig and hold it in your mouth for as long as you can then spit it out.  this will be a little uncomfortable but it helps

Response:

Question:

snip More sleep will help. I thank you so much for caring, and wish you a beautiful day.

Thank you ) You certainly sound more cheerful now – I’m glad you found a doctor you can get along with.  Good luck for tomorrow; I hope you do make it out to the shops. — —  Whiskers

Response:

Sorry. New to this group. Haven’t read the FAQ yet ( Too desperately scared and exhausted. Hello and welcome to ASD ) I’m a Brit, but there are several Americans here too – I hope you feel at home.

 { Courtseys and thanks you most humbly ) } I haven’t read the full FAQ yet either – too big!  (I’ve only been here a year and a bit)  There is a much shorter version here, and other good stuff too <http://www.meowkitty.net/asd/

  THANK YOU! (Didn’t mean to scream ) How did you get on with the doctor this time?

    Oooh, thanks for asking! Had my 1st night’s sleep (6-7 hours!!!) in several days, no nightmares until towards the AM, and less scarey!     Nice, *older* doc; boss of doc who caused the pain. Immediately prescribed Elavil, the only anti-depressant that helps me function. My husband helped me describe symptoms & history, as I was still in major panic attack mode. ) He was an angel, as was the Dr., as are you )     Was given something to help me sleep,too. Feeling 30% better, at least. Can’t get rid of the feeling depression won’t relax as much as it can until I get home again (US) …..but working on attitude restructure. Praying to be able to go out & raid charity shops for strange clothes tomorrow ) Don’t know if *out* is possible yet; maybe with another night’s sleep. {prays to Someone} More sleep will help. I thank you so much for caring, and wish you a beautiful day. SC

Response:

Sorry. New to this group. Haven’t read the FAQ yet ( Too desperately scared and exhausted.

Hello and welcome to ASD ) I’m a Brit, but there are several Americans here too – I hope you feel at home. I haven’t read the full FAQ yet either – too big!  (I’ve only been here a year and a bit)  There is a much shorter version here, and other good stuff too <http://www.meowkitty.net/asd/ How did you get on with the doctor this time? — —  Whiskers

Response:

I’m sorry about your plight. It must be very difficult to adjust to living in a new country when you start out depressed.

   Depression was under control when I arrived here, because of Elavil and and antihistamine combo thaT worked for me. . In fact, I was rather euphoric to be coming to a new country to be with my soul mate. Same year, I was divorced after 14 years of the *wrong* marriage to a wonderful person. Many other changes. I had idealized England for so many years. I took myself off my medications, a very stupid thing, thinking I no longer needed them, that maybe my depression had been situational. Hopeful thinking, and not the most rational, as I’d been medicated for depression (hospitalized twice) throughout past 20  years. But, I thought, "New Life…."      But changes: working 50+ hours per week to no work here due to 8 month wait for a visa, which finally arrived a couple of weeks ago & now I can’t work. Never much of a housewife, and that’s basically my job here,although husband quite understanding. Accustomed to lots of interaction with diverse socio-economic-cultural community. *Zero* interaction here, due to lack of transportation & no $ /

Question:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

Response:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

geno, big pupils is a normal side effect. no worries ) there’s not much you can do about it. ~*~nwysca~*~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

Question:

commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)

ROTFL!  What a load of BS … —   -john

Response:

