Question:

I hadn’t thought of iron levels being low, but I’ll suggest that he have those checked out next doc visit.  DH is 64, and as we age, not only do our appetites decrease, but also  our absorption of nutrients. Rose – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But usually when I notice i’m bruising more, i make sure to have my iron level checked, because that is also a common problem that has the same results; probably more often in young women than men but.. who knows. my two cents. K

Response:

i was concerned about this too. i’ve been taking flovent for a few years (before that, aerobid, azmacort, etc).. i bruise very easily, i’m a big fan of arnica too. I actually ran into someone at a pharmacy who was asking about people who take flovent, and since I was there to pick mine up I spoke up. Turns out she works for glaxo-welcom selling it and hadn’t talked to a lot of people who used it. Anyways I mentioned a few side effects, such as bruising, lower bone-density, etc, that are common with steroids, and basically she said that because they are inhaled corti-costeroids and not quite the same as pill popping ones like prednisone, those kinds of effects should be pretty much negligible. Granted she does work for the company.. My own doctor was able to reduce my Flovent when I went in asking about bruising; i’d had a particularly clumsy week.. But usually when I notice i’m bruising more, i make sure to have my iron level checked, because that is also a common problem that has the same results; probably more often in young women than men but.. who knows. my two cents. K – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. Dh uses Flovent and other inhalers, and they do contain steroids, which does cause thinning of the skin and yes, he does bruise easily.  Seems that he’s bruising more easily lately. The arnica works?  I use it and I’ll see if he will.  Thanks for the suggestion. Rose

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I’ve had trouble with brusing, but i didn’t know that it was related to using flovent.  I’m on 220 one puff twice a day (it was 2 puffs 2x daily, but they are trying to decrease it, so far no probs).  I always thought it was something wrong with me.  wow.  kris

I don’t know why docs don’t mention this to patients since it can be common esp. with FLovent. Just wait until it happens, I guess. Some docs may not even know about Arnica. But they should.

Response:

I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms. Side effects of MDI inhalers can be minimized by using a spacer, such as an Aerochamber. Cuts side effects by factor of 2. Also advisable to rinse, gargle, spit out, after inhaling.

I have used a spacer ever since I started on Flovent – over a year ago. (And rinse and gargle really good.)

Response:

Do you also take at least one aspirin per day?  I have been using Flovent for several years, but not until I was put on an asprin regimen did I get the bruise spots.  It is the apirin that thins the blood. Israel Weber

No, no aspirin. The Flovent thins the –skin.

Response:

What is Arnica, and where do you get it? I am on Flovent and also easily bruised. The least little tap leaves a mark. If I bump into something, I really have some black and blue marks.

I get it at an organic food store. But I would imagine maybe you could get it at some health food stores — or check your local drugfood store. It comes in gel and cream. It DOES work. Takes a few days but the color of the bruise lightens and eventually is gone. I have more on my wrists than anywhere.

Response:

I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms.

Side effects of MDI inhalers can be minimized by using a spacer, such as an Aerochamber. Cuts side effects by factor of 2. Also advisable to rinse, gargle, spit out, after inhaling. You might also try a different steroid, such as the Pulmicort Turbuhaler [my favorite] Ellis

Response:

I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.

Hello, I use Flovent 220 one puff two times daily and I bruise horribly.  I wake up with small round bruises and if I bump into something the resultant bruise is really large and painful.  Gross.  I can’t do without the Flovent, tho. So, guess it’s a trade-off. I wish, wish, wish someone would come up with an inhaled anti-inflammatory or like drug with no side effects like bruising, weight gain and the like. It would be nice to shed the 35 pounds I’ve put on since being diagnosed with asthma and taking all the meds. Patrice

Response:

I’ve had trouble with brusing, but i didn’t know that it was related to using flovent.  I’m on 220 one puff twice a day (it was 2 puffs 2x daily, but they are trying to decrease it, so far no probs).  I always thought it was something wrong with me.  wow.  kris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin. Hello, I use Flovent 220 one puff two times daily and I bruise horribly.  I wake up with small round bruises and if I bump into something the resultant bruise is really large and painful.  Gross.  I can’t do without the Flovent, tho. So, guess it’s a trade-off. I wish, wish, wish someone would come up with an inhaled anti-inflammatory or like drug with no side effects like bruising, weight gain and the like. It would be nice to shed the 35 pounds I’ve put on since being diagnosed with asthma and taking all the meds. Patrice

Response:

The light and dark sides of Arnica….. Light:  http://www.kcweb.com/herb/arnica.htm Dark: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Arnicmo.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is Arnica, and where do you get it? I am on Flovent and also easily bruised. The least little tap leaves a mark. If I bump into something, I really have some black and blue marks. I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms. remove nospam to email

Response:

What is Arnica, and where do you get it? I am on Flovent and also easily bruised. The least little tap leaves a mark. If I bump into something, I really have some black and blue marks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms. remove nospam to email

Response:

I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms. remove nospam to email

Response:

Hi. Dh uses Flovent and other inhalers, and they do contain steroids, which does cause thinning of the skin and yes, he does bruise easily.  Seems that he’s bruising more easily lately. The arnica works?  I use it and I’ll see if he will.  Thanks for the suggestion. Rose

Response:

(gaetz) writes: I use Flovent inhaler – 2-3 puffs twice a day. Does anyone have the bruising who use these inhalers? Supposedly thins the skin. Some spots are spontaneous  —- others – if you bump your arm are really noticeable. Large bruise type spots under the skin.  I have been using Arnica (cream or gel to rub on those spots to make them go away faster). It helps — but I don’t like these spots on my arms.

Do you also take at least one aspirin per day?  I have been using Flovent for several years, but not until I was put on an asprin regimen did I get the bruise spots.  It is the apirin that thins the blood. Israel Weber

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Question:

Has anyone installed an aftermarket loft in a tent?? I have a Mountain Hardware Thru-Hiker, and would like to put a loft in it. Most of my friends have one that was an option on the tent that they purchased. Any advise is appreciated. Bill…

Response:

Has anyone installed an aftermarket loft in a tent?? I have a Mountain Hardware Thru-Hiker, and would like to put a loft in it. Most of my friends have one that was an option on the tent that they purchased. Any advise is appreciated.

Go back to where you purchased the tent in the first place. Chances are there is a specially designed loft for that tent (just as your friends suggested). — Cheers, Paul Weiss Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!" Quote: "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"

Response:

Has anyone installed an aftermarket loft in a tent?? I have a Mountain Hardware Thru-Hiker, and would like to put a loft in it. Most of my friends have one that was an option on the tent that they purchased. Any advise is appreciated. Go back to where you purchased the tent in the first place. Chances are there is a specially designed loft for that tent (just as your friends suggested).

Thanks for the suggestion, but the place I have bought the tent is out of business. I have tried two other outdoor speciality stores that sell the Mountain Hardware brand of tent. They could offer no suggestions.  What I think I need to do is just sew in a couple of loops at the seam and attach a piece of netting, but I was hoping for some advice from someone who has already done such a task.

Response:

suggestions.  What I think I need to do is just sew in a couple of loops at the seam and attach a piece of netting, but I was hoping for some advice from someone who has already done such a task.

If there aren’t any loops inside the tent, then the manufacturer probably has not made a loft for that model.  Places like Campmor which sell lots of bits and pieces have generic lofts – usually a piece of mesh with some edge hemming and tie strings on the 4 corners.  Adding loops yourself should be easy if the seams a bound on the inside of the tent, allowing you to sew through the binding tape without penetrating the tent walls.  With other seams (flat fell and such) I’d be reluctant to attach anything for fear of puckering the fabric.  Tents usually use light fabric that is strongest if tension is uniform at all points and directions. Lofts a conventient, but not enough to be worth messing up the cut of the tent. Paul

Response:

I found one at Galyans that has ties that will reach the four corners of my tent top.  I took some strong cord that I bought at a sewing supply shop and sewed four loops in the seams of my tent and then sealed them well with Campdry and seam sealer just for good measure.  Mine works great; good place to stash glasses, keys, etc., so they don’t get lost! Even though mine is made of mesh, it does cut down on the air circulation somewhat though.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone installed an aftermarket loft in a tent?? I have a Mountain Hardware Thru-Hiker, and would like to put a loft in it. Most of my friends have one that was an option on the tent that they purchased. Any advise is appreciated. Go back to where you purchased the tent in the first place. Chances are there is a specially designed loft for that tent (just as your friends suggested). Thanks for the suggestion, but the place I have bought the tent is out of business. I have tried two other outdoor speciality stores that sell the Mountain Hardware brand of tent. They could offer no suggestions.  What I think I need to do is just sew in a couple of loops at the seam and attach a piece of netting, but I was hoping for some advice from someone who has already done such a task.

Try another outfitter and ask them if they have generic Eureka lofts. They used to make mesh lofts with tie loops at two, three or four points that would fit a whole host of tents of various shapes and sizes. — Cheers, Paul Weiss Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!" Quote: "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"

Response:

Thanks for the suggestion, but the place I have bought the tent is out of business. I have tried two other outdoor speciality stores that sell the Mountain Hardware brand of tent. They could offer no suggestions.  What I think I need to do is just sew in a couple of loops at the seam and attach a piece of netting, but I was hoping for some advice from someone who has already done such a task.

I assume you’ve talked to Mountain Hardwear?  They can be most helpful. http://www.mountainhardwear.com/talkBack.html

Response:

Question:

This past week, my doctor changed my Pulmicort and Oxeze to a trial of Symbicort 200 (200/6 ug 2 puffs, 2X daily, no change in previous dosing), a combined turbuhalor.

What country are you in?  As far as I can tell, Symbicort is not available in the US. — (650) 236-2231 [daytime]        http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ CA voters, send a message: write-in "Richard Riordan" in November 2002.

Response:

I was diagnosed with adult onset asthma a few years ago.  After much trial and error, I seemed to be doing fairly good on Pulmicort 400 mcg (2X daily), Oxeze 12 mcg (2X daily), Singulair, Nasonex (2X daily), Bricanyl as required, and Reactin Extra Strength (1X daily).  The first of the year I started HRT because at just over 40 I’m menopausal having three natural periods in the past two years.  Aside of the asthma and hormone problem, I have developed sinus flare ups and/or infections and am currently on antibiotics once again for a sinus infection.  Along with this problem there has been a definite change in my asthma status.  I am attributing the worsening status to: 1) sinus infection and post nasal drip, 2) horrible ragweed season and 3) extreme external stressors.  Needless to say, I will be seeing a bit more of my doctor the next few weeks  I’ve had little flare ups on and off for the past year but I almost forgot how tired and irritable more severe asthma flare ups can make you!  I am so exhausted! This past week, my doctor changed my Pulmicort and Oxeze to a trial of Symbicort  200 (200/6 ug 2 puffs, 2X daily, no change in previous dosing), a combined turbuhalor.  I must say that the Symbicort turbuhaler is even nicer to use than the Pulmicort and Oxeze turbuhalers.  In terms of inhalations, it hasn’t changed anything for me because I have to take two puffs to get the proper dosing but it still is one less inhaler to cart around.  The mouth piece is more stream lined and there is a numberical counter instead of just a window that eventually shows red when the medication is out.

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Question:

Thanks for the man-hating comments. I’m sure others appreciate it too.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

yer welcome,  and i’m usually so quiet’n demure… it WAS’ah stretch. xoxoxoxox ~t

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high.

My first and last cigarette made me feel high. All benzo’s ever did was ease my anxiety… I WANT my money back ! ! ! They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

Not sure if ARPASH (alt.recovery.panic-anxiety.self-help) is still around but as stated in their FAQ "We do not discuss or compare medications". So this may be the group for a_Friend.