Recent studies have shown SJW to be equally as effective as Zoloft (sertraline) and Prozac (fluoxetine) in mild to moderate depression. It also seems to have a better side-effect profile. See the references below: – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Equivalence of St John’s wort extract (Ze 117) and fluoxetine: a randomized, controlled study in mild-moderate depression. Schrader E Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2000 Mar;15(2):61-8 Treatment with St John’s wort extract tablets (hypericum Ze 117) and the commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine was compared in patients with mild-moderate depression with entry Hamilton Depression Scale (HAM-D) (21-item) in the range 16-24, in a randomized, double-blind, parallel group comparison in 240 subjects; fluoxetine: 114 (48%), hypericum: 126 (52%). After 6 weeks’ treatment, mean HAM-D at endpoint decreased to 11.54 on hypericum and to 12.20 on fluoxetine (P < 0.09), while mean Clinical Global Impression (CGI) item I (severity) was significantly (P < 0.03) superior on hypericum, as was the responder rate (P = 0.005). Hypericum safety was substantially superior to fluoxetine, with the incidence of adverse events being 23% on fluoxetine and 8% on hypericum. The commonest events on fluoxetine were agitation (8%), GI disturbances (6%), retching (4%), dizziness (4%), tiredness, anxiety/nervousness and erectile dysfunction (3% each), while on hypericum only GI disturbances (5%) had an incidence greater than 2%. We concluded that hypericum and fluoxetine are equipotent with respect to all main parameters used to investigate antidepressants in this population. Although hypericum may be superior in improving the responder rate, the main difference between the two treatments is safety. Hypericum was superior to fluoxetine in overall incidence of side-effects, number of patients with side-effects and the type of side-effect reported. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "Comparison of an extract of hypericum (LI 160) and sertraline in the treatment of depression: a double-blind, randomized pilot study." Brenner R, Azbel V, Madhusoodanan S, Pawlowska M Clin Ther 2000 Apr;22(4):411-9 BACKGROUND: Hypericum (St. John’s wort) has been shown to be as efficacious and well tolerated as standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression but has not been compared with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). OBJECTIVE: This study compared hypericum and the SSRI sertraline in the treatment of depression. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized study conducted in a community hospital, 30 male and female outpatients (19 women, 11 men; mean age, 45.5 years) with mild to moderate depression received 600 mg/d of a standardized extract of hypericum (LI 160) or 50 mg/d sertraline for I week, followed by hypericum 900 mg/d or sertraline 75 mg/d for 6 weeks. RESULTS: The severity of symptoms, as assessed by scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Clinical Global Impression scale, was significantly reduced in both treatment groups (P < 0.01). Clinical response (defined as a or =50% reduction in HAM-D scores) was noted in 47% of patients receiving hypericum and 40% of those receiving sertraline. The difference was not statistically significant. Both agents were well tolerated. A post hoc power analysis indicated that failure to reach statistical significance between treatments resulted primarily from an absence of clinical differences rather than the small sample size. CONCLUSION: The hypericum extract was at least as effective as sertraline in the treatment of mild to moderate depression in a small group of outpatients.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

com for the reply address.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety.

Here is some info. I found on St. John’s Wort and OCD: "Gridrunner: Have you heard of some success using St. John’s Wort or 5-htp to lessen OCD? Dr. Jenike: Yes, there are a few cases where St. John’s Wort has helped OCD. In Germany, there are dozens of studies using SJW for mild to moderate depression, but its use for treating OCD is relatively new. I have tried it in quite a few patients, with not much success. But then again, most of the patients I see now, are on the more severe end of the spectrum." – http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/OCD/site/transcripts/obsession s_ocd.htm See also: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/stjohnocd.htm

Response:

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression?

Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

Response:

Dear R.P.,      I have used Kava for anxiety and it does help though if your anxiety is high it may take a few days for it to really catch up with you.  To be on it is to be mellow but alert at the same time so I think it would help with OCD.                    Rusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

I had a lot of luck with Kava Kava for anxiety, but it brought back eczema that had lain dormant for over 6 years (and which I have yet to get rid of). Take care if you have any dermatological problems.

Response:

My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

In article <   "Bill & Ida Kern" < My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? The Wort (like LSD; magic mushrooms; kava-kava) open-up the psyche for deeper investigation… rather than offer a cure-all. Later Gerrit

Response:

Question:

On or about Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:19:41 GMT, "MS" <marshmall…@yahoo.com

did apparently write: commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)

ROTFL!  What a load of BS … —   -john

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

R.P. <addr…@reply-to.is.accurate

wrote in message

news:9325bq$640$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net…

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

I had a lot of luck with Kava Kava for anxiety, but it brought back eczema that had lain dormant for over 6 years (and which I have yet to get rid of). Take care if you have any dermatological problems.