Response:

That may prove to be the case, mama. However, I do have some concern about the amount of prescribing and medical information by non-practitioners. I believe it is against the law in most states and provinces to operate as a physican. And I certainly think it is an ethical issue for professionals to be advising others on the appropriate use of medications in an on-line forum. However, "benzos don’t make you high". ROFL. They are one of the most abused substances that phsycians prescribe for that reason. Nice try, no cigar. De Nile is more than just a river in Egypt, Ms. New Oleans.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall. I hope the behaviour is addressed.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

People here merely offer their opinions and share their experiences re medication. In what country/ies are you referring to about the legality of medical advice?

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor.

#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK ! For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history.

#2, MR. MENZA:  WHO does that?  post an example.. and NOT out’ah context.. but just ta make ya right’n give ya grounds ta participate in’ah litigious arena: EVERYONE ::POPPAHCOUPLAHBLUEZ:: IMMEDIATELY, I PRESCRIBE XANAX BLUES OR BARS FOR ALL OF AMERICA !  I AM NOW THA PRESIDENT OF THA WORLD’N THERE’LL BE’AH XANAX IN EVERY POT ! (this is especially attractive for tha stoners of america.) Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

why you gotta keep on with tha rhetoric… "as i recall" is assumed, we can figger that out.  you just like typin? I hope the behaviour is addressed.

3913 SE 26 Del City, OK  73115 there.. yer dreams came true.. it CAN happen ta you.. (you been wishin’ upon stars?  cuz yer hazin’ muh groove, dude.. GET OFF’AH MUH CLOUD !) hey hey hee hee ! ~tanya

Response:

Oh, Tanya: "#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK !" Of course, there are legal issues. Medical practitioners are governed by the ethics and requirements of their licensing colleges as well as the local laws. I would type more slowly, but I don’t think it would help your comprehension. *winks*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. "immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver? this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

I gotta admit, I had to look up at the room topic, too…..making sure that I wasn’t missing something here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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TROLL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves. amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high. They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view.

i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence.

"immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Ask your Doctor!!!!!!

Response:

I’m on 100mg of Zoloft and take it at night. Sometimes I’ll break it in half since I know the lower the dosage the better. I find that the 100mg gives me more anxiety so that’s usually when I’ll go a few days of 50mg….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head? I was on Zoloft for a number of years up until the beginning of 2003.  I used to take 100mg a day most of the time.  However, sometimes during the winter I would start to feel a little worse, so I would take  1 1/2, I would just break the Zoloft.  Other times, especially late spring/summer I would be feeling pretty well so I would only take 1/2 a day. Ask your doctor if he/she thinks it would be OK to take a lower amount of Zoloft.  How long have you been taking it?  Some SSRI’s can make you feel a little worse for a week or two until as your body adjusts.  An there is the possibility that Zoloft may not be right for you.  For example, I just started taking Paxil CR today.  I won’t be taking it again tomorrow.  I just didn’t feel right.  I had tried Paxil a few years ago and only used it for two day and after today, I now remember why I stopped : ) Don’t hesitate to talk to your doc about it, that is what they are there for. Best, JimD

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering.

Actually I find folks in this group the most med-resistant and med-phobic of them all. Prescription meds are stronger and work much more effectively than lavendar oils and tea leaves. The natural route is for your garden variety anxiety. I tried the natural route (needles, herbs, and therapy) for three months and wasted time and money and got my condition worsened. The naturopaths promise healing and "no side effects," but they failed to deliver and, ironically, referred me to the PDocs. The PDocs don’t make promises about anything being free of side effects. Currently they are delivering far more for these folks and for me.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

For many medication is and may remain necessary. Anxiety disorders are most often biological/genetic as well as psychological (*learned behaviour*). CBT is the first choice therapy and taking meds without CBT is not the best treatment. Philip

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

Question:

Hithere… for anyone who cares to know.  I am doing remarkably well on day 2 at 25% of my regular 50 mg Zoloft dosage.  I will remain at this dosage until after my menses have passed as PMS can be hellish. Happy as a Clam… PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

Response:

I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

I am reevaluating my need for 5-htp at all.  Kava does seem to be working for me.  I actually only need it on days 1-3 (about) after downgrading my Zoloft dose.  After that, I seem to level out naturally, except for the use of sublingual melatonin.  I think that working only 20 hours a week really halps too, though I can’t do this forever. I have forwarded your message to my nutritionist.  I am particularly interested in what she has to say about the peelings.  The brand of kava I use is Gaia Herbs.  I’ve used other supplements they manufacture with positive results. I have heard of the anxiety rebound effect of kava though, as of yet, it’s not happened to me.  It may be because I don’t use it all the time, only while transitioning to a lower dose ssri. My most annoying withdrawal symptoms now is nausea.  It only lasts for a couple of days and it’s mild, but it makes eating difficult.  The other side of that is that I eat less.  Since I gained 30 pounds on Zoloft, I’m not complaining too loudly.  I anticipate it stopping after I come off the ssri completely. I have lost 10 of the 30 pounds in the last 6 weeks.  Every time I downgrade my dose I lose 3 pounds in the first 36 hours!  Woo-Hoo! PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

 Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time.

That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

Thanks for posting the info, Tono.  I just try to collect info on kava whereever it may be!

Response:

LM, Thank you for your information.  I am working with a nutritionist who has an MS.  She has informaed me that the blood levels of 5HTP are a concern only for those very few with serious metabolic issues.  I am quite healthy in that regard.  She assures me that in her years of working with the CDC she participated in clinical studies on the use of 5htp and tryptophan and found that both amino acids are quite safe in healthy individuals.  She has several patients who are taking up to 250 mg of 5htp daily and have for a year or better with no problems at all.  In my opinion, the ssris are a much greater risk for me personally since there are no clinical studies on the effect ssris in ppl taking them over one year.  The side effects of ssris have been devastating for me.  For those with metabolic issues it should not be taken lightly though.  Thank you.  I will keep the group informed on my progress. PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management. I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

Response:

Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.

Well, I’m glad it’s helping.  Just be sure not to over do it.  As far as the diagnosis, I know what you mean.  My Dr. never gave me an actual diagnosis, or I would have 10 or 20 of them!  He only tries to work with all my various symptoms. And like Margrove said, BE CAREFULL! Tono – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  PW What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

Response:

What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.

Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.  PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

Response:

Question:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote in message

news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,

have

a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all

wrong..

If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by

posters

to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

In article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

Janus  <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!  

Its quite common that people with a condition know more about it than the ‘experts’. Face blindness is a good example, I actually know the people involved here. The original face blindness tests involved showing an entire person and/or head. People who experienced face blindness where passing the tests, and posting on discussion boards about the problems with them. Finally a neurology student sees the discussions and not being full of himself and his ‘expertise’ decides they might be right, and sets out to make a valid test. He first proved the old tests invalid by showing that people still passed them even when the faces where removed from the pictures! —       Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness      Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a Temporary Autonomous Zone.   C/C++/Perl Linux/Unix resume: http://www.farviolet.com/~entropy/resume.txt

Response:

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:03:10 -0400, in article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Janus <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Do you have TS? Blurt

Response:

Doctors are just everyday people who can read way too much about stuff that has little bearing on reality. the folk in this form deal with people (read doctors) who deal with Tourettes mostly though some third or fourth-hand form. first-hand, being someone who has the condition. second hand, being someone, like a mother, who deals with the condition. and third-hand, being someone who might writes about these conditions. fourth-hand, may be a G.P, or even perhaps a geneticist. So don’t go wasting all your energy projecting it all into the rebuttal of one minor disagreement you had with what TSNW says. When your intentions are so meaningless, anything you say therein will have little credence to anybody here you are maybe hoping to influence. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:50:09 +0100, "lurker" <spam@nospam

wrote: "Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography: Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. — A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:00:08 GMT, "John Morten Malerbakken" <John.Mor…@malerbakken.com

wrote: Janus, You would be surprised to know the number of people on this group who also have TS themselves. It is easier to focus on th children for many reason, as most of us believe that there is one place that we could be able to make a difference.

I also think they make good distractions. I once said to someone who wanted to put kids in a wedding that i likened it to putting a bowl of swimming fish in a room.

Response:

"Janus" <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:MPG.17b2fb9773c3b29896bb@news.alt.net…

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Then  leave.    Ooops, block sender?  Ok.  Gone now.

Response:

in article MPG.17b31ca568da8276989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 10:24 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net, spock…@bellsouth.net says… in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

And, why the hell not????? I have absolutely no problem giving anyone my 2 cents worth. pfffft…. Paula —

Response:

Janus writes:

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Didn’t used to be…

People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol

The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is being defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

Response:

–  xxxx "MomN82R" <momn…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020801225752.28506.00000848@mb-cs.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus writes: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. Didn’t used to be… People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is

being

defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have

TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

ROFL…..brilliant!!!!!! JANnybravo, uh, uh, I meant jennybravo…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula —

Response:

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net

,

spock…@bellsouth.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula

go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lurker wrote:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering.

Thanks lurker.  I am well aware of Dr. J’s CV (the TS community in New England is not THAT large) and I know a couple of his patients personally.  It’s clear that I should have prefaced my post with a big !!!SARCASM ALERT!!!… Of course physicians must be judicious and cautious in prescribing stimulants (or any other med, for that matter).  Stimulants *can* exacerbate tics in some people, sometimes severely.  No argument there. But if Janus’ position is that *no* physician who is knowledgeable about TS would ever prescribe stimulants to *any* patient with tics or TS and co-morbid ADHD, he/she is flat out wrong.

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.       "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said.                                                                                                                         —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:34:26 -0400, Maryann <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

Your comments have been forwarded Not too sure what you have against Professor Jankovic but if you arer going to cyberstalk him you may as well di it properly Professor of Neurology Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic President, Movement Disorder Society Phone: 1-713-798-7438 (Patient Appointment) Phone: 1-713-798-5998 (Academic) Fax: 1-713-798-6808 email: jose…@bcm.tmc.edu Joseph Jankovic, M.D. ————————————————————————— —– Clinical Interests: Movement disorders including Parkinson’s disease and related neurodegenerative disorders, tremors, dystonia, Tourette’s syndrome, Huntington’s disease, and tardive dyskinesias. Research Interests: Epidemiology, pathophysiology, genetics and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Selected Publications: (out of over 300 original articles and reviews) Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Essential tremor: Treatment options. CNS Drugs. 3:178-191. Demirkiran, M., Jankovic, J. (1996) Paroxysmal dyskinesias. In: Appel, S.H., ed., Current Neurology, vol 16, Mosby Year Book, Chicago, 16:213-251. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Severe motor tics causing cervical myelopathy in Tourette’s syndrome. Mov. Disord. 11:563-566. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Calne, D., Campbell, G., Dubois, B., Duvoisin, R.C., Goetz, C.G., Golbe, L.I., Grafman, J., Growdon, J.H., Hallett, M., Jankovic, J., Quinn, N.P., Tolosa, E., Zee, D.S. (1996) Clinical research criteria for the diagnosis of progressive supranuclear palsy (Steele-Richardson-Olszewski syndrome): Report of the NINDS-SPSP International Workshop. Neurology. 47:1-9. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Surgical treatment of Parkinson’s disease. Am. Fam. Physician. 54:1621-1629. Stanley, R., Protas, E.J., Jankovic, J. (1996) Exercise intervention in Parkinson’s disease: A pilot study. Mov. Disor. 11:748-751. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Sastrj, N., Jankovic, J., Wenning, G., Goetz, C.G., et al. (1996) What are the obstacles for an accurate clinical diagnosis of Pick’s disease? A clinicopathologic study. Neurology. 49:62-69. Krauss, J.K., Akeyson, E.W., Giam, P., Jankovic, J. (1996) Propofol-induced dyskinesias in Parkinson’s disease. Anesth. Analg. 83:420-422. Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Restless legs syndrome: Clinical-etiologic correlates. Neurology. 47:1435-1441. Dichgans, J., M