Response:

My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida R.P. <addr…@reply-to.is.accurate

wrote in message

news:9325bq$640$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

In article < 933137$vs…@slb6.atl.mindspring.net

,

  "Bill & Ida Kern" < clooney…@mindspring.com

wrote: My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? The Wort (like LSD; magic mushrooms; kava-kava) open-up the psyche for deeper investigation… rather than offer a cure-all. Later Gerrit Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:44:03 GMT, Gerrit Deppe <gerrit_de…@my-deja.com

wrote:

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression?

Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? — The above from: address is spamblocked. Use wherrera (at) lynxview (dot) com for the reply address.

Response:

Dear R.P.,      I have used Kava for anxiety and it does help though if your anxiety is high it may take a few days for it to really catch up with you.  To be on it is to be mellow but alert at the same time so I think it would help with OCD.                    Rusty "R.P." <addr…@reply-to.is.accurate

wrote in message

news:9325bq$640$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

"R.P." <addr…@reply-to.is.accurate

wrote in message

news:9325bq$640$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net…

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety.

Here is some info. I found on St. John’s Wort and OCD: "Gridrunner: Have you heard of some success using St. John’s Wort or 5-htp to lessen OCD? Dr. Jenike: Yes, there are a few cases where St. John’s Wort has helped OCD. In Germany, there are dozens of studies using SJW for mild to moderate depression, but its use for treating OCD is relatively new. I have tried it in quite a few patients, with not much success. But then again, most of the patients I see now, are on the more severe end of the spectrum." – http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/OCD/site/transcripts/obsession s_ocd.htm See also: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/stjohnocd.htm

Response:

Recent studies have shown SJW to be equally as effective as Zoloft (sertraline) and Prozac (fluoxetine) in mild to moderate depression. It also seems to have a better side-effect profile. See the references below: – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Equivalence of St John’s wort extract (Ze 117) and fluoxetine: a randomized, controlled study in mild-moderate depression. Schrader E Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2000 Mar;15(2):61-8 Treatment with St John’s wort extract tablets (hypericum Ze 117) and the commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine was compared in patients with mild-moderate depression with entry Hamilton Depression Scale (HAM-D) (21-item) in the range 16-24, in a randomized, double-blind, parallel group comparison in 240 subjects; fluoxetine: 114 (48%), hypericum: 126 (52%). After 6 weeks’ treatment, mean HAM-D at endpoint decreased to 11.54 on hypericum and to 12.20 on fluoxetine (P < 0.09), while mean Clinical Global Impression (CGI) item I (severity) was significantly (P < 0.03) superior on hypericum, as was the responder rate (P = 0.005). Hypericum safety was substantially superior to fluoxetine, with the incidence of adverse events being 23% on fluoxetine and 8% on hypericum. The commonest events on fluoxetine were agitation (8%), GI disturbances (6%), retching (4%), dizziness (4%), tiredness, anxiety/nervousness and erectile dysfunction (3% each), while on hypericum only GI disturbances (5%) had an incidence greater than 2%. We concluded that hypericum and fluoxetine are equipotent with respect to all main parameters used to investigate antidepressants in this population. Although hypericum may be superior in improving the responder rate, the main difference between the two treatments is safety. Hypericum was superior to fluoxetine in overall incidence of side-effects, number of patients with side-effects and the type of side-effect reported. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "Comparison of an extract of hypericum (LI 160) and sertraline in the treatment of depression: a double-blind, randomized pilot study." Brenner R, Azbel V, Madhusoodanan S, Pawlowska M Clin Ther 2000 Apr;22(4):411-9 BACKGROUND: Hypericum (St. John’s wort) has been shown to be as efficacious and well tolerated as standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression but has not been compared with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). OBJECTIVE: This study compared hypericum and the SSRI sertraline in the treatment of depression. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized study conducted in a community hospital, 30 male and female outpatients (19 women, 11 men; mean age, 45.5 years) with mild to moderate depression received 600 mg/d of a standardized extract of hypericum (LI 160) or 50 mg/d sertraline for I week, followed by hypericum 900 mg/d or sertraline 75 mg/d for 6 weeks. RESULTS: The severity of symptoms, as assessed by scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Clinical Global Impression scale, was significantly reduced in both treatment groups (P < 0.01). Clinical response (defined as a

or =50%

reduction in HAM-D scores) was noted in 47% of patients receiving hypericum and 40% of those receiving sertraline. The difference was not statistically significant. Both agents were well tolerated. A post hoc power analysis indicated that failure to reach statistical significance between treatments resulted primarily from an absence of clinical differences rather than the small sample size. CONCLUSION: The hypericum extract was at least as effective as sertraline in the treatment of mild to moderate depression in a small group of outpatients. William Herrera <posting.acco…@lynxview.com

wrote in message

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On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:44:03 GMT, Gerrit Deppe <gerrit_de…@my-deja.com wrote: The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better

yet?

— The above from: address is spamblocked. Use wherrera (at) lynxview (dot)

com for the reply address.

Response:

Question:

Thinking of you, Sandra, & hope your weekend is fine & dandy! My ex was always turned on by the thought of a woman squatting… Aware1 — Toto… I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.

L-O-L!!!! That’s the reason I was a little leery of posting that! Thanks, Aware. I think the rest of the weekend will go well. Things always seem to go better after a night out with TJOML…..Everyone needs to find one magician in their life, and keep him/her sacred…. Sandra

Response:

Thinking of you, Sandra, & hope your weekend is fine & dandy! My ex was always turned on by the thought of a woman squatting… Aware1 — Toto… I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.

Response:

The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Hey Sandra. Glad you had a good time! I had a great time going out with my friends the other night. Unfortunately though, water was NOT my drug of choice. Oh well…

Well…… last night I had to do the beer thang meself. Otherwise TJOML would drink the whole pitcher ! Take care and I’ll keep you updated on the implant surgery for the tremor. I’m meeting the docs in a couple of weeks to discuss the matter. Love, Trev

I didn’t know it was an implant. I thought the surgery cut a synaptic connection, as in the surgery for Parkinson’s… In any case, good luck with it. Someday, maybe I’ll get fed up with being a human vibrator and have it done myself….. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Trevorskah THIS IS NOT A TEST ICQ#35428694 The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Hey Sandra. Glad you had a good time! I had a great time going out with my friends the other night. Unfortunately though, water was NOT my drug of choice. Oh well… Take care and I’ll keep you updated on the implant surgery for the tremor. I’m meeting the docs in a couple of weeks to discuss the matter. Love, Trev — Trevorskah THIS IS NOT A TEST ICQ#35428694

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Question:

Jeff writes  (lots snipped): "I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something." When I was in the hospital the first time (1983?) the first thing they did was give me  a blood test, which was supposed to show whether I was depressed or not.  All I could think, until the results came back, was "What if I’m _not_ depressed!  What if they won’t try to help me!  THEN what am I supposed to do?"  I smile at this, now, but I was so miserable then, and I was so tired of trying to figure it out by myself.   "See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight." I didn’t take meds for about 11 years, after that first hospitalization. I did stay with my shrink for 3 years.  I fought all that time.  Fighting wore me out, and I finally gave in and tried Zoloft.  It was a big help, that first time around, but I stopped taking it and life almost immediately threw me a series of curve balls that I couldn’t hit back. Now I’m taking it again (31 days in, now) and I’m noticing this time how it helps me to fight, but without allowing me to stop.  I still have to use all of the resources I learned in therapy to keep going.  And life is still hard.  But it is a little easier with Zoloft than without.  I highly recommend it.   "And what about side effects?" Zoloft has never made me sleepy.  It seems to make me wake up faster, in fact.  Sometimes I get sorta edgy, but I’m not sure if that’s me or the med.  The most noticable side effect I’ve had is occasional diarhea, but I’d trade chronic depression for that anyday. "The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world. (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself." Here is something you wrote to me when I first started posting here.  It might bear re-reading: "Right now I’m coming to terms with my depression. Instead of being one of the walking wounded, I’m trying to get better….To tell you the truth, I’m not sure if anyone wants to read what I say. I’m not sure if they’ll respond. But I’m going to do it anyway. Because I want to try to help myself." Since you wrote that, I have watched you go through your first therapy session, publish an article (which, BTW, I really enjoyed), and now you’re going on meds.  I am very, very proud of you.  You really ARE doing everything you can to help yourself, and I feel confident that you will win this fight.  Keep it up, and keep us posted. My one real piece of advice about Zoloft is to remember that it may seem to do _nothing_ for several weeks.  Hang in there during that time, even if you get sad or frustrated.   Cheering for Jeffrey, marijo

Response:

Jeff said: I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said. See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move.  That I’m giving up the fight.