Question:

    My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff

It’s called a paradoxical reaction, but I’ve never heard of this reaction to so many different medications. BTW, Serzone made me stoned too. It totally deactivates one particular liver enzyme. I’m really glad you’re getting in to see a psychiatrist. He really needs someone with expertise. good luck, Larry

Response:

I’m not a physician, but I used to sell psych meds.  And I study. Paradoxical effects to meds are not surprising.  Several doctors told me that it is impossible to tell how any one person is going to react to drugs before they try them.  For example, in the SSRI class, they often recommend that a patient take a week’s worth (or longer, depending on physician) of one of them, see if they agree with your system, and if not, switch.  There are quite a few: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Paxil, Luvox.  Effexor is an SNRI, so it’s in another class.  Take your doctor’s advice, and if it’s not working for you, find a doctor you are compatible with.  Hope that helps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff — http://www.serv.net/~santa

Yes, but not to anti-psychotics…. only to benzodiazepines. You mention two drugs here of the AP class and I wonder if there is an interaction effect – might look at Dr. Koops interaction chart: http://www.ccgp.org/consumers/body_drkoop.htm Squiggles

Response:

Benzos are very safe meds when it comes to adverse effects and side-effects. Anti-psychotics are exactly the opposite.. dangerous side-effects, also they cause brain damage. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but not to anti-psychotics…. only to benzodiazepines. You mention two drugs here of the AP class and I wonder if there is an interaction effect – might look at Dr. Koops interaction chart: http://www.ccgp.org/consumers/body_drkoop.htm Squiggles

Response:

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the ng.     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.

Perhaps, an MAOI like Parnate would be effective. It is energizing for some people.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.

There are idiosyncratic reactions to meds. IOW,individual responses.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications?

 Perhaps, a consultation with a Psychopharmocologist may be helpful. If there is a teaching or university hospital in your area, call them and request a consulation. At any rate, there are newer mood stabilizers which may be effective for him. Also the MAOIs are also effective for dpression, although there are dietary restricyions involving tyramine containing foods. I can email you further info if you desire. Here is some info on Trileptal: http://bipolar.about.com/health/bipolar/msub7-oxcar.htm Oxcarbazepine – Trileptal Oxcarbazepine, an anticonvulsant related to Carbamazepine (Tegretol), has been in use in Europe in treating manic depression and is now beginning to be used in the United States, though not yet officially approved for such usage by the FDA. Oxcarbazepine/Trileptal General Information A short summary of information currently available regarding this medication and the major warnings associated with its use. Experience with Oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) From the About Bipolar Disorder Forum, community members share their experiences with taking this anticonvulsant drug for treatment of manic-depressive illness. Side Effects From our Side Effects Library, a listing of the registered side effects of Trileptal. DrugFAQs: Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) From PharmInfoNet, a series of questions and answers including special warnings and general precautions, how to take the medication, some side effects information and more. Oxcarbazepine Preliminary monograph from Lexi-Comp, Inc., has some pretty detailed pharmacological information, including implications for pregnancy/breast-feeding, kidney patients, interactions with other medications, and other important material. A Treatment for Epilepsy This page combines oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) and carbamazepine (Tegretol), but notes two side effects that are less common with Trileptal. Has a side effects chart and answers to 18 frequently asked questions. From U.K.’s Norfolk Mental Health Care. Trileptal: Another New Choice for Partial Onset Epilepsy This summary from PharmInfo Net includes clinical study results and a brief look at how the medication is thought to operate to control seizures. Trileptal Approved By FDA Reporting on the U.S. FDA’s approval of Trileptal for the treatment of partial epileptic seizures as monotherapy in adults or adjunctive therapy (used in combination with other anti-epileptic drugs) in adults and children as young as four years old. Drug Name: Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) Tablets http://www.centerwatch.com/drugs/dru599.htm The following information is obtained from various newswires, published medical journal articles, and medical conference presentations. Company: Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation Approval Status: Approved January 2000 Treatment for: Adjunctive & monotherapy in adults; adjunctive therapy for children ages 4-16 with partial epileptic seizures General Information Trileptal, an anticonvulsant or antiepileptic drug (AED), was approved for use as an adjunctive and monotherapy for the treatment of partial seizures in adults with epilepsy and for the adjunctive treatment of partial seizures in children, ages 4-16, with epilepsy. It is the first AED to be approved as a monotherapy in several years. 2.3 million Americans have been diagnosed with epilepsy. This year, 181,000 more Americans (children and adults) will develop epilepsy and seizures. Clinical Results Recent trials include 6 multi-center randomized double blind controlled trials that were conducted to determine the effectiveness of the drug. 4 of the studies investigated the drug as a monotherapy. Participants in these trials ranged from 8 to 66 years old. Two of the studies tested the drug as an adjunctive therapy. In studies in which the drug was compared to a placebo, patients given the drug lasted significantly longer without having certain seizures than did those patients not taking the drug. Furthermore, a higher dosage of the drug yielded a significantly longer period before the patient demonstrated specific seizure symptoms. In addition, two trials, one in which patients were ages 15-66 and the other in which patients were ages 3-17, examined Trileptal as an adjunctive therapy. Every patient in these trials was on 1-3 concomitant Anti-Epileptic Drugs. In both studies, dosage was increased over a period of two weeks until the patient reached the assigned dose or experienced an intolerance to the dosage. Results of the pediatric trial indicated that compared to a placebo, patients taking the study medication experienced over 25% greater reduction of frequency of partial seizures. In the adult study, the reduction of frequency of partial seizures for those taking the study drug at the lowest dose was over 18% greater than those taking the placebo, while at the highest dose was over 42% greater than those taking the placebo. Side Effects The most common side effects include, but are not limited to: *       Headache *       Somnolence or fatigue *       Dizziness *       Viral Infection *       Nausea Some patients also exhibited hyponatremia (low serum sodium levels). Most patients who developed this side effect, were asymptomatic. In clinical trials, patients whose treatment was discontinued due to hyponatremia, generally experienced normalization of serum sodium within a few days without additional treatment. Some additional side effects were associated with the central nervous system (CNS). These include: *       Psychomotor slowing *       Difficulty with concentration *       Speech or language problems *       Coordination abnormalities In clinical trials, patients’ discontinuation of therapy due to these CNS side effects was dose related when the drug was used as an adjunctive therapy; higher dosages increased the discontinuation rate. No discontinuation of treatment due to similar side effects was found when the drug was used as a monotherapy. Contraindications: Trileptal should not be used in patients with a known hypersensitivity to oxcarbazepine or to any of its components. Mechanism of Action The pharmacological activity of Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is primarily exerted through the 10-monohydroxy metabolite (MHD) of oxcarbazepine- The precise mechanism by which oxcarbazepine and MHD exert their antiseizure effect is unknown; however in vitro electrophysiological studies indicate that they produce blockade of voltage-sensitive sodium channels, resulting in the stabilization of hyperexcited neural membranes, inhibition of repetitive neuronal firing, and dimunition of propagation of synaptic impulses. These actions are thought to be important in the prevention of seizure spread in the intact brain. In addition, increased potassium conduction and modulation of high-voltage activated calcium channels may contribute to the anticonvulsive effects of the drug. No significant interactions of oxcarbazepine or MHD with brain neurotransmitter or modulator receptor sites have been demonstrated. (from FDA Label) Literature References For more information about epilepsy, visit the official web site of the Epilepsy Foundation, a non-profit volunteer agency devoted to research, education, advocacy, and services in the community for people with epilepsy and their families: www.efa.org or visit Epilepsy-International.com, where you can find out about everything from dates of international conferences about epilepsy to a list of countries where Trileptal is available. Additional Information This is what the Epilepsy Foundation says to do and not to do if you encounter a person having an epileptic seizure: What To Do: *       Look for medical identification. *       Protect from nearby hazards. *       Loosen ties or shirt collars. *       Protect head from injury. *       Turn on side to keep airway clear unless injury exists. *       Reassure as consciousness returns. *       If a single seizure lasted less than 5 minutes, ask if hospital evaluation wanted. *       If there are multiple seizures, or if one seizure lasts longer than 5 minutes, call an ambulance. *       If person is pregnant, injured, or diabetic, call for aid at once. What Not To Do: *       Don’t put any hard implement in the mouth. *       Don’t try to hold tongue. It can’t be swallowed. *       Don’t try to give liquids during or just after seizure, *       Don’t use artificial respiration unless breathing is absent after muscle jerks subside, or unless water has been inhaled. *       Don’t restrain.