Naturally you need to do what seems right to you, so this is not an attempt to "talk you into something", but just some insight from someone who "has been there".  OK?  (Not twisting your arm, and everyone is different, so your mileage may vary.) Five months ago I was pretty much a basket case.  I had been waging my own fight against depression, and I was losing the fight _big time_.  Wasn’t functioning well at work or at home, losing weight, couldn’t sleep, and just a wreck. I finally decided that this battle was not a "do it yourself" project, and went to see my GP.  He diagnosed depression, gave me a prescription for Zoloft, and referred me to a psychologist. Within a couple of weeks it was clear I was winning the battle I had been trying to fight for years (I am in my late 50’s) with no success. I was again functional, although maybe still a bit "fragile", and in a few more weeks it really was hard to remember how bad I felt for years.  Now, 5 months later, I no longer visit the therp and am easing down on my Zoloft.  I can only kick myself for waiting so long! It’s not a "miracle" cure….  just taking the pill will not work by itself, but it gave me that extra help that I needed.  I also used meditation, a lot of physical exercise, and the support of my family.  Also, the folks here at ASD were a big help, even if they didn’t know it since I have never posted here before, just lurked. Those areall tools I will continue to use, and hopefully I can go from here without medication, but I will not hesitate to go back to Zoloft if it seems I am "losing it". And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different)

In my case the side effects were minimal.  Didn’t make me sleepy, but did have an effect on my sex life.  No loss of desire or "ability" or enjoyment, but it just "takes longer". (At my age, everything takes longer! <grin) Are the side effects really that bad?

Not in my case. Does it matter if it beats back the depression?

Most of the side effects I’ve heard of would be much less painful than the depression. Just a final thought.  The meds do not work "overnight".  In my case it took a couple of weeks, and I’ve heard that it can take even longer before you really notice a dramatic change, although just  "finally doing something about it" will probably give you a better attitude. Hang in there! "I used to wish the universe were fair.  Then one day it hit me:  What if the universe were fair?  Then all the awful things that  happen to us in life, would happen because we deserved  them.  So now I take great pleasure in the general hostility  and unfairness of things." — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Ok, so I finally got my Phych. appointment. We talked for a while and she ultimately reccomended that I give meds a shot. My therp also reccomends. She wants to go with Zoloft. She thinks that it has the least interactions and she’s had the most success with it. So she gave me the prescription.

When I was seeing a psych, that was what my scrip was; no side effects for me, wonderful mental clarity- I finally had a glimpse of what I believe a normally functional brain was like- for me it was like living in a parallel universe.  I know you’ve been hanging out here long enough to appreciate ‘YMMV’ if you’ve read many posts about ADs. Its entirely possibly Zoloft may do nothing for you, or you might have any one or several side effects, or a different AD might finally turn out to be effective for you, or none- but ya gotta start somewhere.  I know that after some recent experience with St. John’s wort, I’d go back to Zoloft in a flash if I could afford it.    I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous.

Yup- I was nervous too, didn’t like the idea of taking something that was going to mess with my brain chemistry- but when I gave myself a chance to consider the alternative, which was sinking back into a suicidal place, unable to respond to talk therapy, it wasn’t really a hard choice for me.                Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said.

Stop, stop- you’re making me grin & I’m s’posed to be depressed! Well, if you’re tired, try taking a nap- maybe you’ve tried that?  ;-) ; if you’re not really depressed (chemically), Zoloft most likely won’t have any effect on your mental state (unless it happens to be ineffective for you).  Unlikely that meditating would do any harm- for me it is calming, good for racing thoughts, confusion- but I’ve not noticed its made much of a dent in my depression.                                                                                                           See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight.