Response:

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the ng.     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.

Perhaps, an MAOI like Parnate would be effective. It is energizing for some people.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.

There are idiosyncratic reactions to meds. IOW,individual responses.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications?

 Perhaps, a consultation with a Psychopharmocologist may be helpful. If there is a teaching or university hospital in your area, call them and request a consulation. At any rate, there are newer mood stabilizers which may be effective for him. Here is some info on Trileptal:

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My domestic partner has been put on anti-depressants multiple times. In the cases of Paxil, Prozac and Effexor, they put him to sleep, made him cranky and even more depressed. Serzone made him stoned.     Most recently, he’s been put on lithobid and neurontin. The neurontin made him paranoid, depressed, and it gave him panic attacks and the lithobid is acting sort of like speed on him.     We’re totally at a loss on how to treat this now since we’re almost out of drugs to try. We do have him going to a psychiatrist who is seeing him tomorrow on an emergency basis since he just lost his job due to the neurontin giving him panic attacks.     So, there it is. I myself am taking Prozac and I’m fine on it, so it just baffles me as to what’s happening. Has anybody else had such strange reactions to medications? Jeff It’s called a paradoxical reaction, but I’ve never heard of this reaction to so many different medications. That couldn’t possibly be a true statement…unless you skip most of the posts on this NG…

Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Serzone, lithium, and Neurontin work by different mechanisms. Six drugs, and six paradoxical reactions is quite extraordinary. I always check the literature before I reply to questions such as this, and the only reference to paradoxical reactions comes from "other adverse effects reported during clinical trials". In other words, reported in less than 1% of subjects. There is absolutely nothing on Medline, and only case reports in Google searches. You’re far more likely to experience paradoxical rage on benzodiazepines than you are to experience paradoxical depression on SSRIs, or activation on lithium, according to the literature. Neurontin has a more variable effect than the other meds. Its is the common experience of sufferers of depression to do what is known as cycling through the meds, because of the high rate of reverse repsonse and adverse reactions and intolerable side effects,  and its a lot of what is written about here..

Paradoxical reactions are but one type of adverse effect. the issue here wasn’t adverse effects per se, but one specific type thereof. dont mislead this poster by suggesting this very common experience is

rare… It is rare. your being bipoalr is no excuse for behaving badly…

You’re the one behaving badly. And for the 300th time, I’m not bipolar. I consider myself to be on the bipolar spectrum because I have had induced dysphoric mania, but that is an exclusionary factor for the formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Check the differential diagnosis section at the end of the diagnostic criteria at http://www.mentalhealth.com Reactions to meds is excluded.