I wonder about this with myself too.  But if you stay in therapy, commit yourself to keep working- & it seems that your therp should track how you’re doing.  I have noticed that some ppl experience an emotional "flatness"/ difficulty in accessing their feelings that could be a hindrance.  Or the meds could work great for you, so you just maintain on the meds & decide to loaf in or quit therapy- been there- eventually it caught up to me again.  I just think you have to keep those possibilities in mind & consult w/ your therp. And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different) Accckkkkkkk!    The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world.

Exactly- that was my experience with meds and therapy                     (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself. Are the side effects really that bad? Does it matter if it beats back the depression?

Keep in mind when you read posts about side effects here or in Dejanews that ppl who experience the downside are much more motivated to write about that experience than those who have  a relatively easy experience (I’ve never written a post "WOW! Zoloft’s free of side effects!")  IOW, the sample is hopelessly skewed-  not to say that any one persons experience isn’t valid _for them_- or any 5 ppls experience. I think that as with so much in life- you just have to experience it- theory and other ppl’s words are no match for your doing it.  Chances are the right med (not necessarily Zoloft) is going to be a help.  If it doesn’t help, yeah, it could be disappointing.  Its a risk, but no way a foolish one.  Hope it works for you  :-) Take care,             FanMan You shall be free indeed when your days   are not without a care nor your nights without a want and a grief, But rather when these things girdle your life and yet you rise above them naked and unbound.  -K. Gibran

Response:

Ok, so I finally got my Phych. appointment. We talked for a while and she ultimately reccomended that I give meds a shot. My therp also reccomends. She wants to go with Zoloft. She thinks that it has the least interactions and she’s had the most success with it. So she gave me the prescription.         I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said. See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight. And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different) Accckkkkkkk!         The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world. (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself. Are the side effects really that bad? Does it matter if it beats back the depression? I’d really like to here from some of you on this. You’ve been there. I’m going. And I’m scared.                         Thanks,                                         Jeff (who will be checking e-mail & asd in like                                       4 minutes for responses)                                         (and who probably expects too much) "I don’t know where I’m going, but I’m on my way"-carl sandberg

Response:

Question:

Cyndie  I’ve had PAs that last about a second and can leave me shattered for hours afterwards. The last time it happened it was a sudden escalation of fear caused by rapid thought connections. Something made me think of death and life. How this is the life bit, and the other was the death bit. The result – sudden terror and then nothing except – what the fuck was that? I have no idea why I became so frightened. It happened once when looking in the mirror. All of a sudden I couldn’t decide which was me – the looker or the reflection. They sound a bit like bad trips or temporal lobe seizures rather than PAs. On the other hand I’ve had PAs that last for days, almost seemlessly. Fred

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Hi Cyndie: Those PA flashes could very well mean that the Prozac is starting to take effect.  It somehow seems to cut them off before they get going.  Just a guess though, based on my own experience. Also, again just a thought, I would have thought that the rate you’re reducing the Xanax is a little too fast and too soon.  Just my own personal experience and what I’ve read talking here……but usually you stay on your regular doseage of Xanax for the first week or so at least and then, very slowly and minimally, taper down over a period of months.  You might want to check this out with your doctor. Take care. Mally  

Response:

<snipped I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.

Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago. When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a  light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Dear Cyndie, Although I’m sorry that you’re having this problem with sleeping, I have to tell you that I am relieved to know that you share this problem with me.  I having had these sorts of images while trying to get to sleep all of my life.  It’s one of the reasons I know that I’ve been having panic attacks for so long.  I think the images are just a way for my mind to cope with the nocturnal PA’s.  When you wake up scared to death, your mind might be inserting a "reason" for your fears.  I’ve often tried to describe these images as little mini-dreams because they’re not hallucinations, although I’m not sure if I’m entirely asleep when it happens.  Anyway, these are just a few theories I have about them.  When you describe waking "with a start," you might actually be describing a panic attack.  My nocturnal PA’s are much different from my daytime PA’s.  It’s something I’ve realized recently. The good news is that when I was on Zoloft (similar to Prozac) these images went away.  In fact, although insomnia is a possible side-effect of Zoloft, my horrible insomnia went away.  I think my insomnia is caused by these nocturnal attacks as well as depression, and the Zoloft helped with both.  And, I wasn’t using Xanax or any other benzodiazepine at the time.  It DID take a few weeks, though: about 6 weeks after I built up to the full dosage for me. Because of that length of time, you might want to consider tapering off the Xanax more slowly.  I realize that this is up to you and your doctor, but going off a benzodiazepine too quickly can be uncomfortable. It does NOT mean that you are addicted.  In his book "Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View," William D. Kernodle states that everyone will have a different experience when going off a benzodiazepine and that you should go as SLOWLY as you need to.  By the way, I highly recommend this book (1995 edition), if you want some sensible, professional answers to your questions about anxiety medications.  I have been fearful of medication in the past, and this book has explained a lot to me. You’re not alone in these particular experiences, Cyndie, and I want to thank you so much for letting me know that I’m not alone.   Take care, Cathleen P.S.: The reason I stopped the Zoloft had nothing to do with its effectiveness but rather with my financial situation at that time (and my ignorance–and my psychiatrist’s–of financial aid for these sorts of things).

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: This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I : would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on : a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It : was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  … Wow, that is wierd. The fastest PA I’ve ever had lasted 5 minutes. But then, 5 min is quick compared to the 45 min endurance terror PAs. Perhaps its a good sign?                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Cyndie, Happens to me all the time…like 10-20 times a day.  They last 1-2 sec’s and don’t really bother me at all…in fact i kind of laugh at them.   -Scott

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This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

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hey–this is my first visit to this newsgroup or any other.  It’s a fairly exciting moment for me, I suppose. I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder about four years ago, during my sophomore year of college.  I was 20 years old and panic consumed my life.  I experimented with both xanax and zoloft in different dosages.  didn’t care for the old drug therapy thing.  I wasn’t sure who I was anymore.  I decided on behavior therapy and some alternative healing methods, which have worked pretty well for me.  Four years later my friends lovingly refer to me as a "new age freak" and I am–for the most part–panic free.  I now recognize approaching attacks before they are unmanageable, and I have my own ways of combating them.         The problem is that many individuals in their early twenties have their first experiences with anxiety and don’t understand what it is that is happening to them.  Maybe they’re away from home for the first time and are afraid to talk to anyone.  When I had my first attack I thought I was losing my mind.  When I finally went to student health services, they tried to tell me that I was just under stress, or "was it that time of the month?" No lie.         Now I am a graduate student at Arizona State University.  I’m working on an article for the campus paper dealing with anxiety disorder and how it particularly effects the lives of college students.  If anyone out there would care to share with me their experiences with anxiety or panic disorder–either your first experience, or an experience you had with a university health service or other doctor–I would love to use you as a source.  We aren’t alone.  It’s important for those who may be afraid and feeling isolated to understand that there is support and help out there in that vicious cosmos–don’t you think?  I need your input–until a year ago I thought maybe I was the only person on the face of the planet that was so screwy! also write to me: 2354 W. University Drive  Apt. 2211                   Mesa, AZ   85201.                                         Thanks a whole bunch–                                         (hope on!)    Teri L.

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hey–this is my first visit to this newsgroup or any other.  It’s a fairly exciting moment for me, I suppose. I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder about four years ago, during my sophomore year of college.  I was 20 years old and panic consumed my life.  I experimented with both xanax and zoloft in different dosages.  didn’t care for the old drug therapy thing.  I wasn’t sure who I was anymore.  I decided on behavior therapy and some alternative healing methods, which have worked pretty well for me…

SNIP, SNIP also write to me: 2354 W. University Drive  Apt. 2211              Mesa, AZ   85201.                                    Thanks a whole bunch–                                    (hope on!)    Teri L.

Teri,  I was wondering what behavior therapy and alternative healing methods did you try.  I am currently taking medication (zoloft) and see a counselor once in a while.  I was considering taking some behavior therapy or other methods to help cope with daily stress. Carter. Carter T. Fields Northwestern University

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Teri, Great article. I will be e-mailing you soon about my experiences. And no, your not crazy! I really believe I became a

counselor because of my disorder. Actually my disorder is the best thing that ever happened to me.      Counselor

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