Response:

Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Serzone, lithium, and Neurontin work by different mechanisms. Six drugs, and six paradoxical reactions is quite extraordinary.

not necessarly…. i had the same experience…… i tried.. wellbutrin….. serzone….. and a good couple others i cant remember and they all gave me reactions that were immediate and negative…… in my case, i needed a mood stabiliser. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always check the literature before I reply to questions such as this, and the only reference to paradoxical reactions comes from "other adverse effects reported during clinical trials". In other words, reported in less than 1% of subjects. There is absolutely nothing on Medline, and only case reports in Google searches. You’re far more likely to experience paradoxical rage on benzodiazepines than you are to experience paradoxical depression on SSRIs, or activation on lithium, according to the literature. Neurontin has a more variable effect than the other meds. Its is the common experience of sufferers of depression to do what is known as cycling through the meds, because of the high rate of reverse repsonse and adverse reactions and intolerable side effects,  and its a lot of what is written about here.. Paradoxical reactions are but one type of adverse effect. the issue here wasn’t adverse effects per se, but one specific type thereof. dont mislead this poster by suggesting this very common experience is rare… It is rare. your being bipoalr is no excuse for behaving badly… You’re the one behaving badly. And for the 300th time, I’m not bipolar. I consider myself to be on the bipolar spectrum because I have had induced dysphoric mania, but that is an exclusionary factor for the formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Check the differential diagnosis section at the end of the diagnostic criteria at http://www.mentalhealth.com Reactions to meds is excluded.

– on and on and on and on it goes like tears from a star; like tears from a star .. on and on and on it shows just how fragile we are;  how fragile we are… ~~ blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple ~~

Response:

Question:

message : I hadn’t been able to do any of those things for a long time, because : I didn’t have enough motor control. : : A great side effect of going on the high fat Atkins diet was that, : coupled with the effect I had already achieved by drinking about a : gallon of water a day, my neuro muscular symptoms have cleared up : considerably. Try putting on mascara with your hand waving in front of : your eyes, or applying nail polish with a spastic hand. It doesn’t : work too well. : : I have been urged by people to get tested for Parkinson’s and for : Multiple Sclerosis for years because of  the increasing pain and : frustration of these problems. Benign Essential Tremor, which runs : through my family, didn’t seem to be the source for all that I went : through, especially when my legs started deteriorating. A few weeks : ago The Joy of My Life was teasing me and took my cane away from me, : (that I didn’t need all the time, but had had to pull out that one day : because of pain) saying I didn’t need it. I asked him was he going to : take my wheelchair away from me, too, when it came to that, and : thought to myself, was it really going to have to come to that? It was : then I started looking into the Atkins Diet, because I had read : somewhere that research had been done about ketogenic diets : (high fat consumption that send a body into benign ketosis, or fat : burning, state) making a great difference in the symptoms of epileptic : children, and in some with sclerosis or Parkinson’s. I decided to go : on the diet. : : Well, it’s been working. Not only the weight loss (as I’ve mentioned : elsewhere, 30 pounds) but my muscle control is up considerably and the : pain is a lot less (pretty much gone if I make sure I am drinking : enough water as well). I am able to exercise again, lightly, and hope : to go up to moderate exercise this week. I was able to cut my own hair : last week, have been able to apply eye makeup in 20 seconds, instead : of twenty minutes, and gave myself a manicure and pedicure for the : first time in many years tonight. It’s a really good feeling. : : Sometimes I wonder how much muscle tone I can get back into my legs, : but I’m trying not to get impatient about it. There’s a lot of things : to rebuild. Right now, I think it’s just time to go to bed. Goodnight, : all. : : Sandra :  ((((((Sandra)))))) how blessed you must feel! wishing you continued success, your strength of determination is what i need a little of… good night, donna —     the only baggage you can bring        is all that you can’t leave behind

Response:

I hadn’t been able to do any of those things for a long time, because I didn’t have enough motor control. A great side effect of going on the high fat Atkins diet was that, coupled with the effect I had already achieved by drinking about a gallon of water a day, my neuro muscular symptoms have cleared up considerably. Try putting on mascara with your hand waving in front of your eyes, or applying nail polish with a spastic hand. It doesn’t work too well. I have been urged by people to get tested for Parkinson’s and for Multiple Sclerosis for years because of  the increasing pain and frustration of these problems. Benign Essential Tremor, which runs through my family, didn’t seem to be the source for all that I went through, especially when my legs started deteriorating. A few weeks ago The Joy of My Life was teasing me and took my cane away from me, (that I didn’t need all the time, but had had to pull out that one day because of pain) saying I didn’t need it. I asked him was he going to take my wheelchair away from me, too, when it came to that, and thought to myself, was it really going to have to come to that? It was then I started looking into the Atkins Diet, because I had read somewhere that research had been done about ketogenic diets (high fat consumption that send a body into benign ketosis, or fat burning, state) making a great difference in the symptoms of epileptic children, and in some with sclerosis or Parkinson’s. I decided to go on the diet. Well, it’s been working. Not only the weight loss (as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, 30 pounds) but my muscle control is up considerably and the pain is a lot less (pretty much gone if I make sure I am drinking enough water as well). I am able to exercise again, lightly, and hope to go up to moderate exercise this week. I was able to cut my own hair last week, have been able to apply eye makeup in 20 seconds, instead of twenty minutes, and gave myself a manicure and pedicure for the first time in many years tonight. It’s a really good feeling. Sometimes I wonder how much muscle tone I can get back into my legs, but I’m trying not to get impatient about it. There’s a lot of things to rebuild. Right now, I think it’s just time to go to bed. Goodnight, all. Sandra

Response:

Question:

I’ve been off the stuff for about 3 days now..can’t really say I feel that bad…I actually feel BETTER….my body feel so much less sluggish and I want to DO stuff and I don’t feel uneven or unstable by any stretch of the imagination. I just feel good because this is actually turhing out to be an "up" week for me.  Maybe I don’t need the meds…  I dunno….things are on an upward curve for me at eh moment.  I feel great….great great great…..not upity, but just plain old great. i think.

dear spacegurl, i’ve done what you’ve done so many times…hell, i’m not on any mood stabilizers right now (shhh!) actually, i’m going to my doctor to trade my (rash-inducing…but that was just me…) tegretol for what i’m guessing will be neurontin, since i’ve tried most others. my summary of life without meds: short term, i felt fine. long term, i never have really gotten better. i haven’t had any unusual catastrophes, but i’ve just never been able to really "heal." my mood/neuro-issues still interfere with my life. it’s cyclical, so somtimes i think i’ll be fine without… in fact, i stayed off meds for seven years. but i am coming back to try again. i haven’t been able to produce much artwork (except for my website) or hold a job for long, i feel alternately sad and without energy or frightened/agitated, and my boyfriend and i are increasingly socially isolated due to my having a panic attack half of the times we try to go out. note: i also haven’t been able to stick to an exercise schedule of any kind when depressed! this seems pathetic to me, as i used to take ballet, race bikes, etc. so i am urging you to try different meds instead- and on your terms. my first time on lithium, i gained a ton of weight and consequently felt so betrayed by my doctors, who didn’t even warn me…and i’ve also tried depakote. neither worked for me anyway… I do’nt see how any meds that make you gain weight can make you happy.  At least not for me.

i really do agree. as i’ve said before (on this newsgroup,) every med i try is a gamble- it may help, it may not. whereas i *k*n*o*w* that the more weight i gain, the more depressed i’ll get. it’s just common sense to be unwilling to take a drug that makes me depressed via weight gain when i’m taking it to alleviate depression in the first place! call it vanity if you wish, but that’s my philosophy. I know, I need to change my views on this, but hey…I am doing what I need to do.

i know- believe me. but before you leave the mystical world of psychopharmacology, i really wanted to show you this: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ask the Expert – Mood Disorder Meds Weigh In Q. What mood disorder medications are most likely/least likely to cause weight gain? Information on both bipolar and unipolar drug therapy would be appreciated. A. The following is a basic summary of the effects of various mood medications, and their usual effect on weight: Key +++ weight gain very likely, often exceeding 8 lbs ++ weight gain sometimes seen, usually modest (5-6 lbs) + weight gain uncommon (less than 5% of patients) and usually less than 5 lbs. Antidepressants Fluoxetine (Prozac), Sertraline (Zoloft), Paroxetine (Paxil) + Bupropion (Wellbutrin) + Venlafaxine (Effexor) + Tricyclics Elavil, Tofranil, Doxepin and others +++ Mood stabilizers Lithium +++ (average weight gain=9 lbs) Valproate (Depakote) ++ Carbamazepine (Tegretol) + Note: Some elderly patients actually lose weight while taking Prozac. These figures are based on the literature, and my own experience. Patients vary greatly in their responses, however, and there are always patients who gain weight when they weren’t supposed to on a given agent.

i’m admittedly not sure where i got this.. it was a well-established website that i found easily by entering "weight" and "bipolar" into a search engine. spacegurl, i just want to let you know that not all drugs cause fattening. some even encourage loss (wellbutrin has been known to cause a loss of over 5 pounds in about 25% of the people who take it, for example. i wouldn’t really recommend  it as the most effective drug out there, but your results may differ.) i haven’t seen most of your posts leading up to this, but if you’re really quitting meds over the weight issue alone, you still have a range of options you could try (tegretol, neurontin…) love and luck, selene

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Well,  I just thought I’d check in with you guyus and first of all thanks you all sooooooo much for your e-mails and responses on here.  they really did help me.  I know you guys think that I am drilling a hole in my foot doing what i"M doin, but I can’t think of any other way.  I’ve been off the stuff for about 3 days now..can’t really say I feel that bad…I actually feel BETTER….my body feel so much less sluggish and I want to DO stuff and I don’t feel uneven or unstable by any stretch of the imagination. I just feel good because this is actually turhing out to be an "up" week for me.  Maybe I don’t need the meds…  I dunno….things are on an upward curve for me at eh moment.  I feel great….great great great…..not upity, but just plain old great. i think. But the weight thing was just a pisser for me.  I do’nt see how any meds that make you gain weight can make you happy.  At least not for me.  I know, I need to change my views on this, but hey…I am doing what I need to do. I think it is great that people out there are able to get help w/ the medication.  I won’t ever go backk on the stuff….i won’t. never ever ever…yuck. So, just thought I"d let you all know I am doing excellent w/ out the meds! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Question:

Hi, Sandi…. Glad to know I’m not the only cyber junkie here……:))  I spend way too much time on this computer….In a way, it is an escape for me…. I don’t take zoloft, so I can’t offer any comment about the symptoms your were experiencing… But I *do* hope that you are feeling better… Take care……MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, a little LOL I had withdraw from not being able to get on my computer yesterday, My son took the mouse to work with him.  I though it was the end of the world I had to go to the store and buy a mouse so I could get into my support group LOL..(maybe that what cause my aniexty).Hee, Hee Thanks again Sandi

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Hi guys, I need some advice I have in this group for three weeks now and you guys have been all great with your support and I truly thank you. My problem is that I have been feeling good with taking 50mg of zoloft in fact this is the first week that I have been out of the house, driving and have some fun.  The only thing is that yesterday I was having alot of short of breath (it went away later that day).  Last night I started with this weird feeling in the middle of my chest like I ate too much or something, but it felt like I was going to burst.  It was a tightening I guess that how I want to explain it well, anyway it started scaring me I thought I was going to have a heart attack or something.  My husband who I might say is great about all this PA, told me to try to relax, but it was so hard because I was trying to go to sleep and I was really scared.   I gon’t up this morning and I am ok now, does anyone know if they ever had this or is it a side effect from zoloft?  Sorry that this is a long letter.  and Thanks for being there. Also, a little LOL I had withdraw from not being able to get on my computer yesterday, My son took the mouse to work with him.  I though it was the end of the world I had to go to the store and buy a mouse so I could get into my support group LOL..(maybe that what cause my aniexty).Hee, Hee Thanks again Sandi

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